Hang on you missed a key detail early on in the video, though. There was very good reasoning behind the southern end of the tunnel continuing down to Yeerongpilly. For not significantly more money, it: -allowed express Gold Coast trains to run fast all the way to Boggo Road, saving a couple of minutes for expresses and meaning you separated all stops from express services without having to widen the surface corridor to 4 tracks on a slow alignment -allowed a better angle for the Boggo Road station to interchange with Park Road, again saving time for passengers interchanging and money on the station itself -the third surface track between the Tennyson link and Park Road/Boggo Road could then be given over to freight, as currently there is a curfew on freight during peaks -allowed you run an all-stops service from Salisbury or Beaudesert on the surface alignment so much faster journey times for Beenleigh and southern corridor services -allowed services to terminate and go straight into the stabling at Yeerongpilly without getting in the way during busy peaks
Yes, the reasons for the long tunnel, as well as some other things like the NWTC connection and the freight impacts didn't make it into the final video since it was getting very long. These are all very good points
@@extremedonut7602 hello, the northside Caboolture/Redcliffe don't need any more services. Everyone who lives near those lines prefer to drive regardless. A lot more jobs in those areas also require cars.
What an eye opener. As a fairly new Brisbanite I hadn’t looked deeply into the problems with CRR, and blindly followed all the soft pieces. Well done. And thanks to David Bannister.
As a road signal engineer and traffic systems and networks engineer, I found this interesting. For sure, it's all about capacity and choke points. People shift their travel habits in response to what is provided. Ultimately traffic jams are mostly ameliorated by increase in capacity at junctons. As soon as you design a 'perfect set of traffic lights' [for a given capacity], you can eek out improvements in efficiency thereafter, with the electronics; but as soon as you achieve a 'perfect result', then everybody wants to go that route, thus defeating your goal, a sort of negative feedback. I wouldn't despair about the new CCR, but I'm sure you'll examine its operation after it is constructed and opened. If problems occur, then further projects will be required. It's a constant evolution. If a lot of people use the new City Centre station [Albert], then pressure is relieved at Roma St. for the capacity on other lines, I daresay.
Some feedback. Firstly, the point of Cross River Rail was to provide another rail crossing of the Brisbane River with the Merivale Bridge set to reach capacity. That's the pinch point, not Northgate. And it has achieved that goal - doubling the capacity of the Beenleigh-Gold Coast line to cross the river. I think there will be some changes to send more Beenleigh-Gold Coast and Caboolture trains though the suburban tunnels. Secondly, I'm sure the man you interviewed is an expert. I would have liked to have known more about his expertise - what's his degree in, what's his speciality, how long has he worked in rail etc. And I would have liked to have been given at least a brief rundown of his solution. Thirdly, I don't think that the need for stations at Wooloongabba, Albert Street and Exhibition can be understated. The first two alone make a new line worthwhile. Brisbane has needed a truly central CBD station since the day Roma St Station was built.
yeh and the northside don't even need any more trains. A lot of the trains on the northside already run relatively empty as everyone there just prefer driving.
Thanks. I've long thought the glaring omission in Brisbane's train network is flyovers, not only where lines diverge but also to facilitate easy cross-platform transfers at key stations. I'm just so used to them in Sydney at Central, Strathfield, Granville and Glenfield.
Interesting video but a key outcome of this project will be the vastly increased amenity provided by the new Albert St and Gabba stations. This alone makes the project worthwhile.
Great video! A little expansion(?) on the point regarding Shorncliffe, at least though. Nundah/Toombul is a major TOD district, with a big emphasis on infill. I would imagine that some growth would be desirable there, and those stations are currently only serviced by the Shorncliffe line at 1/2 hourly frequencies. The Shorncliffe frequency increase wouldn't be for nothing there, and I assume a similar situation for Trouts/future TOD infill, which is crucial if we are to address the issues of car dependence/sprawl in Brisbane. Enjoyed the breakdown!
I totally agree about the Shorncliffe line, and the half-hourly off-peak frequency really could be a lot higher, especially with future development and growth. Especially when thinking about off-peak frequencies, just about every line could do with maybe twice as many trains as there are now, especially if there is proper TOD done around stations, and things like connecting bus-routes and bike paths. Off-peak frequency though is generally not that limited by the infrastructure since its always going to be less than during peak. If the government/QR/translink had the money or the willpower it wouldn't take a huge deal to increase the off-peak frequencies any time. Hopefully the new timetable with CRR will have improved frequencies on places like the Shorncliffe, Beenleigh and Springfield lines. The increased capacity from CRR is mostly about peak-frequencies, since this is when there is the most congestion. The Shorncliffe line is experiencing growth, but not as much compared to the lines from the north are currently, so it makes the most sense to focus on these lines in increasing capacity at the moment. But unfortunately with the current CRR as we have it this isn't the case. Thanks for your comment!
This was such a we'll put together video. I've been watching a lot about cross river rail over the last few years, but this is the first time I've actually seen its impact explained in layman's terms. Excited to see where this docuseries goes next (maybe WSI?)
Very well done video! Definitely looking forward to the next one. If you keep going and keep up this level of quality, you'll definitely land a hit with this. 👍
I personally think you missed a lot of things here. Along with CRR, other projects such as the Kuraby to Beenleigh corodor upgrage to 4 tracks. And the Beerburrum to Nambour upgrade. These projects are future proofing those parts of the network. Personally I think after these projects are done we should will be building the Beaudesert and sunshine coast lines, and this will make bottle necks from park road to Kuraby and a Albion to Petrie. Governments need to have a reason to build these projects, creating problems to solve later is perhaps part of the way to get projects funded.
The video is great and I just have to say thank you youtube for putting this video about a transport project on the other side of the planet on my homepage, very good work.
VERY well done! Passed on to various people, right away! On a related s subject, the so called Brisbane METRO is even worse that the CRR in that the money spent will only gain a simple double articulated BUS, when at the very least, a guided bus system would have permitted FIVE CAR vehicles, giving a far better outcome than the over hyped double articulated buses! How about a video on that topic?
This was such a well made video and very eye-opening. What a waste to spend all that money for such minimal gain. Keep it up, big things in store for this channel!
It’s disappointing, though it’s possible the Queensland government is playing some kind of 4D chess and planning to route a bunch of the trains coming from the North via the Ferny Grove line if that North-West transport corridor is ever developed (and they apparently have some business case they’re working on there). If that was indeed the case then the main issue is that this government seems to love keeping secrets about their long-term plans and keep everyone in the dark.
This would be a possibility in the future with the loads of capacity that is going to be left for the Ferny Grove line, though a tunnel connecting up to Roma Street would be much faster and was provided for in the 2011 plan for CRR. Either way the government needs to be more upfront about long term plans
Do you agree with this? There was very good reasoning behind the southern end of the tunnel continuing down to Yeerongpilly. For not significantly more money, it: -allowed express Gold Coast trains to run fast all the way to Boggo Road, saving a couple of minutes for expresses and meaning you separated all stops from express services without having to widen the surface corridor to 4 tracks on a slow alignment -allowed a better angle for the Boggo Road station to interchange with Park Road, again saving time for passengers interchanging and money on the station itself -the third surface track between the Tennyson link and Park Road/Boggo Road could then be given over to freight, as currently there is a curfew on freight during peaks -allowed you run an all-stops service from Salisbury or Beaudesert on the surface alignment so much faster journey times for Beenleigh and southern corridor services -allowed services to terminate and go straight into the stabling at Yeerongpilly without getting in the way during busy peaks
@@aimee916 I haven’t looked too deeply into the different proposals. As you’re aware in this country, rail investment is always a dollar short and a day late.
@@coasterblocks3420 Yes but there is also the other side of the equation - not doing projects properly leads to more operational and ongoing infrastructure costs and poorer outcomes. We don't build 2 lane highways that merge into single lane arterials for a good reason, but we continue to do it all over the rail network and wonder why services are slow, unreliable, often massively delayed and expensive to run.
@@aimee916 oh god, I totally agree. A developer plans a new housing estate and the government will build a veritable freeway to it before a single house is built and their reasoning is “people will be living there in the future and there will be demand” but then they invert that reasoning for public transit and don’t build it from the outset because “people aren’t living there yet so there’s no demand”. Think of all that money wasted on widening the pacific highway which only increases traffic because people have no choice but to drive. If that money had been spent massively expanding heavy and light rail on the Gold Coast, there would have been no need to build those extra lanes. Timid governments which lack coherent vision and enraptured by urban sprawl. Urgh. That’s why I think the 2032 Olympics will be an absolute disaster. It’s 9 years away, a nineteenth century rail alignment to the Sunshine Coast hinterland, nothing to the coast itself, no rail to Coolangatta, a wobbly torturous rail line to Toowoomba and nothing but fairly nebulous plans to fix it. How the hell do they think people will get to these sports venues - drive?
after cross river rail, there are plans to convert the Cleveland to Ferny Grove line, which is being completely segregated as part of CRR to use just Automated trains
A bit confused straight up as from Darra to Roma Street Ipswich and Springfield use different tracks. It is 4 tracked, just look out the window. Then they split from Darra.
There are 4 tracks but they only use 2 normally, and a third for express trains during the peaks. Oxley station only has 3 platforms so they would have to do some minor rearrangements to the junctions if they want to use all 4. The best layout is to use the outer tracks as the Ipswich express tracks, and the two inside tracks as the Springfield tracks. There are enough junctions at Milton to allow this to happen, and only some minor new junctions would be needed at Darra to allow the trains to get to where they need to go without conflict. This way Oxley station wouldn't need a fourth platform.
I believe a significant portion of the 4th track between Corrinda and Darra is also not electrified but I could be wrong. The 4th track really is just to keep freight moving
The video would have benefitted from David Bannister summarising how to fix CRR capacity from his report rather than how to become a rail activist. A QR code to have your audience read a very lengthy report seems to have missed the boat. Maybe a part two??? Otherwise very good information about the problems with the project.
It won’t be perfect but the rail system is old anything that is got to be an improvement..or have I got it wrong and it’s just a stuff up by what ever government who is power.
@@mynameisweevil well to tell you something, I could start a company and find a way to get that rail line all the way to Maroochydore from Caloundra, but that would be in exhange for the operating rights of that segment.
Hang on you missed a key detail early on in the video, though. There was very good reasoning behind the southern end of the tunnel continuing down to Yeerongpilly. For not significantly more money, it:
-allowed express Gold Coast trains to run fast all the way to Boggo Road, saving a couple of minutes for expresses and meaning you separated all stops from express services without having to widen the surface corridor to 4 tracks on a slow alignment
-allowed a better angle for the Boggo Road station to interchange with Park Road, again saving time for passengers interchanging and money on the station itself
-the third surface track between the Tennyson link and Park Road/Boggo Road could then be given over to freight, as currently there is a curfew on freight during peaks
-allowed you run an all-stops service from Salisbury or Beaudesert on the surface alignment so much faster journey times for Beenleigh and southern corridor services
-allowed services to terminate and go straight into the stabling at Yeerongpilly without getting in the way during busy peaks
Yes, the reasons for the long tunnel, as well as some other things like the NWTC connection and the freight impacts didn't make it into the final video since it was getting very long. These are all very good points
@@extremedonut7602 hello, the northside Caboolture/Redcliffe don't need any more services. Everyone who lives near those lines prefer to drive regardless. A lot more jobs in those areas also require cars.
What an eye opener. As a fairly new Brisbanite I hadn’t looked deeply into the problems with CRR, and blindly followed all the soft pieces. Well done. And thanks to David Bannister.
As a road signal engineer and traffic systems and networks engineer, I found this interesting. For sure, it's all about capacity and choke points. People shift their travel habits in response to what is provided. Ultimately traffic jams are mostly ameliorated by increase in capacity at junctons. As soon as you design a 'perfect set of traffic lights' [for a given capacity], you can eek out improvements in efficiency thereafter, with the electronics; but as soon as you achieve a 'perfect result', then everybody wants to go that route, thus defeating your goal, a sort of negative feedback. I wouldn't despair about the new CCR, but I'm sure you'll examine its operation after it is constructed and opened. If problems occur, then further projects will be required. It's a constant evolution. If a lot of people use the new City Centre station [Albert], then pressure is relieved at Roma St. for the capacity on other lines, I daresay.
Amen 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Some feedback. Firstly, the point of Cross River Rail was to provide another rail crossing of the Brisbane River with the Merivale Bridge set to reach capacity. That's the pinch point, not Northgate. And it has achieved that goal - doubling the capacity of the Beenleigh-Gold Coast line to cross the river. I think there will be some changes to send more Beenleigh-Gold Coast and Caboolture trains though the suburban tunnels. Secondly, I'm sure the man you interviewed is an expert. I would have liked to have known more about his expertise - what's his degree in, what's his speciality, how long has he worked in rail etc. And I would have liked to have been given at least a brief rundown of his solution. Thirdly, I don't think that the need for stations at Wooloongabba, Albert Street and Exhibition can be understated. The first two alone make a new line worthwhile. Brisbane has needed a truly central CBD station since the day Roma St Station was built.
yeh and the northside don't even need any more trains. A lot of the trains on the northside already run relatively empty as everyone there just prefer driving.
Excellent choice of music
great video.
Thanks. I've long thought the glaring omission in Brisbane's train network is flyovers, not only where lines diverge but also to facilitate easy cross-platform transfers at key stations.
I'm just so used to them in Sydney at Central, Strathfield, Granville and Glenfield.
Interesting video but a key outcome of this project will be the vastly increased amenity provided by the new Albert St and Gabba stations. This alone makes the project worthwhile.
This is too good 👌🏽👌🏽👌🏽👌🏽👌🏽
We need more 🙏🙏🙏🙏
Very interesting analysis. Thanks for producing this. 👌
Great video! A little expansion(?) on the point regarding Shorncliffe, at least though. Nundah/Toombul is a major TOD district, with a big emphasis on infill. I would imagine that some growth would be desirable there, and those stations are currently only serviced by the Shorncliffe line at 1/2 hourly frequencies. The Shorncliffe frequency increase wouldn't be for nothing there, and I assume a similar situation for Trouts/future TOD infill, which is crucial if we are to address the issues of car dependence/sprawl in Brisbane.
Enjoyed the breakdown!
I totally agree about the Shorncliffe line, and the half-hourly off-peak frequency really could be a lot higher, especially with future development and growth. Especially when thinking about off-peak frequencies, just about every line could do with maybe twice as many trains as there are now, especially if there is proper TOD done around stations, and things like connecting bus-routes and bike paths. Off-peak frequency though is generally not that limited by the infrastructure since its always going to be less than during peak. If the government/QR/translink had the money or the willpower it wouldn't take a huge deal to increase the off-peak frequencies any time. Hopefully the new timetable with CRR will have improved frequencies on places like the Shorncliffe, Beenleigh and Springfield lines.
The increased capacity from CRR is mostly about peak-frequencies, since this is when there is the most congestion. The Shorncliffe line is experiencing growth, but not as much compared to the lines from the north are currently, so it makes the most sense to focus on these lines in increasing capacity at the moment. But unfortunately with the current CRR as we have it this isn't the case. Thanks for your comment!
The start with a EMU making a NGR sound lol
This was such a we'll put together video. I've been watching a lot about cross river rail over the last few years, but this is the first time I've actually seen its impact explained in layman's terms. Excited to see where this docuseries goes next (maybe WSI?)
Very well done video! Definitely looking forward to the next one. If you keep going and keep up this level of quality, you'll definitely land a hit with this. 👍
I personally think you missed a lot of things here. Along with CRR, other projects such as the Kuraby to Beenleigh corodor upgrage to 4 tracks. And the Beerburrum to Nambour upgrade. These projects are future proofing those parts of the network. Personally I think after these projects are done we should will be building the Beaudesert and sunshine coast lines, and this will make bottle necks from park road to Kuraby and a Albion to Petrie. Governments need to have a reason to build these projects, creating problems to solve later is perhaps part of the way to get projects funded.
Holy fuck another banger
The video is great and I just have to say thank you youtube for putting this video about a transport project on the other side of the planet on my homepage, very good work.
Great video, wonderful explanation of CRR and key points.
VERY well done! Passed on to various people, right away! On a related s subject, the so called Brisbane METRO is even worse that the CRR in that the money spent will only gain a simple double articulated BUS, when at the very least, a guided bus system would have permitted FIVE CAR vehicles, giving a far better outcome than the over hyped double articulated buses! How about a video on that topic?
This was such a well made video and very eye-opening. What a waste to spend all that money for such minimal gain. Keep it up, big things in store for this channel!
you forgot to count that parts of the Cleveland line are single track east of Wynnum
Mate this was an awesome video. Keep them coming.
Good video.
Very well made.
Good stuff
they should get some double sided platforms at bowen hills bruv
It’s disappointing, though it’s possible the Queensland government is playing some kind of 4D chess and planning to route a bunch of the trains coming from the North via the Ferny Grove line if that North-West transport corridor is ever developed (and they apparently have some business case they’re working on there). If that was indeed the case then the main issue is that this government seems to love keeping secrets about their long-term plans and keep everyone in the dark.
This would be a possibility in the future with the loads of capacity that is going to be left for the Ferny Grove line, though a tunnel connecting up to Roma Street would be much faster and was provided for in the 2011 plan for CRR. Either way the government needs to be more upfront about long term plans
I used to work for QR. What was to become known as CRR, was first mooted internally in 1996.
Do you agree with this?
There was very good reasoning behind the southern end of the tunnel continuing down to Yeerongpilly. For not significantly more money, it:
-allowed express Gold Coast trains to run fast all the way to Boggo Road, saving a couple of minutes for expresses and meaning you separated all stops from express services without having to widen the surface corridor to 4 tracks on a slow alignment
-allowed a better angle for the Boggo Road station to interchange with Park Road, again saving time for passengers interchanging and money on the station itself
-the third surface track between the Tennyson link and Park Road/Boggo Road could then be given over to freight, as currently there is a curfew on freight during peaks
-allowed you run an all-stops service from Salisbury or Beaudesert on the surface alignment so much faster journey times for Beenleigh and southern corridor services
-allowed services to terminate and go straight into the stabling at Yeerongpilly without getting in the way during busy peaks
@@aimee916 I haven’t looked too deeply into the different proposals. As you’re aware in this country, rail investment is always a dollar short and a day late.
@@coasterblocks3420 Yes but there is also the other side of the equation - not doing projects properly leads to more operational and ongoing infrastructure costs and poorer outcomes. We don't build 2 lane highways that merge into single lane arterials for a good reason, but we continue to do it all over the rail network and wonder why services are slow, unreliable, often massively delayed and expensive to run.
@@aimee916 oh god, I totally agree. A developer plans a new housing estate and the government will build a veritable freeway to it before a single house is built and their reasoning is “people will be living there in the future and there will be demand” but then they invert that reasoning for public transit and don’t build it from the outset because “people aren’t living there yet so there’s no demand”.
Think of all that money wasted on widening the pacific highway which only increases traffic because people have no choice but to drive. If that money had been spent massively expanding heavy and light rail on the Gold Coast, there would have been no need to build those extra lanes.
Timid governments which lack coherent vision and enraptured by urban sprawl. Urgh.
That’s why I think the 2032 Olympics will be an absolute disaster. It’s 9 years away, a nineteenth century rail alignment to the Sunshine Coast hinterland, nothing to the coast itself, no rail to Coolangatta, a wobbly torturous rail line to Toowoomba and nothing but fairly nebulous plans to fix it. How the hell do they think people will get to these sports venues - drive?
Is there a download link for David Bannister's report?
Oops, didn't wait for the end 🤪
tbf 24 trains an hour is 1 train every 2.5 minutes.
after cross river rail, there are plans to convert the Cleveland to Ferny Grove line, which is being completely segregated as part of CRR to use just Automated trains
A bit confused straight up as from Darra to Roma Street Ipswich and Springfield use different tracks. It is 4 tracked, just look out the window. Then they split from Darra.
There are 4 tracks but they only use 2 normally, and a third for express trains during the peaks. Oxley station only has 3 platforms so they would have to do some minor rearrangements to the junctions if they want to use all 4. The best layout is to use the outer tracks as the Ipswich express tracks, and the two inside tracks as the Springfield tracks. There are enough junctions at Milton to allow this to happen, and only some minor new junctions would be needed at Darra to allow the trains to get to where they need to go without conflict. This way Oxley station wouldn't need a fourth platform.
@@pwhnckexstflajizdryvombqug9042 Wow this was very enlightening. Thank you.
I believe a significant portion of the 4th track between Corrinda and Darra is also not electrified but I could be wrong. The 4th track really is just to keep freight moving
The video would have benefitted from David Bannister summarising how to fix CRR capacity from his report rather than how to become a rail activist. A QR code to have your audience read a very lengthy report seems to have missed the boat. Maybe a part two??? Otherwise very good information about the problems with the project.
It won’t be perfect but the rail system is old anything that is got to be an improvement..or have I got it wrong and it’s just a stuff up by what ever government who is power.
they don't care about northside residents
They should just privatise the 3 different sectors into 3 different private operators, similar to Melbournes split
fuck no
Absloutly terrible idea, always ends up in worse and more expensive service.
@@mynameisweevil well to tell you something, I could start a company and find a way to get that rail line all the way to Maroochydore from Caloundra, but that would be in exhange for the operating rights of that segment.