In Defense of Gwen Stacy - Fear (Spider-Man: Across The Spider-Verse)
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- Опубліковано 16 лип 2023
- looking at Gwen from Across the Spider-Verse.
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Prod. Mila Moon Lofi Rock type beat
Nameless Song
Gwyn, Lord of Cinder
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#spiderman #acrossthespiderverse #intothespiderverse - Фільми й анімація
what are your thoughts on Gwen in this movie?
thank you for watching!
She messed up a lot. But it was never out of mal intent. But nothing that can’t be fixed
Relatable as hell!
You know that song by Trippie Red? Sad and Alone?
That was a spectacular video!
I blame Miguel for fooling that little girl into thinking that he was her dad. He messed everything up
The Gwen hatred blows my mind, she fucked up she knows she fucked up now all she wants to do is fix it and save the man she loves. This is what we call a character arc and hers was incredible to watch
I’m not on any social media platforms so I haven’t looked for hate or other ppls perspective. I genuinely believe that she made a mistake and that’s okay there is no defending it or atleast there shouldn’t be and there shouldn’t be any criticism for it either she simply fucked up we are allowed to be human. Allow her that, and also allow her to try to redeem herself. I honestly think her arc will be beautiful if we allow that for her.
@@Satsuionly
On god, I don't get why people want something to flow perfectly, I love it when there are some flaws about characters, it makes them feel so much more human
@@Satsuionlyhonestly you really can defend qwens actions tho because if you actually put yourself in her shoes and experienced the things she did most people would probably do what she did
You realize it after noticing her expressions during the end of the nueva train chase, then she immediately stands up for him in front of miguel, then after getting the watch she goes to tell miles parents directly that shes gonna find him. And now she has a band of the other spiders who also support miles. She really is doing the most of what she can as of right now
@@lmgmodefoxyakalugnutin my opinion, it’s because of that which allows people to dislike her because of her humanity, we all dislike some people and just because they make a mistake that can make sense doesn’t mean it has to be forgiven or saying they’re just being human doesn’t forgive it either
People hate Gwen? For me this movie made me love her character even more, her development was so good!
Same
Honestly I love her character. People will hate on this iteration of Gwen but then and go suck off the MJ from the OG Tobey trilogy. Blows my mind.
Really, I'm glad I don't have social media.
People seem to be hell-bent on hating on the weirdest stuff possible.
I quite liked Gwen in this film. Sure, she was cool in the first one, but not that ulterior.
In this one? She was very interesting.
@@thomasmorales4262nobody sucks her off 😂😂😂😂
People hate everything just to hate
Feel like people are being too harsh to Gwen given her situation. And she's taking ownership of her mistakes and is trying to make up for it
absolutely fact
Exactly
Fair enough but when Hobie carried as hard as he did I think she and Peter deserve as much shit as they’ve gotten💀
@@bobbyshewan4229Praising an anarchist for doing anarchic things isn’t a flex. I love Hobies character but he isn’t homeless nor does he rely on the society for comfort.
@@bobbyshewan4229Hobie’s only reason for being in the society was to look out for Gwen (and, by extension, Miles). Gwen was there because she had nowhere else to go, and was being manipulated by them under the constant threat of exile. It’s not really comparable.
Gwen was trying to make sure a whole universe didn't get destroyed while also protecting Miles. I doubt any normal person could do the same as her.
That's exactly how I saw it.
this is literally the problem, she treats miles like a child, and as if she needs to shelter him when hes already proved himself to be an EQUAL to her
“Gwen was wrong. But everything she did, she did out of love”
How some people didn’t see this is really frustrating. Great video, you captured everything perfectly and succinctly.
thanks!
These are the same type of fans that hate skylar but worship Walter white. I like Walter white but it’s crazy to hate on her when he’s in a shoe full of Monsters
Exactly! Thank you!
@@SagesRainwhy do you do that fake cringe deep voice?
@@chrisc4507In Sage's voice: Because it sounds cool 😎 like batman 🦇
What personally love about Gwen arc is how her unintentional betrayal of miles is a mirror to her dads betrayal of her
The reactions to Gwen in this movie and the discussion around her is a very good way of smoking out those with little media literacy. She's a complex character but she's not difficult to understand. She makes mistakes, yes, but she never means to be hurtful and is doing her best considering her situation, but the way people talk about her makes it seem like she steals candy from children and finds it fun. The movie understands Gwen isn't in the right and paints it as such, but it *never* portrays her as a bad person.
I honestly don't think it takes a lot of media literacy to understand Gwen's basic character arc and motivations.
What it takes is *empathy.* The willingness to give her the benefit of the doubt. A good deal of viewers took one glance at her wearing Hobie's chucks and lost their frickin' minds.
SADNESS is not Equivalent to Complex character
Complex means to be not be able to comprehend or understand certain actions or things
Gwen is a well developed character not complex there is a difference
People should stop associating sadness and emotions with complexity
Although you can say Gwen is a Tragic character but not Complex
@@seyio1717people more associate it with non surface level things and stuff that you have to think about rather then direct actions.
I don’t think Gwen is a complex character but she certainly more complex then like miles or Peter in this movie. As you have read into her previous actions and trauma to understand why she dose what she dose. It’s not too crazy or anything only really takes empathy to understand but for some people they see that on first few watches.
It's not that deep, people who love Gwen in this film are just projecting themselves onto her. Grow up. You wouldn't react this way if Gwen was a cis-male.
Making the movie not only about miles but also Gwen was one of the best things they could have done.
I love how human they made her and how her decisions weren’t necessarily malicious but just made out of fear of losing someone she loved.
I’m the end she realizes that doing what’s right is more important than abiding to the canon and she tries to fix her mistake.
Nah , That sucks !
@@Savage-nv6wrno it doesn't
I just think the point could have gotten across more if theyd have started with miles and saw from his eprspective - until we later get to see gwens perspective and why she did what she did and what she has been through
Thank you so much for this analysis! Gwen’s journey in ATSV absolutely broke me and it was so sad to see people overlooking it and wave her off simply as traitor to Miles
The spider verse films are to smart for those illiterate children.
They would’ve called Zuko a bad character back then if the internet was more prominent.
@@Treck533i think the gen z generation are just people who are very emotional and loyal, majority love miles and see him as the main character, to them it doesn’t matter where the betrayal came from or what reasons gwen had- she still betrayed him and you have to know where the “children” stand (with miles), it’s unfair and a bit rude to just call them illiterate and as you said, they’re “children” so give them just as much understanding as you seem to give gwen
@@Treck533 I keep saying this since the Gwen hate arised, had atla been released around this era of the internet, ppl would absolutely LOATHE how zuko betrayed katara during the book 2 finale and wouldn’t be rooting for his redemption.
@@past8home Oh, for sure. Miles gets far too much love
@@zeinmets3550 rightfully so
Her watercolor style is incredibly fitting to her character here, she's soft, but feels like a stain
I agree completely. People are way too quick to hate Gwen without even considering her situation, especially with her own father disowning her and trying to arrest her, so she wanted to avoid returning at all cost, and thus she did whatever Miguel told her
The best way to sum up my feelings of Gwen is stated by Dr. Manhattan, " Without condoning or condemning, I understand."
Never knew the person's name of where that came from until now. Thanks
@@FreshZCORD You're welcome
People forget Gwen is a teenager and still learning about life but on top that she carries a responsibility to do the right thing. Now people make mistakes and that is again apart of life. I know Gwen would do this differently if it could restart. No one is perfect. I can't wait to see Miles's reaction to when he sees Gwen and company save him but they do need a heartfelt conversation during the third movie.
Exactly. Being a teenager in this position is not easy at all
She's a broken 16 year old and I always felt that the spider society is at fault for giving someone who *just had* a traumatic event without closure or time to heal the heavy responsibility to check up on such an important matter. Miguel knowing Gwen should've seen this coming since he's aware of their connection so to me for someone so hellbent on maintaining the canon it sure seemed like something he would've squashed immediately but instead almost gambles on her ability to put all her feelings aside for the mission.
Exactly
I said it before, but it reminds me of religion, or at least how a cult indoctrinates a follower. The spider society takes Gwen in when she’s at her lowest point, and pass their beliefs on canon to her, and if she doesn’t abide by it, they’ll kick her out and send her home. Like how a cult takes desperate people and exploits their beliefs onto those people, and if they don’t agree, they’ll cast them out.
The conversation Jessica has with Gwen while Lylah is scanning for the Spot suggests that Miguel did not know about the assignment. It was Jessica herself that assigned the mission to her.
But before we give Miguel too much credit, we can see him reviewing Gwen's visit with Miles on his console, revealing that Gwen is under constant surveillance.
Something tells me Miguel *wanted Gwen to draw Miles into the Spider Society, so that Miguel could trap him.
Even if he *wasn't planning to lure Miles into a trap, he probably foresaw the possibility that Miles would follow Gwen, and planned accordingly.
I didn't know if they could outdo Into the Spider-Verse, and they somehow did. This movie felt just as infinitely deep, with characters that felt like they grew across the films. Gwen's arc shown was also a terribly easy thing to relate too. I'm excited for the next movie, and also any videos you'd make on this great work of art.
Also damn, Gwyn's theme hurt there
They didn’t outdo they build on what they already established and made it more adult and emotional. Those who don’t like the film don’t understand it.
I didn’t even realize there was a significant level of Gwen hatred at all until this video, watching the movie I felt like I could fully understand all of her actions and tbh her scenes are among my favorite and dare I say some of the best in the entire movie. There’s something about her conversations with her dad that capture an aspect of depression and disconnect from those around you that has never been depicted so vividly and accurate to how it feels to be in those moments. I never thought her character needed defending because she felt so human and real that I felt like I could immediately empathize with her even though I had never had her exact experiences. I love her character, I love this movie and I can’t wait for the third, I really hope she and miles get the happy ending they both deserve.
I don’t think it’s hatred of Gwen per se, but more so thinking more about the results of her actions rather than the motive and mindset that led her to making the choices she did. From what I’ve seen, those who are capable of seeing Gwen as she is look at her total motives and the reasons why she was the way she was in the movie, looking at her as a complete human that is flawed and makes mistakes like everyone else. On the other hand, those that had or have issues with her seem to look more at the consequences of her actions and view the results of them on Miles with more importance. I know for me personally, I can see both sides and understand how each side feels. When I first came out of the theater, I had a negative out look on Gwen since, despite her motives, ultimately her actions ended up harming Miles a lot, to the point where it almost feels like betrayal, which to me is one of the worst things you can do to someone. However, after thinking about it more, I understand why she did what she did and while I still don’t like what she did and feel that she could and should’ve done things differently, I understand where she was coming from.
@@marcow246naw it's definitely towards her I've seen comments where they act like she's the absolute worst
@@elishawilson5342 funny how that seems to happen to female characters so often...
@@K.C-2049 ain't that the truth
@@K.C-2049 Funny how Peter B is actually worse in this aspect but he doesn't seem to get flamed as much 🤔
I love Gwen’s character. She is a very human character. Her character arc was fully flesh out. I think her and miles relationship is very cute. They learn and inspire each other. Feels very authentic
Much better than the comics where they meet for a few hours and started kissing lol 😂
I loved Gwen in this movie; even though she made all these wrong decisions, she felt relatable, because, as you said, she struggled under a persona that led others to believe she was perfect and put-together. I really related to that, as well as her fears of developing close relationships for fear of loss. I would love to see your take on Miguel and his similar fears of loss and how his trauma has impacted his decision-making and his idea of what it means to be Spider-Man!
The best part is how Gwen’s story actually mirrors Miles from the first story.
As you mention how Gwen looked like she had everything together. By the second film, she had been overwhelmed by a new event, tried to push more responsibility into solving other people’s problems, see herself fail, then take a leap of faith to redeem herself.
Now we’re waiting for Gwen’s “I always get back up.” Which will most definitely happen.
While it is justifiable to be angry with Gwen for hurting and betraying Miles. It is also important to know that she had legitimate fear towards losing another person in her life, and that's how she became manipulated into protecting Miles by not seeing him or even allowing him to know that his father has to die or that he is an anomaly. When in reality the society just didn't like Miles because he was an "anamoly" and didn't follow the canon. And them knowing Gwen and how much she cares for him was the perfect way to manipulate her like that. Because if were being real, she most definitely wanted to see Miles the moment Miguel told her that the watch can go anywhere.
Something important people seem to look over is that she truly BELIEVED in Miguel's theory of a chief needing to die in order to preserve the canon, and was doing her best to protect it. Especially if it meant withholding information from Miles.
She was making the hard decision that no one wants to make, alongside Miguel. It's just later she discovers that Miguel may not be correct in his theory and decides to put her help and dedication into Miles and helping him.
The lack of media literacy and basic EMPATHY that people have regarding Gwen's character is ASTOUNDING
I don’t think it’s a lack of empathy towards Gwen that made people dislike her, I think it’s an immense amount of empathy towards miles and seeing through Miguel that leads to the reaction people had towards Gwen
the fact that Gwen’s character even needs defending is so stupid, why is media literacy so damn low now 😒 (rhetorical question, ik it’s because of Twitter/TikTok melting everyone’s brains)
Agreed. The writers spelt out all the difficulties of Gwen’s life and people still don’t get her 😂
I'll be honest and say, I did relate to Gwen a lot in Across to Spider-Verse since I also have a bottle-up feelings problem.
It hurts to see Gwen in so much pain. To be in a situation like this would be hard on anyone. She's being told to forget about being happy and to forget about love. As hard as she tries, her heart won't let her. She couldn't see any way out or any hope. But she's willing to fix her mistakes and fight for what she wants. She doesn't deserve any of the hatred put on her. You can't just ignore her suffering.
I think Gwen and Miles get on so well together because they are BOTH anomalies, and Miguel hates that out of fear of the unknown.
How is gwen an anomaly tho?
The fact that ive been seeing people call gwen manipulative and that miles should be with spider byte instead is hilarious.
I love this man’s calming voice!
But yes the hate towards Gwen is honestly ridiculous. She’s a great written character 👌🏾
Gwen Stacy's story in Across the Spider verse truly personifies the phrase "hurt people hurt people." Her father rejected her upon learning she's Spider Woman, and this indirectly caused Gwen to somewhat abandoned Miles and his father to their perceived Canon fate.
Love how characters in stories just aren’t allowed to make mistakes anymore. Especially when it concerns child characters, too. People do realize that characters making mistakes and misjudging situations is how you create tension and get the plot moving forward, right?
Characters are allowed to make mistakes, just as everyone is allowed to be unhappy with the mistakes they make. This goes double when you understand the amount of pain and damage she’s given Miles whether she meant to or not
@@marcow246yes but some of these fans are weirdos that hate females and just like strong male characters like miguel lol that is literally weak as shit internally. Reminds me of breaking bad fans saying skylar if the worst character in a serious full of monsters.
@@marcow246 you’re right, that’s how the whole thing of making mistakes works. Just dislike it when people flip their shit when a character is well meaning but slips up by accident or is mean for 2.5 seconds out of the entire runtime.
Great breakdown. Her love and admiration of miles saved her father but mostly herself in this movie. The writers have done such a fantastic job in writing this incredible love story between them.
I think to understand Gwen’s character and growth. It has to mention her relationship with miles.
In this movie, Gwen thought about him for a whole year and talked about him during her time in the spider society with her being forbidden to see him. She plays the drums cause she can’t stop thinking about him and miles draws gwen cause he can’t stop thinking about her.
When gwen is around miles for the first time the background is pink representing her love for him and being flattered by his drawings.
I really do think that in ITSV Miles was the first one to have a crush on her but Gwen was the first one to develop feelings for him and in the ATSV she suppress her feelings for miles because of the Spider-Man and Gwen Stacy relationship fate. Her saying “in every other universe gwen Stacy falls for Spider-Man” it’s meaning that she confessed her feelings for miles but has to reject it though she doesn’t want to because she feels like it won’t work out at that point.
My defence of Gwen Stacy:
1) she literally said in the beginning she didn’t mean to hurt him and that he is not the only one meaning she hurt herself for hurting him emotionally.
2) miles doesn’t know that she was forbidden to see him, talking and thinking about him. Mostly he doesn’t know why she joined the spider society in the first place ( Gwen’s father pushed her way from her world by pointing a gun at her and felt like she lost the one person she had left. Her father).
3) Conflicted and brainwashed by Miguel’s theory of canon events which limited her expressing herself fully to miles and being honest with him. Plus people are not positioning themselves in her position. I mean how are u suppose to tell ur friend that u were a mistake and ur father is suppose to die.
4) Gwen was only trying to do what’s best for him by protecting him from the truth and making sure he was safe and protected. That’s why she was genuinely worried that miles got hurt in mumbatten. Scared to lose one more friend.
5) Ofc she was going to see Miles. Gwen has feelings for him and is 16 years old meaning that she is going to make mistakes and has flaws. I means she is a kid. Like why is everyone being hard on her for seeing the one person she wanted to see for such a long time.
6) lastly, people are not understanding Gwen’s growth at the end. In the scene where miles told Miguel that he can do both. I reckon that’s when gwen realised that even though Miles is anomaly and that he is not meant to be Spider-Man, he sets a good example on what Spider-Man is meant to be which is to always try to do both no matter how impossible it is. Miles taught Gwen that it’s all possible that you can do both and that she can have a relationship with him. I mean it’s not that hard to see from start to finish that Gwen has great character development. Because this is her movie as much it is to miles. The reason why is because the main plot of the sequel is the love story between Gwen and miles. That’s why in this movie it explored both their feelings for each other throughout the whole movie.
(Miles feels betrayed, some people are not getting the reason why miles said “goodbye Gwen” not only because he feels hurt by her but to show that a part of him still has feelings and love for her). Plus I don’t think she will die because it would hurt the line of miles saying there is a first time for everything. I think they will end up together.
But anyway that’s my defence of Gwen.
Gwen deserves the world. The amount of hate she gets is so outrageously undeserved. In the first few minutes, she states, “I didn’t mean to hurt him, but I did.” She recognizes that she betrayed Miles, feels guilty about it, and seeks to correct her mistake. Hell, the first thing she tries to do when she’s kicked out of the Spider Society is use the watch to follow Miles. Hell, after she receives Hobie’s bootleg watch the first thing she does is rally a team to save Miles, taking out Ben Riley in the process. She’s ready to go to fucking war for this man, no matter what might happen, and if that doesn’t prove she’s not evil, I don’t know what will
It’s just terribly obvious that Gwen is wholly in love with Miles:
1. Her connection with Miles becomes even deeper in the time between movies because as the opening shows, Gwen is on the verge of snapping. The only person holding her together is Miles. It’s the friendship she made and the hope that they’ll see each other again someday. Slowly her feelings start going deeper than friendship .
2. The only thing that calms her is the thought of Miles. She thinks about him all the time, and everywhere. You can see the image of miles on the train both times.
3. Her most prized possession is the selfie she took with Miles on the bus in the first movie. She thinks about being with him a lot. She is literally longing for him, as also the ending to the last movie showed her sitting on top of a building looking at their selfie together. Across the spider-verse implies that she does this a lot.
4. When she finally gets to go to Miles’ dimension she disobeys the order to not see him. She’s so happy that she lights his room up with Pink, and blushes throughout the scene. She also flirts with him a bunch. Gwen literally keeps touching, poking, and looking directly at him in the eyes, anyone who’s dated knows that girls do this with boys they like. Miles is now her friend and her crush.
5. They go on a date and spend the whole day together. They bond at the clock tower, and Gwen basically tells Miles that she really likes him and would like to be more than a friend but she’s afraid of what happens if they take the next step.
6. She makes herself extremely vulnerable(unintentionally) for Miles, so that he can see her flaws. This is very present in the first act of the movie. Gwen’s flaws are on display and it makes her more relatable. She hasn’t been that vulnerable or intimate with anyone else since Peter died.
7. She’s torn up about having to leave Miles and she does not want to go into the portal. She pouts, and looks so sad. That entire scene was amazing because the music, Gwen’s facial expressions and the little words she does say tells the whole story. Even though her mouth hasn’t said the words yet, her heart already took the plunge. Gwen looking out to the city and the upside down imagery is symbolism for her deep love for Miles. That ain’t platonic y’all, that scene was 100% romantic.
8. The entire Mumbattan sequence with the Indian spiderman basically spells this all out. That whole part of the movie was basically Gwen saying “I love you Miles” in almost every way. Pavitr immediately noticed they had feelings for each other and put Miles on blast, that he very obviously is in love with Gwen. Also note this: Gwen NEVER denies that she loves Miles. She just denies that Miles does. At the end of those events she gave the sweetest compliment to him that basically shows her deep feelings:
Miles: So, what do you think?
Gwen: What I always think, you’re amazing.
So at this point, Miles is the person who calms her storm. She is so calm, and at peace around him. But if he’s hurt, it sends her into a panic(as it did when she thought he got hurt under the rubble). Just thinking about him, makes her problems lessen and helped her get through tough times. He is her best friend. He is her crush, and she obviously wants him to herself(note how defensive she got when miles was talking to another girl). In him, she can believe that anything is possible, that there are better days ahead. He inspires her, and it’s no wonder that she’s fallen in love with him.
It's cute that in itsv Miles was obvsly crushing on her, but in atsv Gwen competed with her feelings for him and isn't actually falling behind. She's just as downbad as him but on another LEVEL. The mutual pining and slowburn treatment had me completely rooting for them.
@@raeveii True, but it's just damn tragic how they had them leave off with each other, and only then did Gwen allow herself to make her choice for Miles over everything else. Like at that moment, Miles probably feels like none of them really care for him. I don't envy the writers figuring out how to salvage those feelings on Miles end and make it make sense!
What's more significant is that it's the heroine driving the romantic side of the story vs the male lead in ATSV. They have Gwen literally fall into Miles bedroom, and within about 30 seconds, essentially asks him on a date with the "wanna get outta here?" bit. And the rest of the movie, like you said, she is trying to keep her feelings under control and only after seeing what Miguel is ready to do, and reconciling with her father, she finally allows herself to accept her own feelings for Miles in an authentic way.
That whole second meeting Gwen has with Miles parents is going to factor into the last movie in a significant way!
@@jparry3facts she liked him badly as she literally wanted to hold his hand on the tower but was using all her willpower to finish that line. It was a test to see if miles truly wanted her which he responded perfectly with “first time for everything” first time we saw gwen smile and looked so normal. Man she was going through a lot in this film 😢 I love miles but she’s the best written character in the movie and carried the film
@@GladwinAbel Well said, though I'm hesitant to say she was the "best written". I'd contend that Gwen and Miles are written equally well, but for different purposes.
Gwen's arc is certainly given it's due diligence in ATSV with Miles serving as her moral compass, and romantic interest. She finds a way to whole again and gains a new purpose; a purpose driven by love and a sense of having freedom of choice (and she chooses Miles in all the ways).
Miles is written in the truest form of Spider-Man we can hope for, one who hasn't allowed their scars to subvert their ethics/morals, regardless of whatever pressure they might face.
I keep rewatching several moments from later in ATSV where Gwen's face gives away her true feelings if you tilt your screen upside down. She's intrigued (clocktower), she's terrified (realizing Miles is in wrong universe), and she's broken hearted (hearing Miles parent's talk about how Miles feels about her).
I'd say her facial expressions were even better than some of her lines. God bless the animators. they did an unbelievable job!!!
@@jparry3 yes man I’m kinda disappointed with how fans nowadays treat female characters, they hate on woke strong female characters but when we are blessed with flawed characters like gwen they still don’t accept them, i feel some of them genuinely don’t like to see female with flaws cause to them their toxic like skylar from breaking bad gets so much hate for her flaws and actions that are less horrific than her husband also the protagonist btw, I’m seeing a trend with this movie everyone only sees that miles is hurt but don’t see gwen was always hurt, lost, depressed while miles had his family and was happy but he felt like he needed to be around people like him to feel like he “belong” he is very pure as Spider-Man and embodies everything that his former Peter had full of heart and spirit. Peter didn’t die he lives in miles 😔. This is what gwen likes about him, see how fast they became friends in the bud in part one. He makes her laugh and be herself, feels like gwen has been in Spider-Woman mode all the time she forgot what it’s like to be gwen stacy but miles unmask her. She was scared to make another friend cause she taught she would lose them again, but miles ask to be her friend, in part 1 gwen was the only one who believed in miles and was very impressed when he man up and became Spider-Man. But we can also see her reflecting her trauma with Peter by babying miles sometimes but this movie just showed her why she likes him so much he’s his own man and will fight the world if it means following his heart.
Anybody who doesn’t like Gwen as they finished this movie is clearly brainless. She’s in a terrible position but she’s still trying to do what she believes is the right thing. She has a stronger will than us, along with the pressure of confronting her last family member in such a way and being forced to stay away from a great friend and losing her best friend, while still expecting that her father might die soon. I swear those people are complaining wouldn’t even be able to go through even one of these problems.
Exactly. How do tf do they hate on her when the movie places so much emphasis on her struggles? Dumb ppl
Who gave you the authority to dictate to people what they should or shouldn't like ! You are like that woke ass media who claims that anyone who doesn't like a certain character is racist or sexist . Anyone has the right to choose if the presented character is appealing to them or not ! mf dumb asf 🙄🙄
Can imagine the amount of stress, anxiety, and quite possibly trauma knowing that in most other universes you were meant to die for a greater good? The thought of that scares me, and Gwen, though guard herself in the beginning, still chooses to fights back.
Can't believe we have to make a Defence for her, she's incredibly well written and such a complex character. Best Gwen Stacy so far.
Gwen was probably the most well done character in this film in terms of development. LOVED her in Into The Spider-Verse.. but she was a different level of vulnerable, relatable, and lovable in THIS film. BOTH movies are MASTERPIECES, but Across The Spider-Verse is better.. slightly. Cannot wait for Beyond The SPIDER-VERSE.
Agreed. Whilst I believe both ITSV and ATSV are 10/10 movies ATSV is better imo simply because there are so many emotional moments and the character writing is next level. If BTSV sticks the landing we could be looking at one of the greatest movie trilogies of all time.
She was a total mary sue in the previous movie and they fixed that.
@@Trazynn I wouldn't say she was a Mary Sue but ATSV definitely made her go from a character I kinda liked into one of my favorites.
@@TrazynnReal asf I would've find her so boring if she was the same character as in ITSV
@@Trazynnno she wasn't a Mary Sue bruh
This was literally her movie and it shows how much pain she’s in. It’s misogyny. They love Miguel and he’s the actual problem but can’t forgive her even though she changed in the end.
To be honest I don't get the Gwen hate, she was my favorite character in the movie. This was pretty much her movie starting and ending with her. She had a full arc that felt really satisfying. And she has by far the best quote from the movie, right before Miguel sends her home: "We are supposed to be the good guys".
It stems from the anger around her actions and what she did to miles. That anger then turned to hate cause she doesn’t do anything in the movie to make up for her actions until the very end. Yeah she stands up to Miguel but that doesn’t make up for what happened with miles since he wasn’t even there to see it and what she said to Miguel is what they all should’ve thought from the beginning
I get the movie was mainly made for kids too but did half the audience have selective hearing? They explained why she lied. People who unironically hate Gwen are prob the same people that hate Skylar white even after the show makes it clear you’re supposed to side with her after she becomes trapped and Walt becomes pure evil. I like to rag on her as a joke but for gods sakes I feel like so many don’t get that it’s a joke and actually take it seriously just because so many hate on her and they gotta join the crowd. They made it clear she is very concerned about Miles’ safety and innocence so why would she tell him all that?
She’s literally just choosing what would be the obvious answer on the trolley dilemma. Same for the SS. Same reason I agreed with both Miguel and Miles until Gwen discovered a way to avoid fate. Then Miles’ argument of saving everyone or as many people as possible became the final answer
Why I think Gwen fucked up bad goes back to what Peter B said to Miles in a deleted scene from ItSV
"Don't think about saving the world, just think of saving one person"
Its clear for the entire movie, Gwen initially puts the multiverse on a higher priority than Miles, although she still considers him a very special person in her life.
This means Gwen was trying to save the world as a priority, and not those she loves first and foremost.
She knows she has to keep the multiverse safe, but at the same time she isn’t sure if those she loves will be safe. She isn’t sure if Miles will be safe, and she initially thinks her dad will die soon due to the nature of canon events. Because of this, she isn’t clear headed, leading to her failure in AtSV.
But by unintentionally making her dad quit his position as police captain, that removes him from the canon event equation, meaning Gwen will be able to come home to a loving dad once again. By doing this, she saves one person, her dad.
Ensuring her dad’s safety gives her the clarity she needs to see the road ahead. Its clear that she knows *exactly* what she needs to do by the confident smile she does before leaping into the portal.
Every decision Gwen makes can be easily connected with something that has happened to her before. Calling her a traitor to Miles simply because she lied to him is already a clear indication how incompetent most people are when it comes to understanding a character.
Gwen is one of the best written characters brought to life on the screen and her development in these last two movies has been perfect.
Honestly for me Gwen's story is the most tragic on screen (Miguel's for example is in flasbacks not really on screen) for me. I don't see how anyone could hate her when everything just kept falling apart around her.
Miles is very clearly Gwen's first crush since her Peter (who died tragically in a way that's made the public and to some extent herself blame herself) and doesn't know what to do on that front as just a teenager. This is just made 10x worse when she meets Miguel in an event that makes her feel abandoned by her dad and indepted to miguel and jess (because she doesn't think she can go home; also hammers in that those two also aren't terrible people).
Flash forward to the main plot and she FINALLY gets the chance to go see Miles again (seemingly having begged for the opportunity) but has also been briefed on how Jess and Miguel view Miles' himself as an anomaly and to blame for the mess they're trying to clean up. She then doesn't want to hurt Miles by sharing this and knows he can't be involved, but herself wants to see Miles and talk to him. Eventually her feelings win out and she tries to have it both ways (as teenagers tend to). Miles gets involved because he himself wants to spend time with not just Gwen but all his friends from other dimensions having felt so alone as Spider-Man. That leads to the mess we see. The entire time Gwen was on the fence between helping Miguel who she's indebted to and Miles who she cares for. She was pretty wish washy in helping Miguel at least (not really stopping Miles from saving the Cop or chasing him too hard for capture). Similar to Peter B. Parker and other friends (Hobie still the GOAT tho for never having any of that nonsense).
When Gwen was forced home and learned she still had a home and dad that loved her and friends like Hobie willing to fight for Miles with her, she was able to make a decision to follow her feelings with conviction. I mean if I'm being frank, Gwen is dealing with her seemingly second crush ever in a high stakes situation in her teens way better than I am well into my 20s with a crush I don't want for someone I can't reasonably be with (not to mention just not wanting a relationship). *Just saying, I'd be really surprised if anyone complaining could make half as good choices in Gwen's situation.*
She's kinda a fugitive in her home dimension, struggles to be part of something that helped her in her darkest hour and her budding connection with a boy like her in other dimension
Gwen Stacy from Spider-Verse has her own Wikipedia article. She's the only character from these films that does at time of writing (not their comic counterparts, these specific versions). That's a testament to how well this movie wrote Gwen, and I'd honestly consider her the main character of ATSV.
Almost all of these characters are not copied from their comic personality wise and direction. Gwen is definitely a co protagonist cause she initiated the plot but miles is the center of the conflict in the movie and gwen motivation for all her actions including her beautiful speech to her dad people don’t like what she did cause miles made gwen and Peter life better and they tried to dehumanize him
Gwen doesn’t need defense. Anyone that hates her simply doesn’t deserve to even witness such an amazing movie filled with three dimensional characters and story.😤
I was able to grasp all that you succinctly laid out because it was well told in the movie. One just has to look, listen & comprehend. Miles and Gwen’s story are beautifully told. You’re not supposed to turn into Twilight fans & start a “team Gwen” & “team Miles” kind of nonsense. You’re supposed to be able to look at things from their varying pov and understand how their history, trauma, values & personality play impacts their interpersonal conflict, not pick sides or label them wrong or right.
Their story & arcs are so beautifully woven together that it makes me so excited to see how they interact in Beyond.
The remedial who lack basic media literacy needs to step to the left & go stick to whatever movie gives them their one dimensional, shallow characters & stories they clearly prefer.😤
7:40 THEY FUCKING REMOVED HER LINES IN THAT SCENE WHY TF WOULD SONY DO THATTTT
This cements to me that it is simply impossible for female characters in superhero films particularly to have any flaws without recieving disproportionate hate from audiences.
Everytime we see a female character get hate, the argument is "its not just what she did, its how smug about it she was/its that the story treats it like what she did was right/its that she didnt even come to terms that what she did was wrong", and Im like okay, valid point.
Here we have a character who made a series of huge mistakes for some very understandable and valid reasons, she isnt smug about it, she doesnt try to excuse her own actions, she is apologetic, the story treats her mistakes with the weight that they deserve and by the end she makes moves to put things right and help the friend that she hurt. And she's still getting hate. The anti sjw crowd showing their hand yet again: if the character isnt sexually appealling and does anything to hurt or offend the main male protagonist, then she is automatically the worst character in the film.
People: We're tired of flawless female characters who make no mistakes!!
Sony: *proceeds to give them an imperfect female character who learns from her mistakes*
People: She's a traitor, nah ah! We could've done better in her place!
“Because that is what the mask represents”
This is why Spider-Man is the greatest character of all time, and all the other spider people perfectly represent this in their own way.
Love the ATSV content!
thanks!
He's not a whole lot different from the hundreds if not thousands of other super heroes lol
@@chilibruhhe's the most human superhero
@@elishawilson5342 the most normal/relatable to the average person, perhaps. But even then, is he really all that different from, say, the flash?
@@chilibruh what are you talking about flash is an expert in forensics and criminal justice who was struck by a thunderbolt Peter even though he's a genius is still just a guy who struggles to get by and has a hard time balancing his superhero life with a normal life I don't see how you can say they aren't all that different they're completely different
Sometimes, it feels like people didn’t even watch the movie. I’ve seen the most ABSURD videos and comments talking about this movie that are so far removed from the narrative that it makes me think people just didn’t watch the movie at all and are just frontin. Gwen obviously wasn’t a bad or evil character, her decisions were very layered. Same for even Miguel. There was no pure evil villain in this movie ASIDE FROM SPOT and even then, you can argue he isn’t even really a villain at heart but embracing something he feels he needs to be. People need to think above the surface level context of things. Meta narrative, look it up, it may help you contextualize things that aren’t in your face.
I will never understand the pure hatred people have for Gwen in this movie. Yes, she made mistakes and in a sense did hurt Miles but people seem to forget her own dad was ready to pull the trigger on her before and AFTER she revealed herself to him, followed two Spider people to a place where it's heavily implied that she was homeless up until she met Hobie and to top that all off, COULDN'T even go see the one person that she considered her friend. Where in all of that does it read that Gwen was some villainous mastermind purposefully trying to hurt Miles?! She was a kid who was hurting and had no where else to turn. The crazy thing is, the same people who hate on Gwen are the same ones who will look at Miguel, a literal GROWN man beefing with a kid and should not be leader of the Spider Society, and say "Yeah he did nothing wrong."
Most of the hate are people that don’t like interracial especially white girl and black guy that’s why they ship him with Margo.
Yeah, the "Gwen was a manipulative traitor, but Miguel was right" people are very confusing. Like pick a lane, people. If Miguel was right, then Gwen was right for the actions she took concerning Miles.
The hatred towards Gwen vs the understanding of Gwen feels to me like the difference between believing that the results and consequences of an action being the only thing that matters and the reasons and motives of an action being important. Much of the hatred towards Gwen seems to come from the view that what she did to miles was horrible and having too much empathy for miles compared to Gwen.
you are right let's say they brainwashed him into turning against the person he loves and obviously repenting...now let's see if miles forgives her but i think he forgives her because it wouldn't make sense for a Spider-Man Miles to hold grudges against Spider Gwen
not sure how it'll play out but I feel like they might do something like have him forgive her but not want to be in a relationship with her.
I was never angry at Gwen for her decisions. After everything she went through, I can understand how her decision-making and thinking were messed up. It just sucks that it lead to her unintentionally hurting Miles.
I love how you pointed out that the canon rationalizes her loss and serves as a means to cope; I never thought of it like that! Dealing with the great burden of responsibility and grief as a teenager? all alone? Of course she would latch on to older authority figures who seemingly have an explanation for her pain.
I'm also glad that you emphasized her adoration towards Miles. I've seen quite a few people say she never truly loved him, but! her love for Miles is what ultimately pushed her to return to her core values (aka to take that leap of faith and go save her best friend). As you said: "...even if she dies, at least Gwen Stacy can say that she tried. She tried to save someone she loves. She tried to save someone who might need her help. Because that is what the mask represents." Wonderfully put!
First
I was actually surprised that Gwen was getting negative feedback, I never had a problem with any of these characters, okay maybe except Peter taking his daughter to another conflict after Miles escaped to Earth 42 and that Spider Woman who was pregnant still insisting on going on missions knowing that she was endangering her baby. That felt they were being reckless and aren’t thinking things through.
Your user name is the same as Miles and Gwen son
I really like mayday and want miles to meet her probably but yea I don’t know why he is taking her again, the spider society is fine cause he didn’t know it was gonna get crazy.
I feel like if they felt like they were endangering their children they wouldn't be doing all of this. And even if these decisions are bad they're nothing character ruining.
@@GladwinAbelIn general I think the reason is b/c It's going to be cute as heck to see more of Mayday's antics and having the kid along is part of the fantasy of the narrative we just accept in exchange for those antics.
But I'm a little scared that there is a major plot reason to have Mayday along.
In the canon event, the Captain has to have a little child to save.
A lot of people seem to forget Gwen is only 16 or 17 and they expect her to behave like she's a grown woman. Kids make mistakes and she made a mistake in not telling Miles the truth but she didn't do it with evil intent, twirling a mustache or cackling like a super villain. She honestly didn't know what to do and had every other Spider-person telling her what she was doing was right. Miles does have a right to be upset and will start off the next movie mad at her more than likely but once he sees she's come to rescue him, gathered her own crew of Spider people and she'll basically travel anywhere throughout the spider verse to find him I'm sure they'll make up
The more and more i watched Gwen's actions, the more I realized that Miles Morales was truly the greatest thing that has happened to her.
I really hope at the end that they end up together. Cause whether Gwen realizes it or not, she has absolutely fallen for him. And its not just anyone she fell for. She fell for a man that will defy the world and "fate" itself just to save and protect the people he loves. She can only imagine how far he'll go for her.
Gwen: "In every universe, Gwen Stacy falls for Spider-Man, and in every other universe, it doesnt end well."
Miles: "Well, theres a first time for everything right?"
Thats what Miles is to her, what hes ever been throughout the entire movie.....HOPE. The very HOPE or prospect of a GOOD ending. One where she walks away, truly happy. And the more she watches Miles, the more she learns how she can or should fight for her happiness. At least when she fights with Miles, she will NEVER be alone in that fight.
The best ending they can possibly give this trilogy, is one where Miles and Gwen end up together. Truly happy.
....and defining their own fate as they go along.
Thank you people don’t know how much miles impacted gwen and peters life he made their life’s so much better give them hope that’s why it’s sad that they didn’t do the same for him 😢
The fact that no one criticizing her takes into account what she's experienced before hating on her is astounding. The funny thing is most of them aren't half as critical on Peter B. for "betraying Miles" or even Miguel for being pretty far gone. I think a big part of it is cause they want to hate on Gwen for whatever reason.
A big part of why people don’t go in nearly as hard on Peter b compared to Gwen is the different dynamics at play. Peter b is at most a mentor to Miles where as Gwen is the one Miles loves. At the end of the day, both their actions borders on betrayal towards Miles but one is the betrayal of someone he loved and was hoping to be loved back by, which I think people connect with more leading to a much stronger reaction. As for the Miguel situation, anyone who defends Miguel’s point of view is genuinely media illiterate but only because of their view on Miguel, not their view on Gwen
These videos help me with my comic series these breakdowns help me focus on parts of characters that i normally wouldn't keep it going man you are a master at your craft.
Same here.
Agreed
I mean, look at Gwen when she returned to Miles's Dimension after being kicked out by the Spider Society.
Shortly after sending Scarlet Spider packing, she walked menacingly and crushed SS's watch in cold anger. Gwen is incredibly guilty for what she did to Miles and immediately went to his rescue and not only that, she is f-in pissed at the society for condemning her father and Jefferson to death.
So yeah, she pretty much intends to do what Miguel did to Miles, BREAK EVERY BONE IN THEIR BODIES!
Gwen is fully prepared to burn down the entire multiverse for Miles at this point. She was already taken with him and wanted him all to herself but we all know she was holding back out of fear.
Now, since she knows her father is going to be alright, the Society doesn't have the mental hold on her anymore and she is letting her true feelings come through.
Miles won't come back to her easily and she's going to have to be the most vulnerable she's ever been with anyone, but i expect she'll probably get a 3ish minute monologue to explain everything and tell Miles point blank how she feels about him
Fans had a right to be angry with Gwen but hating her was always overkill, especially (in my honest opinion) she’s a teenager who was lowkey manipulated by people she looked up to.
I love the videos defending her and whoever called her selfish and thinks that she doesn't care about Miles hasn't watched the movie. She had no place to live and was blackmailed by Miguel to do what he says or he'll send her home. Nothing here was up to her. She was just another victim of that stupid spider cult before she had enough help to take things in her own hands.
I’d say people who watched the movie and call her selfish and what not did watch the movie, but just are too hurt and blinded by personal experience to understand Gwen. I think if the moves past their own pain, they find a character who’s making mistakes and trying the do good but with an incorrect mindset. Also, I don’t think anyone should really be defending Gwen, considering while her actions can be understood when in context, they are in no way justified or warrant defense. At most, an explanation of the character is fitting
I feel like a lot of people are just relating to her to some toxic ex that cheated on them or something, it really doesn't sound like a lot of the Gwen haters go any deeper than that
Ppl who hate on Gwen didn't watch the movie. They watched stupid tiktok reels villainizing her. They have a 20sec limit attention span for a 2hr long movie with complex character arcs lol
TikTok be the worst app when it comes to movies cuz there’s always simpletons shitting on characters they can’t comprehend
@@donathan2933 they have so much energy making these edits but not enough mental capacity to understand how a character growth works smh.
@@glyyyn451 yup. Stupid people
I watched this movie 4 times and not once did I blame Gwen. She’s a teenager who made mistakes out of fear and love. Tbh she handled things better than I would in her situation.
I only hated her for what she did to Mile’s collectible 😐
Edit: also great addition of Dark Souls songs, respect
Gwen is the heart and soul of ATSV. She is presented with moral dilemmas where choices result in unintended consequences that are impossible for her to predict. She starts the film broken, makes mistakes and tries to do what is right but fails. She ends the film where she started and resolves the central problem of her home life and is set on the path to make things right again. If her character arc is not compelling than I don't know what is.
I don't understand how the internet and the fandom can let Peter B. off the hook, pity Miguel without blaming him for lying or being wrong about the canon, and absolutely hate Gwen for.. being manipulated into thinking her best friend and partner could die, like her last friend did? What even is that logic-
If anything, the order of "guiltiness" should be Miguel first, and Gwen should be one of the last because she thought she could trust a group of Spider people, like she did in the first movie. Is she wrong to believe people that should have her same morals and be on her side? Hell no.
I can't believe we have to explain something that is so obvious in the movie. The first *minute* of the movie is literally her saying that she felt bad for hurting Miles. The entire sequence is supposed to show how much she loves him and wishes he was there, because she doesn't really have anybody else like her to talk to.
As soon as she gets a reason to, she visits her best friend, it is super awkward, but that's only because she's not used to social interactions. And if you see the scene in Mumbattan where Miles saves the chief, Gwen is frantic thinking he died because of her. Literally, her entire reason for doing any of this is for Miles. *HOW CAN PEOPLE THINK OTHERWISE?!* It's _beyond_ me. (pun intended.)
Anyway, I love how you analyze characters in such a profound and well worded way. I think the same as you, but now in a more complex way thanks to your video. Keep it up man. New sub 🔥
(PS, I made this comment yesterday which is still how I feel after watching this, and to not have to type this out again, I pasted it with some modifications. Just in case you see the original comment!)
I don’t think the fandom let Peter B off the hook, but instead put him on the back burner do deal with later. As for Gwen, I understand where the anger is coming from and it’s not a place of genuine hatred for the most part, but a place of empathy for Miles since no matter what her reasons were, no matter how she feels about her actions afterwards, she hurt him in a way that can’t be fixed easily and will more than likely stick with him for a while. Of course, Peter B did the same thing but the difference is that he’s at most a mentor and Gwen is a love interest, which leads to Gwen’s actions causing far more pain. As for Miguel, the only ones defending or ok with him don’t understand that the entire concept of canon events is pure copium nonsense. Overall, those that are giving Gwen some hate are doing it mostly out of empathy for Miles and an understanding of the pain she’s brought him, intentional or not
@@marcow246 Yeah I understand the empathy with Miles, but most of them aren't doing it out of the goodness of their heart, I'd say a lot of the people that I've seen dislike her are just hating on her for making a mistake, and are way too angry for it being such an ignorant one and the fact that they're sometimes projecting themselves onto Miles. A lot of people I've seen act this way even admit it, commenting that they see their past bad relationship in Miles' which is completely untrue, they're going through a tough time but it will just see how much it can stand. A pothole, if you will. If the car breaks down after it, it wasn't meant to be. If it keeps chugging along, it's stable. Thanks for your input on this though, have a nice day
You talking about Gwen having survivor’s guilt as a Gwen Stacy who survived when people she cares about keep dying reminds me the Hamilton song “Wait For It.”
Death doesn’t discriminate between the sinners and the saints
It takes and it takes and it takes
And we keep living anyway
We rise and we fall
And we break
And we make our mistakes
AND IF THERE’S A REASON I’M STILL ALIVE
WHEN EVERYONE WHO LOVES ME HAS DIED (emphasis mine)
I’m willing to wait for it
Gwen is wracked with guilt over Peter’s death, over what she sees as her father’s impending death, so she just carries on through each day like nothing changed, and she doesn’t want to subject Miles to her deadly touch, but she can’t help wanting to see him once more.
Your points are very valid.
But I think by survivor's guilt, Sage was referring to the lack of other Gwen Stacys. What would it feel like to know you are dead in every other universe?
One thing I think many forget about the Spider Legacy is... that they are flawed. Not on their character but on their emotions, they all have a deep deep empathy, so much that if they didn't have an outlet for that they would be extremely depressed... which has happened to Peter many times.
And that is if they don't completely go off the deep end, there are many spiders in the multiverse that are outright monsters.
This legacy is a beautiful thing, being a Spider is one of the very few true hero legacies, but it is too a mark of a deep emotional problem, and just because it hurts... it does not make it right.
Gwen understood that at the end of the movie, so did many others
And about the "cannon events"... I could understand if the multiverse would react if they tried to change their pasts, but this isn't the past, but their present and future, Miguel is just hurting too much to see that, and all the others are just too empathetic to dig deeper, in a way this movie shows that as important as it is to share the same pain with others, it is dangerous to dive too deep on that and it is important to have people that don't suffer from the same so that you can have perspective
Personally, I am kinda convinced that what happened with Miguel is some event akin to an Incursion, with this sharing a "universe" with the MCU it isn't impossible, but he was grieving and I doubt even he is smart enough to know everything that it is to know (which is kinda ironic when most Spiders have high to genius level intellect... but I presume that only makes it worse XD).
I wasn’t aware that Gwen needed defending. She’s an absolutely awesome character.
Is it possible for you to do a deep dive on The Owl House? I would really love to hear your breakdown of Luz's character growth throughout the series.
The movie did a good job showing how conflicted Gwen was between being on the side of spider society or Miles, and her regret from not helping miles was emotionally hard-hitting.
I also don’t really hold her lies to miles agaisn her, since she acknowledged how much she hurt him at the start of the film.
They seem to forget one thing: Gwen is not an adult, she's a kid! Around 15 or 16 at least. Of course she's bound to make mistakes. It infuriates me how people bash on her as if they would make better decisions in her position.
I didn't realize there was hate against Gwen. Like how you described I saw Gwen as someone who was broken from the amount of stuff she just experienced and never found a way to let those emotions go. So given how she is mentally, while also having these huge responsibilities, it makes sense to me that she would have a hard time trying to decide on what is the right decision.
people really be refusing to empathize and hate on anything
The idea of accepting canon is often the most "unacceptable". It's often the reason people write fanfictions for their favorite franchises, because they want characters to be better than they are portrayed, to provide alternate takes on concepts, or simply to have a better ending for a story. Defying destiny and breaking the mold is why I love the story of Gwen Stacy.
My feelings exactly
Gwen was fast tracked to my favorite character by this movie 100%, she has a lot of work to get Miles back and his trust back I feel, but I know she can do it.
I finally just saw Across the Spider-Verse over the weekend and was delightfully surprised to see that Gwen of all characters got so much hate. Like, she's a kid who's going through a lot and made a lot of mistakes. That's a hallmark of any Spider-Man character!
Well most people like to hate on female characters and also she likes a black guy I literally see on twitter they hating her for that
@@GladwinAbelas a black woman that’s so sad and dumb. I ship them since I was teen from the first movie
@@winifredeghrudje9427same. But Twitter is a toxic app full of racist corrupt people so I’m not surprised. As a black boy I ship them two
I think a decent amount of anger towards Gwen comes from people feeling an incredibly strong connection to Miles throughout the movie
@@marcow246 yeah but they if they actually took time to understand Gwen’s arc they’d relate to her more
I was absolutely flabbergasted when a UA-camr called zephire said “Gwen was manipulating miles”
HUH?!?!
At what point In the entire movie was she manipulative????
What I'm saying. People are exaggerating the situation so much
Yea I know that guy he has terrible takes in general disliking one punch man, saying vegeta ruined dragon ball etc. plus he keeps calling gwen a snow bunny which is kinda disrespectful
People who hate Gwen are used to see the "strong, independent , female character" that marvel e media today love to push, but Gwen isn't that she is an actually well written character with depth and flaws that make her believable and relatable.
You have no idea what you are talking about do you ! People hate Gwen because of how she treated Miles , not because she's woke !
@@Savage-nv6wr Can you read ? if the answer is yes , then read my comment and them yours again.
😂
You're making stuff up now
@@DEML91 what's your point , you said that the anti woke fans hate Gwen , then you claim that Gwen isn't woke ! Which is not the point , Gwen is hated because she betrayed Miles ! It seems you can't even understand what you yourself wrote in the first place !
I don't blame Gwen at all
Miguel is really the one to blame for what happened
Would love to see a video on stoic from httyd series on masculinity and fatherhood ❤
Mee too -- that franchise is BEAUTIFUL
Gwen has become my favorite character in the Spiderverse
This is so beautifully goddamn written AAAA
Gwen really feels like the true protagonist of ATSV. Miles started and end the movie as the same guy, whereas Gwen actually changed over the course of that same time-span.
Yes gwen got a arc and started the plot but miles is the center of why everything is happening. Plus miles started the film believing he needed his friends to feel he “belong” but he learnt that Spider-Man means independence in the end as everyone betrayed him. It made him stronger and showed how strong his spirit and heart is movie elevated miles as he don’t need character development
@@GladwinAbel Touche.
@@GladwinAbel I'd contend Miles got a good chunk of character development in ATSV, just not as dramatically significant as Gwen.
Miles has a healthy home life and simply developed an understanding of his own independent capacity from having to straight up outsmart an entire dimension full of people who wanted him to suffer unnecessary tragedy.
In the same breathe, as Miles was doing all of this, the veil is pulled off of Gwens eyes and she fully realizes that Miles has it right, and "her gut" was pointing her in the correct direction the whole time: Toward Miles
I've watched two times already and I can't get enough of Gwen man... she's strong but flawed, caring and delicate... i just love it!
I like how you used the gwyn theme in your videos. It brings back a lot of memories for me
Do you have a listening device in my head? Because you are transmitting my complete thoughts on this.
Amazing work!
Seriously, this video is the definitive defense of Spider-Gwen. You covered every cogent point precisely.
On a side note, can you imagine how she must have felt when she first came to Nueva York, so hopeful that this was her chance to finally see Miles again. And when she asks, Miguel sits her in front of his console and shows her Gwen Stacy after Gwen Stacy after Gwen Stacy falling in love with Spider-man and then seeing her neck snap in the fall.
I wonder how many it took to kill that last ray of hope she had.....
thank you!
I actually really liked Gwen in the movie, exactly for the reason that she DIDN'T have everything figured out regarding her current life and stance on how the canon really works. This movie was excellent for her arc, and it is important to note this is just the half of it and we will eventually see how the rest will develop and roll out.
Which is why the jokes on social media about how Gwen is a let down, while funny to a degree at first quickly became sour real fast. People (majority which im assuming from the male audience) started to compare the situation between Gwen and Miles to the "classic" (romantic) case of 'the guy doing everything for the girl and that girl being shitty towards him', and that comparison feels just so...icky in a way i can't briefly explain. Hobie 'being a real one' is brought up as the number one argument to nail down how terrible Gwen was as a character. But one thing never i never seen brought up was the fact that Hobie's core personality is being 'consistently inconsistent': He is THE rebel, hence why he is the only one who actually had the gall to stand up to Miguel's ideology and the only who did not went after Miles. Not Gwen, not Peter B, not Peni, all of whom have known Miles and are supposed to be his comrades. Yet it's only Gwen^s actions that is brought up.
I would have liked it if the internet -if they were gonna point out the flaws of judgement of the characters in the first place- would have given equal treatment regarding that case (im looking at you Peter). It feels like dogpiling on just one character for not being right regarding their stance. How can so many people demand good writing so aggressively at times, and when they get it refuse the see the situation and reasons of the said character? Is that not the point of good writing and what it demands?
Glad there's one super hero film that gets it right.
This exactly is what I have been thinking, you’ve summed it up beautifully
I haven’t seen any of the Gwen haters, but I’ve heard a lot of them, and I find it astonishing. Gwen has a character arc. She grows, develops, and changes. You can develop by just being happy and good and never making mistakes, why change if your perfect? I think a bit of the hate comes from the fact this movie is in two parts, and most of this movie she was a ‘traitor’ to Miles. If the movie was all in one, people would see how she makes up for it (which I assume she will). Oh, and, btw, this isn’t some kind of ‘oh, this is half a movie, it sucks’ or a ‘why didn’t they just make it one movie?’ Comment, I think it’s better in two parts, both for the animators, and it also emphasises the cliffhanger the movie ends on. I hope the hate on Gwen doesn’t scare companies away from making good characters and stories like Gwen.
Gwen was a mary sue in the previous movie, the creators understood that so she dialed up the awkward, indecisiveness up to 11 and it works out great.
Gwen was not a Mary Sue in ITSV. A "Mary Sue" is an author self-insert main character who is always right, an expert at everything, and can do no wrong, and who all the other characters love or envy.
In ITSV, Gwen was a minor secondary character skilled at Spider-Man stuff, who learns to open up a little emotionally to let Miles become her first friend since she accidentally killed her best friend. She's only a bit more prominent than Noir, Peni, and Ham, who were just as skilled as she.
@@dgmillowayThe word Mary-Sue has lost all meaning at this point. It really has. It's a big boogeyman buzzword now.
@@mjangelvortex Yeah, it seems to have just become a term for "Woman I don't like."
My 15-year-old brother who doesn’t usually like female characters liked Gwen the best in this movie. I feel like that’s quite a testament to the writing of her character.
It’s because Gwen actually has flaws and isn’t portrayed as perfect like every other female character is these days. She’s badass and can hold her own in a fight but she doesn’t always win and sometimes even needs help. She isn’t always right and makes mistakes and learns and grows from them. She has moments of emotional vulnerability unlike the bland pieces of emotionless wood we’re getting. She doesn’t act like a narcissist and doesn’t put down male characters to try to elevate her
I feel like so many people didnt understand the movie at all. She was displayed as alone, afraid and angry at the world. All she wanted was her own gang, and she found it in people she thought understood her and she thought she understood them. When in reality the only one she really had was Hobie and I guess Peter B. Gwen was always uncertain, you saw it in every scene she was in that she was conflicted about what she did to miles, she was always questioning the narrative pushed upon her, she just didnt know what else existed. Gwen acted like you would expect a teenager thrust into a situation like this to act. And then she saw that she didnt have to.
She's actually much stronger and more mysterios and swan like than people give her credit for
With everything falling apart in her life, miles represented the last piece of happiness and normalcy in Gwen's life
Facts and she made all the wrong chooses trying to keep him safe but it didn’t work she even kept things as friends even though she wanted more cause she taught it was for his own good
I see the reconciliation as a tear filled plea from Gwen to Miles to come back to her. An explanation of everything that led to her choices with the Spider Society and to let him know that when she came to see him that she never wanted to leave and that that time with him meant more to her than she knew how to tell him at the time and that she already fell for him but thought she couldn't allow herself that happiness.
Furthermore, I see Gwen being the initiator of any kiss that will come. Miles is not going to know what to do with Gwen being so open and i imagine they write her as taking the lead on the romance, since Miles has been letting her come to him the whole time. He's already been on the train and has just been waiting for Gwen to punch her ticket 😂❤️
Seriously how can you hate Gwen ????
Already glad this video is now made.