***Pin this***** 00:00 intro 09:05 Tests 11:41 Errors and Fixing drilling holes 13:00 Step-1 placing pcb 13:20 Step-2 cut the outline for positioning 14:12 Step-3 create top layer track 14:47 Step-4 Apply solder mask Step-5 make the holes( halfway) Step-6 Clear pads Step-7 Apply silk layer 15:50 Step-8 (important) Flip the pcb 17:04 all steps revision Software part 17:49 EasyEda software 21:00 no. Of files required 21:55 FlatCam software 28:41 EzCad-2 software 29:16 Comparison b/w speed power & frequency *Following (live) steps for pcb making 30:45 cutout outline for pcb 32:16 settings for cutting the outline 33:28 Engrave the top layer for tracks 33:59 Settings for engraving top layer for tracks 35:10 applying the solder mask 35:25 removing solder paste 35:48 settings for removing solder paste 36:30 make the drill 36:38 settings for drill 38:35 bottom layer 40:01 settings for tracks 40:12 apply solder mask 40:14 Remove solder paste 40:28 drill again half way 41:01 cut outline board THANKS, it may help😊
Perhaps someone has already mentioned this. It is interesting to check the interelectrode resistance with a megaohmmeter. There is a possibility that the surface is carbonized and has a reduced electrical resistance, which is not good.
In best case scenario it's barely useable for insensitive low voltage devices where leakage current does not matter. There is no if, it's certainly carbonized and with copper vapors deposited on the surface. To make a half-decent PCB, you can use this process to burn off protective paint with a laser, then etch the copper.
Yes, this is the problem with using this technology in this manner. Of course, it's not inherently bad; advancements in this area of PCB manufacturing can only evolve through trial and error. I still use the corrosive method - it's more cost-effective, and with special papers and a laser printer, the results are comparable to those demonstrated in the video. However, I believe that with a perfectly calibrated laser machine setup, the precision could be even greater.
do you prefer laser-toner transfer + etch, or CNC milling? just curious. I am going the CNC route for now, but feel called to push more effort towards etching @@CleberMag
I would REALLY like someone to try: use a photo resist treated board. Develop the entire board as step one. Use the Lazer to only remove the resist where want to remove coper from to remove the resist and NOT the copper, then etch the board using an enchant. I think this method would work well and not have the carbonizing concerns of burning the copper away. Thoughts?
@@wadebrewer7212 "Develop the entire board as step one." should be noted that if it's negative photoresist. Also if you use laser, there is no need to use photoresist, you could just spray paint uncoated board with regular paint.
First of all, thanks to the author for taking time to do this and share. No doubt this process if well executed can be the best way to make DIY PCBs. But the cost of fiber laser is well above the budget of most DIYers. Compared to toner transfer (albeit transfer frustration) and etching that cost next to nothing and with some careful planning one can even produce double sided boards without coughing up $2,000. If fiber laser cost is affordable going forward, then this is the way to go, but now, I stick to ironing and JLCPCB or PCBWAY.
Now this is the way I do tend to do things, want this $30 off the shelf product, spend $2000-3000 (or more) on tools to make it myself! The knowledge gained traversing these paths is invaluable. Thanks for what you do. Fiber laser is next on my list, my Diode and CO2 lasers can only do so much.
Nice Video. 1) for fixing PCBs onto the laser we use a vacuum table with porous air-permeable plastic composite matt between table and pcb. ( mats like METAPOR®CE100 , 3mm to 5mm) a. this prevents the lasertable from getting marked (the mats can be easily changed when they are "worn out") b. the mats equalizes the vacuum, even when there are already holes in the PCB c. uneven pcbs get more flat 2) would be good if the laser focus (high adjustment) would be controllable by the process (stepper motor on z axis) This makes drilling/cutting the thru the full PCB much more easier and equal without the need to flip the pcb Simply do one cut cycle, then adjust the focus a bit deeper, then next cut, then focus a bit deeper and so on until the pcb thickness is done. For PCBs we adjust the high in about 0,03mm steps what gives about 50 cutting to got thru a 1,6mm PCB. And Yes, this takes a bit longer, buts give very good cuts with good cutting geometry and nearly no burned prepreg.
Fascinating. Still, I won't be running out and buying one of these laser engravers any time soon, but it is impressive what you've done with it. I used to make my own PCBs, until I realized that manufactured PCBs were often less than the cost to buy plain copper clad. I used photo resist film on double sided copper clad. I made masks by printing (inkjet) on high resolution digital negative film. Dust, scratches and air bubbles were problematic with the photo resist. Honestly, the best I could consistently achieve was about 0.5mm traces. The most annoying issue was making vias. Basically, I'd drill the holes, run thin wires through the holes and solder to each side of the board ... which is crude and tedious, especially for big boards, but it got the job done. Headers were also annoying, because they essentially needed to be soldered on both sides of the board. I eventually found that sending everything to JLCPCB was far more elegant and probably cheaper anyway, especially if I combined a bunch of boards into a big order. And this is the one downside. It takes a while to accumulate a bunch of projects, place a big order and then wait for delivery. DIY PCBs can be much quicker. However ... stencils from JLCPCB can be really expensive, (mostly because of the extra shipping cost), so I often make my own stencils the same way I made PCBs, except instead of copper clad, I use 0.05mm copper foil, available in rolls from AliExpress. With stencils the imperfections are not nearly so important, so this still works well. (I also tried stainless steel stencils, but copper works better.) I imagine using this laser setup to make stencils could be really easy and quick.
I first made my own pcb's in the early 90's using similar technique you mention above. Up until the use of a Fiber laser with a galvanometer head (instead of mechanical CNC movement), I would say you are spot on. But the speed of a fiber laser could be instrumental to prototyping a pcb layout quickly that you then get a bid on for high volume manufacturing to get your economics of scale (don't underestimate the value of fast prototyping to get a jump on a market or to test the market, before mass producing). Your point at the end is spot on, and is what I'm looking at right now as well. But really a fiber laser adds fast prototyping, small batch, stencil making (solder masking), and don't forget about not needing to silkscreen(I figured the stencils you mentioned were for solder masking).
after watching the entire workflow here, I'm not sure this is quite as fast for prototyping as I first thought. The amount of work in the laser software, may consume more time than its worth. Perhaps, once you establish all of the laser settings and refine your "pcb prototyping" work flow, you could get to a point where it would be fast for you to take your pcb fabrication gerber files (which you normally create anyway to order PCBs) and then have different settings and processes for each of the 10 or so files in the gerber zip :-O The other thing that could add prototype time is having to manually solder each via by hand. Maybe I will just try this once and see how involved it is (compared to either old school or just using a PCB service). At the very least maybe it's a good thing to have in the ole "tool case"
@@Hangs4Fun Yeah, you are right. This here is simply an example of: "Oh ... I have spent $20k+ for my hobbyist tools (too make some bad designs and further: more bad decisions ...), now we need a PROBLEM for my "solution". Otherwise all of my friends are laughing at me. Like my wife does, now". Photoresist processes or screen printing processes are just unbeatable in speed, precision, repeatability, cost and safety.[1] These guys here have no clue what they are doing, as their expertise ends where their fancy tools do: Not even a single thought about how they F up the base material (f.e. Epoxy resin glass fabric composite) of their PCB with that "little" heat treatment. What kind of nut ruins the flame retardant properties of his PCB on purpose? There is a REASON why they are called, f.e. FR4 and they are UL94V-0 certified. It is unbelievable what clowns are on release, these days!:) [1] If you manage to perfect the process. What you can achieve with specialist training, by someone who knows the trade. Also I would invest into a very fast high resolution printing solution and for prototyping quick HCL based etching processes. Everything below $200k is a toy for prototyping with lasers. In other words: Unreliable BS! And the last thing you want when prototyping is a PCB you cannot 100% rely on.
This is a great ad for your sponsor! Who wants to go through that much work when for a few bucks a board house can do it all for you, plus plated-through holes, HASL or ENIG finish, 4- and 6-layer boards, and maybe even assembly services? But it was fun to watch you do it!
Hahaha actually pcbway quality is far beyond these homemade PCBs. I would do this only of I'm a hurry. Otherwise, for only 5 dollars you get the PCBs ready to go ..
There's certainly something to be said for outsourcing. But for those times when you need to keep all IP in-house, or you need exceptionally rapid delivery for prototyping, this is a very viable process. Well documented approach and clear video.
I guess the use case here is not manufacturing but prototyping. With a fiber you can test your design in hours. With PCB way you need to wait 10 days or more.
@@Jody_VE5SAR if the IP is so important, then there is a very good chance that this laser cutting process won't work for the application, carbon/copper particle deposits in the burn paths, so while the presentation and explanation was ok, the overhead (laser cost) to make pcbs that can cause issues is typical toilet youtube content, most likely he got it all for free, and made the video as means for "paying" for it going with photoresist is still best, and if the IP is indeed that important, the extra hassle with exposure, developing and etching will be worth it, because at the end you get good quality board, not this leaky burnt gunk, in fact, when I'm asked to do repairs on boards that have charring, you go out of your way to remove all of it till it is clean GFRP, but here he is introducing it himself...
One thing I didn't see you mention, is that with a fiber laser like this, if your gonna be drilling holes through a material that is thicker than like 0.2mm thick, you need to be using less than half of the available size your lens can do. I.e. if you have a 110mm working area lens, you shouldn't be drilling through a part larger than 55mm in diameter. This is because the closer you get to the edge of the working area of the lens, you will get distortions. Specifically with drill holes through thicker material, the holes at the edge of the working area will be drilled at an obvious angle through the piece, NOT straight down through it. Drilling half way through then flipping the piece to finish the drilling from the other side doesn't really work either because the angle of the holes will be at opposing angles if its flipped. As long as you stay near the center of the lens though it's not a problem. Also, larger area lenses will give you more room to work before hitting the obvious distortions, and a larger area lens has more depth of field where it stays in focus better when working with thicker materials, but you will get less transmitted power into the work piece, so you'll need to crank up the power or lower the speed.
The fumes from this process are gnarly. A mix of fiber glass particles and epoxy resin. You don't want to breath that smoke. Make sure to use excessive ventilation and a respirator. If it were me I would just do it outside.
I personally would always consider a proper fume extractor as part of the purchase when buying a fiber laser. Tricky part with fiber lasers is that the work area around the laser area is not enclosed so fume extraction has to be quite aggressive (thus the addition of a separate personal filter). I just added another laser late last year, the xTool F1, which is a galvanometer based dual laser system (both infrared and blue light). Granted not as much power as a fiber laser, but I may just be able to get that to work (will have to play with the settings). The reason I mention the F1 laser, is that it has a shield that not only protects your eyes, but also creates an almost sealed space to extract fumes from. And the one I bought came with a HEPA external fume extractor that does a really good job of quickly removing fumes, filtering, and what is left gets sent outside my building. Fingers crossed that it has enough power, making my own PCB's is my latest obsession, ;-)
OR, you could just order prototype boards online. You can get a handful of boards for like $10 these days - no laser, no chemicals, no dicking around with settings, etc etc. 30 years ago when prototype PCBs were insanely expensive, making your own made sense. Today? Completely pointless
Sure but when iterating on a final design it can be very time inefficient to wait for parts to arrive in the mail and time is money. I personally prefer to use CNC mill since it is a cleaner process and stinks a lot less @@gorak9000
Ideally soldermask should be baked after screening on, you'll get a better surface finish especially and quality if you are doing transparency exposure. It gives time for surface tension to do it's thing. A toaster or reflow oven works great.
My experience shows that you can produce pcb's with a diode laser, as long as you don't try to erode the cooper itself with the laser. Get a mate black permanent marker (edding and BIC have good solutions), and cover the area to be etched with it. The laser will eliminate the areas that you want to have the copper removed from. You obviously will still need to remove the copper with an etching solution, and the remaining paint can be cleared with alcohol. I haven't got around to try to cut the PCB with it, I'm afraid it may be a huge fail, but overall I'd say that for this purpose, a diode engraving laser is a good option nonetheless. This is just so that people don't think that because their laser isn't a fiber one, that they will be left out in any way. I also only clear the copper around the tracks and pads, Not the entire PCB. I do it this way for two reasons. One is to conserve my Iron Chloride solution, the less copper I dissolve in it the more it will last, and secondly, I can make a ground plane with it, which in theory will be beneficial in avoiding cross-talk for high speed circuits. The resin paste can be applied and the same laser etching technique can be made, exposing the pads that are to receive the solder. This is where it pays off to invest in an adjustable JIG. If you have positioning holes in the PCB, and they are keyed properly, you can remove the pcb and place it again, even flip it to make the other side, and you won't loose alignment. It becomes a seamless process. And here is the best part about the diode laser; no matter how much you try, the copper will reflect the laser, it only get's absorbed by the black marker paint. If you make a mistake, just recover it with the marker again, and it's all good. It's only when you are sure that you have it right that you chemically etch the PCB, and you can do both sides at once. For simple vias I would just run a wire and solder it on both sides. It's not the best professional look, but it's a handy solution, if you are not trying to balance the board's thermals. These days, through hole components are getting less and less common, and to be honest, anything that would be to become a commercial product, you want to avoid them as much as possible. If it's a hobby or POC board, you can also fold the leads and make them as "SMD" solutions. Right now, i only consider THC for mechanical stability purposes, in case they are heavy, like transformers. Aside from that, SMD all the way, no questions asked. Overall, a good video. If anyone finds any flaws in my suggestions, do comment. I'm always up for a revision of my concepts and a chance to learn something else.
suggestion drill the plated holes on bare copper clad board, then electroplate the board to make plated thro holes. Then do all the steps you listed, it doesn't matter is masking gets into the holes.
@@raremc1620through hole components should be soldered on the opposite side of the board to where they are inserted, as long as the copper on the back of the board is clear, it shouldn’t matter if there is solder mask in the holes.
Wow, electroplating? Not really something one does at home. Plus, you need to know about copper thieving, etc. Probably not something most hobbyists can do.
@@kenengel620it's definitely a process that hobbyists use in some areas, like model engineering or watchmaking. It doesn't seem like the most straightforward process, but also not too difficult.
@@kenengel620In a hobby where you are far more likely to have crossed the stage of having a good power supply before you have a $3k+ fiber laser electroplating doesn't seem like that strange of an addition.
I was watching in anticipation that was building up on "what about the vias?" We definitely need an update with vias. 😀 One thing I like about the laser method is that it has much less chemicals than printing out silhouettes and dipping the board in acid etc.
first drilling the vias, then copper plating to make to join them will take considerably more time. on the section with the software he explained that he will solder a small wire through the vias to make them conductive.
A thin metal sheet can have the silkscreen lasered out. Then the sheet can be placed on the pcb and white mask can be spread and cured, same procedure as applying solder paste.
That's really cool. Before prototyping services became so affordable, I would've definitely tried this route. A couple ideas: you could use tinning solution before soldering to protect any exposed copper and give it that silver colour. Also, you could use the laser cutter to make a stencil for the silkscreen layer, and then using your screen/applicator with the stencil to apply the silkscreen layer on the finished board like they used to do on professional PCBs before they switched to direct printing.
this is a fascinating process to watch. I know it's possible to use a small mill to cut the traces and vias out, but the results from that fiber laser are a lot cleaner.
Man, thank you so much for this. I have purchased a ComMarker B6 with your coupon as well. Btw, what am I missing? I cannot find your test files for power speed and frequency mentioned on 28:43 were they meant to be in the description? has anyone else found them or are willing to share?
Great and succinct video! Thank you. Many or your naysayers don't appreciate the value in this method - quick iteration with a short design-test-iterate-... cycle. Quick turn to many DIYers is worth the $$$. Maxwell doesn't have much to say here for the lower frequency spectrum that most PCBs operate in. Plus most employ digital ICs with good noise immunity. Also, if you try to stick to surface mount devices, you'll cut way down on vias to only a handfull as in your example. Avoid requiring vias at thru-hole devices and only require backside soldering in these cases. Instead, if required, place a top-bottom via near the thru-hole component (was suggested earlier). Thought - can you precoat both sides of the raw copperclad material (or buy precoated copperclad?) with colored soldermask then laser etch copper cuts, then etch isolating solder masks then etch for same color silk screen labels. Not as pretty but much quicker and simpler, avoiding separate soldermask and silkscreen steps. Probably for manual soldering only. Potential problem is the relatively small space between copper etch and solder mask etch for a possible solder bridge. But careful soldering might avoid this problem. Thanks again!
Very comprehensive video with all the details and steps. Appreciate the fact that everything is discussed and the video is not a fast video transition show of 5 minutes!
Brilliant! What a great tutorial video! I wonder if you could make “plated through holes” with the laser too somehow? Squeegee some sort of a fine metal powder into the holes, then blast it with the laser? The trick would be to make the hole bigger than needed and then play with the laser parameters, perhaps first to sinter the metal particles into a solid, then blast a new, smaller through hole out of the middle. It seems like you ought to be able to deposit conductive metal on the walls of the holes through some combination of steps. The big problem would be to insure electrical continuity with the top and bottom traces. Hmm, what if… Not thinking in terms of holes for non surface-mount parts, but just vias. Suppose you used some version of the above just to get a metal coating on the hole walls, not for conductivity but just so solder paste would have something to wet to. Then expose the via holes in your solder mask for the SMT parts, so the pads get a covering of solder paste, and the paste also gets down into the holes. Apply paste to the via holes/pads on both sides of the board so there’ll be paste over the via pads in both sides of the board so the solder will wet to both pads at the same time and not just get sucked up out of the holes if wetting inside the holes isn’t as good. Or… I wonder if there might be some simple, single-bath photo-chemical method, that would use the light from the laser to driver metal deposition, making a simpler process and perhaps eliminating the electroplating phase? (Could just the electroless-nickel that’s the first stage of PTH fabrication be used with the idea above of filling holes with solder to result in conductive vias? True PTH is obviously superior for commercial use, but could solder-plugging work well enough for hobbyists?) I dunno, it’d be tricky and maybe impossible, but it’d sure be cool if there was a non-chemical way to make conductive vias with the laser; it’d be nice not to have to resort to rivets or bits of wire to connect traces on the two layers.
This looks like an awesome idea. I have no experience with your fiber laser CNC machine but I noticed that the base has threaded holes in it. Depending on the allowances of the machine, you could create some type of standoff that threads into those holes that securely index the board, allowing repeatability and aligning for the opposite side. It would also improve your issue with holes through the board.
I've been doing this also. I like your paper board locating idea!. One tip is to use FR-1 boards (paper+resin). They are much more forgiving during the copper removal stage as the fiber laser does not burn/char the substrate like it tends to on FR4.
Awesome! this is very useful and arguably revolutionary! This is bound to be under appreciated and you should develop this and some how monetize it. You could become very rich.
Great video ! but, at 28.45, you say that the demo files are in the description but, unless mystaken, i dont see the link to download the files you are using. can you provide the link to the files? thanks
Nice video! You packed a lot of information in this video and I appreciate the effort you put into your clear presentation and fine editing. You got much further than I did with my cheap laser engraver. Your video inspires me to take another attempt to improve my results. Perhaps in a follow up you can show the soldering of via's and components? BTW. as for an SMD solder stencil, I used a piece of thick paper with laser cut holes. This worked remarkably well and the stencil was sufficiently reusable for multiple PCB's. Thank you for sharing!
It's a 20 watt Commarker B4. Same machine I bought for plastics marking, but now I want to make some PCBs. He did a video about the machine here: ua-cam.com/video/DipcpReS19w/v-deo.html
Nice video congrats! In many cases you can move the vias to an area that does not interfere with other components and then the soldering option is perfect. The rivets pose a connectivity problem over time when heat and corrosion sets in, they also have a height that can give issues with components that come over it. But I'm interested in things you try. I design pcs's sometimes and any option to make them myself has my interest.
Great video, the only one I've found yet that tries to do everything with the laser. Great comments also, regarding possible carbon between the tracks. I just bought a CO2 laser and was wondering if I should have gone fiber. I think for PCBs I'll use etch-resist and solder-resist cut out on the CO2 and good old ferric. Once the tracks are etched the CO2 will be able to drill the holes, which is the bit I hate. I tried PCBs on a cheap router, it worked, but wasn't great. For through hole it would be fine, but not SMD. We had a student on work experience and whilst chatting to his tutor, I was told they only used a router at the collage, because the fumes ferric gives off. I'm sure the fibreglass dust is worse. I also use PCB Way, etc, for prototypes that I don't need fast, but sometimes its nice to make a new design and have it built within a day.
I like this video. There is a lot of valuable information in it. Great work for a pcb at home! Just as some already mentioned, you should consider more safety regarding the toxic emitions from the process. Stay safe!
I can't find the files for etching the squares to determine power settings, speed and frequencies used. Is there another tutorial on this? I just got one of these and am willing to experiment, but some more information would save some time. Thanks for an amazing video!
That is a very nice-looking circuit board. It can rival your sponsor. Can you make your own stainless steel solder-paste stencils? You could increase the holes for the rivets and use the paste to hold them during the soldering process. The bow tie shape is brilliant. Couldn't you make it symmetrical so you could flip the board and keep its registration? It might be hard to match the top to the bottom while taping the second cardboard stencil to the table.
Question: You used two different colors of soldermask to get something like a silkscreen layer for text and markings. Couldn't you just add a single layer of soldermask and slighty burn it with the laser, so it only changes color but is not removed? The white soldermask might go darker if you don't evaporate it.
Very good, but scorched PCB is no longer an insulator but a conductor. It is better not to cut through copper completely, but to etch the remaining few microns
Process window will be much larger for 532nm pulse laser (as copper absorb it much more). Unfortunately they are more rare. 355nm less optimal. 1064nm - is quite hard, glad that it worked for you.
Hello, here is a solution that I would like to implement, but in a simpler way. Could you please indicate the power of your machine, as there are models ranging from 20W to 100W. Thank you in advance.
are the solder masks glossy once done? Could it be spin coated on? Looking to maybe use this an option to make a watch dial. Spread the white uv resin on polished brass, apply my resist mask and expose to uv, wash away the uncured portions to reveal a white watch dial with polished brass design on it.
Not to mention that you can do 4+ layers, blind and buried vias, not to mention plating and have them do assembly and don't have to worry about buying parts (particularly small passives) ones-twosie. It's hard for me to see the actual benefit of doing this yourself, which is probably why the video was sponsored by PCBWay a company that this video literally ostensibly competes with.
i really cant thank you enough i thought of this idea in 2020 and couldnt find any video on it. if you would be infront of me i would kiss you. i cant express how happy i am. you have gained a permanent fan. love you >3000
@@mbalkrishna846 i am thinking of buying tts 55 pro which is not fiber laser. it is a optical laser. the process will be different for it you will have to spray paint it(pcb) then remove the paint from traces using laser and then etch the pcb. it will be more work but the laser machine is way cheaper (optical one). I hope he makes a video on that process too.🤞🤞
I know you kind of covered via's around 20:00 but I kind of feel like you are not pointing out how big a deal this can be. Soldering via's by hand (especially on a board with a lot of them), adds a TON of time. One thing I was wondering, if you could laser cut the holes in both sides, but then manually put a solder puddle to bridge the via top and bottom. Then use a CNC with a small drill to drill out the center of the solder puddle. An extra step and another machine, but would maybe make a more professional via?
44:20 thin plating the PCB. If that is pre cutting out the holes, the electroplating in copper to establish the via's, and then continue your process with the holes and via's already in place I think could be a winner.
Thank you for taking the time to make this as a guide, I'm really tempted to get one of those laser machines. Edit: I would like to see if you can electroplate the vías, if the sooth from the hole is conductive maybe you can even save a step.
A suggestion for the double-layer/dual-color solder mask trick: Do two applications of the bottom layer, to make it 2x as thick as the top layer. That would give you more margin for error to burn off the top layer without also penetrating the bottom layer. (In the test coupon you showed, it looked like it was a fine line between totally getting rid of the top layer yet still have a continuous bottom layer.) I thought the idea of combining two colors like this was super-clever!
another option is to fab 2 PCBs, each dual-layer (front and back with vias), but with corresponding connection pads so the top pcb can be soldered to the bottom pcb. the stack up of the two pcbs is like a 4-layer, but very diyable
Nice Video Thank-you ! Do we know the peak and continuous power of the system ? Same Hardware is used for all the Model Y version ? they just play with the fet numbers ?
It's a 20 watt Commarker B4. Same machine I bought for plastics marking, but now I want to make some PCBs. He did a video about the machine here: ua-cam.com/video/DipcpReS19w/v-deo.html
For the vias, you should try electroplating. Do your drills first, then electroplating. Then you circuit patterns & soldermask. I think you could probably electroplate in copper sulphate solution using one side of the board as anode and the other as cathode. Anyway, interesting video, I'll be watching for more. Thanks 👍
I had this problem where I needed a connection to a component both sides, when making my own PCB. I did the solder a wire in the vias. What I did, providing there was room, when designing the PCB, If I needed a component that needed a connection both sides, I would put a via next to the leg of a component. This way the leg of the component needs only soldering one side and the via connects the track to the other side. I Hope you understand. In addition, re: vias. I used quite thick copper wire for the vias, the hole was just big enough for the wire to go through (a snug fit). This way the wire cold be cut just a little long so the it stook out a little both sides. Cutting the wire in its place, deforms the ends to stop it falling out. Then using long nose pliers, I squeezed the the wire on its ends, which squashed the wire to be a solid fit in the hole. I think I would do as you have done if I had that type of laser, but I would still leave the round holes to to the CNC drill machine. Nice Video, Practice makes perfect
Wow! This is AMAZING!!!!! Well, I watched it for the show only, I very much doubt I will have a Fiber Laser in the near future - how much such machine costs??
Very cool what can be done with a fiber laser. I have a CO2 laser which is good for organics and acrylic but useless for metal at my power level (45 watt). If you were doing a small production run. I think I would probably use a cnc router to handle the hole drilling as a last step. So while the fiber is making traces the router could be drilling. Just a thought.
@@razvangrigore322 I did make some PCBs with my laser by coating the board and then raster engraving the paint away to expose the copper for etching. Still an etching process we're trying to get away from.
Am I missing something or how do you deal with plated thru holes and feedthroughs? I mean it's cool to watch, but if you can't solve this problem, I think it's better to just use one of the PCB services available and spend your valuable engineering time elsewhere.
Muchas gracias por explicar tan detalladamente todos los pasos con sus detalles y justificacion de los posibles problemas y como los solucionas. Tienes que haber dedicado mucho tiempo en conseguir ese resultado y preparar el video. Enhorabuena. 🙌👋👋👋👋
what about change the order to cut the placement outline, cut the holes, making the bias with electroplating from a source of copper like a piece of tube or something, continue with the other steps, do you think is posible to make it work?
Great video. This is a game changer for making prototype PCBs. Question #1. Why not apply the solder paste before you do any lasering ? Question #2. Is there a way to laser a circuit and leave a bunch of empty space on the board, populate and test the circuit and then laser more traces and pads on the unused part of the board ? This would allow a designer to build a board in stages. Is there a way to do that ?
When you cut the first outline, could you leave the outline in place and using a thin blade flick the inner part out for cleaning. I’m thinking this could be firmer than card stock for repeatable location. Outline could even be cut to tabs to hold it.
It's a 20 watt Commarker B4. Same machine I bought for plastics marking, but now I want to make some PCBs. He did a video about the machine here: ua-cam.com/video/DipcpReS19w/v-deo.html
Dear the laser chance the resistans of fiber base after cuting! Fibet bicam to conductor betven laers during engraving or cuting. You must cut it ander a vacuum to prevent oxidising.
Fantastic. This is exactly what I want to try soon at work. We have a fibre laser, but it is in an enclosure that can be filled with Argon to avoid burning. Could you provide a link to the UV panel you use for curing the solder resist? (Also, I'm happy to share my progress on my machine at work)
Neat idea, but I must have feedthrus, plated-thru holes, and plated SMT pads (HASL or ENIG). Thanks for mentioning PCBWay; I send most of my boards there.
I applaud your process and quest for knowledge. More than that, thanks for sharing. That said there are a few observations I have. The first of which you touch on, that of safety. In professional shops with such machines there is process air extraction with extensive filtration. In allot of places it would be illegal to simply exhaust to the outside potentially exposing others without filtering first. The vaporized solder mask, copper, and epoxy are all sorts of dangerous. It would take little time to reach toxic levels in a small shop like most contemplating DiY. But extraction and filtration bring with them a host of other issues too. Air replacement and conditioning and associated cost. The second thing is the cost of a decent fibre laser rig capable enough to vaporize copper in a relatively short number of accuratly applied passes. Beam quality and consistency of focus with a scanned laser positioner means that the work area is small. The plus is that the speeds are much higher than an XYZ table though. The third, and this for me is the killer, I can simply spit out a file I drew in CAD to any one many online services. I can get any reasonable number of boards of multiple layers with vias and masks to my door in a few days. The prices are unbelievably cheap and the results are generally production quality. For me this is just not worth it.
Well for a second attempt this was really perfect i'd rate it 90% ,only 10% are for *The small errors *the white layer of solder mask isn't that much visible (the text layer) and btw the vias should be better with a small thin wire overall, Amazing video man you covered all details and instructions , Wasn't bored for those 45mins❤🔥
Very interesting, why not remove more copper when making the vias? You said small particles can fall in the channel and bridge the connections, why not remove a lot more of material, or even all the copper that is not used in the vias?
***Pin this*****
00:00 intro
09:05 Tests
11:41 Errors and Fixing drilling holes
13:00 Step-1 placing pcb
13:20 Step-2 cut the outline for positioning
14:12 Step-3 create top layer track
14:47 Step-4 Apply solder mask
Step-5 make the holes( halfway)
Step-6 Clear pads
Step-7 Apply silk layer
15:50 Step-8 (important) Flip the pcb
17:04 all steps revision
Software part
17:49 EasyEda software
21:00 no. Of files required
21:55 FlatCam software
28:41 EzCad-2 software
29:16 Comparison b/w speed power & frequency
*Following (live) steps for pcb making
30:45 cutout outline for pcb
32:16 settings for cutting the outline
33:28 Engrave the top layer for tracks
33:59 Settings for engraving top layer for tracks
35:10 applying the solder mask
35:25 removing solder paste
35:48 settings for removing solder paste
36:30 make the drill
36:38 settings for drill
38:35 bottom layer
40:01 settings for tracks
40:12 apply solder mask
40:14 Remove solder paste
40:28 drill again half way
41:01 cut outline board
THANKS, it may help😊
Perhaps someone has already mentioned this. It is interesting to check the interelectrode resistance with a megaohmmeter. There is a possibility that the surface is carbonized and has a reduced electrical resistance, which is not good.
In best case scenario it's barely useable for insensitive low voltage devices where leakage current does not matter. There is no if, it's certainly carbonized and with copper vapors deposited on the surface. To make a half-decent PCB, you can use this process to burn off protective paint with a laser, then etch the copper.
Yes, this is the problem with using this technology in this manner. Of course, it's not inherently bad; advancements in this area of PCB manufacturing can only evolve through trial and error. I still use the corrosive method - it's more cost-effective, and with special papers and a laser printer, the results are comparable to those demonstrated in the video. However, I believe that with a perfectly calibrated laser machine setup, the precision could be even greater.
do you prefer laser-toner transfer + etch, or CNC milling? just curious. I am going the CNC route for now, but feel called to push more effort towards etching @@CleberMag
I would REALLY like someone to try: use a photo resist treated board. Develop the entire board as step one. Use the Lazer to only remove the resist where want to remove coper from to remove the resist and NOT the copper, then etch the board using an enchant. I think this method would work well and not have the carbonizing concerns of burning the copper away.
Thoughts?
@@wadebrewer7212 "Develop the entire board as step one." should be noted that if it's negative photoresist. Also if you use laser, there is no need to use photoresist, you could just spray paint uncoated board with regular paint.
First of all, thanks to the author for taking time to do this and share. No doubt this process if well executed can be the best way to make DIY PCBs. But the cost of fiber laser is well above the budget of most DIYers. Compared to toner transfer (albeit transfer frustration) and etching that cost next to nothing and with some careful planning one can even produce double sided boards without coughing up $2,000. If fiber laser cost is affordable going forward, then this is the way to go, but now, I stick to ironing and JLCPCB or PCBWAY.
Now this is the way I do tend to do things, want this $30 off the shelf product, spend $2000-3000 (or more) on tools to make it myself! The knowledge gained traversing these paths is invaluable. Thanks for what you do. Fiber laser is next on my list, my Diode and CO2 lasers can only do so much.
I feel you :)))
i agree, the upfront cost is painful but it allows you to iterate and design new things for pennies
Agreed!
I was tripping over all the Fiber Lasers in my shed and I was woundering what to do with them. 😆
yeah considering most hobbyists make a few boards a year, 30 years later you will break even and even start making profit! @@justinc2633
Nice Video.
1) for fixing PCBs onto the laser we use a vacuum table with porous air-permeable plastic composite matt between table and pcb. ( mats like METAPOR®CE100 , 3mm to 5mm)
a. this prevents the lasertable from getting marked (the mats can be easily changed when they are "worn out")
b. the mats equalizes the vacuum, even when there are already holes in the PCB
c. uneven pcbs get more flat
2) would be good if the laser focus (high adjustment) would be controllable by the process (stepper motor on z axis)
This makes drilling/cutting the thru the full PCB much more easier and equal without the need to flip the pcb
Simply do one cut cycle, then adjust the focus a bit deeper, then next cut, then focus a bit deeper and so on until the pcb thickness is done.
For PCBs we adjust the high in about 0,03mm steps what gives about 50 cutting to got thru a 1,6mm PCB.
And Yes, this takes a bit longer, buts give very good cuts with good cutting geometry and nearly no burned prepreg.
Fascinating. Still, I won't be running out and buying one of these laser engravers any time soon, but it is impressive what you've done with it.
I used to make my own PCBs, until I realized that manufactured PCBs were often less than the cost to buy plain copper clad. I used photo resist film on double sided copper clad. I made masks by printing (inkjet) on high resolution digital negative film. Dust, scratches and air bubbles were problematic with the photo resist. Honestly, the best I could consistently achieve was about 0.5mm traces. The most annoying issue was making vias. Basically, I'd drill the holes, run thin wires through the holes and solder to each side of the board ... which is crude and tedious, especially for big boards, but it got the job done. Headers were also annoying, because they essentially needed to be soldered on both sides of the board. I eventually found that sending everything to JLCPCB was far more elegant and probably cheaper anyway, especially if I combined a bunch of boards into a big order. And this is the one downside. It takes a while to accumulate a bunch of projects, place a big order and then wait for delivery. DIY PCBs can be much quicker.
However ... stencils from JLCPCB can be really expensive, (mostly because of the extra shipping cost), so I often make my own stencils the same way I made PCBs, except instead of copper clad, I use 0.05mm copper foil, available in rolls from AliExpress. With stencils the imperfections are not nearly so important, so this still works well. (I also tried stainless steel stencils, but copper works better.)
I imagine using this laser setup to make stencils could be really easy and quick.
I first made my own pcb's in the early 90's using similar technique you mention above. Up until the use of a Fiber laser with a galvanometer head (instead of mechanical CNC movement), I would say you are spot on. But the speed of a fiber laser could be instrumental to prototyping a pcb layout quickly that you then get a bid on for high volume manufacturing to get your economics of scale (don't underestimate the value of fast prototyping to get a jump on a market or to test the market, before mass producing). Your point at the end is spot on, and is what I'm looking at right now as well. But really a fiber laser adds fast prototyping, small batch, stencil making (solder masking), and don't forget about not needing to silkscreen(I figured the stencils you mentioned were for solder masking).
after watching the entire workflow here, I'm not sure this is quite as fast for prototyping as I first thought. The amount of work in the laser software, may consume more time than its worth. Perhaps, once you establish all of the laser settings and refine your "pcb prototyping" work flow, you could get to a point where it would be fast for you to take your pcb fabrication gerber files (which you normally create anyway to order PCBs) and then have different settings and processes for each of the 10 or so files in the gerber zip :-O The other thing that could add prototype time is having to manually solder each via by hand. Maybe I will just try this once and see how involved it is (compared to either old school or just using a PCB service). At the very least maybe it's a good thing to have in the ole "tool case"
@@Hangs4Fun Yeah, you are right. This here is simply an example of: "Oh ... I have spent $20k+ for my hobbyist tools (too make some bad designs and further: more bad decisions ...), now we need a PROBLEM for my "solution". Otherwise all of my friends are laughing at me. Like my wife does, now".
Photoresist processes or screen printing processes are just unbeatable in speed, precision, repeatability, cost and safety.[1]
These guys here have no clue what they are doing, as their expertise ends where their fancy tools do: Not even a single thought about how they F up the base material (f.e. Epoxy resin glass fabric composite) of their PCB with that "little" heat treatment. What kind of nut ruins the flame retardant properties of his PCB on purpose? There is a REASON why they are called, f.e. FR4 and they are UL94V-0 certified. It is unbelievable what clowns are on release, these days!:)
[1] If you manage to perfect the process. What you can achieve with specialist training, by someone who knows the trade. Also I would invest into a very fast high resolution printing solution and for prototyping quick HCL based etching processes. Everything below $200k is a toy for prototyping with lasers. In other words: Unreliable BS! And the last thing you want when prototyping is a PCB you cannot 100% rely on.
Thanks man. This was one of the best educational videos about laser engraving. It included everything perfectly.
Possibly the best video I have ever watched. All my questions answered. Perfect.
Hero! Half way through the board for holes is a great tip. This video is incredibly detailed. It must have taken days to research. Thanks.
Man, so much details here I'll need to watch again! Incredibly comprehensive.
This is a great ad for your sponsor! Who wants to go through that much work when for a few bucks a board house can do it all for you, plus plated-through holes, HASL or ENIG finish, 4- and 6-layer boards, and maybe even assembly services?
But it was fun to watch you do it!
Hahaha actually pcbway quality is far beyond these homemade PCBs. I would do this only of I'm a hurry. Otherwise, for only 5 dollars you get the PCBs ready to go ..
Not to mention a couple of thousand dollars for a good laser as shown in this video.
There's certainly something to be said for outsourcing. But for those times when you need to keep all IP in-house, or you need exceptionally rapid delivery for prototyping, this is a very viable process. Well documented approach and clear video.
I guess the use case here is not manufacturing but prototyping. With a fiber you can test your design in hours. With PCB way you need to wait 10 days or more.
@@Jody_VE5SAR if the IP is so important, then there is a very good chance that this laser cutting process won't work for the application, carbon/copper particle deposits in the burn paths, so while the presentation and explanation was ok, the overhead (laser cost) to make pcbs that can cause issues is typical toilet youtube content, most likely he got it all for free, and made the video as means for "paying" for it
going with photoresist is still best, and if the IP is indeed that important, the extra hassle with exposure, developing and etching will be worth it, because at the end you get good quality board, not this leaky burnt gunk, in fact, when I'm asked to do repairs on boards that have charring, you go out of your way to remove all of it till it is clean GFRP, but here he is introducing it himself...
One thing I didn't see you mention, is that with a fiber laser like this, if your gonna be drilling holes through a material that is thicker than like 0.2mm thick, you need to be using less than half of the available size your lens can do. I.e. if you have a 110mm working area lens, you shouldn't be drilling through a part larger than 55mm in diameter. This is because the closer you get to the edge of the working area of the lens, you will get distortions. Specifically with drill holes through thicker material, the holes at the edge of the working area will be drilled at an obvious angle through the piece, NOT straight down through it. Drilling half way through then flipping the piece to finish the drilling from the other side doesn't really work either because the angle of the holes will be at opposing angles if its flipped. As long as you stay near the center of the lens though it's not a problem. Also, larger area lenses will give you more room to work before hitting the obvious distortions, and a larger area lens has more depth of field where it stays in focus better when working with thicker materials, but you will get less transmitted power into the work piece, so you'll need to crank up the power or lower the speed.
Yeah, how ìs it working?!
or you know, just make pilot engraving and drill manually
The fumes from this process are gnarly. A mix of fiber glass particles and epoxy resin. You don't want to breath that smoke. Make sure to use excessive ventilation and a respirator. If it were me I would just do it outside.
A proper fume extractor is probably wise.
I personally would always consider a proper fume extractor as part of the purchase when buying a fiber laser. Tricky part with fiber lasers is that the work area around the laser area is not enclosed so fume extraction has to be quite aggressive (thus the addition of a separate personal filter). I just added another laser late last year, the xTool F1, which is a galvanometer based dual laser system (both infrared and blue light). Granted not as much power as a fiber laser, but I may just be able to get that to work (will have to play with the settings). The reason I mention the F1 laser, is that it has a shield that not only protects your eyes, but also creates an almost sealed space to extract fumes from. And the one I bought came with a HEPA external fume extractor that does a really good job of quickly removing fumes, filtering, and what is left gets sent outside my building. Fingers crossed that it has enough power, making my own PCB's is my latest obsession, ;-)
OR, you could just order prototype boards online. You can get a handful of boards for like $10 these days - no laser, no chemicals, no dicking around with settings, etc etc. 30 years ago when prototype PCBs were insanely expensive, making your own made sense. Today? Completely pointless
Sure but when iterating on a final design it can be very time inefficient to wait for parts to arrive in the mail and time is money. I personally prefer to use CNC mill since it is a cleaner process and stinks a lot less @@gorak9000
@@gorak9000no point in cooking you can by everything pre cooked.
This is an incredibly precise and step by step tutorial, wow!
Ideally soldermask should be baked after screening on, you'll get a better surface finish especially and quality if you are doing transparency exposure. It gives time for surface tension to do it's thing. A toaster or reflow oven works great.
My experience shows that you can produce pcb's with a diode laser, as long as you don't try to erode the cooper itself with the laser. Get a mate black permanent marker (edding and BIC have good solutions), and cover the area to be etched with it. The laser will eliminate the areas that you want to have the copper removed from. You obviously will still need to remove the copper with an etching solution, and the remaining paint can be cleared with alcohol. I haven't got around to try to cut the PCB with it, I'm afraid it may be a huge fail, but overall I'd say that for this purpose, a diode engraving laser is a good option nonetheless. This is just so that people don't think that because their laser isn't a fiber one, that they will be left out in any way.
I also only clear the copper around the tracks and pads, Not the entire PCB. I do it this way for two reasons. One is to conserve my Iron Chloride solution, the less copper I dissolve in it the more it will last, and secondly, I can make a ground plane with it, which in theory will be beneficial in avoiding cross-talk for high speed circuits.
The resin paste can be applied and the same laser etching technique can be made, exposing the pads that are to receive the solder. This is where it pays off to invest in an adjustable JIG. If you have positioning holes in the PCB, and they are keyed properly, you can remove the pcb and place it again, even flip it to make the other side, and you won't loose alignment. It becomes a seamless process.
And here is the best part about the diode laser; no matter how much you try, the copper will reflect the laser, it only get's absorbed by the black marker paint. If you make a mistake, just recover it with the marker again, and it's all good. It's only when you are sure that you have it right that you chemically etch the PCB, and you can do both sides at once.
For simple vias I would just run a wire and solder it on both sides. It's not the best professional look, but it's a handy solution, if you are not trying to balance the board's thermals. These days, through hole components are getting less and less common, and to be honest, anything that would be to become a commercial product, you want to avoid them as much as possible. If it's a hobby or POC board, you can also fold the leads and make them as "SMD" solutions. Right now, i only consider THC for mechanical stability purposes, in case they are heavy, like transformers. Aside from that, SMD all the way, no questions asked.
Overall, a good video. If anyone finds any flaws in my suggestions, do comment. I'm always up for a revision of my concepts and a chance to learn something else.
suggestion drill the plated holes on bare copper clad board, then electroplate the board to make plated thro holes. Then do all the steps you listed, it doesn't matter is masking gets into the holes.
Wouldn't it still matter for through hole components? For those you kind of do want to have the holes free of gunk
@@raremc1620through hole components should be soldered on the opposite side of the board to where they are inserted, as long as the copper on the back of the board is clear, it shouldn’t matter if there is solder mask in the holes.
Wow, electroplating? Not really something one does at home. Plus, you need to know about copper thieving, etc. Probably not something most hobbyists can do.
@@kenengel620it's definitely a process that hobbyists use in some areas, like model engineering or watchmaking. It doesn't seem like the most straightforward process, but also not too difficult.
@@kenengel620In a hobby where you are far more likely to have crossed the stage of having a good power supply before you have a $3k+ fiber laser electroplating doesn't seem like that strange of an addition.
I was watching in anticipation that was building up on "what about the vias?"
We definitely need an update with vias. 😀
One thing I like about the laser method is that it has much less chemicals than printing out silhouettes and dipping the board in acid etc.
first drilling the vias, then copper plating to make to join them will take considerably more time. on the section with the software he explained that he will solder a small wire through the vias to make them conductive.
Nice! I've been waiting for this one 😁. Thanks!!
I feel like this video is going to have more views than the other last ones, or at least I hope so.
Nice video)
Wow! Thanks! OCR based pick and place arm for easy PCB assembly is hopefully next!
A thin metal sheet can have the silkscreen lasered out. Then the sheet can be placed on the pcb and white mask can be spread and cured, same procedure as applying solder paste.
Working at a shop that makes PCBs, I always find it interesting how people make homemade boards!
Thank you for this golden skill you expose to us!
That's really cool. Before prototyping services became so affordable, I would've definitely tried this route.
A couple ideas: you could use tinning solution before soldering to protect any exposed copper and give it that silver colour. Also, you could use the laser cutter to make a stencil for the silkscreen layer, and then using your screen/applicator with the stencil to apply the silkscreen layer on the finished board like they used to do on professional PCBs before they switched to direct printing.
I have been researching this technique myself for the past one week. I am so thrilled to see data from your experiments.
Subscribed!
this is a fascinating process to watch. I know it's possible to use a small mill to cut the traces and vias out, but the results from that fiber laser are a lot cleaner.
Man, thank you so much for this. I have purchased a ComMarker B6 with your coupon as well. Btw, what am I missing? I cannot find your test files for power speed and frequency mentioned on 28:43 were they meant to be in the description? has anyone else found them or are willing to share?
i wanna see how thin these traces can get. i wanna be able to making tiny pcbs with tiny smd circuits. good video tho
Great and succinct video! Thank you. Many or your naysayers don't appreciate the value in this method - quick iteration with a short design-test-iterate-... cycle. Quick turn to many DIYers is worth the $$$. Maxwell doesn't have much to say here for the lower frequency spectrum that most PCBs operate in. Plus most employ digital ICs with good noise immunity. Also, if you try to stick to surface mount devices, you'll cut way down on vias to only a handfull as in your example. Avoid requiring vias at thru-hole devices and only require backside soldering in these cases. Instead, if required, place a top-bottom via near the thru-hole component (was suggested earlier). Thought - can you precoat both sides of the raw copperclad material (or buy precoated copperclad?) with colored soldermask then laser etch copper cuts, then etch isolating solder masks then etch for same color silk screen labels. Not as pretty but much quicker and simpler, avoiding separate soldermask and silkscreen steps. Probably for manual soldering only. Potential problem is the relatively small space between copper etch and solder mask etch for a possible solder bridge. But careful soldering might avoid this problem. Thanks again!
Very comprehensive video with all the details and steps. Appreciate the fact that everything is discussed and the video is not a fast video transition show of 5 minutes!
Brilliant! What a great tutorial video!
I wonder if you could make “plated through holes” with the laser too somehow? Squeegee some sort of a fine metal powder into the holes, then blast it with the laser? The trick would be to make the hole bigger than needed and then play with the laser parameters, perhaps first to sinter the metal particles into a solid, then blast a new, smaller through hole out of the middle. It seems like you ought to be able to deposit conductive metal on the walls of the holes through some combination of steps. The big problem would be to insure electrical continuity with the top and bottom traces.
Hmm, what if…
Not thinking in terms of holes for non surface-mount parts, but just vias. Suppose you used some version of the above just to get a metal coating on the hole walls, not for conductivity but just so solder paste would have something to wet to. Then expose the via holes in your solder mask for the SMT parts, so the pads get a covering of solder paste, and the paste also gets down into the holes. Apply paste to the via holes/pads on both sides of the board so there’ll be paste over the via pads in both sides of the board so the solder will wet to both pads at the same time and not just get sucked up out of the holes if wetting inside the holes isn’t as good.
Or… I wonder if there might be some simple, single-bath photo-chemical method, that would use the light from the laser to driver metal deposition, making a simpler process and perhaps eliminating the electroplating phase? (Could just the electroless-nickel that’s the first stage of PTH fabrication be used with the idea above of filling holes with solder to result in conductive vias? True PTH is obviously superior for commercial use, but could solder-plugging work well enough for hobbyists?)
I dunno, it’d be tricky and maybe impossible, but it’d sure be cool if there was a non-chemical way to make conductive vias with the laser; it’d be nice not to have to resort to rivets or bits of wire to connect traces on the two layers.
This looks like an awesome idea. I have no experience with your fiber laser CNC machine but I noticed that the base has threaded holes in it. Depending on the allowances of the machine, you could create some type of standoff that threads into those holes that securely index the board, allowing repeatability and aligning for the opposite side. It would also improve your issue with holes through the board.
I've been doing this also. I like your paper board locating idea!. One tip is to use FR-1 boards (paper+resin). They are much more forgiving during the copper removal stage as the fiber laser does not burn/char the substrate like it tends to on FR4.
Thanks fot the tip. Those cost the same?
Usually cheaper than FR4 @@ELECTRONOOBS
CEM-1 is also typically similar.
Not easy to buy for retail customers i guess?
Plus they look way cooler, like something from the inside of a VCR from the 90's (if you do a single-sided board).
Awesome! this is very useful and arguably revolutionary! This is bound to be under appreciated and you should develop this and some how monetize it. You could become very rich.
i like this video most, it is better than any other video
Great video ! but, at 28.45, you say that the demo files are in the description but, unless mystaken, i dont see the link to download the files you are using. can you provide the link to the files? thanks
Nice video! You packed a lot of information in this video and I appreciate the effort you put into your clear presentation and fine editing.
You got much further than I did with my cheap laser engraver. Your video inspires me to take another attempt to improve my results.
Perhaps in a follow up you can show the soldering of via's and components?
BTW. as for an SMD solder stencil, I used a piece of thick paper with laser cut holes. This worked remarkably well and the stencil was sufficiently reusable for multiple PCB's.
Thank you for sharing!
Ahora podemos utilizar tecnología avanzada en casa que no podíamos hacer hace 30 años. ¡Qué mundo!
Amazing video! Please tell us the model number and power of your ComMarker laser.
It's a 20 watt Commarker B4. Same machine I bought for plastics marking, but now I want to make some PCBs. He did a video about the machine here: ua-cam.com/video/DipcpReS19w/v-deo.html
Can you please tell us the exact model of laser you are using, along with its extensions?
I love your PCB creation videos also the EasyEDA tutorials. Top knotch work my friend. Ty
Nice video congrats! In many cases you can move the vias to an area that does not interfere with other components and then the soldering option is perfect. The rivets pose a connectivity problem over time when heat and corrosion sets in, they also have a height that can give issues with components that come over it. But I'm interested in things you try. I design pcs's sometimes and any option to make them myself has my interest.
Very accurate. No etching solution. Direct pcb on lasers! For professional work this is good.
Great video, the only one I've found yet that tries to do everything with the laser. Great comments also, regarding possible carbon between the tracks. I just bought a CO2 laser and was wondering if I should have gone fiber. I think for PCBs I'll use etch-resist and solder-resist cut out on the CO2 and good old ferric. Once the tracks are etched the CO2 will be able to drill the holes, which is the bit I hate.
I tried PCBs on a cheap router, it worked, but wasn't great. For through hole it would be fine, but not SMD. We had a student on work experience and whilst chatting to his tutor, I was told they only used a router at the collage, because the fumes ferric gives off. I'm sure the fibreglass dust is worse.
I also use PCB Way, etc, for prototypes that I don't need fast, but sometimes its nice to make a new design and have it built within a day.
I like this video. There is a lot of valuable information in it. Great work for a pcb at home! Just as some already mentioned, you should consider more safety regarding the toxic emitions from the process. Stay safe!
I can't find the files for etching the squares to determine power settings, speed and frequencies used. Is there another tutorial on this? I just got one of these and am willing to experiment, but some more information would save some time. Thanks for an amazing video!
Those are from this guy: ua-cam.com/video/gAhNCu6hHME/v-deo.htmlsi=40iFl6cKrrCFDfNH
Perfect! I found them!
That is a very nice-looking circuit board. It can rival your sponsor.
Can you make your own stainless steel solder-paste stencils? You could increase the holes for the rivets and use the paste to hold them during the soldering process.
The bow tie shape is brilliant. Couldn't you make it symmetrical so you could flip the board and keep its registration?
It might be hard to match the top to the bottom while taping the second cardboard stencil to the table.
Great tutorial.
Looks like you put a ton of work in trying to figure all this out.
Thanks for sharing.
Question: You used two different colors of soldermask to get something like a silkscreen layer for text and markings. Couldn't you just add a single layer of soldermask and slighty burn it with the laser, so it only changes color but is not removed? The white soldermask might go darker if you don't evaporate it.
I was thinking if you could use a fibre laser using your resin printer method. Thanks for testing this out and teaching us how to do this.
Very good, but scorched PCB is no longer an insulator but a conductor. It is better not to cut through copper completely, but to etch the remaining few microns
Process window will be much larger for 532nm pulse laser (as copper absorb it much more). Unfortunately they are more rare. 355nm less optimal. 1064nm - is quite hard, glad that it worked for you.
Hello, here is a solution that I would like to implement, but in a simpler way. Could you please indicate the power of your machine, as there are models ranging from 20W to 100W. Thank you in advance.
Great video! Looks a bit complicared to me. But good job on doing that, its the best home made pcb i have ever seen!
are the solder masks glossy once done? Could it be spin coated on? Looking to maybe use this an option to make a watch dial. Spread the white uv resin on polished brass, apply my resist mask and expose to uv, wash away the uncured portions to reveal a white watch dial with polished brass design on it.
you could make two diagonal holes to hold it in place and 3d print a jig that gets bolted into the laser table to always hold it in place.
The cost of all this equipment, along with the time taken mesing about, whilst educational, buys a LOT of perfect PCB's from the likes of PCBWay.
Not to mention that you can do 4+ layers, blind and buried vias, not to mention plating and have them do assembly and don't have to worry about buying parts (particularly small passives) ones-twosie. It's hard for me to see the actual benefit of doing this yourself, which is probably why the video was sponsored by PCBWay a company that this video literally ostensibly competes with.
i really cant thank you enough i thought of this idea in 2020 and couldnt find any video on it. if you would be infront of me i would kiss you. i cant express how happy i am. you have gained a permanent fan. love you >3000
Hello Aditya
Which machine is it?
@@mbalkrishna846 it is comMarker b4. He (electronoobs) made a video on it a month before.
@@mbalkrishna846 i am thinking of buying tts 55 pro which is not fiber laser. it is a optical laser. the process will be different for it you will have to spray paint it(pcb) then remove the paint from traces using laser and then etch the pcb. it will be more work but the laser machine is way cheaper (optical one). I hope he makes a video on that process too.🤞🤞
@@mbalkrishna846 ComMarker b4 is the laser machine name.
This gave me an idea on how to spend some of the company's budget 😃
Nicely done!
Great video. Maybe post links to the components you use such as the rivots and solder mask for example
I know you kind of covered via's around 20:00 but I kind of feel like you are not pointing out how big a deal this can be. Soldering via's by hand (especially on a board with a lot of them), adds a TON of time. One thing I was wondering, if you could laser cut the holes in both sides, but then manually put a solder puddle to bridge the via top and bottom. Then use a CNC with a small drill to drill out the center of the solder puddle. An extra step and another machine, but would maybe make a more professional via?
43:00 and I'm not a fan of rivets for via's (just a personal preference)
44:20 thin plating the PCB. If that is pre cutting out the holes, the electroplating in copper to establish the via's, and then continue your process with the holes and via's already in place I think could be a winner.
Great ingenuity and craftsmanship!
Thank you for taking the time to make this as a guide, I'm really tempted to get one of those laser machines.
Edit: I would like to see if you can electroplate the vías, if the sooth from the hole is conductive maybe you can even save a step.
A suggestion for the double-layer/dual-color solder mask trick: Do two applications of the bottom layer, to make it 2x as thick as the top layer. That would give you more margin for error to burn off the top layer without also penetrating the bottom layer.
(In the test coupon you showed, it looked like it was a fine line between totally getting rid of the top layer yet still have a continuous bottom layer.)
I thought the idea of combining two colors like this was super-clever!
another option is to fab 2 PCBs, each dual-layer (front and back with vias), but with corresponding connection pads so the top pcb can be soldered to the bottom pcb. the stack up of the two pcbs is like a 4-layer, but very diyable
Nice Video Thank-you !
Do we know the peak and continuous power of the system ? Same Hardware is used for all the Model Y version ? they just play with the fet numbers ?
thank you for all the info but i have one question
can i make pcb using 80 w laser my laser is ( "laser tree LT-80W-AA-PRO(12v)" ) ?
PCBWay is sponsoring this video, now... let me show you a way to make PCBs without them. lol
Awesome work here. What is the make and model of your fiber laser? How many watts?
It's a 20 watt Commarker B4. Same machine I bought for plastics marking, but now I want to make some PCBs. He did a video about the machine here: ua-cam.com/video/DipcpReS19w/v-deo.html
Nice long job🤝.
Good experience ❤.
Precision explanation 👀.
For the vias, you should try electroplating. Do your drills first, then electroplating. Then you circuit patterns & soldermask. I think you could probably electroplate in copper sulphate solution using one side of the board as anode and the other as cathode.
Anyway, interesting video, I'll be watching for more.
Thanks 👍
Oh wow !!! fantastic work !!!!, thanks for sharing !
I had this problem where I needed a connection to a component both sides, when making my own PCB. I did the solder a wire in the vias.
What I did, providing there was room, when designing the PCB, If I needed a component that needed a connection both sides, I would put a via next to the leg of a component.
This way the leg of the component needs only soldering one side and the via connects the track to the other side.
I Hope you understand.
In addition, re: vias.
I used quite thick copper wire for the vias, the hole was just big enough for the wire to go through (a snug fit). This way the wire cold be cut just a little long so the it stook out a little both sides.
Cutting the wire in its place, deforms the ends to stop it falling out.
Then using long nose pliers, I squeezed the the wire on its ends, which squashed the wire to be a solid fit in the hole.
I think I would do as you have done if I had that type of laser, but I would still leave the round holes to to the CNC drill machine.
Nice Video, Practice makes perfect
Wow! This is AMAZING!!!!! Well, I watched it for the show only, I very much doubt I will have a Fiber Laser in the near future - how much such machine costs??
This one is around 2k
Very cool what can be done with a fiber laser. I have a CO2 laser which is good for organics and acrylic but useless for metal at my power level (45 watt).
If you were doing a small production run. I think I would probably use a cnc router to handle the hole drilling as a last step. So while the fiber is making traces the router could be drilling. Just a thought.
So no chance with CO2 laser? I have laserblock 😢
@@razvangrigore322 I did make some PCBs with my laser by coating the board and then raster engraving the paint away to expose the copper for etching. Still an etching process we're trying to get away from.
Great, thank you!…but you did not mention which is the laser rated power /specs…..can you do it please?
Ever since your video of using a UV MSLA Printer to make PCB, I've been waiting for an update. I was thinking 4K or 8K printer, but this is great!
Am I missing something or how do you deal with plated thru holes and feedthroughs? I mean it's cool to watch, but if you can't solve this problem, I think it's better to just use one of the PCB services available and spend your valuable engineering time elsewhere.
Muchas gracias por explicar tan detalladamente todos los pasos con sus detalles y justificacion de los posibles problemas y como los solucionas. Tienes que haber dedicado mucho tiempo en conseguir ese resultado y preparar el video. Enhorabuena. 🙌👋👋👋👋
what about change the order to cut the placement outline, cut the holes, making the bias with electroplating from a source of copper like a piece of tube or something, continue with the other steps, do you think is posible to make it work?
Great video. This is a game changer for making prototype PCBs.
Question #1. Why not apply the solder paste before you do any lasering ?
Question #2. Is there a way to laser a circuit and leave a bunch of empty space on the board, populate and test the circuit and then laser more traces and pads on the unused part of the board ? This would allow a designer to build a board in stages. Is there a way to do that ?
When you cut the first outline, could you leave the outline in place and using a thin blade flick the inner part out for cleaning. I’m thinking this could be firmer than card stock for repeatable location. Outline could even be cut to tabs to hold it.
Jlcopcb & pcbway won't be happy with this video 💸💸💸💸💸
What’s the wattage of the laser
It's a 20 watt Commarker B4. Same machine I bought for plastics marking, but now I want to make some PCBs. He did a video about the machine here: ua-cam.com/video/DipcpReS19w/v-deo.html
Really nice work and tutorial! 👌
Dear the laser chance the resistans of fiber base after cuting! Fibet bicam to conductor betven laers during engraving or cuting. You must cut it ander a vacuum to prevent oxidising.
Your auto-correct has made this into non-sense 😊
Fantastic. This is exactly what I want to try soon at work. We have a fibre laser, but it is in an enclosure that can be filled with Argon to avoid burning. Could you provide a link to the UV panel you use for curing the solder resist? (Also, I'm happy to share my progress on my machine at work)
Neat idea, but I must have feedthrus, plated-thru holes, and plated SMT pads (HASL or ENIG). Thanks for mentioning PCBWay; I send most of my boards there.
Nice video. keep up the good work!
I applaud your process and quest for knowledge. More than that, thanks for sharing. That said there are a few observations I have. The first of which you touch on, that of safety. In professional shops with such machines there is process air extraction with extensive filtration. In allot of places it would be illegal to simply exhaust to the outside potentially exposing others without filtering first. The vaporized solder mask, copper, and epoxy are all sorts of dangerous. It would take little time to reach toxic levels in a small shop like most contemplating DiY. But extraction and filtration bring with them a host of other issues too. Air replacement and conditioning and associated cost. The second thing is the cost of a decent fibre laser rig capable enough to vaporize copper in a relatively short number of accuratly applied passes. Beam quality and consistency of focus with a scanned laser positioner means that the work area is small. The plus is that the speeds are much higher than an XYZ table though. The third, and this for me is the killer, I can simply spit out a file I drew in CAD to any one many online services. I can get any reasonable number of boards of multiple layers with vias and masks to my door in a few days. The prices are unbelievably cheap and the results are generally production quality. For me this is just not worth it.
Somehow I missed how the board is registered when it is flipped over. Seems like a lot of fiddling to try to get it exactly aligned with the laser.
What fiber laser do you use? What is its power?
it seems to be a 20W commarker b4, seeing one of his previous video.
@@jeanyvespochez thanks
Well for a second attempt this was really perfect i'd rate it 90% ,only 10% are for
*The small errors
*the white layer of solder mask isn't that much visible (the text layer)
and btw the vias should be better with a small thin wire
overall, Amazing video man you covered all details and instructions , Wasn't bored for those 45mins❤🔥
Very interesting, why not remove more copper when making the vias? You said small particles can fall in the channel and bridge the connections, why not remove a lot more of material, or even all the copper that is not used in the vias?
Hi,
Your are amazing, very informative,this method is preferred for single layer PCB, what is the cost of your engraver and it's specification ?
Have you a link to the fibre lazer
JLCPCB makes custom PCBs, five to $2. And that incluse solder mach and plated though holes. The laser can't do plated holes.
And when China decides to cut off the supply line? Where is your beloved JLCPCB then? 😂 this isn't a video about cost.
Can the engraver be used to selectively harden the solder mask and then a solvent wash to remive the uncured mask?
Very nice tutorial, thank you for your comprensive explanation!!!!
Love the deep dive