Great content!! very thought provoking! I am not sure if I am a good example. I joined my wife in the east of France in 2014. I always dreamed about returning to the US and only briefly tried to learn the language. Over the span of ten years I acquired a B1 level of French. I can do most things in France, I have never had a problem with discrimination or sub-standard service, but I do not really spend a great deal of money. Over the past few years I have accepted that my wife will never leave, so looks like we will be here for a while. I agree with your analysis, even if it doesn't apply to my own situation. I never learned French because my work did not require French. I can see no measurable advantage in achieving C1. The only utility I could see in perfecting my French would be to teach French in the USA as a HS teacher. I have been here long enough to request the French nationality, but I do not want to become French due to tax difficulties. About the only thing I cannot access as a non-native would be politics. - I cannot vote in French elections- That being said this video made some very interesting points about integration and acceptance. Which I think personally have more to do with class, culture, than language. Last point, language instruction is not free and requires time and money. I would benefit far more making myself exercise for an extra hour a day or spending time with my little ones. But I might know far more french than your average rich american/british retiree living in their cottage by the sea.
Thanks for the comment. My mum also thought she would somehow go back to the UK but it never happened. that would actually make for an interesting conversation: the different social class systems between France, UK and USA. A person might be extra rich in the US but come across as socially low in France. Bravo for your B1 by the way, it's not easy !
@@ouicommunicate it kinda did come easy. In terms of French grammar I am horrible. I did not really learn the language, I acquired it. I open my mouth and french comes out but I know I make a lot of mistakes. People don't seem to care because my kids speak the language well enough, and we are pretty active in our village. -- Yeah -- it was funny for my wife to learn that anyone can make money in the US and you do not have to be EDUCATED-cultivated usually in France social class and money go together. I am linking a video/ channel you might like. ua-cam.com/video/dqodhIG8Ffw/v-deo.html
@@jpigg86 I will watch the video. It was interesting to me to read that the people around don't seem to care. In another video it's a point of view I defend: picking up a language informally usually leads to some technical mistakes. (that may or may not be seen as important) And of course the locals don't correct us because it would break up the conversation among other reasons. Concerning social classes I do indeed believe that vertical movement is more possible in the US because it is based on money. In Europe and certainly the UK it's set once and for all. You can be very "posh" in Europe and be pennyless.
as someone who's going on a study abroad trip to france but still has very rudimentary french knowledge, this was incredibly motivating to keep learning. great video!
"The people are the country"... this pretty much sums it up. Someone who goes to visit a country and only sees rocks, trees, and buildings hasn't really done much that might enrich their lives. I never understood people who do that. I grew up in Texas and went to France in the early 70s, visiting friends of my family in Paris one summer. I'd studied French at school for a couple of years and could "get by". It wasn't common to find French people who spoke English in those days and our friends didn't know very much at all, so I had to learn. I learned a lot. Why don't expats learn French? Now, that's a huge missed opportunity.
I've lived in France for 6 years when I was a kid (8-14 yrs old). My dad left Brazil in 1999 to work as mecanical engineer. Having done an excelent job, with a rather average french at that time, my dad's manager made him stay there and me and my mom moved in shortly after in 2001. And as you said, knowing the language gave him quite an edge. I cant really conceive that you wouldn't learn the language of the country where you are living, sure it might be hard, but its part of leaving the confort zone, I myself prepare many students seeking to live/work abroad, and they all prepare themselves with at least 1 year prior to their trip. I can't deny it, being imersed in its culture changed our lives. Not only finacially, but for sure culturally, it gave us a cosmopolitan view of the world (even though my parents have always been quite a couple of scholars) that I probably wouldn't have had If I stayed in Brazil. My mom as example wasn't alowed to work, since my dad had an expat visa, but she spent the whole six years studying whatever she could at sorbone; antropology, psychoanalisys, cuisine. A big portion of what I'am today I owe it to french culture, the critical view of the world, deep dive into french revolution and ideas latter led me to becoming a language teacher, my mom also probably wouldn't have become a psychologist / teacher if she didnt have acces to Freud/Lacan original thoughts. I agree with a lot of what you said, I cant say that I had a preconceived view of French culture since I was 8 when I moved in, therefore not having a wider view of the world. But It sure dives much much deeper than just "bonjour! un croissant svp!", Eifel Tower and camembert cheese.
People on the street in Paris cut you to English as soon as you hesitate, but they are nice and humor you if you just candidly say that you want to speak French while you are there.
The reason you might not want to learn the language of the country where you are living has to do with utility. I had the opportunity to live in South Korea for two years. Knowing in advance that I would not live indefinitely in South Korea meant that I would be better off exercising and reading books. When I was in Malta in 2010 most of the Europeans discouraged me from trying to learn to much Maltese for the same reason. Cosmopolitan ex-pats who are living temporarily in Hong Kong, Singapour, or the Emerites might also fall into the same category. At the age of 8, you learning french was a matter of immense importance for your social/school life. It does not have the same sense of urgency if you are an affluent retiree living in the south of France.
You use the word expat. If this is how people see themselves, they do not learn the language beyond a few phrases. According to my observations, expats "lord it" over the natives. Also, expats stresses where you come from, it does not address the new country (ex+patrie). In fact: they first became emigrants, as they leave their own country...and then they become immigrants. An immigrant needs to face/adapt to the new country. I have been an immigrant all my life. Left France to spend one year in the USA, then to live in Slovakia for nearly 2 years (studying), then Switzerland for many years. I learnt Swiss German and I am now Swiss. Then I lived in Brazil, and I am now in the UK. I speak 5 languages. I think my life is richer for having IMMIGRATED, not just lived as a tourist, and I have also met/known people on a much deeper level, working or studying alongside them etc.
Expats are generally temporary residents though this status can extend for decades. Immigrants intend to become naturalized citizens and have a more permanent commitment to the place they have gone. I lived in the UK for 15 years. I intended to take a British passport and felt well integrated into British life and culture. I went to university there. Worked there. All of my friends were there. When I traveled and people asked where I was from, I said I was from the UK. That was my home. I did not regard myself as an expat. Later, I lived in Saudi Arabia and for just as long, but never intended to seek Saudi nationality. I was an expat. I spoke Arabic. Felt integrated into the life and culture. Most all of my friends were there - Saudis and non Saudis alike. But, I was an expat. I would eventually have to leave, and I did.
I don't really get the point, I'm French and a lot of expat that I know have a pretty good level in French (more than me in English with 15 years of schooling). I probably don't have comparison, but I know French people are in general not pretty good to learn German or other North East Eastern language (probably because we don't have the same root of langage)
Thanks for your comment. I believe it's important to be able to disagree and my views are not "the truth" of course. Yes, I also don't think the average French person is known for their German! 😀
@@ouicommunicate Ich spreche deutsch, und auch noch SchwiitzerTuutsch, dazu noch Yiddish (but I count these as only one language for practical reasons). People in the Alsace speak good German by the way.
Sorry: French, English, German have the same Indo-European roots, and their grammar functions with similar categories. English is in fact VERY close to French, but it is known as a Germanic language. Italian/Spanish/Portuguese/Rheto-Romantsch/Romanian are closer...But their verbs are horrendous, while German/English/Dutch/Swedish and the other nordic languages have a much simpler grammar.
I was watching this French guy's youtube channel a couple of years ago, he was really interested in German and German culture and his channel was mostly in German. He spoke like a native. You get really good at what you like. I found French very easy to learn, despite the complicated verb system which usually befuddles English speakers and the odd phonetics. I tried to learn German, which should be relatively easy for English speakers both phonetically and syntaticly, but failed repeatedly.
True ! I think I'm using the word "expat" as it applies to speakers of English who live in France/Europe with the frame of mind of a visitor. Perhaps I should have explained this.
Great content!! very thought provoking!
I am not sure if I am a good example. I joined my wife in the east of France in 2014. I always dreamed about returning to the US and only briefly tried to learn the language. Over the span of ten years I acquired a B1 level of French. I can do most things in France, I have never had a problem with discrimination or sub-standard service, but I do not really spend a great deal of money. Over the past few years I have accepted that my wife will never leave, so looks like we will be here for a while.
I agree with your analysis, even if it doesn't apply to my own situation. I never learned French because my work did not require French. I can see no measurable advantage in achieving C1. The only utility I could see in perfecting my French would be to teach French in the USA as a HS teacher. I have been here long enough to request the French nationality, but I do not want to become French due to tax difficulties. About the only thing I cannot access as a non-native would be politics. - I cannot vote in French elections-
That being said this video made some very interesting points about integration and acceptance. Which I think personally have more to do with class, culture, than language.
Last point, language instruction is not free and requires time and money. I would benefit far more making myself exercise for an extra hour a day or spending time with my little ones. But I might know far more french than your average rich american/british retiree living in their cottage by the sea.
Thanks for the comment. My mum also thought she would somehow go back to the UK but it never happened. that would actually make for an interesting conversation: the different social class systems between France, UK and USA. A person might be extra rich in the US but come across as socially low in France. Bravo for your B1 by the way, it's not easy !
@@ouicommunicate it kinda did come easy. In terms of French grammar I am horrible. I did not really learn the language, I acquired it. I open my mouth and french comes out but I know I make a lot of mistakes.
People don't seem to care because my kids speak the language well enough, and we are pretty active in our village.
-- Yeah -- it was funny for my wife to learn that anyone can make money in the US and you do not have to be EDUCATED-cultivated usually in France social class and money go together. I am linking a video/ channel you might like.
ua-cam.com/video/dqodhIG8Ffw/v-deo.html
@@jpigg86 I will watch the video. It was interesting to me to read that the people around don't seem to care. In another video it's a point of view I defend: picking up a language informally usually leads to some technical mistakes. (that may or may not be seen as important) And of course the locals don't correct us because it would break up the conversation among other reasons. Concerning social classes I do indeed believe that vertical movement is more possible in the US because it is based on money. In Europe and certainly the UK it's set once and for all. You can be very "posh" in Europe and be pennyless.
as someone who's going on a study abroad trip to france but still has very rudimentary french knowledge, this was incredibly motivating to keep learning. great video!
Thanks for taking the time to comment! Which city are you going to?
"The people are the country"... this pretty much sums it up. Someone who goes to visit a country and only sees rocks, trees, and buildings hasn't really done much that might enrich their lives. I never understood people who do that. I grew up in Texas and went to France in the early 70s, visiting friends of my family in Paris one summer. I'd studied French at school for a couple of years and could "get by". It wasn't common to find French people who spoke English in those days and our friends didn't know very much at all, so I had to learn. I learned a lot. Why don't expats learn French? Now, that's a huge missed opportunity.
Thanks for the comment. Yes I too believe that it's a missed opportunity.
I've lived in France for 6 years when I was a kid (8-14 yrs old). My dad left Brazil in 1999 to work as mecanical engineer. Having done an excelent job, with a rather average french at that time, my dad's manager made him stay there and me and my mom moved in shortly after in 2001. And as you said, knowing the language gave him quite an edge. I cant really conceive that you wouldn't learn the language of the country where you are living, sure it might be hard, but its part of leaving the confort zone, I myself prepare many students seeking to live/work abroad, and they all prepare themselves with at least 1 year prior to their trip.
I can't deny it, being imersed in its culture changed our lives. Not only finacially, but for sure culturally, it gave us a cosmopolitan view of the world (even though my parents have always been quite a couple of scholars) that I probably wouldn't have had If I stayed in Brazil. My mom as example wasn't alowed to work, since my dad had an expat visa, but she spent the whole six years studying whatever she could at sorbone; antropology, psychoanalisys, cuisine. A big portion of what I'am today I owe it to french culture, the critical view of the world, deep dive into french revolution and ideas latter led me to becoming a language teacher, my mom also probably wouldn't have become a psychologist / teacher if she didnt have acces to Freud/Lacan original thoughts.
I agree with a lot of what you said, I cant say that I had a preconceived view of French culture since I was 8 when I moved in, therefore not having a wider view of the world. But It sure dives much much deeper than just "bonjour! un croissant svp!", Eifel Tower and camembert cheese.
People on the street in Paris cut you to English as soon as you hesitate, but they are nice and humor you if you just candidly say that you want to speak French while you are there.
The reason you might not want to learn the language of the country where you are living has to do with utility. I had the opportunity to live in South Korea for two years. Knowing in advance that I would not live indefinitely in South Korea meant that I would be better off exercising and reading books.
When I was in Malta in 2010 most of the Europeans discouraged me from trying to learn to much Maltese for the same reason.
Cosmopolitan ex-pats who are living temporarily in Hong Kong, Singapour, or the Emerites might also fall into the same category.
At the age of 8, you learning french was a matter of immense importance for your social/school life. It does not have the same sense of urgency if you are an affluent retiree living in the south of France.
You use the word expat. If this is how people see themselves, they do not learn the language beyond a few phrases. According to my observations, expats "lord it" over the natives. Also, expats stresses where you come from, it does not address the new country (ex+patrie).
In fact: they first became emigrants, as they leave their own country...and then they become immigrants. An immigrant needs to face/adapt to the new country. I have been an immigrant all my life. Left France to spend one year in the USA, then to live in Slovakia for nearly 2 years (studying), then Switzerland for many years. I learnt Swiss German and I am now Swiss. Then I lived in Brazil, and I am now in the UK. I speak 5 languages. I think my life is richer for having IMMIGRATED, not just lived as a tourist, and I have also met/known people on a much deeper level, working or studying alongside them etc.
Why do you call yourself expat when you are an immigrant, what is the difference?
Very true. Though immigrant contains a rather more negative connotation.
Expats are generally temporary residents though this status can extend for decades. Immigrants intend to become naturalized citizens and have a more permanent commitment to the place they have gone. I lived in the UK for 15 years. I intended to take a British passport and felt well integrated into British life and culture. I went to university there. Worked there. All of my friends were there. When I traveled and people asked where I was from, I said I was from the UK. That was my home. I did not regard myself as an expat. Later, I lived in Saudi Arabia and for just as long, but never intended to seek Saudi nationality. I was an expat. I spoke Arabic. Felt integrated into the life and culture. Most all of my friends were there - Saudis and non Saudis alike. But, I was an expat. I would eventually have to leave, and I did.
Expats are superior to the natives, immigrants, or other greasy foreigners because they're British. Silly question.
Expat is longer than a holiday. Work, study or a year or two off, but their intention is to return to their country.
I don't really get the point, I'm French and a lot of expat that I know have a pretty good level in French (more than me in English with 15 years of schooling). I probably don't have comparison, but I know French people are in general not pretty good to learn German or other North East Eastern language (probably because we don't have the same root of langage)
Thanks for your comment. I believe it's important to be able to disagree and my views are not "the truth" of course. Yes, I also don't think the average French person is known for their German! 😀
@@ouicommunicate Ich spreche deutsch, und auch noch SchwiitzerTuutsch, dazu noch Yiddish (but I count these as only one language for practical reasons). People in the Alsace speak good German by the way.
Sorry: French, English, German have the same Indo-European roots, and their grammar functions with similar categories. English is in fact VERY close to French, but it is known as a Germanic language. Italian/Spanish/Portuguese/Rheto-Romantsch/Romanian are closer...But their verbs are horrendous, while German/English/Dutch/Swedish and the other nordic languages have a much simpler grammar.
I was watching this French guy's youtube channel a couple of years ago, he was really interested in German and German culture and his channel was mostly in German. He spoke like a native. You get really good at what you like. I found French very easy to learn, despite the complicated verb system which usually befuddles English speakers and the odd phonetics. I tried to learn German, which should be relatively easy for English speakers both phonetically and syntaticly, but failed repeatedly.
@@MCJSA Quite true. We do get good at what we like. There's this great piece by Mark Twain in which he describes the impossibility of learning German!
Doesn't expat = monolingual Brit or American ? If so we can have the same discussion in terms of every country in the world!
True ! I think I'm using the word "expat" as it applies to speakers of English who live in France/Europe with the frame of mind of a visitor. Perhaps I should have explained this.