I'm trying for the fifth time to come off anti depressants. THanks to Mark, i've some hope that i will eventually be successful.. I never had any encouragement from the Medical Profession and in fact my thoughts that the problem was withdrawl, NOT a relapse. I was only mildly depressed due to the loss of 3 family members in a short of time. THe alacrity with which the profession foisted these drugs on me has caused huge problems for me and basically ruined my life. I always KNEW subjectively of course that the problem was withdrawl and each time i would try to withdraw much more slowly . Unfortunately, the last time, i was not aware of MArks work and i probably got down to a small dose and got overconfident and once again withdrew too quickly. I understand these experts are from the medical profession and don't want to criticise their colleagues, but it should be said that the profession has been hugely negligent in blithely over prescribing these medication., particularly as the chemical imbalance theory had long been debunked. THe fact that the psychiatric profession did not properly communicate this is criminal negligence. WHere were the long term studies showing the long term effects? Where were the questions about possible problems of withdrawl. I can only conclude that the profession is either closed-minded, unable to pose intelligent questions, ie unintelligent in their approach , too much captured by Big Pharma, too obedient to authority and unable to think outside the box, or just not bothered to think for themselves. Their negligence has caused untold suffering and there was no need for it. I thank these brave and intelligent scientists but is the profession so lacking in such people that it has taken decades to properly address these issues - and they are outliers. Meanwhile the majority of the profession are breaking their Hyppocratic Oath and , indeed , are doing much harm to millions of people
I’m trying for the fourth time. I gave up after the third attempt until I was told to read Anatomy of an Epidemic by Robert Whitaker. Shortly after that time I bought Mark’s Deprescribing book. I finally know what a proper taper should look like.
I am “white knuckling” my third attempt at tapering with significant withdrawal symptoms right now and cannot tell you how thankful I am that this discussion is happening. I was prescribed my first SSRI, 34 years ago, when I was too young to know what was happening. The unknown is so scary when it is dealing with the brain. Thank you for dedicating your expertise to a topic that is maddeningly horribly handled by American Modern medicine.
I was put on antidepressants starting in my teenage years. I was not told about withdrawals and what the drugs actually did. Every time I came off of an antidepressant I had to get on another one because I was unknowingly experiencing hellish withdrawal symptoms. I thought I was broken and I needed meds to be fixed, but each medicine gave me new problems. This is so unfair.
We need so much more of this. I’m a pharmacist and wish I could do something to help this problem. Tapering Zoloft and Valium myself. I’m in such disbelief at how hard this has been. Tapering the benzo for about 3 years now - crossed over from clonaz to Valium. Zoloft for about 1.5. It has been absolutely horrible. Something needs to be done. We need compounding pharmacies that can create doses that taper like 3% per month. Tell me how I can help.
The Pharmacists watched me get poly-drugged, iatrogenic injuries, etc, and probably were thinking "damn it. Not another one." They can't do much. I've briefly mentioned here and there what was happening, and they couldn't really say anything except fill the scripts.
Love what M.Horowitz said, reflecting what Joanna C. mentioned regarding withdrawal & scans to check out the effects on the different receptors, etc.! That gives hope to me! And the emphasis on the slowness of withdrawal reflects what Dr C. Heather Ashton had said in a great lecture on all these meds entitled “History Of Medicines Involuntarily Addiction” short version on YT. Full version on Vimeo...Vimeo link under the YT version of lecture! Thank you all so much! Everyone had such great ideas to contribute! 🙏🏼
Thank you for such a well thought out & thoughtful discussion on this topic! It’s greatly appreciated by not only myself, but by those taken off so fast that they go through unbelievable suffering for years! I cannot speak much more on this, as some is from a support group, but we are grateful for such discussions! Thank you all!
I agree with Peter G. regarding the support one has while withdrawing! Many of us are alone & withdrawing which seems to compounds the problem. On the other hand, many prescribers nor the patients’ family believe a word they are saying, sadly! It’s very important also to have things to look forward to in life after the withdrawal & during it. And many due have a strong motivation to never be on them again, since the amount of suffering while taking them & withdrawing from them can be so beyond all words!
I‘m so grateful for this panel discussion! I’m so glad that these things are finally being taken seriously! I just wish there were more people involved in this in the USA! Thank you! I do so look forward to the next one, for sure & I hope I can watch live!
I’m totally for coming off slowly & at the pace the patient can handle! Oddly, as wonderful as it is to feel ones emotions again during withdrawal, one may have to hold the dose = keep it the same for a time as much as a year or more if there are other overwhelming things going on & said person has no help! Withdrawal alone is quite overwhelming! And the holding of a dose may be necessary so the executive function, central nervous system & memory can catch up regarding healing! But when this happens with a benzo, I have noticed that others also feel sedation of their emotions to the point that the quality of life is greatly lacking! And there’s the catch 22! I think a study should be done on the long term effects of how a benzodiazepine effects REM sleep over a 20-25yr period! And also, when coming off & then when having to hold the dose a long period of time! I ask this due to my experiences of withdrawal which I have been journaling & think it plays a very important role! I hope someone in this field who wishes to help, will see this & pick up on it!
Why can’t studies be done on those experiencing the SAME symptoms on the drugs! No matter what they are?? At least check the receptors & do sleep studies to check on REM cycles! These may help, whether on the drugs for a long time or having similar effects during withdrawal to see what is happening! Also...too much stress during withdrawal most definitely has exacerbated my withdrawal symptoms from a benzodiazepine!
You're not wrong. Research on receptor saturation starting the Pharmaceutical, staying on the Pharmaceutical past the 12 weeks shown in current research studies (so, staying on it for 12 months, 1 year, 5 years, 10 yrs, 20 years, etc,) increasing the dosage of the Pharmaceutical, and withdrawal from the Pharmaceutical, etc. ie: extremely scienc'ey information to know BEFORE trying what you saw on TV. "Outro Health" 's videos on Cymbalta and Effexor briefly touch about this, as does Dr Peter Breggins and Dr Joanna Moncrieff. & also about partial-insomnia from these "selective" serotonin/norepinephrine/dopamine-related Pharmaceuticals.
Thank you all I came off psychiatric meds this year slowly still have trouble to sleep. Here in Argentina nobody cuestion Big Pharma and the effects of this meds
Hey, MIA, would you put the names of the guests (and maybe titles?) in the description of this and other webinars? They don't show up on the screen. Would be great to be able to read who's who. Thanks for your AMAZING work!
Thank you so much for this. I hope more funds for research will be made available as well as information spread, on this fundamentally vital topic, so that "people don't take them in the first place". I wonder though, what happens after one has withdrawn from all drugs? Let's say after a year and difficult withdrawal a person starts suffering from depression again. Does one try to find other treatment methods for healing? Or do people often end up taking medication again? I would be interested to hear more about what's after withdrawal, how does one live? Thank you so much!
Everyone is different but most of us who have experienced withdrawal firsthand will go to any lengths to not ever tale them again. Even with severe depression or psychosis. We find other ways to be with our suffering.
@@BeingMeRV thank you for getting back:). Last time I stopped medication , I lost control because so much resurfaced and because I didn't have any support I ended up admitted against my will and forcefully drugged which traumatized me for another almost ten years. It's so hard, yet I have to do something because the side effects get unbearable and I know it's wrong because 90% of the problems started after I was prescribed anti depressants. However because of the system and fear after what I went through, I never found the courage to try taper again. However watching videos like these, where I finally feel understood as well as reading you helps a lot 🙏
@@BeingMeRV Could you please have some post withdrawal discussions? Many of us have been off our meds for years or even decades & are suffering terribly. What are some of these way to be with our suffering you mentioned? Thanks
@@montesa9136 for some, eating clean = no boxed foods, more salads & veggies &fruits have been reported to help in groups of peers. Dandelions in salad (but never a whole plate...that’s too much as I found out myself!) Keeping hydrated & making sure one has enough electrolytes is a necessity (especially during the ‘cotton mouth’ phase. Some work through suffering using meditation or sitting/being mindful of their suffering & done enough, this seems to help it to lessen or to dissipate. Many drink teas such as Dandelion detox or Elderberry teas, also Lemongrass tea; the dandelion detox tea seems to work very well, but I’ve noticed if I don’t drink enough, mild withdrawal symptoms may come back for a bit. Resveritrol seems a big help! I hope some others also send you suggestions which will be helpful to you, as well. Best wishes to you for a full recovery!
You need the talk about what vitamins or minerals to help withdrawal symptoms because we suffer so much. Maybe something can help us. When we thinking just about the withdrawal symptoms will continue so much time this is make us so much stress. We need to use something for help this withdrawal symptoms but what they are?
Curious if Mark Horowitz has any Data as it relates to an adolescent withdrawal experience from Prozac use over 5 years presenting as very high agitation to clothes and changing clothes or fear changing clothes because of a high level of uncomfortableness? Starting age on Prozac was age 8 and now age 13.5. Dose start 2.5 ml up to 4.5 ml. Withdrawal symptoms noticeable at reduced rate at 3.125 or so. Symptoms lasting 5 weeks so holding and not continuing to drop. We’re 3 weeks in to her not being able to change a shirt. I understand this is anxiety based fear and we’re working on coping but really curious if the younger kids have more of a somatic withdrawal experience?
I was just told about this channel! Does anyone know if during benzo withdrawal if the faulty remembering ever goes away & If the brain regarding memory heals completely or not?? It’s like still having that temporary dementia but in a micro form & unless another speaks up, I wouldn’t know how often this is happening. Has anyone else found this also to be their experience coming off & or while holding their dose mid way through their taper?? (This is so beyond horrible!) TYIA
I came across this video right after watching a UA-cam doctor's video commenting on Jordan Peterson's akathisia story. It was so upsetting and I so wish that you guys with the work that you're doing would do a better job on beating the algorithm. Cuz these videos are buried so far under that you only seem to come across them when something really bad has come and you go and you search in specific words. So only a very niche demographic gets to see this. #akathisia #antidepressant #medication #health #wellness
Can you buy that old doctor a darn microphone?? You should delete this video to prevent people wasting time on not understanding anything he says... It deserves being angry about, such a waste of information from the speaker.
There is a resource that may not have been mentioned here from Dr. Peter Breggin ("the Conscience of American Psychiatry") This book is "Psychiatric Drug Withdrawel". a GUIDE FOR PRESCRIBERS. THERAPISTS. PATIENTS AND THEIR FAMILIES. LOVE.
I'm trying for the fifth time to come off anti depressants. THanks to Mark, i've some hope that i will eventually be successful.. I never had any encouragement from the Medical Profession and in fact my thoughts that the problem was withdrawl, NOT a relapse. I was only mildly depressed due to the loss of 3 family members in a short of time. THe alacrity with which the profession foisted these drugs on me has caused huge problems for me and basically ruined my life. I always KNEW subjectively of course that the problem was withdrawl and each time i would try to withdraw much more slowly . Unfortunately, the last time, i was not aware of MArks work and i probably got down to a small dose and got overconfident and once again withdrew too quickly.
I understand these experts are from the medical profession and don't want to criticise their colleagues, but it should be said that the profession has been hugely negligent in blithely over prescribing these medication., particularly as the chemical imbalance theory had long been debunked. THe fact that the psychiatric profession did not properly communicate this is criminal negligence. WHere were the long term studies showing the long term effects? Where were the questions about possible problems of withdrawl. I can only conclude that the profession is either closed-minded, unable to pose intelligent questions, ie unintelligent in their approach , too much captured by Big Pharma, too obedient to authority and unable to think outside the box, or just not bothered to think for themselves. Their negligence has caused untold suffering and
there was no need for it. I thank these brave and intelligent scientists but is the profession so lacking in such people that it has taken decades to properly address these issues - and they are outliers. Meanwhile the majority of the profession are breaking their Hyppocratic Oath and , indeed , are doing much harm to millions of people
I’m trying for the fourth time. I gave up after the third attempt until I was told to read Anatomy of an Epidemic by Robert Whitaker. Shortly after that time I bought Mark’s Deprescribing book. I finally know what a proper taper should look like.
I am “white knuckling” my third attempt at tapering with significant withdrawal symptoms right now and cannot tell you how thankful I am that this discussion is happening. I was prescribed my first SSRI, 34 years ago, when I was too young to know what was happening. The unknown is so scary when it is dealing with the brain. Thank you for dedicating your expertise to a topic that is maddeningly horribly handled by American Modern medicine.
Were you able to get off?
I was put on antidepressants starting in my teenage years. I was not told about withdrawals and what the drugs actually did. Every time I came off of an antidepressant I had to get on another one because I was unknowingly experiencing hellish withdrawal symptoms. I thought I was broken and I needed meds to be fixed, but each medicine gave me new problems. This is so unfair.
Please do some talks on what becomes of people post withdrawal!
This is Very Important topic
Thanks!
We need so much more of this. I’m a pharmacist and wish I could do something to help this problem. Tapering Zoloft and Valium myself. I’m in such disbelief at how hard this has been. Tapering the benzo for about 3 years now - crossed over from clonaz to Valium. Zoloft for about 1.5. It has been absolutely horrible.
Something needs to be done. We need compounding pharmacies that can create doses that taper like 3% per month.
Tell me how I can help.
The Pharmacists watched me get poly-drugged, iatrogenic injuries, etc, and probably were thinking "damn it. Not another one." They can't do much. I've briefly mentioned here and there what was happening, and they couldn't really say anything except fill the scripts.
Love what M.Horowitz said, reflecting what Joanna C. mentioned regarding withdrawal & scans to check out the effects on the different receptors, etc.! That gives hope to me! And the emphasis on the slowness of withdrawal reflects what Dr C. Heather Ashton had said in a great lecture on all these meds entitled “History Of Medicines Involuntarily Addiction” short version on YT. Full version on Vimeo...Vimeo link under the YT version of lecture!
Thank you all so much! Everyone had such great ideas to contribute! 🙏🏼
Thank you for such a well thought out & thoughtful discussion on this topic! It’s greatly appreciated by not only myself, but by those taken off so fast that they go through unbelievable suffering for years! I cannot speak much more on this, as some is from a support group, but we are grateful for such discussions! Thank you all!
I agree with Peter G. regarding the support one has while withdrawing! Many of us are alone & withdrawing which seems to compounds the problem. On the other hand, many prescribers nor the patients’ family believe a word they are saying, sadly!
It’s very important also to have things to look forward to in life after the withdrawal & during it. And many due have a strong motivation to never be on them again, since the amount of suffering while taking them & withdrawing from them can be so beyond all words!
I‘m so grateful for this panel discussion! I’m so glad that these things are finally being taken seriously! I just wish there were more people involved in this in the USA! Thank you! I do so look forward to the next one, for sure & I hope I can watch live!
I’m totally for coming off slowly & at the pace the patient can handle! Oddly, as wonderful as it is to feel ones emotions again during withdrawal, one may have to hold the dose = keep it the same for a time as much as a year or more if there are other overwhelming things going on & said person has no help! Withdrawal alone is quite overwhelming!
And the holding of a dose may be necessary so the executive function, central nervous system & memory can catch up regarding healing! But when this happens with a benzo, I have noticed that others also feel sedation of their emotions to the point that the quality of life is greatly lacking! And there’s the catch 22!
I think a study should be done on the long term effects of how a benzodiazepine effects REM sleep over a 20-25yr period! And also, when coming off & then when having to hold the dose a long period of time! I ask this due to my experiences of withdrawal which I have been journaling & think it plays a very important role! I hope someone in this field who wishes to help, will see this & pick up on it!
What an Interesting discussion. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and your experiences. 👍
Why can’t studies be done on those experiencing the SAME symptoms on the drugs! No matter what they are?? At least check the receptors & do sleep studies to check on REM cycles! These may help, whether on the drugs for a long time or having similar effects during withdrawal to see what is happening!
Also...too much stress during withdrawal most definitely has exacerbated my withdrawal symptoms from a benzodiazepine!
You're not wrong.
Research on receptor saturation starting the Pharmaceutical, staying on the Pharmaceutical past the 12 weeks shown in current research studies (so, staying on it for 12 months, 1 year, 5 years, 10 yrs, 20 years, etc,) increasing the dosage of the Pharmaceutical, and withdrawal from the Pharmaceutical, etc. ie: extremely scienc'ey information to know BEFORE trying what you saw on TV. "Outro Health" 's videos on Cymbalta and Effexor briefly touch about this, as does Dr Peter Breggins and Dr Joanna Moncrieff.
& also about partial-insomnia from these "selective" serotonin/norepinephrine/dopamine-related Pharmaceuticals.
Thank you all
I came off psychiatric meds this year slowly still have trouble to sleep. Here in Argentina nobody cuestion Big Pharma and the effects of this meds
Hey, MIA, would you put the names of the guests (and maybe titles?) in the description of this and other webinars? They don't show up on the screen. Would be great to be able to read who's who. Thanks for your AMAZING work!
An excellent suggestion, thank you, we have now added names and brief bios of the panelists. We will check other videos too, thanks.
@@Mad-in-America that’s a great idea! Thank you for doing all that!
Thank you so much for this. I hope more funds for research will be made available as well as information spread, on this fundamentally vital topic, so that "people don't take them in the first place".
I wonder though, what happens after one has withdrawn from all drugs? Let's say after a year and difficult withdrawal a person starts suffering from depression again. Does one try to find other treatment methods for healing? Or do people often end up taking medication again? I would be interested to hear more about what's after withdrawal, how does one live? Thank you so much!
Everyone is different but most of us who have experienced withdrawal firsthand will go to any lengths to not ever tale them again. Even with severe depression or psychosis. We find other ways to be with our suffering.
@@BeingMeRV thank you for getting back:). Last time I stopped medication , I lost control because so much resurfaced and because I didn't have any support I ended up admitted against my will and forcefully drugged which traumatized me for another almost ten years.
It's so hard, yet I have to do something because the side effects get unbearable and I know it's wrong because 90% of the problems started after I was prescribed anti depressants. However because of the system and fear after what I went through, I never found the courage to try taper again. However watching videos like these, where I finally feel understood as well as reading you helps a lot 🙏
@@BeingMeRV Could you please have some post withdrawal discussions? Many of us have been off our meds for years or even decades & are suffering terribly. What are some of these way to be with our suffering you mentioned?
Thanks
@@montesa9136 i tried to comment to you but my larger comment has been censored.
@@montesa9136 for some, eating clean = no boxed foods, more salads & veggies &fruits have been reported to help in groups of peers. Dandelions in salad (but never a whole plate...that’s too much as I found out myself!)
Keeping hydrated & making sure one has enough electrolytes is a necessity (especially during the ‘cotton mouth’ phase. Some work through suffering using meditation or sitting/being mindful of their suffering & done enough, this seems to help it to lessen or to dissipate. Many drink teas such as Dandelion detox or Elderberry teas, also Lemongrass tea; the dandelion detox tea seems to work very well, but I’ve noticed if I don’t drink enough, mild withdrawal symptoms may come back for a bit. Resveritrol seems a big help! I hope some others also send you suggestions which will be helpful to you, as well. Best wishes to you for a full recovery!
It's too bad that tapering strips are not available in NY or U.S.
Are their clinics where victims can go to get the nutritional, counseling and chemical help to withdraw.
You need the talk about what vitamins or minerals to help withdrawal symptoms because we suffer so much. Maybe something can help us. When we thinking just about the withdrawal symptoms will continue so much time this is make us so much stress. We need to use something for help this withdrawal symptoms but what they are?
Does anyone know of any supplements/ foods that speed up the withdrawal process, thanks? Or exercises/ therapies?
Niacin vit b3
Curious if Mark Horowitz has any Data as it relates to an adolescent withdrawal experience from Prozac use over 5 years presenting as very high agitation to clothes and changing clothes or fear changing clothes because of a high level of uncomfortableness? Starting age on Prozac was age 8 and now age 13.5. Dose start 2.5 ml up to 4.5 ml. Withdrawal symptoms noticeable at reduced rate at 3.125 or so. Symptoms lasting 5 weeks so holding and not continuing to drop. We’re 3 weeks in to her not being able to change a shirt. I understand this is anxiety based fear and we’re working on coping but really curious if the younger kids have more of a somatic withdrawal experience?
The good thing is that the younger you are, the better Neuroplasticity your physiology has.
I was just told about this channel!
Does anyone know if during benzo withdrawal if the faulty remembering ever goes away & If the brain regarding memory heals completely or not?? It’s like still having that temporary dementia but in a micro form & unless another speaks up, I wouldn’t know how often this is happening. Has anyone else found this also to be their experience coming off & or while holding their dose mid way through their taper??
(This is so beyond horrible!) TYIA
sir , any permenent solution ?
It's a funny medicine that doesn't recognise drug withdrawal problems.
My comment to someone has been deleted & im sure not by Mad In America!
I just wanted you to know.
I came across this video right after watching a UA-cam doctor's video commenting on Jordan Peterson's akathisia story. It was so upsetting and I so wish that you guys with the work that you're doing would do a better job on beating the algorithm. Cuz these videos are buried so far under that you only seem to come across them when something really bad has come and you go and you search in specific words. So only a very niche demographic gets to see this. #akathisia #antidepressant #medication #health #wellness
what about some one whose been on them 18 yearsi mean clozapin
Are you talking about clozapine? Or Clonazepam
Can you buy that old doctor a darn microphone?? You should delete this video to prevent people wasting time on not understanding anything he says... It deserves being angry about, such a waste of information from the speaker.
There is a resource that may not have been mentioned here from Dr. Peter Breggin ("the Conscience of American Psychiatry") This book is "Psychiatric Drug Withdrawel". a GUIDE FOR PRESCRIBERS. THERAPISTS. PATIENTS AND THEIR FAMILIES. LOVE.