A very good video. After watching this I went ahead and started trouble-shooting a Yaesu FT-5100 VHF/UHF mobile rig I bought on eBay. Its display was flashing most of the time and I always suspected the reference oscillator. I located the reference oscillator transistor and measured 0.003 V on the collector, which is supplied through a 100 ohm resistor with 5.0 V. I located the 8 V and 5 V regulator ICs; beefy 7808, 7805 units on the side of the case. They were both working. And I measured 4.98 V in other parts of the radio. Going back to the reference oscillator, I measured around 4.5 V on the high side of the 100 ohm collector resistor. I assumed the 10 uF electrolytic bypass cap. was bad so I yanked it out. That was difficult since the cap is surface mount and surrounded by vertical modules. However I got one pad loose by heating the back side of the board and gave it a good yank. It came free with a small piece of PCB material on the ground plane side. Good enough for gov't work as my former coworkers at NASA used to say. I think I can manage soldering a replacement on the back side of the board. No more blinking display when I powered up the radio, so I programmed it for a local repeater and got good signal reports on VHF . The receive audio is a bit rough, which I think is from the reference oscillator's instability. I am hoping that when I solder a replacement capacitor that problem will go away
Very few are the times that I wish I'd have chosen a different carrier ,but after watching your videos ,I wish I'd learned your profession. You are a master, Thank you.
Logische Fehlersuche mit der erforderlichen Vorsicht ausgeführt. Das ist der Weg um auch solche komplexen Schaltungen zu reparieren. Wie immer erste Liga Peter. 73, DG3JA, Jörg
It seems to me that checking the 10 Mhz reference signal would be the first step with an unlock condition and this could be done without removing the board, at the input to the fist 2x stage. I don't mean to criticize your method of getting to the root of the problem. that's just how I would have done it. Your method is more instructional. I truly enjoy your videos, I am a retired electronics technician and a ham.
Well, it is always the question of perspective. First hand this is a learning channel, secondly it is not so easy from the PCB component side to probe the OCXO and finally how many defective OCXO's have you already found? But to make it clear, we don't see your thoughts as critic, that's fine. Everybody has his own approach. 73, and thanks for stepping by
@@TRXLab They say there are many ways to skin a cat, just as there are many ways to approach fault-finding. I appreciate the way you went about this repair because it helps me to confirm in my mind what I thought I knew about this part of the circuit as well as the fact that the radio will actually start operating once it sees a valid 40 MHz signal at the output of the doubler circuits. 73 de ZL1SAR.
Hello Peter - That was one very interesting process of elimination and fault locating. Its a pleasure to watch yo work and meticulously explain each stage of the process. I wonder Peter if you opened up the XO to see which component failed. Many years ago I purchased the Yaesu Twins, the FL101 (TX) and the FR101 (RX). After a week or so the RX lost its LSB function and all I could hear was a very distorted audio. On inspection the LSB filter had snuffed it (died). An associate and myself dismantled the filter and found a dry joint. Re flowed all the internal connections and bingo, back to normal. Great video. 73 de EI6DP
As always Peter excellent analytical trouble shooting with detailed explanations and verifications shared with the viewers. That was a very impressive video. Thanks for sharing.
Es gibt nurnoch wenige Elektroniker wie Dich in Delta Lima die sich an diese Geräte ran trauen und auch wirklich wieder funktionell bekommen,.Wenn ich nur 1% von Deinem Fachwissen und praktischer Erfahrung hätte könnte ich mich "von" schreiben. Sehr schönes Video, Peter hab ich gleich auf Facebook geteilt. 💯👌 73 & schönen Samstagabend de Onkel Günter 🙋♂
Hi Peter. You lost me when you injected the 40khz into the radio with the R&S generator, in which I'm not familiar. As right off I heard the 1khz tone through the radio. I had to go back and take a closer look at the test setup on the meter. I then recognized the 1khz setting on the opposite side of the setup screen. Thank you as always and have a fantastic week. I'll eagerly be looking forward to your next video. '73 Roger
Hi, not sure if you got the information right. The radio was connected to the Service Generator on 14.001 MHZ SSB where the radio was dialed to. With the second Generator we injected not 40KHZ but 40 MHZ and that is the reference oscillator frequency to operate the local unit to generate with the help of the PLL and DDS's the needed different LO mixer frequencies.
Das war ein wenig schlampig-schnell von mir formuliert, ich war auf dem Sprung ;-) = Blinkt wie eine Discokugel.. Mir hat der initiale Einstieg gut gefallen, der erste Angriff über die These "PLL out of lock", das war die richtige Idee! Man tippt ja schnell auf alles Mögliche, spontan auf "irgendetwas mit der MCU", was ja oft gedanklich Richtung "Totalschaden, lohnt nicht" führt.@@TRXLab
Hi Peter here is CX3CP , the same thing happened to me a while ago, but on my HP8921A service monitor, the 10MHZ TCXO also stopped working. I bought a new one and while it was coming, I wanted to open the original just to be curious and see what inside of it, So it has continuous welding on the bottom, terminal side. I used a hot air gun but I couldn't open it. After being exposed to a lot of heat, I put it to the test and it came back to life. So I had it on test for several days and I chose to put it again to the service monitor. finally the new TCXO arrived but I left it as a replacement part, just in case. I'm telling you this so you can do the test to see if that TCXO revives. 73´s
Na ja, lieber Tortsen, wenn Du vor dem Gerät sitzt, sieht die Welt ganz anders aus, zudem habe ich jeden Messpunkt in der logischen Reihenfolge angetastet, wie Yaesu diese auf der Oberseite des PCB's angeboten hat. Also was hättest Du besser gemacht? Zuerst den OCXO zu messen? Der war nicht ganz einfach von der Oberseite messbar und zudem, wie viele defekte OCXO's hast Du schon gefunden? Aber jeder muss so vorgehen, wie es für ihn selber richtig ist und wenn ich direkt auf das defekte Bauteil gehe, kann niemand etwas lernen...
BITTE NICHT ALS KRITIK VERSTEHEN Du hast natürlich recht, ein defekter OCXO ist sehr selten, aber nach den nicht vorhandenen 40mhz hätte ich sofort die 10Mhz geprüft. Ich bin mir auch sehr sicher, dass du den OCXO von Anfang an in Verdacht hattest, wäre aber ein kurzes Video geworden. 😉 Also, bitte nicht falsch verstehen, du machst einen super Job und ich wäre froh nur 10% deines Wissens zu haben. 73 @@TRXLab
A question for Peter or anyone else. As these videos have inspired me to do more modification and repair of my equipment I'm wondering, is a service monitor necessary on a fixed RF bench? If one has a separate signal generator, spectrum analyzer, DVM, etc, is there s special function or convenience that a service monitor provides?
If you have separate instruments that's fine, there is no need to have a combined service monitor. The point is, if you have all in one, that will save bench space...
Nice fault finding video as always, Peter! Believe a defective OCXO will be a rare fault, but surely can happen. Have you tried an "autopsy" of it? Could be another video?
Hi, which can be the reason of this failure Peter? What do you think about this? May be temperature? I have the same transceiver and I have noticed that from the bottom side and with that hardware there is a consistent hot area!!!! After that I know that this radio suffer only the OLED life problem and same encoder issue, the web owner are less or more satisfied about thishardware. Anyway compliment about your very professional troubleshooting ......
Hi, it is completely right that you recognize the hot spot, as it is an oven controlled reference oscillator. Why the OCXO failed is hard to say, but this fault is very seldom.
@@TRXLab Thank you so much for the answer, for me this remain again a good transceiver also in comparision with new SDR model and I hope also for the reliability. Compliment also and again for your competence your analysys are a big help to learn.
Hi Peter, you explain things so well, I start to think perhaps I could have fixed this radio. I know in the real world I probably couldn't have, but I always learn from you. de Mike G4VQH
I have a FTDX-10 and it presents the same problem of flashing lTX ights at a similar rate and inhibited TX and RX. Searching the net uncovers numerous Yaesu models with similar faults. Peters brilliant resolution of the fault on this unit got me thinking. The circuit with the two doublers to produce the reference is probably used by the Yaesu designers in many of the TX/RX models that the market. This is why the same fault presents in lots of models doubling circuits can be touchy. Peter found the canned oscillator was at fault this time, but a similar fault appears in other models intermittently and after a long operation in the receive mode. Could it be that the doubler goes out of spec over time and this leads to the 'out of lock' problem. This is obviously a design problem anmd should be highlighted to the Chief Designer asap. I hope that this reply will start the ball rolling by collecting other users who have suffered this problem. Graham (M0HGZ)
A very good video. After watching this I went ahead and started trouble-shooting a Yaesu FT-5100 VHF/UHF mobile rig I bought on eBay. Its display was flashing most of the time and I always suspected the reference oscillator. I located the reference oscillator transistor and measured 0.003 V on the collector, which is supplied through a 100 ohm resistor with 5.0 V. I located the 8 V and 5 V regulator ICs; beefy 7808, 7805 units on the side of the case. They were both working. And I measured 4.98 V in other parts of the radio. Going back to the reference oscillator, I measured around 4.5 V on the high side of the 100 ohm collector resistor. I assumed the 10 uF electrolytic bypass cap. was bad so I yanked it out. That was difficult since the cap is surface mount and surrounded by vertical modules. However I got one pad loose by heating the back side of the board and gave it a good yank. It came free with a small piece of PCB material on the ground plane side. Good enough for gov't work as my former coworkers at NASA used to say. I think I can manage soldering a replacement on the back side of the board. No more blinking display when I powered up the radio, so I programmed it for a local repeater and got good signal reports on VHF . The receive audio is a bit rough, which I think is from the reference oscillator's instability. I am hoping that when I solder a replacement capacitor that problem will go away
Very few are the times that I wish I'd have chosen a different carrier ,but after watching your videos ,I wish I'd learned your profession. You are a master, Thank you.
Thanks for your kind words!
Logische Fehlersuche mit der erforderlichen Vorsicht ausgeführt.
Das ist der Weg um auch solche komplexen Schaltungen zu reparieren.
Wie immer erste Liga Peter. 73, DG3JA, Jörg
Danke lieber Jörg! Immer wieder schön, dich hier zu haben!
73
Very enjoyable and instructive video Peter, thank you, best regards, Adam, G2AP.
Awesome video love the way you narrow it down block by block keep up the great work 73 from Minnesota Kd9dle
Thank you!
Great Job Peter! :^)
Hey Paul, good to see you! Hope you are doing well. Take care and stay healthy!
It seems to me that checking the 10 Mhz reference signal would be the first step with an unlock condition and this could be done without removing the board, at the input to the fist 2x stage. I don't mean to criticize your method of getting to the root of the problem. that's just how I would have done it. Your method is more instructional. I truly enjoy your videos, I am a retired electronics technician and a ham.
Well, it is always the question of perspective. First hand this is a learning channel, secondly it is not so easy from the PCB component side to probe the OCXO and finally how many defective OCXO's have you already found? But to make it clear, we don't see your thoughts as critic, that's fine. Everybody has his own approach. 73, and thanks for stepping by
@@TRXLab They say there are many ways to skin a cat, just as there are many ways to approach fault-finding. I appreciate the way you went about this repair because it helps me to confirm in my mind what I thought I knew about this part of the circuit as well as the fact that the radio will actually start operating once it sees a valid 40 MHz signal at the output of the doubler circuits. 73 de ZL1SAR.
As always, brilliant methodical fault finding.
Thank you
Hello Peter - That was one very interesting process of elimination and fault locating. Its a pleasure to watch yo work and meticulously explain each stage of the process. I wonder Peter if you opened up the XO to see which component failed. Many years ago I purchased the Yaesu Twins, the FL101 (TX) and the FR101 (RX). After a week or so the RX lost its LSB function and all I could hear was a very distorted audio. On inspection the LSB filter had snuffed it (died). An associate and myself dismantled the filter and found a dry joint. Re flowed all the internal connections and bingo, back to normal.
Great video.
73 de EI6DP
Thanks! No, short of time to take the XO apart...
As always Peter excellent analytical trouble shooting with detailed explanations and verifications shared with the viewers. That was a very impressive video. Thanks for sharing.
Es gibt nurnoch wenige Elektroniker wie Dich in Delta Lima die sich an diese Geräte ran trauen und auch wirklich wieder funktionell bekommen,.Wenn ich nur 1% von Deinem Fachwissen und praktischer Erfahrung hätte könnte ich mich "von" schreiben. Sehr schönes Video, Peter hab ich gleich auf Facebook geteilt. 💯👌
73 & schönen Samstagabend de Onkel Günter 🙋♂
Ja!
Das ist definitiv zu viel der Ehre, lieber Günter. Freue mich aber, dass dir meine Videos gefallen. 73
Another great video Peter, thanks for sharing. 73s Pasquale IW0HEX
Thank you my friend
Enjoyed the thrill of the hunt...
Nice repair. Thanks for sharing and have a peaceful weekend.
Thank you
Thank you Peter for another excellent troubleshooting video, 73 SV1FJK
Thank you
Hi Peter, I would loved to see an video where you demonstrate the different test eqitment from your lab.
You are a genius sir!!!
Hi Peter. You lost me when you injected the 40khz into the radio with the R&S generator, in which I'm not familiar. As right off I heard the 1khz tone through the radio. I had to go back and take a closer look at the test setup on the meter. I then recognized the 1khz setting on the opposite side of the setup screen. Thank you as always and have a fantastic week. I'll eagerly be looking forward to your next video. '73 Roger
Hi, not sure if you got the information right. The radio was connected to the Service Generator on 14.001 MHZ SSB where the radio was dialed to. With the second Generator we injected not 40KHZ but 40 MHZ and that is the reference oscillator frequency to operate the local unit to generate with the help of the PLL and DDS's the needed different LO mixer frequencies.
very nice Peter!
Hi Peter,
Nice repair. I like your method to determine the defective part. Stay safe. 73 WJ3U
Thanks for feed back!
I love your videos Peter. Your a great teacher and technician. Have a great weekend. 73
Thank you!
Great work!
Thank you
Yet another excellent video Peter.
Thank you
I have no words, just AMAZING! Thanks a lot for your videos! 🔝
Thank you!
Great video. As always. Thank you.
Excellent troubleshooting!
Thank you
Thank you
Excellent procedure and result. 👍
Thank you
Yes, Peter is a genius... Best 73s de DL6RDE / AA1KD, Charlie 🍀👍
Thank you, Charlie! As you know, there are only a very few Genii on earth, and I'm not in that league. 73 stay safe good friend
Yeah, discostyle! Good job Peter! 73 de Olaf!
Danke Olaf, aber was meint das Wort? 73
Das war ein wenig schlampig-schnell von mir formuliert, ich war auf dem Sprung ;-) = Blinkt wie eine Discokugel.. Mir hat der initiale Einstieg gut gefallen, der erste Angriff über die These "PLL out of lock", das war die richtige Idee! Man tippt ja schnell auf alles Mögliche, spontan auf "irgendetwas mit der MCU", was ja oft gedanklich Richtung "Totalschaden, lohnt nicht" führt.@@TRXLab
@@OleF112 nee nicht schlampig formuliert, alles gut, Olaf. Wer lesen kann, ist klar im Vorteil. Discostyle oh Mann, ja klar lol
Good Job Peter
Thank you Mike! Take care what ever you do!
Hi Peter here is CX3CP , the same thing happened to me a while ago, but on my HP8921A service monitor, the 10MHZ TCXO also stopped working. I bought a new one and while it was coming, I wanted to open the original just to be curious and see what inside of it, So it has continuous welding on the bottom, terminal side. I used a hot air gun but I couldn't open it. After being exposed to a lot of heat, I put it to the test and it came back to life. So I had it on test for several days and I chose to put it again to the service monitor. finally the new TCXO arrived but I left it as a replacement part, just in case. I'm telling you this so you can do the test to see if that TCXO revives. 73´s
Hi Alberto, thanks for your report. If we find time, we will consider an autopsy of the OCXO. Maybe we'll find what happened..
Geflickt! Gratuliere.
Very nice !
Thanks
thank you
Das Pferd von hinten aufgezäumt, aber trotzdem technisch sehr aufschlussreich.
Na ja, lieber Tortsen, wenn Du vor dem Gerät sitzt, sieht die Welt ganz anders aus, zudem habe ich jeden Messpunkt in der logischen Reihenfolge angetastet, wie Yaesu diese auf der Oberseite des PCB's angeboten hat. Also was hättest Du besser gemacht? Zuerst den OCXO zu messen? Der war nicht ganz einfach von der Oberseite messbar und zudem, wie viele defekte OCXO's hast Du schon gefunden? Aber jeder muss so vorgehen, wie es für ihn selber richtig ist und wenn ich direkt auf das defekte Bauteil gehe, kann niemand etwas lernen...
BITTE NICHT ALS KRITIK VERSTEHEN
Du hast natürlich recht, ein defekter OCXO ist sehr selten, aber nach den nicht vorhandenen 40mhz hätte ich sofort die 10Mhz geprüft. Ich bin mir auch sehr sicher, dass du den OCXO von Anfang an in Verdacht hattest, wäre aber ein kurzes Video geworden. 😉
Also, bitte nicht falsch verstehen, du machst einen super Job und ich wäre froh nur 10% deines Wissens zu haben.
73
@@TRXLab
Alles gut, ich verstehe es nicht als Kritik und über unterschiedliche Herangehensweisen kann man immer sprechen. 73
Love to own a radio like that!
Still a very good one.
A question for Peter or anyone else. As these videos have inspired me to do more modification and repair of my equipment I'm wondering, is a service monitor necessary on a fixed RF bench? If one has a separate signal generator, spectrum analyzer, DVM, etc, is there s special function or convenience that a service monitor provides?
If you have separate instruments that's fine, there is no need to have a combined service monitor. The point is, if you have all in one, that will save bench space...
Nice fault finding video as always, Peter! Believe a defective OCXO will be a rare fault, but surely can happen. Have you tried an "autopsy" of it? Could be another video?
We are considering it, depends on time..
👏👏👏👏👏 & 👍 🙂
I can never get used to that red light next to TX on Yaesu when the rig is on receive.
yeah, a little bit weird
Hello Peter very nice video. Please how is your probe made that you used to inject oscillating signal. Love your videos. 73 Mike N9GSX
Only a 47nF/50V cap in the signal line, that's all.
Hi, which can be the reason of this failure Peter? What do you think about this? May be temperature? I have the same transceiver and I have noticed that from the bottom side and with that hardware there is a consistent hot area!!!! After that I know that this radio suffer only the OLED life problem and same encoder issue, the web owner are less or more satisfied about thishardware. Anyway compliment about your very professional troubleshooting ......
Hi, it is completely right that you recognize the hot spot, as it is an oven controlled reference oscillator. Why the OCXO failed is hard to say, but this fault is very seldom.
@@TRXLab Thank you so much for the answer, for me this remain again a good transceiver also in comparision with new SDR model and I hope also for the reliability. Compliment also and again for your competence your analysys are a big help to learn.
Hi peter, any chance of an autopsy of the txco?
We will consider it.
watched one of your video's about the tyt th-9800 got the same problem was you able to fix it
Hm, the TYT Th-9800 had a toasted processor, which we were not able to get from TYT thus radio got never fixed.
I could have done that job with a Radio Shack multimeter and some Chinese side cutters in about 5 minutes !! lol
lol you are my hero, can we hire you :-)
@@TRXLab Lol :)
tested processer dose not do the same as what you did got new transistors to replace the 7550-a if it dosent work chuck it in the bin
where do you buy your parts?
Most of the time directly from the Radio company.
how common is this problem ?
very few
These videos are great. Please keep doing what you are doing. 73 de KJ4ALC
Thank you
Hi Peter, you explain things so well, I start to think perhaps I could have fixed this radio. I know in the real world I probably couldn't have, but I always learn from you. de Mike G4VQH
Thank you
I have a FTDX-10 and it presents the same problem of flashing lTX ights at a similar rate and inhibited TX and RX. Searching the net uncovers numerous Yaesu models with similar faults. Peters brilliant resolution of the fault on this unit got me thinking. The circuit with the two doublers to produce the reference is probably used by the Yaesu designers in many of the TX/RX models that the market. This is why the same fault presents in lots of models doubling circuits can be touchy. Peter found the canned oscillator was at fault this time, but a similar fault appears in other models intermittently and after a long operation in the receive mode. Could it be that the doubler goes out of spec over time and this leads to the 'out of lock' problem. This is obviously a design problem anmd should be highlighted to the Chief Designer asap. I hope that this reply will start the ball rolling by collecting other users who have suffered this problem.
Graham (M0HGZ)