I had to come here after watching a bunch of Raptor updates. That guy gives me serious anxiety whereas you DA guys seem to know what you're doing, which is soothing!
Thank you guys again for sharing yet another piece of your dream with we the viewers. It is a privilege to follow your progress and I know that there are many of us eagerly awaiting the flight test stage.
Is the fuel line (and pumps) remaining exposed in the cockpit as shown? It gives me some pause the way it appears. It looks like failure of the rudder pedal torque tube (or any other component of the rudder pedal system) could put the pilot-side rudder pedal directly into that exposed, raised aluminum fuel line with considerable force. Similarly, a panicked co-pilot could miss the rudder pedal and put their foot directly into those fuel line fittings. Perhaps a removable carbon fiber raceway to cover and protect the fuel line and pumps could be implemented?
Thanks for watching Scott! Excellent observations and questions! Our final arrangement for the prototype aircraft fuel system will be semi exposed but we are making a few changes in the position of components for production. There is a dual fuel pump module that is a little more compact that we are planning to move to for production that will allow the two pumps to be place on the cold side of the firewall and away from the copilot feet. This eliminates the need for covers. If a builder would like to mimic our arrangement on the prototype we would recommend a cover. The angle of the video doesn't show the true relative clearance between the brake pedals and the fuel lines. The way they are set up, the brake master cylinder acts as a hard stop so the pedals stay clear of the fuel lines. The rudder pedal system is designed with sufficient safety factor to prevent structural failures.
I continue to be impressed with the level of design, thought and engineering going into this airplane. I'm definitely going to be watching this closely, as a possible kit option.
I replaced the pitot/static tubing in a c206 and c182 a couple weeks ago, and this system you got in the darkaero seems way more user friendly. I'm excited for the day when I'll own a darkaero in the future.
Might it be a worthwhile option for builders to have a second pitot/static system, that could feed the secondary AHRS? That way you would have true redundancy without a single point of failure of the one pitot/static port, and you could have an active/backup pitot/static system without having to switch it manually like most small aircraft do now.
For our prototype configuration, we have opted to use a single pitot tube that will run from the wing tip to our dual ADAHRS setup, but a builder could still install a second pitot tube to achieve more redundancy for their mission.
Really looking forward to the finished build. Also, have you guys considered a carbon motor glider build that would meet part 103 restrictions for ultralights? Talking about a Melody Song type build the same as the one built in the czech republic. I think that would be a hit in the US market. I'm looking to buy / build something similar. Kinda like a scaled down U2 replica with dual Moster 185's would be sweet.
Is there any way of charging the battery or getting any form of external power on the aircraft? Might be a good idea to add something. Batteries go flat especially when your are configuring your avionics
You've really thought about the installation with that mountable module... it looks like you are providing the pitot static tubes cut to measure? will you also provide the wiring harnesses for the avionics for the final kit or is that on the builder to do?
Thanks for the comment! We are looking at a couple avionics shops that we'd like to work with to offer a standard pre-made VFR and IFR wiring harness for those that want to simplify this aspect of the build process.
Pascal, thank you for watching and for the question. In general, any of the aluminum present on the aircraft is electrically isolated from the carbon fiber. All the rivets that contact carbon fiber are stainless steel.
As a commercial pilot (helicopter) who helps with maintenance I'd like to say good job. I love your thinking about service & maintenance in the future of the aircraft. I wish more aviation engineers would think about that. There's nothing an A&P likes better then hearing "you can remove it and work on it on the bench".👍👍
Excellent build. Some of the nut plates appeared to only be accessible from inside the panel. Avionics will block access. The cooling air for the batteries, shows an entry point on top but no exit at the bottom. Once the main hull is built and bonded, how do you access that panel inserted from underneath? Looking forward to a first flight. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching and for the questions! The nut plates on the cold side of the firewall are still accessible from the cockpit. The avionics panel lifts up with the canopy. The cooling box still requires additional work before completion. Cutting holes on the bottom side of the cooling box is one of them. The aft avionics panel will still be accessible through the main gear door on the belly of the plane.
I know you boys want this aircraft to be competitively priced, but is there a case to be made that if we price it lower, that the aircraft could -just in volume sales alone- make more owner/operators and still turn a good profit for yourselves? Just a thought, great job.
Thanks for the update; it's exciting to see how much progress you're making! Why have you chosen to use two batteries in parallel (essentially, one battery)? Are two needed to crank a UL520? With the batteries in parallel instead of powering separate buses, how do you deal with a fault on the main bus without losing all electrical power? Is there still an alternate feed path to critical items (ECU, fuel pumps, EFIS, etc.)? If so, what powers it with the main bus, and its batteries, offline? How many alternators will be installed? Thanks!
Thanks for the comment! Each battery (EarthX ETX1200) has the cold crank amps necessary (600A) to run the starter, which will draw approximately 140A on startup. The main reason for having such energy dense (24.8Ah) batteries in parallel is for redundancy and to provide a longer runtime in the event of an alternator failure (there is one alternator in our setup). There is a dedicated bus to run the ECUs and fuel pumps in the event of a main bus failure, and our backup ADAHRS + EFIS have their own internal batteries that will run them independently as well in this scenario.
I concede we’re getting into the weeds here, but I can’t picture how you’ll achieve redundancy with two batteries, and presumably the alternator, all paralleled on the same bus. Long alternator-out run time, yes, but redundancy? The independent ADAHRS and EFIS backups make sense, but what’s going to power the dedicated bus for ECUs and fuel pumps when the main bus goes down with both sources of electrical power attached to it? Does the VP-X split the main bus feed in half, alternator on one side and battery on the other, so it can disconnect either one from the bus if needed?
@@FlyingShotsman An independent disconnect could be created for each battery in this configuration as well as an alternator disconnect. The ECUs and fuel pumps run off a bus separate from the VP-X in case of a complete failure of the VP-X, but it should be noted that the VP-X has two independent buses built into it allowing for redundancy here as well. Ultimately the builder can decide the wiring layout for their plane, and we have not finalized the connections for the parallel battery configuration in the prototype.
Brakes and rudders. The rudder pedals drive a split rudder system which functions as both rudder and speed brake. Wheel brakes are engaged at the end of rudder pedal travel.
Tim, thank you for watching and for the question! Long story short, we decided to go to a linear actuator because it was an overall better design solution. It is a simpler, lighter, and an easier solution to install for builders.
Robert thanks for watching! We recently did a video on galvanic corrosion. If you haven't seen it yet, you can watch it here: ua-cam.com/video/yRpMZaU8zKw/v-deo.html
will the two batteries be wired in parallel or will they power separate systems? if the latter will there be a way to connect them in parallel for emergency situations or for more power when starting up. kind of how boats have a way to parallel two batteries for emergency use.
Hie, My name is Nkosi... Not relevant to the video but I just want to ask, can I put a 260hp Aeromomentum Engine on this Airframe?, can the airframe handle that horsepowe and can that eniine fit
Hi Nkosi! Thank you for watching! We designed the DarkAero 1 specifically around the UL Power UL520iS engine. The 260hp Aeromomentum would be too heavy for our airframe and too tall to fit under our cowling.
You guy's are building one helluva bird. I have just one critique for ya. Please consider relocating your fuel pumps and associated pluming that you have mounted in the cockpit. This is just not a safe location in the a/c. Live fuel in the cabin/cockpit is crazy!!! Thank you.
Thanks for the watching! We had a similar comment asking about the fuel pumps so just copying that over here. Our final arrangement for the prototype aircraft fuel system will be semi exposed but we are making a few changes in the position of components for production. There is a dual fuel pump module that is a little more compact that we are planning to move to for production that will allow the two pumps to be placed on the cold side of the firewall and away from the copilot feet. This eliminates the need for covers. If a builder would like to mimic our arrangement on the prototype we would recommend a cover. The angle of the video doesn't show the true relative clearance between the brake pedals and the fuel lines. The way they are set up, the brake master cylinder acts as a hard stop so the pedals stay clear of the fuel lines. The rudder pedal system is designed with sufficient safety factor to prevent structural failures.
@@DarkAeroInc I'm worried about there being high pressure fuel lines in the cabin where people sit. Having low pressure suction lines coming from the tanks is one thing but post pump high pressure engine feed lines in the cabin makes me cringe. Dont most installations mount the pumps on the hot side of the firewall ? Maybe move the batteries into the cabin or behind/under the seats to open up the room for the pumps on the firewall ?
I highly question y'alls battery box. . . 1. Are you venting sealed batteries? Why? 2. Looks as if you need to remove the whole box to do any battery maintenance. Think about ease of maintenance 3. Most of your plane is composite. . . Why not make your box out of composite? It's resistant to corrosion (especially lithium (im guessing your using) and aluminum) and lighter. Plus you can make complex, repeatable shapes with a mold. 4. A simple strap to hold the battery in place with an adjustable draw latch would be a better solution. Allows for no tool battery maintenance/removal, and allows for minor differences in batteries, with the latches being able to draw any slack up.
Hi Jesse, great questions! The battery box is not for venting but rather to provide cool air to the batteries since they are mounted in the engine compartment and they need to be kept below 140F. The battery box does need to be removed if you want to directly access the batteries but it's only six fasteners that need to be removed to do so. We selected the mount location in the engine compartment because the only other option was in the aft portion of the fuselage which is less accessible. We chose to make the battery box from aluminum rather than composite because aluminum is much better at reflecting the radiant heat from the nearby exhaust. The battery box is not a complex shape so it is one of the few components in the airplane that is well suited for sheet metal. The battery fastening method we chose was meant to mechanically mimic the battery boxes that EarthX sells which require no tools and are built to fit their batteries. Builders can simply purchase the EarthX battery boxes rather than making the aluminum straps like we did.
Add a hall current sensor to your alternator output. Lithium batteries will burn your alternator up with excessive charge current. Hope you can control your voltage regulator. Back to the Odyssey pc925L and 680 for me. EarthX BMS burnt up. Too fragile.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Appreciate how you guys are always considering amateur builders and how to simplify installs. Great work.
I had to come here after watching a bunch of Raptor updates. That guy gives me serious anxiety whereas you DA guys seem to know what you're doing, which is soothing!
Thank you guys again for sharing yet another piece of your dream with we the viewers. It is a privilege to follow your progress and I know that there are many of us eagerly awaiting the flight test stage.
Its pure joy to see the progress on your beautiful aeroplane. I love the meticulous detail you put into everything. Keep it up!
Great job, guys. I like the systems approach to the assembly...and the liquid refreshment.
Is the fuel line (and pumps) remaining exposed in the cockpit as shown? It gives me some pause the way it appears. It looks like failure of the rudder pedal torque tube (or any other component of the rudder pedal system) could put the pilot-side rudder pedal directly into that exposed, raised aluminum fuel line with considerable force. Similarly, a panicked co-pilot could miss the rudder pedal and put their foot directly into those fuel line fittings. Perhaps a removable carbon fiber raceway to cover and protect the fuel line and pumps could be implemented?
Good idea. I'm just hoping my size 15s will fit in there.
Thanks for watching Scott! Excellent observations and questions! Our final arrangement for the prototype aircraft fuel system will be semi exposed but we are making a few changes in the position of components for production. There is a dual fuel pump module that is a little more compact that we are planning to move to for production that will allow the two pumps to be place on the cold side of the firewall and away from the copilot feet. This eliminates the need for covers. If a builder would like to mimic our arrangement on the prototype we would recommend a cover. The angle of the video doesn't show the true relative clearance between the brake pedals and the fuel lines. The way they are set up, the brake master cylinder acts as a hard stop so the pedals stay clear of the fuel lines. The rudder pedal system is designed with sufficient safety factor to prevent structural failures.
I continue to be impressed with the level of design, thought and engineering going into this airplane. I'm definitely going to be watching this closely, as a possible kit option.
Wow! Thanks for the pro tip on the crazy pop! Useful! My crazy pop game has leveled up!
I replaced the pitot/static tubing in a c206 and c182 a couple weeks ago, and this system you got in the darkaero seems way more user friendly. I'm excited for the day when I'll own a darkaero in the future.
Might it be a worthwhile option for builders to have a second pitot/static system, that could feed the secondary AHRS? That way you would have true redundancy without a single point of failure of the one pitot/static port, and you could have an active/backup pitot/static system without having to switch it manually like most small aircraft do now.
For our prototype configuration, we have opted to use a single pitot tube that will run from the wing tip to our dual ADAHRS setup, but a builder could still install a second pitot tube to achieve more redundancy for their mission.
Love these progress updates on the systems!
Glad you like them!
Amazing update. Please could you do a video on your gear, loved the brief CAD animation.
Glad you enjoyed! We should have a video coming out about the gear assembly shortly. Stay tuned!
Really looking forward to the finished build. Also, have you guys considered a carbon motor glider build that would meet part 103 restrictions for ultralights? Talking about a Melody Song type build the same as the one built in the czech republic. I think that would be a hit in the US market. I'm looking to buy / build something similar. Kinda like a scaled down U2 replica with dual Moster 185's would be sweet.
Great update!
Thanks for watching Marty!
incredible project a mixture of mechanical chemical and electrical engineering keep going in progress.
Is there any way of charging the battery or getting any form of external power on the aircraft? Might be a good idea to add something. Batteries go flat especially when your are configuring your avionics
The ending was the best!
You've really thought about the installation with that mountable module... it looks like you are providing the pitot static tubes cut to measure? will you also provide the wiring harnesses for the avionics for the final kit or is that on the builder to do?
Thanks for the comment! We are looking at a couple avionics shops that we'd like to work with to offer a standard pre-made VFR and IFR wiring harness for those that want to simplify this aspect of the build process.
Great project! How do you handle galvanic corrosion between the carbon fiber and aluminum components like the piano hinge?
Pascal, thank you for watching and for the question. In general, any of the aluminum present on the aircraft is electrically isolated from the carbon fiber. All the rivets that contact carbon fiber are stainless steel.
Maybe a stupid question, what is done to mitigate heat transfer caused by fixings that pass through the heat shield and fix to the bulkhead.
Making sure batt cover and power cable not making any short circuit,
Fantastic update, thanks guys!
Thanks David!
Where did you source those click bond nut plates at 2:39? I can only find a kit with 4 that are not carbon fiber.
We got ours from ElectricalHub.com: www.electricalhub.com/click-bond-nutplates-2
Thanks for the freezie-pop pro tip! HAHA! :) Great work guys! It's looking really good!
As a commercial pilot (helicopter) who helps with maintenance I'd like to say good job. I love your thinking about service & maintenance in the future of the aircraft. I wish more aviation engineers would think about that. There's nothing an A&P likes better then hearing "you can remove it and work on it on the bench".👍👍
Really liking the spread tow!
Will the titanium give $1000+ more utility to the aircraft?
Excellent build. Some of the nut plates appeared to only be accessible from inside the panel. Avionics will block access.
The cooling air for the batteries, shows an entry point on top but no exit at the bottom.
Once the main hull is built and bonded, how do you access that panel inserted from underneath?
Looking forward to a first flight.
Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching and for the questions! The nut plates on the cold side of the firewall are still accessible from the cockpit. The avionics panel lifts up with the canopy. The cooling box still requires additional work before completion. Cutting holes on the bottom side of the cooling box is one of them. The aft avionics panel will still be accessible through the main gear door on the belly of the plane.
I know you boys want this aircraft to be competitively priced, but is there a case to be made that if we price it lower, that the aircraft could -just in volume sales alone- make more owner/operators and still turn a good profit for yourselves? Just a thought, great job.
For your avionics instillation what is a sork panel? Spelling
How does the nose gear turn when the plane is taxiing on the runway?
hows the breaks going to work?
Thanks for the update; it's exciting to see how much progress you're making! Why have you chosen to use two batteries in parallel (essentially, one battery)? Are two needed to crank a UL520? With the batteries in parallel instead of powering separate buses, how do you deal with a fault on the main bus without losing all electrical power? Is there still an alternate feed path to critical items (ECU, fuel pumps, EFIS, etc.)? If so, what powers it with the main bus, and its batteries, offline? How many alternators will be installed? Thanks!
Thanks for the comment! Each battery (EarthX ETX1200) has the cold crank amps necessary (600A) to run the starter, which will draw approximately 140A on startup. The main reason for having such energy dense (24.8Ah) batteries in parallel is for redundancy and to provide a longer runtime in the event of an alternator failure (there is one alternator in our setup). There is a dedicated bus to run the ECUs and fuel pumps in the event of a main bus failure, and our backup ADAHRS + EFIS have their own internal batteries that will run them independently as well in this scenario.
I concede we’re getting into the weeds here, but I can’t picture how you’ll achieve redundancy with two batteries, and presumably the alternator, all paralleled on the same bus. Long alternator-out run time, yes, but redundancy? The independent ADAHRS and EFIS backups make sense, but what’s going to power the dedicated bus for ECUs and fuel pumps when the main bus goes down with both sources of electrical power attached to it? Does the VP-X split the main bus feed in half, alternator on one side and battery on the other, so it can disconnect either one from the bus if needed?
@@FlyingShotsman An independent disconnect could be created for each battery in this configuration as well as an alternator disconnect. The ECUs and fuel pumps run off a bus separate from the VP-X in case of a complete failure of the VP-X, but it should be noted that the VP-X has two independent buses built into it allowing for redundancy here as well. Ultimately the builder can decide the wiring layout for their plane, and we have not finalized the connections for the parallel battery configuration in the prototype.
I notice just rudder pedals are there no brakes? Or are they brakes and rudders?
Brakes and rudders. The rudder pedals drive a split rudder system which functions as both rudder and speed brake. Wheel brakes are engaged at the end of rudder pedal travel.
Thanks for the video! Could you tell us why you chose to move from the stepper motor to the linear actuator for the nosegear?
Tim, thank you for watching and for the question! Long story short, we decided to go to a linear actuator because it was an overall better design solution. It is a simpler, lighter, and an easier solution to install for builders.
Why two earthX batteries instead of a backup alternator?
Great progress !!!
How are you guys combating galvanic corrosion between the carbon and titanium?
Robert thanks for watching! We recently did a video on galvanic corrosion. If you haven't seen it yet, you can watch it here: ua-cam.com/video/yRpMZaU8zKw/v-deo.html
What's the Specs of the battery?
Well done guys keep it up 🤙🏻
Thank you Mads!!!
will the two batteries be wired in parallel or will they power separate systems? if the latter will there be a way to connect them in parallel for emergency situations or for more power when starting up. kind of how boats have a way to parallel two batteries for emergency use.
For the configuration shown in the video, the batteries will be wired in parallel.
How thick is the titanium sheet?
The titanium used is 0.016 inch thick. FAR23.1191 gives a list of approved firewall metals and thicknesses.
Hie, My name is Nkosi... Not relevant to the video but I just want to ask, can I put a 260hp Aeromomentum Engine on this Airframe?, can the airframe handle that horsepowe and can that eniine fit
*engine
Hi Nkosi! Thank you for watching! We designed the DarkAero 1 specifically around the UL Power UL520iS engine. The 260hp Aeromomentum would be too heavy for our airframe and too tall to fit under our cowling.
@@DarkAeroInc Thank You for The Response
lol i was waiting for the pro tip with chamfers hehee
inspiring journey...
Whats is the model of the batery that you use?
EarthX ETX 1200
@@DarkAeroInc thanks
Titanium don't have Higher performance that stainless steel in high temperatures isn't it?
When I eat potato chips, I do the same thing! I use scissor to open the bag, and trim the jagged edges.
You guy's are building one helluva bird. I have just one critique for ya. Please consider relocating your fuel pumps and associated pluming that you have mounted in the cockpit. This is just not a safe location in the a/c. Live fuel in the cabin/cockpit is crazy!!! Thank you.
Looks very nice with the milled parts although I'd probably do welded tube. I look forward to seeing what the max cruise speed will be.
Not real keen on the fuel pumps in the cabin.
Thanks for the watching! We had a similar comment asking about the fuel pumps so just copying that over here. Our final arrangement for the prototype aircraft fuel system will be semi exposed but we are making a few changes in the position of components for production. There is a dual fuel pump module that is a little more compact that we are planning to move to for production that will allow the two pumps to be placed on the cold side of the firewall and away from the copilot feet. This eliminates the need for covers. If a builder would like to mimic our arrangement on the prototype we would recommend a cover. The angle of the video doesn't show the true relative clearance between the brake pedals and the fuel lines. The way they are set up, the brake master cylinder acts as a hard stop so the pedals stay clear of the fuel lines. The rudder pedal system is designed with sufficient safety factor to prevent structural failures.
@@DarkAeroInc I'm worried about there being high pressure fuel lines in the cabin where people sit. Having low pressure suction lines coming from the tanks is one thing but post pump high pressure engine feed lines in the cabin makes me cringe. Dont most installations mount the pumps on the hot side of the firewall ? Maybe move the batteries into the cabin or behind/under the seats to open up the room for the pumps on the firewall ?
Use 5052 fuel tubing.
I highly question y'alls battery box. . .
1. Are you venting sealed batteries? Why?
2. Looks as if you need to remove the whole box to do any battery maintenance. Think about ease of maintenance
3. Most of your plane is composite. . . Why not make your box out of composite? It's resistant to corrosion (especially lithium (im guessing your using) and aluminum) and lighter. Plus you can make complex, repeatable shapes with a mold.
4. A simple strap to hold the battery in place with an adjustable draw latch would be a better solution. Allows for no tool battery maintenance/removal, and allows for minor differences in batteries, with the latches being able to draw any slack up.
Hi Jesse, great questions! The battery box is not for venting but rather to provide cool air to the batteries since they are mounted in the engine compartment and they need to be kept below 140F. The battery box does need to be removed if you want to directly access the batteries but it's only six fasteners that need to be removed to do so. We selected the mount location in the engine compartment because the only other option was in the aft portion of the fuselage which is less accessible. We chose to make the battery box from aluminum rather than composite because aluminum is much better at reflecting the radiant heat from the nearby exhaust. The battery box is not a complex shape so it is one of the few components in the airplane that is well suited for sheet metal. The battery fastening method we chose was meant to mechanically mimic the battery boxes that EarthX sells which require no tools and are built to fit their batteries. Builders can simply purchase the EarthX battery boxes rather than making the aluminum straps like we did.
ฉันหมายถึงคอนโซลหน้าm
Please do not use earth x they are to expensive and are total junk. I have had nothing but trouble with them.
Add a hall current sensor to your alternator output. Lithium batteries will burn your alternator up with excessive charge current. Hope you can control your voltage regulator. Back to the Odyssey pc925L and 680 for me. EarthX BMS burnt up. Too fragile.
Just remove the entire plate and have a cage with mounting holes made from carbon fiber
แกไปดูดีไซน์พวกงานรถยนต์น่ะเยอะๆการเดินได้เดินตะเข็บการวางอุปกรณ์แต่ฉันต้องการให้อุปกรณ์ที่มีความสำคัญอยู่ในระดับสายตาอย่างเช่นวัดขอบฟ้ามันควรมองเห็นชัดเราไม่ควรที่จะก้มดูอุปกรณ์ที่เราต้องดูบ่อยมันควรอยู่ในระดับสายตามองไปข้างหน้าฉันจะชอบมาก
Reflective thermal fabric is lighter,better on thermal effect, and noise. Lower cost too.
มันก็คงเป็นประมาณนั้นแหละยุคตรงกลางขึ้นมาอีกนิดนึงเพราะอุปกรณ์ที่สำคัญคือนักบิน 2 คนต้องเห็นสิ่งเดียวกันฉันเห็นเครื่องบินรุ่น 1 ข้อแบบดีมากเขาเรียกว่าระบบดูด้วยกันใช้ด้วยกัน
มันควรที่จะมีมุมโค้งตรงกลางยกขึ้นให้อุปกรณ์ที่สำคัญอยู่ในสายตาแบบตรงโค้งหนีฉันยังไม่ชอบเท่าไหร่
นักบินฝึกคันบังคับจะอยู่ตำแหน่งด้านหน้าเขาครูการบินต้องสังเกตเห็นทุกอย่างที่เขาทำสำหรับครูการบินแล้วตำแหน่งคันบังคับควรจะอยู่ด้านข้างลำตัวเขาเพราะเป็นทักษะของเครื่องบินรบที่เขาควรได้รับการฝึกฝนอย่างต่อเนื่อง
ฉันอยากเห็นห้องนักบินจำลองเพื่อท่านจะได้ตัดสินใจ
ฉันว่าน่าจะเล่นเส้นโค้งหมายถึงส่วนกลางm