On the topic of efficiency, it seemed, to my rather horrific climber's eye, that Louis' climbing style focused on the efficiency of a single attempt whereas Mat's style focused on the efficiency of the number of attempts which is where I think most of the differences originated. Louis is very cognazinant that if he falls, he can easily just try again. While Mat climbs, seemingly, with the mind that he must succeed on the first attempt. Which is pretty much exactly in line with the mindsets that one would expect to grow in their respective climbing environments.
I think it is interesting to draw a parallel that Louis climbing environment has nurtured his "riskier" and more efficient style. It makes total sense that Mat, a soloist, would try to eliminate risk. I think you could argue that Louis, a comp climber. would also massively benefit from never falling/ always doing boulders first go. I think it tracks that Louis has developed his style around the movements he enjoys and the movements presented to him in a competition environment, and that he happens to have become very efficient at performing in that style in an effort to perform at a higher level and for longer without relying on getting stronger.
That is a hard perspective for me to have. In one hand, yes there is a difference. On the other hand, you would have to see how long it took a climber, work hours, to get to a certain grade, or level, before you could say which one is better. Also, the benefits of each can be separated into different gains that one can take with them when they are not climbing. SO SO much can go into this before conclusions can be made.
There was a climber at the world champs in the para category (I can't remember his name) but he basically had no movement in his legs and campused up the entire lead wall which was so impressive. It would be really cool to see a movement comparison with some of the para climbers too and also see if Louis could match their styles
Having gone to raven's wall this week and trying that pink one, you can't imagine how each move looked impossible. It's so cool seeing you climb the routes that I keep wondering who is strong enough to do them
I climb twisty like Matt but dynamic like Louis and one big issue with the dynamic movement is it becomes a lot harder to execute perfectly on your first attempt specifically when you are onsighting and don’t know what the holds feel like. In a gym I’ve got a good idea of what a hold I’ve never touched will feel like just from looking but outdoors they are way more nuanced and going quickly into something adds a lot more unpredictability. Once you know everything though moving faster is almost always going to be more efficient
Yeah when you go to your local gym you know all the holds pretty well, so you know what the hold gonna feel like before having ever tried the boulder. They only have so many holds and if you're there multiple times a week you get to know them all. (unless your gym has an insane collection of holds)
Spot on, dynamic rock overs work a hell of lot better on a Moonboard flash than 2/3 of the way up a sport route onsight. Good incentive to learn drop knees when you've been burnt by poorer than expected holds a few times
Your videos have helped me tremendously in my learning!! One tip that I CONSTANTLY forward and use all the time is that a hold that doesn't feel too good only needs to be good enough for one second - this enables me to trust a greater variety of holds/ steps and also makea me move more fluidly and dynamic, it's really a game changer for me!!!🤩
Love these comparison videos. The way you break down movement helps give insight when watching my own climbing videos, looking at inefficiencies and weaknesses.
I would've liked to see you trying each others beta. Since the climbs are clearly under your levels, you could probably do them differently. Fun to see how you often coach people to climb like Matt (twisty), but do everything square on yourself.
Super interesting ! I really like the fact that, even at this level, it is possible to approach a climb very differently. The detailed analysis of your movements was also insightful, thank you!
This was super interesting! It’s pretty crazy how I’ve never paid attention to the twisty vs square on style of climbing. Now that I think about it I’m twistier static on stuff about 2 grades below my max and more dynamic and square on at my current max (v6-ish).
Great illustration of how the styles of experienced climbers look in direct comparison on the wall. Both moved without much visible hesitation. Enjoyed the beta discussion as well ;)
Totally agree with Mat on sticking to what you like doing. Bit of everything for variety yes, but not to the point of evening everything out if all you climb outdoors is in a certain style.
Amazing video as always but Ithink the best way to see the differences in your climb is one climbing one the other person does not look ! This way we would really have the proper method each one would really uses without being influenced
More of this kind of stuff please! the rest of your videos are also great, obviously, but I perticularly enjoyed seeing deep dives into technique in action
Man, this is super interesting to see such different styles from high level climbers. It gives us mere mortals hope that as long as we lean into our strengths, shore up the really bad weaknesses, we have a shot at becoming much better versions of ourselves!
Great video as always, and awesome to see you work on the set at Ravens! There is a 100$ shipping cost to get the Frictitious hangboard and doorway mount to the UK + import tax though..! :'(
Always informative Louis much appreciated, saw mat at the Brit rock thing in sheff, top lad- as a fellow ex ruffian it's awesome to see how he's turned his life around. Wish I'd have got into climbing sooner would have saved me some grief... Would love to see some of that mountain soloing if you can figure out the filming logistics without too much shaky headcam! That mountain stuff is the what got me started and is strangely zen if the heads in the right place Nice one to all involved
This was a great comparison video. Really appreciate the observations and time. And, it was wild to finally recognize the climbing gym you are in. It looked so familiar and then you showed the name on the wall. I hit up Ravenswall one night while in London for the London New Year's Day Parade @londonparade
I want to see more sponsored bits where Ink is doing the sponsored part :D I don’t need a hang board, but I do want a hang board that I can try hangboarding on while wearing a cat on my shoulders…
If these walls were an additional 30 feet tall then Matt’s style would really start to show as superior. Louis’ style is a lot of additional force on finger joints that’s great for short boulders but exhausting on longer trad climbs
That is RavensWall! When did you record this? I climb there often, but I have never seen you there, but I might have seen Mat! And by the way, I tried that pink V7, just because it is my style, even though I climb V5, and I found it very hard.
your core has nothing to do with this move. thats only fingers, arms, shoulders and feet. and holding it longer makes it harder, period. so it depends on how much worse is the first hold compared to the other one. i think the static way is unefficient, but its more controlled.
So cool - I'm really curious now how Louie's style changes on the ropes. Other super strong boulder'ers like Magnus seem to still keep thier style at height. I get super stiff and staic on even the easiest rope climbs
I find it a bit unfair to call one style less efficient unless we are comparing boulders at their limit and we have data comparing a few relevant strength tests. To my eyes the two styles are "different kind of hard" - the committed float style is only efficient once mastered and often requires a power element that may not be one's genetic predisposition , while the safer/twistier thing is more of a "strength" thing and presumably requires more core tension throughout the moves. That said, the relevancy of either style to their natural environment is spot on!
I think if the move is truly risky, Louis will have a really difficult time doing the big dynamic moves because a miss means death or at least a serious injury, so he'd probably freeze and not dare to move further. The instinct to survive will overrule whatever you believe your body can do, at least that's what I think. The WHAT IFS become HUGE in those moments.
I like to go for the twist into the wall with like a drop knee or something, but way too often I twist and am just short of the hold and go "oh for fuck sakes!" before doing the max reach deadpoint and hoping for the best 😅Thats what being 5'2 in a country of giants is like lmao.
Let's try boulder outside together. Without seeing another beta. Mat will use less attempt more than Louis. Outdoor crimp holds is more risky than indoor holds for sure. Mostly hold you have to adjust the body like Mat do before you grab it like sloper crimp, undercling mono. not so easy move.Indoor is more simple movement to figure out. More comfortable.
I feel like mat's climbing is better, since he has an outside specialization and he's climbing represent the risk of hold's breaking. vs loui just goes for it, if it break's a free solo he dies....
In the case of matt knowing him when he started alot of determination and putting every bit of free time he had into the sport, was very willing to learn diffrent styles
@@tacticalchunder1207 I think it's a little dismissive to attribute this to Matt's genetics and free time. He clearly put a lot of conscious effort into his climbing, rather than throwing himself at rocks in his free time.
On the topic of efficiency, it seemed, to my rather horrific climber's eye, that Louis' climbing style focused on the efficiency of a single attempt whereas Mat's style focused on the efficiency of the number of attempts which is where I think most of the differences originated.
Louis is very cognazinant that if he falls, he can easily just try again. While Mat climbs, seemingly, with the mind that he must succeed on the first attempt. Which is pretty much exactly in line with the mindsets that one would expect to grow in their respective climbing environments.
Brilliantly put, I think you're onto something
I think it is interesting to draw a parallel that Louis climbing environment has nurtured his "riskier" and more efficient style. It makes total sense that Mat, a soloist, would try to eliminate risk. I think you could argue that Louis, a comp climber. would also massively benefit from never falling/ always doing boulders first go. I think it tracks that Louis has developed his style around the movements he enjoys and the movements presented to him in a competition environment, and that he happens to have become very efficient at performing in that style in an effort to perform at a higher level and for longer without relying on getting stronger.
That is a hard perspective for me to have. In one hand, yes there is a difference. On the other hand, you would have to see how long it took a climber, work hours, to get to a certain grade, or level, before you could say which one is better. Also, the benefits of each can be separated into different gains that one can take with them when they are not climbing. SO SO much can go into this before conclusions can be made.
Many comp climbing routes couldn't be climbed with how Matt does then. Louis has to climb like that in comps.
Not only that, but by doing it statically the weight of his feet do consistently take more weight off his hands
One of the best climbing videos I’ve seen, really cool discussion of beta. Going to compare the straight on vs twist style with my friends at the gym
+
Quite possibly one of the funniest comments I’ve seen out of context.🤣
Theres something hilarious about two climbers picking rock first try 😂
Can’t believe this comment doesn’t have more likes
I was searching for this comment hahaha. And I was not disappointed
Mat has such a calm and kind aura, I enjoy your videos with him a lot
There was a climber at the world champs in the para category (I can't remember his name) but he basically had no movement in his legs and campused up the entire lead wall which was so impressive. It would be really cool to see a movement comparison with some of the para climbers too and also see if Louis could match their styles
Yeah, that could be interesting.
Having gone to raven's wall this week and trying that pink one, you can't imagine how each move looked impossible. It's so cool seeing you climb the routes that I keep wondering who is strong enough to do them
I climb twisty like Matt but dynamic like Louis and one big issue with the dynamic movement is it becomes a lot harder to execute perfectly on your first attempt specifically when you are onsighting and don’t know what the holds feel like. In a gym I’ve got a good idea of what a hold I’ve never touched will feel like just from looking but outdoors they are way more nuanced and going quickly into something adds a lot more unpredictability. Once you know everything though moving faster is almost always going to be more efficient
Yeah when you go to your local gym you know all the holds pretty well, so you know what the hold gonna feel like before having ever tried the boulder. They only have so many holds and if you're there multiple times a week you get to know them all. (unless your gym has an insane collection of holds)
Spot on, dynamic rock overs work a hell of lot better on a Moonboard flash than 2/3 of the way up a sport route onsight. Good incentive to learn drop knees when you've been burnt by poorer than expected holds a few times
Your videos have helped me tremendously in my learning!! One tip that I CONSTANTLY forward and use all the time is that a hold that doesn't feel too good only needs to be good enough for one second - this enables me to trust a greater variety of holds/ steps and also makea me move more fluidly and dynamic, it's really a game changer for me!!!🤩
9:54 what the actual... That was a monster, ankle breaking whip. Can't believe I just saw that without anybody being injured or killed.
Love these comparison videos. The way you break down movement helps give insight when watching my own climbing videos, looking at inefficiencies and weaknesses.
Louis' deadpoint at 15:58 is a work of art 🤌🤌🤌
na, i think on a second try he would have used the momentum to go for the next move while swinging forward.
Nice to see Matt doing the rounds on the British Climbing UA-camrs, was great to see your breakdown of the moves. Great video as always!
I would've liked to see you trying each others beta. Since the climbs are clearly under your levels, you could probably do them differently.
Fun to see how you often coach people to climb like Matt (twisty), but do everything square on yourself.
A Louis video on Hannah's channel yesterday and now here today, what a treat!
Thanks for this episode guys, really interesting! I want to see this promised trad climbing episode with Louis and Matt!!!
Please continue to make these content, it's one of the most intresting in the climbing community !
Good fun! I appreciated the genuine interest both of you show in learning and exploring movement
Super interesting ! I really like the fact that, even at this level, it is possible to approach a climb very differently. The detailed analysis of your movements was also insightful, thank you!
This was super interesting! It’s pretty crazy how I’ve never paid attention to the twisty vs square on style of climbing. Now that I think about it I’m twistier static on stuff about 2 grades below my max and more dynamic and square on at my current max (v6-ish).
Got a giggle out of Matt's comment about Peak lime at 6:24, true enough lol
Great illustration of how the styles of experienced climbers look in direct comparison on the wall. Both moved without much visible hesitation. Enjoyed the beta discussion as well ;)
I love your guys' dynamic
Totally agree with Mat on sticking to what you like doing. Bit of everything for variety yes, but not to the point of evening everything out if all you climb outdoors is in a certain style.
I had just listened to Mat in a podcast, he has such an inspiring story. I'm glad you linked to the film, I was having a hard time finding it
This was a dope episode, cheers!
I keep seeing Anna and Matt everywhere lately and I'm here for it
Any day there's a new climbing video with Louis and Matthew is a good day. 👌
You're way beyond my capabilities, but still so good to watch.
Amazing video as always but Ithink the best way to see the differences in your climb is one climbing one the other person does not look ! This way we would really have the proper method each one would really uses without being influenced
What an excellent video! Please make more of this content. Really interesting to compare and analyse the little details👌🏼
More of this kind of stuff please! the rest of your videos are also great, obviously, but I perticularly enjoyed seeing deep dives into technique in action
Matt's film is part of Brit Rock V. Click on that to see the trailer. Looks super badass.
Cool video. It would be interesting to see the same look at movement but on low consequence outdoor boulders.
I can imagine the setter of the "v12" slab just eating their hands
Idk if your editing but either way… this is wicked bro I love your content 👍🏼👍🏼
Pro high-five-clap-Tipp! Always look at the elbows from each other while clapping. You will never miss that again. 👏
Man, this is super interesting to see such different styles from high level climbers. It gives us mere mortals hope that as long as we lean into our strengths, shore up the really bad weaknesses, we have a shot at becoming much better versions of ourselves!
Would love to see you trying each others beta.
Outstanding episode, guys. 💪
Incredible video, thank you for posting.
Best vid ever!
Now I have reason to keep going!!! Soft grade V10, I'm coming! 🤪
Super interesting topic, really like this kind of content! Thanks
Really digging this format, learned loads 👍🏻
it is pretty cool to see those two styles because i always thought higher ratet climbs like V8s are very strikted by the way they are set.-nice video
This was so good, thank you both! Would’ve loved to see a beta-swap tho!
Awesome comparison! Now do the same thing outdoors! 😍
Really enjoyed this video and both of your feedback on each other, great content!
You two are awesome to watch
And there is so much to learn with two extreme different styles
Great video as always, and awesome to see you work on the set at Ravens! There is a 100$ shipping cost to get the Frictitious hangboard and doorway mount to the UK + import tax though..! :'(
You guys need to climb together more. Just great all round energy and some real expertise. I love the side by side break down 👌🏻
That was so good!!! More of this!
Great video. Be nice to see a repeat in the other person's style where two climbers differ considerably.
That was super interesting to watch!
It would be interesting to see a force meter on the holds for that drop knee to see whose having to pull harder as a percentage of body weight
Always informative Louis much appreciated, saw mat at the Brit rock thing in sheff, top lad- as a fellow ex ruffian it's awesome to see how he's turned his life around. Wish I'd have got into climbing sooner would have saved me some grief...
Would love to see some of that mountain soloing if you can figure out the filming logistics without too much shaky headcam! That mountain stuff is the what got me started and is strangely zen if the heads in the right place
Nice one to all involved
This was a great comparison video. Really appreciate the observations and time. And, it was wild to finally recognize the climbing gym you are in. It looked so familiar and then you showed the name on the wall. I hit up Ravenswall one night while in London for the London New Year's Day Parade @londonparade
Good to see Ink helping with setting up the hangboard 😂😂
Like how you tweaked the format a bit. These are great videos
So good! More videos like this please :)
Great editing and choice of music :)
does anyone know the name of the song that plays in the “Purple Swirl V8+” section?
Great video content top notch
Great video!
I want to see more sponsored bits where Ink is doing the sponsored part :D I don’t need a hang board, but I do want a hang board that I can try hangboarding on while wearing a cat on my shoulders…
If these walls were an additional 30 feet tall then Matt’s style would really start to show as superior. Louis’ style is a lot of additional force on finger joints that’s great for short boulders but exhausting on longer trad climbs
enjoyed this
That is RavensWall! When did you record this? I climb there often, but I have never seen you there, but I might have seen Mat!
And by the way, I tried that pink V7, just because it is my style, even though I climb V5, and I found it very hard.
Very nice, guys, very nice!!!
loved this video
At 6:53, would the static way be more efficient for your fingers, but harder on the core & leg muscles?
your core has nothing to do with this move. thats only fingers, arms, shoulders and feet. and holding it longer makes it harder, period. so it depends on how much worse is the first hold compared to the other one. i think the static way is unefficient, but its more controlled.
Amazing!!!!
看两位大佬爬真的是赏心悦目！
两位大佬都好谦虚
So cool - I'm really curious now how Louie's style changes on the ropes. Other super strong boulder'ers like Magnus seem to still keep thier style at height. I get super stiff and staic on even the easiest rope climbs
excellent video :)
7:34 - "I do like simple, stupid moves.."
Me: 🥲
The hangboard link in the description doesn't work for me
That’s strange! Works for me here in the U.K. - where are you based?
You could challenge each other setting boulders which fit one's style but not the other's
you guys should try overlaying the 2 videos for a cooler comparison
I find it a bit unfair to call one style less efficient unless we are comparing boulders at their limit and we have data comparing a few relevant strength tests. To my eyes the two styles are "different kind of hard" - the committed float style is only efficient once mastered and often requires a power element that may not be one's genetic predisposition , while the safer/twistier thing is more of a "strength" thing and presumably requires more core tension throughout the moves. That said, the relevancy of either style to their natural environment is spot on!
What pants are louie wearing?
Some really interesting info in this. Unfortunately I struggled to concentrate on it, distracted by the supreme handsomeness of the best climber…
Really interesting
I think if the move is truly risky, Louis will have a really difficult time doing the big dynamic moves because a miss means death or at least a serious injury, so he'd probably freeze and not dare to move further. The instinct to survive will overrule whatever you believe your body can do, at least that's what I think. The WHAT IFS become HUGE in those moments.
that was great
I like to go for the twist into the wall with like a drop knee or something, but way too often I twist and am just short of the hold and go "oh for fuck sakes!" before doing the max reach deadpoint and hoping for the best 😅Thats what being 5'2 in a country of giants is like lmao.
You know who Matt reminds me of in terms of his climbing style? Anna Hazelnutt
I think the differences of styles may also attribute to your different heights.
Just two lads climbing walls 🩵
Do this again, but then try each other’s beta after!
The teleportation gag is very cheap.
And im here for it.
Let's try boulder outside together. Without seeing another beta. Mat will use less attempt more than Louis.
Outdoor crimp holds is more risky than indoor holds for sure.
Mostly hold you have to adjust the body like Mat do before you grab it like sloper crimp, undercling mono. not so easy move.Indoor is more simple movement to figure out. More comfortable.
Bouncy Flouncy 😂
there is a video in your adds
When it comes to high 5's... Look at the other person's elbow when you do it 😂
Monkey vs robot.
Both amazing.
you should copy each others beta! I'd be interested to see that
why V7? It would have more sense with V11 boulders)
thoughjt it was magnus in the thumbnail
This one is for Luie❤
the v7 slab looked like v4 to me, am i crazy?
I feel like mat's climbing is better, since he has an outside specialization and he's climbing represent the risk of hold's breaking. vs loui just goes for it, if it break's a free solo he dies....
Nice nice nice
How does one climb V13 in 3 yeras? Seems almost impossible...
In the case of matt knowing him when he started alot of determination and putting every bit of free time he had into the sport, was very willing to learn diffrent styles
1. genetics.
2. genetics
3. genetics
4. hard work
@@rofldaful literally has nothing to do with how he climbed v13 in 3 years LMAO
Top genetics and climbing/training 4/5+ times a week pretty much from the get go. Simply not possible for 99.99% of people.
@@tacticalchunder1207 I think it's a little dismissive to attribute this to Matt's genetics and free time. He clearly put a lot of conscious effort into his climbing, rather than throwing himself at rocks in his free time.