Why Isn't Asus ROG Ally Faster Than Xbox Series S When Specs Are 'Better'?
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- Опубліковано 10 тра 2024
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Rog ally is basically the laptop version of the series s
With less optimisation in games but
So basically the series s is the console version of the Rog ally..🤔
Warps/Schedulers, its just too narrow.
The Z1E is only 12CUs vs the 20CUs of the Series S. So it has 384 Warps and only 24 Schedulers vs 640 warps and 40 schedulers in Seires S
Z1E is so narrow it cant really take advantage of LPDDR5X at 120GB/s in devices like the Legion Go (9 times out of 10, ROG Ally outperforms it despite having 20GB/s less bandwidth)
You can clock a narrow GPU as high as you want, but once you "Redline" all the warps and schedulers you will get hit **hard** by inner-operation stalling.
RDNA on Desktop mitigated this via Infinity Cache, it's why the 6400 performs so much better than the 680/780M despite being 12CU and having a similar 100-120GB/s bandwidth. Infinity cahce minimizes the stalling allowing it to get closer to maximum theoretical performance.
Well explained
Asus Ally bandwith is 102.4 GB/s. It use 128-bit LPDDR5 6400
LPDDR5X 7500 will give you 120GB/s which is still way lower than 224 GB/s on Series S
@@killermoon635 that's not the point. The point is the Legion Go falling behind ROG Ally or at best matching it indicates the extra bandwidth isn't doing much of anything. Which is my point about how Warps/Schedulers/Width is the underlying cause. Not bandwidth
You know nothing about what you speak of and should return to shitposting on /tech
If there was a limit to clock speed scaling due to not being able to schedule additional work, we would see it on all PC desktop GPUs, since the Ally will be running below desktop clock speeds. Your response will probably be that RDNA 2 desktop GPUs have Infinity Cache to compensate. However even on RDNA 1 (5700 XT) we see linear scaling with overclocking, at speeds that are similar to what the Ally is running. And we can look at the consoles where the much narrower but higher clocked PS5 is able to equal the wider but lower clocked XSX in many cases. (Despite neither console having Infinity Cache)
I think the strongest argument against this hypothesis though is the fact that the Z1 (non-Extreme) has a 1/3 CUs of the Z1E yet delivers around 60% of its performance in the worst case. If the Z1 CUs are already at their "limit" then they shouldn't be able to gain any more performance when you allow more power headroom (by spreading the power budget over less CUs).
Asus Ally use 128-bit LPDDR5 6400 which give you 102.4 GB/s bandwith
Series S using 128-bit bus and GDDR6 at 14Gbps which give you 224 GB/s bandwith. More than 2x of Asus Ally
However, it is worth to mention that 8GB out of 10GB that series s have runs at 224 GB/s bandwidth... The remaining 2GB has 56GB/s bandwidth, but 90% of that 2GB is used by system OS anyway (not games)
To add more to your comment, the CPU will take a chunk of the bandwidth, this means that if the CPU takes for example 30 GB/s while gaming, than the effective GPU bandwidth will be 72 GB/s for the Ally and 194 for the Series S, that's a 2.6x advantage for the Series S.
To be fair lppdr5 latency compared to gddr6 helps a lot (as well as gddr6 low reading speed), it likely still looses on that regard, but the gap is way smaller and shouldn't be the bandwidth the issue
Series S is a well designed console. If the internet wasn't comparison obsessed it could be appreciated.
Well said 👏
Its not even about the comparisons, series s has so little memory its literally forcing developers to design games like they are made for last gen, 10 gb just isnt enough memory to design games that are actually next gen thats less memory than the one x, a last gen console, thats literally why the entire generation is so fucked and lacking any notable improvements besides loading speeds.
@markedone494 The only thing it would really affect would be the fidiliety of the graphics. Most that memory goes to video memory. Game play logic *typically* doesn't take up huge amounts of memory. Developers could do plenty if they were creative and skilled enough. Tears of the Kingdom runs on 3GB of memory total, and is one of the best selling/critically praised games of the last couple years.
You really don't know what you're talking about.
@@markedone494you have no idea what you are talking about genuinely embarrassing, never speak on this topic again you got schooled
@@markedone494 they aren't designing for it, lead sku is base ps5... THEN they scale back from there to fit on lesser systems, that's why BG3 took so long to come out for xbox.
"Little Caesars tastes good af when you don't have a b*tch in your ear telling you it sucks."
-A popular quote that applies really well to the Series S.
😂
Facts
I've truly never heard this quote before, what's it from lmaoo?
Unless you had a taste of real pizza and realize what the b*tch has been saying is true. Little Caesars does suck but hey I'm not judging.
But little Caesars doesn’t even taste good? Peak cardboard pizza is still cardboard pizza.
In the last 3 year I got a Series S, a PS5 and a STEAMDECK, and to be honest, the Series S does match my expectations of performance even comparing it to the SD. Four such a small package and cost is a very powerful little conconsole.
Yep. It does well.
I'd love to see how the Switch 2 compares now with 120GB/s bandwidth and at a theoretical TFLOP range of 3-4 TFLOPS (and DLSS).
A lot better, lppdr5x latency is really low as well as likely having more memory for games (10-11gb compared to windows), as well as 20% bigger bandwidth gives way more headroom than someone would expect
If power is an issue, then wouldn't plugging a handheld into the wall "solve" this? Or is it about cooling, too, that wouldn't be able to handle higher power profiles?
Consoles still have a higher power budget, especially when the GPU in consoles are closer to discreet than integrated and also uses VRAM instead of DRAM so you'd have to push the Z1 Extreme above the Series S clock speeds to match it and within that form factor, cooling would become an issue.
Architecture of software is different.
The two cannot be compared.
Consoles have Direct Access from SSD to GPU, something not available on pc.
PC also has to split its peeformance powers with background functions of Windows.
not a hard question
battery powered vs plugged into the wall lol
Big chip vs small chip too
You can plug the handhelds which doesn't give any boost in performance, in my opinion it should but the chipset used doesn't gain any performance from shooting the tdp up, you can literally run it in 100 watt tdp and you'd only get more heat. The sweet spot for the z1e is 20 watts
@@stankozniewski9385when plugged into a wall they use way less power, the series s uses 80watts plugged in, the ally 30 watts.
Yeah the Xbox Series S can pull 70-80W or more when gaming while the handhelds are oftem limited to 10-35W max to have even a couple of hours of battery life.
@@stankozniewski9385 Yeah you can plug them in but still only get 30 35 watts doing that. So not comnparable to a plugged in series S lol.
If I take some GPU specs from techpowerup for example, and compare ROG Ally vs XSS, the Ally isn't "theoretical the same", it's slower across the board. Ally vs XSS: LPDDR5 vs GDDR6, 64bit bus vs 128bit bus, base GPU clock 1500mhz vs 1565mhz, shading units 768 vs 1280, TMUs 48 vs 80, ROPs 8 vs 32, Compute units 12 vs 20. It wins on the CPU side, but everything graphics related, the Xbox has better specs. Of course, it also draws more power. But from looking at the specs I would _assume_ the ROG Ally to be slower, which it is. So I don't understand the question.
Or maybe though 'RDNA 3 vs RDNA 2' would mean a lot, or someone started comparing on things like TFLOPS / GFLOPS again, which we should've learned by now you must never, ever do.
The ally has a 128 bus tho
Hmm has it? Most specs I see now don't , but that might still be early speculation articles that are still up or something else outdated / wrong. Still lpddr5 vs gddr6 I reckon. And I don't really believe bandwidth is that important in this form factor (seldom moment I don't 100% agree with Ollie), the shaders and computer power is less, even raw pixel fillrate is less.
Gddr6 isn't plain better than lppdr5, both have pro and cons and the first has heavy ones, ally has 128 bit bus, clocks not really comparable as ally is Zen 3 and series s Zen 2, ally has 2700mhz compared to xss 1500mhz in gpu clock to compensate, compute units is irrelevant cuz of higher clocks, udk if rops or tmus have differences within arquitectures so i'll give you those
Hi, when I asked the question I meant theoretical in terms of the raw compute power that the GPU is rated at, like Rich mentioned arou d 8tf or around 4tf if compared to the older architecture.
To be fast you have to have good cooling and you can't have good cooling in a handheld. Same thing with laptops. A laptop might say it has a 4 ghz processor but when playing games you'll get closer to 3 ghz because it can't cool the CPU good enough.
My Ally clocks a bit over 4.5
Got to see how Strix Point is doing.
Lol check the clock when playing heavy games its only 3tflops and the ram bandwidth is to low except lpddr6 save the day with 200gbps bandwidth
My ROG ally CPU beats out my Zen 3 5900x in unzipping a game in a multi gigabyte zip file by quite a margin using Winrar I noticed if I start them both unzipping at the same time.The ROG ally finishes way quicker. it also goes for installing a game I was quite suprised to get zen 4 like performance. I know it is zen 4 the ROG ally But didn't think it would out do my 12 core 5900x.
Zen 4 single CCD with very high clocks it's enough to beat 6+6 Zen 3 that's running power constrained (socket limitation)
It’s specs aren’t better, mate…
You can actually hack the legion go and ally to run at 55watts but there is barely any benefits. 20 watts is this chips sweet spot. Basically youd just be adding heat. Another thing id point out is tbe bloat that comes with windows itself, stock there is avkut 250 precesses running in the background, if you use an app like bloatynosy it will take it down to about 110 processes which gives about 30% more performance since theres more headroom.
Is it I am gonna copy this comment and look into this tomoroow. Not the 55 watts but the debloating. But not if it's xbox or gamebar co's I use that.And clipchamp.Snipping tool etc
You can deselect what you want to keep or get rid of, there's also a restore tool in bloatynosey.
Lol no not even close to 30%, couple of percent in CPU limited games at most.
i doubt it will give 30% performance
The Z1 is CPU overbalanced. Its effecient for what it is and the clocks it does ride too (5ghz+) zen4. Just waiting for Pinnicle ridge as that seems to be able to deliver 50%+ more Mem Bandwidth on the LP varaiant. Feeding the larger dedicated GPU scilicon will be a must. The Z1 and siblings is the beginning of an integrated revoltion.
Power TDP
How does Windows 11 factor into performance?
it lowers it.
Driver compatibility issues on Rog ally & Definitely windows 11 bugs.
Is like comparing an electric car with an engine car
Or a Pc vs a Console
@@chubbs6504 yes 👍
How about one is a handheld? Makes no sense
It's a shame there aren't any AMD APUs available to consumers with a comparable number of compute units and shaders to a modern console.
There will be. But I just use my PC that I built to blow my series X out the water and am happy with my steam,deck and Rog ally just as they are treally. I I want 4K ultra 120 fps I play on my PC. Only place you can get that level of performance. Least with frame generation etc.Which is more and more widespread. Even AFMF works great on My PC. had me playing jedi survivor epic settings 4k with epic RT at a smooth 120 to 160 fps. And felt consistent despite the fact it cuts out in fast motion. I hardly noticed. I have vids on my channel with it. It's awesome.
@@Steelninja77 : For all the arguing about exclusives on consoles, I think most console players choose a console for monetary reasons. A 3090 or 4090 rig is out of the question for these people, but an APU with a comparable number of compute units and shaders to modern consoles probably wouldn't be, especially if loaded up with something like Steam OS or Chimera OS.
@@Steelninja77 you realize you’re in the vast minority, right? Most people buying gaming PCs aren’t going for top-of-the-line. A strong APU would actually be very appealing to the low end market. Especially because they haven’t gotten any good low end GPU for the last two generations.
These comparisons are so pointless. I have both series and the ally. The ally is mainly a portable. As such it doesn't need the graphics power of a series s to output amazing performance 720 or 1080p. Pppl want 7 inch 8k screens lol. The ally functions fine as a pc. I can even capture ps5 gameplay on it with a elgato. My series s can't do that. Performance has truly reached a point of diminished returns. Course a 4090 smokes an ally. But at 720p on a small screen you won't see much of a difference. I think consoles will eventually die off and only portable pcs and pcs will survive. It's because of well intentioned videos like this that young ones go out and look only for the "latest and greatest" instead of enjoying the amazingness that's available today right now.
When I get a get a series S performance in a handheld with 2hr battery I'll be happy
ROG Ally: Windows with Virtualization Based Security, unnecessary services, considerable OS overhead, driver overhead, DX API overhead.
XSS: stripped down hypervisor with a stripped-down version of the Windows kernel and games on a separated container with direct, dedicated hardware access
Consoles also have specialized OS, Windows is bloated with unnecessary stuff a console does not need.
I have GPD win 4 and that thing runs the games way better than my series S
i feel like the people asking some of these questions, and the people in the comments really dont understand gaming tech, and its quite odd since they are watching digital foundry.
The 8tf figur comes from the external asus gpu . Thw pur perfomance on the gpu os slower then series s and just a little higher then the steam deck. So realisticly we see just a ps4+ not even a pro performance. And its far from series s , even with upcomming workgraph and the possibility of getting dual issue perfomance out of it.
No, the integrated 780m gpu is rated at around 8,3 tf compute, although it realistically is about half of that due to that dual compute
People honestly expect too much from the switch 2. The x elite has 5tflops but performs worse than the ally and m2,m3 in games. And the m3 has 3.6 tflops.
Honestly it seems like anything from 3.5 or above seems to be good and on par with other high end mobile chipsets. I don't think a switch 2 can beat a series s, it might get close. It is anoying though to see comments saying it is cooked cause it only has 4tflops when that is pracitcally the best you can do with current technology.
It's almost like the raw FP32 FLOPS number is a bad measurement for something as complicated as video game performance.
When i saw the Series S first announcement my face is 🤨 why they release this weak last gen hardware?
Then i forgot some people can't afford the Series X but let's make it fair it's a next gen hardware it should be 4K console even if it's digital no disc with same price as Series S, Microsoft should make evert buyer happy it's my wish! ❤
I suppose that it happens because oh Game optimization
Fact! Its good enough..it don't need to be!
You can emulate more consoles on the Ally vs the Series S/X. So theres's that.
you havent hear of reto arch in dev mode huh
Why is a laptop slower than Custom build PC even when it has better specs…? 😮😅
Its just too dang narrow. Its pretty cut and dry.
WATER COOL YOUR ALLY !!!
Becuz its a freakin handheld with only so much stuff inside it,A crazy feat of engineering if you ask me
The same reason why the Steam Deck is fast for its specs, running a custom and optimized os tailor-made for gaming. The ROG Ally running plain old Win 11 with all the bloat that comes with it, including ASUS'S terrible customer support software bloat.
There are many games which works way better on Ally than on Series S - Doom Eternal, Starfield, Baldur's Gate3...
Lol😂😂😂😂😂😂
I wouldve just said "well, you see, one is plugged into the wall and the other is expected to run off of a battery"
Because the series s is secretly a beast 😎
Where's the video on the ps5 being better performing than xbox despite on paper not being as good
where is the video "why is Sony not making and releasing a single game in 2024?"
And some people are still expecting the Switch 2 to be as powerful as a Series S… 😂🤦♂️
Yeah, they’re gunna be disappointed
We can still hope for something close tho, as Switch 2 will come with it's own dedicated OS optimized for gaming and specs that sync with it, something that most handheld pcs lack a lot due to being limited to using windows and specs that do not work well with the system
@@Polengue I think you mean “close to steam deck”, not “close to the series S” (as I mentioned on my comment). Regarding steam deck I would also expect the switch 2 to be close in some games and considerably below on others. But gaming on a 4K tv should favour the switch 2 in general
It won’t be as powerful as Rog Ally.. more like Steam Deck. Bcs Nintendo always puts cheap hardware in their consoles, not hi-end chips for portable consoles
On paper the Ally and Legion Go ( especially cpu) appears more powerful than my 7 year laptop but in games my laptop outperforms them.
Laptop name
@@oo--7714 It's Asus ROG. I don't remember the name and I don't have it with me right now. It's one of my older laptops.
In one game I tested the Ally and the laptop got close the same performance at 720p while at 1080p the performance dropped on the Ally but remain the same on my laptop. In that case CPU was the bottleneck on my laptop. At 720p what you see on paper that Ally cpu is more powerful over my laptop is revealed yet at 1080p the laptop pulled out ahead.
Makes sense, a 10 series laptop DGPU (1060 and above) is still going to be better overall.
And yup, the ally thrives at 720p and 900p. The bandwidth limitations become very obvious at 1080p for AAA games on the Ally.
That being said, I can play Witcher 3 at 1600x900, FSR Quality, HBAO+, and everything else medium at 55-65 fps average. So, I’m a happy camper with that on the couch.
A lot of Series S users up in the comments 😂
Series s has 8 core processor
Better optimisation, better bandwidth, power limitations. The series s is waaaaaay more popular irl, so developers will prioritise optimisation for it.
I think this just shows why it's inevitable that the majority of handhelds will need to go the RISC / Arm route eventually.
Games on Xbox were designed specifically to run on that platform.
*Versus*
Games on ROS wasn't specifically designed to run on it.
Those games were designed to run on PC hardware, there are countless of PC configurations out there.
Games could run better on ROS if the developers specifically targeted to run on ROS.
Windows handhelds lol
i dont care what he say i play diablo 2r on my legion go and i can use real 4k not the crap dynamic shit res. on series s .... facts , the game run and looks tausend time better on my 4k extern screen with legion go xD
btw i have both !
Huh. No it isn’t.
weak ahh sodimm ram and it's mobile chip that is.
Cos it 💩
Rog Ally Z1 Extreme is 8 TFLOPS ? WHATTTTTTT !!! It's likes around 2 TFLOPS, just a little bit above Steam Deck 1.6 TFLOPS. 8 TFLOPS ????? hahahahhahaH 😂😂😂
It is 4tflops
Hopefully Steam Deck 2 can be comparable to a Xbox series S
Steam Deck 2 won't happen any time soon with those abysmal sales of the Steam Deck, sorry to break your heart 😂
I’d think so. It’s probably not going to come this year or next, so ZEN 4/5 and RDNA 4 are probably on the table if they wanna go balls to the walls/efficiency.
Edit: Along with more/faster RAM and maybe even 3D vcash I think I definitely could.
Well at least the steam deck is more powerful than the Nintendo switch.
@@SaItyToad00 goofy ah goober, it got a revision with the OLED model. You don’t do that if it ain’t worth it.
@@ottomaticallyawesome yep. and even more surprising with Valve, which usually doesn't do hardware, nor softwares sequels/refreshes that much these days. It means its a popular product the way they ninja released the OLED so far. It could only mean the Steam Deck 2 is sooner rather than later...
I used to believe Valve will never release a Steam Deck 2, and let other manufacturers do its thing while they focus on SteamOS. However, the sudden release of SD OLED changed my mind.
issue with handhelds: scaled down Ryzen 7840U. Not custom. ROG Ally has a 64-bit bus, low clocks, too many CPU cores eating power at that low TDP. Series S has 100W TDP, high clocks and a big 256-bit memory bus. for great performance handhelds need a true custom chip. Only Vale can afford it and they made theirs already. AMD can't justify a new chip for devices that won't sell much.
the next amd APU has a 256 bit wide bus and a iGPU on par with a 4070. will be fun this winter when the new handheld pcs come out which will replace any gaming pc below 1500$, the current gen can already replace any gaming pc under 1000$.
Asus ally has 128-bit bus
And bandwidth is 104GB/s which is not possible with 64-bit and lpddr5
Featuring next level No Warranty 🤡............... How come not having warranty......
How many times are you gonna spam that
When 🐑 finally going to know that the didn't got a vaccine but a bio weapon in the arm 💉🧬💀🐑
People are dumb. They thought it was more powerful because of terafloopies. 🙄
Well the steam deck is still more powerful than the Nintendo switch. I guess.
lol ok?
Tdp. Simple. Rog only gets 30w tdp... series s much more.
Series S typically draws between 40-70 Watts.
There are a lot of factors and where the bottleneck for a game is in a particular system depends on a lot. Some games demand a lot of raw compute. Some want as much memory bandwidth as possible, some need to use a lot of RAM. It's a complicated question and I think the DF team is poorly equipped to answer it.
Xbox series s cpu is as powerful as ps5 cpu
😂
it only a budget console compered to ps5 in power and performance . ps5 smokes the series s it not even in the same ball park as ps5 . series s hold the generation back it series svhas a weaker gpu and cpu compared to ps5 and also series s runs at 454p in 2024 cant do native 4k gaming let alone raytracying.
@@benjaminphilp720blurry final fantasy game is not because of series s 1080 Returnal is not the series s fault you just gotta hate xbox because its in your pony bible
@@benjaminphilp720 Give a single real example where it held back both the series x and ps5? Balders Gate 3? nope it only held back the x version and later boosted all versions. Also go look at the cpu specs for all 3, the s is on par with ps5.
These "Df Clips" titles seriously need a rethink. They're always worded as if the viewer has no clue whatsoever of the current gaming landscape. "Why isnt the Ally faster than Series S?" Uh, cuz it's a handheld PC. That's not hard to surmise. Make the title something more thought provoking, because I know that high-quality, nuanced discussions actually happen in these vids, yet the titles don't spur any curiosity whatsoever.
Bro wants outrageous click bait. It would be for the best if all UA-cam tiles were as honest.