Im not sure if this will ever be seen, but it is super important to keep in mind that these are PRO trainings. Whenever I trained remotely similar to pro climbers i managed to injure myself. Endurance training is probably less risky, but still be aware that we are saddly not adapted to the training of these guys so just be careful, always warm up, and listen to your body. Great video anyway
hah thanks. I agree. These types of routines aren't for everyone. I think Stefano's and Dave's were pretty safe, but I definitely wouldn't want to attempt Adam's workout that often. For now I plan to just keep doing Stefano's doubles style workouts!
@@Natemitka Yeah, generally I think rope stuff is alway a tad safer. My first finger injury was going climbing after fingerboarding, because a friend offerd out of the blue and who says no to that? A pro could 100% pull this of but not me. With Adams routine your feet will be popping off and you will fall by design, and thats where finger injuries start. Also it's very hard to accuretaly gage the limit of your tendons and pullies.
You always have to build up an adaptation to training, luckily I started climbing as someone who already weightlifts and trains every day, so taking under a high volume of training was manageable, still it took a period of tendon adaptation to get to where I am now.
Great video! Good job, really high quality as well. Endurance training is so interesting, everbody swears on a different approach. Of course all of the three are for totally different types of endurance, everybody has different goals, strengths and weaknesses. It would be nice to see you do one of these for a long period of time, and see how you progress.
Thanks so much! I think I am most interested in continuing Stefano’s workout because that felt the closest to what I want to get better at (sport climbing)
@@Natemitka I tried that one as well, very hard to choose the right difficulty as you sad. I usually went with something that I have tried before, and I nearly managed to do it on my first try. Right around flash level. I was also always debating if I should untie and go lead again. I usually went straight back on the wall on toprope again so i can minimise rest, trying to climb with the same pace as i would on lead. Of course it is not so good in a bigger overhang.
A method that I was taught for endurance was to pick a route that's really easy, like a 5.8 or 5.9. For the first week, you climb up and down-climb for 10 minutes straight, 5 minute break, then climb again. Do this, say, 5 times. The next week you do 15 minutes, with a 5 minute break, 4 times. The third week, you do 20 minutes straight, 5 minute break, three times. The last week was 30 minutes, break, twice. When you're climbing, you try to be very conscious about NOT taking rests on the wall. You just go at a steady, easy pace the entire time. I generally had a tough time getting pumped after this. It's super boring though, and you either need an auto-belay or a very supportive belayer.
fun video to binge! Cool to see videos on endurance side of training. I highly recommend taking a look at "Training for Sport Climbing" an online pdf note written up by Alex Barrow. Using terminology from sports science, stephano's workout works your aerobic capacity (with a mix of aero-power. It really depends on how you manage rest times). Dave's workout (also called ARCing) builds up aerobic capacity. And Adam's workout looks like anaerobic power (the goal is to recover quickly from doing hard moves). The last area of endurance training that wasn't included is anaerobic capacity; here you would do 4 x 4s, ensuring long rest between each set of 4 hard boulders.
and while all of these names sound uselessly fancy, the point really is that they form placeholder names for specific metabolic / local cardiovascular adaptations that happen in your forearms when we train. For e.g., with Dave's ARCing circuits, you may not feel like you're training hard, but the increased blood flow over LONG DURATIONS of time in your forearms produces a shearing effect on the capillary walls which leads to increased capillarisation in your forearms. This means shorter blood diffusion distances, meaning faster waste removal and oxygen delivery to your forearm muscles for aerobic respiration!
another thing to note about Adam's workout is that anaerobic power doesn't last. The adaptations come quickly but also disappear quickly without upkeep. Hence, most athletes only train them in the last 4-8 wks nearing their peak performance phase! On the other hand, adaptations related to aerocap and ancap are more long lasting, but also take a longer time to build. They're very good investments to be made during base phase! If you look at Stefano's critical force (in lattice training's test), it's off the charts. I think part of this is explained by his long-term commitment to training to aerobic capacity, which has raised his climbing to a level where he can do the equivalent of a "4min/km marathon race pace" in climbing
Love the thoughtfulness here! I didn't know that about Adam's 4x4x4 workout and the effects disappearing. I will definitely take a look at that Training for Sport Climbing online pdf! Thanks!
@@Natemitka glad that you find it interesting! I think i should make some clarifications about the 4 x 4 workout The way to adapt the 4 x 4 workout from an "anaerobic-power" workout to a "anaerobic capacity" workout is to play with the intensity and rest time. The key similarity between these two workouts is that you are on the wall for an intense 1min - 3min, which heavily taxes the anaerobic glycolytic (energy) system. Longer rest times (1:5 or 1:6 work-rest cycle) and higher intensity translate to "anaerobic capacity", while shorter rest times (1:2 or 1:3 work-rest cycle) and lower intensity translates to "anaerobic power". If i had to guess, the "4min" rest basically implements a 1:2 work-rest cycle. Ondra's 1min rest is even more brutal (at a 2:1 work rest).
@@Natemitka and lastly, i definitely still recommend sticking to the "anaerobic capacity" version of the 4x4 for boulderers. It's one of the painful but tried and tested ways to improve your speed of recovery and power output. Looking forward to your next youtube video on endurance training, whatever the narrative may look like! :)
Stephano training is the good tool to get a solid endurance base for lead climbing. It's also good mentally to just get used to long routes, and helps to get rid of overgriping habit. Dave's training shouldn't pump you at any point it's typical ARC, you usually do in a preparation phase of a training plan(if you do periodization), or between other workout as a tool to boost regeneration. Something Like 3 x 20min/10min would be probably a good start for someone who isn't used to this type of training. Adam's training is typical Power endurance workout you do to get in top fitness to perform on your project, or competition. It's not like these workouts can be treated as serving the same purpose. They each have their place in the well balanced routine. If you want to lead climb at least. If you just purely boulder, you can most likely get away without type of training Stephano does, and some might say, also without type of training Dave does, but again ARCing has it's benefits even for people not really interested in endurance based climbing. And adding high volume, low intensity sessions between full power ones, might be more beneficial than just resting, or overreaching with too much high intensity packed plan.
If it's all about consistency, what about trying them each for 2months on a regular basis, tuning them to be able to sustain them... And compare the results on benchmark endurance route ? What is the most effective ? What is the most challenging to sustain (for workload, time commitment, fingers or else) ?
I pushed my endurance by smashing lots of routes and getting my self up to 4 hrs long sessions. Even if your pumped just wait a few min and push through the next. The more your pumped in training the least you will be on projects. Just climb
The thing with any new workout is to start slow. If it says do 10 sets, don't do 10 sets right away. If you overdo it, you may end up sore for a week and all your workouts will stall. Rather do 5 sets or even less first day, check how your body reacts and then gradually increase it. Otherwise, if you rip off your finger skin or get a muscle strain, when will you be coming back to your usual climbing routine?
I know you don't put out much trad videos but would you like to climb together sometime? I moved to Denver and hit all the same gyms, I might have just been walking past you a few times!
Hi the trick he learned me was this, look at your/ my fingertip and if you see its good but don’t feel it anymore, weigh the hold by leaning back or move just trust and bite your teeth. Better holds hopefully come soon. And it works but feels weird in the beginning
Oddly, I regularly climb boulder problems 5 times with little rest back to back as training, but I still feel like power endurance is a weakness for me. I think a lot of endurance is purely mental.
Will add - there is some science to all this. Getting flash pumped on your first few routes is one of the biggest mistakes - as it prohibits proper recruitment. The goal isn't to climb until failure - at least not until the end of the routine. Any of these 3 programs can accomplish the same result - but you need know how to tailor both the routes as well as how you climb them to be most effective. For eg - the 'Dave Macleod' version you did was likely far too easy for you. This kind of climbing may help with general fitness - but not improve your strength or stamina - because it is not stressing your body for enough of an adaptive response. The practicalities of life play a huge role here as well. Do you really have 3-4 hours twice a day to simply 'get pumped'? Do you really have a patient belayer and a couple hours for the Ghisolfi method? Which of these approaches offer best bang for buck? My money for climbers in the 5.10-5.12 range is on the 4X4s - with other more intense (but less pumpy) climbing to supplement. You can bang out a solo session in an hour or so. My basic rubric is to choose/build problems I can flash (but some degree of difficulty). You will see much faster gains. cheers
Love the comment. I agree on the 4x4 being the most bang for your buck and maybe the most realistic for frequent sessions where you don't need partners. Thank you!
Im not sure if this will ever be seen, but it is super important to keep in mind that these are PRO trainings. Whenever I trained remotely similar to pro climbers i managed to injure myself. Endurance training is probably less risky, but still be aware that we are saddly not adapted to the training of these guys so just be careful, always warm up, and listen to your body. Great video anyway
hah thanks. I agree. These types of routines aren't for everyone. I think Stefano's and Dave's were pretty safe, but I definitely wouldn't want to attempt Adam's workout that often. For now I plan to just keep doing Stefano's doubles style workouts!
@@Natemitka Yeah, generally I think rope stuff is alway a tad safer. My first finger injury was going climbing after fingerboarding, because a friend offerd out of the blue and who says no to that? A pro could 100% pull this of but not me. With Adams routine your feet will be popping off and you will fall by design, and thats where finger injuries start. Also it's very hard to accuretaly gage the limit of your tendons and pullies.
You always have to build up an adaptation to training, luckily I started climbing as someone who already weightlifts and trains every day, so taking under a high volume of training was manageable, still it took a period of tendon adaptation to get to where I am now.
The Ondra one seems brutal!
So hard. Ondra is next level!
Really love your videos, keep them coming please :)
Thank you so much! It means a lot :)
Cool video! Glad you tried it out for me
Glad you liked it!
Great video! Good job, really high quality as well. Endurance training is so interesting, everbody swears on a different approach. Of course all of the three are for totally different types of endurance, everybody has different goals, strengths and weaknesses. It would be nice to see you do one of these for a long period of time, and see how you progress.
Thanks so much! I think I am most interested in continuing Stefano’s workout because that felt the closest to what I want to get better at (sport climbing)
@@Natemitka I tried that one as well, very hard to choose the right difficulty as you sad. I usually went with something that I have tried before, and I nearly managed to do it on my first try. Right around flash level. I was also always debating if I should untie and go lead again. I usually went straight back on the wall on toprope again so i can minimise rest, trying to climb with the same pace as i would on lead. Of course it is not so good in a bigger overhang.
A method that I was taught for endurance was to pick a route that's really easy, like a 5.8 or 5.9. For the first week, you climb up and down-climb for 10 minutes straight, 5 minute break, then climb again. Do this, say, 5 times. The next week you do 15 minutes, with a 5 minute break, 4 times. The third week, you do 20 minutes straight, 5 minute break, three times. The last week was 30 minutes, break, twice. When you're climbing, you try to be very conscious about NOT taking rests on the wall. You just go at a steady, easy pace the entire time. I generally had a tough time getting pumped after this. It's super boring though, and you either need an auto-belay or a very supportive belayer.
fun video to binge! Cool to see videos on endurance side of training. I highly recommend taking a look at "Training for Sport Climbing" an online pdf note written up by Alex Barrow. Using terminology from sports science,
stephano's workout works your aerobic capacity (with a mix of aero-power. It really depends on how you manage rest times).
Dave's workout (also called ARCing) builds up aerobic capacity.
And Adam's workout looks like anaerobic power (the goal is to recover quickly from doing hard moves).
The last area of endurance training that wasn't included is anaerobic capacity; here you would do 4 x 4s, ensuring long rest between each set of 4 hard boulders.
and while all of these names sound uselessly fancy, the point really is that they form placeholder names for specific metabolic / local cardiovascular adaptations that happen in your forearms when we train.
For e.g., with Dave's ARCing circuits, you may not feel like you're training hard, but the increased blood flow over LONG DURATIONS of time in your forearms produces a shearing effect on the capillary walls which leads to increased capillarisation in your forearms. This means shorter blood diffusion distances, meaning faster waste removal and oxygen delivery to your forearm muscles for aerobic respiration!
another thing to note about Adam's workout is that anaerobic power doesn't last. The adaptations come quickly but also disappear quickly without upkeep. Hence, most athletes only train them in the last 4-8 wks nearing their peak performance phase!
On the other hand, adaptations related to aerocap and ancap are more long lasting, but also take a longer time to build. They're very good investments to be made during base phase! If you look at Stefano's critical force (in lattice training's test), it's off the charts. I think part of this is explained by his long-term commitment to training to aerobic capacity, which has raised his climbing to a level where he can do the equivalent of a "4min/km marathon race pace" in climbing
Love the thoughtfulness here! I didn't know that about Adam's 4x4x4 workout and the effects disappearing. I will definitely take a look at that Training for Sport Climbing online pdf! Thanks!
@@Natemitka glad that you find it interesting!
I think i should make some clarifications about the 4 x 4 workout The way to adapt the 4 x 4 workout from an "anaerobic-power" workout to a "anaerobic capacity" workout is to play with the intensity and rest time.
The key similarity between these two workouts is that you are on the wall for an intense 1min - 3min, which heavily taxes the anaerobic glycolytic (energy) system.
Longer rest times (1:5 or 1:6 work-rest cycle) and higher intensity translate to "anaerobic capacity", while shorter rest times (1:2 or 1:3 work-rest cycle) and lower intensity translates to "anaerobic power".
If i had to guess, the "4min" rest basically implements a 1:2 work-rest cycle. Ondra's 1min rest is even more brutal (at a 2:1 work rest).
@@Natemitka and lastly, i definitely still recommend sticking to the "anaerobic capacity" version of the 4x4 for boulderers. It's one of the painful but tried and tested ways to improve your speed of recovery and power output.
Looking forward to your next youtube video on endurance training, whatever the narrative may look like! :)
Stephano training is the good tool to get a solid endurance base for lead climbing. It's also good mentally to just get used to long routes, and helps to get rid of overgriping habit.
Dave's training shouldn't pump you at any point it's typical ARC, you usually do in a preparation phase of a training plan(if you do periodization), or between other workout as a tool to boost regeneration. Something Like 3 x 20min/10min would be probably a good start for someone who isn't used to this type of training.
Adam's training is typical Power endurance workout you do to get in top fitness to perform on your project, or competition.
It's not like these workouts can be treated as serving the same purpose. They each have their place in the well balanced routine. If you want to lead climb at least. If you just purely boulder, you can most likely get away without type of training Stephano does, and some might say, also without type of training Dave does, but again ARCing has it's benefits even for people not really interested in endurance based climbing. And adding high volume, low intensity sessions between full power ones, might be more beneficial than just resting, or overreaching with too much high intensity packed plan.
If it's all about consistency, what about trying them each for 2months on a regular basis, tuning them to be able to sustain them... And compare the results on benchmark endurance route ?
What is the most effective ?
What is the most challenging to sustain (for workload, time commitment, fingers or else) ?
Great video, would have been more accessible to have V & font grade also. Save me googling 😂
Oh gosh. Gotta keep that in mind! Sorry haha
I pushed my endurance by smashing lots of routes and getting my self up to 4 hrs long sessions. Even if your pumped just wait a few min and push through the next. The more your pumped in training the least you will be on projects.
Just climb
The thing with any new workout is to start slow. If it says do 10 sets, don't do 10 sets right away. If you overdo it, you may end up sore for a week and all your workouts will stall. Rather do 5 sets or even less first day, check how your body reacts and then gradually increase it. Otherwise, if you rip off your finger skin or get a muscle strain, when will you be coming back to your usual climbing routine?
I love this advice, and when I’m adopting something new I always try to end workouts early without overdoing it!
I know you don't put out much trad videos but would you like to climb together sometime? I moved to Denver and hit all the same gyms, I might have just been walking past you a few times!
For sure! Sounds like fun Jake! Love your videos
My teacher told me just learn to endure it and still climb that last bit. It cannot be totally avoided
I like that advice
Hi the trick he learned me was this, look at your/ my fingertip and if you see its good but don’t feel it anymore, weigh the hold by leaning back or move just trust and bite your teeth. Better holds hopefully come soon. And it works but feels weird in the beginning
Oddly, I regularly climb boulder problems 5 times with little rest back to back as training, but I still feel like power endurance is a weakness for me. I think a lot of endurance is purely mental.
Hey... I know those walls! :D
Woooooo!
broo what is 5.10+
Sorry :( 5.10+ is 6B/6B+. I'll include grade conversions in future videos!
Will add - there is some science to all this. Getting flash pumped on your first few routes is one of the biggest mistakes - as it prohibits proper recruitment. The goal isn't to climb until failure - at least not until the end of the routine. Any of these 3 programs can accomplish the same result - but you need know how to tailor both the routes as well as how you climb them to be most effective.
For eg - the 'Dave Macleod' version you did was likely far too easy for you. This kind of climbing may help with general fitness - but not improve your strength or stamina - because it is not stressing your body for enough of an adaptive response.
The practicalities of life play a huge role here as well. Do you really have 3-4 hours twice a day to simply 'get pumped'? Do you really have a patient belayer and a couple hours for the Ghisolfi method? Which of these approaches offer best bang for buck?
My money for climbers in the 5.10-5.12 range is on the 4X4s - with other more intense (but less pumpy) climbing to supplement. You can bang out a solo session in an hour or so. My basic rubric is to choose/build problems I can flash (but some degree of difficulty). You will see much faster gains.
cheers
Love the comment. I agree on the 4x4 being the most bang for your buck and maybe the most realistic for frequent sessions where you don't need partners. Thank you!