Meliodas at the end of series was such a problem in his base form that he was rupturing the world just by existing and has more hax/durability neg. he sadly wrecks Asta no matter how many time's he think's he's going to say "now it's time to surpass my limits"
If you actually paid attention to what they said in the chapter that was going to happen gradually do natural disasters and that was because there was 2 demon King's not because of just meliodas
I have to disagree with the physical aspect of this fight for sure... Asta is physically strong going against Lucifer but there is no way he's stronger than meliodas you lost me at that.. just all the stuff that Meliodas has done physically they're not in the same league for the most part...
@@enzoleon2566 that wasn’t a normal mountain that was a large hill or a very small mountain. That’s been calculated to be only city level level feat. Not only is this feat useless to argue Meliodas being stronger than Asta, but it is nothing compared to Meliodas other feats.
Verse equalization makes sense in matchups like this where the power system is fundamentally identical in both universes. Magic is pretty straight forward. My issue with verse equalization comes in when the they’re two completely different power systems. Quirks are part of the characters’ DNA in MHA, so equalizing something like ki in Dragon Ball to quirks would just be ridiculous to me. Even when people try to equate chakra from Naruto to magic or something. Chakra is a very specific power system in how jutsu utilize and manipulate chakra and in the role that chakra plays in an individual’s ability to function normally or even live.
this is slightly off topic, but... I would say that due to descriptions if you did a Verse equalization between Dragon Ball, Bleach and Naruto Reiatsu is spirit energy Ki is physical/life energy and Chackra would be quite literally a mixture of both(i remember it being described as a mix of physical and spiritual energies) which is funny because afaik Dragon Ball > Bleach > Naruto when it comes to powerscale
@@sandeeprajshrestha5057 i mean, you could make a REALLY big stretch and say that spiritual power is approximated to magic due to how spirits work in Black Clover A similar stretch could be done about Chackra, since it is spiritual energy and physical energy combined, and those individual energies would exist in BC if you make the previous stretch Now, Haki... that stretchs too far for me, im no rubberman, maybe if i go very far the Haki would be slightly similar to ki?
Im gonna be typing this all out as im watching the vid 1. Darkness is a biological aspect of the demons, yes you can say its magic but its a part of their biology which is why they can use the "magic" even tho they have zero magic energy inside them, thats why you never see Merlin just absolute cancel a demons darkness, and Zeldris who was in possession of "God" couldnt nullify Meliodas's darkness either. 2. Full Counter can also work on natural lightning and non magical things, so its not just magic that it can work on. 3. Curses also are treated as a higher form of power not just purely magic, and they can regenerate as long as the Demon King is alive. Which would make this kinda weird since the DK himself isnt part of the vs battle so Asta has no real way of getting rid of the Commandments for good. 4. For speed you could go further saying Gowthers Bow and Arrow are confirmed to be light as well and Tiny Diane which is many times weaker than even normal base diane from the start of the series was capable of reacting to and dodging a multitude of those arrows. That alone was calced at around 4.1X ftl iirc, so you can just start from there. Small Dianes power level is 950 while normal Diane is 3,250 around 3.4 times higher so 4.1x3.4 so you could argue all the base sins would be around 14x ftl. Theres also Oslo who reacted to Maels Light which if we assume is base light speed and we dont upscale it from simply being a much stronger character would still also be like 30x ftl and Oslos not that strong in the verse so you can upscale from him too but you could also just say Oslo is amped cause he's sacrificing his life to save his friends so some mental amp maybe. The highest recorded power level in SDS was Ludociel who had one of 201,000 and this wasnt even his full power keep in mind, so upscaling from Diane he'd be around 865x ftl at least and Ludociel is fodder compared to the EOS Sins. We know that the we know that 1 archangel is at least as strong as 2 commandments as said by Tarmiel and Sariel. So following that we could assume all 10 commandments are worth roughly 5 graces and DK Meli had all 10 commandments which would roughly make him 4325x ftl at least. As we know DK Zel is roughy =< to DK Meli. Regardless Normal Meli can beat up this DK Zel but then DK Zel gets an amp and 2nd stage Zel can beat up Base Mel easily. Once Mel uses DM however its back to him and even the weakest form of DM is is at least a 3x amp so 12975x ftl. Then PDK is capable of blizting DM Meli and Meli goes Assault Modes power level was 142000 so that off of a 60000 base form, which is a bare minimum (going off of power levels) of at least 2-2.5x which should be a low ball considering itd make no sense to be a lower amp than basic DMs and not only that AM Meli seemingly slowly grows in power as he stays in the form meaning its just him getting used to the form again so the multiplier could be higher. So low ball 25950x ftl, Take note that there are multiple lowballs throughout this scaling and it isnt even done with calcs, it has one calc and its just power level/multipliers. The worst part is that power levels in SDS arent even linear to their strength, you dont need a 2x power level to be 2x stronger than someone. When Meliodas fought Ban he arguably got a 3x increase right? But his actual power level only went up by roughly 30% So if we apply that logic to these multipliers then we get Meliodas in AM EOS bare minimum using Meliodas BOS Base to his lowballed EOS base of 1 mil we'd get 146444944842x ftl then we apply the DM amp which is 3x again to 439334834526 and AM again another bare minimum 2x so youd get 878669669052x ftl which is pretty ridiculous and prob not true but is still just using the logic shown in the actual series. Regardless of what way you scale his speed TMF would be 1000s of times higher than both of these levels as you said. Im not even gonna bother to apply the multipliers to his AP. So absolute lowballed to the max highball is 25950xftl to 146444944842xftl 5. "That is if you go by the same logic of Demon Lord created a Solar System" Thats actually fucking hilarious, that is not the "same logic" lmao Twinkling lights and a bright white circles are not enough to automatically claim theyre stars or moons lmao wtf? You could literally just say the "stars" are just random sparks of energy or light sources that dont have to be stars and the "moon" can literally just be a shiny white ball, like you cant even see any real details on it. Do you not actually know how the Star metas in SDS function? The Goddess Realm has a star because Maels power "Sun" literally requires the presence of a star in order to use it and he can use it in the Goddess Realm implying that there is a star in there, and considering the fact the ability itself is LITERALLY called Sun the star is prob an equivalent to the normal worlds Sun. For the Demon Realm we literally see at night that there two moons being lit up, not only do we actually see the moons in detail craters an all which makes it obvious theyre meant to be moons (and theyre not just random white balls in the background) but theyre lit up to which implies the existence of a star in the DR too cause you know thats how moons work. There is also the fact Gelda didnt like the feeling of the light in the DR in the Cursed by Light movie and shes a vampire which also imply the light was sunlight which could imply a star. You also didnt even mention Chandlers True Night in which he creates a starry night and a moon and using YOUR logic, because they look like starts, they are starts. But even if we dont use your magic the fact the abiloity is called True Night and he gets an amp from it and Escanor gets nerfed from it means it REALLY IS night time and its not an illusion nor is it simply "really dark" hence the name TRUE Night. So casually multi solar from a character who isnt even a top tier and you can upscale from that using the multipliers i provided because that version of Chandler is far weaker than even Ludociel 6. Dorothy claiming the impossible is possible doesnt even inherently confirm its infinite in size. For one Lucks range isnt infinite, all it means is that the size of the world exceeds his sense range and he would just THINK its infinite. Two its a cryptic answer in of itself, she doesnt directly say its infinite she just says the impossible is possible cause thats kinda the gist of her whole ability. She could be saying it just to fuck with them because theyre ones claiming its infinite and shes just like "yup thats totally true" even its not actually. If Dorothy HERSELF had literally said its infinite, sure then id take the claim more seriously but theres too much gray area for it to actually work. 7. As for the other infinite statements thinking about them in the context of fighting someone if youre fighting someone and they dont show signs of tiring, yeah you could say they have infinite stamina that doesnt mean youre LITERALLY saying they have infinite stamina. Infinite could just mean very great which would FIT the way all those guys are using them since theyre fighting people who seemingly jus dont run out or get tired. 8. 20:04 who says this??? 9. Durability neg and regeneration negation but to what level? Cause its been shown that high level demons can regen from regen negation like when Meliodas and Zeldris did from Escanors The One attacks when base form Escanor negated Melasculas regen. Not only that Estarossa in his fight against Tarmiel and Sariel was torn apart on a molecular level, meaning his hearts were destroyed and yet he still regened back and SOMEHOW also escaped a close off dimension too. 10. You also never addressed the fact Nakaba literally says Mama Hawks power is impossible to measure and that TMF Meliodas is close to that and my 4D Chaos argument, I know you read the comment cause you replied to it, Purgatory has a different flow of time and is stated to be a "Land of Chaos" implying Chaos created it which would be a 4D feat.
I fully support this argument it makes a lot more sense then what was said. Tbh bad speed scaling plus dorthy wank is what makes asta auto win this. I would also like to add that its likely that due to it being a fantasy realm that the unreal non defined qualities is prob nerfing weaker characters perception of it as its a fairy tale realm where she can make whatever she wants. I feel like also that the dimension durability is just the users magical power allowing anyone of strong enough power to disrupt and destroy it. If it didnt work that way whats to stop her from just spawning attacks that have already hit you like just encasing enemies in solid magically enhanced diamond that is the size of a planet and then crushing that mass ontop of ya. If she acually controlled an infinite sized space she should have been like throwing planets and stars at enemies casually from all directions.
1. Where does it state this? Its certainly an ability of the demon clan, but where is it stated that it's their biology? Again, this a high burden considering the plethora of times its referred to as magic. 2. If you are referring to when Meliodas full countered the lightning against the Demon Lord? If so, you'd need to prove that its real lightning. The Demon Lord raises his hand and summons lightning (that looks unnatural). Meliodas Full Counter's it back at him. Then it's verbatim stated, "... and he even reabsorbed the magic deflected at him." The lightning that is deflected back at the demon lord is literally called magic. So many times it is stated that Full Counter reflects magic. This is why on top of all the other statements Darkness is magic, just like the lightning. 3. The commandments are called "no ordinary magic." That just means it's a higher form of magic. I mean let's say Asta can't destroy the commandments, he's still won the fight at this point. 4. I know the Gowther calc, that is what I was referencing in the video. The issue is that it's not as supported to be light speed like other magic. And as I said in the video, if you are going to assume any light-based magic is light speed, the same needs to be done for Black Clover and therefore Gauche's light is Light speed and black clover is even faster. The issue is that Power increases and speed increases aren't linear (at least not to the degree) of Black Clover. Meliodas creates many clones of himself that each have HALF the combat class of the previous iteration. Yet they all have around the same speed. Even though by your own argument they should each be far slower than the other consecutively. So your speed scale isn't supported if its based purely off of power increases since you didn't justify a linear speed increase. Also, even your high ball calc is not even close to the speed I scaled Asta in my old Asta speed scale that is severely outdated due to the massive power and speed progression that happened since then. ua-cam.com/video/eIL-izas3wY/v-deo.html 5. You seem so mad over this. Let's say I grant you that the moon and stars in Dorothy's realm are just bullshit (steelman, I still disagree with what you are saying), she still created an infinite space. You are talking to a wall right now. I know this. Just because I didn't mention it in the video because it wasn't needed. You don't need to show every piece of evidence to argue that Meliodas is solar system level. It's like you are acting like I didn't give Meliodas Solar System due to lack of evidence, even though I gave him the meta because I know the evidence. Yes, I do know how the star metas function. I didn't feel the need to justify every single point that supports it. Its funny how YOU are saying I don't understand the star meta even though you don't even realize that we've literally seen a star in the demon realm. Yet you're arguing based off light from the moons to justify a star? I certainly know the Chandler True Night. Considering the Izraf with darkness power was able to make an eternal night by warping space-time, you can say that Chandler is doing something similar. I'm not saying it doesn't mean he's not doing what you're saying, it's just not as supported as you think. These are all things I was going to mention as supporting evidence for when I do a Seven Deadly Sins focused power scale on my channel (Meliodas or Escanor video). Video was too long to simply cover everything, just as I didn't get to cover everything for Asta. 6. It does. She is literally responding to Magna's "not possible" claim by saying "here in Glamour World, the impossible is possible." The answer is absolutely not cryptic. Luck claims the realm is endless, Magna says that's not possible, and the creator of said spell affirms it. "She could be saying that to fuck with them." Yeah, you literally have no argument to counter it. This argument can be used for literally anything in both series to downplay the fuck out of them. 7. Yes infinite CAN mean "Great." But the "infinite power" statements hold a lot more weight when they scale above Dorothy who creates an infinite space. 8. SO many people say that Chaos created the universe. actually surprised you don't see people saying this. 9. Very high level. Asta's regeneration negation has worked on people who have resistance regen neg. Jack's magic has regeneration negation, as it had just adapted to Fana's Pheonix robe that was strong enough to regenrated her upper torso from being pulverised. Also, Jack's magic could neg Dante's initial level of regen. But once he went full power he couldn't actually negate the regen like he could before, even though Dante says that anti-magic can. So yeah, Asta's regeneration negation works on people who have resistance to regen negation. Nothing implies Estarossa's hearts were destroyed. Hell, we don't even see his body being destroyed. He is literally taking the attack and then takes an additional commandment. Its stated that if you are strong enough you can break out of the dimension. 10. There were many other statements and feats for Asta that I left out. I nor most people believe that every little thing needs to be stated in one single video. (especially since I gave Meliodas the High-Universal scaling in the video anyways) And no, Purgatory is never to have been stated to be created by Chaos. Nor is it implied. Simply being a chaotic realm (definitially it was chaotic with a lower case "c") doesn't mean it was made by Chaos. Is it possible? yes. But nothing about it is concrete.
Like how when Demon Lord threw moons and planets down at the Seven Deadly Sins because he created a Multi-Solar System sized realm, so he can totally do that. Oh wait, he didn't do that. But just as that's not an argument to debunk his scaling, neither does it debunk anything to do with Dorothy's scaling. @@josephvaccariello4181
@@Br0ku I think another way to look at Meliodas's scaling is to look at how the realm works. Such as how when there is either too much power or too much power concentrated (So in few amount of people *DK and TMF Meli*) the realm would be destroyed. But we don't know enough about what causes the realm to collapse, if it is from too much concentrated power, too much power in the realm in general, or maybe the realm was made with less power than what currently resided in the realm. If we assume Chaos made the regular realm than we can assume that TMF Meli x 2 would be at a similar power level to an unknown amount of power. So we can't really tell for sure since we have no idea how much power it took to make the realm. But if Chaos made the realm and we assume the realm has stars, moons, galaxies, and a whole universe then you could scale Meliodas to =>universal, but that with the DK and TFM, so the most I think you could scale him is to galaxy or higher but lower than universal. But that is just speculation because we do not know enough about chaos and or how he created these realms and how they function and collapse. Also like you said Chaos was born from stars, meaning Meliodas could scale lower to Galaxy or lower since he is obviously not stronger than Chaos but it is hard to say cause we don't actually know Chaos's limits or abilities much. But honestly after probably over an hour of being on this video, I'd have to say Asta wins. I don't really think it is cause Asta is "So much stronger" I just think it happens to be a bad match up for Meliodas since Asta's abilities are the perfect counter to pretty much all his powers. Another thing is if dark (Meliodas's dark in particular) is magic, than why wouldn't Merlin just use Absolute Cancel on his AM Dark when he was losing control. And why hasn't Merlin ever uses her Absolute Cancel to cancel any dark attached to a demon. We could possibly assume Asta can negate his dark by simply cutting through it, but I don't think its something that would just simply be destroyed, while I think projectiles of dark are considered magic the dark on the Meliodas's body I'm not sure about but I see why your claims on it are valid. Also what is considered magic, because in SDS anything created is magic since it was all created by the magic of the Demon King and Supreme Deity and Chaos created them. But it is hard to say because Chaos has reality manipulation and I don't know if you'd consider that magic or not, or anything created by Chaos is magic. But it is definitely something to think about. But in all honesty a lot of this could be wrong or put into bad wording because I've been up for over 24 hours atm and I haven't watched BC or SDS in a while nor read the mangas so I'm going off what you said mostly other than a lot of the SDS stuff. So if it sounds like im talking out of my ass i might be rn lowkey faded
@@reallord_prestonian5184 you can just argue darkness is resistant to power null or it was too strong for her to cancel out. Sorry I can’t respond to everything you said I’m busy doing homework rn. I might stream later and discuss the topic of this video
Personally I don't like the idea of stockpiling Meliodas' powers like this since it's giving him powers that he realistically shouldn't have. Also I do believe that Dorothy Unsworth's "Glamour World" is more of a hax base ability that doesn't 100% correlates to her actual AP.
Yeah but it’s a weird thing that a lot of 7DS fans do. Everytime you mention him in a vs battle they bring up composite Meliodas. As for Dorothy, even if you said she only partially scaled to it at 10%. 10% of infinity is still High-Uni. But I do believe I provided fair amount of evidence that she does scale to it.
Here's how I see it. Outside of her Glamour World, she's probably really physically and magically weak (but still MFTL+, she caught Yami) and would probably be the WEAKEST captain by far. INSIDE her Glamour World she scales to whatever she wants because it's HER world. Her magic power is a dream that is essentially just an alternate dimension she creates. Within that space she is high universal, because her power allows herself within the confines of Glamour World to essentially become god of it. Outside of it, she does not scale to that because she can't exert god-like power outside of Glamour World. That's basically how her magic works. Weak outside of her world, god within it. But since everything inside it is REAL, like it has all the chemical compositions and sizes and such, you can use real scaling inside the world such as Yami using Dimension Slash to destroy an infinite space.@@jordandavilabrown294
His sword skills have improved significantly. When he faught liebe he depicted everything he learned from all of his teachers. And after going to Japan he got even better. 7 deadly sins sword style is very European, while their is a range in BC.
I think we're forgetting that Meli is a Demon, and when times are dire he can sacrifice six of his seven hearts to enter Indura mode which should tip the scales in his favor
@@JonasRosadobro meliodas is highest ranked demon it’s stated that high level demons with power levels over 50000 can transform Mel probably turn Indra when he was a toddler
Asta's demon slayer sword would be very useful in Kimetsu no yaiba. Meliodas is a leader figure from the beginning. Asta wants to be in a leader position.
@@irrelevanttroll3312 bro the whole 7ds show is just grooming, sexual assault and shitty power scaling, the story was amazing, but was ruined by the animation, i dont usually judge any anime because of the animation because i dont notice it, but for 7ds, i couldnt ignore it
i don't think meliodases counters would be useless since it's been established multiple times that anti magic itself is a form of energy and with verse equalization it should be able to be reflected but that's just my opinion. (not that it would change the outcome much)
Verse Equalization equalizes magic and Mana. Not Anti-Magic. As Verse equalization equates the main energy systems of each verse. But still, Meliodas wouldn't be fast enough to use it.
@@Br0ku Wrong as noted full counter can reflect natural lightning a natural energy. He can reflect any energy not just strictly magical energy. Doesnt meliodas also have like a technique where he attacks somebody and blitzes them with 1000 attacks very early on? Like the people he uses this on massively upscale to weak holy knights who can react to lightning casually meaning just that technique makes him several hundreds of times faster then light if he can use it to blitz a lightning timer.
@josephvaccariello4181 hey br0ku went and found the chapter you mentioned. the lightning meli full countered was a magical attack. im too lazy to confirm this but thats also how i remembered it going. and where is it stated meli can full counter any energy and not just magic?
@josephvaccariello4181 and also im no scientist but i dont think lightning timers equate to light speed timers. i could be wrong on that though but ide want to make sure before stating that.
Meliodas even at the beginning of the series is FTL, it's confirmed Gilthunder himself moves faster than the stroke of lightning itself and he can make himself move even faster, then even while buffed later on Meliodas far outscales him..in the manga Meliodas intercepted a bolt of lightning before it could touch the ground, and he's millions to billions of times faster because for example, a later form of base Meliodas scales above Zeldris, Zeldris can attack fast enough a Goddess who's ability makes them able to teleport cannot touch him, even though they're relative power level wise, then you have a feat where Ban can keep up with DK Meliodas with all Commandments which is much stronger than anyone else at that point, and Meliodas post Purgatory is even faster and stronger than that without any Commandments or transformations, to the point he one shots the Demon King..also Cath and anyone who scales to them might be faster and stronger than people say they are, Meliodas scales to Arthur who has full access to Chaos itself and he's even stronger at the very end of the story, to the point he single handedly can stop Arthur and Merlin as a duo with full access to Chaos and manipulation of physics, and time as well..Merlin is confirmed to be able to manipulate time, which is why she doesn't age..and Meliodas is unaffected by frozen time as well...
im no powerscaler or even someone whos good at debating but something "im not sure what exactly" doesnt sit right with me here. i feel like meli was downplayed because 7ds manga doesnt state its feats as much as it just shows them if that makes sense. so from a power scalers perspective i can understand how he would seem slower or weaker but my gut is telling me physically and speed wise he would have the upper hand. but asta would have the uper hand when it comes to magic/anti magic abilities. so i would honestly think the fight would be much closer than this video made it seem. but thats just my opinion based on how i view the characters not powerscaling
@@wuuhnnnelements no but they are different things. Regardless of that, blatantly outspeeding lightning and hitting it before it hits the ground from a distance puts him above lightspeed
It took 5-7 seconds for the spear to reach meli 7.3 miles away, and 4-6 to go back to Gil, that’s not light speed. It’s a lil under Mach 5 going to meli and a lil over Mach 5 going back. By the lightning logic luck is the fastest character in the bc existence but he’s not. Meli can reach FTL fasho but MFTL+ I’m not sure. A sleeping asta dodged a light speed attack in his sleep and it’s to be believed that in the entrance exam he moved at Mach 4 to reach sekke in a fifth of a second before knowing to use his powers
Meliodas wins. Asta can cut through magic but Meliodas' body and darkness matter are physical and not magic. Demons could still heal and use darkness while having 0 magic. Galand for example got cut through half but could retach itself using darkness. Meliodas is very durable. He tanked a slash from DK Zeldris across his chest but only got a small cut.. I don't see Asta easily cutting Meliodas through half. He should be physically stronger than DK Zeldris to easily cut Meliodas in half. Only advantage Asta could be speed but Mel is too durable, strong, better stamina etc. If Asta gets tagged with great force, it's game over.
Meliodas will win. I think you downplayed him, while highballing Asta. Asta could react to light attacks only thanks to ki sence, so he isn't near to light speed in the beginning If you use uni meta scale, when you should remember, that Merlin does have infinite power, and she states that assualt mode Meliodas will murdrer her and other members of sins squad. She also use infinity to amp her attacks against Chandler, but he was completely fine after them. Merlin states that he and Kuzak are impossibly strong, impossibly durable, impossibly fast. And Meliodas in base after purgatory would walk them down like nothing Also, i don't think Asta can negate commandments. He had some troubles with normal curses and this curses are created by the demon god himself And also, talking about demon king, he is conceptual being. His presence effect the balance of mortal plane as well, plus he got powers to do something against Chaos, which is stated to be light and darkness itself About Chaos, it is drive of the power, that spawned among stars. So basically it is mind of power, and power itself was existing before it got mind. Also Chaos create Purgatory, which is easily uni feat And about curses. They did not regenerate after first destruction. Merlin respell them. So hes ability to earse is actually powerful. He can earse conceptual being, curses that manipulate fate. Asta isn't anywhere near to that In conclusion, i think u downplayed Meliodas. While Asta with his power ups will be uni +, Meliodas will be equal to that in base and with true magic he will obliterate Asta neg dif
To me meliodas is the Uber prodigy who never had to try while asta was someone who had to relentlessly fight hard and push his limits in order to achieve his power. This is even shown in the narrative with meliodas gaining his greatest boosts in power when he starts letting more out of him and chooses to use his power. While characters like Yami constantly push the tagline of breaking your limits. And asta is shown training almost daily
Meliodas was already born as the strongest character in the series. His training was to CONTROL his power, not to increase it. Him accidentally unleashing his wrath destroyed an entire kingdom off the map once.
@@moahammad1mohammadhe definitely was not. He had the potential to be the strongest but he still needed help to beat the demon king not to mention that choas and Arthur are much more powerful than meliodas
@@moahammad1mohammad Nah, Escanor was always stronger. Just ask him and he'll tell you. As long as he believes it, it is true. Escanor's powers rely entirely on how arrogant he is.
@@JonasRosadoAuthur is NOT more powerful than Meliodas. In the Four Knights of the Apocalypse, Authur invaded Britannia and tried to kill the four knights himself. He was VISIBLY SCARED and RETREATED once he met Meliodas on the battlefield. He MAY be more powerful than Meliodas, but definitely nowhere near powerful enough to put him down.
I love Asta but I highly disagree. There’s no way asta is winning this. Meliodas’s experience in combat alone scales him far above Asta in terms of battle prowess. There was even a point where Meliodas couldn’t even exist in the mortal realm without the world being destroyed.
@@Br0ku That’s not true although I don’t exactly remember how they managed to stop that from happening the demon king did explicitly say at one point that Melinda’s would not be able to last a full day on the human world
@@Br0kuthe reason why Britannia was almost destroyed is because meliodas was stronger than the demon king and Zeldris also and because 2 demon kings which like you said before and it's not because meliodas was there for so long
Dorothy doesn’t scale to her glamour world nor does yami cutting through it because they are both hax abilities asta is planetary high ball and FTL you can also scale meliodas around that level i think asta has the edge
Ya glamour world dose not make her a universal. It’s like saying gojo from jujitsu kisen is universal because invite void has been stated to be a space with no end. On top off that 2 of the 4 arch angles can do that too because they made there own pocket universe where the target was always in range of their power and that power was always active even without their input but that dosnt make them universal nor dose it make esstarossa universal for breaking it all. Hax abilities like that can’t be used to scale a character, they can be used to say” hey this ability is really strong so it make the character more likely to win a fight” but it can’t be used to say the characters is this strong because breaking cutting through space means you your a galaxy breaker it just means your power bypasses that rule
I know it’s just a stupid anime discussion but saying dorafi (I forgot how to spell her name) is a universal character because she has glamor world is such a leap in logic it hurts my head. Don’t get me wrong I find it to be a cool hax ability but it’s just that a hax, she doesn’t scale off her world. I feel stupid on how annoyed I feel about it 🤣🤣
Man, the way Glamour World can be interpreted, Broku can basically never lose against anyone. God Bless him for using it so well. Based Broku Flowchart: 1) Is the Enemy Universal AP? (a). Yes = Universal Glamour World Calc (b). No = Move to #2 2. Is the Enemy Galaxy Level? (a) Yes = Galaxy Glamour World Calc (b) No = Move to #3 3. Is the Enemy Solar System AP? (a) Yes = Solar System Glamour World Calc Stacking (b) No = Enemy Loses
This is the death battle we should’ve gotten! Can make a video on Noelle and mimosa’s powers and how they stack up to the other ladies of black clover? 22:50 You know that’s actually a very good question. Please do an asta vs natsu video in the future! This was a great video!
Fun fact: seven deadly sins has a continuation series named "4 knights of the apocalype." And, after seeing how strong meliodas is in his base form against king arthur, i unfortunately have to disagree on this one.
I’ve read it. I don’t think there is sufficient evidence that Chaos Arthur is as strong as True Magic Meliodas, which is why i used TM version in the video.
In the end that doesn't take away all the counters asta has it he is definitely much stronger in knights of the apocalypse but not strong enough to close the gap
The scaling of the magically created world i would have to say is clear wank. Looking at the story critically, everything you said is technically correct, but obviously thinking with authors intent and narrative purpose in mind, it’s obviously not meant for her to be creating full solar systems/universes. The supreme diety and demon king on the other hand are mean to be godlike figures. They defeated and sealed “chaos” who created the actual real universe they live in from nothing, meaning at least together they have the power to defeat a universe creating being. and narratively them having “supreme power” it’s obviously their purpose in the story. Meanwhile the woman you mentioned is late story fodder. I dont even remember her name.
@@powerscallingfiend i agree, i used “creation” because the feat that he named in the video involved the girl from black clover creating a world and then it being destroyed.
personally i think it could go either way depending on what version of each character you use, i just hate when the 7DS fans bring up immortality even tho we are using demon king meli who doesnt have it, but either way its just debatable to how you scale or how you want to view the outcome, stan lee once said that the outcome of the fight is always up to the writer
Bro you have no idea how often I search this on UA-cam just to see if someone had made a comprehensive video on this match up just purely for entertainment, and now all I need is Asta Vs Ichigo done by you and my life is complete.
He’s not killing perfect cell even if you don’t use the universe Meta The solar system in dragon ball is actually a nebula that is comprised of a infinite amount of stars, which is why the cosmetology, even if you ignore the fact that some of the movies are canon in the anime, not the manga even lowest meta of power is ridiculous
@@marcioamaral7511 Nah I’ve been reading JJK since Shibuya and I always read the comments after finishing the manga. And currently we have a lot of coping and F in chat
20:09 that was stated by the wizards who have no reason to know a lot of shit about Chaos especially when other, more concrete information contradicts what they say
@@Br0ku i wouldnt say base meli wins bc he doesnt. but overall meli definitely wins. not only does he outmatch asta is strength attributes he also has more exp, and alot of stuff meli has are not magic based so asta cant counter them. meli in his weakest form is alr ftl base season 2 btw but eos meli is atleast mftl with calcs. now ap if we wanna keep it consistent they are both continental maybe even multi continental but i got meli bc he has better win cons.
melidas and cath dont scale to laid of the lake who has infinte magic chaos created everything in the world with a thought so laid of the lake should not even scale to arms worth of chaos since the lake was supper powerd with the excess magic power from the sins final attack which is making meliodas thousand to hundreds of times stronger than laidof the lack which makes mel power levels beyond standerd infinte up scaling mel uni power
As I said in the video, a lot of stuff had to be left out of the video for BOTH characters. Many abilities were left out for both Asta and Meliodas. I just tried to focus on their most important abilities. There was one major correction I wanted to put in as well as an addendum. 1. Existence Erasure True Magic Meliodas: I expanded a lot more in the original script, but it just shouldn't work on Asta. We already know that this is limited Existence Erasure, as Meliodas used True Magic on Elizabeth's reincarnation curse and it still regenerated twice. Furthermore, Meliodas's existence erasure is heavily implied to be power-based. Meliodas even says in 306, "I happened to become powerful enough to do it." In reference to erasing the curses. Not only that, but to actually erase the Demon Lord, a character far weaker than him, as stated in chapter 332, he needed to sacrifice all of his True magic power to do so. If Meliodas needs to sacrifice all of his true power to erase someone far weaker than him, then I don't think it's working on Asta who would be surrounded in power-null armor and far stronger than him. Or Meliodas needs to charge up all of his power in order to do EE at all (which likely won't work because of how much faster Asta is. Don't think he's going to stand there and take it.) 2. Demon Realm is bigger than I thought: Much of the scaling notes I used for the script started over a year ago. But a few months ago chapter 107 released and added more evidence that there are stars in the demon realm sky, actually making it a multi-solar system sized realm at the bare minimum (this was pointed out in the comments, thanks for that). This would upscale Demon Lord and thus, Meliodas to far above Multi-Solar System Level if you are using the creation meta. I still don't think it really changes the outcome, but that does make Meliodas a tier higher. As I said in the video, I am working on an addendum that is members-only. I will also be doing a stream where some of those things will be discussed as well. The original script was 45 minutes which I cut down to 37 minutes, then cut it down to 29 minutes, and finally 25 minutes. A lot more scaling, abilities, justifications, and scenarios were mentioned in the original. I am weary of doing longer scaling videos as most of the longer ones haven't performed well.
@@RomantikongGinoo I think your missing a point with that logic Goku did not beat many fights on his own that did not take away from his feats now dose it he still has the feats to prove he scales far higher in the end
@@doriankamanzi6874 what does goku have to do in this fight hahahaha and besides his opponents are on multi verse level above this is why asta v meliodas is mismatch asta have too much plot armor if asta is moving lightspeed in his devil union mode then dante has beyond lightspeed reaction time coz he was able to block and dodge astas atack? and even counter
That scaling is flawed in three points. The simplest first. Scaling speed is almost always wrong when using light speed as a base. What is the speed of light in the given fictional worlds? Is it the same? Is it different? Is light speed even constant in the fictional world? Is magic light different to non magic light? Best example is lightspeed in dragon ball. First of all in dragon ball the fans always make the mistake to set the statement faster than the eye and faster than light as equal. It's not. In fact dragon ball specifically has infinite lightspeed or a higher light speed than in our world. In Dragon ball they primarily use their eyes in a fight? It's proven by the constant successful usage of sun attack. They might be faster than our speed of light but there is no way that they are faster than in universe light speed. In black clover and seven deadly sins we have magical perception that is faster than speed of light. In these worlds the charters might be faster than the light in their universe but it is impossible to know how fast that is. Never compare speed feats based on light speed. The other flaw is that you compared universal power to domain specific power. Dorothy has god like power in her own dream world and she can create everything there. What she can't do is take something out of that space and use it in the normal world. Her power is bound to her domain, her dream world. The Demon king who created the demon realm on the other hand doesn't has this limitations. Everything created in his realm works perfectly in other worlds too. Problem is, that doesn't even matter. Creation doesn't transfer to strength. Again, an example from dragon ball. The kaioshin are basically the gods of creation in Dragon ball. They are the counter parts to the gods of destruction. In dragon ball it is easy to see that having the power of creation doesn't make them strong in any way. Progressive scaling and cross character feat scaling doesn't work. A beats B and C beats A doesn't mean C beats B. This always leads to false assumptions. Applying arbitrary multipliers because of training and time progression doesn't work too
it's actually not flawed, at all. In fact, it is your own logic that is. Using Dragon Ball to debunk Black Clover speed is already a fallacy. For two, just because light speed can be different in some fictional worlds doesn't mean anything. Again, some fictional worlds having different speeds of light is meaningless. Its an appeal to possibility that is a logical fallacy. Absolutely wrong. We've seen things created in the Glamour World be taken out of and used in the real world. This also wouldn't be an argument anyways. Creation feats can scale to strength. You can't just cart blanche that creation feats don't scale when it logically wouldn't make sense to exclude them. Again, you are using a different verse. Bringing up gods of destruction from dragon ball are absolutely meaningless when it comes to determining black clover creation feats. This is probably your worst point. We use A < B
@@Br0ku I didn't debunk Black Clover speed but your method of scaling wit Dragon Ball. It is not possible to scale speed feats if there is no similar metric and light speed is not a similar metric. You scaled Astas and Meliodas speed based on the speed of light in their respective universes without even discussing if light speed inside their universe is constant. That doesn't work. Let's take the fight of Rhya and Mereoleona as an example. Rhya is able to move at light speed because of the light magic he copies. Should don't really look like beeing at the same speed. Even if that's the case and Rhya is able to move at the speed of light as well as his attacks, Mereoleona keeping up with that speed doesn't give her FTL feats. Rhya doesn't think at light speed. There is a delay in him seeing Mereoleona move. Than he has to make a decision to use his magic to evade, he need to activate the magic and than the lightspeed movement starts. For Mereoleona to bliz Rhya she doesn't need to be faster than light. She has to be faster than Rhya can react and this is slower than light speed. For dodging an attack at light speed it is the same. Mereolena has magic perception that let's her predict the moves of the enemy. She doesn't need to dodge faster than light, she needs to dodge fast enough to outspeed Rhyas perception and prediction of her movement. That speed is slower than light speed. That is basically what I meant with the Dragon ball argument. People confuse "faster than the eye" with "faster than light". Black Clover has many examples for abilities that let's you predict an attack before seeing that attack, be it an effect of mana zone or the reading of ki. Not even can we compare light speed between different universes, we can't scale movement based on attacks that use light speed unless we see a character running next to an attack like this. What creation from the dream world was used in the real world? Maybe I forgot but I don't think she did that. It would break basically everything in Black Clover. With magic like this she could reproduce every non magical object and create unlimited money, food and resources for the kingdom. When did she do it and what are her limits than? Can she even create a real planet? She needs to be able to imagine the object she wants to create. Would she be able to imagine a star in enough details to create them or is she only able to create a huge hot fire ball or a sun in the very distance like she knows the sun? For the last part, how is it not arbitrary how you put Astas speed at 188c than applied a multiplier that you just put at 4 because of a dictionary, than you take magna into account as faster than that because I don't know, scale Dante based on Magna, than you make the assumption that mana and speed scales linear to each other which is completely wrong and than you come back to Asta and say he is faster than dante and come to the conclusion that Asta is a few hundred thousand times the speed of light. Sorry but that's not how it works. If you compare Mana to pure Energy which is a valid assumption the energy for becoming faster is not linear. I would guess air resistance is a thing in black clover. Air resistance is goes up by the power of 2 when increasing the speed. Taking asta base to black mode with a power multiplier of 4 would lead to an increase in speed by 2. The increase of 500 times in power from dante would translate to a speed increase of around 22. Applying that to every multiplier you used makes Asta much slower. Than again, I don't even know if he is at light speed at all because of the arguments before.
That's where you are wrong. There is a metric. Its called light. Light moves at the speed of light. In other verses it CAN move differently. You are APPEALING TO POSSIBILITY that baseline light speed can be different in both verses using the logic of other verses. That doesn't work here, as my argument is the more probable one. yours is ultimately moot. You must have missed the times where she literally moves faster than him and faster than light itself. Mereoleona is easily Faster than light in the elf saga. The calculation in the video is HER MOVING faster than the light. Sally tricks Reve into making glasses for her and then she brings the glasses into the real world. You saying that she can bring about infinite currency is wild because that would crash the global economy in Black Clover and it is highly in doubt that Dorothy would want to do that. In the manga, the water that Dorothy creates is chemically identical to water. So the moons/stars she creates in glamour world would also be the real thing. Lol, I don't think you have a clue what arbitrary means. The reason 4 is used for many is because the definition of "Several" is "More than two but less than many." 2 < several < Many. Which means that it means at least 4. So four is the lowball for "many". Not arbitrary. I didn't make the assumption that magic and speed scale linear to each other. It's literally how it is portrayed in the manga to work. If you paid attention to any of my videos, Zora's traps double the power of magic thus doubling the speed. It's literally stated that he doubles magic power, and in turn, that doubles speed. That's how the power system for Black Clover Works. Air resistance is going to be bunk in that debate. @@hackfleischking5162
@@Br0ku watch that fight again. There is not a single move in the fight where she has to go faster than light. She can predict every attack from him just by reading the mana and his movements. To catch up with him isn't that hard while moving at light speed. Every time he does it he needs time for orientation because all senses aside from some magical perceptions don't work while moving at light speed. If she predict his landing spot she can start moving while his magic activates and has time to punch him while his senses take in the new position. A few times speed of sound depending on the distance he moves is enough for that. Oh yeah there was that thing with the glasses. Watch it again. They are there in the moment the dream world breaks but when they land outside of dream world they are gone. It is episode 112 if you want to look it up. Her creations will vanish in the real world. They are still gone in the next episode. Where is it stated that double the magic is double the speed? What is in the manga is that his trap throws back an incoming attack with double the speed and power. The part with double the magic is never stated by anyone who knows how magic works. The one saying that it doubles the magic and throws it back is asta, who doesn't know how magic works. In contrast, Mimosa stated that setting up traps like this must take very much time and a huge amount of mana. That's all we really know. The huge amount of man mimosa talks about could be any amount. Where else should the magic come from? It can't double the amount of mana out of no where. If it took all night to prepare the traps it is save to assume that he had to put the extra amount of magic inside the trap, or even more. Unless you can provide the chapter where Zora says it doubles the magic and that doubles power and speed, the statement is completely wrong. Zora didn't say it
asta vs meliodas is everybody favorite match up but my favorite match up for asta is sougo tokiwa aka kamen rider zio both are kinda has more connections like being orphans at a young age and was adopted by a foster family ( the orphange from hage village and sougo uncle) both are dense kindhearted and kinda stupid( no hate there) both had the impossble dream that everyone won't belive them( asta wanting to be the wizard king even without any magic and sougo wanting to be a king even in the modern world) both won't give up their dream but until they discover they had a dark power in them ( asta having anti magic and sougo having ohma zio power) and both get new power in every hardship and gets respect by their peers ( asta to magic knight captain and sougo to past kamen rider) and both lost someone to they love in front of them ( gauche and geiz) by their villian( dante and swarzt) and both fight their inner demons and accept them ( asta fought and befriend liebe and sougo fought ohma zio to stop his fate but in the end both agree to reset the world so everyone can be alive and happy)
20:30 this isn’t true you completely neglected to mention the sacred tree scaling. The sacred tree created a space time( the fairy realm) so it’s Uni +. low level demons are capable of significantly damaging the sacred tree. Such as the red demon via purgatory fire, and the Albion demon that was stated was going to physically destroy the tree. Beginning of series King using his full power one shotted that same Albion. So beginning of series king is already on that level of power. You saying it only comes from the high tiers is wrong.
Broku i think that AM is Anti-energy but it can controled, we know energy can not destroyed or created but anti energy destroy it we also mana is also energy and usiing that energy people gain magic power and do magic. In real world we know that anti matter exist and there are some theory so i think tabata took some inspiration from it and created anti energy and i also think that it was astaroth plan to create an ultimare weapon to fight against those who gain great power and those who immortals and kill them
Just got done watching black clover and have some info on the chapters after the anime. Just started watching 7DS, meliodas probably isn’t even 20% of his power I’m assuming that’ll he’ll have in later episodes. Just already seeing what meli is capable of, I find it extremely difficult to see a world where meli doesn’t easily curb stomp asta. You forgetting the skill component as well, meli seems to be on an entire different level skill wise and has hundreds of years of exoerince on asta. Plus I don’t even think their physical strength is comparable. Just 10 episodes in, meli has accomplished physical feats that far out pass anything asta has done even at the very end of the anime. Unless I’m missing something big in the manga, I don’t even see how this is a debate
Meliodas and Asta are very similar characters, they both use demonic power, but the difference is that one has powerful magic and the other has anti-magic. Nanatsu no Taizai X Black Clover.
Damn... well worth the wait. Although I expected it to be a bit closer ^^' As you have started to look into StarRail, how about a video about Blade? I really like the character in-game and am interested in how he scales. Mereoleona vs Escanor, as a follow-up on this one could be great. And the Black Bulls joining the Grand Magic Games in Fairy Tail also may be a cool video xD
@@Br0ku thank you xD admittedly I first was considering Blade vs Sephiroth, because their style aligns very well, but I'm not super confident Blade would deal with Sephis hax well enough to make it interesting (although, in-character, Sephiroth does prefer swordsmanship)
Just do the math. Liebe is inside the grimoire which is technically Asta's soul, and it is said that Liebe HATES demons, so Asta would be totally annihilated because according to Estarossa's commandment (which Meliodas has in this demon king form) it is said that " Everyone who harbors hatred in his presence loses the ability to hurt others." And the commandment says that hate does not need to be restricted to just the user, if he has any type of hate it is nullified.
@@PedroHenrique-ko8to already debunked in the video. Meliodas would need to have that specific commandment out for it to work. And it’s not going to work because the anti-magic will nullify it. And it wouldn’t make Asta powerless, just Liebe. Asta scales above Meliodas even without anti-magic. So, not even a win condition.
@@Br0ku ua-cam.com/video/PqToOLMU89k/v-deo.htmlsi=pJlX_SJ2wNH5hY9Z This video shows a better scale of meliodas, but it's not even that updated because it lacks the Chaos stuff
but in the 4koa manga meliodas was able to cut a moutain to pieces while fighting king arthur possessed by chaos, arthur also stated that if tristan did not get involved that he wouldve been seriously damaged.
As far as we’ve seen from Meliodas, he would still beat Asta fairly easily. But I’m not 100% caught up with Black Clover, so what’s happened that you consider to be massive updates?
Asta's anti magic wouldn't really work on Meliodas at all considering most of the abilities that he uses aren't magic because it was stated that the power that demons use aren't really magic. Meliodas can also be scaled to Infinite 3D, possibly 4D because he was stated to surpass the Demon King over a decade prior to his current self who was is equals with the Supreme Goddess who created the Celestial Realm that was inspired by Heaven in religion making it Infinite 3D at minimum. On the case of Meliodas not being fast enough, Meliodas has been shown multiple times to be incomparably faster than Escanor right now and even back then who was able to move in Zeldris' Ominous Nebula (when Merlin was not able to escape using Instant Teleportation) in his Base granting him Immeasurable speed. He can also be scaled to Immeasurable speed via scaling above Cath who was able to eat the concept of time. Another concern is you saying that Meliodas could kill Cell with a single click which completely proves you have no idea how to scale Dragon Ball characters or you just have no idea about the Dragon Ball Cosmology.
@@Br0ku Pretty sure it was clearly stated in the manga that demons posses the 'Power of Darkness' which is a separate power from their magical abilities.
bro it being inspired by heaven doesn't mean anything. Cath is not immeasurable speed. Merlin's is inaccessible at best, and that but that's only if the attack moved faster than her teleportation (it didn't, only faster than her activation) and Black Clover has the same type of feats.
All of that just to forget that asta can only maintain his unite form for 10 minutes, even if he gets the edge in speed and strength he cant finish meliodas in 10 minutes, after that its over
I agree with all this, only I’d put them at planet Ap. Also further proof of magic equalization between BC and 7ds is they both come from the soul, as when Malascula ate Escanor’s soul his sunshine Grace burned her.
10:08 So even without anti-magic or null resistance, Asta would still be resistant to all of the 10 commandments? Most of them wouldn't even activate due to his personality, but others just would never activate because Asta is, like, the perfect match for Meliodas? Even Pacifism wouldn't have to activate because if, like you said, Meliodas only needs to be out cold for an hour for Asta to win under standard battle assumptions. Even if Meliodas regenerates from Asta's attacks, he gets weaker the more damage he tanks. Even if any one of the commandments or even the Ruler activated and tried to effect Asta or his attacks, he has resistances to power null, mental attacks, physical attacks, pain, and he has anti-magic if needed. The Ruler would only activate upon magic attacks or healing, but anti-magic is not magic. Even True Magic and existence erasure wouldn't do much against Devil Union Asta or even Black Asta because of his anti-magic. Why is this even a debated topic? Someone saying "Meliodas would utterly stomp Asta" only means that they weren't keeping up with the Black Clover manga or reading it at all.
Bro gilthunder was dodging light attacks with a 3k power level if we split the power level to Spirit 1000 Strength 1000 Magic 1000 And lets give true magic meli 900k which is probably not that high Spirit 300k Magic 300k Strength 300k Low ball meliodas is 3000× faster then light 🤓👍
Gilthunder’s lighting early series has been calced to be like supersonic because it took half a minute to travel seven miles or something like that. Average lightning speed is like 1/800 speed of light so it only makes him FTL
OKay so I'm commenting on the sds side because that's the series I'm familiar with. First I'm not sure we can ever get a full gauge on Meliodas' power since he's either holding back for reasons or is nerfed in most if not all his encounters and with god form gone I doubt we ever will. Two, we don't know what Meliodas' actual inborn magic is. It's not existence erasure or anything like that. It's a complete unknown and something he's afraid to use, but it is separate (like how the ruler is for dk) from the power of a god, which was what he used to definitively destroy the personal curses and eradicate the commandments and is a feat that at minimum needed similarly level of god strength to pull off. Him erasing dk is just brute force power (my observation of this is that he didn't need all of his power to wipe out dk since he easily cleared him, but it was a useful way to get rid of it and stay in the human world). Could his real magic ability be strong enough to harm Asta? We currently don't know. As it is his full counter is basically a stop gap. Counter vanish seems to functionally be magic cancel. As for the commandments, they're magic, tiny fractions of dk's power/energy, but at the same time I believe more than just that. Mostly because of how they've been used by dk. Something like his life force, kind of like horcruxes. It's why they're nigh impossible to destroy or have their effects lifted by conventional means. Why they are sentient. And why the demon king can fully regenerate from them with enough time if left alone. A commandment can't work by itself, so when the demon king's physical form was finished off they did nothing. Also I am pretty sure dk wasn't hanging out in two planes of existence. He just beamed the rest of himself from purgatory into whoever has all commandments and that's why when they were destroyed he was permanently dead. By your argument, at best Meliodas would have just permanently destroy half dk's power/being. Going off the description about causality break, Asta should be able to circumvent the curses if he's not completely debilitated. It's annoying the curse effects weren't fully shown, and is mostly left up to interpretation. About the love, it's trigger conditions are broad: experience some form of hatred. It's not exclusive towards others. As long as you feel it at all, you're stun locked. Pretty sure this is how revenge counter was cancelled by Estarossa. Asta can still set this off and may be unable to move. I think pacifism can be sidestepped if it only pertains to intentional kills though we don't know it's range of activation, but there's a chance it could mean taking of ANY life. If so, even if Asta kills an animal or bug by accident during the fight it could trigger and drain lifespan near instantly, but since Asta is resistant maybe it shaves off only a small amount of time compared to his whole life. Inconsequential on it's own but can stack up fast. Not much to say about piety except that while Meliodas was cursed by it, he resisted the effects throughout the fight. The only way he could really shake it off though was by allowing himself to die, as noted by the demon king. Those three curses are the ones I really feel would impact the fight. My question is how many times can Asta use causality break? Nothing is stopping the curses from simply being repeatedly applied each time after they're removed. Honestly, I wouldn't give Meliodas the commandments and the ruler at all tbh. It's the demon king's abilities (who ends up having inferior levels of power) and God Mel outstrips them so composite Mel seems unnecessary. We saw so little of it, but god form should be capable of whatever dk can do. If so, then Meliodas really wanted to maybe he could just recreate the curse's abilities under his own power and use them whenever, passive or not. A note about tankiness, Estarossa stated that if he couldn't beat Sariel and Tarmiel he'd have pretty much no chance against Meliodas. Considering they just used an attack intended to physically destroy a demon at the molecular level to the point where they can’t regenerate on him and he came back from that, I think it's fair to say Meliodas is implied to at least be likely in this range of durability. Speed... just a can of worms all on it's own but Asta has much more concrete measurable speed here so gotta give it to him. Someone already corrected the hellblaze. Strength wise, well outside of what's in the video, one thing is he's been stated to have immeasurable grip strength (whatever that's worth) and is approaching Hawk Mama (Chaos) levels of power, something I don't even know how to scale since the thing spawns realm creating gods and turns reality into putty. Push comes to shove maybe include Indura usage as an unknown multiplier on top of that. The Glamour World thing gave me pause. Dorothy sounds like a character who spawns a pocket universe and is universal within it due to dream/pocket reality manipulation but not outside of it in the actual physical world. Since she says the impossible is possible, I guess she can one shot the big bad of that series should she entrap them in the spell and think about ending him? Maybe it's just my lack of understanding of how the power works but automatically placing everyone stronger than her outside of that dream world to universal level seems like an incredible jump. Has anyone else even come close to that level of a creation/power feat or is she displaying an ability inconsistent with what the rest of the cast can pull off? As far as I'm aware creation feats don't always align with output of combat power. I also don't think having unlimited magical power necessarily scales someone to being universal, because if so a character like Merlin could also be considered universal through her Infinity which I just don't believe. She's dangerous and has access to infinite magic, but I don't believe every character that beats her to be universal as well. In all, I'm not knowledgeable about Black Clover at all but I am about SDS and I have a good understanding of Meliodas' powers, which is why I believe he would have a better chance in a fight than what was presented. I'm not guaranteeing a win, but I am saying it's likely wouldn't be as one sided as it's made out to be here.
The conclusion that meliodas is solar system is reasonable within the bounds of character statement logic, but it is entirely unreasonable within the bounds of the plot itself because if he was that strong, the story would've played differently than it did, so he is not that strong. This doesn't mean your conclusion is wrong, it just means the writer fucked up and created an inconsistency within his own story. The end result is the wank placing him at like half galaxy levels, while to everybody who read the manga or saw the anime he at no point seemed that strong. And this level of inconsistency is why character statements should always take a backseat to what actually happens in the main story that we can clearly see having an impact. The deep lore about the solar system either happened within an uncountable number of years or it's simply a plothole.
This is how i see it. I feel like the reason none of the commandments were triggered when they were fighting zeldris is because the demon king was not intending to use them in the first place. It was more like they dissolved and lost they were being suppressed by his soul since they are basically a part of his will. So it's very unlikely that he would have used them. Its kinda hard scaling Dorothy to high universal since it's really unknown if she created glamour world or if she can access it through her magic just like how Obito can access his dimension through his Kamui
Knew it Asta stomps. Don't get me wrong Meliodas is really strong but Asta is something else. I never knew people actually wanted this fight though. The fights I'd alway wanted were. Meliodas vs Luffy, Shulk (Xenoblade) vs Tsuna (Reborn), and Rex (Xenoblade 2) vs Asta.
No astas pretty fodder against anything above g5 luffy/SO6P naruto you cant compare him 7DS or Fire Force character he loses to ban king merlin escanor elizabeth gowther arthur zeldris
Just my thoughts but I feel repose commandment means like those who’ve been fighting for a long period of time,example Ace verse Jinbe from One Piece fought for 10 days without rest people from seven deadly sins and black clover can’t fight for that period of time assuming btw so probably after the first couple ours of the fight after there magic gets low but theirs still forcing their body of repose is near it’ll probably activate and seal the persons magic so they’ll have to fight with out it and focus physically
From all your vids it’s clear that Asta is universal or stronger just releaaase it brother and keep up ! Does yuno having star magic with his speed feats makes him star level ? (I know he’s far stronger than that)
@@Br0ku true, but yuno’s stars had massive damage to 100% Zenon (planetary at least) and can teleport and overpowered time magic (windxstar magic) Escanor was just getting big and his "massive sun attack" just made a river dry So escanor feats are river lvl(💀) and yuno easily star
I mean Yuno's stars can be star level through scaling but not because they are called stars. But Estarossa had 5% of the Demon Lord's power, meaning that Escanor would be 5% Solar System level. @@fallenstar3713
In prisoners of the sky Meliodas fought Bellion and he broke his sword and keep in mind Meliodas in base form has crazy physical strength, so I believe Meliodas takes the win.
Meliodas magical strength isn't that high. We get a scaling from Hawk which differentiates his power in Magic, Strength and Spirit. As his power is unsealed his Magic power is at 2700 while his physical strength is at 27700 so 10x higher. Using his demon mark mostly increases his strength attribute so in terms of physical power Asta is nothing
Base meliodas is going to stomp him. He is way faster, physically stronger by alot, op healing, 3000 years old and one of the best swordsmen in the series. Demon mark is basically doubles his all stats making him even op. He would erase asta from existence.
that would be scaling asta to high solar system level and u can compare demons from bc to sds because to be fair the demons in sds are WAYYY stronger than the the demons dc and asta abilities dont instantly negates magic it weakness and poven by the magna that asta has struggled with magic before as aint tank meliodas mountain level BASIC attacks
The ten commandments are cursed magical power. They can be negeated and destroyed. Also asta would win. Most of the commandments are useless unless meliodas can pull a miel and fuse his ability with the commandments. Nanatsu no taizai nerd out!
I don't understand how you say that black clover characters are so much faster than light when asta before getting his black form , scaled to captain level characters and he was just a physically stronger human and people were even impressed that he can carry his swords , meaning he isnt that much stronger than a regular human . I get that light having light magic should make him and the characters that he fights light speed , but i doesnt make any sense how asta could keep up with them then . Iam pretty its anime science and it does not mean these characters actually move at light speed , not to mention thousand of times faster than that
The only real thing here i disagree with is Dorothy glamour world and som of the commandments that you say wouldn't work on asta except for tagt i agree mostly of what you say w video👍
The only real thing here i disagree with is Dorothy glamour world and som of the commandments that you say wouldn't work on asta except for tagt i agree mostly of what you say w video👍
what I meant is the 10 commandments responds to their DemonKing of any situation even if the person who has the commandments didn't say anything about their situation the commandments has their own consciousness and just does what they do.
Natsu, asta and meliodas are the best magic trio
My 3 favorite protagonists
Literally the best
Www
Nastu trash
@@treyrobertson7187 wdym?
Meliodas at the end of series was such a problem in his base form that he was rupturing the world just by existing and has more hax/durability neg. he sadly wrecks Asta no matter how many time's he think's he's going to say "now it's time to surpass my limits"
😬
No cap
No cap
If you actually paid attention to what they said in the chapter that was going to happen gradually do natural disasters and that was because there was 2 demon King's not because of just meliodas
Also the durability negation that seven deadly sins has is not on the same level as Black clover an anti-magic can just cancel out durability negation
I have to disagree with the physical aspect of this fight for sure... Asta is physically strong going against Lucifer but there is no way he's stronger than meliodas you lost me at that.. just all the stuff that Meliodas has done physically they're not in the same league for the most part...
Based on?
Thing is you only think like that because of how it’s shown. We don’t see goku destroy mountains with punches but we know he can.
@@Br0kuMeliodas slashed a mountain and made a clear large path with a stick
@@enzoleon2566 that wasn’t a normal mountain that was a large hill or a very small mountain. That’s been calculated to be only city level level feat. Not only is this feat useless to argue Meliodas being stronger than Asta, but it is nothing compared to Meliodas other feats.
Current manga asta has some insane strength feats
Verse equalization makes sense in matchups like this where the power system is fundamentally identical in both universes. Magic is pretty straight forward. My issue with verse equalization comes in when the they’re two completely different power systems. Quirks are part of the characters’ DNA in MHA, so equalizing something like ki in Dragon Ball to quirks would just be ridiculous to me. Even when people try to equate chakra from Naruto to magic or something. Chakra is a very specific power system in how jutsu utilize and manipulate chakra and in the role that chakra plays in an individual’s ability to function normally or even live.
this is slightly off topic, but... I would say that due to descriptions
if you did a Verse equalization between Dragon Ball, Bleach and Naruto
Reiatsu is spirit energy
Ki is physical/life energy
and Chackra would be quite literally a mixture of both(i remember it being described as a mix of physical and spiritual energies) which is funny because afaik Dragon Ball > Bleach > Naruto when it comes to powerscale
I hate some people who says chakra,spiritual pressure& haki= antimagic.
Like bro the bc literally have a power system called ki
@@sandeeprajshrestha5057 i mean, you could make a REALLY big stretch and say that spiritual power is approximated to magic due to how spirits work in Black Clover
A similar stretch could be done about Chackra, since it is spiritual energy and physical energy combined, and those individual energies would exist in BC if you make the previous stretch
Now, Haki... that stretchs too far for me, im no rubberman, maybe if i go very far the Haki would be slightly similar to ki?
@@huntercraft5674 I think devil fruit is more likely a magic than haki.
@@sandeeprajshrestha5057 i mean, i cant even imagine equalizing Haki to magic
As i said, KI is much more similar in comparison
Im gonna be typing this all out as im watching the vid
1. Darkness is a biological aspect of the demons, yes you can say its magic but its a part of their biology which is why they can use the "magic" even tho they have zero magic energy inside them, thats why you never see Merlin just absolute cancel a demons darkness, and Zeldris who was in possession of "God" couldnt nullify Meliodas's darkness either.
2. Full Counter can also work on natural lightning and non magical things, so its not just magic that it can work on.
3. Curses also are treated as a higher form of power not just purely magic, and they can regenerate as long as the Demon King is alive. Which would make this kinda weird since the DK himself isnt part of the vs battle so Asta has no real way of getting rid of the Commandments for good.
4. For speed you could go further saying Gowthers Bow and Arrow are confirmed to be light as well and Tiny Diane which is many times weaker than even normal base diane from the start of the series was capable of reacting to and dodging a multitude of those arrows. That alone was calced at around 4.1X ftl iirc, so you can just start from there. Small Dianes power level is 950 while normal Diane is 3,250 around 3.4 times higher so 4.1x3.4 so you could argue all the base sins would be around 14x ftl. Theres also Oslo who reacted to Maels Light which if we assume is base light speed and we dont upscale it from simply being a much stronger character would still also be like 30x ftl and Oslos not that strong in the verse so you can upscale from him too but you could also just say Oslo is amped cause he's sacrificing his life to save his friends so some mental amp maybe.
The highest recorded power level in SDS was Ludociel who had one of 201,000 and this wasnt even his full power keep in mind, so upscaling from Diane he'd be around 865x ftl at least and Ludociel is fodder compared to the EOS Sins. We know that the we know that 1 archangel is at least as strong as 2 commandments as said by Tarmiel and Sariel. So following that we could assume all 10 commandments are worth roughly 5 graces and DK Meli had all 10 commandments which would roughly make him 4325x ftl at least. As we know DK Zel is roughy =< to DK Meli. Regardless Normal Meli can beat up this DK Zel but then DK Zel gets an amp and 2nd stage Zel can beat up Base Mel easily. Once Mel uses DM however its back to him and even the weakest form of DM is is at least a 3x amp so 12975x ftl.
Then PDK is capable of blizting DM Meli and Meli goes Assault Modes power level was 142000 so that off of a 60000 base form, which is a bare minimum (going off of power levels) of at least 2-2.5x which should be a low ball considering itd make no sense to be a lower amp than basic DMs and not only that AM Meli seemingly slowly grows in power as he stays in the form meaning its just him getting used to the form again so the multiplier could be higher. So low ball 25950x ftl,
Take note that there are multiple lowballs throughout this scaling and it isnt even done with calcs, it has one calc and its just power level/multipliers.
The worst part is that power levels in SDS arent even linear to their strength, you dont need a 2x power level to be 2x stronger than someone. When Meliodas fought Ban he arguably got a 3x increase right? But his actual power level only went up by roughly 30% So if we apply that logic to these multipliers then we get Meliodas in AM EOS bare minimum using Meliodas BOS Base to his lowballed EOS base of 1 mil we'd get 146444944842x ftl then we apply the DM amp which is 3x again to 439334834526 and AM again another bare minimum 2x so youd get 878669669052x ftl which is pretty ridiculous and prob not true but is still just using the logic shown in the actual series.
Regardless of what way you scale his speed TMF would be 1000s of times higher than both of these levels as you said. Im not even gonna bother to apply the multipliers to his AP.
So absolute lowballed to the max highball is 25950xftl to 146444944842xftl
5. "That is if you go by the same logic of Demon Lord created a Solar System"
Thats actually fucking hilarious, that is not the "same logic" lmao
Twinkling lights and a bright white circles are not enough to automatically claim theyre stars or moons lmao wtf? You could literally just say the "stars" are just random sparks of energy or light sources that dont have to be stars and the "moon" can literally just be a shiny white ball, like you cant even see any real details on it.
Do you not actually know how the Star metas in SDS function?
The Goddess Realm has a star because Maels power "Sun" literally requires the presence of a star in order to use it and he can use it in the Goddess Realm implying that there is a star in there, and considering the fact the ability itself is LITERALLY called Sun the star is prob an equivalent to the normal worlds Sun.
For the Demon Realm we literally see at night that there two moons being lit up, not only do we actually see the moons in detail craters an all which makes it obvious theyre meant to be moons (and theyre not just random white balls in the background) but theyre lit up to which implies the existence of a star in the DR too cause you know thats how moons work. There is also the fact Gelda didnt like the feeling of the light in the DR in the Cursed by Light movie and shes a vampire which also imply the light was sunlight which could imply a star.
You also didnt even mention Chandlers True Night in which he creates a starry night and a moon and using YOUR logic, because they look like starts, they are starts. But even if we dont use your magic the fact the abiloity is called True Night and he gets an amp from it and Escanor gets nerfed from it means it REALLY IS night time and its not an illusion nor is it simply "really dark" hence the name TRUE Night. So casually multi solar from a character who isnt even a top tier and you can upscale from that using the multipliers i provided because that version of Chandler is far weaker than even Ludociel
6. Dorothy claiming the impossible is possible doesnt even inherently confirm its infinite in size. For one Lucks range isnt infinite, all it means is that the size of the world exceeds his sense range and he would just THINK its infinite. Two its a cryptic answer in of itself, she doesnt directly say its infinite she just says the impossible is possible cause thats kinda the gist of her whole ability. She could be saying it just to fuck with them because theyre ones claiming its infinite and shes just like "yup thats totally true" even its not actually. If Dorothy HERSELF had literally said its infinite, sure then id take the claim more seriously but theres too much gray area for it to actually work.
7. As for the other infinite statements thinking about them in the context of fighting someone if youre fighting someone and they dont show signs of tiring, yeah you could say they have infinite stamina that doesnt mean youre LITERALLY saying they have infinite stamina. Infinite could just mean very great which would FIT the way all those guys are using them since theyre fighting people who seemingly jus dont run out or get tired.
8. 20:04 who says this???
9. Durability neg and regeneration negation but to what level? Cause its been shown that high level demons can regen from regen negation like when Meliodas and Zeldris did from Escanors The One attacks when base form Escanor negated Melasculas regen. Not only that Estarossa in his fight against Tarmiel and Sariel was torn apart on a molecular level, meaning his hearts were destroyed and yet he still regened back and SOMEHOW also escaped a close off dimension too.
10. You also never addressed the fact Nakaba literally says Mama Hawks power is impossible to measure and that TMF Meliodas is close to that and my 4D Chaos argument, I know you read the comment cause you replied to it, Purgatory has a different flow of time and is stated to be a "Land of Chaos" implying Chaos created it which would be a 4D feat.
I fully support this argument it makes a lot more sense then what was said. Tbh bad speed scaling plus dorthy wank is what makes asta auto win this. I would also like to add that its likely that due to it being a fantasy realm that the unreal non defined qualities is prob nerfing weaker characters perception of it as its a fairy tale realm where she can make whatever she wants. I feel like also that the dimension durability is just the users magical power allowing anyone of strong enough power to disrupt and destroy it. If it didnt work that way whats to stop her from just spawning attacks that have already hit you like just encasing enemies in solid magically enhanced diamond that is the size of a planet and then crushing that mass ontop of ya. If she acually controlled an infinite sized space she should have been like throwing planets and stars at enemies casually from all directions.
1. Where does it state this? Its certainly an ability of the demon clan, but where is it stated that it's their biology? Again, this a high burden considering the plethora of times its referred to as magic.
2. If you are referring to when Meliodas full countered the lightning against the Demon Lord? If so, you'd need to prove that its real lightning. The Demon Lord raises his hand and summons lightning (that looks unnatural). Meliodas Full Counter's it back at him. Then it's verbatim stated, "... and he even reabsorbed the magic deflected at him." The lightning that is deflected back at the demon lord is literally called magic. So many times it is stated that Full Counter reflects magic. This is why on top of all the other statements Darkness is magic, just like the lightning.
3. The commandments are called "no ordinary magic." That just means it's a higher form of magic. I mean let's say Asta can't destroy the commandments, he's still won the fight at this point.
4. I know the Gowther calc, that is what I was referencing in the video. The issue is that it's not as supported to be light speed like other magic. And as I said in the video, if you are going to assume any light-based magic is light speed, the same needs to be done for Black Clover and therefore Gauche's light is Light speed and black clover is even faster. The issue is that Power increases and speed increases aren't linear (at least not to the degree) of Black Clover. Meliodas creates many clones of himself that each have HALF the combat class of the previous iteration. Yet they all have around the same speed. Even though by your own argument they should each be far slower than the other consecutively. So your speed scale isn't supported if its based purely off of power increases since you didn't justify a linear speed increase. Also, even your high ball calc is not even close to the speed I scaled Asta in my old Asta speed scale that is severely outdated due to the massive power and speed progression that happened since then. ua-cam.com/video/eIL-izas3wY/v-deo.html
5. You seem so mad over this. Let's say I grant you that the moon and stars in Dorothy's realm are just bullshit (steelman, I still disagree with what you are saying), she still created an infinite space.
You are talking to a wall right now. I know this. Just because I didn't mention it in the video because it wasn't needed. You don't need to show every piece of evidence to argue that Meliodas is solar system level. It's like you are acting like I didn't give Meliodas Solar System due to lack of evidence, even though I gave him the meta because I know the evidence.
Yes, I do know how the star metas function. I didn't feel the need to justify every single point that supports it. Its funny how YOU are saying I don't understand the star meta even though you don't even realize that we've literally seen a star in the demon realm. Yet you're arguing based off light from the moons to justify a star?
I certainly know the Chandler True Night. Considering the Izraf with darkness power was able to make an eternal night by warping space-time, you can say that Chandler is doing something similar. I'm not saying it doesn't mean he's not doing what you're saying, it's just not as supported as you think. These are all things I was going to mention as supporting evidence for when I do a Seven Deadly Sins focused power scale on my channel (Meliodas or Escanor video). Video was too long to simply cover everything, just as I didn't get to cover everything for Asta.
6. It does. She is literally responding to Magna's "not possible" claim by saying "here in Glamour World, the impossible is possible." The answer is absolutely not cryptic. Luck claims the realm is endless, Magna says that's not possible, and the creator of said spell affirms it.
"She could be saying that to fuck with them." Yeah, you literally have no argument to counter it. This argument can be used for literally anything in both series to downplay the fuck out of them.
7. Yes infinite CAN mean "Great." But the "infinite power" statements hold a lot more weight when they scale above Dorothy who creates an infinite space.
8. SO many people say that Chaos created the universe. actually surprised you don't see people saying this.
9. Very high level. Asta's regeneration negation has worked on people who have resistance regen neg. Jack's magic has regeneration negation, as it had just adapted to Fana's Pheonix robe that was strong enough to regenrated her upper torso from being pulverised. Also, Jack's magic could neg Dante's initial level of regen. But once he went full power he couldn't actually negate the regen like he could before, even though Dante says that anti-magic can. So yeah, Asta's regeneration negation works on people who have resistance to regen negation. Nothing implies Estarossa's hearts were destroyed. Hell, we don't even see his body being destroyed. He is literally taking the attack and then takes an additional commandment. Its stated that if you are strong enough you can break out of the dimension.
10. There were many other statements and feats for Asta that I left out. I nor most people believe that every little thing needs to be stated in one single video. (especially since I gave Meliodas the High-Universal scaling in the video anyways) And no, Purgatory is never to have been stated to be created by Chaos. Nor is it implied. Simply being a chaotic realm (definitially it was chaotic with a lower case "c") doesn't mean it was made by Chaos. Is it possible? yes. But nothing about it is concrete.
Like how when Demon Lord threw moons and planets down at the Seven Deadly Sins because he created a Multi-Solar System sized realm, so he can totally do that. Oh wait, he didn't do that. But just as that's not an argument to debunk his scaling, neither does it debunk anything to do with Dorothy's scaling. @@josephvaccariello4181
@@Br0ku I think another way to look at Meliodas's scaling is to look at how the realm works. Such as how when there is either too much power or too much power concentrated (So in few amount of people *DK and TMF Meli*) the realm would be destroyed. But we don't know enough about what causes the realm to collapse, if it is from too much concentrated power, too much power in the realm in general, or maybe the realm was made with less power than what currently resided in the realm. If we assume Chaos made the regular realm than we can assume that TMF Meli x 2 would be at a similar power level to an unknown amount of power. So we can't really tell for sure since we have no idea how much power it took to make the realm. But if Chaos made the realm and we assume the realm has stars, moons, galaxies, and a whole universe then you could scale Meliodas to =>universal, but that with the DK and TFM, so the most I think you could scale him is to galaxy or higher but lower than universal. But that is just speculation because we do not know enough about chaos and or how he created these realms and how they function and collapse. Also like you said Chaos was born from stars, meaning Meliodas could scale lower to Galaxy or lower since he is obviously not stronger than Chaos but it is hard to say cause we don't actually know Chaos's limits or abilities much. But honestly after probably over an hour of being on this video, I'd have to say Asta wins. I don't really think it is cause Asta is "So much stronger" I just think it happens to be a bad match up for Meliodas since Asta's abilities are the perfect counter to pretty much all his powers. Another thing is if dark (Meliodas's dark in particular) is magic, than why wouldn't Merlin just use Absolute Cancel on his AM Dark when he was losing control. And why hasn't Merlin ever uses her Absolute Cancel to cancel any dark attached to a demon. We could possibly assume Asta can negate his dark by simply cutting through it, but I don't think its something that would just simply be destroyed, while I think projectiles of dark are considered magic the dark on the Meliodas's body I'm not sure about but I see why your claims on it are valid. Also what is considered magic, because in SDS anything created is magic since it was all created by the magic of the Demon King and Supreme Deity and Chaos created them. But it is hard to say because Chaos has reality manipulation and I don't know if you'd consider that magic or not, or anything created by Chaos is magic. But it is definitely something to think about. But in all honesty a lot of this could be wrong or put into bad wording because I've been up for over 24 hours atm and I haven't watched BC or SDS in a while nor read the mangas so I'm going off what you said mostly other than a lot of the SDS stuff. So if it sounds like im talking out of my ass i might be rn lowkey faded
@@reallord_prestonian5184 you can just argue darkness is resistant to power null or it was too strong for her to cancel out. Sorry I can’t respond to everything you said I’m busy doing homework rn. I might stream later and discuss the topic of this video
Personally I don't like the idea of stockpiling Meliodas' powers like this since it's giving him powers that he realistically shouldn't have. Also I do believe that Dorothy Unsworth's "Glamour World" is more of a hax base ability that doesn't 100% correlates to her actual AP.
Yeah but it’s a weird thing that a lot of 7DS fans do. Everytime you mention him in a vs battle they bring up composite Meliodas. As for Dorothy, even if you said she only partially scaled to it at 10%. 10% of infinity is still High-Uni. But I do believe I provided fair amount of evidence that she does scale to it.
@@Br0ku I do understand your point on the matter about Dorothy's "Glamour World" but I just I don't feel like it doesn't make sense you know.
Here's how I see it. Outside of her Glamour World, she's probably really physically and magically weak (but still MFTL+, she caught Yami) and would probably be the WEAKEST captain by far. INSIDE her Glamour World she scales to whatever she wants because it's HER world. Her magic power is a dream that is essentially just an alternate dimension she creates. Within that space she is high universal, because her power allows herself within the confines of Glamour World to essentially become god of it. Outside of it, she does not scale to that because she can't exert god-like power outside of Glamour World. That's basically how her magic works. Weak outside of her world, god within it. But since everything inside it is REAL, like it has all the chemical compositions and sizes and such, you can use real scaling inside the world such as Yami using Dimension Slash to destroy an infinite space.@@jordandavilabrown294
@@Br0ku bro finally used the uni meta for Black clover, W broku
@@weatherreport3249 So she's a fodder without her hax ? compared to other Guys
Meliodas would be a great sword and martial arts teacher for asta.
That’s really all asta is missing right now to perfect his fighting style.
His sword skills have improved significantly. When he faught liebe he depicted everything he learned from all of his teachers. And after going to Japan he got even better. 7 deadly sins sword style is very European, while their is a range in BC.
Why would asta get taught by someone weaker?
@@tjfnbr3870power ain’t everything, Goku still had learn from people weaker than him right up to super
@@JDWalker495 asta can't learn Amy techniques or style from him he alr has zetten
I think we're forgetting that Meli is a Demon, and when times are dire he can sacrifice six of his seven hearts to enter Indura mode which should tip the scales in his favor
ik but asta has true devil union if he uses it the fight is over instantly'
That's only a select few demons that can use that. Meliodas has no evidence of being able to use that
@@JonasRosadoI'm pretty sure it's said that the demon needs a power level of over 50000 and they need to know the ritual
@@JonasRosadobro meliodas is highest ranked demon it’s stated that high level demons with power levels over 50000 can transform Mel probably turn Indra when he was a toddler
@@t1red268mel the son of the demon king devils and demons are practically the same in this one
Asta's demon slayer sword would be very useful in Kimetsu no yaiba.
Meliodas is a leader figure from the beginning. Asta wants to be in a leader position.
Why are you absolutely fucking everywhere 😐😐😐
Well Meliodas has been alive for thousands of more years pretty dumb debate
Asta doesn't sexually harass people nor does he groom kids
@@irrelevanttroll3312 bro the whole 7ds show is just grooming, sexual assault and shitty power scaling, the story was amazing, but was ruined by the animation, i dont usually judge any anime because of the animation because i dont notice it, but for 7ds, i couldnt ignore it
@@phi_ho6114 fr man
it was so uncomfortable
i don't think meliodases counters would be useless since it's been established multiple times that anti magic itself is a form of energy and with verse equalization it should be able to be reflected
but that's just my opinion. (not that it would change the outcome much)
Verse Equalization equalizes magic and Mana. Not Anti-Magic. As Verse equalization equates the main energy systems of each verse.
But still, Meliodas wouldn't be fast enough to use it.
@@Br0ku Wrong as noted full counter can reflect natural lightning a natural energy. He can reflect any energy not just strictly magical energy. Doesnt meliodas also have like a technique where he attacks somebody and blitzes them with 1000 attacks very early on? Like the people he uses this on massively upscale to weak holy knights who can react to lightning casually meaning just that technique makes him several hundreds of times faster then light if he can use it to blitz a lightning timer.
@josephvaccariello4181 hey br0ku went and found the chapter you mentioned. the lightning meli full countered was a magical attack. im too lazy to confirm this but thats also how i remembered it going. and where is it stated meli can full counter any energy and not just magic?
@josephvaccariello4181 and also im no scientist but i dont think lightning timers equate to light speed timers. i could be wrong on that though but ide want to make sure before stating that.
@@josephvaccariello4181 he mentioned that technique in the video
Meliodas even at the beginning of the series is FTL, it's confirmed Gilthunder himself moves faster than the stroke of lightning itself and he can make himself move even faster, then even while buffed later on Meliodas far outscales him..in the manga Meliodas intercepted a bolt of lightning before it could touch the ground, and he's millions to billions of times faster because for example, a later form of base Meliodas scales above Zeldris, Zeldris can attack fast enough a Goddess who's ability makes them able to teleport cannot touch him, even though they're relative power level wise, then you have a feat where Ban can keep up with DK Meliodas with all Commandments which is much stronger than anyone else at that point, and Meliodas post Purgatory is even faster and stronger than that without any Commandments or transformations, to the point he one shots the Demon King..also Cath and anyone who scales to them might be faster and stronger than people say they are, Meliodas scales to Arthur who has full access to Chaos itself and he's even stronger at the very end of the story, to the point he single handedly can stop Arthur and Merlin as a duo with full access to Chaos and manipulation of physics, and time as well..Merlin is confirmed to be able to manipulate time, which is why she doesn't age..and Meliodas is unaffected by frozen time as well...
im no powerscaler or even someone whos good at debating but something "im not sure what exactly" doesnt sit right with me here. i feel like meli was downplayed because 7ds manga doesnt state its feats as much as it just shows them if that makes sense. so from a power scalers perspective i can understand how he would seem slower or weaker but my gut is telling me physically and speed wise he would have the upper hand. but asta would have the uper hand when it comes to magic/anti magic abilities. so i would honestly think the fight would be much closer than this video made it seem. but thats just my opinion based on how i view the characters not powerscaling
lightning and light are 2 different elements
@@wuuhnnnelements no but they are different things. Regardless of that, blatantly outspeeding lightning and hitting it before it hits the ground from a distance puts him above lightspeed
@@JonasRosadolol okay
It took 5-7 seconds for the spear to reach meli 7.3 miles away, and 4-6 to go back to Gil, that’s not light speed. It’s a lil under Mach 5 going to meli and a lil over Mach 5 going back. By the lightning logic luck is the fastest character in the bc existence but he’s not. Meli can reach FTL fasho but MFTL+ I’m not sure. A sleeping asta dodged a light speed attack in his sleep and it’s to be believed that in the entrance exam he moved at Mach 4 to reach sekke in a fifth of a second before knowing to use his powers
Meliodas wins.
Asta can cut through magic but Meliodas' body and darkness matter are physical and not magic. Demons could still heal and use darkness while having 0 magic. Galand for example got cut through half but could retach itself using darkness.
Meliodas is very durable. He tanked a slash from DK Zeldris across his chest but only got a small cut.. I don't see Asta easily cutting Meliodas through half. He should be physically stronger than DK Zeldris to easily cut Meliodas in half.
Only advantage Asta could be speed but Mel is too durable, strong, better stamina etc.
If Asta gets tagged with great force, it's game over.
You got this from Reddit???
Meliodas's base cooking abilities would solo the Black Clover verse no cap🧢
charmi would still eat it
Aww, man, i wanna support Powersclaing-Youtubrs but havent
watched the Franchise of Aster yet... also Seven Deadly
Sins is kinda hilariously bad.
yeah seven deadly frames is ass but asta wins because anti magic cuts through commandments@@loturzelrestaurant
@@JahWoooooooThat is not how that works
yh it is verse equilisation@@Soul.Resonant
Meliodas will win. I think you downplayed him, while highballing Asta. Asta could react to light attacks only thanks to ki sence, so he isn't near to light speed in the beginning
If you use uni meta scale, when you should remember, that Merlin does have infinite power, and she states that assualt mode Meliodas will murdrer her and other members of sins squad. She also use infinity to amp her attacks against Chandler, but he was completely fine after them. Merlin states that he and Kuzak are impossibly strong, impossibly durable, impossibly fast. And Meliodas in base after purgatory would walk them down like nothing
Also, i don't think Asta can negate commandments. He had some troubles with normal curses and this curses are created by the demon god himself
And also, talking about demon king, he is conceptual being. His presence effect the balance of mortal plane as well, plus he got powers to do something against Chaos, which is stated to be light and darkness itself
About Chaos, it is drive of the power, that spawned among stars. So basically it is mind of power, and power itself was existing before it got mind. Also Chaos create Purgatory, which is easily uni feat
And about curses. They did not regenerate after first destruction. Merlin respell them. So hes ability to earse is actually powerful. He can earse conceptual being, curses that manipulate fate. Asta isn't anywhere near to that
In conclusion, i think u downplayed Meliodas. While Asta with his power ups will be uni +, Meliodas will be equal to that in base and with true magic he will obliterate Asta neg dif
asta was already ftl in the beginning, wdym? he didnt know how to sense ki until the fight against patry, and yet he still has ftl feats before that
you literally just downplayed asta and highballed meliodas
but i do not know since i dont watch 7ds
@@wuuhnnn I clearly remember first 60 episodes of black clother and like hell he is somewhere near to light there
@@hellothere2460 bro watched white leaf
To me meliodas is the Uber prodigy who never had to try while asta was someone who had to relentlessly fight hard and push his limits in order to achieve his power.
This is even shown in the narrative with meliodas gaining his greatest boosts in power when he starts letting more out of him and chooses to use his power.
While characters like Yami constantly push the tagline of breaking your limits. And asta is shown training almost daily
Meliodas was already born as the strongest character in the series. His training was to CONTROL his power, not to increase it. Him accidentally unleashing his wrath destroyed an entire kingdom off the map once.
@@moahammad1mohammadhe definitely was not. He had the potential to be the strongest but he still needed help to beat the demon king not to mention that choas and Arthur are much more powerful than meliodas
@@moahammad1mohammad Nah, Escanor was always stronger. Just ask him and he'll tell you. As long as he believes it, it is true. Escanor's powers rely entirely on how arrogant he is.
@@JonasRosadoAuthur is NOT more powerful than Meliodas. In the Four Knights of the Apocalypse, Authur invaded Britannia and tried to kill the four knights himself. He was VISIBLY SCARED and RETREATED once he met Meliodas on the battlefield. He MAY be more powerful than Meliodas, but definitely nowhere near powerful enough to put him down.
@@ShwappaJ Didn't Meliodas one shot the one Escanor when they first met
I love Asta but I highly disagree. There’s no way asta is winning this. Meliodas’s experience in combat alone scales him far above Asta in terms of battle prowess. There was even a point where Meliodas couldn’t even exist in the mortal realm without the world being destroyed.
I also want to emphasize that Asta as of now has no feat compared to causing the destruction of that scale by his mere existence
@@bobbyoriaikhi3272 he actually does. Meliodas was in the world for awhile and he didn’t even destroy Britannia, let alone the world.
@@Br0ku That’s not true although I don’t exactly remember how they managed to stop that from happening the demon king did explicitly say at one point that Melinda’s would not be able to last a full day on the human world
@@bobbyoriaikhi3272 because Meliodas gave up his powers. And it is true.
@@Br0kuthe reason why Britannia was almost destroyed is because meliodas was stronger than the demon king and Zeldris also and because 2 demon kings which like you said before and it's not because meliodas was there for so long
Is Asta strong enough to tank Meliodas's bad cooking? Not even Escanor managed that
funny video idea
Hmm Natsu couldn't survive bad cooking
So i doubt Asta
But maybe Luffy can tank it?
@@irrelevanttroll3312Goku solos 🥱
@@Soul.Resonant hmm agreed but
We talking about the magic trio
@@irrelevanttroll3312Luffy is a bad cook himself.
Dorothy doesn’t scale to her glamour world nor does yami cutting through it because they are both hax abilities asta is planetary high ball and FTL you can also scale meliodas around that level i think asta has the edge
Ya glamour world dose not make her a universal. It’s like saying gojo from jujitsu kisen is universal because invite void has been stated to be a space with no end. On top off that 2 of the 4 arch angles can do that too because they made there own pocket universe where the target was always in range of their power and that power was always active even without their input but that dosnt make them universal nor dose it make esstarossa universal for breaking it all.
Hax abilities like that can’t be used to scale a character, they can be used to say” hey this ability is really strong so it make the character more likely to win a fight” but it can’t be used to say the characters is this strong because breaking cutting through space means you your a galaxy breaker it just means your power bypasses that rule
Finally some one who understands the difference between hax and actual power
I know it’s just a stupid anime discussion but saying dorafi (I forgot how to spell her name) is a universal character because she has glamor world is such a leap in logic it hurts my head. Don’t get me wrong I find it to be a cool hax ability but it’s just that a hax, she doesn’t scale off her world.
I feel stupid on how annoyed I feel about it 🤣🤣
I can't see Asta win.. Everything Asta is good at, Meliodas does way better
Man, the way Glamour World can be interpreted, Broku can basically never lose against anyone. God Bless him for using it so well.
Based Broku Flowchart:
1) Is the Enemy Universal AP?
(a). Yes = Universal Glamour World Calc
(b). No = Move to #2
2. Is the Enemy Galaxy Level?
(a) Yes = Galaxy Glamour World Calc
(b) No = Move to #3
3. Is the Enemy Solar System AP?
(a) Yes = Solar System Glamour World Calc Stacking
(b) No = Enemy Loses
There are a lot of characters that are way stronger than that
There are characters that see universal AP as weak. Like Goku and Galactus , Archie sonic. Eternity, Living tribunal, Perpetua ECT.
@@nicholasaugello2534 exactly
@@nicholasaugello2534Goku has no universal ap 💀
@@urielpaya2335 *looks at battle of the gods* I’m sorry, WHAT?!
This is the death battle we should’ve gotten!
Can make a video on Noelle and mimosa’s powers and how they stack up to the other ladies of black clover?
22:50 You know that’s actually a very good question.
Please do an asta vs natsu video in the future!
This was a great video!
I will do Asta vs Natsu
@@Br0ku cool!
@@Br0ku pls do it because many people say that nastu fire/dragon magic can burn asta anti magic which dosen't make sense
Fun fact: seven deadly sins has a continuation series named "4 knights of the apocalype." And, after seeing how strong meliodas is in his base form against king arthur, i unfortunately have to disagree on this one.
I’ve read it. I don’t think there is sufficient evidence that Chaos Arthur is as strong as True Magic Meliodas, which is why i used TM version in the video.
In the end that doesn't take away all the counters asta has it he is definitely much stronger in knights of the apocalypse but not strong enough to close the gap
This guy is biased as hell.
The scaling of the magically created world i would have to say is clear wank. Looking at the story critically, everything you said is technically correct, but obviously thinking with authors intent and narrative purpose in mind, it’s obviously not meant for her to be creating full solar systems/universes.
The supreme diety and demon king on the other hand are mean to be godlike figures.
They defeated and sealed “chaos” who created the actual real universe they live in from nothing, meaning at least together they have the power to defeat a universe creating being. and narratively them having “supreme power” it’s obviously their purpose in the story.
Meanwhile the woman you mentioned is late story fodder. I dont even remember her name.
No thats not how scalling works ,you have show the feat or the author directly saying it ,creation doesn't equate to Dc or Ap lol
@@powerscallingfiend i agree, i used “creation” because the feat that he named in the video involved the girl from black clover creating a world and then it being destroyed.
I still think Asta won’t be able to defeat Sandro with armor of the dammed and black orb. Just saying. Oh also hand of death from the 4th.
Bro do you realize that if you're resistant to something, it means that it still works but only to a certain extent right ?
That depends on the resistance
personally i think it could go either way depending on what version of each character you use, i just hate when the 7DS fans bring up immortality even tho we are using demon king meli who doesnt have it, but either way its just debatable to how you scale or how you want to view the outcome, stan lee once said that the outcome of the fight is always up to the writer
Bro you have no idea how often I search this on UA-cam just to see if someone had made a comprehensive video on this match up just purely for entertainment, and now all I need is Asta Vs Ichigo done by you and my life is complete.
Well I’m glad :)
ichigo slams asta
@@trexderfneither way I just want a definitive video out there for my two favorite goats
@@RaltsGuardian nah but I like black clover over bleach
Ichigo is cooking bro and soloing his verse
And of course I'm at work when it drops
He’s not killing perfect cell even if you don’t use the universe Meta The solar system in dragon ball is actually a nebula that is comprised of a infinite amount of stars, which is why the cosmetology, even if you ignore the fact that some of the movies are canon in the anime, not the manga even lowest meta of power is ridiculous
After seeing how you predicted Sukuna beating Gojo I’ve learned to never question you
I’ve been wrong before!
Dude...that's the easiest prediction ever
People were even saying
"We know he has to die...but how?"
LOL that was years ago
@@marcioamaral7511 first I’m hearing of it. All I heard was Gojo the goat and Sukuna the fraud
@@randomgamer625
You must be new to the fandom
@@marcioamaral7511 Nah I’ve been reading JJK since Shibuya and I always read the comments after finishing the manga. And currently we have a lot of coping and F in chat
The video we've all been waiting for. Broku has blessed us.
Thanks for watching
All Hail Broku!!!
20:09 that was stated by the wizards who have no reason to know a lot of shit about Chaos
especially when other, more concrete information contradicts what they say
Meliodas at his lowest would wreck Asta 😅
Absolutely not 🤣
@@Br0ku1000% He would
@@ExtortionMan how?
@@Br0ku i wouldnt say base meli wins bc he doesnt. but overall meli definitely wins. not only does he outmatch asta is strength attributes he also has more exp, and alot of stuff meli has are not magic based so asta cant counter them. meli in his weakest form is alr ftl base season 2 btw but eos meli is atleast mftl with calcs. now ap if we wanna keep it consistent they are both continental maybe even multi continental but i got meli bc he has better win cons.
@@Sakura_is_her downplaying both and what abilities aren’t magic?
melidas and cath dont scale to laid of the lake who has infinte magic chaos created everything in the world with a thought so laid of the lake should not even scale to arms worth of chaos since the lake was supper powerd with the excess magic power from the sins final attack which is making meliodas thousand to hundreds of times stronger than laidof the lack which makes mel power levels beyond standerd infinte up scaling mel uni power
As I said in the video, a lot of stuff had to be left out of the video for BOTH characters. Many abilities were left out for both Asta and Meliodas. I just tried to focus on their most important abilities. There was one major correction I wanted to put in as well as an addendum.
1. Existence Erasure True Magic Meliodas:
I expanded a lot more in the original script, but it just shouldn't work on Asta. We already know that this is limited Existence Erasure, as Meliodas used True Magic on Elizabeth's reincarnation curse and it still regenerated twice. Furthermore, Meliodas's existence erasure is heavily implied to be power-based. Meliodas even says in 306, "I happened to become powerful enough to do it." In reference to erasing the curses. Not only that, but to actually erase the Demon Lord, a character far weaker than him, as stated in chapter 332, he needed to sacrifice all of his True magic power to do so. If Meliodas needs to sacrifice all of his true power to erase someone far weaker than him, then I don't think it's working on Asta who would be surrounded in power-null armor and far stronger than him. Or Meliodas needs to charge up all of his power in order to do EE at all (which likely won't work because of how much faster Asta is. Don't think he's going to stand there and take it.)
2. Demon Realm is bigger than I thought:
Much of the scaling notes I used for the script started over a year ago. But a few months ago chapter 107 released and added more evidence that there are stars in the demon realm sky, actually making it a multi-solar system sized realm at the bare minimum (this was pointed out in the comments, thanks for that). This would upscale Demon Lord and thus, Meliodas to far above Multi-Solar System Level if you are using the creation meta. I still don't think it really changes the outcome, but that does make Meliodas a tier higher.
As I said in the video, I am working on an addendum that is members-only. I will also be doing a stream where some of those things will be discussed as well. The original script was 45 minutes which I cut down to 37 minutes, then cut it down to 29 minutes, and finally 25 minutes. A lot more scaling, abilities, justifications, and scenarios were mentioned in the original. I am weary of doing longer scaling videos as most of the longer ones haven't performed well.
Please do a mashle video🙏🙏🙏
you did this great
i think you miss one crucial detail of this match up asta never won a major fight on his own lmao
@@RomantikongGinoo I think your missing a point with that logic Goku did not beat many fights on his own that did not take away from his feats now dose it he still has the feats to prove he scales far higher in the end
@@doriankamanzi6874 what does goku have to do in this fight hahahaha and besides his opponents are on multi verse level above this is why asta v meliodas is mismatch asta have too much plot armor if asta is moving lightspeed in his devil union mode then dante has beyond lightspeed reaction time coz he was able to block and dodge astas atack? and even counter
That scaling is flawed in three points. The simplest first. Scaling speed is almost always wrong when using light speed as a base. What is the speed of light in the given fictional worlds? Is it the same? Is it different? Is light speed even constant in the fictional world? Is magic light different to non magic light? Best example is lightspeed in dragon ball. First of all in dragon ball the fans always make the mistake to set the statement faster than the eye and faster than light as equal. It's not. In fact dragon ball specifically has infinite lightspeed or a higher light speed than in our world. In Dragon ball they primarily use their eyes in a fight? It's proven by the constant successful usage of sun attack. They might be faster than our speed of light but there is no way that they are faster than in universe light speed. In black clover and seven deadly sins we have magical perception that is faster than speed of light. In these worlds the charters might be faster than the light in their universe but it is impossible to know how fast that is. Never compare speed feats based on light speed.
The other flaw is that you compared universal power to domain specific power. Dorothy has god like power in her own dream world and she can create everything there. What she can't do is take something out of that space and use it in the normal world. Her power is bound to her domain, her dream world. The Demon king who created the demon realm on the other hand doesn't has this limitations. Everything created in his realm works perfectly in other worlds too. Problem is, that doesn't even matter. Creation doesn't transfer to strength. Again, an example from dragon ball. The kaioshin are basically the gods of creation in Dragon ball. They are the counter parts to the gods of destruction. In dragon ball it is easy to see that having the power of creation doesn't make them strong in any way.
Progressive scaling and cross character feat scaling doesn't work. A beats B and C beats A doesn't mean C beats B. This always leads to false assumptions. Applying arbitrary multipliers because of training and time progression doesn't work too
it's actually not flawed, at all. In fact, it is your own logic that is.
Using Dragon Ball to debunk Black Clover speed is already a fallacy. For two, just because light speed can be different in some fictional worlds doesn't mean anything. Again, some fictional worlds having different speeds of light is meaningless. Its an appeal to possibility that is a logical fallacy.
Absolutely wrong. We've seen things created in the Glamour World be taken out of and used in the real world. This also wouldn't be an argument anyways. Creation feats can scale to strength. You can't just cart blanche that creation feats don't scale when it logically wouldn't make sense to exclude them. Again, you are using a different verse. Bringing up gods of destruction from dragon ball are absolutely meaningless when it comes to determining black clover creation feats.
This is probably your worst point. We use A < B
@@Br0ku I didn't debunk Black Clover speed but your method of scaling wit Dragon Ball. It is not possible to scale speed feats if there is no similar metric and light speed is not a similar metric. You scaled Astas and Meliodas speed based on the speed of light in their respective universes without even discussing if light speed inside their universe is constant. That doesn't work. Let's take the fight of Rhya and Mereoleona as an example. Rhya is able to move at light speed because of the light magic he copies. Should don't really look like beeing at the same speed. Even if that's the case and Rhya is able to move at the speed of light as well as his attacks, Mereoleona keeping up with that speed doesn't give her FTL feats. Rhya doesn't think at light speed. There is a delay in him seeing Mereoleona move. Than he has to make a decision to use his magic to evade, he need to activate the magic and than the lightspeed movement starts. For Mereoleona to bliz Rhya she doesn't need to be faster than light. She has to be faster than Rhya can react and this is slower than light speed. For dodging an attack at light speed it is the same. Mereolena has magic perception that let's her predict the moves of the enemy. She doesn't need to dodge faster than light, she needs to dodge fast enough to outspeed Rhyas perception and prediction of her movement. That speed is slower than light speed. That is basically what I meant with the Dragon ball argument. People confuse "faster than the eye" with "faster than light". Black Clover has many examples for abilities that let's you predict an attack before seeing that attack, be it an effect of mana zone or the reading of ki. Not even can we compare light speed between different universes, we can't scale movement based on attacks that use light speed unless we see a character running next to an attack like this.
What creation from the dream world was used in the real world? Maybe I forgot but I don't think she did that. It would break basically everything in Black Clover. With magic like this she could reproduce every non magical object and create unlimited money, food and resources for the kingdom. When did she do it and what are her limits than? Can she even create a real planet? She needs to be able to imagine the object she wants to create. Would she be able to imagine a star in enough details to create them or is she only able to create a huge hot fire ball or a sun in the very distance like she knows the sun?
For the last part, how is it not arbitrary how you put Astas speed at 188c than applied a multiplier that you just put at 4 because of a dictionary, than you take magna into account as faster than that because I don't know, scale Dante based on Magna, than you make the assumption that mana and speed scales linear to each other which is completely wrong and than you come back to Asta and say he is faster than dante and come to the conclusion that Asta is a few hundred thousand times the speed of light. Sorry but that's not how it works. If you compare Mana to pure Energy which is a valid assumption the energy for becoming faster is not linear. I would guess air resistance is a thing in black clover. Air resistance is goes up by the power of 2 when increasing the speed. Taking asta base to black mode with a power multiplier of 4 would lead to an increase in speed by 2. The increase of 500 times in power from dante would translate to a speed increase of around 22. Applying that to every multiplier you used makes Asta much slower. Than again, I don't even know if he is at light speed at all because of the arguments before.
That's where you are wrong. There is a metric. Its called light. Light moves at the speed of light. In other verses it CAN move differently. You are APPEALING TO POSSIBILITY that baseline light speed can be different in both verses using the logic of other verses. That doesn't work here, as my argument is the more probable one. yours is ultimately moot. You must have missed the times where she literally moves faster than him and faster than light itself. Mereoleona is easily Faster than light in the elf saga. The calculation in the video is HER MOVING faster than the light.
Sally tricks Reve into making glasses for her and then she brings the glasses into the real world. You saying that she can bring about infinite currency is wild because that would crash the global economy in Black Clover and it is highly in doubt that Dorothy would want to do that. In the manga, the water that Dorothy creates is chemically identical to water. So the moons/stars she creates in glamour world would also be the real thing.
Lol, I don't think you have a clue what arbitrary means. The reason 4 is used for many is because the definition of "Several" is "More than two but less than many."
2 < several < Many. Which means that it means at least 4. So four is the lowball for "many". Not arbitrary. I didn't make the assumption that magic and speed scale linear to each other. It's literally how it is portrayed in the manga to work. If you paid attention to any of my videos, Zora's traps double the power of magic thus doubling the speed. It's literally stated that he doubles magic power, and in turn, that doubles speed. That's how the power system for Black Clover Works. Air resistance is going to be bunk in that debate.
@@hackfleischking5162
@@Br0ku watch that fight again. There is not a single move in the fight where she has to go faster than light. She can predict every attack from him just by reading the mana and his movements. To catch up with him isn't that hard while moving at light speed. Every time he does it he needs time for orientation because all senses aside from some magical perceptions don't work while moving at light speed. If she predict his landing spot she can start moving while his magic activates and has time to punch him while his senses take in the new position. A few times speed of sound depending on the distance he moves is enough for that.
Oh yeah there was that thing with the glasses. Watch it again. They are there in the moment the dream world breaks but when they land outside of dream world they are gone. It is episode 112 if you want to look it up. Her creations will vanish in the real world. They are still gone in the next episode.
Where is it stated that double the magic is double the speed? What is in the manga is that his trap throws back an incoming attack with double the speed and power. The part with double the magic is never stated by anyone who knows how magic works. The one saying that it doubles the magic and throws it back is asta, who doesn't know how magic works. In contrast, Mimosa stated that setting up traps like this must take very much time and a huge amount of mana. That's all we really know. The huge amount of man mimosa talks about could be any amount. Where else should the magic come from? It can't double the amount of mana out of no where. If it took all night to prepare the traps it is save to assume that he had to put the extra amount of magic inside the trap, or even more. Unless you can provide the chapter where Zora says it doubles the magic and that doubles power and speed, the statement is completely wrong. Zora didn't say it
asta vs meliodas is everybody favorite match up but my favorite match up for asta is sougo tokiwa aka kamen rider zio both are kinda has more connections like being orphans at a young age and was adopted by a foster family ( the orphange from hage village and sougo uncle) both are dense kindhearted and kinda stupid( no hate there) both had the impossble dream that everyone won't belive them( asta wanting to be the wizard king even without any magic and sougo wanting to be a king even in the modern world) both won't give up their dream but until they discover
they had a dark power in them ( asta having anti magic and sougo having ohma zio power) and both get new power in every hardship and gets respect by their peers ( asta to magic knight captain and sougo to past kamen rider) and both lost someone to they love in front of them ( gauche and geiz) by their villian( dante and swarzt) and both fight their inner demons and accept them ( asta fought and befriend liebe and sougo fought ohma zio to stop his fate but in the end both agree to reset the world so everyone can be alive and happy)
20:30 this isn’t true you completely neglected to mention the sacred tree scaling.
The sacred tree created a space time( the fairy realm) so it’s Uni +. low level demons are capable of significantly damaging the sacred tree.
Such as the red demon via purgatory fire, and the Albion demon that was stated was going to physically destroy the tree.
Beginning of series King using his full power one shotted that same Albion.
So beginning of series king is already on that level of power. You saying it only comes from the high tiers is wrong.
Broku i think that AM is Anti-energy but it can controled, we know energy can not destroyed or created but anti energy destroy it we also mana is also energy and usiing that energy people gain magic power and do magic. In real world we know that anti matter exist and there are some theory so i think tabata took some inspiration from it and created anti energy and i also think that it was astaroth plan to create an ultimare weapon to fight against those who gain great power and those who immortals and kill them
Just got done watching black clover and have some info on the chapters after the anime. Just started watching 7DS, meliodas probably isn’t even 20% of his power I’m assuming that’ll he’ll have in later episodes. Just already seeing what meli is capable of, I find it extremely difficult to see a world where meli doesn’t easily curb stomp asta. You forgetting the skill component as well, meli seems to be on an entire different level skill wise and has hundreds of years of exoerince on asta. Plus I don’t even think their physical strength is comparable. Just 10 episodes in, meli has accomplished physical feats that far out pass anything asta has done even at the very end of the anime. Unless I’m missing something big in the manga, I don’t even see how this is a debate
I’ve been waiting for an In depth video on this fight for a long time I’m glad you gave us it
I dislike the fact that broku really said “yeah Asta loses to star level Naruto but whoops multi solar system meliodas” bro sold out 😔😔
How about you tell me when I said Asta loses to Star Level Naruto? Because I’d really like to know when I definitively said Asta loses to Naruto? 🤣
He never said that
Not goin lie this is why I love his channel he makes the topic I wanna see and he’s fair with his judgements
Nah. When it comes to naruto this man glazes the hokage with prejudice
@@Joey-Jdiit fine because after pain arc noruto system become imbalance and full paradox
hes putting every hokage above universal :\ @@volition7732
Meliodas and Asta are very similar characters, they both use demonic power, but the difference is that one has powerful magic and the other has anti-magic.
Nanatsu no Taizai X Black Clover.
asta is like a modern yugioh player, negate negate and negate
And meliodas is like a player whos traps get negated constantly due to the meta
Lets forget about magic physically meliodas is way stronger than asta wtf
Damn... well worth the wait. Although I expected it to be a bit closer ^^'
As you have started to look into StarRail, how about a video about Blade? I really like the character in-game and am interested in how he scales. Mereoleona vs Escanor, as a follow-up on this one could be great. And the Black Bulls joining the Grand Magic Games in Fairy Tail also may be a cool video xD
Thanks! Good ideas here 💪🏻
@@Br0ku thank you xD admittedly I first was considering Blade vs Sephiroth, because their style aligns very well, but I'm not super confident Blade would deal with Sephis hax well enough to make it interesting (although, in-character, Sephiroth does prefer swordsmanship)
They are not in the same league. Meliodas was able to slice a mountain in half without even tryhing at his weakest point ever.
Bringing up mountain level feats is so laughable
Lol
Broku be like Asta then everyone else be like "Who decided that!".
Just do the math. Liebe is inside the grimoire which is technically Asta's soul, and it is said that Liebe HATES demons, so Asta would be totally annihilated because according to Estarossa's commandment (which Meliodas has in this demon king form) it is said that " Everyone who harbors hatred in his presence loses the ability to hurt others." And the commandment says that hate does not need to be restricted to just the user, if he has any type of hate it is nullified.
@@PedroHenrique-ko8to already debunked in the video. Meliodas would need to have that specific commandment out for it to work. And it’s not going to work because the anti-magic will nullify it. And it wouldn’t make Asta powerless, just Liebe. Asta scales above Meliodas even without anti-magic. So, not even a win condition.
@@Br0ku ua-cam.com/video/PqToOLMU89k/v-deo.htmlsi=pJlX_SJ2wNH5hY9Z This video shows a better scale of meliodas, but it's not even that updated because it lacks the Chaos stuff
but in the 4koa manga meliodas was able to cut a moutain to pieces while fighting king arthur possessed by chaos, arthur also stated that if tristan did not get involved that he wouldve been seriously damaged.
While in base and holding back
Can Asta do this? No
asta wins lil bro@@-Arcueid_Brunestud-
The only thing Asta has going for him is the speed value and it is completely wrong
Can you do one again regarding Asta's MASSIVE new updates
As far as we’ve seen from Meliodas, he would still beat Asta fairly easily. But I’m not 100% caught up with Black Clover, so what’s happened that you consider to be massive updates?
Glad to see someone talk about the 7 deadly sins again
U forgot one thing I forgot who had it but someone had a full counter for physical atks
That’s Estarossa not Mel
Asta's anti magic wouldn't really work on Meliodas at all considering most of the abilities that he uses aren't magic because it was stated that the power that demons use aren't really magic.
Meliodas can also be scaled to Infinite 3D, possibly 4D because he was stated to surpass the Demon King over a decade prior to his current self who was is equals with the Supreme Goddess who created the Celestial Realm that was inspired by Heaven in religion making it Infinite 3D at minimum.
On the case of Meliodas not being fast enough, Meliodas has been shown multiple times to be incomparably faster than Escanor right now and even back then who was able to move in Zeldris' Ominous Nebula (when Merlin was not able to escape using Instant Teleportation) in his Base granting him Immeasurable speed. He can also be scaled to Immeasurable speed via scaling above Cath who was able to eat the concept of time.
Another concern is you saying that Meliodas could kill Cell with a single click which completely proves you have no idea how to scale Dragon Ball characters or you just have no idea about the Dragon Ball Cosmology.
where is it stated that darkness isn't magic?
@@Br0ku Pretty sure it was clearly stated in the manga that demons posses the 'Power of Darkness' which is a separate power from their magical abilities.
bro it being inspired by heaven doesn't mean anything.
Cath is not immeasurable speed.
Merlin's is inaccessible at best, and that but that's only if the attack moved faster than her teleportation (it didn't, only faster than her activation) and Black Clover has the same type of feats.
Where? If this is so obvious then tell me. Just because demons use darkness doesn't mean it's biological/not magical @@thegamerdude3363see
@@Br0ku If you were using your eyes properly, you would've clearly seen that I said in the manga, where Tf else would it be?
All of that just to forget that asta can only maintain his unite form for 10 minutes, even if he gets the edge in speed and strength he cant finish meliodas in 10 minutes, after that its over
I agree with all this, only I’d put them at planet Ap. Also further proof of magic equalization between BC and 7ds is they both come from the soul, as when Malascula ate Escanor’s soul his sunshine Grace burned her.
That's different though because it's a grace from the Supreme deity. The commandments affect goddesses negatively and graces do the same to demons
10:08 So even without anti-magic or null resistance, Asta would still be resistant to all of the 10 commandments? Most of them wouldn't even activate due to his personality, but others just would never activate because Asta is, like, the perfect match for Meliodas? Even Pacifism wouldn't have to activate because if, like you said, Meliodas only needs to be out cold for an hour for Asta to win under standard battle assumptions.
Even if Meliodas regenerates from Asta's attacks, he gets weaker the more damage he tanks. Even if any one of the commandments or even the Ruler activated and tried to effect Asta or his attacks, he has resistances to power null, mental attacks, physical attacks, pain, and he has anti-magic if needed.
The Ruler would only activate upon magic attacks or healing, but anti-magic is not magic. Even True Magic and existence erasure wouldn't do much against Devil Union Asta or even Black Asta because of his anti-magic. Why is this even a debated topic? Someone saying "Meliodas would utterly stomp Asta" only means that they weren't keeping up with the Black Clover manga or reading it at all.
Wait let me guess Asta basically can one shot him
Asta one-shotted Damnatio was so satisfying. Even if you expect things to happen it can still be very well done
reverse conter works on all attacks by the way but gearth vid i think meliodas should have won dough
So manga DU Asta with Zetten will one shot him
Base Zetten Asta possibly too
Base Asta speed blitz and one shot him
Bro gilthunder was dodging light attacks with a 3k power level if we split the power level to
Spirit 1000
Strength 1000
Magic 1000
And lets give true magic meli 900k which is probably not that high
Spirit 300k
Magic 300k
Strength 300k
Low ball meliodas is 3000× faster then light 🤓👍
Gilthunder’s lighting early series has been calced to be like supersonic because it took half a minute to travel seven miles or something like that. Average lightning speed is like 1/800 speed of light so it only makes him FTL
@@Br0kuthat's so untrue. His lightning is lightning speed, it's only the spear he threw was subsonic. Not his lightning magic in general
can you do natsu vs asta ? nice vid btw
Yes i will once I reread fairy tail
24:46 broku got my brothers screaming at me they calling black clover trash and everything 😅 just mad that black clover better
Oh no 💀
Since his father created the demon realm and he's stated to be stronger than him doesn't mean meliodas is universal ?
Demon realm, as far as I saw, never is stated to be a universe.
"Realm” is an archaic (old fashioned) way of referencing to an individual world or planet.
@@fallenstar3713 no, it's an old word for kingdom
Bro completly lost me when he said Dorothy was high universe lvl. What? I must be reading white clover by mistake.
The Death Battle should’ve been MELIODAS vs Asta and Deku vs Gon
Edit: Love the Fuego slander 😂
Deku vs Gon is a huge stomp, At least with Deku vs Asta there were connections and it made sense
Hopefully they still do it
@@Br0ku i dont think deathbattle is gonna scale meli correctly or scale asta correctly
@@marcierex4547 I don’t think they would.
@@tmakster7748there were personal similarities, but the power gap between verses is dimensions apart.
besides. I don't feel like Asta and Meliodas would fight each other anyway. They do have things in common
Broku
As I am the first🥇 to comment...
Give me money.
W
OKay so I'm commenting on the sds side because that's the series I'm familiar with.
First I'm not sure we can ever get a full gauge on Meliodas' power since he's either holding back for reasons or is nerfed in most if not all his encounters and with god form gone I doubt we ever will. Two, we don't know what Meliodas' actual inborn magic is. It's not existence erasure or anything like that. It's a complete unknown and something he's afraid to use, but it is separate (like how the ruler is for dk) from the power of a god, which was what he used to definitively destroy the personal curses and eradicate the commandments and is a feat that at minimum needed similarly level of god strength to pull off. Him erasing dk is just brute force power (my observation of this is that he didn't need all of his power to wipe out dk since he easily cleared him, but it was a useful way to get rid of it and stay in the human world). Could his real magic ability be strong enough to harm Asta? We currently don't know. As it is his full counter is basically a stop gap. Counter vanish seems to functionally be magic cancel.
As for the commandments, they're magic, tiny fractions of dk's power/energy, but at the same time I believe more than just that. Mostly because of how they've been used by dk. Something like his life force, kind of like horcruxes. It's why they're nigh impossible to destroy or have their effects lifted by conventional means. Why they are sentient. And why the demon king can fully regenerate from them with enough time if left alone. A commandment can't work by itself, so when the demon king's physical form was finished off they did nothing. Also I am pretty sure dk wasn't hanging out in two planes of existence. He just beamed the rest of himself from purgatory into whoever has all commandments and that's why when they were destroyed he was permanently dead. By your argument, at best Meliodas would have just permanently destroy half dk's power/being. Going off the description about causality break, Asta should be able to circumvent the curses if he's not completely debilitated.
It's annoying the curse effects weren't fully shown, and is mostly left up to interpretation. About the love, it's trigger conditions are broad: experience some form of hatred. It's not exclusive towards others. As long as you feel it at all, you're stun locked. Pretty sure this is how revenge counter was cancelled by Estarossa. Asta can still set this off and may be unable to move. I think pacifism can be sidestepped if it only pertains to intentional kills though we don't know it's range of activation, but there's a chance it could mean taking of ANY life. If so, even if Asta kills an animal or bug by accident during the fight it could trigger and drain lifespan near instantly, but since Asta is resistant maybe it shaves off only a small amount of time compared to his whole life. Inconsequential on it's own but can stack up fast. Not much to say about piety except that while Meliodas was cursed by it, he resisted the effects throughout the fight. The only way he could really shake it off though was by allowing himself to die, as noted by the demon king. Those three curses are the ones I really feel would impact the fight. My question is how many times can Asta use causality break? Nothing is stopping the curses from simply being repeatedly applied each time after they're removed.
Honestly, I wouldn't give Meliodas the commandments and the ruler at all tbh. It's the demon king's abilities (who ends up having inferior levels of power) and God Mel outstrips them so composite Mel seems unnecessary. We saw so little of it, but god form should be capable of whatever dk can do. If so, then Meliodas really wanted to maybe he could just recreate the curse's abilities under his own power and use them whenever, passive or not.
A note about tankiness, Estarossa stated that if he couldn't beat Sariel and Tarmiel he'd have pretty much no chance against Meliodas. Considering they just used an attack intended to physically destroy a demon at the molecular level to the point where they can’t regenerate on him and he came back from that, I think it's fair to say Meliodas is implied to at least be likely in this range of durability. Speed... just a can of worms all on it's own but Asta has much more concrete measurable speed here so gotta give it to him. Someone already corrected the hellblaze. Strength wise, well outside of what's in the video, one thing is he's been stated to have immeasurable grip strength (whatever that's worth) and is approaching Hawk Mama (Chaos) levels of power, something I don't even know how to scale since the thing spawns realm creating gods and turns reality into putty. Push comes to shove maybe include Indura usage as an unknown multiplier on top of that.
The Glamour World thing gave me pause. Dorothy sounds like a character who spawns a pocket universe and is universal within it due to dream/pocket reality manipulation but not outside of it in the actual physical world. Since she says the impossible is possible, I guess she can one shot the big bad of that series should she entrap them in the spell and think about ending him? Maybe it's just my lack of understanding of how the power works but automatically placing everyone stronger than her outside of that dream world to universal level seems like an incredible jump. Has anyone else even come close to that level of a creation/power feat or is she displaying an ability inconsistent with what the rest of the cast can pull off? As far as I'm aware creation feats don't always align with output of combat power. I also don't think having unlimited magical power necessarily scales someone to being universal, because if so a character like Merlin could also be considered universal through her Infinity which I just don't believe. She's dangerous and has access to infinite magic, but I don't believe every character that beats her to be universal as well.
In all, I'm not knowledgeable about Black Clover at all but I am about SDS and I have a good understanding of Meliodas' powers, which is why I believe he would have a better chance in a fight than what was presented. I'm not guaranteeing a win, but I am saying it's likely wouldn't be as one sided as it's made out to be here.
Fantastic video Broku, i believe that many really do under-estimate Asta.
and Meliodas as well.
another thing for ap for asta is lilith and namah destroying light by just flexing there full power
Asta slams
Bro said ASTA is universal
Meliodas have far more battle experience than asta?
Asta consistently beats people with more experience than him
I don't see Asta & Melidas fighting more like "hey you wane hang" type thing
true!
Season 1 Meliodas
Super nerf
I still don't believe black asta touching Meliodas.
My magic is never giving up
I would like to know who won, but the video is not fully translated into Portuguese so I can read the subtitles
asta
The conclusion that meliodas is solar system is reasonable within the bounds of character statement logic, but it is entirely unreasonable within the bounds of the plot itself because if he was that strong, the story would've played differently than it did, so he is not that strong.
This doesn't mean your conclusion is wrong, it just means the writer fucked up and created an inconsistency within his own story.
The end result is the wank placing him at like half galaxy levels, while to everybody who read the manga or saw the anime he at no point seemed that strong.
And this level of inconsistency is why character statements should always take a backseat to what actually happens in the main story that we can clearly see having an impact. The deep lore about the solar system either happened within an uncountable number of years or it's simply a plothole.
This is how i see it. I feel like the reason none of the commandments were triggered when they were fighting zeldris is because the demon king was not intending to use them in the first place. It was more like they dissolved and lost they were being suppressed by his soul since they are basically a part of his will. So it's very unlikely that he would have used them.
Its kinda hard scaling Dorothy to high universal since it's really unknown if she created glamour world or if she can access it through her magic just like how Obito can access his dimension through his Kamui
Mellionas can't kill cell so easily broo are you sick bro, remember magic and ki is different broo 😂they scale differently😎
What? Lol
Knew it Asta stomps. Don't get me wrong Meliodas is really strong but Asta is something else. I never knew people actually wanted this fight though. The fights I'd alway wanted were. Meliodas vs Luffy, Shulk (Xenoblade) vs Tsuna (Reborn), and Rex (Xenoblade 2) vs Asta.
What Meli out scales
No astas pretty fodder against anything above g5 luffy/SO6P naruto you cant compare him 7DS or Fire Force character he loses to ban king merlin escanor elizabeth gowther arthur zeldris
@@benhaber1021 yo
Just my thoughts but I feel repose commandment means like those who’ve been fighting for a long period of time,example Ace verse Jinbe from One Piece fought for 10 days without rest people from seven deadly sins and black clover can’t fight for that period of time assuming btw so probably after the first couple ours of the fight after there magic gets low but theirs still forcing their body of repose is near it’ll probably activate and seal the persons magic so they’ll have to fight with out it and focus physically
gosh broku now that i think about it. i’ve been watching you since i was in high school. that was 5 years ago. i’m 21 now
I can die happy knowing he did a match up i requested
This debate has been on my mind for the longest time
I don't think meliodas's soul manipulation is magic like the one he resisted but that probably wouldn't do much
We see demons casting spells to activate their soul manip
This confirms that deku and asta death Battle representation was truly off by a miel
First
meliodas is COOKING asta. all you do in your videos is glaze black clover😭
@@RacialTen2hn aww great argument
@@Br0ku smartest black clover fan
@@RacialTen2hn crazy everyone who has claimed I glaze BC and then want to debate me they always end up conceding 🤷🏼♂️
From all your vids it’s clear that Asta is universal or stronger just releaaase it brother and keep up !
Does yuno having star magic with his speed feats makes him star level ? (I know he’s far stronger than that)
nah his Stars are clearly not the size of stars. But if you want to go by that logic, Escanor would be star level as well
@@Br0ku true, but yuno’s stars had massive damage to 100% Zenon (planetary at least) and can teleport and overpowered time magic (windxstar magic)
Escanor was just getting big and his "massive sun attack" just made a river dry
So escanor feats are river lvl(💀) and yuno easily star
I mean Yuno's stars can be star level through scaling but not because they are called stars. But Estarossa had 5% of the Demon Lord's power, meaning that Escanor would be 5% Solar System level. @@fallenstar3713
Yuno has t mastered ultimate magic runes of heart kingdom true magic so he does have potential
In prisoners of the sky Meliodas fought Bellion and he broke his sword and keep in mind Meliodas in base form has crazy physical strength, so I believe Meliodas takes the win.
Meliodas magical strength isn't that high. We get a scaling from Hawk which differentiates his power in Magic, Strength and Spirit. As his power is unsealed his Magic power is at 2700 while his physical strength is at 27700 so 10x higher. Using his demon mark mostly increases his strength attribute so in terms of physical power Asta is nothing
if u think asta wins your slow
awww baby's first power scaling
Base meliodas is going to stomp him. He is way faster, physically stronger by alot, op healing, 3000 years old and one of the best swordsmen in the series. Demon mark is basically doubles his all stats making him even op. He would erase asta from existence.
that would be scaling asta to high solar system level and u can compare demons from bc to sds because to be fair the demons in sds are WAYYY stronger than the the demons dc and asta abilities dont instantly negates magic it weakness and poven by the magna that asta has struggled with magic before as aint tank meliodas mountain level BASIC attacks
The ten commandments are cursed magical power. They can be negeated and destroyed. Also asta would win. Most of the commandments are useless unless meliodas can pull a miel and fuse his ability with the commandments. Nanatsu no taizai nerd out!
I don't understand how you say that black clover characters are so much faster than light when asta before getting his black form , scaled to captain level characters and he was just a physically stronger human and people were even impressed that he can carry his swords , meaning he isnt that much stronger than a regular human . I get that light having light magic should make him and the characters that he fights light speed , but i doesnt make any sense how asta could keep up with them then . Iam pretty its anime science and it does not mean these characters actually move at light speed , not to mention thousand of times faster than that
The only real thing here i disagree with is Dorothy glamour world and som of the commandments that you say wouldn't work on asta except for tagt i agree mostly of what you say w video👍
The only real thing here i disagree with is Dorothy glamour world and som of the commandments that you say wouldn't work on asta except for tagt i agree mostly of what you say w video👍
what I meant is the 10 commandments responds to their DemonKing of any situation even if the person who has the commandments didn't say anything about their situation the commandments has their own consciousness and just does what they do.