The high pitched whistling noise comes from the trailing edges of the foils. The faster the boat is, the higher this sound gets. Watch at 7:30 for a really fast section.
I will do some tutorials on how to trimm a cat and how to figure out your own setting. But apart from maximum figures it is hard to tell what exact numbers would work for you and to be honest we never worked much with trimm sheets. We have about tree different basic settings for light, medium and strong winds. These basic settings are important for things that are difficult to change on the water like spreader rake or lift on the rudders. We trie to be early on the water so that we can adjust the trim according to the exact wind and sea state conditions. But if you need a specific number for a specific thing, feel free to ask in the comments.
@@born2sail Thanks a lot!! I can definitely see people benefiting from those settings. To me it's more about the daggerboards trim numbers that need to be adjusted quite often
I'm curious about the larger headsail. What do you call it? I had a 5.8NA and felt as though it was just about overpowered anytime the wind approached 18-20 knots. I would think the extra sail area would be a handful. Is the Nac 17 wider than 8 feet? I recall doing that dance on the wire that the crew is performing. My first cat was a SolCat 18 back in the 1970s and keeping the pitch attitude in the sweet spot meant all the difference in speed. You wanted the leeward bow about 3-4 inches above the waterline for max speed. There is nothing as cool as hauling ass like that while burning zero fuel. I became a windsurfing junkie as well.
With the kite up you sail a much lower angle and sail a better VMG. Without it you can sail faster but that's scary. The N17 is 2,6 meters so a bit too wide for European roads but just right for the US market. The crew dance is for the fine tuning. With the daggerboard rake you set the amount of lift you need and you can handle. More lift or more speed means that the crew has to stand more forward. A puff of wind or a high wave then you want to fly low, and since things are changing constantly the crew has to run a marathon sometimes. But the goal is as little movement as possible. I think windsurfing and cat sailing complement each other. When there's to much wind for the cat usually it's perfect for surfing.
@@timniclaswolfer1435 Bitte lass Ingmar von uns grüßen. Immerhin haben wir in Scharbeutz unter anderem durch seine Hilfestellung das Foilen gelernt. Ohne so einem freundlichen Club und dem zur verfügung gestellten Motorboot wäre das ganze viel schwieriger gewesen.
awesome to see you guys foiling. could you in future comment on trim settings, wind and leg? the other thing i was wondering is whether sanding your foils could make them more quiet. 400-600 grits at the first third of the low pressure areas, and to fight the whistling especially foiling kiters say the trailing edge should be sanded flat with 1mm width. here is a helpful video: .ua-cam.com/video/oidk2I2A0tQ/v-deo.html keep it up! i enjoy your videos. fg
Thank you very much! If you want to know anything about our trim settings in general feel free to ask. I will try to answer them in the comments or we will make a video to answer the question if it is a bigger topic. The purpose of these videos is to share our best sailing moments from the past 5 years. We filmed quite a lot and never found the time to publish it. So specific trim questions are a bit more complicated to answer for me, first because obviously it's a while ago and second it's not the latest edition of my knowledge and sailing skills 😉 A few words about foils: Thank you for the video. Unfortunately the N17 class rules are very strict when it comes to sanding foils and rudders. Most people thought Bora Gulari lost his fingers due to razor sharp daggerboards, which was not the case. But now we have these rules and they are here to stay. (But I never wrap the mainsheet around my hand again.) Most teams sand their hull appendages with 600 to 800 paper. The say that this makes foiling less edgy and more forgiving. In theory polished daggerboards are a little bit faster. Not sure if the teams from Japan are still using polished boards. When it comes to the trailing edges I would always recommend blunt edges. There is hardly any speed benefit for razor sharp ones and foil strikes are nasty anyway. No need to make them even worse. hard drives and will continue posting as long as you guys are interested in. Would love to read you again in the comments! Are you sailing the whisper or the A-Cat at the moment?
@@born2sail thanks for elaborating. interesting to hear about nacra17 foil rules. The A-Cat and moth sailors all sand their foils. As to trim: what if you did a video and discuss your trim-table that worked for you best? upwind vs. downwind, foiling vs. non-foiling, when to foil upwind and when not (i know most of the time you dont on A-Cat and nacra), mast rotation, traveller main/jib, cunningham, foil and rudder rake. At wind-speeds of approx 0-7, 7-12, 12-17, 17+ knots. as an example, it is interesting to realize that max twist is needed in about 12kts wind speeds, because then you have the biggest difference in apparent vs. tws angle when going downwind. Also this means that the mast rotation is actually not far out, but more about 30-35 degrees from center. Not sure this is true for boats with Jib though, but thats also why I am curious as I sail the whisper too which has a jib. Another one is, what do you do in strong wind of 25 kts, which is actually above regatta winds for Nacra and definitly for A-Cat which weights only 70kg. i.e. how to you bear away from upwind, without getting too much speed and starting to foil because all the weight is backwards on the boat when you prepare for a maneuver. and weight back means that despite foil rake zero, the boat can start to foil. So basically if you have scenes about boat handling and maneuvers in strong winds, and what you do differently in trim, weight, moves, steering, .... would be great! as you asked: I primarily sail the A-Cat, it gets going quickly, starts to foil at 13kts boat speed, and challenges me a lot, but is an adrenaline kicker. I sail the whisper purely as family-foiler. The whisper foils super easy and stable up and downwind at 8kts boat speeds, but lacks upwind performance needed for yardstick regattas. I am working on getting a sail with more camber, as I think it is too flat. I just posted a new whisper video from sailing with my daughter yesterday actually, showing also upwind foiling trying to lean upwind a bit into the wind like moths. keep it up! I look forward to watch your latest upwind video that you just posted. fg
@@born2sail i had one more question. why did you say you will never wrap the mainsheet around your hand again? as A-Cat sailor I dont think I have another chance, because i have in one hand the tiller extension and in the other the mainsheet and it is quicker to wrap than to hand over to tiller hand. I have seen Mischa Heemskerk to wrap too. But maybe as crew you have two hands available to manage the mainsheet. I understand that unwrapping during a tack/jybe takes too long (at least for me) but what else is the issue?
@@flyinggorilla Usually Daniel, the helmsman, is writing here 😉. Back to first person 😄 I think Boras incident was a freak accident. But the severing of his three fingers where caused by the mainsheet around his hand and not by the edge of the daggerboard or rudder. I trie not to wrap when foiling becomes sketchy. But the A-Cat is a different boat. It is much lighter and your flight hight is much much lower then with the N17. Your foils are much more advanced wich makes foiling more predictable. The Nacra foils very high and if you have a stall at the daggerboards the boat starts to nose dive like a dive bomber. The sudden stop with you flying forward makes it dangerous. Have a look at this footage and have in mind that we where going relatively slow: ua-cam.com/video/8Ayrs0RDOBI/v-deo.html
@@flyinggorilla We are planning to introduce a talking head and a tutorial format where we can discuss questions like when to foil upwind or how to safely bear away in strong winds. I just need to find some time to work on my in front of the camera skills. Looking back at my old vlogs it's definitely something I have to work on to make it less awkward. When it comes to trim we never worked with trim sheets. We have a priority list and we take our time to trim in the boat every time before racing. I will try to give an overview about "what line makes what" and how does it feel when something is off in the future. I can upload footage from survival conditions in PURE sailing #5 if you want. Bearing away in strong wind is difficult. First you have to decide if you still want to foil or if you just want to make it round the course. If you are still in racing mode you set the daggerboards to a level where you have good control about foiling. The boat should only foil when the boat is flat and both crew is standing behind the daggerboard. This also makes drops less brutal. With that level of lift you should be able to control the flight hight when bearing away by moving forward. And yes, that's very scary. You really have to convince yourself to leave your beloved footstrap. In survival conditions jumping and dropping off the foils is part of the game. It is crucial to stay at the back of the boat. Make yourself as tiny a possible and hope for the best. The thing is, when you don't fly forward during a nosedive the chances are high that you don't capsize. Have a look at the teams bearing away at the World Cup in Japan. worldsailing.photoshelter.com/gallery/Nacra-17/G0000HxhyW2mxGMI/3/C0000deBIdnC5ANo
The high pitched whistling noise comes from the trailing edges of the foils. The faster the boat is, the higher this sound gets. Watch at 7:30 for a really fast section.
One of the best Nacra 17 videos on UA-cam. I'd give you 2 thumbs up if I could!
Thank you very very much. I hope to get at least some foiling hours next season. I couldn't sell the boat after watching my own videos.
Schon wieder ein tolles Video. Der Nacra 17 gefällt mir richtig gut. Beeindruckend, wie gut Ihr das Boot bei der Geschwindigkeit sicher segelt.
Schönes Segeln das ihr beide da macht! Mir gefällt vor allem die ruhige Art auf eurem Schiff wie ihr miteinander umgeht. Top :)
voll cool und entspannend zum Zusehen
Ja, und am Ende ist der Tee auch fertig 🤣
@@born2sail 😅🤣
Could you maybe do a video about your settings/trimming?
That would be very helpful to benefit from your experiences!!^^
I will do some tutorials on how to trimm a cat and how to figure out your own setting. But apart from maximum figures it is hard to tell what exact numbers would work for you and to be honest we never worked much with trimm sheets. We have about tree different basic settings for light, medium and strong winds. These basic settings are important for things that are difficult to change on the water like spreader rake or lift on the rudders. We trie to be early on the water so that we can adjust the trim according to the exact wind and sea state conditions. But if you need a specific number for a specific thing, feel free to ask in the comments.
@@born2sail Thanks a lot!!
I can definitely see people benefiting from those settings.
To me it's more about the daggerboards trim numbers that need to be adjusted quite often
I'm curious about the larger headsail. What do you call it? I had a 5.8NA and felt as though it was just about overpowered anytime the wind approached 18-20 knots. I would think the extra sail area would be a handful. Is the Nac 17 wider than 8 feet? I recall doing that dance on the wire that the crew is performing. My first cat was a SolCat 18 back in the 1970s and keeping the pitch attitude in the sweet spot meant all the difference in speed. You wanted the leeward bow about 3-4 inches above the waterline for max speed. There is nothing as cool as hauling ass like that while burning zero fuel. I became a windsurfing junkie as well.
With the kite up you sail a much lower angle and sail a better VMG. Without it you can sail faster but that's scary. The N17 is 2,6 meters so a bit too wide for European roads but just right for the US market.
The crew dance is for the fine tuning. With the daggerboard rake you set the amount of lift you need and you can handle. More lift or more speed means that the crew has to stand more forward. A puff of wind or a high wave then you want to fly low, and since things are changing constantly the crew has to run a marathon sometimes. But the goal is as little movement as possible.
I think windsurfing and cat sailing complement each other. When there's to much wind for the cat usually it's perfect for surfing.
Cool
Danke! Ich hoffe ihr hattet eine tolle Zeit am Gardasee. Segelst du normalerweise in Scharbeutz?
born2sail ja genau
@@timniclaswolfer1435 Bitte lass Ingmar von uns grüßen. Immerhin haben wir in Scharbeutz unter anderem durch seine Hilfestellung das Foilen gelernt. Ohne so einem freundlichen Club und dem zur verfügung gestellten Motorboot wäre das ganze viel schwieriger gewesen.
awesome to see you guys foiling. could you in future comment on trim settings, wind and leg? the other thing i was wondering is whether sanding your foils could make them more quiet. 400-600 grits at the first third of the low pressure areas, and to fight the whistling especially foiling kiters say the trailing edge should be sanded flat with 1mm width. here is a helpful video: .ua-cam.com/video/oidk2I2A0tQ/v-deo.html keep it up! i enjoy your videos. fg
Thank you very much! If you want to know anything about our trim settings in general feel free to ask. I will try to answer them in the comments or we will make a video to answer the question if it is a bigger topic. The purpose of these videos is to share our best sailing moments from the past 5 years. We filmed quite a lot and never found the time to publish it. So specific trim questions are a bit more complicated to answer for me, first because obviously it's a while ago and second it's not the latest edition of my knowledge and sailing skills 😉
A few words about foils: Thank you for the video. Unfortunately the N17 class rules are very strict when it comes to sanding foils and rudders. Most people thought Bora Gulari lost his fingers due to razor sharp daggerboards, which was not the case. But now we have these rules and they are here to stay. (But I never wrap the mainsheet around my hand again.)
Most teams sand their hull appendages with 600 to 800 paper. The say that this makes foiling less edgy and more forgiving. In theory polished daggerboards are a little bit faster. Not sure if the teams from Japan are still using polished boards. When it comes to the trailing edges I would always recommend blunt edges. There is hardly any speed benefit for razor sharp ones and foil strikes are nasty anyway. No need to make them even worse.
hard drives and will continue posting as long as you guys are interested in. Would love to read you again in the comments! Are you sailing the whisper or the A-Cat at the moment?
@@born2sail thanks for elaborating. interesting to hear about nacra17 foil rules. The A-Cat and moth sailors all sand their foils.
As to trim: what if you did a video and discuss your trim-table that worked for you best? upwind vs. downwind, foiling vs. non-foiling, when to foil upwind and when not (i know most of the time you dont on A-Cat and nacra), mast rotation, traveller main/jib, cunningham, foil and rudder rake. At wind-speeds of approx 0-7, 7-12, 12-17, 17+ knots.
as an example, it is interesting to realize that max twist is needed in about 12kts wind speeds, because then you have the biggest difference in apparent vs. tws angle when going downwind. Also this means that the mast rotation is actually not far out, but more about 30-35 degrees from center. Not sure this is true for boats with Jib though, but thats also why I am curious as I sail the whisper too which has a jib.
Another one is, what do you do in strong wind of 25 kts, which is actually above regatta winds for Nacra and definitly for A-Cat which weights only 70kg. i.e. how to you bear away from upwind, without getting too much speed and starting to foil because all the weight is backwards on the boat when you prepare for a maneuver. and weight back means that despite foil rake zero, the boat can start to foil. So basically if you have scenes about boat handling and maneuvers in strong winds, and what you do differently in trim, weight, moves, steering, .... would be great!
as you asked: I primarily sail the A-Cat, it gets going quickly, starts to foil at 13kts boat speed, and challenges me a lot, but is an adrenaline kicker.
I sail the whisper purely as family-foiler. The whisper foils super easy and stable up and downwind at 8kts boat speeds, but lacks upwind performance needed for yardstick regattas. I am working on getting a sail with more camber, as I think it is too flat. I just posted a new whisper video from sailing with my daughter yesterday actually, showing also upwind foiling trying to lean upwind a bit into the wind like moths.
keep it up! I look forward to watch your latest upwind video that you just posted.
fg
@@born2sail i had one more question. why did you say you will never wrap the mainsheet around your hand again? as A-Cat sailor I dont think I have another chance, because i have in one hand the tiller extension and in the other the mainsheet and it is quicker to wrap than to hand over to tiller hand. I have seen Mischa Heemskerk to wrap too. But maybe as crew you have two hands available to manage the mainsheet. I understand that unwrapping during a tack/jybe takes too long (at least for me) but what else is the issue?
@@flyinggorilla Usually Daniel, the helmsman, is writing here 😉. Back to first person 😄
I think Boras incident was a freak accident. But the severing of his three fingers where caused by the mainsheet around his hand and not by the edge of the daggerboard or rudder. I trie not to wrap when foiling becomes sketchy. But the A-Cat is a different boat. It is much lighter and your flight hight is much much lower then with the N17. Your foils are much more advanced wich makes foiling more predictable. The Nacra foils very high and if you have a stall at the daggerboards the boat starts to nose dive like a dive bomber. The sudden stop with you flying forward makes it dangerous. Have a look at this footage and have in mind that we where going relatively slow: ua-cam.com/video/8Ayrs0RDOBI/v-deo.html
@@flyinggorilla We are planning to introduce a talking head and a tutorial format where we can discuss questions like when to foil upwind or how to safely bear away in strong winds. I just need to find some time to work on my in front of the camera skills. Looking back at my old vlogs it's definitely something I have to work on to make it less awkward.
When it comes to trim we never worked with trim sheets. We have a priority list and we take our time to trim in the boat every time before racing. I will try to give an overview about "what line makes what" and how does it feel when something is off in the future.
I can upload footage from survival conditions in PURE sailing #5 if you want. Bearing away in strong wind is difficult. First you have to decide if you still want to foil or if you just want to make it round the course. If you are still in racing mode you set the daggerboards to a level where you have good control about foiling. The boat should only foil when the boat is flat and both crew is standing behind the daggerboard. This also makes drops less brutal. With that level of lift you should be able to control the flight hight when bearing away by moving forward. And yes, that's very scary. You really have to convince yourself to leave your beloved footstrap.
In survival conditions jumping and dropping off the foils is part of the game. It is crucial to stay at the back of the boat. Make yourself as tiny a possible and hope for the best. The thing is, when you don't fly forward during a nosedive the chances are high that you don't capsize. Have a look at the teams bearing away at the World Cup in Japan. worldsailing.photoshelter.com/gallery/Nacra-17/G0000HxhyW2mxGMI/3/C0000deBIdnC5ANo