Win more commander games... (Beginner) | Deck Driver MTG
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- Опубліковано 23 вер 2024
- If you've ever felt stuck, or like you didn't know WHY you aren't winning your EDH games, here's how I went on my own journey to learn the game and get better!
Today I share my story of growth in MTG and how I personally view playing EDH and building decks to suit my playstyle!
Thank you so much for watching!
Moxfield:
www.moxfield.c...
Instructions unclear. I would like to win friends in commander. Winning games is momentary enjoyment. Having people to play with routinely who are good sports and not miserable to be around if games aren’t going their way, priceless and lifelong treasures.
I've started tracking my games this year. I played 51 games so far and won 21.57% of them (which is below average in 4 and 3 player games), but more importantly: I had fun in almost all of them.
Could I crank up the powerlevel of my decks? - Absolutely!
Should I play more focused and less daring sometimes? - Probably.
Would I or my playgroup enjoy the game more, if I did all of the above? - I don't know. Probably not. So I keep things, as they are. :)
Edit: Always consider, by increasing your own win percantage, you decrease someone elses.
Ask yourself, if you are realy below average, because in a 4 player game, you shouldn't win more than 25% of the time (In a 3 Player game it's 33,33%).
The real win is the fun you had and friends you made along the way.
Since I started playing magic I’m pretty good in 1v1 or 3 player kitchen table but every time my buddy and I go to our LGS I have never won a game, I think I’m probably 0/20 at least now 🤦♂️ got close twice last time but the guy we were playing with was likely playing cedh or just high level cause no one could touch him lol
Totally agree. As a guide for cEDH deck building, this video might be somewhat relevant, but for everyone else, it just isn't.
The game is about having FUN. Running 15 removal spells, if everyone does that, means no one gets to play. It's just boring.
I'll lose games on purpose sometimes, and the reason is exceedingly simple: I'm there to have fun with friends, and I want those friends to keep wanting to play with me.
Could I stomp them into the ground, by building oppressive decks they can't win against? Sure I could, but I don't want to.
@mastamizclix42 Look, if people want games that go on for hours until everyone is too exhausted to continue and just crash on the couch, then more power to you, but don't expect every play group and / or player at the LGS to have built their deck with the same goals in mind. In 99% of environments, games have to end. It is both cool and normal to have a means for your deck to win a game of Magic even in a "social format." When did playing casual commander start being about getting mad at other players +75% of the time? We need to normalize being gracious in defeat again. It's just a game. I realize people only get so much time to play, but that's a societal failure. Don't take it out on other players. Their card choices aren't the reason why we live to work instead of working to live or why there is a loneliness epidemic. Flipping out on each other over a game only makes those problems worse. Get a grip
@@majinvegeta6364 I kinda feel like you didn't really get what I was trying to say with my comment?
You talk about games having to end... I agree, which is why everyone running removal is boring, because then no one plays their wincon because the board is reset all the time.
Ultimately, you're playing a social game, with other people. Most of the time, with friends, at least in casual EDH. That means your goal is to have fun and play your strategy, win or lose. If you make your deck to stomp on your friends and tell them to "get a grip" every time you beat them, you won't have many friends left.
@mastamizclix42 your position is toxic on multiple levels.
1. A lack of interaction inherently favors certain deck strategies and archetypes. A soft ban as you propose would, therefore, shrink the format and reduce the diversity of gameplay.
2. A lack of robust removal actually increases the chess problem. Where the board state becomes so clogged and complicated that games end in a stalemate.
3. It also increases the likelihood of a Monopoly problem. Where one or two players get a good starting hand, and the rest never get a chance to meaningfully contribute to the outcome of the game.
4. The entitlement of telling people that they should only build decks the way you want them to because if they disobey, then nobody will be their friend. That's the exact same reasoning that abusers use to keep their victims from leaving. It has no place in a "social format" and is infinitely worse than anybody's card choices.
It's players like you that are the problem with casual commander, not counterspells, boardwipes, or even MLD.
We gotta get these boys off of PowerPoint
I wish it was powerpoint. That might actually make it easier hahah
Need to make Excel spreadsheets for style points!
@@abeybaebe2514 We always return to excel...
I feel like the sole reason i win games is because i never give up. you can win games you never thought were winnable. Go into a game not expecting to win but just wanting to show off your deck. as long as my deck does the thing im happy.
this is it. Winning hardly matters, especially if you get in a good number of games.
Your deck doing the thing though? Priceless.
@@Pandaman64 I would rather my deck do the thematic thing and lose than win and have no flavor
@@robertmendez8383Absolutely!
I have several old commanders that I just lovingly tweak, but overall keep their theme. They can compete if it lines up nicely, but the deck just causes shenanigans.
@@Pandaman64 I have a Tyrnn and Silvar human tribal deck. it is always fun to see people start panicking when I pull out the Horn of Gondor or Apothecary White and make 30 humans. it has gained a reputation of being a deck to fear, and the best part is that it has no infinites which frustrates our local cedh player to no end ( he plays Thoricle and food chain/squee in casual)
Seeeeeeee when I make a deck to do a thing and I do that thing my friends are pissed at me cause I’m a goblin who likes to crush others in EDH. Considering I made a pure thief deck that steals EVERYTHING or a mono red land destruction or my personal favorite deck I call Big Frog which is Grolnok and I just get to play my entire library is in graveyard by turn 4 and I’ve won the game (worse case scenario is I slowly mill out my opponents and crush their will to live). Though I only play against my friends so I’m not terrorizing anyone else but I certainly sometimes make my friends hate their lives.
its always nice to see someone's design philosophy. good luck with the channel.🙂
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed the video!
If you truly don't care about winning, Imma let you in on a secret.
youll still have more fun if your deck is built to win, and you play it that way
that doesnt mean optomised or powerful, it means putting a way to end the game in a stax deck, it means attacking when theres an open board. it means not artificially extending games by refusing to finish it.
you can make bad pkays, silly plays, fun plays, but the game will flow better, youll get to play more games, and youll find those games are more enjoyable. the cards will be doing what theyre aimed at, you'll have actual interaction, not just boardwipes. and interaction makes the game more enjoyable, if that wasnt the case youd find the same fun in fishbowling
Very good information for 2 years of playing. I believe this advice is probably some of the best I've seen around in a nice solid and concise video. Good job!
What's kind of wild about this list is how simple it is. The Command Zone and TCC did a list few years back, might have even been almost a decade ago, going over how decks should be constructed. Obviously, most of the time on those videos is just to pad out for ad revenue, but they had stuff broken down to subcategories and by the end you had to keep tabs on 8 different parts of the deck. This video makes the process much simpler. Thank you for the insight.
Ah yes, the 8x8 deckbuilding theory. It works, but just barely, and usually not very consistently.
For sure. One thing about the simplified approach though is that it is less specific. Take his "going from 8 to 16 sacrifice cards" example. Is Shriekmaw a sacrifice tag? It does sac itself. Is that the sacrifice card I want, or do I want something that gets a benefit when I sac it (think Myr Retriever)? Should I play 16 Ashnods Altars? They all sacrifice things. A large part of why Command Zone specifically has more categories is because they are breaking that down a bit more.
Ramp, Draw, Interaction, Boardwipes, Enablers, Enhancers, Standalones... They all overlap. Compare to: main theme, ramp, interaction. Does DeckDriver play 0 Draw spells? Obviously not, he must play some. But it's not on his list. So part of it is just that--this video is less a comprehensive deckbuilding template and more like a concise strategy to focus and iterate on your decks, with a vague template that, if you literally rigidly followed, your deck would probably be bad since you have no draw and your "main strat" cards could be all over the place without refining any subcategories (like sac outlets and targets). Both are are useful though! This video is filling a niche we may not see enough of.
8x8 though yeah idk man that shit don't slap
Not sure how categorizing things into Ramp, Card Draw, Single Target, Board wipe, and Land is broken down into subcategories?
I know they go into the whole idea of like Enhancers, Enablers, etc. and then the quadrant theory of assessing how certain cards function depending on if you're building up, behind, at parity, or ahead, but realistically both of those categories only have to do with cutting cards. The only categories you actually need to worry about are Ramp, Draw, Removal, Wipe, Land. The rest of the stuff only has to come into play if you can't decide between two cards and need to cut one. If you're good at knowing which card to cut this section is honestly entirely irrelevant. Perhaps ignoring this section of their video is why my decks are very swingy in their success rates though lmao. Maybe I need to focus more on the Standalone, Enhancer, Enabler portion lmao.
And then I do like the general "your deck needs 30 of the thing. Elfball? around 30 elves." and then they give exceptions for some deck archetypes that might need more or less of that thing like spellslinger, landfall, and planeswalker.
I haven't seen the TCC one, but the Command Zone is no more complicated than this video, the numbers are just different. CZ just goes into detail on ways you can know whether a card should be cut when getting to the stage of cutting cards. The actual deck stats are pretty simple.
@@xxhellspawnedxx I love 8x8 theory as a baseline. Just a great way to take your 200 cards of possibilities and throw them into 8 clusters so you have something you can shuffle and edit from there. Sure you could pick the perfect 8 ramp pieces. Or you could just pick 8 random ones and let testing push you to change them or add more or less.
16 of a card? You underestimate my bad luck Sir. I can go multiple entire games and not get one.
I recently had a game where the 2 lands in my opening hand were the same lands I had turn 12. 32 lands in the deck. Deck was shuffled and cut twice (one mulligan), 2 lands in play turn 12. That's all I ever got.
When you speak about "How do I want to win", I couldn't agree more. Even if you are a meme, casual player, you need to figure out how to win, how your deck wants to win and how fast.
EDH is a social format, and having fun is important, but a part of you, maybe a little one, wants to have chances to win the game.
To be honest I have diferent types of decks, Decks where I play for the meme and KNOWING that I dont win with it but interacts with the board enough to make it funny and decks made to win in some way.
Sometimes winning isnt everything but make a deck that even if it doesnt win but has a impact on the board
When you realise that having fun is winning is when you and your oponnents always win .
I am planning to build a Gluntch deck where the "strategy" is to help those players who are behind.
I don't plan on winning, I just plan to see someone win.
Oh and maybe build this deck three times, invite someone to the table, buff all thier stuff, and thank them for playing when they absolutely stomps us. LOL
I have a Mogis, God of slaughter deck that is indeed a group slug deck, but has 0 winning conditions, when I play it is with the sole purpose of spreading caos and nothing more, I don't try to win with it.
And the funny thing is, it does indeed have a win 😂
Look, if people want games that go on for hours until everyone is too exhausted to continue and just crash on the couch, then more power to you, but don't expect every play group and / or player at the LGS to have built their deck with the same goals in mind. In 99% of environments, games have to end. It is both cool and normal to have a means for your deck to win a game of Magic even in a "social format." When did playing casual commander start being about getting mad at other players +75% of the time? We need to normalize being gracious in defeat again. It's just a game. I realize people only get so much time to play, but that's a societal failure. Don't take it out on other players. Their card choices aren't the reason why we live to work instead of working to live or why there is a loneliness epidemic. Flipping out on each other over a game only makes those problems worse. Get a grip
32 land is too low mate. Ramp is not supposed to compensate losing a land drop. It is meant to accelerate your gameplan.
💯%
You play casually, it shows
@@rnd41r the video is for beginners. It's in the title
@@rnd41r 1- The title is targeted at beginners and OP is a beginner himself.
2- Most decks are short on lands with a 32 land count. Missing a land drop is damaging.
3- Missing a land drop is bad even in cedh, despite having tons of rocks/ramp, It just so happen that they can finish UP the game with less drops.
Conclusion: 32 lands is ok only on cedh lvl decks with tons of ramp. Not the subject of this vídeo.
@@murilofreire4569my veyran deck runs 27 lands and runs just fine
Card draw wasn't mentioned, but If you want to win in casual. I found that the person who draws the most cards and has the mana to play them would win 90% of the time.
This video was super helpful. It's so much more to EDH than just buying the most expensive or popular cards for a deck. I always felt like if I spent over 300-400 dollars on a deck that it had to win and I was always disappointed. Paying attention to the science of deck building is paramount.
Long story short... 90% of MTG is just card knowledge.
A larger percentage is applying the knowledge
My brother won't play with me simply because I glance at the art and know the card, where he has to stop and read and reread every card.
Card knowledge is real.
@@kaboomeowthat's fair, I've been playing since 95 off and on in descent lengths of time. Seeing all the new cards after a few years of not playing is overwhelming sometimes. Not to mention new abilities.
@@thehydra3518 fr I have no idea what any of the new praetors do, they have a paragraph of text on the front and then flip over into a saga that has 3 more paragraphs of text lmao. It's just too much for one card.
@@dislikebutton9571 just came back after a few years and I'm the same!! I'm not here to play Yu-Gi-Oh! 😂
I respect your style, it's not for me, but I'm happy you get enjoyment from your games
I'm gonna add that there's a difference between sandbagging and blatantly not trying. Don't blow your load too early BUT also don't run a deck that you actively need to hold back to allow others to play. If you have a big board of trampling chonkers, attack with them. If you voltron incredibly fast, start taking out players instead of "feeling bad" that they didn't get to play OR power down your deck.
People won't feel *too* bad if you hold your wincon in your hand unless they somehow reveal it. People *will* feel bad if you know that you won, they know that you won, and they know that you know that you won, but for some arbitrary reason the game is going on for another hour. This is why I will keep at least one precon together unaltered, sure I might need to try harder to figure out the puzzle when playing with newer players (or lower power decks) but at least then I won't risk making people feel like the game isn't worth continuing.
I lose commander games because I play with casual pauper decks and precons then my Pod mates always comes in with a Cedh deck that he wants to "test" out. I need more friend :/
It’s actually crazy how we play the game the EXACT same way down to the deck building in Moxfield and the first precon that we started off with playing. The only difference being I started a year after.
I will say, I dropped the vampire deck within a week of playing the game but returned to it within a month. I can send you the deck list if you want to see it, it wins reliably turn 5-7.
Crazy that I’ve played for 10 years and I haven’t thought to much about sandbagging, I kinda just pop off when I see that I can, this has been a very useful video, thank you
Sandbagging is a bit controversial. Yes, you're more likely to win because most decent players are holding up interaction for "the king", but socially speaking, a lot of people see samdbagging as cowardly, AND it can make the game drag on if everyone is waiting for someone else to pop off first. The length of EDH games is a common complaint, which is why I bring this up.
@@pokemaniac333 A little of column A and Column B. I personally like a lot of draw and threat variety. But it can definitely come down to: I have three creatures out, do I really want to risk a 4th to a board wipe, or do I want to commit another permanent type so I progress, but don't lose everything. And if I'm playing precons I'll sandbag a bit more to keep my options open and try to find the card draw. Since those never have enough for my tastes.
2 years of playing “I’m a good mtg player” brother you have so much to learn. I’ve played competitively since return to ravinca, and I still recognize I have so much to learn and am an above average player at best. Edh is a casual format to play for fun. CEDH is where the real magic begins.
Experience doesn't necessarily equate to skill level. I was considered a chess prodigy as a child. I would routinely steamroll players 10 times my age in tournaments. Some people simply have a lower barrier to entry than others.
A little reminder:
Of course everyone wants to win the Game, because why would you even play?
The difference is how important winning is to you and how you take a loss.
If you can loose a Game and you still had fun playing it, you are doing it right.
But I thought that everyone who beats MY deck is automatically pubstomping :-P
I actually don't care about winning just as long as I can do the things my deck was designed for.
Want to have more fun? Build around your commander. Want to win more? Build with it. Meaning, if you build around your commander, thats your focus. Thats your engine. Or build like Deck Driver and have cards that can win without your commander around.
Or do both. I have many decks that go off as soon as my commander hits the battlefield and have redundant effects in case I'm locked out by a Drannith Magistrate or something. Saying that players have to choose between them is simply a false dichotomy.
Half the battle is having the proper amount of each card type for your strategy. Don't skimp on resource, ramp and support cards. Pick any support or ramp that has synergy with your strategy instead of using strictly meta. Finally cut the cards that are situationally good, or only good if you're already winning. Every card needs to do something for you even if you're not completely set up for a combo, attack, etc.
Seems like you and I are on pretty similar trains of thought.
Winning is important, even in casual and lower power games. I don't enjoy playing with people that don't try to win.
I see a lot of ego flying around in this hobby. I've always enjoyed being underestimated, or letting someone else be the center of attention before swooping in for the win.
I've often found letting other people kill each other with their spite plays and meaningless back-and-forths will usually create the window I need to pull from 2nd to 1st.
We also run very similar numbers for our decks. For me, it's usually 38 lands (some will be mdfcs or cycling), 12 card draw, 12 ramp, and 12 pieces of removal/interaction (including counterspells and counterspell-esque effects). This usually leaves around 25 pieces for the strategy.
Getting my draw pieces has always been a big problem for me, so now I try to have a commander that can do some drawing for me. I find myself building more off combos now than a particular commander.
Interestingly regarding tutors, I've played for several years, and a couple years into my Commander career I used to hear people say "I've removed tutors from my decks, it's more fun", and I thought they were insane. I would run Vamp Tutor, Demonic Tutor, etc ("they're so strong, why wouldn't you run them?"), and you know what? I've since removed every hard-tutor from my decks too. Tons of playing experience led me to the realisation that certain levels of optimisation don't always achieve the mutual fun play experience desired at (most) casual tables. It's a weird thing, but since tempering my decks and identifying and removing 'scare cards' such as high-value tutors, I win more games and have way more fun, particularly in games with players with good threat assessment. Likely because removing such cards allow me to fly a little more below radar, perhaps in that key second-place you talk about in your video. But, each to their own and their respective pods and playstyles.
I VERY quickly learnt "life isn't everything"
in commander, you're playing infect, commander damage, or tokens to beat your opponent FASTER than they beat you
it was a great first lesson and Saint Traft was a great first commander
my philosophy is grab whatever I own that fits the deck jam them together see what happens and edit from there
Hell yeah!
So many people seem to forget that good decks go through many versions lol, almost any deck can go from janky to extremely powerful if you’re willing to lose a couple of games.
@@yurplethepurple2064 I pretty much play to lose just so I can make an amazing deck and then never play it because I made it too good for my play group and refuse to purposely make them lower power level
man, in 2002 when i just jammed in all the zombies i had :D :D :D
didnt matter if their effect harmed me.
I like the philosophy of your commander supporting your game plan rather than being it. Though I will say one of my most focused decks (that weirdly isn’t that expensive) is my light paws deck, all in enchantment voltrons. Just hang back with some soft stacks in the early mid game to discourage them from attacking you (think ghostly prison) and then once you have a good set of enchants to throw on your light paws pull her out and try to take someone out, plenty of protection enchants to give you evasion to get in an OTKO on someone as well as protect you from targeted removal.
Really fun mono colored commander focused deck. 😊
Not every deck can be built within a certain mold. You found one that works for you, great. You definitely realised a lot of points a lot quicker than I did, interacting with better players is always much quicker than having to reason things out for yourself. However, as a next step I would urge you to now try to find players who have managed to make decks function outside of your preferred mold. This would allow you to add more tools to your toolbox as a deckbuilder.
In our club we have a special table where people play only precon decks. And they really have a lot of fun. Most of them have much stronger decks, but they play precons for fun. Because the decks designed by wizards are awesome in terms of having a wholesome game where no one can win on the spot or lock other players from the game.
Especially when its a 4 way game out of the same set of precons. Those are always really good at playing each other
Where do draw effects fit into your personal formula?
I personally use the Command Zone deckbuilding template and it's been great. A few tweaks since even in the few years it's been out the format has had some power creep and obviously you should be building for the tables you play at. It's a nice starter jack of all trades template to then tailor to your personal experience and preference. They treat it not as rules, but as guidelines. Sort of a "well why does my deck stray from the template?" and if you have a reason, great, otherwise it's probably better to stick with the template if your answer is just "oh idk it just does."
10 - 12 Card Draw with Repeatable > One Off, I count tutors as card draw, since essentially it IS card draw you're just stacking the card you draw if you look at it purely from the standpoint of what it actually does vs does it trigger card draw effects. The mechanics of the game don't count it as card draw, but functionally speaking it puts a card in your hand that wasn't there before from your deck, so like functionally that is card draw in my eyes.
10 Ramp with more lands > enchantment ramp > artifact ramp > creature ramp and I do count cost reducers as ramp in certain decks. With the important that land in hand is NOT ramp. Could be considered draw, but not ramp, as it does nothing to put you ahead of curve.
10-12 Single Target Removal/Interaction
3-4 Board Wipes
I deviate a bit and instead of 35-38 my land base is always 33-35 depending on if the curve is closer to 2 CMC or 3 CMC
Then my deck will usually have 30 of the thing I want to do. Elfball? I've got 30 Elves. Enchantress? Well technically I have more than 30 enchants because SO many Enchantments fill the other roles, but all in all 30 enchants are the true core of the deck. Some exceptions for spellslinger, planeswalker, and landfall decks that want more or less of the thing.
Overlap is a big factor as well. Elvish Archdruid is ramp in elfball, Beast Whisperer is card draw, and Rec Sage is single target removal. But they all count as 3 of the 30 elves in the deck on top of fulfilling their roles as the other pillars of the deck.
Enchantress has TONS of overlap, especially in a deck like Sythis, Harvest's Hand. She innately makes all your enchantments card draw and there are so many other "when you cast an enchantment" or enchantment etb based card draw spells that you can skimp on the card draw side because otherwise you'll deck yourself out if you're not careful. There's enchantment based removal, enchantment based ramp, and all in all I hardly run anything BUT enchantments since enchantment creatures exist, outside of a few constellation cards that are just normal creatures. The overlap in Sythis is crazy, you can basically gain life and draw cards with everything but your lands each turn.
I recently made a deck for the new Riku that cares about modal spells and one instant include card was Archdruid's Charm because it fits the modal theme of the deck, but it is also is all three major pillars. Its first effect is a tutor ability that either puts a land onto the BF tapped for ramp and being one land ahead next turn (it's also instant speed so could be used on the end step prior to your turn so the tapped part doesn't matter), or if it's a nonland it goes to your hand functioning as card draw. Then its other two abilities are single target removal / interaction of different flavors. Obviously you only get to choose one of them at a time, but it's still a staple in that deck due to it filling so many roles.
Lastly, I 100% agree with the sentiment of keeping your cards close to the chest. No I'm not going to counter the sol ring or the tutor, I'm going to counter what they play or what they fetch because 9 times out of 10 it's coming anyways and I don't want to have wasted my interaction on something that eventually ends up being a nonissue.
I generally dont count win/loss as I see EDH as a social game. This game format was never designed to be competitive. You can get pretty efficient, but the overall structure lacks the consistency of a true card game due to the Singleton rule to be remotely of a competitive nature. Weird folk who have that "dunk on" attitude are the only people who care about win/loss in a game format like EDH. If I start winning too much, or if i noticed i played a deck that is performing far better than others in the pod I downgrade to other decks, of which I guarantee I carry precon level (and arguably lower) so others can actually enjoy the game and... y'know...want to play more.
This vid was definitely not for me. I don't play to win I play to have fun. Winning is not fun for me. Seeing mine or someone else's deck pop off and do the cool thing is fun.
But anyways, this is definitely for someone just not for me.
P.s. - I don't have to leave a comment, but doing so engages the algorithm for you my friend 😊
Our group (which usually plays in pods of 5 or 6) has two house rules. No mass land destruction, no infinite combos. I think the group has more fun overall that way, as it encourages fun builds in casual format.
Consecrate land becomes meaningless with your house rules.
Same with dark steel garrison and crackling emergence
@lessonman_3961 then... dont run those cards? None of those are really all that popular to begin with, and their only benefit is protecting individual lands, so its not like it would be relevant in most decks. Plus, if it *is* relevant to your strategy where you have a single land you *really* need alive, OP's comment didnt say anything about targetted land destruction.
this might be one of my favorite mtg channels on youtube! keep up the great content my friend
One of my new favorite things is adapting CEDH decks and tuning them for more casual players while keeping the same basic shell, Tymna/Tana bloodpod has been a blast constructing
I love tymna / tana! Great colors and super consistent!
I also start with CEDH decks then substitute cards that are either too expensive or that have artwork I don’t like.
@MisterWebb I feel ya bro, on the artwork bit.
Like I have a much easier time letting go of what I guess you'd call, "pet cards" when the upgrades/"better versions" of said cards have sicccckkkkkk artwork, or they come in an old-bordered form.
I know it's definitely a bad habit, that in NO WAY is gonna help me get more wins, be more consistent, etc etc...but one of the things that DREW me to MtG in the first place was how awesome the cards looked.
Old-framed Black cards, with their mixture of grimy, oily, bog bubbles for the border, and their card text being printed on that ancient, yellowed and disintegrating scroll paper...those will FOREVER be everything that encapsulates the dark, mysterious, and badass side of MtG to me.
@@conkyjoe8932 I’m no Spike - I’m not playing to win. I’m a Johnny looking to pull off a dank combo or alt win con with weird, old, highly-thematic cards.
Yeah that's boring asf. I play a lot of cedh I don't want to see the same old cards over and over in casual. Casual is supposed to be fun and almost follow a theme, using a less than optimal strategy. I have 4 cedh decks with no proxies. Can I just use them against your tuned down cedh decks? Wheres the originality? That's what casual is all about. Unique, ORIGINAL ideas.
The theme and synergy makes good sense. Along with an awareness on the number of cards. It does however put a limit to how much specific support stuff you can put in the deck.
Always stoked to see someone new creating content, WITH a love for cEDH.
It annoys me how there is this divide being created between our casual and competitive community. I love playing at any power level, but have started to embrace higher power more regularly. It literally feels like the casual community is tearing itself apart trying to figure out it's identity. As a person with anxiety, casual games started to become the worst experiences.
Look forward to more of your stuff 🍻
The pod just trying to have fun…then this guy enters… 😂 just playing. This was a cool video and I’m extremely new to building for commander. So thank you for the advice!
Not popping off first is so much better, I've been playing less than a year and my first couple decks were fast and got scary, but didn't win right away, so they always got stomped before I could finish the game ... More recently I built a deck that is slow and just ramps and then out of nowhere I cast 30 creatures in one turn and just win the game... Being patient and popping off 2nd always wins
I've definitely got the deckbuilding aspect down, but the concept of being in 2nd place is such a great way to go about playing a game! First threat is usually first out, and honestly that's the main reason I ended up losing most of my games. My decks are fast and efficient, but I am terrible at hiding it.
Definitely a time and place to just lay your cards on the table and declare yourself the archenemy. Can you guys stop this? Sometimes just good to sit back, collect resources, and board wipe if any opponent is getting too spicy. :D
More people need to know their decks better. It's the chief cause of people who take turns that take way too long. We stared implaming a rule that turns end after 5 mins. There is no reason unless playing with someone new to take that long.
Also, people need to know when to just scoop. If a combo with +10 steps is about to go off and nobody has the means of stopping it, don't be like, "No, you have to play it out." Just shuffle up, switch decks, whatever, and move on to the next one.
Love the video, and the insight on your thought process! I took a look at my decks with this mindset and it's astonishing how much it's changing my decks! I have a question for you though; where do you mark your lands that also interact with things? (ex. Bojuka Bog)
Great video!!!
That’s crazy. I also started playing magic in September 2022. Twins!!!
I am so sorry
We pretty much share the same philosophy, no wonder i like your decks so much. Copied your tatyova budget list and ive destroyed my lgs , keep up the good work!
Hi, ive been looking at that list too, It seems great but at the first glance i cant find many win-con in the deck, maybe its my fault and i missed something. How did feel playing at your LGS?
@@Lanto90 excelent, everyone ignores you cz you only have tatyova on the field most of the time. Then you explode with all the lands youve ramped
In my opinion, small ball card draw like cantrips and stuff like read the bones are underrated. I find that even if your deck's strat isn't thst powerful on paper, you can grab wins by being the most consistent at doing your thing. As such, while Sign in Blood may not be flashy, getting a few of those effects can definitely stack up to your victory thanks to seeing more of your deck overall.
Just found your videos last night. Thank you for good quality audio and intertaning content
Thank you! More to come soon!
I'd like to add don't play super aggro commanders, I have an atarka, world render deck where she gives attacking dragons double strike and shes 6 power so shes an auto 2 shot commander and I have cards in there like unleash fury that turn her into a 1 shot for a turn, no matter whenever I pop off, removal is always saved for her.
I feel the commander as a complimentary piece thing so much!
Lier, Disciple of the Drowned is my highest win rate deck and I basically only play him to enable a win or get more juice; the rest of the list is a hyper focused unblockable or evasive Rogue tribal combined with a ton of cantrips, protections and loot effects aiming to get to a point where I can either copy / reoccur Notorious Throng to go wide and/or finish the table with a Candlekeep Inspiration. It’s the only extra turn deck I’ve ever liked because it ends games on those turns too quick to really waste everyone’s time.
What's your philosophy with cards that give you extra draws? I generally dedicate around 10 cards to draw power in my decks because I hate gassing out.
Bit too spikey for my taste, but I don't begrudge it.
I mean, that's what i'd expect, given the title
I am in fact a spike. I am a competitive person!
This is how you learn the game that's not spikey.
*watches video on how to win more games* hmmmm too, Spikey 😂
By the level of spikeness showed in the video, we figure out how much a beginner this person in.
you don‘t run specific draw cards? o.O
Any time I resolve an Exterminatus is a win for me
This is why I always keep my interaction if a player would win a game after spending almost every ressource. I like to grant that player the win then, instead of letting someone hiding in second winning the game. xD
Oh you are one of those EDH players...nah just joking, im just kinda the person who plays it for fun and not focus winning.
Focusing on winning is fun?
I think it's time we just made it official and banned winning in commander. Winning ruins the game for casual players and should only be allowed at cEDH tables. Also, using tutors, boardwipes, counterspells, wheels, infect, eldrazi, slivers, combos, reserved list cards, or mana rocks that cost less than 3 mana makes you a bad person who should be permanently exiled from all LGS and playgroups.
@@majinvegeta6364 my words.
@@PaulGaither is there a point to your weird flex?
@majinvegeta6364 - I see that you liked your own comment, like a dog cleaning himself.
It isn't "a weird flex," but you clearly don't have the comprehension to get that. Unlike you, I am not some scrub who can't win real games, so you get your rocks off by trying to be the biggest casual at your LGS.
I build to explore concepts. My pet deck is an azorius counter deck. Denry Klin is the commander and can go off if allowed to
A lot of things make sense now.
I used to love 60 card 1v1 competitive mtg (still do, but have a lot less opportunity to play it than I used to).
The way you describe your commander ethos (win, do so quickly & efficiently, play tight) is exactly how I approach 60 card magic when I have the chance to play it. Commander (for me at least) is different from that.
I want to have some fun with friends, I want to have a laugh, I want everyone's deck to at least do something (I'd like everyone to enjoy the game), I want to see some crazy stuff, I want to do some crazy stuff. I also do want to win, but that's down the list somewhere.
I don't judge my Commander de ks by their win rate, but rather by how much fun they are to play. A deck could have a 50% win rate & I'd still keep it on the shelf most of the time if it was apparent that people didn't enjoy playing against it.
I do see a lot of this "over competitiveness" (not sure if that's quite the right phrase, but it'll do) in Commander of late. I feel it's symptomatic of mtg not having good enough support for the 60 card formats these days.
Commander was a much more chilled (IMO better) format when most players had 60 cards to scratch that competitive itch.
If you win more than around 25% of your game you play in the wrong kind of pod
I'd say I average about a 25-33% W/R in my normal play group. We all play higher power stuff and know what does well against each other.
I wouldn't say the wrong pod per say. Of course context matters. If you're playing cEDH and have a highly anti-meta build, you can expect to steal a lot of games because you're playing on a different axis than everyone else
I'm trying to get my friends to play better. But like one person is new. And another has a mix of very interactive and competitive decks for the pods. Or Tribal rats. Pod quality is so all over the place. XD
it is not necessarily about card pick or the efficiency of the deck. in my experience there is three things that it comes down to most the time. Game sense, timing and actively going for the win.
you can have the best most efficient deck, but if you cannot read the board or see when someone is a threat even if they only have one or two things on the board then it doesn't really matter how good the deck is, if you are in "first" and don't go after the right "second" you may find yourself in a place you don't want to be in.
timing is important, it may be tempting to go for the immediate win if you get a god hand, however, as soon as someone sees it and has better game sense, it feels bad to lose because you try to win but the damn blue players says "nope." or "would be a pity if that one venerable creature you need to win got exiled" with a little patience and skill you'll see your moment. that is when you strike and pull the win, sometimes even with someone else's board state.
it may seem odd to add this last one but actively going for the win is important. there are a number of players in our pod who at the start of the game will durdle (basically not taking actions to further your goal in a meaningful way) or when they attack, roll a die to decide which person to attack because they a have a 1/1 hasty they can swing and don't want to feel like they are picking on anyone. swing? yes, swing randomly? no. swing at the person who will become a problem for you, playing goblins, swing at the pillow fort player. also if there is a land screwed player at the table and they haven't scooped, leave them alone, they are not a problem and if they get three or four lands behind in the early game it is going to take a long time for them to catch up, if they ever will, deal with the people who are real threats and have an actual board state, kill the land screwed player when it is appropriate.
having a well constructed deck is important, if you throw a mess of unrelated card into a deck, don't expect to win. if you run no interaction or very little, expect to run into problems at some point. in the end, it is a game, you don't need expensive cards to have fun, which is really what casual commander is about.
This Channel is Gold.
Count me in.👍🏻
Honestly I've been playing commander since 2017 so not terribly long . Here's how I've learner how to win . Play with synergy. Stick to a theme and don't deviate ... removal is essential but going overboard slows you down . Play select removal and hold onto it . Don't use it just because you can. But using too much just decreases your decks ability to win .. your deck should be a one trick Pony depending on the archetype. But it should do that one trick really well
I started about 6 months ago, and while I have A LOT to learn, I’ve found a sort of similar strategy. I don’t have any super fast mana cards so I like to have 8-12 ramp, removal and draw spells to make sure I can stay caught up and churn through every deck to draw the cards I need. I built Brenard, Ginger Sculptor as my first non-precon deck and learned that letting go of some favorite cards to make sure I could do the thing every game has made me have a lot more fun and led to consistency almost ever my game.
Most recently I picked up Mothman and Caesar (loved fallout), and while Mothman is still pretty similar to the original gameplan and was more straight forward to build more consistent, I’ve struggled to revamp and build aristocrat Caesar. My first iteration had 8 creature token generators, 10 buffs and anthems, and 10 burn spells so I could go wide, make my tokens bigger and burn when they entered and died so even if they were blocked and died they’d still give value. It turns out I struggled to get the ball rolling because I struggled to get a creature token to sac early. This means I wasn’t able to get Caesar going with more creatures and card draw. I ended up rearranging a lot, and now I have 17 creature token generators, 8 anthems/buffs, and 8 burn spells. I haven’t played yet, but in my goldfishing I was able to start my gameplan on curve much more consistently. Like what you suggested, I had to take some losses, cut some pets, and double that section to make it more consistent. If anybody want to look, here’s the link to my Caesar: www.archidekt.com/decks/7241284/caesar let me know what you think of it, and don’t be afraid to be harsh, I’m still learning so I would like to learn more 😌
I would probably cut all tribal-matters cards - “Horn of Gondor” for example. It does care about Humans. Phyrexian Arena is just a terrible card - you can make use of Painful Truths instead.
Also removal is lacking - 8 pieces is too little.
I base my decks from CEDH and see budget alter cards. My first one was a Jhoira Weatherlight Captain midrange storm. Lots of counterspells and mill effects on the cheap.
I find it best to have decks built for several purposes.
Some of them are purely a fun playstyle or do something neat that other people will enjoy seeing
Some more competitive but still held back a little bit so people can play their stronger decks and its still fair
At least 1 borderline competitive for those rare groupings when someone either wont interact with others or is just being insufferable
No mention of card draw or card advantage? Drawing cards is important because more cards means more options and a great many games are won by the player who drew the most cards. I suggest running 10-12 cards in your deck that provide some sort of card advantage.
Thank you all for watching! This support in just over a month of uploads has been so amazing!
Can you do a video about the false dichotomy between casual commander and cEDH. Not every deck that wins a game is pubstomping and only should be allowed in cEDH. That's functionally a different format with a totally different meta. There are only about 50 viable decks and half a dozen win cons. Anything else is mid to high power commander. The ambiguous nature of the term "social format" has been co-opted by bad players to excuse poor sportsmanship.
@@majinvegeta6364i don’t think there’s a false dichotomy. It’s just “muh social contract” which means “you can’t do anything i don’t like”. Cedh isn’t a format; it’s a mindset. Of people who actually KNOW how to play the game and have the proper attitude and sportsmanlike conduct about it. None of this whole social format BS
One tip to add from my experience. If you play Slivers you are a KOS target. I play Slivers at my local tournament.
Swap to commander to the indestructible one and fill slots with protection and board wipes keeping your best card draw as well, you will be KOS and will be ready to turn tables and win most 1vs1. It worked on my LGS full of spikes
Would you be open to look
At viewer decks? Bitting my nails off trying to build a sauron, the dark lord nazgul deck 😅
Realising that you can't play favorites with your cards when it comes to efficiency and consistency is a big level-up moment for any deck builder, one that I'm still working on. It's difficult to divorce yourself from your favorite pieces of cardboard, but it's a must if you ever want to get past the feast and famine stage of playing, into a space of consistent performance where your skills as a player gets free reins.
A more "boring" list of functional cards, as opposed to a jumble of splashy, "fun" spells that you'll only resolve successfully once in a blue moon, will respect your time more.
Keep up the good work! Would love to see you do a live brew at some point, to see you put the philosophy into practice :)
A live brew could certainly be a great idea to do!
It’s commander. It’s a casual format. You should absolutely play the fun cards.
If one of my buddies was playing hard to win every game and pulling his favorite cards from his decks to optimize, I'd organize an intervention.
I pray that the majority of magic players do not adopt this logic. The idea that we should start playing more highly efficient staples and optimized cards instead of playing the things we like and are naturally drawn to because they’re cool or splashy is quite literally the death of casual commander. If you’re playing cedh, good for you, build as strong of a deck as you can- that’s the goal. If you’re playing any other form of commander, chill out. Not every game, not every pod is all about winning.
@@joebob7483 Tell me, how fun is it to be completely ineffectual, to not be able to do anything at all, to just be set dressing for someone else's performance, or to be bashed down over and over because you've essentially stacked your deck against yourself? Not very, in my experience.
You should play fun, splashy cards, for sure. Just not all of them in every single deck you play, because that deck would be a mess. I can recommend you watch SalubriousSnail's video from a couple of weeks ago, where he goes into this.
And this is the sort of thing he's talking about, that I also keep seeing when I play. People brew decks which are either just piles of payoffs (splashy) with virtually no enablers (less splashy by necessary). They are, at best, goldfishing powerhouses, and when they win they play like that as well, i.e. solitaire'ing.
Um...you've been playing for two years? I guess I'm impressed that someone so inexperienced is doing so well in the MTG UA-cam space.
Seriously, well done
How I win 50% of my commander games I run the Thasas Oracle combo with every tutor if I don’t have one piece of my combo in hand I mulligan I play this every Friday and people know what I’m going to do and I still win every other Friday
They should learn to stop you better then
This guy is trolling. He's probably never won a game in his life just like everyone else who whines about a "social format." Apparently, casual means everyone who doesn't let ME win is a big meanie!!
I consistently win turn 3 just because you can’t win doesn't mean I can’t
Maybe play a couple of games and build a better deck then you can compete with the big dogs best of luck!
Insta click. I believe you will grow a lot. Keep up the great videos!
Thank you!
Do you count protection spells like Heroic Intervention as part of your 12-16 interaction/removal, or do you count those towards the main strategy cards?
I count them toward the main strategy. I can see the argument for treating them as counters to opponents' removal, but you still need the same amount of interaction to prevent them from racing ahead. I see them as adding a level of resilience to my win cons.
depends honestly. I count them as interaction and don't generally count them toward strategy cards. usually I count them as "tech cards" cards that don't necessarily fit in to the "theme" of the deck but are useful none the less. as an example my Abdel Adrian deck runs a Windshaper Planetar and a Reflector mage. neither necessarily get me closer to the victory however they both have a useful ability that the deck can abuse and have very powerful abilities that either protect me or stall the enemy. they sit squarely in my "tech" section. but there are a wide degree of deck building strategies out there.
I agree with the advice except for the pop off part. I love being the first to “awaken” my strat and turn the game into a soft 3v1
Cutting good cards can be hard but you really do have to ask yourself whether they push your strategy.
I like to aim for 9 cards per thing my deck wants to do, that way it divides evenly into 11 strategies (all be it, 4 of those r dedicated to lands, usually 1 or 2 for basics, 1 or 2 for mana fixing, n 1 for utility lands) which leaves me with 7 other strategies to aim for. Sometimes I can drop the number of cards in a strategy to 6 if it is something that I'll need a lil later into the game n don't want cluttering my hand (so example is my Rhys, the Redeemed token devk had 9 board wipes but I dropped it to 6 when I realized I usually have the most threatening board n don't need to rush into my Dies triggers right away (almost every creature in my deck makes tokens when it dies so Im never hurt by a board wipe) n I used the extra 3 slots to put 3 more spot removal spells to keep my interactions high even when I don't wanna kill everything. So in a perfect world on turn 4 my 11 cards should have something from each pile if I have 9 of each, 4 lands, 1 spot removal, 1 board wipe, 1 thing to multiply or buff my tokens or sac creatures to make more tokens, 1 thing to protect my stuff or get it back from the grave, 1 creature who wants to dies to make tokens n 1 that wants to die for a different effect, n 1 ramp card. The numbers in my deck aren't at 9 each anymore but that was the plan I started with n tweaked it from there based on how games went over time.
How do I win less? This bothers me.
Yes, winning is cool and all but at this point I kinda feel bad.
I know I'm a good magic player, but after tracking my games, my winrate is too high:
35% in 4-player-games and 45% in 3-player games
(I started tracking in january this year and I'm already at 214 games in total)
I've got a general circle of 20 friends I'm playing with, but somebody always brings a new friend. That means my playgroup don't really get accustomed to my playstyle
Might just help to have a variety of decks on hand. Like I've got most decks I build to a mid-power casual. (High Power Casual would be Casual with Expropriate for instance.) Some of my decks vary around that. And then I have a few precons on me. Sometimes it's just time to back off, dig out the K&T precon and enjoy a game. And it's punchy enough that it can still win some of them too.
This video speaks to me. I love playing Thrasios Tymna, and I'm not even running Turbo Druid anymore but have instead opted for a midrange build which is very much an anti-meta build.
However, even though the midrange build scales very well to the overall power of the table (I also don't play out Thoracle lines at lower power tables), the overall value of the creatures I play tend to overpower the rest of the table.
That leads to feels bad moments for some people I play with because they want to abuse treasures or death triggers and I completely shut down those lines (which is the point of my list)
We tell people all the time to focus on your main game plan and have a plan to win the game.
it's sad how few really good "new player" commander options there are. i try to recommend something green to anyone who wants to play but then they're like "i saw this boros deck was good for new players cause TCC said so" and all you can do is face palm knowing they're not going to really have that good of a time. And i also try to convince them to play something that doesn't touch blue cause some players will assume you have "Swan Song, An offer you can't refuse, Misdirection, Force of Will, Force of Negation, and/or Flusterstorm" just because your playing a commander option with blue in it's color identity.
Suggestion - Adding card price (rom Card Kingdom or TCG Player) may be beneficial.
meanwile im out here like "this card sucks but its funny ok its in the deck"
I always build my meren with a lot of creatures, the only two artifacts I use in it are sol ring and birthing pod, for ramps I only use creatures, and it's a pretty fast deck.
Have you tried adding Protean Hulk?
@@majinvegeta6364 it is always in my deck
Im sadly in a spot where i mostly play 1v1 so im also careful about making my decks. Still there is a lot for me to learn! Love your content
Or you could just not spend north of 500 on one deck of cards and find people and set a price. You can get starter commander decks sold at the LGS for 40 bucks.
"He got to the end of the rainbow and it was cornflakes."
Setting a price for the group is the surest way to play a fair game. And no, you have like 50 to 1 odds in winning sitting down at a highly tuned table with decks over 500 bucks with your precon deck you bought behind the counter.
‘Test-Handing’ is called ‘Goldfishing’ in Magic parlance. Good luck!
Yeah Strefan commander is bad i also started with him and i almost quitted but then there was Phyrexia and I had fun for a while with Ixhel & the poison stuff but lacking card and future options i quickly started looking for another type of commander less battle focused.
And then i found out about Modern and i fell in love with Murktide especially the spell slinging aspect of it
Then i started looking for spell slinging commander and now i am the proud owner of a Veyran Voice of Dulaity and a Narset Enlightened Master. Veyran is for fun games and Narset is more a tryhard one
I am happy that i did this journey because you cant know what mechanics you like if you havent played with or against
So my advice to all beginner is find ur playstyle (aggro, control, ...) and then find a mecanics that suits u best
Great video! I've been playing around 1.5 years at the upgraded precon level. I often see Card Draw as a category in deck building templates. Is that a category in your decks and how many do you usually run? Similarly, what about protection spells?
Strefan was my first commander deck as well. I found out about Edgar Markov this year and bought the judge promo version. Swapped him in as a commander with a couple of nasty cards. My play group tells me the deck is gross now 😅
I started back in 2012 when cards like supreme verdict, possibly storm, and primordial hydra was in standard. Honestly it’s been hard to keep up with everything now because there are just so many cards to remember lol 😂
So, I started by dumping a ton of money into a krenko goblin deck and refined it through extensive playtesting. It's a really good deck but I stopped using it because everyone immediately gangs up on me. Every game with it is just a fight between me and the whole table.
I now prefer decks that are a bit more subtle. There's more to commander than just cards. It's important to keep your opponents fighting amongst each other, while tightening the ropes around their necks, and preventing them from noticing until it's too late. Being an overwhelming threat is fun but it's not a very good strategy.
If anything, your Krenko deck sounds like it's still too slow. Win cons that take multiple turns to close out a game draw a lot of aggro. The best thing you can do is assemble a win condition that closes out the game the same turn that it's played. Krenko goes infinite with a ham sandwich, and red has numerous ways to give haste or do direct damage.
It's one thing to build a deck that the rest of the play group is more comfortable playing against, but don't give up on something you love just because someone else doesn't feel the same way about it. There's plenty of tables where your pet deck would be welcome. Keep learning and growing. Pursue your passions, don't let other people hold you back, and live your best life.
@@majinvegeta6364 it's fast alright. It's a $1000 deck. It can win turn two sometimes. (Turn 1 with a perfect hand) Turn 3 wins are not difficult or rare to pull off. But by then, people are already able to counter, remove, or force me to shuffle. My playgroup have all taken the goblins into consideration when building their decks to the point where someone at the table almost always has a way to stop me. They did all that because the Goblins are just that much of a menace.
Deck building challenge -> construct a deck that prevents people from dying or ever having the game end
It depends on the cards but it's sometimes is worth having less than eight of a certain card type in your deck for instance board wipes
What's your thoughts on the number of draw spells a deck needs?
Depends on a deck, do you want to draw or NEED to draw? Does Drawing win you the game? Does it make other effects happen? If not 6-8 can work depending on the spells. What colors? You can't ask such a broad blanket statement.
depends on your deck. ideally you're drawing cards incidentally through synergy so "raw draw" is rarely useful IMO. if your commander draws cards, a decent number of cards that lean into its mechanic should be plenty. if your commander doesn't draw cards, try to find stuff that draws cards AND does stuff that your commander cares about. it's hard to put a solid number to that but I aim for around 30 synergy pieces in more commander-centric decks, and if half of those have either synergistic or incidental draw that gives us about 15? regardless if you're building a strong deck you probably won't need to fill out slots with draw
Typically I like to have some sort of card advantage in the command zone. But If I don't I go by the 8-12 rule! Depending on how much your particular deck needs!
"nobody's trynna go for second place" my brother you don't know the group hug decks that I play with
This one made me laugh
Strefan was also my first! Any tips on how to improve him? Or do you have a high power deck on moxfield for him?
I found switching the commander to Olivia made the deck much better and hard to keep down.
@@andrewsutherland1909 The new Olivia from Crimson Vow or the old one?
@@neonmadness9498 Crimson Vow. I think she's the alt commander in the precon. I liked her as the commander so much I got the Sisters of the Undead version of the card to use!
@@andrewsutherland1909 She's not the alt, it's some girls with partner, but yeah I already got her since she was in the 50$ upgrade I found so that worked out nicely
That Strephan Deck is pretty decent when upgraded