Mate, I bumped into this video and I have to say, saying your not an expert doesn’t excuse your lack of research! For starters the ecotec and alloytec are two very different engines, One is set up as a low speed torque engine , cylinder heads, manifolding and camshaft. Where as the alloytec, has 4 valves, quad cams and electronic fly by wire throttle control ( factory torque management ) We have in this house hold, a vf v6, a vy v6, vy v8, a vz v6 and a vf series 2 3 ltr v6. Be it that I am the mechanic of the family, with many years of performance engine reconditioning and engine dyno tuning. And that a regularly repair, tune, maintain all these commodores, I can tell you, the vt and the vy out of the lights are the quicker vechiles But the vz and vf once into the revs will blow both vf and vy away . Now the vz is my personal car, it’s a 175kw executive auto wagon with a 3.08 diff. As purchased was very lazy to the throttle and didn’t get going until way past 3000 rpm but once going was a rocket. After buying Hp Tuner software /obd2 device, and many hours logging what the car was doing, commanded and actual throttle blade Openings, it was clear, that Holden was holding the car back, A LOT! Having limited control in the software of this torque and throttle control, I brought a throttle controller unit, and that is the single best mode you could do to any vz or ve v6 commodore. Just be careful , as when set to level 10 or above on the throttle controller, you will understand why Holden did the torque management the way they did it, just like how they hobbled down the ls1 v8. I can say after fitting a K@n filter, modified the stock air snorkel via the a larger opening in the rad cover and a much larger 3 inch heat gun modded pvc pipe to fit. Plus the removal of the factory cats and fitting towing 100 cell free flowing cats and a much freer flowing exhaust The throttle controller and re mapping the efi for correct mixtures, My engine now makes 215kws and issue by side with the ls1 vy, from a standing start, the vz is just gone, as long as I have traction. Roll on on the free way from 90klm, again the vz leaves the ls1 in its wake ( factory stock ls1 vy auto 225 kw with cat back exhaust) The dramas with the alloy tec are timing chains, made an issue by sloppy servicing, too long between services, neglect and that leads to the right side pcv valve becoming blocked, causing driver side cam sensor seals to leak, eventually oil gumming becomes bad due to this blocked pcv valve and the timing chains get cover in crud, this limits the oil lubrication and the chains then run dry and hot, this leads to stretching. Just keep in mind the service interval is 100,000 klms for timing chain replacement , my vz made it to 270,000klm , and it was only start up rattle that became annoying to warrant changing them. Keep in mind every engine with chains , need to be replaced as some time in there life, no different to the many neglected timing belt cars That where never maintained , broke a belt , bent the exhaust and or in,et valves, to then be told by the customer he wished he had timing chains……………. Yet it was purely neglect that was the issue, same with the commodore, quad cams, 24 valves, it’s going to need maintenance . As for power having had the vt ,vy, vz on a chassis dyno, the stock vz made 25 kw more than the vy v6. Again at the traffic lights the vy wins over a stock vz, look up some dyno graphs for the ecotec and alloy tec, it should be clear where each engine makes peak torque and that should show why the ecotec pulls a bit quicker out of the lights. If I was pulling a trailer , boat or caravan, it be a stock ecotec over a stock alloytec. But all you need to do is fit a throttle controller and set that to level 5 and then the alloytec wins hands down. The variable inlet cam does it job well, it was just Holden hobbling the engine with excessive torque management . My mods, so far owe me $1600 and I brought the car for $2000 with noisey chains ( add $600 for timing chain kit, gaskets, oil pump) At $4200 I have a lot of car, the vz v6 seem to be un wanted and plenty full due to the false beliefs the engines are bad. Great, means I will have many options in the future , for what is a great car and engine. Go see what Cadillac doesn’t with two turbos on this engine or what this engine made in the Camaro . Now this is just my view, from a guy who started in the performance engine world almost 35 years ago. I had a over head cam, timing chain, turbo and fuel injected 1.8 ltr Datsun 1600 when I was in my 20s . I thought back then that pushrods and rockers where out dated, I guess some gears can not get there head around technology. I know the Harley guys hated the Porsche designed quad cam Harley engine, it nearly sent Harley broke! Yet the Japanese bikes and there tech are widely loved by millions of people
Thankyou very much for taking the time to write all that. There is a lot of very useful information there. I think I will invest in a throttle controller for my VZ after reading your comments. Thankyou again.
I have a 2010 VE Calais and that’s got Holdens SIDI 3.6L LLT Engine, In my opinion the engines are a great engine and the timing chain issue just becomes a part of owning a VE, I got recommended to change my oil at 7,500-10,000ks and I shouldn’t have the stretched chains. Also great channel and I left a sub!
Thanks for your comment. Your right I change my oil every 5000km,s and have had no dramas. Apparently you have to keep the oil level up to if it gets low the chains get hot.
Yeah me n my mate had a race he had the alloytech in his ve and i had the ecotech in my vy balina funny enough we both were nose to nose we had the rolling start was a really good stretch of highway not much cars mind u it was really late cause we had just been fishing that night but yes nose to nose and I was slowly creeping past him n yeah i vouch for ecotech, really simple engine to work on soon as i got my car tho i made sure i flushed everything out change oil,oil filter change the coolant i made sure she was fully service i haven't had one hiccup apart from the fuel filter which i mistakenly missed after I did my service on her but after that she was golden i loved my vy so much most reliable car I've owned now she is in someone else's hand but i will buy me another one really soon. And ls1s are good if people stop beating on them so much they're really reliable engines too my dad owns a vu ss ute with the ls1 he doesn't thrash around on it just cruises it suck thing is it's a auto i love manual always have always will.
Had a 2005 standard vz ute. Was a good ute but after 240xxx it needed new timing chain. Was great to drive smooth gear changes (auto) and no real complaints. Frequent oil changes are a must as you say. I now own a 2003 vy storm ute which I've had for a while and given me no grief at all. It gets an Oil and filter change every 5000-7000 ks. Power wise I didn't notice much difference at all. I have to say the vy storm ute handles much better than the standard vz. It's a joy to drive and reliable. And you can do things like change the spark plugs without pulling things to bits to find them! ECO Tech wins. From 5 years plus experience between the two. Also the vy has now done 280xxx and is still crisp and responsive to drive.
Hi, thanks for your comments. You sound just like me, my ADVENTRA is great to drive and the five speed Auto works well but my favourite is always my red vy five speed ute.
NIce VId. The intake spacer works well as it cools the intake and plenum. Lengthening the intake runners is often beneficial. The plenum spacer I haven't installed before. Overbored Throttle definitely needs a tune.
The main problem with the Alloytec, given their propensity to use oil, was the factory service interval of 15K km; which is waaay too high, even for synthetic oil and particularly for stop-start, short distance city driving. Change the oil on one of these Ecotecs that have done 15K km or so & you'll usually see big gloops of sludge plopping out of the oil-pan drain hole; look on the underside of the oil filler-cap and there'll usually be a build-up of sludge (often milky) on it. Any modern high-interference engine with twin overhead chain-driven camshafts and VVT cam phasers (particularly where it also has a poorly-designed PCV system resulting in poor crankcase ventilation and a tendency to build sludge deposits) needs clean, young oil at all times in order to function properly, otherwise things will go horribly wrong. I religiously change the oil on all my engines (pushrod or OHC, doesn't matter) at 6K km and have never had an issue related to sludging or oil starvation.
Easiest way to tell a hp 190kw alloytec against standard engine is to look behind the ecu. Two cam actuators is hp motor, one is standard motor. Actuators are basically a solenoid that sprays oil against cam and changes the timing. Vtec. Also 190kw hp motors have a black inlet manifold. Inside that has flaps that open. The difference is amazing.
I believe the internals in the Alloytec (besides the timing chain) are WAY stronger than the Ecotec. Alloytec loves to get revved out as opposed to the Ecotec. On a healthy Alloytec with cams and heavy duty valve springs, it can rev past 8k all day
My 2002 VU series 2 S has 388000 duel fuel and still going strong. Penrite full synthetic oil change between 5k and 10k. Unfortunately it has a few tiny oil leaks now. And I run a cooler thermostat in it. 82 degrees Celsius I think, because it gets hot here in Qld
Sounds good Rod, I love the utes as you can see. You do oil changes as regular as I do. Don't worry about oil leaks I changed the rear seal in my red ute twice and it still leaks.
vz alloytec ex police. only issue O2 sensor. 06 model and only 175000kms. goes awesome with the pacemakers and redback 2.5k exhaust. Feels like it has power band. It's louder than any ss non modified. NO timing chain issues. Regular services are the key. Oh, it also has lsd and fe2. Paid 3.5k before mods. Bargain!
ive got a 2004 VZ S pack ute with 330,000 on the clock, havent had to do any chains at all. only thing ive done is the water pump, drilled out that stupid pcv valve and regularly serviced it.
hey mate, can you tell me exactly what was the ECU you got from Mase, i have a Vu ute series 2 auto with dual fuel and was thinking about the same, do i have to change the whole ECU box or just the PCM in that model ? Cheers
Hi Rod yeh when you go on their website you have to search for the upgraded ECU and then download a form telling them what mods you have done or none at all, in your case has and petrol then they make up a moded ECU and send it to you. I.ll have a look later and see if I can send you a link.
@@mwoods2062 Thats ok by me. Cannot f/*&ing tolerate Dodgy electronics though. Anything built after '97, be prepared to hard reboot coz of some bullshit sensor malfunction ,sending vehicle into limp-dick mode in peak hour traffic Safe and reliable my ass. Ecotec rules.🖐
Mate, I bumped into this video and I have to say, saying your not an expert doesn’t excuse your lack of research!
For starters the ecotec and alloytec are two very different engines,
One is set up as a low speed torque engine , cylinder heads, manifolding and camshaft.
Where as the alloytec, has 4 valves, quad cams and electronic fly by wire throttle control ( factory torque management )
We have in this house hold, a vf v6, a vy v6, vy v8, a vz v6 and a vf series 2 3 ltr v6.
Be it that I am the mechanic of the family, with many years of performance engine reconditioning and engine dyno tuning.
And that a regularly repair, tune, maintain all these commodores, I can tell you, the vt and the vy out of the lights are the quicker vechiles
But the vz and vf once into the revs will blow both vf and vy away .
Now the vz is my personal car, it’s a 175kw executive auto wagon with a 3.08 diff.
As purchased was very lazy to the throttle and didn’t get going until way past 3000 rpm but once going was a rocket.
After buying Hp Tuner software /obd2 device, and many hours logging what the car was doing, commanded and actual throttle blade
Openings, it was clear, that Holden was holding the car back, A LOT! Having limited control in the software of this torque and throttle control, I brought a throttle controller unit, and that is the single best mode you could do to any vz or ve v6 commodore.
Just be careful , as when set to level 10 or above on the throttle controller, you will understand why Holden did the torque management the way they did it, just like how they hobbled down the ls1 v8.
I can say after fitting a K@n filter, modified the stock air snorkel via the a larger opening in the rad cover and a much larger 3 inch heat gun modded pvc pipe to fit. Plus the removal of the factory cats and fitting towing 100 cell free flowing cats and a much freer flowing exhaust
The throttle controller and re mapping the efi for correct mixtures,
My engine now makes 215kws and issue by side with the ls1 vy, from a standing start, the vz is just gone, as long as I have traction.
Roll on on the free way from 90klm, again the vz leaves the ls1 in its wake ( factory stock ls1 vy auto 225 kw with cat back exhaust)
The dramas with the alloy tec are timing chains, made an issue by sloppy servicing, too long between services, neglect and that leads to the right side pcv valve becoming blocked, causing driver side cam sensor seals to leak, eventually oil gumming becomes bad due to this blocked pcv valve and the timing chains get cover in crud, this limits the oil lubrication and the chains then run dry and hot, this leads to stretching. Just keep in mind the service interval is 100,000 klms for timing chain replacement , my vz made it to 270,000klm , and it was only start up rattle that became annoying to warrant changing them.
Keep in mind every engine with chains , need to be replaced as some time in there life, no different to the many neglected timing belt cars
That where never maintained , broke a belt , bent the exhaust and or in,et valves, to then be told by the customer he wished he had timing chains……………. Yet it was purely neglect that was the issue, same with the commodore, quad cams, 24 valves, it’s going to need maintenance .
As for power having had the vt ,vy, vz on a chassis dyno, the stock vz made 25 kw more than the vy v6.
Again at the traffic lights the vy wins over a stock vz, look up some dyno graphs for the ecotec and alloy tec, it should be clear where each engine makes peak torque and that should show why the ecotec pulls a bit quicker out of the lights.
If I was pulling a trailer , boat or caravan, it be a stock ecotec over a stock alloytec.
But all you need to do is fit a throttle controller and set that to level 5 and then the alloytec wins hands down.
The variable inlet cam does it job well, it was just Holden hobbling the engine with excessive torque management .
My mods, so far owe me $1600 and I brought the car for $2000 with noisey chains ( add $600 for timing chain kit, gaskets, oil pump)
At $4200 I have a lot of car, the vz v6 seem to be un wanted and plenty full due to the false beliefs the engines are bad.
Great, means I will have many options in the future , for what is a great car and engine. Go see what Cadillac doesn’t with two turbos on this engine or what this engine made in the Camaro .
Now this is just my view, from a guy who started in the performance engine world almost 35 years ago.
I had a over head cam, timing chain, turbo and fuel injected 1.8 ltr Datsun 1600 when I was in my 20s .
I thought back then that pushrods and rockers where out dated, I guess some gears can not get there head around technology.
I know the Harley guys hated the Porsche designed quad cam Harley engine, it nearly sent Harley broke!
Yet the Japanese bikes and there tech are widely loved by millions of people
Thankyou very much for taking the time to write all that. There is a lot of very useful information there. I think I will invest in a throttle controller for my VZ after reading your comments. Thankyou again.
Thanks mate. This Channels vids look like they could be huge. Well done.
Thanks for your comment, I hope they help someone.
I have a 2010 VE Calais and that’s got Holdens SIDI 3.6L LLT Engine, In my opinion the engines are a great engine and the timing chain issue just becomes a part of owning a VE, I got recommended to change my oil at 7,500-10,000ks and I shouldn’t have the stretched chains. Also great channel and I left a sub!
Thanks for your comment. Your right I change my oil every 5000km,s and have had no dramas. Apparently you have to keep the oil level up to if it gets low the chains get hot.
Agree, VE are a great car..... shithouse to work on tho
Yeah me n my mate had a race he had the alloytech in his ve and i had the ecotech in my vy balina funny enough we both were nose to nose we had the rolling start was a really good stretch of highway not much cars mind u it was really late cause we had just been fishing that night but yes nose to nose and I was slowly creeping past him n yeah i vouch for ecotech, really simple engine to work on soon as i got my car tho i made sure i flushed everything out change oil,oil filter change the coolant i made sure she was fully service i haven't had one hiccup apart from the fuel filter which i mistakenly missed after I did my service on her but after that she was golden i loved my vy so much most reliable car I've owned now she is in someone else's hand but i will buy me another one really soon. And ls1s are good if people stop beating on them so much they're really reliable engines too my dad owns a vu ss ute with the ls1 he doesn't thrash around on it just cruises it suck thing is it's a auto i love manual always have always will.
Thanks mate this vids a big help for a young bloke like me
Thankyou for your comment. I,m glad it helped.
Had a 2005 standard vz ute. Was a good ute but after 240xxx it needed new timing chain. Was great to drive smooth gear changes (auto) and no real complaints. Frequent oil changes are a must as you say. I now own a 2003 vy storm ute which I've had for a while and given me no grief at all. It gets an Oil and filter change every 5000-7000 ks. Power wise I didn't notice much difference at all. I have to say the vy storm ute handles much better than the standard vz. It's a joy to drive and reliable. And you can do things like change the spark plugs without pulling things to bits to find them! ECO Tech wins. From 5 years plus experience between the two. Also the vy has now done 280xxx and is still crisp and responsive to drive.
Hi, thanks for your comments. You sound just like me, my ADVENTRA is great to drive and the five speed Auto works well but my favourite is always my red vy five speed ute.
NIce VId. The intake spacer works well as it cools the intake and plenum. Lengthening the intake runners is often beneficial. The plenum spacer I haven't installed before. Overbored Throttle definitely needs a tune.
Thanks for the info, some people say they do nothing but they must have some benefit .
The main problem with the Alloytec, given their propensity to use oil, was the factory service interval of 15K km; which is waaay too high, even for synthetic oil and particularly for stop-start, short distance city driving. Change the oil on one of these Ecotecs that have done 15K km or so & you'll usually see big gloops of sludge plopping out of the oil-pan drain hole; look on the underside of the oil filler-cap and there'll usually be a build-up of sludge (often milky) on it. Any modern high-interference engine with twin overhead chain-driven camshafts and VVT cam phasers (particularly where it also has a poorly-designed PCV system resulting in poor crankcase ventilation and a tendency to build sludge deposits) needs clean, young oil at all times in order to function properly, otherwise things will go horribly wrong. I religiously change the oil on all my engines (pushrod or OHC, doesn't matter) at 6K km and have never had an issue related to sludging or oil starvation.
Thankyou very much for your comments. I agree 100 percent. I do the same every 5000kms and have never had a problem.
Easiest way to tell a hp 190kw alloytec against standard engine is to look behind the ecu. Two cam actuators is hp motor, one is standard motor. Actuators are basically a solenoid that sprays oil against cam and changes the timing. Vtec. Also 190kw hp motors have a black inlet manifold. Inside that has flaps that open. The difference is amazing.
Thanks mate, I only just recently found out about the cam actuators.
Good advice my vz has a oil change every 5000k not an issue over the last 5 years.
Thanks Wayne
Good info Mick
Thanks mad mick.
I believe the internals in the Alloytec (besides the timing chain) are WAY stronger than the Ecotec. Alloytec loves to get revved out as opposed to the Ecotec.
On a healthy Alloytec with cams and heavy duty valve springs, it can rev past 8k all day
Thanks Anthony, I think your right on the money
My 2002 VU series 2 S has 388000 duel fuel and still going strong. Penrite full synthetic oil change between 5k and 10k. Unfortunately it has a few tiny oil leaks now. And I run a cooler thermostat in it. 82 degrees Celsius I think, because it gets hot here in Qld
Sounds good Rod, I love the utes as you can see. You do oil changes as regular as I do. Don't worry about oil leaks I changed the rear seal in my red ute twice and it still leaks.
vz alloytec ex police. only issue O2 sensor. 06 model and only 175000kms. goes awesome with the pacemakers and redback 2.5k exhaust. Feels like it has power band. It's louder than any ss non modified. NO timing chain issues. Regular services are the key. Oh, it also has lsd and fe2. Paid 3.5k before mods. Bargain!
Sounds good Leigh, how much difference do you think the pacemakers and exhaust made.
ive got a 2004 VZ S pack ute with 330,000 on the clock, havent had to do any chains at all. only thing ive done is the water pump, drilled out that stupid pcv valve and regularly serviced it.
That sounds like you're done everything right, thanks for your comments and keep that VZ going
hey mate, can you tell me exactly what was the ECU you got from Mase, i have a Vu ute series 2 auto with dual fuel and was thinking about the same, do i have to change the whole ECU box or just the PCM in that model ? Cheers
Hi Rod yeh when you go on their website you have to search for the upgraded ECU and then download a form telling them what mods you have done or none at all, in your case has and petrol then they make up a moded ECU and send it to you. I.ll have a look later and see if I can send you a link.
www.maceengineering.com.au/epages/mace.sf/en_AU/?ObjectID=1166645&ViewAction=FacetedSearchProducts&SearchString=Vu+ecu
08-09 sv6 with fresh chains is the best ve they did that is obtainable, there bloody awesome has you’re 190 in her and goes way hard
Yes I have to agree, my car is going really well.
2 bonnet up , roadside incidents in 500 000 ks
1 .coil module (yeah the plate)
2 .dead fuel pump.
Ecotec rules.
Yeh they don't give any warning do they.
@@mwoods2062
Thats ok by me.
Cannot f/*&ing tolerate
Dodgy electronics though.
Anything built after '97, be prepared to hard reboot coz of some bullshit sensor malfunction ,sending vehicle into limp-dick mode in peak hour traffic
Safe and reliable my ass.
Ecotec rules.🖐
i love my alloytec 15-16 year old runs strong as lion 0 problems
Yep if you maintain them they go very well. Mine has been good.
Hehe. The 190KW📈 is at 16000rpm :-) (its in the small print)
Yeh I think your right.
Vy ECU upgrade
www.maceengineering.com.au/epages/mace.sf/en_AU/?ObjectID=1166645&ViewAction=FacetedSearchProducts&SearchString=Vu+ecu