One of the things I have been figuring out having ADHD is the whole concept of being "productive". The first thing I did upon discovwring this part of me was to start trying to make a productivity plan. I made a second Google calendar and started planning every microsecond of my day, and then I took a long look at it and realized this was a good way to drive me crazy or burn out. So I started exploring the idea of not being "productive". I told myself "it's ok to be bored" and I practiced sitting in a spot and just looking at a painting or a spot on the wall and reminded myself that if I wasn't constantly "doing something" the world would not end. Just doing that a couple times has helped tremendously. When I am talking to someone and I get the impulse to keep my mind busy by thinking about other things while the other person is talking, I can remind myself to "practice boredom" to stay in the moment with them. So I think that the relationship between ADHD and productivity is complicated. I have trouble with being productive on one level, and on the other level I have trouble not always pushing myself to be more productive. But now that I have my diagnosis at least I can realize it's and issue and say "ok, so what should I do about it" and start making changes.
I can also get stuck on one aspect of a problem when problem solving. I’m prone to “bang my head against a wall,” trying to force something to work, when I really need to go back to the drawing board. Even if I’m hyper fixated on something “good” like work, it can still be a detriment. It’s also immensely rewarding to dive deep into a recreational activity. I’ve certainly heard people often say, “if someone could harness their hyper focus, imagine the results.” In reality, it just an aspect of poor regulation. I’ve definitely harnessed it before, but it’s like trying harness wind from a tornado. You never truly know where it will happen, how long it will last, if it will result in collateral damage, etc.
My son has been diagnosed with Adhd but the more i hear you speak of hyper focusing the more I see my past and present behavior layed put before me. Thank you so much for sharing.
I've started a fun side gig that paid my rent with the hyper-focusing, while ignoring my school work. I wouldn't describe it as a benefit since it's not goal directed, and so what you're diverting attention to isn't always beneficial. I think I just got lucky and happened to be able to monetize what I focused on. And honestly, someone might have accomplished what I did without the need to hyper-focus anyway. I get the sense that the attention hyper-fixation as a benefit to ADHD is an attempt to look for a silver lining. In myself, I think of it as prolonged procrastination.
I find it far easier to conceptualise basically every single one of my symptoms or traits as a regulation issue, and to explain my ADHD to the people around me that way. I think this lack of definition on what hyperfocus is really does not help to study it. I tend to only use it when I am discussing a very particular phenomenon - where I am absorbed in a task that feels urgent and captures my attention wholly. If I'm disturbed in this state I can be pretty damn rude. It's the reason I gave up playing new video games, particularly where they have no apparent end. It's often not enjoyable, and is most useful for tasks that I have been putting off to the last minute. It feels like a real motor is diriving me. Flow, I use for something far more relaxed - yes my attention is fully captured but in a relaxed slow way, like when I paint. I can lose hours to it, it can be hard to step away from, but the urgency piece isn't there. I can't really control either of these states, but I would say in both cases I'd be in genuine danger of sitting through a fire going on around me. I've missed my train stop on several occasions even in what I call the flow state - and when I'm doing something physical like embroidery my husband needs to literally touch me to snap me out of it.
I was diagnosed with ADHD about a year ago at 36. Before my diagnosis I was convinced I was stupid, because I could not get things done. Then I was found to be closer to gifted than stupid, but that made me more confused as I still couldn’t get things done. Viewing ADHD as an executive function impairment has explained a lot of my behavior that has previously been misdiagnosed or misunderstood, especially my rage as a child and my emotional intensity. My experience with Hyperfocus in particular is as you describe, it really depends on if it “activates” on something that is beneficial or not, and if there are more urgent or important tasks that get ignored. As you have mentioned previously, viewing Hyperfocus as perseveration has been useful in my understanding of this behavior. Especially since Hyperfocus is not voluntary. My experience with Hyperfocus or perseveration isn’t limited to states of focused behavior, I also experience what I can only describe as thought-based hyperfocus or perseveration after being engrossed in a topic for a long time. Like an echo or ripple effect. This again comes into play with my other ADHD symptoms, particularly in social situations where I have a tendency to be distracted or pre-occupied by thoughts of the topic of my previous hyperfocus. Despite my best efforts not to, I sometimes bring the subject for discussion. I know I should not, but I do it anyway. Then my emotional dysregulation comes into play in my evaluation of how me bringing up this topic was received. In my view Hyperfocus is just another symptom of impaired self-regulation, and part of the executive dysfunction chain.
Man its actually amazing that someone sees through Hyper-Focus, Creativity and the "high motivated/energetic people" ha sure.... in ur dreams. Great video, like you said does not mean the individual is not highly gifed some humans just have massive impact on the wellbeaing of the world population throught history, and does not mean there is nothing positive in some sense that is not yet discovered but so far i highly agree.....
For me, hyper focus is just a symptom of my time blindness. When I'm working on something interesting, like a big research and writing project, I don't notice the passage of time and have trouble pulling myself away. I'll work all day and skip meals. However, I'll do this work at the expense of other, shorter tasks that I need to be doing to move my work along, like writing letters and emails.
Great point! Perhaps hyperfocus is just a result of other factors? I also get irritated if interrupted, but could that be explained by emotional dysregulation?
Another brilliant presentation! Now just to figure out how to cajole my poor child brain to focus more often on the things my my adult cognition can recognise as most important....
i guess the term hyperfocus may shape how we see some of our hyperfocus tendencies (more focussed if you will) for me this is more of a vague cluster of effects that opposes the cluster of more chaotic foggy states of my mind. There is this sort of short time focussed state for me, for hours, but not days, and i can't really control what it applies to or when. But compared to the chaotic or foggy states of the brain it feels like such a relief/comfort so that probably makes me double down on that state bc it's sort of my life raft on an unruly sea 😅. But there is also a long term version of it for me where there are some topics that really capture my interest in such an intense and long lasting way that they are relatively dependable to light the fire of my hyperfocus when i do sth related to it. It's not all stuff that i find interesting (although all those are easier to focus on) but sort of the top 10% of interesting things. But those things can be longer term by the virtue of the stimulus being a longer term thing if that makes sense? idk. but they can certainly also distract from important things. for the record i have diagnosed adhd but i am one of those non-representative colledge educated ppl and the severity of my symptoms is definitely not in the highest part of the curve (although i am struggling enough as is so yk, i am not complaining😅)
Waiting to find out if I have ADHD (assessment in June), but ''hyperfocus'' is something I do. I'm diagnosed autistic so might be explained by this too. I hyperfocus on interesting tasks but at the expense of tasks I should be doing - cleaning, forms, organizing etc. It can be positive - offsets my anxiety (I have OCD). But it also means the house gets dirty and I can't attend to anything else. I hasten to add that I can't hyperfocus if there's any extraneous noise in my environment, then I struggle to focus and it's very stressful.
Hyper focus is great until you exercise so intensely that your body is run down and broken by 40. Or an artist who can't draw anymore because they developed nerve damage from non-stop drawing.
ADHD is not a "disorder of self-regulation" either. Nobody 'regulates' what they find interesting, neurotypicals or otherwise. We simply find most things more boring than your standard neurotypical, unless that thing happens to be novel or exciting in a way that appeals to us individually. And when we do find that 'thing', it feeds us like nothing else in a most addictive way, hence the 'hyperfocus', until it's no longer novel or interesting. But self-regulation? No, that's not really what this is fundamentally about.
Great explanation! That sounds so true and so like me. I can't do consistent work on things I don't find exciting, but will do no matter how much on things that are exciting. With something new and exciting I do it untill I feel like it's given me all it can give. Fortunately there are things that keep on giving even after many years, but that's very rare.
I disagree. It doesn't matter if it's pleasurable or not it's self regulation. We are dopamine chasers for a good reason. We don't produce or retain enough. Dopamine is a huge factor in self regulation. Neurotypicals retain dopamine and plow through the boring everyday stuff and get another dopamine boost on completion. We find it difficult to do any activities without our booster dopamine. The things we get dopamine boosts from we get practically just before we start and then we proceed. With the boring stuff if we can find something to do that boosts our dopamine like about twenty minutes of aerobic exercise we cope better than without. However, unlike neurotypicals we may not get that dopamine boost on completion making it a drag again and again and again. I have inattentive type adhd, executive dysfunction, auditory processing disorder, and a very slow processing brain. I can tell you it is absolutely a self regulation problem and one that can get even more complicated the more problems you suffer from executive function wise...etc....
this youtuber said that hyperfocus is for autism and adhd is just lack of perseverance in 2008 ua-cam.com/video/dE3KquahtKc/v-deo.html so your opinion might be right after a decade unless if you don't have a phd right now lol
I am a huge Dr. Barkley fan for many years HOWEVER I want to remind everyone that he, by his own admission, is funded by big pharma, so we must keep in mind that he is not paid to find advantages of ADHD, quite the opposite. Notice in this vid he fails to mention the other disorder (syndrome actually ) that was the “inattentive type” that will be eliminated from ADHD in the next DSM. Hmmmmmm One has to wonder why he would use old studies not allowing for this new finding that a substantial amount of people diagnosed with ADHD, actually do not have ADHD or even a disorder but an entirely different syndrome. I look forward to the studies on ADHD AFTER the people who don’t have it are removed from the equation. In the meantime, keep this in mind when listening to Dr. Barkley’s opinion.
He doesn't really understand ADHD, to be completely honest. He has a outsider's comprehension, but it often misses the mark, and relies very heavily on his own perceptions of reality (positionality), which is a fundamentally flawed way to imagine a thing.
I don't care so much about the pharmaceutical funding, but I was wondering through the second part of this series whether the results would be different if the people running the study divided the "clinical ADHD" people between genetic ADHD, environmentally-caused ADHD (i.e. lead exposure), and inattentive (not ADHD, some other kind of disorder).
One of the things I have been figuring out having ADHD is the whole concept of being "productive". The first thing I did upon discovwring this part of me was to start trying to make a productivity plan. I made a second Google calendar and started planning every microsecond of my day, and then I took a long look at it and realized this was a good way to drive me crazy or burn out. So I started exploring the idea of not being "productive". I told myself "it's ok to be bored" and I practiced sitting in a spot and just looking at a painting or a spot on the wall and reminded myself that if I wasn't constantly "doing something" the world would not end. Just doing that a couple times has helped tremendously. When I am talking to someone and I get the impulse to keep my mind busy by thinking about other things while the other person is talking, I can remind myself to "practice boredom" to stay in the moment with them. So I think that the relationship between ADHD and productivity is complicated. I have trouble with being productive on one level, and on the other level I have trouble not always pushing myself to be more productive. But now that I have my diagnosis at least I can realize it's and issue and say "ok, so what should I do about it" and start making changes.
I can also get stuck on one aspect of a problem when problem solving. I’m prone to “bang my head against a wall,” trying to force something to work, when I really need to go back to the drawing board. Even if I’m hyper fixated on something “good” like work, it can still be a detriment.
It’s also immensely rewarding to dive deep into a recreational activity.
I’ve certainly heard people often say, “if someone could harness their hyper focus, imagine the results.” In reality, it just an aspect of poor regulation. I’ve definitely harnessed it before, but it’s like trying harness wind from a tornado. You never truly know where it will happen, how long it will last, if it will result in collateral damage, etc.
My son has been diagnosed with Adhd but the more i hear you speak of hyper focusing the more I see my past and present behavior layed put before me. Thank you so much for sharing.
I've started a fun side gig that paid my rent with the hyper-focusing, while ignoring my school work. I wouldn't describe it as a benefit since it's not goal directed, and so what you're diverting attention to isn't always beneficial. I think I just got lucky and happened to be able to monetize what I focused on. And honestly, someone might have accomplished what I did without the need to hyper-focus anyway.
I get the sense that the attention hyper-fixation as a benefit to ADHD is an attempt to look for a silver lining. In myself, I think of it as prolonged procrastination.
I find it far easier to conceptualise basically every single one of my symptoms or traits as a regulation issue, and to explain my ADHD to the people around me that way.
I think this lack of definition on what hyperfocus is really does not help to study it. I tend to only use it when I am discussing a very particular phenomenon - where I am absorbed in a task that feels urgent and captures my attention wholly. If I'm disturbed in this state I can be pretty damn rude. It's the reason I gave up playing new video games, particularly where they have no apparent end. It's often not enjoyable, and is most useful for tasks that I have been putting off to the last minute. It feels like a real motor is diriving me.
Flow, I use for something far more relaxed - yes my attention is fully captured but in a relaxed slow way, like when I paint. I can lose hours to it, it can be hard to step away from, but the urgency piece isn't there.
I can't really control either of these states, but I would say in both cases I'd be in genuine danger of sitting through a fire going on around me. I've missed my train stop on several occasions even in what I call the flow state - and when I'm doing something physical like embroidery my husband needs to literally touch me to snap me out of it.
I was diagnosed with ADHD about a year ago at 36. Before my diagnosis I was convinced I was stupid, because I could not get things done. Then I was found to be closer to gifted than stupid, but that made me more confused as I still couldn’t get things done.
Viewing ADHD as an executive function impairment has explained a lot of my behavior that has previously been misdiagnosed or misunderstood, especially my rage as a child and my emotional intensity.
My experience with Hyperfocus in particular is as you describe, it really depends on if it “activates” on something that is beneficial or not, and if there are more urgent or important tasks that get ignored.
As you have mentioned previously, viewing Hyperfocus as perseveration has been useful in my understanding of this behavior. Especially since Hyperfocus is not voluntary.
My experience with Hyperfocus or perseveration isn’t limited to states of focused behavior, I also experience what I can only describe as thought-based hyperfocus or perseveration after being engrossed in a topic for a long time. Like an echo or ripple effect.
This again comes into play with my other ADHD symptoms, particularly in social situations where I have a tendency to be distracted or pre-occupied by thoughts of the topic of my previous hyperfocus.
Despite my best efforts not to, I sometimes bring the subject for discussion. I know I should not, but I do it anyway. Then my emotional dysregulation comes into play in my evaluation of how me bringing up this topic was received.
In my view Hyperfocus is just another symptom of impaired self-regulation, and part of the executive dysfunction chain.
Yes, I have this.. what is this called? It's like being stuck on an idea ruminating/playing with it. Brain just keeps going on and on
Man its actually amazing that someone sees through Hyper-Focus, Creativity and the "high motivated/energetic people" ha sure.... in ur dreams. Great video, like you said does not mean the individual is not highly gifed some humans just have massive impact on the wellbeaing of the world population throught history, and does not mean there is nothing positive in some sense that is not yet discovered but so far i highly agree.....
For me, hyper focus is just a symptom of my time blindness. When I'm working on something interesting, like a big research and writing project, I don't notice the passage of time and have trouble pulling myself away. I'll work all day and skip meals. However, I'll do this work at the expense of other, shorter tasks that I need to be doing to move my work along, like writing letters and emails.
Great point! Perhaps hyperfocus is just a result of other factors? I also get irritated if interrupted, but could that be explained by emotional dysregulation?
Thank you so much
Another brilliant presentation! Now just to figure out how to cajole my poor child brain to focus more often on the things my my adult cognition can recognise as most important....
i guess the term hyperfocus may shape how we see some of our hyperfocus tendencies (more focussed if you will) for me this is more of a vague cluster of effects that opposes the cluster of more chaotic foggy states of my mind. There is this sort of short time focussed state for me, for hours, but not days, and i can't really control what it applies to or when. But compared to the chaotic or foggy states of the brain it feels like such a relief/comfort so that probably makes me double down on that state bc it's sort of my life raft on an unruly sea 😅.
But there is also a long term version of it for me where there are some topics that really capture my interest in such an intense and long lasting way that they are relatively dependable to light the fire of my hyperfocus when i do sth related to it. It's not all stuff that i find interesting (although all those are easier to focus on) but sort of the top 10% of interesting things. But those things can be longer term by the virtue of the stimulus being a longer term thing if that makes sense? idk. but they can certainly also distract from important things.
for the record i have diagnosed adhd but i am one of those non-representative colledge educated ppl and the severity of my symptoms is definitely not in the highest part of the curve (although i am struggling enough as is so yk, i am not complaining😅)
Waiting to find out if I have ADHD (assessment in June), but ''hyperfocus'' is something I do. I'm diagnosed autistic so might be explained by this too. I hyperfocus on interesting tasks but at the expense of tasks I should be doing - cleaning, forms, organizing etc. It can be positive - offsets my anxiety (I have OCD). But it also means the house gets dirty and I can't attend to anything else. I hasten to add that I can't hyperfocus if there's any extraneous noise in my environment, then I struggle to focus and it's very stressful.
You speak of visual short term memory playing a role in motivation. What would be the implications of this in someone with aphantasia?
Hyper focus is great until you exercise so intensely that your body is run down and broken by 40. Or an artist who can't draw anymore because they developed nerve damage from non-stop drawing.
Capacitista
ADHD is not a "disorder of self-regulation" either. Nobody 'regulates' what they find interesting, neurotypicals or otherwise. We simply find most things more boring than your standard neurotypical, unless that thing happens to be novel or exciting in a way that appeals to us individually. And when we do find that 'thing', it feeds us like nothing else in a most addictive way, hence the 'hyperfocus', until it's no longer novel or interesting. But self-regulation? No, that's not really what this is fundamentally about.
Great explanation! That sounds so true and so like me. I can't do consistent work on things I don't find exciting, but will do no matter how much on things that are exciting. With something new and exciting I do it untill I feel like it's given me all it can give. Fortunately there are things that keep on giving even after many years, but that's very rare.
I disagree. It doesn't matter if it's pleasurable or not it's self regulation. We are dopamine chasers for a good reason. We don't produce or retain enough. Dopamine is a huge factor in self regulation. Neurotypicals retain dopamine and plow through the boring everyday stuff and get another dopamine boost on completion. We find it difficult to do any activities without our booster dopamine. The things we get dopamine boosts from we get practically just before we start and then we proceed. With the boring stuff if we can find something to do that boosts our dopamine like about twenty minutes of aerobic exercise we cope better than without. However, unlike neurotypicals we may not get that dopamine boost on completion making it a drag again and again and again.
I have inattentive type adhd, executive dysfunction, auditory processing disorder, and a very slow processing brain. I can tell you it is absolutely a self regulation problem and one that can get even more complicated the more problems you suffer from executive function wise...etc....
this youtuber said that hyperfocus is for autism and adhd is just lack of perseverance in 2008 ua-cam.com/video/dE3KquahtKc/v-deo.html
so your opinion might be right after a decade unless if you don't have a phd right now lol
I am a huge Dr. Barkley fan for many years HOWEVER I want to remind everyone that he, by his own admission, is funded by big pharma, so we must keep in mind that he is not paid to find advantages of ADHD, quite the opposite. Notice in this vid he fails to mention the other disorder (syndrome actually ) that was the “inattentive type” that will be eliminated from ADHD in the next DSM. Hmmmmmm One has to wonder why he would use old studies not allowing for this new finding that a substantial amount of people diagnosed with ADHD, actually do not have ADHD or even a disorder but an entirely different syndrome.
I look forward to the studies on ADHD AFTER the people who don’t have it are removed from the equation. In the meantime, keep this in mind when listening to Dr. Barkley’s opinion.
He doesn't really understand ADHD, to be completely honest. He has a outsider's comprehension, but it often misses the mark, and relies very heavily on his own perceptions of reality (positionality), which is a fundamentally flawed way to imagine a thing.
I don't care so much about the pharmaceutical funding, but I was wondering through the second part of this series whether the results would be different if the people running the study divided the "clinical ADHD" people between genetic ADHD, environmentally-caused ADHD (i.e. lead exposure), and inattentive (not ADHD, some other kind of disorder).