Sometimes I wonder if designers just don't understand the power of movement abilities. Giving your opponent a guaranteed 12" charge is wild as a drawback to your own battle trait.
If there was a generic rule where I'd always get a 12'' charge but I'd have a small chance of taking 2d3 damage, I'd use that rule every single game, haha. Now you can potentially do that every battle round, which is crazy.
Yes! A faction i play, and I have things to say. Note: I am not a good player. I often end last or close to last in tournaments, so take what I have to say with a grain of salt. On the one hand, I never had a lot of fun with the summoning mechanic, nor the depravity points. They felt like two win-more mechanics that only happened whenever you got ahead already. And I never had enough models to summon everything I wanted anyway, so losing both are fine :P HOWEVER I LOVED TO OFFER TEMPTATION DICE! It was one of the most fun mechanics in the entire game! Lots of agency for me, as well as the opponent who got to react to my offering. It was also great fun in team games where I got to pit people against each other >;> The new system takes away most of the fun, with me getting three buffs at the cost of giving away miracle dice. Easier maybe, but I don't get to interact with my opponent as much. If anything, it gives them more to think about with using their shiny new dice, than it does for me. Most of the time I'll know what to buff ahead of time, so it won't add much interesting thinking. The lore explanation they use is that it is up to the hedonite player to balance the temptation of granting euphoria with miracle dice. And sure, I can buy that. But the temptation dice gave me so many FUN moments with people. Even, I mist stress, with strangers and acquaintances! Honestly, there may well be more euphoric rules in the battle tome that make them good. But I will still miss the old mechanic. Thank you for another informative video! I hope fourth ed will be as interesting as you make it feel.
The earliest iteration of temptation dice was so cool! I almost instantly bought the army because of it. Then I did the math and was disappointed when it turned out it was better to take d3 damage usually. That last bit hasn't changed in this index, it seems. That being said, I'm still super hopeful something else will be strong enough to offset this weird battle trait. It's just too bad. It's either that or they're faq'ing this super early in 4th Ed.
Also i feel things are much more balanced across the board. All the big heroes are looking befitting, and the weaker stuff is generally the same across the board. For example, decent to good dmg, 2+ cast, and 5+ ward on all big heroes with less bracketing. I mean points and synergy at the end of thr day will make or break stuff but imo the synergy is lookiny good. You can always adjust points, but you can't fix a bad scroll.
True, true. I do wonder though with units being kind of weak and heroes being decently strong whether we're returning to herohammer more than before 🤔. Don't hate that idea, as long as it's not for too long a while.
@@strategoiyeah id say so. With the changes to battleline restrictions gone it seens like yoh could take all heroes for the most part. Will see if that's actually the case though.
Such a great comment about war scrolls that have a specific use and then you can just fail that use and then it does nothing. That kind of sums up how I feel disappointed about a number of things where they just do nothing a large amount of the time. To me the ultimate feels bad is my thing not doing What it is supposed to do. I actually won a game recently but my Lord of change literally did nothing the entire game, The opponents got incredibly lucky unbinding rolls So he got nothing off and then Manfred did his teleport and killed him in one go. And honestly I would have happily traded winning that game for my Lord of change doing something. These are casual games The worst feeling is when nothing happens.
I fully expect the army to be much cheaper than before. I do wonder whether they've increased the damage here or there to balance out the fact your opponent might save big numbers with temptation dice. 🤔
As slaanesh fan, my most favorite demon 😈 character is absolutely helbane! I love his/her perfection of duelist and the irony is that he/she is a monster/demon hunter. Regardless i love it being a legend.
Yes, Shalaxi is so badass! I love that their rules also feel much more proactive now, as they should be! Reminds me of how they play in Total War Warhammer!
So far it looks like you are going to make 3 killer units and the rest just to buff these 3 units and hope they don't get killed off having big bullseyes on them. The FANE looks like something that will be needed for sure.
More like the only way to use it at all is on one reinforced slickblade with shalaxi giving them double attack, then everything else archers and screens. 3 units is suicidal.
@@rotm4447 might depend on the battle round and will the temptation dice help your opponents in that round. Three might be overkill but doesn’t it also depend on what might be happening on the board at that time? Having Euphoric might swing a few fights
I just can't see a world where you're constantly choosing three units... Maybe if you're going first all the time and there's ways to get to fight before your opponent does. But even then it's always going to be risky. With counter charge being a thing, you'd constantly have to be mindful your opponent doesn't sling a screen in your path with a guaranteed 12'' charge... 🤔
What we see doesn't look good. I agree with jonas maybe glutos or some heroes can really take advantage or euphoric and make it alot better. Just s primer to the indexes. Even if they are bad, one big postitive is its reset power creep. Lets hope the stronger armies are the ones that eother have a book soon or far away and the meh armies get s book earlier. At the least im sure gw will get books out quicker then in the past. 40k is pumping them out so there is that for people who are sad with the changes.
There's been a time in AOS where book were released incredibly fast as well, after some sort of reset. I don't recall when that was though, so they might be able to pull that off here as well, as you say.
Hah, glad someone else is of the same mind on that. If my book is bad, I usually don't want a new one straight away because it'll be too much like the old one 😂
Yeah this is a total fail, sorry Slaanesh players. How can you ever give away two dice and let opponent have a guarantee 12" charge? For on average less than 2mortals. Even if it was always d3 mortals per dice, it would be a great ability to have and you would be using it a lot! Take 2d3 to charge 12 and never fail? Yes please. And that 6 on redeploy (should work...), gonna mess you up so many times...I think my biggest objection is that if the dice does't do guaranteed damage, it doesn't feel like it is dangerous, what is even the temptation here. The 3rd edition ability was a bit too time consuming but at least flavourful.
the fact that the D3 damage isn't even guarenteed is just absurd. for all you know you could give him free charges every turn and you roll poorly for the damage and they take no damage at all so all you got was a pretty low buff that litterly every other army can get for free without dissadvantage.
I was inclined to agree when we didn't have the indexes yet. But since they're out, I've heard it's actually not as bad, so hopefully it still works out for the Slaanesh crowd. And it it doesn't... Well, agony is bliss, right? 🫣🥲
@@strategoi i realy hope so too cause i can potentially buy a big slaanesh army and i really love the estatics of this army. But i don't want to be frustrated all the time when playing. That would be a huge waste of money then 😅
This preview was really something, wasn't it? I mean, I think I understand what GW is going for, but, still, feels rough. Empower up to three of your units and give a poisoned gift to your opponent. Why poisoned? We'll, the smart AoS player will get a 12" charge and be happy, but the big brain Slaanesh player will smile at that thought. If you are not careful, Shalaxi is going to redeploy closer to you and charge you before you can use it. If you charge me, well, now my units are better and you risk striking last and being buried under a bucket of dice. It's a battle trait that goads your opponents into charging you (if they dare). You know they are going to save at least two dice for a charge (which you want), so only one dice for saves/wards.
The unit had to be within 9 of shalexi but has a 12" charge guaranteed. This is not going to work buddy. Nobody is stupid enough to walk within 9 of shelaxi to use a 12" auto charge on something else.
@@timwilhelmi9358 you can redeploy them or simply run them so they are already within range, forcing your opponent' heroes to move away or be either countercharge or rampaged. Mind you, I'm not saying this is good, I'm saying this seems to be the intention of GW, to play with temptation. Or at least the only thing I can think of based of the rules they have previewed. Maybe there is more that actually make the battle trait useful.
The Ogor battle traits were bad. The Slaanesh ones are catastrophically bad. No idea how this iteration made it to print. Battle traits should apply to the whole army. This applies to a single unit each battle round! Because you should never give more than one destiny six to your opponent, to prevent the possibility of automatic 12" charges. I can only hope that they remove the possibility of using the destiny sixes on charge rolls with an errata. And make the points costs low enough to make up for the incredibly weak battle traits. Regarding Fiends: It seems they give every unit that is completely or at least mostly made up of animalistic / beastly creatures the Beast keyword and ability. And Fiends got that for conistency sake. Doesn't look like a big deal on a 3 model unit. They are meant for support and some opportunistic damage. I actually like the new Fiend warscroll. With the caveat that they are costed appropriately. If they are cheap enough, they make a nice little support piece.
@@strategoi Theyre worse than you remembered in the video too, they hit on 4+ now where it was 3+ in the last battletome. Theyre giant living weapons literally spawned from the Chaos-induced nightmares of mortals, then given shape by Slaanesh. With a worse weapon profile than an ogor glutton.
Sometimes I wonder if designers just don't understand the power of movement abilities. Giving your opponent a guaranteed 12" charge is wild as a drawback to your own battle trait.
If there was a generic rule where I'd always get a 12'' charge but I'd have a small chance of taking 2d3 damage, I'd use that rule every single game, haha. Now you can potentially do that every battle round, which is crazy.
Yes! A faction i play, and I have things to say.
Note: I am not a good player. I often end last or close to last in tournaments, so take what I have to say with a grain of salt.
On the one hand, I never had a lot of fun with the summoning mechanic, nor the depravity points. They felt like two win-more mechanics that only happened whenever you got ahead already. And I never had enough models to summon everything I wanted anyway, so losing both are fine :P
HOWEVER I LOVED TO OFFER TEMPTATION DICE! It was one of the most fun mechanics in the entire game! Lots of agency for me, as well as the opponent who got to react to my offering.
It was also great fun in team games where I got to pit people against each other >;>
The new system takes away most of the fun, with me getting three buffs at the cost of giving away miracle dice. Easier maybe, but I don't get to interact with my opponent as much. If anything, it gives them more to think about with using their shiny new dice, than it does for me. Most of the time I'll know what to buff ahead of time, so it won't add much interesting thinking.
The lore explanation they use is that it is up to the hedonite player to balance the temptation of granting euphoria with miracle dice. And sure, I can buy that. But the temptation dice gave me so many FUN moments with people. Even, I mist stress, with strangers and acquaintances!
Honestly, there may well be more euphoric rules in the battle tome that make them good. But I will still miss the old mechanic.
Thank you for another informative video! I hope fourth ed will be as interesting as you make it feel.
The earliest iteration of temptation dice was so cool! I almost instantly bought the army because of it. Then I did the math and was disappointed when it turned out it was better to take d3 damage usually. That last bit hasn't changed in this index, it seems.
That being said, I'm still super hopeful something else will be strong enough to offset this weird battle trait. It's just too bad. It's either that or they're faq'ing this super early in 4th Ed.
Also i feel things are much more balanced across the board. All the big heroes are looking befitting, and the weaker stuff is generally the same across the board. For example, decent to good dmg, 2+ cast, and 5+ ward on all big heroes with less bracketing.
I mean points and synergy at the end of thr day will make or break stuff but imo the synergy is lookiny good. You can always adjust points, but you can't fix a bad scroll.
True, true. I do wonder though with units being kind of weak and heroes being decently strong whether we're returning to herohammer more than before 🤔. Don't hate that idea, as long as it's not for too long a while.
@@strategoiyeah id say so. With the changes to battleline restrictions gone it seens like yoh could take all heroes for the most part. Will see if that's actually the case though.
Waiting for sylvaneth and seraphon for sure!
Same here!
Yessss!
Such a great comment about war scrolls that have a specific use and then you can just fail that use and then it does nothing. That kind of sums up how I feel disappointed about a number of things where they just do nothing a large amount of the time.
To me the ultimate feels bad is my thing not doing What it is supposed to do. I actually won a game recently but my Lord of change literally did nothing the entire game, The opponents got incredibly lucky unbinding rolls So he got nothing off and then Manfred did his teleport and killed him in one go. And honestly I would have happily traded winning that game for my Lord of change doing something. These are casual games The worst feeling is when nothing happens.
Definitely agree with you there! It's a dice game, so those things happen, but it'd be nice if certain scrolls weren't completely reliant on a 4+ 🥲
They are going to price the units like they have exploding hits and run & charge/shoot I bet
I fully expect the army to be much cheaper than before. I do wonder whether they've increased the damage here or there to balance out the fact your opponent might save big numbers with temptation dice. 🤔
As slaanesh fan, my most favorite demon 😈 character is absolutely helbane! I love his/her perfection of duelist and the irony is that he/she is a monster/demon hunter. Regardless i love it being a legend.
Yes, Shalaxi is so badass! I love that their rules also feel much more proactive now, as they should be! Reminds me of how they play in Total War Warhammer!
So far it looks like you are going to make 3 killer units and the rest just to buff these 3 units and hope they don't get killed off having big bullseyes on them. The FANE looks like something that will be needed for sure.
More like the only way to use it at all is on one reinforced slickblade with shalaxi giving them double attack, then everything else archers and screens. 3 units is suicidal.
@@rotm4447 might depend on the battle round and will the temptation dice help your opponents in that round. Three might be overkill but doesn’t it also depend on what might be happening on the board at that time? Having Euphoric might swing a few fights
I just can't see a world where you're constantly choosing three units... Maybe if you're going first all the time and there's ways to get to fight before your opponent does. But even then it's always going to be risky. With counter charge being a thing, you'd constantly have to be mindful your opponent doesn't sling a screen in your path with a guaranteed 12'' charge... 🤔
What we see doesn't look good. I agree with jonas maybe glutos or some heroes can really take advantage or euphoric and make it alot better.
Just s primer to the indexes. Even if they are bad, one big postitive is its reset power creep. Lets hope the stronger armies are the ones that eother have a book soon or far away and the meh armies get s book earlier. At the least im sure gw will get books out quicker then in the past. 40k is pumping them out so there is that for people who are sad with the changes.
If a slaanesh book comes out soon it will have been written early enough that whoever wrote this crap still thinks they did a good job with it.
There's been a time in AOS where book were released incredibly fast as well, after some sort of reset. I don't recall when that was though, so they might be able to pull that off here as well, as you say.
Hah, glad someone else is of the same mind on that. If my book is bad, I usually don't want a new one straight away because it'll be too much like the old one 😂
@strategoi lol yeah, that's true! Well lets see how the hedonites do with what they got!
well i chose the wrong chaos god to follow for 4th edition got most of the army too pray for me guys 😭😭😭
I still strongly believe there's more than what we're seeing here. There must be.
Yeah this is a total fail, sorry Slaanesh players. How can you ever give away two dice and let opponent have a guarantee 12" charge? For on average less than 2mortals. Even if it was always d3 mortals per dice, it would be a great ability to have and you would be using it a lot! Take 2d3 to charge 12 and never fail? Yes please. And that 6 on redeploy (should work...), gonna mess you up so many times...I think my biggest objection is that if the dice does't do guaranteed damage, it doesn't feel like it is dangerous, what is even the temptation here. The 3rd edition ability was a bit too time consuming but at least flavourful.
Guaranteed damage would be totally fine, yes. That'd make me think about it before using it at least
the fact that the D3 damage isn't even guarenteed is just absurd. for all you know you could give him free charges every turn and you roll poorly for the damage and they take no damage at all so all you got was a pretty low buff that litterly every other army can get for free without dissadvantage.
I was inclined to agree when we didn't have the indexes yet. But since they're out, I've heard it's actually not as bad, so hopefully it still works out for the Slaanesh crowd. And it it doesn't... Well, agony is bliss, right? 🫣🥲
@@strategoi i realy hope so too cause i can potentially buy a big slaanesh army and i really love the estatics of this army. But i don't want to be frustrated all the time when playing. That would be a huge waste of money then 😅
This preview was really something, wasn't it? I mean, I think I understand what GW is going for, but, still, feels rough.
Empower up to three of your units and give a poisoned gift to your opponent. Why poisoned? We'll, the smart AoS player will get a 12" charge and be happy, but the big brain Slaanesh player will smile at that thought. If you are not careful, Shalaxi is going to redeploy closer to you and charge you before you can use it. If you charge me, well, now my units are better and you risk striking last and being buried under a bucket of dice.
It's a battle trait that goads your opponents into charging you (if they dare). You know they are going to save at least two dice for a charge (which you want), so only one dice for saves/wards.
The unit had to be within 9 of shalexi but has a 12" charge guaranteed. This is not going to work buddy. Nobody is stupid enough to walk within 9 of shelaxi to use a 12" auto charge on something else.
@@timwilhelmi9358 you can redeploy them or simply run them so they are already within range, forcing your opponent' heroes to move away or be either countercharge or rampaged.
Mind you, I'm not saying this is good, I'm saying this seems to be the intention of GW, to play with temptation. Or at least the only thing I can think of based of the rules they have previewed. Maybe there is more that actually make the battle trait useful.
This is reliant on you always taking Shalaxi, which feels bad if you either don't own, or don't want to cooky cutter her into every list
The Ogor battle traits were bad. The Slaanesh ones are catastrophically bad. No idea how this iteration made it to print. Battle traits should apply to the whole army. This applies to a single unit each battle round! Because you should never give more than one destiny six to your opponent, to prevent the possibility of automatic 12" charges.
I can only hope that they remove the possibility of using the destiny sixes on charge rolls with an errata. And make the points costs low enough to make up for the incredibly weak battle traits.
Regarding Fiends: It seems they give every unit that is completely or at least mostly made up of animalistic / beastly creatures the Beast keyword and ability. And Fiends got that for conistency sake. Doesn't look like a big deal on a 3 model unit. They are meant for support and some opportunistic damage. I actually like the new Fiend warscroll. With the caveat that they are costed appropriately. If they are cheap enough, they make a nice little support piece.
I can just not see myself bringing fiends unless I have points left over
@@strategoi Theyre worse than you remembered in the video too, they hit on 4+ now where it was 3+ in the last battletome. Theyre giant living weapons literally spawned from the Chaos-induced nightmares of mortals, then given shape by Slaanesh. With a worse weapon profile than an ogor glutton.
@@salemsuwareh1643 Yep, very weird! That being said, I played against Slaanesh last week and it seemed to play absolutely fine. No fiends though... xD