I can remember many times in my life from when I was a kid when I’d look at something and it would appear flat. It would only be for a few seconds but it was very noticeable. I would blink a time or two and it would look normal again. It’s disorienting for sure.
No, a simple way of saying it is that the first shift is realizing you are not the mind. The last (as far as the person) is realizing you are not the body/form (7) which leads into you are not (8).
Interviews with Kevin and material on the 10 fetters in general can be real hard to find... So deeply grateful for this series, Angelo! I'd truly love to hear his take on breaking the first 3 fetters as well...
The part about habits was great. That’s exactly how I overcame the binge/purge cycle when I had an eating disorder. This was years ago, but somehow I figured out that when I noticed the urge I could actually sit with it and it would eventually pass. For a while the urge was super intense and very hard to sit with, but eventually it loosened and became a lot more bearable.
Yes, spot on, I’m going through a similar experience When you sit with it, then it has nowhere to go, you sort of cornered it The urge itself is a wanting of not having that urge, it wants to eliminate itself, but the good thing is that present moment is a constant elimination in of itself, love it
There is definitely still a subject/ object experience when I try this exercise. Looking within to try and find the experiencer there is none, but a sensation arises in my upper chest area going towards my throat, its a felt sense. I'm looking at an object and this is what happens during this inquiry. The object is still out there and I'm the most important! I realize this will take time and practice for the rewiring to occur, the willingness is there. Thank you both very much for this important material.
Amazing talk! It would be awesome if he made a UA-cam channel and once in a while posting all kinds of exercises to break the fetters. This model is awesome no doubt about it. But I don't think it's for everyone, definitely not for me. I have been doing the first fetter for 2 years, for a very long time everyday, and no shift would happen. So I just gave up on it
I am not convinced there isn’t value in this protocol even if fetter one is in place. Something much like this has been suggested in some arenas where they have no idea of no self.
Doing self inquiry without developing concentration through meditation and without working on morality is not that helpful. If anyone disagrees mind you I have been meditating for 15+ years and if you have any good progress it would be ridiculous to disagree because you know this through experience.
Are you following these 10 fetters? Ten Fetters 1. Self-illusion (self-identity views; belief in personality) 2. Scepticism (uncertainty) 3. Attachment to rules and rituals (grasping at precepts and practices) 4. Sensual lust (craving) 5. Ill-will 6. Craving for fine-corporeal or material existence (passion for form) 7. Craving for incorporeal existence (passion for what is formless) 8. Conceit 9. Restlessness 10. Ignorance The ten fetters that bind us to the cycle of birth and death are listed as follows in the Pali canon (from the Anguttara Nikaya (AN 10.13): “Sanyojana Sutta - Fetters.”): “There are these ten fetters. Which ten? Five lower fetters and five higher fetters. And which are the five lower fetters? Self-identity views, uncertainty, grasping at precepts and practices, sensual desire, and ill will. These are the five lower fetters. And which are the five higher fetters? Passion for form, passion for what is formless, conceit, restlessness, and ignorance. These are the five higher fetters. And these are the ten fetters.”
I had an experience of simultaneous infinite depth and 2 dimensional vision while riding a bike down an extremely straight bike path, but only for a couple minutes total. I'm assuming this is a taste of what's being pointed to?
8:20 sixth fetter discussion begins 19:50 turning towards exercise 33:24 summary of investigation steps 35:37 staying out exercise 41:11 staying in the gap
Think I'll stop at this one for a while. I never really understood the subject/object thing. It does seem to explain the spear/pole that stabs me right where Kevin points. And listening to him it seemed to dissipate quicker than usual. It's odd to be the stabber and the stabbed. Thank you both. 🙏
When working on the 6th fetter, don't jump ahead 44:37 . You might notice that there is no subjective pole, but then 10 minutes later there is one. So don't bypass and tell yourself there is no subject...... these comments are notes for me at parts that resonated. These aren't my words, merely stating what was said in the video.
Thank you both for making this available publically. I'm finding this Fetter work approach very helpful. A tangible approach systemised and handleable- Very very useful to the modern human mind! Certainly the 'chunking up' in this manner toward the a more 'complete' dissolution of more tenacious aspects of the illusion of a self is hugely helpful in areas where more standard meditative approaches hasnt been able to dissolve in everyday life, off the cushion so to speak. Gritty, and uncomfortable work much needed in my case, so really, Thank you!
Hi, I’ve been looking daily since the first video download. There was a fetters 4&5 listed for a minute. When I went there it was actually the first again. Then that disappeared. Now I still don’t see 4&5. Just the first and now this , 6th fetter. Am I missing something? I also don’t see previous video linked in description 🤷🏼♀️ Thanks 🙏🏻
There are only two videos so far and both of them are in the playlist “fetters with Kevin” the rest will be there when they are recorded. Thx for reminding me to link the last one.
Having read the descriptions of all ten fetters on the website, they are rather hard core. It struck me that, even if one does not intend to take that approach, it does give an excellent illustration of a method derived from Buddhist teachings. That can be useful when practicing simple, self inquiry as it fills in a few blanks conceptually. Although, simple is fine, too. Whatever floats your boat to the other shore..
I think I need a written version of this lol. I've had that flat 2d effect with vision before. Its funny. The sky usually has that effect for me consistently. It looks fake. Flat. Wallpaper!
my life is shaken like a massive hearthquake for the past few weeks but it's the most relaxing and perfect hearthquake there could (not) be ! Thanks so much for (not) being there ! :)
Subject and object recognition happens so fast it feels hard to catch. Bit like realising ur thinking. Sometimes ur thinking and ur forgetting that's what ur even doing. Is there a time or a point were u just always know without going unconscious of this. Is that awaking?
50:13 where he gives the example of experiencing a chair, what does he really mean? Just cannot grok it, although I watched that part twenty times 😢 and I wouldn’t have made it a problem if Angelo did not appreciate the distinction that much. His response made me think that I need to grasp what was meant here.
I personally don’t resonate with this 10 fetters model. I believe things are way more fluid than this and that the unfolding of the awakening process happens differently through each mind/body mechanism and can’t be controlled or predicted in such a way.
I had a Nihilistic view 6 Months to 2 Years after a 5Meo-DMT experience , , , it was really Dark. I'm happy I went there , it seemed like a Karmic purge looking back now. At the Time it was pure horror ! Still a bit stuck in Sadness, but sometimes I remember it's Mind
Great discussion. Noticing the energetic back and forth between the assumed object and subject is so valuable in breaking the illusion that someone is here inside looking outside. It is also important not to expect any shift to happen while doing the exercise. Otherwise, we may overlook the subtlety of the exercise.
Thanks for this great series Angelo and Kevin. Just wonderful. Kevin mentioned that there are two stages to breaking the 4th and 5th fetters - 1st weakening the fetters, and then breaking them. Would it be possible to go into those two steps in a little more detail? Thanks again.
Well I would say formless non dual as we describe in this video is beyond awareness reified as a background or substratum. Depended what you mean by awareness. I think people use the term differently.
Absolutely incredible resource. Total cheat code obtained through intense research and deconstruction. Beautifully facilitated. Besides all the incredible wisdom delivered by these two regarding fetter 6, Angelo gives a masterclass in listening and responding with true grace. It is truly special to be going through this in this time and having you both pointing the way to for no one to get nowhere with such precision. Gratitude.
Thinking the word "I" is useful for shining a spotlight on a specific set of goings-on .. for defining and setting aside one set of goings-on from other sets of goings-on. Trying to think of a word useful to represent more of a floodlight .. hmmm ..
What about 1,2,3 fetters? This is the second video I’ve watched about fetters and this is wildly helpful. But where’s the first or intro to fetters? I’m new to this channel so don’t judge harshly please
Breaking this fetter made me realize that everyone (including me) has Main Character Syndrome 😅
yep
I can remember many times in my life from when I was a kid when I’d look at something and it would appear flat. It would only be for a few seconds but it was very noticeable. I would blink a time or two and it would look normal again. It’s disorienting for sure.
If the first fetter-there is a separate self that we have or are-has truly been broken, haven’t they all been broken?
No, a simple way of saying it is that the first shift is realizing you are not the mind. The last (as far as the person) is realizing you are not the body/form (7) which leads into you are not (8).
Interviews with Kevin and material on the 10 fetters in general can be real hard to find... So deeply grateful for this series, Angelo! I'd truly love to hear his take on breaking the first 3 fetters as well...
The look on this guy's face is like a permanent surprised/bemused expression
The part about habits was great. That’s exactly how I overcame the binge/purge cycle when I had an eating disorder. This was years ago, but somehow I figured out that when I noticed the urge I could actually sit with it and it would eventually pass. For a while the urge was super intense and very hard to sit with, but eventually it loosened and became a lot more bearable.
😍
Yes, spot on, I’m going through a similar experience
When you sit with it, then it has nowhere to go, you sort of cornered it
The urge itself is a wanting of not having that urge, it wants to eliminate itself, but the good thing is that present moment is a constant elimination in of itself, love it
Do the fetters always fall away in order??
not necessarily
There is definitely still a subject/ object experience when I try this exercise. Looking within to try and find the experiencer there is none, but a sensation arises in my upper chest area going towards my throat, its a felt sense. I'm looking at an object and this is what happens during this inquiry. The object is still out there and I'm the most important! I realize this will take time and practice for the rewiring to occur, the willingness is there. Thank you both very much for this important material.
Amazing talk! It would be awesome if he made a UA-cam channel and once in a while posting all kinds of exercises to break the fetters. This model is awesome no doubt about it. But I don't think it's for everyone, definitely not for me. I have been doing the first fetter for 2 years, for a very long time everyday, and no shift would happen. So I just gave up on it
I am not convinced there isn’t value in this protocol even if fetter one is in place. Something much like this has been suggested in some arenas where they have no idea of no self.
Damn that sucks. 2years of daily self inquiry and no shift 😭 ??
Doing self inquiry without developing concentration through meditation and without working on morality is not that helpful. If anyone disagrees mind you I have been meditating for 15+ years and if you have any good progress it would be ridiculous to disagree because you know this through experience.
Non-duality is growing up. 🙏❤️
Are you following these 10 fetters?
Ten Fetters
1. Self-illusion (self-identity views; belief in personality)
2. Scepticism (uncertainty)
3. Attachment to rules and rituals (grasping at precepts and practices)
4. Sensual lust (craving)
5. Ill-will
6. Craving for fine-corporeal or material existence (passion for form)
7. Craving for incorporeal existence (passion for what is formless)
8. Conceit
9. Restlessness
10. Ignorance
The ten fetters that bind us to the cycle of birth and death are listed as follows in the Pali canon (from the Anguttara Nikaya (AN 10.13): “Sanyojana Sutta - Fetters.”):
“There are these ten fetters. Which ten? Five lower fetters and five higher fetters. And which are the five lower fetters? Self-identity views, uncertainty, grasping at precepts and practices, sensual desire, and ill will. These are the five lower fetters. And which are the five higher fetters? Passion for form, passion for what is formless, conceit, restlessness, and ignorance. These are the five higher fetters. And these are the ten fetters.”
"neurologically dysfunctional " stabbed me in the heart!!
I'm only dysfunctional because the world is run by neurotypicals.
noun
plural noun: fetters
a chain or manacle used to restrain a prisoner, typically placed around the ankles.
"he lay bound with fetters of iron"
‘ I was something like everything else’
I had an experience of simultaneous infinite depth and 2 dimensional vision while riding a bike down an extremely straight bike path, but only for a couple minutes total. I'm assuming this is a taste of what's being pointed to?
That's what it feels like when there is no subject-object illusion
8:20 sixth fetter discussion begins
19:50 turning towards exercise
33:24 summary of investigation steps
35:37 staying out exercise
41:11 staying in the gap
Think I'll stop at this one for a while. I never really understood the subject/object thing. It does seem to explain the spear/pole that stabs me right where Kevin points. And listening to him it seemed to dissipate quicker than usual.
It's odd to be the stabber and the stabbed.
Thank you both. 🙏
This is what has been happening here for a while now naturally and it’s so helpful to. Hear you explain it so clearly. Thanks so much.❤
Turning toward exercise... when an object becomes an object and I become a subject 19:51
When working on the 6th fetter, don't jump ahead 44:37 . You might notice that there is no subjective pole, but then 10 minutes later there is one. So don't bypass and tell yourself there is no subject...... these comments are notes for me at parts that resonated. These aren't my words, merely stating what was said in the video.
Kevin's website is really great. Would love to also see an interview more focused on the first 3 fetters. Thanks!
Thinking Todd rungren and Utopia... "Underneath it all... We are here together" from "Just One Victory"
My furbaby is suffering. I know choosing to suffer in reaction just causes more suffering but how do I be with this?
Hi Angelo please can you put the link to the previous one which you’ve suggested to watch first. Many thanks! ♥️
This is outstanding. Thank you for doing this. Reading his work AND hearing him discuss brings so much more light. He is a joy
😊
Thank you both for making this available publically. I'm finding this Fetter work approach very helpful. A tangible approach systemised and handleable- Very very useful to the modern human mind!
Certainly the 'chunking up' in this manner toward the a more 'complete' dissolution of more tenacious aspects of the illusion of a self is hugely helpful in areas where more standard meditative approaches hasnt been able to dissolve in everyday life, off the cushion so to speak.
Gritty, and uncomfortable work much needed in my case, so really, Thank you!
Hi, I’ve been looking daily since the first video download. There was a fetters 4&5 listed for a minute. When I went there it was actually the first again. Then that disappeared. Now I still don’t see 4&5. Just the first and now this , 6th fetter. Am I missing something?
I also don’t see previous video linked in description 🤷🏼♀️
Thanks 🙏🏻
There are only two videos so far and both of them are in the playlist “fetters with Kevin” the rest will be there when they are recorded. Thx for reminding me to link the last one.
This is soooo helpful!!! Exactly what I was fumbling to see into but without much luck. Wow, huge thanks to you two!!!🥰
I watched the first one twice. Really amazing.
When I look at object I see a shadow around it , to describe, it's like and aura,I look up to the sky when relaxing and see particles all around..
Having read the descriptions of all ten fetters on the website, they are rather hard core. It struck me that, even if one does not intend to take that approach, it does give an excellent illustration of a method derived from Buddhist teachings. That can be useful when practicing simple, self inquiry as it fills in a few blanks conceptually. Although, simple is fine, too. Whatever floats your boat to the other shore..
I like that "what am I shuttling back to?"
I think I need a written version of this lol. I've had that flat 2d effect with vision before. Its funny. The sky usually has that effect for me consistently. It looks fake. Flat. Wallpaper!
my life is shaken like a massive hearthquake for the past few weeks but it's the most relaxing and perfect hearthquake there could (not) be ! Thanks so much for (not) being there ! :)
Subject and object recognition happens so fast it feels hard to catch. Bit like realising ur thinking. Sometimes ur thinking and ur forgetting that's what ur even doing.
Is there a time or a point were u just always know without going unconscious of this. Is that awaking?
50:13 where he gives the example of experiencing a chair, what does he really mean? Just cannot grok it, although I watched that part twenty times 😢 and I wouldn’t have made it a problem if Angelo did not appreciate the distinction that much. His response made me think that I need to grasp what was meant here.
Not about grasping or understanding it has to be immediate , direct (not apart in any way)
Thank you!@@SimplyAlwaysAwake This makes much more sense now, especially after watching your latest video about immediacy. 🙏🙏
I personally don’t resonate with this 10 fetters model. I believe things are way more fluid than this and that the unfolding of the awakening process happens differently through each mind/body mechanism and can’t be controlled or predicted in such a way.
It's definitely not for everyone
Really enjoying the presentation of these additional techniques; lovely vibe this man has😊
Glad you enjoy it!
I had a Nihilistic view 6 Months to 2 Years after a 5Meo-DMT experience , , , it was really Dark.
I'm happy I went there , it seemed like a Karmic purge looking back now.
At the Time it was pure horror ! Still a bit stuck in Sadness, but sometimes I remember it's Mind
Why then should we go beyond the fifth 😅 looks like suffering kind of quiet down at fifth stage, stopping here sounds reasonable 😊 to me
Totally fine, yes
Thank you!!!
Ty Kevin for the periphery exercise!!
Thank you Kevin and Angelo! These really are great instructions.
Great discussion. Noticing the energetic back and forth between the assumed object and subject is so valuable in breaking the illusion that someone is here inside looking outside. It is also important not to expect any shift to happen while doing the exercise. Otherwise, we may overlook the subtlety of the exercise.
You are so authentic. All the things you said about Harry Mack leaving his mark and spreading love?-turn that back around to yourself. ❤️
Thanks for this great series Angelo and Kevin. Just wonderful. Kevin mentioned that there are two stages to breaking the 4th and 5th fetters - 1st weakening the fetters, and then breaking them. Would it be possible to go into those two steps in a little more detail? Thanks again.
Actually, no need. I just found excellent descriptions of these two steps of breaking the 4th and 5th on Kevin's web site. Thanks Kevin!
awesome!! this is even better than the last one x)
❤❤❤
There's something beyond Awareness? The unconscious mind/emotions. The body doesn't lie the mind does.
Well I would say formless non dual as we describe in this video is beyond awareness reified as a background or substratum. Depended what you mean by awareness. I think people use the term differently.
So clear ! sooo helpful ! 👌Thank you 💜
You're so welcome!
Absolutely incredible resource. Total cheat code obtained through intense research and deconstruction. Beautifully facilitated. Besides all the incredible wisdom delivered by these two regarding fetter 6, Angelo gives a masterclass in listening and responding with true grace. It is truly special to be going through this in this time and having you both pointing the way to for no one to get nowhere with such precision. Gratitude.
I love what was expressed here. Yes it's a priceless resource. Big gratitude to Angelo and Kevin.
Thank you both of you! Side note - the three video thumbnails with the rainbow colours 🌈 are beautifully in sync.
Back again 😂
Amazing
This is awesome. Thank you.
You're very welcome!
Hello Angelo. Can you point me towards the video that this short is taken from? Thank you 🧡
Thinking the word "I" is useful for shining a spotlight on a specific set of goings-on .. for defining and setting aside one set of goings-on from other sets of goings-on.
Trying to think of a word useful to represent more of a floodlight .. hmmm ..
funny, that it took me 57 years too to notice with Kevin’s help that we do this Radar thing with the surroundings 😅
Living every day normally while understanding everything goes together ..
What about 1,2,3 fetters? This is the second video I’ve watched about fetters and this is wildly helpful. But where’s the first or intro to fetters? I’m new to this channel so don’t judge harshly please
My book and the playlist awakening approaches are all geared toward first awakening
I’m too very grateful for these videos/teachings/exercises with Kevin.
Thanks for it and for sharing it
🙏❤️
Glad you like them!
Liking! Thank you!