Finding Intimacy and Community As a Celibate Gay Christian: Art Pereira
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- Опубліковано 15 бер 2023
- Art is the Director of Community Care for Revoice--an organization whose mission is to support and encourage gay, lesbian, bisexual, and other same-sex attracted Christians-as well as those who love them-so that all in the Church might be empowered to live in gospel unity while observing the historic Christian doctrine of marriage and sexuality. Art realized he was gay at around age 12 and became a Christian in his late teens. He's served as a youth pastor and currently works for Revoice. Our converation reflects upon his journey, which includes seeking to find intimacy and community as a gay man and committed Christ follower pursuing celibacy.
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He's blessed to have found community. Unfortunately for many Christians with same sex attraction who want to be celibate, they don't have anyone for "intimacy" and community
I am happily gay married, we raise adopted kids. I dwoul invite that lonely people at any time.
@@user-hr8dx9qw4n...raising these kids to ACCEPT homosexuality? Transsexuals, too?
Yeah I definitely don’t
Proverbs 18:24 “A man of many companions may come to ruin, but there is a friend who sticks closer than a brother.” :)
I’m struggling with this myself I just decided to be celibate. This is very informative. Thank you.
Authentic connections are built on a foundation of shared vulnerability. Sex is often used as a substitute for authentic connection resulting in unfulfilled emotional voids and dissatisfaction with ourselves.
Great to hear someone else put their testimony out there., it’s encouraging.
I am happily gay married, we raise adopted kids. I dwoul invite that lonely people at any time.
Very fascinating and heartfelt story! Tank you for the transparency and vulnerability!
I am happily gay married, we raise adopted kids. I dwoul invite that lonely people at any time.
I loved this conversation, so much wisdom and insight.
I love the way Art perfectly articulates the dynamic of the dichotomy.
Art is a gift. 💗
That was beautiful, honest, truthful in Christ and vulnerable. 😊
Art is a very sincere and open person who obviously loves the Lord.
So honest, thank you for sharing your story, so brave❤
What a beautiful testimony of God's goodness. Art is so gifted, knowledgeable, and learned. I appreciate him having the boldness with a severe level of authenticity that cuts right to the core. I wish I had something like that in my life and I know I've struggled to allow people to love me as well as having a significant challenge in trusting myself around other men. I scare myself sometimes in how messy and manipulative I can be sometimes. I've grown so much but those parts of me are still there and I fear them sometimes. Thank you.
Great conversation!
Thank u brother for sharing your testimony. I can relate and been through everything you said. God bless you. God loves you and so do I shalom ❤
Preston.
Thank you for this very interesting podcast
So much sincerity between two brothers.☝🏼❤️
I was a Baptist Pastor and missionary but I am gay, medically proven during electronic shock therapy as part of 13 years of reparative therapy. I was married to my accepting wife for 51 years and cared for her with MS for 26 years. She was unable to ambulate for the last 15 years before she passed. I have studied considerably the original Hebrew and Greek of the scriptures on being gay. I strongly support gay marriage, but I am not intimate with anyone. I don't have any boyfriends. God created me gay and the church has told me I am not welcome to even attend church. Time to move on and enjoy my life. God has also created some of 1500 animal species gay. Did God make a huge mistake when He did this? Of course not.
this is helping me so much, than you.
I can’t seem to locate the website
Bênçãos, irmão! (I speak google translate! 🤣)
More to life than sex
He is so obviously not talking about just sex.
A non-practicing homosexual forever holds his piece!
16:15 I SO relate to this! For me “gay” is in similitude to “experiencing same-sex attraction.” Yet some are committed to seeing it exclusively as an identity. I don’t “identify” as gay (which should evade any lecture about my identity as a son of God). I just am.
This is incredible, I understand you love your friend Nick, but that relationship is different and difficult to understand, is Nick really straight?
Nick is very straight !!
Friendship is a thing.
Your idea of sharing a man with a woman is wrong and in the end won't work. Sex is a part of life and people are most active sexually in their youth. As you get older it is less important. A real relationship though is not built on sex it is built on love, commitment and supporting one another. It is a partnership between 2 people. A man who is in a three way relationship with a couple ( man and woman) will always be the third wheel, will interfere with the primary couples relationship and will be left wanting and probably resented. If the man in the primary relationship is actually gay and just forming the relationship with the women because he thinks that is what he should do, he is also fooling himself, especially if his true love is the other male in the three way relationship. Following along this line, the woman would be the one who is really the third wheel and is being done a disservice because she will never really be the true partner to her husband. It is a three way mess any way you look at it.
God’s original design for man was that it was “not good for him to be alone,” so He made a suitable partner for him when He brought the women to complete him and the two became one (a whole person).
We most definitely need to be made whole and complete and God has provided the means by which that occurs.
When we follow the Bible’s guidance on these matters rather than our own, we fulfill God’s perfect plan for our lives and bring honor to Him through our obedience.
So what do men do who struggle with this attraction?
I’m more inclined to think to do marriage as God intended because of. It burning with lust.
Jesus's words at 1 Corinthians 7-9: Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
@@ChronoSoul Wasn’t that Paul’s words?
@@alexika9981 right. It's one thing if a person just hasn't found someone regardless of the attraction.
Thank-you for your honesty it really helped me god bless you and take care
???😢
There is no demand by the Catholic church to be celibate as a gay Catholic. It's purely a personal choice. That is the position of the Catholic church (Catholic Truth).
What do you propose they do?
There is no basis in truth in the Catholic Church. They don't worship the same Jesus that is mentioned in the Bible so I'm not really sure you know what you are talking about.
@@nonyabusiness2510....I can't believe the Ignorance, even stupidity of the comments IN THIS THREAD of how the CATHOLIC CHURCH responds to homosexuality. All I will say is..RESEARCH the TRUTH.
@@Jeremy-wp4yh ua-cam.com/video/M_slbVkKgSY/v-deo.html
@@Jeremy-wp4yh ua-cam.com/video/IIJORMlq0cM/v-deo.html
Gay is not a choice, it is not a lifestyle, it is a hardwired sexual preference and again it is not a choice, you are made that way. God created all things. God does not make mistakes. If you judge yourself because of prejudice and based on wrong interpretation of statements in a bible that was put together by man at a time when they didn't even understand sexuality, then I feel very sorry for you because you hate yours for who you are fundamentally. Just as in straight society, having multiple sexual partners and engaging in risky sexual practices is wrong bur as a gay person you don't have to do these things.
this really is such a harmful approach. what a shame people actually believe this garbage
With friends like this... Who needs the Bible.
Nowadays.... CHRISTIANITY has become Whatever the Individual says (it) is. Don't like certain Scriptures? Just ignore them! Something Biblically make you feel bad or hurt your feelings? No Problem! Just get your feelings hurt, get Offended and "Cancel" them! It's All about YOU and How YOU feel and what works for YOUR LIFESTYLE......The Christian Church has slowly, sadly become a PARODY of itself. 💯👍
Art is celibate out of love for Jesus. What is your problem ??
Celibacy is an option for the Kingdom, but you can also be a believer AND in same-sex Christ centered relationships.
No you can’t. Homosexual activity is sinful.
You're not in a Christ Center relationship if you're in a same sex relationship. You may be taking some notes but His ways are not your ways and you're not practicing His law
@@keynat9755 no shade
@@keynat9755 I rest my case sista!
The sex makes it a sin?? What if the 2 decide no sex??
If a person is struggling with same sex attraction they need to first not act on that attraction. The Bible says Jesus was tempted, but he didn't sin. One can struggle with it, but don't act on it. Those struggling with same sex attraction, but living a celibate life or living single or are still a virgin are adhering to the Bible. The Bible tells them to live a celibate life. Leviticus being a Holiness code. The Bible says to live Holy and in cleanliness, so that means live a celibate life. Jesus Christ needs to be their new identity. Put their sexuality in the back of their head, suppress it.
What you have stated is erroneous and totally contrary to scripture.
First - unless you have personally experienced same sex attraction, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and are speaking from a place of ignorance.
Second - God has not called us to "suppress" anything. That is TOTALLY AGAINST the word of God.
While, I would not encourage a Born-Again Believer to adopt the term "Gay Christian", there is NO shame in a Christian admitting that they experience and struggle with same-sex attractions. The shame is in "suppressing" them outwardly, only to end up acting on them privately - trust me, I have been there.
Jesus wants us to BODLY confront the issues concerning us - not suppress them. We do this, so that we can be made free from the bondage of sin and walk in the spirit of holiness.
We achieve holiness through the humble "surrender" of our thoughts, feelings, desires and actions to Christ. When we do this, Jesus gives us his grace through the Holy Spirit that empowers us to sanctification. That is the complete opposite from self-behavior modification and suppression, both of which are entirely based on human effort - and in most cases, will end up in epic failure. We cant exchange and transform what we are "suppressing". Surrender is what ALL believers are called to, not suppression.
@@mrbigguy6905 Read the Bible. God says to live in cleanliness and be Holy. That means not to engage in sexual perversion. So, yes you're supposed to suppress your same sex attraction. I am attracted to the opposite sex. Just like I'm not supposed to have premarital sex which I did fornicate just one time, but I repented of that sin. Had sex one time with my girlfriend (R.I.P). Haven't had sex since then. I became celibate February 14, 2007 when she lost her life due to an illegal immigrant in a hit and run. If I can be celibate and wait for my future wife to have kids with, then a gay person can refrain from having sex and live a celibate life or live a single life. Those are the only options for LGBT ppl.
I just love heterosexuals who probably are married and have sex once a day telling GAY people to never fall in love, never have the intimacy they take for granted, and just be celibate until you die. And none of them see the cruelty in this garbage.
@@mrbigguy6905I am a celibate ‘gay Christian’. There, I said it. Jesus still loves me, however.
Although he claims to want pastoral accountability, (52:19) notably, Art had difficulty finding the perfect pastor and church. Why? Because he really, really needed to find a pastor who would be "pastoral" (ie. "God loves you just the way you are, Art. You're doing everything right here. Such an example to the rest of us flawed heterosexuals!") As far as sexuality or sexual sin goes, that pastor had to pass the Art-theology-sniff test. Art's *chosen* pastor must never, never veer from Art's version of truth or dare to correct his bad theology.
How would you correct Art’s theology then ?? What’s wrong with Art simply wanting to be safe ??
Well@@KevinBrowneenjoyinglife,first we need to define "safe". Does safe, in the context of church community, mean that Art is loved, and embraced as a man made in the image of God and that he is included in the life of the life of the church while his identity is affirmed as a beautiful thing? or does it mean that Art is loved and embraced as a man made in the image of God who is encouraged to walk the road of discipleship and progressive sanctification in all areas, including his sexual and emotional desires, temptations, and actions? I would say that if safety for Art =no one, including his pastor, is allowed to call him out/challenge his views in these important areas, or shepherd him in uncomfortable ways re: the aforementioned, then that's a problem for him, spiritually.
As to what I might correct in his theology... based upon all I have seen and heard from Art as he has spoken about matters of sexuality and identity, I would change the part where he genuinely seems to embrace the identity of gay-Christian, taking on a sense of "being" gay in the totality of who he sees himself to be. (The part that sees this as a God-given part of his core being.) That's where I would start. The second important element I would correct is his theology of sin. It needs to include both behavior (he has that part down pretty well) and the desire which leads to behavior (which he seems to miss/discount/ignore--idk which) as being sinful categories. That would be absolutely life changing for Art, who seems like a pretty amazing and charismatic guy, as well as all of his side-b friends, including yourself, I suspect. Without those two key elements corrected, side b existence, as I have observed it, carries with it a certain sense of lament, oppression, and hopelessness on a deep level, although it's great that many are finding fellow strugglers with whom to share their burdens. I would love to see more talk of pursuing holiness from the Revoice crowd, rather than the leaning into activism, which is what I am increasingly seeing over the past 6 years.
I hope that doesn't sound harsh. You don't know me, and this msg does have its limitations in that it's a typed response to a question in cyberland. Let me know if you have any other thoughts or questions.
@@KevinBrowneenjoyinglife I got a notification that you replied to my (long) post, but I don't see it...? Would you mind posting again?
@@mistyrainbows9402 Repost:
Thank you for this deeply thoughtful response 😊
As a person who loves and follows Jesus, and at the same time experiences unbidden gay attractions myself (and as a Christian is therefore completely celibate), I guess that it might be helpful to help define some terms.
Gay = same sex attracted. Not having sex. Not lusting. It is simply the unbiden, uninvited and unrelenting experience of attraction to the same sex. This is no different from Straight = opposite sex attracted. Not having sex. Not lusting. It is simply the unbidden, uninvited, and unrelenting experience of attraction to the opposite sex.
Safe = for Art and myself means a church environment where we are held accountable in orthodoxy, but are not being endlessly expected/demanded by churches (and those within them) to make ourselves straight or else to stay quiet and dishonestly sweep our orientation under the carpet in order to try to prove sanctification, and therefore be acceptable in God’s church.
The expectation that celibate gay Christians must become straight is like placing an expectation on a goldfish that it must be able to climb a tree. It creates shame and a sense of failure.
We celibate gay Christians know that God in His Sovereignty can do absolutely anything. However when God chooses to say “No” to our endless prayers and pleading to become straight, then what are we to do ??
We, like St. Paul who accepted his thorn, we accept that we, like you, continue to endure the effects of the Fall, but with Holy Spirit strength, through Who’s help, we can flourish and genuinely witness the Gospel. That is better than going through life enduring endless shame, and so refusing to be accused of being a failed goldfish or a failed Christian.
What are the effects of the Fall ?? Well, experiencing gay attractions is one of them for Art and myself. For you, it might be the shame of not wearing any clothes in public (because that too is an effect of the Fall).
I completely reject identity theology (which insinuates that I am not allowed to honestly describe my reality to others as my testimony). Yes, when Jesus saved me he completely changed my heart and my instincts and my direction in life, and He enabled me to follow Him in obedience. However God did not choose to change my orientation.
(If anyone doesn’t like that, then they should take up their argument with God, and not with people such as Art and I, LOL 😂 !!)
I completely reject identity theology in regards to us celibate gay Christians because it is not Scriptural (Look up “identity” in any translation of the Bible. You’ll never find it used in the way that straight evangelicals use it to thump us celibate gay Christians), and it also encourages dishonesty. Identity theology says “you’re not allowed to say that you’re gay because that’s identifying with your sin past”.
Well hello !! My gay orientation hasn’t gone away. It is still present. And I am celibate out of obedience to God’s design for human sexuality. So, what’s your frigging problem, apart from choosing to intensely dislike people like me (or the ‘Revoice crowd) ??
So, as far as I am concerned, any demand that I completely hide my orientation is just a horrible attempt by a group, gripped with fear, trying to sweep it under the carpet, and it forces people such as Art and myself to re-clothe ourselves in perpetual shame that Jesus took from us at the Cross.
I also suspect that identity theology is nothing more than a thinly disguised homophobia (‘Christian’ homophobia = hatred and disgust of gay people and so wants us to not exist or else to become completely invisible in the church).
Yes, Art and I are new creations in Christ. Christ has changed our hearts. Christ has changed the course of our lives. We obey Christ’s’ calling on our lives by stewarding our sexuality in complete celibacy, in thought and in deed.
Yet, God, in His Sovereign wisdom, has not chosen to remove our same sex attraction.
If Romans 8:28 is to be fully believed, then we must believe that God in His Sovereignty can use anything, including a gay sexual orientation as a testimony to God’s goodness.
“And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.”
Romans 8:28
Art has a testimony of God’s goodness. I have a testimony of God’s goodness. There are people out there who need to hear these testimonies of God’s goodness.
So, why are so many ‘straight Christians’ throwing stones at Art when he offers his testimony ??
I guess it’s often because, like the Pharisees, they love ‘their’ law, more than they love the Gospel.
@@mistyrainbows9402 Did you get my reply ??
This is some of the saddest, sickest shit about Christianity. I hope one day you realize this religion is false, and that you’re needlessly depriving yourself of a full life.
By what authority do you make that statement? PLease provide your authority or shut your mouth.
@@nonyabusiness2510 by what authority do you ask?
Homosexuality is natural, celibacy is not
i have trouble with him calling himself a gay christian.
i just feel that the gay lifestyle he once celebrated should no longer be
including in his present status as a christian.
celibacy isnt the issue here.
putting god first and foremost - and facing struggles head on. whatever demons'
we face - no glory to the past and
more prayer my brother.
HERE SOME SCIENTIFIC FACTS ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY:
+ The WHO, World Health Organization, stated clearly, that homosexuality not a disease or disorder, but a healthy natural sexual orientation.
+ It is most likely innate (determined by SNP in several genes and by antibodies (NLGN4Y) during pregnancy), as the opposite sex is never sexual attractive to people born homosexual.
+ Evolution scientists stated in several publications, that homosexuality exists since sexuality exists, since 385 million years.
+ They also stated, that having homosexual members in the own tribe, gives several evolutionary advantages, which explains the permanent share of 4-10% homosexuals of the population.
>> So, the question would be rather: why putting an ethical limit on homosexuality if its natural, healthy and even with a natural sense?
>> Especially now as more and more homosexuals marry and adopt and raise kids that else wise would have no parents.
For God's sake, being gay is a sexual orientation. It is not a life style. What is the heterosexual life style? Do all heterosexuals live exactly the same way?
More prayer for what ?? Praying to not be honest about his reality as being a celibate gay Christian ??
So,, you’re saying that you have trouble with Art being honest about describing his reality of being a Christian who also happens to be gay ?? Do you want to shovel Art back into the closet ??
I feel sorry for you dude. You were born gay and there is nothing wrong with that. Gay people have always existed in all cultures in all religions. From what I can glean from this, you are a good person, and would be without god. Your classmate from middle school accepted you for who you are as did the rest of the community you were in at that time. What makes you think your god would not accept you? I think it may have more to do with guilt and you not accepting being gay. God wants you to be happy. He wants you to enjoy life and share it with someone if you chose. There is not guilt or evil in that. The sad part is that you and your religion have convinced you to be celibate. That is a shame because I am sure you could be a good partner for someone.
BRAVO. But this gay man is lost to brainwashing that sex is evil unless in a heterosexual marriage. This means most humans are doomed because most have sex BEFORE marriage.
so has adultery, murder, rape, child molestation. All existed in all cultures. Anything else you need clarified around your absurd narrative
Let us pray for Art…a very confused and troubled soul
Why? Because YOU don't come to his conclusions about life. Possibly, You need prayer, Too.
Pray for what ??
You can be LGBT and Christian
@Jesse Brown if you believe the Bible is true what did God say about eating from the Tree of knowledge? Do you believe that?
Your OPINION is duly noted and summarily dismissed because, well, it's just that and MORE IMPORTANTLY God says otherwise. There can no more be a Gay Christian than there is a gay Christ.
@Jesse Brown looks like you have a little applesauce on your chin like you've been eating from the Tree of knowledge.
@Jesse Brown do you idolize what it says or is it just literature to you?
@Jesse Brown do you idolize what it says?
This testimony is crazy! 😂 unbelievable Art has manipulated another man into being his support in life. Unbelievable that Art would move forward in ministry with these continued battles. He does not sound like a man convicted in the Holy Spirit. 35:20 the interviewer is laughing at you. He says he doesn’t want kids, then says he imagines he’d have a family.
You are right!
HERE SOME SCIENTIFIC FACTS ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY:
+ The WHO, World Health Organization, stated clearly, that homosexuality not a disease or disorder, but a healthy natural sexual orientation.
+ It is most likely innate (determined by SNP in several genes and by antibodies (NLGN4Y) during pregnancy), as the opposite sex is never sexual attractive to people born homosexual.
+ Evolution scientists stated in several publications, that homosexuality exists since sexuality exists, since 385 million years.
+ They also stated, that having homosexual members in the own tribe, gives several evolutionary advantages, which explains the permanent share of 4-10% homosexuals of the population.
>> So, the question would be rather: why putting an ethical limit on homosexuality if its natural, healthy and even with a natural sense?
>> Especially now as more and more homosexuals marry and adopt and raise kids that else wise would have no parents.
This testimony is true and no, Nick has not in any way been manipulated !!
Someones whole identity is not wrapped in who they find attractive. Just stop it already. Thats why theres a conflict. You have human beings tgat are saved displaying christlike character more so or just the same as others. Folks want to throw the whole person away because what they find attractive. There can be and are christians with those attractions period. Some will make it some wont...some husbands will make it some wont etc
Art is gay, and celibate, and Latino, and male, and Brazilian, and funny, and Christian. Art is allowed to be all of these characteristics 👍
Yeah, maybe the gay needs to stay and the god thing needs to go. I can't imagine being so trapped by superstition that someone would deny who they are.
There's no such thing as a gay Christian. Only a homosexual that thinks he believes in God obviously not the case here. Repent brother and you shall live, not die in sin.
Being gay is a sexual orientation. It has nothing to do with how you live your life. Estimates are that u-p to 85% of the priests at the Vatican are gay.
I'm sorry? I missed the scripture where God turned over judging peoples hearts to you. A Christian is someone who is justified and saved. Clearly you don't know what a Christian actually is. Engaging in homosexual activity is a sin, as is adultery. In fact scripture states if you look at a women with sin you are an adulterer. So that means you cannot be a Christian because you have engaged in lust. I suggest you go to Matthew 7 and remove the plank from your own eye before worrying about the speck of dust in someone else's. “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.” (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)
I guess you aren't going to heaven and are not a Christian. Or can you point to scripture than discerns that adultery gets a pass. You are shameful and a poor example of someone who likely claims to be a Christian.
I am a Christian who is gay and celibate. Who are you to say that I am not a Christian ?? Are you perfect and sinless yourself ??
@@KevinBrowneenjoyinglife you know you not, even though you see clearly in the bible what it says about homosexuality you keep covering the devil with sin. But live your life one day you will repent and know what to do. Yes I don't sin and I'm perfect because my father's God spirit dwells in me, not me persay. Wish you well brother
@@Banban_tv you’re not making a great deal of sense in your reply.
However what I did glean was you saying that you’re the only person, next to Jesus, who is sinless and perfect !!
You won’t find anyone else here who makes that kind of crazy claim !!