What is Back-Hacking... will it harm my watch? Watch and Learn #60
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- Опубліковано 2 лип 2024
- In today's episode of Watch and Learn, we will tackle the topic of back-hacking. I'll explain what it is, why it works, and most importantly what everyone is thinking. . . is it bad?
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Thank you for watching. - Навчання та стиль
This has been a LONG STANDING query of mine (50 YEARS!) - thank you SO MUCH for being the person to finally address it. I didn't even know what it was called until today!! THREE THUMBS UP! (where is that other thumb? I know I had it somewhere!)
Thanks for putting in the time and effort into making this video. I have been back hacking my 007, Orange Monster and Samurai for years, but I always wondered if it was somehow damaging the movement. You have put my mind at ease. Thank you again.
Hi Mark, what makes your videos so great, is your clear way of explaining how a watch works. Thanks a lot!
Great to hear that, thank you.
Thanks Mark for a most interesting and informative video. This so far is my favorite Watch and Learn segment so far. Very well done, thanks again.
Thanks, I really enjoyed this one.
Excellent video!!!
I have seen a broken Omega Speedmaster that got the pallet fork stuck because of backhacking.
It ended up getting the pallet fork replaced
Good to know, so that confirms that going backwards is BAD
Another comments states that omega themselves directs users to backhack to set the watch. fail?
There is a big difference between applying just enough pressure when the watch spring is not fully wound to stop the movement, and trying to force the movement backwards!. It is this that damages the watch. Common sense guys. Even Omega know this they just don't take into account how ham fisted people can be. Great vid Mark thank you.
That's interesting. I have a Speedmaster and the manual even recommends backhacking it to get it to synchronize perfectly with other clocks.
@@islandwatch And yet, in the Speedmaster manual, Omega gives instructions how to backhack.
Great video. I discovered this by accident on my new SKX007, which convinced me not to change the stock movement. Love these videos. Please keep 'em going. Thanks
Very informative Mark! I've honestly learnt so much from this series of videos, great content as always, keep up the good work Sir... greetings from N.Ireland 👍
Thank you so much, greetings from cold Long Island!
i can't imagine you're wearing the clutch with back hacking. it *slides* when you set time, but when you back hack you transfer torque without sliding. no sliding no rubbing no wear
this video cleared up a lot of detail that mostly people don't talk about. you can describe most of a watch by talking about the going train because that takes you all the way from power to balance wheel, so i was confused about the point of departure between the two trains, the time set mechanism, and of course the clutch. so thanks a bunch
I found this video quite fascinating, thank you! My first automatic watch was a cheap Orient Mako I got new for about $80. IIRC it has one of the Seiko movements that is not wind-able nor hackable. A few months ago I accidentally discovered it was back-hackable. I had no idea that was a thing until I saw this video, but I was fascinated I could set it exactly with my two other wind-able, hackable Maratac watches. It's cool to understand the how and why, and how amazing the workings of these watches are.
Great content! Thanks again for continuing to take the time to teach!
You are welcome.
I love these. It was very helpful not just to learn about back hacking, but also how the gears work to move the hands (which helps to explain why they attach the way they do). Thank you.
You are welcome!
Thanks so much for taking the time to address this topic. Wonderful explanation!
You are welcome.
hello mark. finally a detail video about this particular matter arise. thank you for this video. long awaited video. keep it coming. cheers. :)
Thank you so very much for taking the time to break this down, great episode!
Thanks for taking the time to watch.
@@islandwatch I see what you did there lol.
Thank you . My vintage Bulova runs a little fast. Sometimes I set it back a min . I will stop doing this now .
Thanks for the info, Marc! I back-hack my 7s26 movements, but something instinctively told me to just hold the second hand stationary...not make it run backwards. Liked hearing that confirmed by you.
Thanks David.
Very informative video again! Thanks Marc.
Always learn something watching Marc’s videos. Thks Marc for sharing.
You are welcome, thanks for taking the time to watch.
Awesome. I’ve been waiting for this. Thanks, Marc.
Thanks!
Great video Marc. I always wondered how back hacking worked. Like how the sound gets a little louder when you zoom in (3:55). Gives the viewer that "i'm getting closer" feeling.
LOL. Closer to the camera, closer to the microphone.
Thank you for the class!
You are Genius ... Many reviewers talked about it but a seperate video and covering it in watch and learn is a genius ideas...I am sure lot of people will learn from it now
Thanks, I hope so.
It's funny, I asked myself this very question and I think you hit upon the crucial point at around 15'40". I am not a watchmaker, but I am a huge enthusiast and love to think about watch movements. I mentally followed the act of back-hacking and I also feel that it's all about the interaction of the pallet jewels and the escapement. The entry jewel and the exit jewel would essentially be reversing roles. The biggest issue, I think, would be that the jewels would instead of receiving and imparting force on their blunt faces, would instead be raking along the wrong side of each escapement tine, but on the points of the jewels, not the blunt faces. I am right? I'm just an enthusiast, so I would like to hear from an expert.
I have a couple of Seiko 5s with this movement. In fact, they are my "nicest" watches. I don't spend much money on watches, I just have fun bringing old Timexs back to life, Caravelles, etc.
Mark, I want to thank you! You answered one of my life long questions, and in great details in layman's terms.
Awesome, thank you!
I just recently bought a vintage Omega and have been wondering about this. Thanks for clarifying!
You are welcome!
Very helpfully explained. Thanks.
I do this a lot with my SKX and have always wondered if I was harming the movement. Thanks for doing this video Marc.
You are welcome.
Love "W&L" segments. Glad to see you are continuing them.
Funny, it's actually easier and faster to verbally say "Watch and Learn" than "W&L".
Thank you! Faster to type to since I'm a touch typist, except for the shift+number characters.
Very informative, Marc. Thanks!
You are welcome!
Great video! I've been wondering about this.
I love it when you get all technical. Thanks Marc. :-)
LOL, me too.
Yeah Marc, talk dirty to me again... 😏
thanks for the insight Marc! have always wondered if this was bad for the movement!
Thanks! Now you sort of know.
This is why I bought a watch from you Mark, I found out about back-hacking recently and wanted to try it...now I know I shouldn't. Great video, many thanks!
Glad you learned something, thank yo.
Good video! Always was curious.
Brilliant stuff.
Thank you
Very cool hands-on explaination ! Thanks Marc
Thanks!!!
This is a very good video I’m not very knowledgable on watches and this was very interesting and informative to me
Exceptional, thank you.
Great video! Good to see in the video what I have suspected for a while. I am particularly careful with vintage watches to avoid doing anything to compromise the cannon pinion friction fitting as i have had that problem with 1960s gruen precision and seikomatic watches. Thanks!
Thanks for watching.
Omega directs Speedmaster users to back hack to set the movement. I feel that qualifies it enough for me.
That's a valid point.
I went through the manual of my new speedy and nowhere does it state that...
@@kevin_howell It's under the instructions for Caliber 1861
Good video Mark. Thanks.
Thanks Marc, well done.
Very interesting information. Thank you!! BTW difficult to do in vintage watches.
Interesting, thank you.
Thanks Mark that was informative.
excellent. you are one of the best teachers. thank you. I retired and I hope this to be a new past time bought some tools also.
Congratulations on your retirement Paul
Great video on the back hacking subject ...thanks Marc. M.
Great info Marc. Thank you!
Enjoy!
Great educational video man. Thank you so much.
You are welcome.
Very informative! Thanks a lot!
Welcome!
Thanks for the excellent explanation! I thought I broke my watch when it went backwards, now I now why it happened.
Yup, not broken!
Great video. Love that Squalematic.
Thank you.
Awesome video , Mark . What a beautiful Squale .
Thank you.
Thanks Marc so intresting video..
Great explanation Marc. I noticed I could can stop the second hand on my (non-hacking) Citizen auto, but didn't know how it worked. Great content and vid.
Thanks!
Thank you for an outstanding explanation and demonstration of backhacking.
Welcome!
Congrats on 60 ! and thank you for W&L
Thanks. Doesn't feel like 60, does it?
Great video. Thanks for this series!
You are welcome, thanks for watching.
@@islandwatch 🙏
Thanks Mark, I appreciate your "public service" lessons to those of us who enjoy watches.
I enjoy making them, thank you.
Very nice and practical learning video, Mark👍
Awesome, thank you.
Top info, thanks for sharing 👍👍👍
Thanks!
Thanks for the tutorial, I've been wondering about this. I discovered back-hacking recently when I got my first mechanical watch. I found I could make the seconds hand stop and even move backwards but wondered if it could be harmful to the watch. After a bit of experimentation and after seeing your explanation, I've decided it really isn't worth the trouble and risk. When I go to get a stopped watch going, I just wait for the seconds hand on my reference timepiece to nearly match the position of the seconds hand on the stopped watch. At that point I give it a bit of the "Seiko shake" to get it running. After a bit of practice I can get it moving within a couple of seconds of the reference, and that is certainly good enough. Then I just set the minutes and hours hands to the correct values. No back hacking necessary.
I enjoy these learning videos a lot, even though I haven't a clue what you're talking about half the time. Watching these videos, for me, is like looking at the movement in operation through an exhibition caseback. I have no clue what's going on, but it's mesmerizing to view.
hahaha
LOL
Same here!!!
Thank you!
Fun video! I love seeing how mechanical watches work.
Me too :) Never get tired of it.
Thanks, Mark, good info.
Thanks
I have back hacked my Amphibia a few times to set it. Now I understand what is going on. Great explanation!
Thanks for watching!
Good one always wanted to know this information on this very subject. Now I know, Nice.
Thanks!
nice informative video, thanks
Thanks for the video. Very informative even though I won't be back hacking my SKX. I'll use a quartz watch if I want an accurate time or just check the time on my CP.
Me too!
Another super content.. well done ..
Thanks!
Really cool! I learned something today :)
Great to hear, thank you.
Fantastic video, very well explained, never heard of back hacking, but I treasure my watches too much to even try this. But thank you for sharing this information.
Welcome!
My SNXJ80 and my 7002 7000 both have back hacking, I had no idea how it was working as everything i read said they did not hack at all!!! I could stop the second hand and make it go backwards lol. Now I understand! Thank you! Kia kaha from New Zealand!
Very informative....
Thankyou....
Thanks.
That was so cool, Mark
Thanks for watching.
Thanks Mark, i did know about back hacking, but seeing is believing here. You explained it well.
Thanks for watching.
Absolutely phenomenal video! SO informative, Kudos Mark!!!
Though… I am too scared to back hack my watch now 😂
Jokes aside it seems that, in theory, back hacking should not cause any problems if it is done with moderation and when the watch is almost completely unwound.
Still, I have found out that it doesn’t take much force to go from back hacking to ‘reversing the time’, so I think I will stay away from that habit for some time! 😂
I have to admit though, when I first saw that second hand going backwards on my watch I though ‘wtf, I didn’t know this little thingie is a time machine!’ 😂🤣😂
Just tried this on my SKX ! Love it
:)
Interesting. So when the crown is pulled and you don't touch it, all the hands should still be moved by the movement and the crown should be slowly rotating with them. And the added friction could perhaps slow down the movement a bit. I think I'll try this, since my watch is running faster, so every time I need to set the time it's a bit backwards, which I don't want to directly and to revolve everything forwards is a pain..
Great video and thanks for the SKX007 Mark. I let the watch sit on the table over night, to get the movement to a lower power and was successful back hacking. If this attempted at a high power it didn't back hack for me. So wait for low power and it works.
I have same problem, what should I do!? You suggested to open balance wheel & adjusted the lever or what?
Why back hack? Is this the solution to my daily nightmare of adjusting the time on a Seiko skx009? I'll admit that I'm obsessed with starting my day with being no more than one second off. Great lesson, as always Marc.
Switch to Decafe shaky!! :) Awesome as always and informative.
Yeah, I know. It wasn't just coffee, it was empty stomach and extra strength excedrin too!
Great informative video brother thanks ! I always have to set my automatics to Atomic time because I keep track of them on a app and I back hack my skx and old Seiko 5 it's not a problem with the new Seiko fives because they hack but I've always wondered when I do that to my skx if it was hurting it thank you very much
Mark, thank you so much for this. I always suspected that going backwards was not a good idea - now I know exactly why! I don't set my watches to the second anyway, but my SKX013 will for sure never get a back hack from me anymore :) Cheers!
Awesome, Thanks TSW!
@@islandwatch I have an old Russian Poljot where to change the date its required to go backwards and forwards between 7 and 12 constantly (the watch only has 1 crown postion). Doing this causes the second hand to go backwards a bit. I wonder how how much effect it has on the movement giving that this is considered the "correct" way to change the date.
Great simple-easy-to-understand explanation. I'm just wondering if these movements were originally built to back hack? Or was it by pure coincidental luck that it is possible? The fact that you shouldn't back hack when it's fully wound w/too much torque, makes it sound like back hacking was not originally intended. But then car breaks basically work on same principle, but you do have to change the shoes once in a while. Just a thought....
Hello! Long time listener, first time caller. I just bought a seiko recraft automatic with 7s26 movement but to my knowledge does not back hack or manual wind. Why would there be variance like that within the same movement? Thanks!
Having used quartz (or just wind-up) watches previously (as in many, many years ago) when I got started with automatics I wanted to set the time EXACTLY to see how accurate the watch is ... And because I wanted the EXACT time. Quartz watches had spoiled me in that regard but of course quartz means batteries so I started using automatics and discovered something. Hacking an automatic is useless. Because any automatic watch I can afford isn't going to be accurate enough for a time hack to have any useful purpose past a few days. Unless I want to hack those automatics every day and in the case of non-hacking movements fiddle around with back hacking them, they're never going to benefit from hacking.
So why does this matter? Because I'm an amateur astronomy buff and I also use my watch for celestial navigation practice. Both of those pursuits require as accurate a time hack as you can get.
So along came Citizen Eco-drives and I got the best of both worlds in a watch. Then along came smart phones (etc.) and now it doesn't really matter because anything with GPS is time synchronized with the GPS satellites exactly in order to work properly.. If I absolutely HAVE to get a +/- one second time hack I just lay my phone on the _____ (bench, table, nav station countertop, etc.) Now I'm free to wear whatever watch suits me at the time no matter what movement it uses. If I have calculated that I need to maintain a tack for an hour and a half any good automatic is accurate enough for that and way, way more convenient than trying to check time on an expensive phone that can slip out of my hands and into Davy Jones' locker in an instant.
I still wear a watch to tell time at a glance and I always will. Pulling out a phone to check the time is just a rude heathen move as far as I'm concerned. I like my watches to be accurate and I virtually NEVER buy a watch for the "bling" factor, though I will choose among my watches to suit the occasion, watches are always first and foremost timepieces as far as I'm concerned -- The purpose of me wearing a watch is to tell time as a primary factor by a large percentage so I like accurate, well made watches. But I'm never going to bother with back-hacking any automatic watch I own ever again.
Awesome!
Righteous!
Thanks for info
Thank you
I think you should make a video on the different movements and how they compare to ETA. For example, Selita, STP, Soprod, and ISA. I have been quite impressed with the Selita in my Oris.
Great idea. Personally, I am only familiar with Eta and Selita.
Very cool suggestion. I would also be interested in an explanation of Seiko's various VK meca-quartz models.
That would make for a great Watch and Learn episode. I get confused by the various movements.
Very useful idea.
Definitely, a great idea and Mark is the right person to do the video.
I have the exact same 7s26c movement but mine doesnt hack when i wind backwards
Thanks Marc,
Welcome.
With my inexpensive Seiko, it is hard to set the desired time (e.g., +15 seconds), because it runs unpredictably for a couple of days. Once it stabilizes, I can no longer stop the seconds hand.
Could be too much torque at that point.
@PacoTaco0404040 I would guess not. The way I understand it, as the mainspring winds up (as it does from wearing it and an automatic won't overwind itself), the watch gets harder to backhack because backhacking involves overcoming the torque of the mainspring. When you backhack, you rotate the movement such that the mainspring rotates in the winding direction (when the movement runs normally, the mainspring is unwinding). So when a watch is fully wound, you may not be able to backhack it because to do so, you need to overcome the spring's torque. With a fully wound spring, that may not be possible.
@PacoTaco0404040 , I really like the watch, but not being able to correct the time (by stopping it for several seconds) is annoying.
Thank you, Mark, for explaining this. I have often wondered why I can back-hack some of my watches but not others. That's how I set the precise time on my Omega Speedmaster and most of my vintage Omega watches that were built with in house movements. I couldn't understand why my vintage Omega DeVille with ETA 7750 movement won't back-hack, or why some of my watches are much easier to back-hack when the mainspring is only slightly wound. This was very informative!
The smile you make at (im trying it out and i do not what refenrences is !!! )
you are happy !
Thank you for the video! It answered a question I’ve had for quite some time now, and needed an answer from a reputable source. One question, when setting time to the second, what is the best source to use for accurate time?
time.gov
Long Island Watch Thank you!
How do you set the time on a watch with quick set date when it’s running fast? Go forward 24hrs then advance the date a full month? Seems a chore just to set the time back every few weeks when you can just reverse the minute hand a few minutes backwards.
For non hacking movement I think you need to perfectly align minute hand and forget about the second hand.
The second hand is just a vital sign that the watch is a live and running
Like a heartbeat.
That was cool! 😎
Thanks!