How To Climb Past the V4 Plateau (From a V4 Climber)
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- Опубліковано 21 лип 2024
- V4 and 5.12a are climbing grades that regularly stump climbers from progressing. I personally have been stuck climbing V4s and 5.11s for the last 8 years, but all of that changed when I started implementing a new routine. The climbing changes I did, as seen in this video, are easy to implement and can result in some serious improvements. I just wish I started doing this routine sooner!
This video just displays my advice and opinions-It may not work for everyone. If you are lacking in technique or endurance, then you may need to focus on other climbing improvements! My main struggles with climbing progression relied largely on finger strength and health.
If you enjoyed this video, be sure to give it a like, comment, and subscribe!
Thanks for watching!! :)
00:00 The V4 Plateau
00:38 Climbing Lifestyle Change
03:07 Injury Management
04:15 Advanced Tips
06:37 Disagree with Me? - Розваги
Hey all! To clarify, I am talking about OUTDOOR grades V4 and 5.12a. I feel like there’s a big difference indoor vs outdoor. And second, this is just what has worked for me, it may not work for you, and I hope people who have encountered similar difficulties getting past this plateau can gain something from the video!
I think the biggest thing for me to break a plateau is projecting harder routes. I used to be scared to hop on harder routes, but now, even if I cant do the starting move I will still attempt the rest of the climb. Odds are that most people can do portions of climbs above their level. Also, I 100% agree that hangboarding should be implemented once you reach the v3-v4 level.
For sure think that has a lot to do with it too! I feel like it's hard to realize how much more difficult certain routes are, it really gives motivation to train harder in order to reach that goal.
Totally agree. I’ve tried V7 on the second month just in case to check how hard it is.
Please do more climbing video, it's so refreshing to see people that actually start from the bottom and gradually go trough grades and not just sturt climbing and 6 months in they do v10 moonboard😂
"Hey I will show you my routine to climb V10"
"Step 1; be gifted and start able to do V7 on your first day"
Haha, but what if I wind up doing V10 soon???
@@Natemitka unsubscribing, nah jk, would be cool if you do😂
I think I may try this. I have the same experience after about 6 years of climbing. Always ramping up training for trips and then getting hurt. Thanks Nate!
The injuries are so frustrating. I found this method to work. I wish you luck!
Thanks for sharing your story!!! I genuinely relate, esp with the injuries and climbing less to get more. Subscribed!!!
Glad you related! Yes those injuries are so dang frustrating. Good luck out there!
Thanks for the great advice, I’ll definitely give this workout a go. Great vids keep it up!
amazing production for such a small youtuber, please keep up the videos!
Thank you!
Really rate this, thanks. Very frustrating watching vids like "do this for a one arm pull-up and straddle splits then climb v14". I've been talking about transitioning my climbing to something similar to your program for a few months now (more outdoors, more hangboarding, less unfocussed gym climbing). This is great encouragement to actually do it.
I know, I think that was part of the reason I wanted to make this video. I wish you luck with your climbing changes!
Cool video!
I'm only recently starting to break my v3-v4 plateau. Some of it is the mental game of staying calm under pressure and actively looking to improve positioning.
Re video: I would love to get outside more, but currently it isn't a very feasible option for me. The hang boarding tips I will definitely take into account as currently I'm doing it very ad hoc
Glad you liked it! The mental game is so tough too, and I didn’t even touch on that at all in this video!
I'm V4-5 climber and always struggle with hang boarding. Mainly did it on 20mm edge with my feet still on the ground. I recently discovered it wasn't my fingers but it was my shoulders that were weak. Started doing scap shrugs. After a month I was surprised by how much stronger I was on the 20mm edge. Suddenly body weight +15kg was comfortable
This is the most relatable training video! Do you do extra strength training or cardio on your hangboard days? Hangboarding does wonders for finger strength, but whenever I focus on it I feel like I'm getting out of shape in other ways.
Dude glad you liked it! On hangboarding days I usually do other workouts/trainings too, except for climbing. It takes a lot of discipline to continue with the routine, because it's an extra 15-20 minutes out of your day. I think having a hangboard at home helps a ton with this.
Thanks for sharing your training protocol. I think the best way to overcome a plateau is to add/change the stimulus you’re giving your body periodically, and focus on areas of weakness in your training. That method doesn’t change whether you climb V4, V8, V10, or V16. A couple of additional thoughts from my own climbing journey. I tend to avoid moonboard as it generally feels very hard on my fingers. I have spent a fair amount of time on kilter and tension 2 and they are more comfortable for me. Understanding many people won’t have access to these boards. An alternative might be an overhanging spray wall or overhanging section of the gym to start. Finally, on fingers, I have had really good success with Emil’s low intensity hanging protocol when done 1-2 times per day. I’m not recommending this for anyone, just mentioning that it has made my fingers feel much more healthy.
yes, seems to be much easier to start with the Kilter board compared to Moon board
Great video! I loved the simplicity. Subscribed:)
Thanks!
Great video Nathan! Oddly enough, I have recently started to implement a similar routine after climbing v4-6 for 4 years. Weirdly I find I climb hardest when I only go once a week & hangboard/ work out most days, guess my body takes ages to recover 😅
Right there with ya! Sometimes slowing it down is the key!
Great video and great channel dude! Keep it up
Love to hear that! Thanks!
Nice man! I was doing max hangs with some max pull ups, push ups, pulls on t rex for couples of months but still didnt improved 😅 and climb like my just climbing friends
Good stuff. These are my indoor plateaus after about 4 years of climbing. Occasionally sending V5 and 5.12~c, but really only comfortable with V4/5.12a. I think this is the place where you're pretty strong and have a lot of technique fundamentals, but need strength that most people don't naturally have, and you're not building by just climbing more.
Just tried a kilter board for the first time this weekend and it kicked my butt. Starting to see I'm going to need to get more focused in training and start working in more system/finger board stuff, and work on the footwork/position techniques specific to overhangs, and stop climbing so much (I'm on lead routes in the gym 4-5x/week) to move to the next level.
Love it! It's interesting to hit that plateau and then sounds like you're doing the right experimentation to figure out how to progress!
Excellent footy of Breashears and others on the Dark side 🤙 also good insights
Thanks! Love Breashears crack :)
By following Dave MacLeod's 30 minute hangboard follow-along video, 3 times a week- a routine he has aimed at beginner to intermmediate climbers. I was able to up a couple of grades relatively quickly; like in only 2-3 weeks. I do the hangboard in the morning then climb at night, 3 times a week. The only thing preventing me from making a further gain is my lower body flexibility. I'm working on this now too.
Love to hear that!
great video bro. I like this style of video
Thanks Eli! A little quick hit on training!
Yeah good to reflect on not just trying to 'break through' a level, but to first stop/change the ways you're already undermining yourself like pushing too hard and increasing injuries...and while this may seem regressive, I think it fits with the concept that each higher grade is exponentially harder so will take more time and attention and learning rather than less
Climbing less seems like wild advice and I guess just boils down to previous overtraining or only focusing on a certain style and overtraining some specific body parts, especially at V4. I have been bouldering/ climbing for 6 years maybe and boulder 3 days a week indoors mostly. If I feel tweaks I focus on slab or slopers or whatever is not hard on the tweaks. I have climbed 7B (soft V8 ish) outdoors and I still believe the technique learning from actually climbing is more productive for improvement than focusing on strength training. I think implementing board climbing could be helpful since I am sort of weak at that style but I would not want to step away from the variety of movements one can learn from well set problems at all angles. I still don’t hangboard or strength train and those might be helpful but still I don’t agree they should take priority over wall time. Around V4 level I definitely was better learning to climb better than focusing on strength. And I’m not some crazy genetic freak who is strong without climbing, lattice says my fingers are weak.
Different people with need to strength train at different stages but I can not think of a single V4 climber where I thought “I think they should climb less and train more”
I disagree with this - it is trotted out far too often IMO - and would be interested to hear where your finger strength is at (I doubt its the bottom of the bell curve!). Actually 6 years isnt a lot of movement experience, so maybe you still need to prioritise it.
I have been climbing about 20 years. And focussing on the strength side, AND lowering volume, for the last 6 months has been revelatory. It’s easy to have good technique when you can hang the holds easily. Conversely, almost everyone looks like they’re flailing when thwy’re operating on holds at 99% of their max hang ability.
I once saw a gifted climber who dropped out for a few years and got quite fat, at my local wall. He was flailing and failing on a v3 traverse that I regularly lapped as a last warmup. He looked like he needed technique, but when in shape he had put up FAs of national renown that were not repeated for many many years.
climbing is intrinsically harder on your fingers than finger training (hangboarding, crimp block lifts etc.) since it is so uncontrolled and if your fingers don't respond well to constantly climbing but you can fit in more strength training and finger training to help your fingers continue adapting it seems far more efficient. Technique is not that magically good if you don't have strong durable fingers and when you do ease it back because you feel a tweak coming do you really think you're going to improve that much by doing more volume of stuff in a grade you can already do comfortably when instead you just try to avoid having tweaks come on while getting stronger in days not climbing and pushing grade when you do
@@andysinclair7162 A year ago I did the lattice finger assessment and at the time I lead climbed 6c (I don’t lead much) and was below average for 6c but still within a standard deviation at the 32 percentile. I bouldered V7 and my finger strength was “significantly below what we’d expect at your current boulder grade” it didn’t give a percentile but the graphic shows me well below one standard deviation below the norm. So I am at the bottom of the bell curve in their dataset.
I feel what you say about finger strength being important for if it looks like someone has good technique and often argue this. Many examples of ‘good technique’ are simply techniques that decrease the required body strength or pulling strength but require more fingers strength. Good technique should be somewhat personal taking into account your own strengths and weaknesses. I have weak fingers and grip except for full crimp but very strong pulling strength and flexible hips which leads to some unorthodox (and honestly sometimes inelegant) solutions to boulders.
Stronger fingers makes it easier to implement good beta or technique as you actually have a bit of margin and time to act. They can also mask deficiencies in technique more effectively than other strengths can. I have very weak fingers but I still see plenty of room left for technique improvements at my current grade.
@@andrewhunter6536doing that has helped me recently, I only recently achieved my first V4 outdoors because of it.
Granted, I’ve been climbing for 7 years with over half of it being top rope in a bad top rope only gym (on campus gym was not good but was free so that’s why only climbed there for so long). But even my partner agrees that both hip flexibility and finger strength are my biggest obstacles for progress right now. I couldn’t even hang a 20mm edge at bodyweight when I sent the V4, which is statistically extremely below average finger strength even for that grade. I’ve had a lot of finger injuries that caused a lot of regression. Everyone has a different situation, and overtraining and weak fingers happened to be my issues. So stepping back and using no hangs to strengthen my fingers has been doing wonders for me
@andrewhunter6536 Thanks for the nice detailed reply :-) If you’ve climbed v7 you should manage 7b pretty easily with some practise at leading!
I am also very weak for my grades (v4, 7a) according to lattice. I hang about bodyweight half-crimped, around 110% open handed /chisel.
Agree with your insightful comments about technique vs fingerstrength: at times a brief hard pull with the fingers can avoid a much more physical and draining whole-body sequence. Moonboard is good for seeing that: a lot of the v3s I do entail lower body contortions as I can barely hold the holds; in the beta videos people just jump and catch while swinging the feet out and reset - needs good timing, but also more strength.
ive been climbing for about a moth and just sent my first couple of v4s to be fair indoor. And I had no clue about this type of routine. I really do not want to get injured since I'm a pianist, and defiantly will be implementing this.
Nice to send V4 indoors so quickly! I would definitely suggest easing into hangboarding or avoiding hangboarding altogether when you are so new to climbing, because hangboarding is very aggressive on the fingers and can be a cause for injury. All that is to say I would recommend doing your own research before making a decision to hangboard! Good luck climbing!
thanks, I really do not want to injure anything @@Natemitka
@@notmissunity8240I’ve been climbing for 7 years, and I suggest stick to just climbing right now for improving climbing. You’re early enough that your strength and technique are still really initially developing, no need to do specific exercises or training just yet. You’ll most likely slow down progress by replacing time climbing with training time right now. I typically recommend waiting 6-12 months of regular climbing before looking at hang boarding, it lets your tendons/pulleys to really develop before boosting strength with hang boarding. It also gives you time to really learn techniques and figure out what areas actually need strengthening.
For reference, I managed to get up to V6 and V7 indoor multiple times without ever doing specific training besides climbing. (Regressed a lot due to injuries, so I’d be back to V3-4 at max shortly after hitting V6-7 but I think I have things dialed now). I’m just now getting on a consistent hangboard (no hang with a portable hangboard in my case) routine to rehab my fingers so I can get them back to where they should be strength wise.
Take your time and enjoy the process, fatigue build up from overtraining is a contributing factor to many finger injuries so learn to listen to your body
Nice! Great and honest video! Just a question, do you alternate from week to week the training e.g. Power, endurance, cardio, etc.?
Thank you! I usually will focus my training sessions on any upcoming climbing trips or projects I have. So if I have a big endurance route I want to train I'll opt for more endurance-based stuff. But if I'm really stoked on a boulder I'll focus more on training for power.
My new favourrite climbing chanel
That means so much!
At the crags in my local area sport grades are a lot stiffer than boulders. I can do a V5-V6 outdoor boulder but a high 5.11 is absolutely desperate. I think if your local sport crag, like mine, is full of hard slab, footwork is the surefire way of sending hard climbs. I know climbers who can't do a V4 slightly overhung do slab I think is desperate. I think you're tutorial is accurate for vertical or overhung. Obviously you need some crimp strength for slabs but the footwork is also crucial.
Totally, I didn't even touch on footwork. Also, if this video were to be about crack climbing I'm sure it would be a totally different protocol!
Thanks Nathan
You’re welcome!
You can hangboard before climbing. Your fingers are ready to go and you don't loose too much strength because of it. Therefore you can do one more climbing session with focus on volume.
So 1/3 more climbing with an extra rest day
Agree with this, esp once you have a good few months hangboarding experience in the bank.
Really struggling with fingers feeling sore and overused for a long period of time now. Stumbled upon this video and it seems you've experienced the same. I also saw your video on Emil's protocol. Would you do that first for 30 days? Or jump right on the 10s+50s*15 protocol?
Bummer about your fingers! To be honest it's hard to judge. I started hangboarding 10s+50s*15 when I was relatively healthy, and I also started Emil's program without any prior injuries. I don't know how having an injury such as yours would impact either routine. But hangboarding at low intensity, especially Emil's routine has often been seen as a great injury prevention tool. So I'd try one out and see how you're fingers are feeling. Definitely ease into it. Make sure the fingers aren't feeling bad the day after. That's just my advice!
So would you say that you've cut down the overall climbing+training volume by ~half? 😄 Maybe that was the real game changer -- enough recovery between sessions to both have the energy and time for your body to heal. Finger training is definitely important, I'm just wondering what had a greater effect 😁
Anyway! All the best and good job for breaking the plateau! 😍
What did u use to grade v4? Was it gym grade or outdoor grade or moon/kilter ?
Outdoor grade! I should have clarified
Very cool video, nicely done.
so... not climb too much and hangboard more... to climb better, the few times you get to climb.
That is kind of sad, I love spending more time in the gym climbing.
I guess I'll hangboard more at the gym. (Cheers neighbor, that looks like Baker there)
Thank you! Yes some was shot in Baker :)
So you're doing hangboard -> climb -> hangboard on 3 consecutive days? Seems like a tooon of finger stimulus with so little rest; My gut feeling is that it would injure my fingers pretty fast but then again, I never tried.
I don’t strictly follow hangboard climb hangboard, I just try to hangboard two days of the week on days I am not climbing. I have had similar fears of overdoing it with my fingers, but every time I go to hangboard it has been OK! And that’s been 7 months of it. Even on days before or after Moon Boarding
@@Natemitka Do you still do the first hangboard routine on your hangboard days or is it just max hangs on those days now?
@@celestial72 I will still do the first hangboard routine. I probably do half of them as max hangs and half as the first routine! I’m still easing into max hangs and I am trying to avoid injury by doing to much to fast
TBH I think it doesn't need to be this complicated. You said you avoided climbing on boards because they were discouragingly hard. But trying hard is an excellent way to learn. What's going to happen when you stop seeing easy gains on finger boarding and you hit another climbing plateau?
Oh I’m still climbing on boards. If anything I’m doing a board session for every gym climbing session. I only disliked the boards before I started being more dedicated to a training routine
I feel sorry for your injuries. I'm 42, and after 15 months of climbing, I haven't had any injuries at all. My indoor plateau is V7 on the slab and V6 overhung. I think routine hand boarding and moon boarding help me too.
Would you like any more assistance with this?
Glad to hear that you are injury free!
It's crazy to me that a person would be climbing V4 for 8 years and not think to change things up until after 8 years have expired.
some people climb for fun and not for chasing grades
@@carlosr6462 slowly improving over time doesn't necessarily mean "chasing grades". But I agree with you climbing for fun should be a big priority.
@@carlosr6462it’s fun to get better at what you enjoy doing
@@iansane1928I agree with you. I feel like a big part of the fun about climbing is getting better. That's why we are all here, watching this video!
I bet you could have kept the 3-4 days climbing/week but just lowered your overall volume and would have seen better results since you're getting in more skill work.
Might not be a bad idea, and I may resort to something like this if I notice my fingers can handle the load. I’ve just found a routine that works for me so I want to make sure I don’t rush out of it too quickly!
Your weekly schedule looks pretty bad imo which probably contributed to your plateau. You climb on friday and then dont get back on the wall until wednesday. Thats not nearly enough volume if you want to progress at climbing. I would also spread your workload throughout the week.
Thursday youre only doing a quick hangboard workout, then you rest for the remainder of thursday + all of friday, climb saturday and then you take 2 whole days off before doing another quick hangboard session.
You should probably add in 2 more climbing days per week. Not every session has to be limit projecting but you need a lot more volume
Those schedules weren't strictly followed in terms of "every wednesday I do this", it's more to get an idea of how much I was climbing per week. I had to find something that worked for me, and honestly I think decreasing the amount of days I spent climbing was critical for me to be able to progress without injury. I realize it may not be ideal for everyone, a lot of climbers can handle more load than me, but this is what worked for me. Thank you for your comment!
@@Natemitka were all of your session the same intensity? Or did you have certain days focused on limit moves and other days focused on slab/working weaknesses in your technique?
Of course the average person can't climb at their limit 5 or 6 days per week, but you can definitely spend more than 2 days per week climbing. Thats just enough to maintain where you're at, not enough to actually get better
@@AMM1998 I would say in the past I did a mixture of lead climbing in the gym, bouldering on other days, and if I was going on a trip that was a specific style I would train that style for the trip. I.e. Indian Creek trips I would train crack climbing, Shelf Road I would train crimps! A lot of the sessions I used to do would end at my limit, and that probably didn’t help out my case!
I'm a V4,V5,V6 climber, I got here by just climbing in gyms XD.
Love it! Whatever works!
I just got my first v8 today and I only climb in gyms, never hang boarded
@@username-lj6tl do you think you’ll try hangboarding? Might see some massive improvements
5.12 is harder than v4.
I've seen comparison charts online that state the hardest move on a 5.12 is equal to the hardest move on a V4 boulder, hence the comparison. This is definitely not a hard and fast rule, because depending on the movement and style of climbing V4 and 5.12 can feel super different
@Natemitka i don't know what to say. Those comparison charts are wrong?
No offense but spending multiple years at v4 (assuming gym grading) seems completely a-typical and unnaturally weak. No average person should need specific training to get passed v4. Just climb and you'll be there in a year. If you are athletic to begin with, you'll get to v5 in a couple months.
it depends, if it is v4 at japan bpump, you definitely need specific strength training
@@mrwhitecc haha, Japan gyms are insane.
I totally get the feedback and I appreciate your comment. For starters, i should have clarified that im talking about outdoor grades. 5.12s outside are incredibly difficult, and I’ve been impressed with how much harder that is than any V4 gym boulder indoors. I think my biggest issue is, and a lot of other people as well, is that they start getting close to 5.12 but then get injured in the fingers.
I agree, it's wild to me that he didn't improve at all for years. Even if you lack technique, you'd learn it in such time. Something doesn't add up.
@@Natemitka outdoor grading completely changes the discussion. Those are stiff grades
I'm not even European, but I did a double take at you calling Dave MacLeod a UK crusher. Not sure if it was an intentional snide on your part, or if you're unaware of the discord around Scottish people and their back and forth with independence.
Oh! No that was my mistake!
I just cut that part out!
It's really not that deep, Scotland is currently part of the UK even though it will hopefully get it's independence. It's not like calling a Irish / northern Irish person British or something
"you should listen to me because I'm not a crusher... Oh, so, this crusher told me that..." 🙄
I realize how that sounds...haha. I think a lot of the advice on the internet is done by the elite level of performers, and while yes, I took into account elite climbers advice, not all crusher's advice can be applied to everyone and I wanted to provide advice form someone who actually saw a lot of improvements from following some training protocols.
I get that you're just trying to make content, but I don't think anyone should take advice from someone who took a decade to reach V5/12a lol. Climbing in the gym should be plenty, so long as you challenge yourself and rest adequately.
What're your thoughts on when people should start to incorporate hangboarding? People on YT talk a out it like it's the coming of Jesus in terms of magically jumping up grades
I wanted to share my experience in hopes of reaching people who share a similar experience of getting injured from overclimbing, and also not hangboarding. I also reached 5.12a outside within my first two years of climbing, which I was pretty stoked for, but then the injuries started piling on. I ruptured a pulley projecting a 5.12c outdoors, and then pretty much stayed climbing 11s for the last 8 years! I definitely understand the content in this video might not be for everyone, but I see a lot of different climbing videos about how to get past this plateau so I thought I would offer my experience!
I disagree with this. Actually people who climb v10 in a year are far less useful for most people … because they’re the top 0.1% of the genetically-gifted strength and skill bell curve and often they don’t even know it. “A few one handed crimps on a 12mm edge and I sent my first V13” ain’t that relatable, or helpful!!
This is the worst advice ever. Climbing V4 and V5 outdoors mostly takes fundamental footwork and climbing skills. Almost every boulder on the Moonboard is physically harder than outdoor V4s.
do you have some good tips for managing stressed finger? Not a rupture. Just general pain when climbing hard. Do you take a break from climbing entirely, or just tone it down?
Does it hurt from the moment you start climbing? or when you start climbing hard? When I rehab finger injuries I try to do as much research as possible on the finger before making decisions. If it's serious, see a doctor. I recommend watching some videos on the Hooper's Beta UA-cam channel about rehabbing finger injuries. One of the better pieces of advice I've gotten is to pay attention to recovery time when rehabbing injuries. Does your finger feel worse the next day after climbing? Then maybe you're climbing too hard. If it can recover in a day, then you're probably climbing at the right effort to rehab the injury. I recommend regulating how hard you try when injured. For instance, try 8 out of 10 effort, or 4 out of 10 effort until it doesn't hurt the next day. Everyone's different though so take what I say with a grain of salt.
@@Natemitka Thanks for the in-depth answer I'll give that a go! Yea, it's usually fine when climbing normal/easy, but when climbing hard it starts hurting. Just taking a while to get better, so wasn't quite sure if taking a break would speed up the recovery process or not. Considering it does feel pretty similar the day after climbing, not really worse nor better. Last thing I want is a tendon tear, so the more conservative approach is probably for me. :D
I think the biggest roadblock preventing people from sending past V4 is the massive change in overall intensity. The moves may still be doable, but you'll have to try incredibly hard. Easier said than done though, giving even 80-90% effort is psychologically a difficult thing. Once I started consciously trying to put out as much effort as I possibly could (of course being careful of injuries in the process), I found myself breaking into the V5-V7 range.