Triumvirat- Illusions on a Double Dimple (REACTION & REVIEW)
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- Опубліковано 8 лип 2022
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Song Link: • Triumvirat - Illusions...
A masterpiece if you'd ask me.
Have loved this album since it first came out. Everyone speaks rightly about the keyboard work, but Ive always thought the drums were simply superb
The melody maker asked Keith Emerson what he thought of Triumvirat lifting pieces of ELP, Keith said I am flatter they give homage to our work, I cannot criticized them as I lifted pieces from Brubeck, Gershwin and Others! Jurgen Frits was asked about their similarities with ELP and he just answered they are our Heroes! I think Triumvirat is great sure they lift a lot from ELP but they make it their own! Sadly Helmut Kholen died of carbon monoxide poison listening to his upcoming solo album while seating in his car while it was running inside the garage. For their fourth album old love dies hard Triumvirat became a 4 piece band and to me their best album.
Justin my man...Welcome to Triumvirat! They put together a string of fantastic albums...Illusions, Spartacus, Pompeii and Old Loves Die hard. Yes, they sound like ELP but still retain a whole different flavor. Listen to this again on your own...I bet you'll like it better the more you digest what's happening. Please don't stop here with them...continue on...the reward is worth it. I never got to see them live. I remember hearing about them playing the Capitol theatre in Jersey back in the day. Thank you for giving this a listen.
Ty Freddie, happy to :)
You may be the only reactor on UA-cam to do Triumvirat,. I have been a fan since the mid 70's, they were referred to as a poor mans ELP, the albums Old Loves Die Hard and especially Spartacus are well worth the listen, the track March to the Eternal City is exquisite.
Woah. You're going deep down the more obscure prog rabbit hole here. As others mention, Spartacus is this band's main claim to fame, but this one comes in a close second. Spartacus is very similar sonically, but with better songwriting. The comparisons to ELP will be hard to ignore, but they're all good musicians with a pleasant 70s prog sound. Enjoy!
I disagree. This is by far their best product. This album flows yet still has a hundred hooks and changes. The drumming is very forward and outstanding. I believe it was the drummer tragically died by misadventure. Its the top of the 4/4 prog universe. Spartacus is passable at times and the rest is not to my taste.
@@davidflinn4521 I agree.. this is the best. Is one of those I ALWAYS listened from beginning to end when I put it on. Got the vinyl and 8-track for the car when it came out - not sure, but think I got the CD too. I listened to Spartacus, but after absorbing Illusions, it didn't 'grab' me. I'll have to listen to it again.
Wow I can't believe you picked tis, good for you !!!!👍 It's a Classic Prog stand out !!!!!
Back in the height of Prog round 1973-74'when we were all silly "Youts" that like to mess with each others minds we would call out bands and see if others were hipto the new Prog coming from England, Germany and Italy !! And Triumvirat was one !! 🎼
Early FM had some great collage radio then an WAAF was one of then in the early days and it was the station to catch up on the newer music, it's where we first heard Genesis in 1971', Focus, Van de Graaff, Gentle Giant, Nektar ...etc.
Hans-Jurgen Fritz is an Amazing Keyboardist !!! Right up there with Wakeman, Emerson & Banks !!! You come a long way picking this one Justin !!! Fantastic Grasshopper, Classic Prog never disappoints !! And yeah ELP liked them which should be Obvious !! Lol 🎶✌
WAAF 107.3?
@@jonp4846 Yes great old memories 👍📻
Not the biggest Triumvirat fan, they're kinda like a German ELP, but I really dig their first album Mediterranean Tales. Kind of a muddy production, but it has a certain charm to it. Now that I'm listening to this again, it's pretty cool. There's a fine line between stupid and clever (Spinal Tap), especially with symphonic prog.
I haven't heard this in years, and it's fantastic. Nice one 🙃
I saw Triumvirat live once. They were the opening act for Jefferson Starship. I went to the concert mostly to see Triumvarat.
Heck, who wouldn't?
Triumvirat, for me until today the best German progressive rock band!
Thrilled to see you react to Triumvirat! Hope you find time to do Spartacus soon.
I have this album as well as "Spartacus", haven't listened to them in quite some time, but as memory serves, I believe I liked the latter more. I do remember thinking it was hard for me to get thru the whole thing. Bass player seems to have gotten down the thick Chris Squire sound pretty well.
For a different take on a German band, may I suggest " Ride the sky" by Lucifer's Friend.🤠👌
Great suggestion ! Lucifer's Friend with talented English singer John Lawton (the only non-German in the band) who later took over from David Byron in Uriah Heep from 1976 to 1979.
I like both albums, but Spartacus is easily my favorite of theirs.
Really like the keyboards on this - that opening piano arpeggio combined with the tinking triangle is pure genius. Triumvirat does some creative work on their own, without copying ELP. And for their part, ELP is not entirely innocent, and did their share of copying - Emerson lifted the music for "Tank" from a living jazz composer, who threatened to sue, but failed to get a case, because Keith skipped out of the meeting (as Carl Palmer told later).
Still, it's fair to say that the music sounds like ELP, and took some sound cues from them. But still a great classical progressive work.
A friend played this for me right after it came out. I sat there awestruck. We were in our early twenties. We shared our thoughts. We spoke of ELP. He said, “They keep coming at you!” I agreed. It felt relentless. I loved it!
So great to see this one. I actually enjoyed this more with repeated listening. Though I did like it enough to buy the group's offerings on sight. Sparticus is, perhaps just a smidgen more poppy but is also just as complex and progressive. To me, the biggest difference between Triumvirat and ELP is that Triumverat doesn't tend to use the sci fi themes. That, and the vocal differences. Their name stands for "The power of three" five of their seven albums (the first 5) are well worth owning. Enjoy!
I saw them right after this album was released. They opened for ELO. One of the best concerts I've ever been to.
I come from a very small town in England and bought Spartacus based on the cover photo of a mouse inside a lightbulb. On first hearing I thought it sounded very ELPish. The more you hear it, the more you realise just how good it is , and stands up to any ELP album. I bought Illusions a few weeks later(was still at school back in 75) and you could hear the ELP influence even more, but at the same time, totally different soundscapes. Both albums still stand up well over 45 years later, and don't sound as dated as a lot of prop from that era. you must do the whole of Spartacus.
This was my first Triumvirat album. Good memories from back then.
Still have my copy from all those years ago. Prefer side two. Harvest records had some great artists like The Move, Kayak, Pink Floyd, ELO, Edgar Broughton, Roy Harper, Roy Wood, Be Bop Deluxe, etc
And in 1991, the greatest pop prog classical album ever
namely
Music in Colors by Stephen Duffy (and Dr. Nigel Kennedy)
@@HippoYnYGlaw It's a fine album.... and a great collaboration
@@dancub1 wow glad you like it. The sleeve notes to the cd version state "I had been listening to a lot of Syd and early Pink Floyd and also "in a silent way" and 'Bitches Brew' era Miles Davis . I wanted to make a progressive record - hopefully for Harvest."
A shame it disappeared virtually before it was released...or maybe not eh?
Harvest...not forgetting Kevin Ayers and Pete Brown?
Thank you for giving Triumvirat a go and shining a light on another lesser-known prog band.
"Million Dollars" segment at the end of "Mr.Ten Per Cent " suite is a pure classic. As per the vocals, it is rumoured that Helmut used phonetics to sing the English lyrics as he is a unilingual German speaker!
I haven’t heard this in decades, I used to watch these guys rehearse. Great choice. Thanks Jp
Just want to make sure you received my reaction to , Illusions on a double dimple, it was classic, love❤ rhat you did an analysis on this classic album.
Please consider, Spartacus, from the same band. You'll enjoy it as well. ..,......keep up the good work loved your responses & facial expressions
Went to Sam the Record Man in early 74 on my biannual pilgrimage for tunes, Illusions On A Double Dimple was spinning so listened to it all and walk out with Tales From A Topograhic Ocean, Brain Salad Surgery and Illusions On A Double Dimple. IODD came out in 73 in Europe like BSS and TFTO. Nice review. I wore the nipples off those 3 albums.
Nice haul Les!
@@JustJP greatest time for music besides the Mozart Era.
Please do your rendition of Spartacus, your reactions to illusions on a double dimple were spot on. I love your facial reactions & unexpected time signatures.
Keep up the good work you do , your one of a kind ❤
Thank you David! :D
Wow... this is the first reaction of this group on UA-cam!
This album and Spartacus are incredible prog rock music
the other side is very good...Next one....Spartacus ? Thanks JP
Glad he got to it first, too. The source music had those small gaps between tracks, though, probably caused by ripping it from a CD.
I hardly get into Side Two that much - there are little bits borrowed from Yes, and there's even a track entitled "Roundabout".
I agree about Spartacus, it's a more consistent album, and it was more popular in the U.S.
Ty Cozy! Glad you enjoyed :)
Justin does more obscure reactions than any one out there since he goes by comments and is not pay for play. That is why he is the only reactor I check regularly.
Yes, Triumvirat are kind of the German answer to Emerson, Lake & Palmer. Dimple is a blended Scotch whiskey ("whiskey" is the spelling for Scotch and Irish, "whisky" is the spelling for Bourbon). "Blended" means the whiskey is not from a single distillery like single malts are. We definitely prefer single malts; Dimple is in our opinion the best blended whiskey there is. Our favorite whiskey is 21 years old Springbank. It is really expensive, a bottle costs close to €300. It was once voted 3rd-best whisky in the world by experts.
The correct pronunciation of "Triumvirat" is approximately "Tree-oom-vee-rut" (the "ee" has to be pronounced not with a kind of rounded mouth as in English but with the mouth stretched to the corners, the "oo" is not pronounced in the throat as in English but more in the mouth, and the last syllable is actually a long one in German, not a short one as in "rut" if you want to pronounce the band name without an accent).
Thanks for the German lesson, Jeanine and Friederike, but I can give you the whisky lesson - Scotch is always whisky, Irish and Bourbon are whiskey. As Dimple was produced by Haig and is a Scotch whisky, then it's without the 'e'. Now, as to why whisky is 'Scotch' and nearly everything else is 'Scottish', I'll leave for another day.
Thanks for the German pronunciation. I always thought their name was a play on and pronounced like triumvirant with the last syllable pronounced like the rodent, hence the rat on the cover.
@@kenl2091 I realized I messed up about whiskey/whisky shortly after I wrote it. But thanks for correcting me.
@@kenl2091 it's because the Scots are awkward buggers.
@@garyhertz5652 It is indeed a wordplay, but not the way you guessed. It is actually a mouse, not a rat. There is the German expression "weisse Mäuse sehen" ("to see white mice") which is used for having hallucinations from being totally drunk.
If you like to hear more german „Krautrock“ from the 70s, try „Birth Control“ with the song „Gamma Ray“. The live version is pure passion 🤗😎🤘
8:05 ELP YES TRiumvirat
😊😊& Thank You for silent commentar during sound ,
thats more than 1000 Words .
in the Mimik is the Truth .
I can dust my house with some of the bass notes on this album.
I believe this band started as an ELP cover band. Keyboardist Fritz sounds similar to Emerson in mixing classical.and jazz influences and in his Hammond organ sound, but doesn't sound like he's using the modular synths Emerson did. The Rickenbacker bass and high vocals don't sound like Lake. Drummer/lyricist Hans Bathelt's drums don't sound that much like Carl Palmer to me. The drum parts at several.places on both sides of this album sound very unique to me in their similarity to marching band cadences, in some cases soloing or dueting before the keyboards come in. This song also has poppy female backing vocals, which ELP never used, and backing strings, which ELP hadn't used yet.
The first several notes of the melody in the 5/4 section remind me of the first several notes of the chorus of Jethro Tull's Living in the Past, but then it diverges.
In some cases the mood of the music seems to me not to match the mood of the lyrics, but that's part of its charm.
The second half of this album is on a different topic and swaps strings for brass. One particular moment on that is very suggestive of Yes.
This band went on to record Spartacus, a full album concept divided into separate songs. The next album after Spartacus had a new singer and bassist after the old one died. It had better production but only a couple good songs. Then their album Vesuvius sounded like pure ELP to me, and after that they tried disco.
I'm so glad you're reacting to this, it's my favorite album! You're right about it getting better the more you listen to it, the second track is very much the same way. In my experience, every subsequent listen is better than the one before it. High praise considering I've lost count of the amount of times I've played this thing. If/When you listen to Mister Ten Percent, listen to the one uploaded by Classic Rock Machine, since that is probably the best sounding one on this website. Many other versions are key-shifted so beware.
Whoo Hoo!!! Got this when it came out. Still listen to it. I've heard the vocalist learned the lyrics phonetically, as English was not a language he spoke. Also classified as 'Krout Rock'. Still, a gorgeous piece of music. Given what you have 'reacted' favorably to, knew ifn you heard this, it'd be right up your alley
Nop, not a krautrock album, even though it’s from Germany, prog rock, yes, though 😉
@@EBFido1973 but ain't it all semantics tho? Did 'they' even call it prog then? Genre labels always irked me. People who are concerned in where to pidgeon hole music I find a bit tiring. And to be hypocritical here, as far as Krautrock goes, to me as they are from Germany & they are German it's Krautrock. My logic is a bit skewed, I know, but I like it😏
Double dimple: double shot of whiskey, I think.
Can you imagine an orchestral version of this?
Would be a classic!
Wow. I can't believe I missed you doing this! Jumping into some great prog! This and 'Spartacus' are their best. If they're singer/bassist/guitarist Helmut Köllen didn't die they would have gone on to bigger and greater things.
I bought this when it was new. Been a long time since I've heard it. Thanks for this! I'm also surprised that so many people on your channel know about them, but I guess I shouldn't be. There are some very musically-literate people here!
Thats for sure! I'm constantly surprised by the amount of knowledge :D
@@JustJP Please review "Sufficiently Breathless" by Captain Beyond. It's not a long song. You will make us happy and that will open you up to their other works. After all, we have been asking for this. :)
You will be surprised when I say that you will like this (as do we all) and at the same time it is not necessarily representative of their other work. Look at their musician lineups!
Will do :)
Always loved this album!!
As a background to my Labor Day cleaning it wasn’t bad. I’m not exactly a prog fan, but if I was in a rare prog mood I’d choose ELP so this would fit the bill, too. Hope you’re doing well, Justin!
Until your video I never knew what the album title meant. Dimple is a blended Scotch whiskey, so a Double Dimple is a double Scotch. In researching this on this new-fangled internet which we did not have back in 1974 I see that this is the last drink that Walter White drank in the series Breaking Bad.
This sounds like they had just heard Red by King Crimson and Brain Salad Surgery by ELP. Near miss.
i have decided that to smile and laugh when listening to music. i bought an Alana Del Rey cd for 20 pence this morning. When i opened the case there it was, an Avril Lavigne disc proclaiming "the best darn thing". I'm gonna take it back and A) demand my money back from the charidee shop B) give the disk back and pay em double for the privilege C) stop writing this and get out into the fresh air D) B, C and hunt down the missin Alana - probably in the previously by-passed Avril CD case? I'll keep you posted.
This? It's 12mins in and Spinal's Nigel Tufnell has just been sacked. I fully expect the Georgia Guidestones to appear from the lighting rig. Great Fun. Diolch.
Charity Shop CDs Update: Found the Avril Lav disc casing & cover but no Lana inside.... instead Dixie Chicks Greatest Hits. Bought that one but no sign of Miss Del Ray's disc. Wanted to buy Paloma Faith 's CD but Keane's Night Train was in that packaging.... so as I already have that CD i decided not to pursue the matter.
" We're running low on CDs" said the volunteer shop assistant.
"i'm not surprised, I'm buying them all.
5 for £1 is a good deal"
Yesterday I went in and guess what was selling for £2 each.....
Michael Jackson's History.
Asia Greatest Hits.
Script for a Jester's Tear!
and a few others which escape me. Needless to say , they stayed on the £2 shelf. If the lady who confuses the various bargain deals had been serving me, I may have purchased my first ever Asia and Marillion recordings of my life.
I think I'm becoming a tad obsessed. "Together in Electric Dreams" spans 30 years of 40 synth anthems which includes "I'm in Love with a German Film Star" - they thought the guitar was a synth obviously...not bad for 20pence eh?
JP - are friends electric?
Spartacus!
great song
Part Focus, part ELP, part Genesis.
Love me some Triumvirat. For me it's just behind ELP
If you want another song for long song Saturday, U.K. has this little number called 'Carrying No Cross'
Gotta do Rendezvous first :) (but it'll be a lil bit lol)
@@JustJP obviously you gotta do it first, lol, along with a few others. Wish it wasn't going to be a bit of a wait though, but it's ok... I'll find a way to survive 😀
Wow. Great choice, great reaction!
Ty Sapphire!
Triumvirat? Triumvirat? no one's ever heard of them! Spartacus, but it's a concept so all at once. And PFM. Saw them. Can't believe it. You are a gem.
Thanks Julie! I'm sure PFM were great live!
@@JustJP yeah, I'm gonna break your heart a wee bit here.... I saw The Lamb perfomed in its entirety when they did that tour I think 75? Suffice it to say, speechless. Top 5.
@@julieb.5860 see now thats mind-blowing! Man how i would've loved to have been there🙂
@@JustJP one last for now.... Have you seen the '79 Philadelphia Starship Trooper? Not great clarity but an undeniable gem to add to your box. And Yes. 1974 San Diego. And they did this one. It was their Tales from Topographic Oceans tour. I have a wee Jon Anderson story for another time, if you want.
This cool album was at a pad that also had Golden Earring's Moontan (highly recommended) along with Deep Purple, Captain Beyond and Blue Oyster Cult. Not the very best of the age, but damn good nevertheless.
like triumvirat, very catchy, try the italian band rustichelli bordini - "opera prima", they are in the same vain and also very good.
PS Dimple is a whisky, mid to high end. Not my tipple of choice, I'm a voddy man myself .
Cognac for me (when I can afford it).
I suspect that Triumvirat would have been in the second division of prog bands (occupied by VdGG, Caravan, Camel) (Yes, Genesis, ELP, KC, JT and PF are generally regarded as the first division) if they had been British and toured here regularly. Having said that, they have some of the best 'English accent' vocals from a European singer. Yes, it borrows a lot from ELP and other bands of 1-2 years prior, but that's no bad thing. If you're looking for other ELP clones (unfair - Triumvirat are better than that) then try Ars Nova (the female Japanese band) or Mastermind (US band with Bill Berends but first two albums only - note that, though this is a guitar-led band, it still sounds like Keith Emerson!)
I really like Kayak, a Dutch band who compose and sing in English but with a European accent. This is part of the Appeal for me.
@@lemming9984 Nothing against the various European accents (some of my favourite bands are Swedish but sing in English with a Swedish accent) but it is interesting that this is sung with a fairly convincing English accent. I have heard Kayak but tend to get them mixed up with Kaipa - my bad!
@@kenl2091 👍
You'd put Caravan, Camel and VDGG in the 2nd division?! Maybe, if your only category is pure musical technicality, but otherwise they were phenomenal.
@@pentagrammaton6793 yep. Caravan, Camel and VdGG all top tier.
In my opinion, the other track on that album (Mister Ten Percent) is even better. Glorious piano on here.
Fun fact the singer could not speak English so we had to sing the lines phoneticly
Oh man! Totally forgot about this band! I think I had the first album (that one does not look familiar). Love the descending chromatic groove in there! A little too much slap-back on the drums, otherwise, sounded great!
Known as a German ELP clone but they are a good band. This is my favorite album from them although "Spartacus" is the best known album in the States.
There are actually more quotes from The Nice than ELP. The band should not have produced titles inviting comparison such as "Lucky Girl" and "Roundabout".
Later they fell apart on albums like "A La Carte". Other albums are good ("Old Loves Die Hard").
Good band. I always got them confused with Triumph, another band active at the same time. Not sound wise, just name wise.
Lol. When you lifted the ELP album.
It opens like a West End theatre show - I can picture the lighting designer rubbing her/his/their hands together - but not particularly exciting musically. Trundles along with occasional Nice-like flourishes.
not sure how hyou could not love this right away, as this is in the upper echelon of prog music, but oky doky then! not the first time we've disagreed - not anywhere close.
If a little Scotch inspires this, imagine the result from a little 'White Lightening'! Hillbilly prog.? Been a decade or two since I've heard this, but I remember I liked 'Spartacus' more. Thanks for the long diversion from living in this sterile environment, not a 'nice nurse' on the whole ward-DAMN! Oh well back to dreamland-Peace.
Hope you're doing well James :)
@@JustJP I am thank you. Got good lab results this afternoon, blood cell counts are going up and I feel better! Great music and positive people such as yourself are the best medicine. Rock, metal, prog.Fusion, jazz, the classics, all help heal this old country dog! Peace to you my friend, may life never become a slog!
@@jamespaivapaiva4460 I'm very happy to hear that :) Wish you an enjoyable weekend!
Everybody already said it, but i can't help it: when i heard it first way back then, i thought "why listen to the copycat when you have the originals around" ? If there's an ELP track you haven't covered from their 70-77 catalogue, you're better off with the originals.
They have 3 albums worth listening to....
Old Loves Die Hard is another of their best albums - especially for the track "Believe".
A very good album indeed.
But my favs from them is Spartacus and Old Love Dies Hard.
Heck.... i like triumvirat more than ELP, because i find them more melodic.
Thou i like ELP of course...
UH OH! Next thing you know you'll be jamming to Eloy, Or Gryphon, You'd like Porcupine tree...Knowing your taste...
JP has done some Gryphon, but sadly no Eloy as of yet.
@@pentagrammaton6793 Yeah, you haven't progged until you've heard;
Atlantis' Agony At June 5th, 8498, 13 p.m. Gregorian Earthtime...:)
@@godbluffvdgg absolutely!
That's because I've listened to Ely Ocean on my own a long time ago lol :D
@@JustJP :)...You renaissance man, you! ...
Ha, the ELP wannabe, there’s parts I really like and other parts I feel it sound too much like ELP. My favourite album by Triumvirat is Spartacus. Fun fact, my uncle who is born in 1960, was a fan of Triumvirat but didn’t know ELP, I so surprised 😳 Then one day I lent him my copy of Tarkus, and he didn’t like it saying they were copying Triumvirat, lol 😂
😂
LOL You pretty much had the same reaction I did the first time I heard it. Do I like it or?
Lol! 😅
I cheated, pre-listened. Again, a band who can deffo play. And who like to mix genres, styles, but I'd not call it prog. Glad I've now heard it, but there's nothing new, exciting or very interesting here. That's not to say it wasn't salted with snippets of good stuff throughout, but overall disjointed I felt. Mainly though it's hugely derivative. I heard elements of Queen, ABBA, Khan, Bernstein, Moody Blues, and above all ELP. It was ok, but It's not inspired me to seek out more of their stuff.
I'm listening to this for the first time. It came out in 1974. It's clearly Prog, and calling it derivative is quite unfair. They have their own unique sound and they're very good. Your other criticisms are fine, but since it came out in 1974 and not 1984, I think your comparisons are irrelevant. If it came out in 1984, I'd still say it's very good and quite unique in many ways, though clearly similar too, but I'd also say it's nearly impossible to be completely unique and not similar to other music, so referring to it as derivative is silly, imo, unless you didn't mean it as a criticism.
@@Lightmane I know what you mean re being truly original in music, nigh on impossible. So it's going to be almost inevitable that there'll always be comparisons with other bands, whichever band you're thinking, of or reviewing. And that's why I'm ok using 'derivative' here. And it's not always meant as an insult, though often it can be.
There can be a fine line between a bands own inspirations, musical heroes, and out and out ripping said band off. And though i referenced a number of bands here their music touches on, there's no doubt their massive leanings towards ELP, the focus of my use of 'derivative'. As for the redundancy of my list of comparisons, I can only report who/what I hear.
However, and as I touched on, they are obviously very talented musicians, But I for one am not picking up on any uniqueness of sound here at all. Been there, heard that.....
@@jfergs.3302 another nice response from you. This is becoming a habit 🙂
@@Lightmane Always good to have a civil dialogue on, and about music. It's very subjectiveness adds greatly to our fascination with it. Here's to the next one 🙂
@@Lightmane some people have called Triumvirat a knock off ELP, which is not only a skewed comparison, but also a comparison with a band who disappeared up their own rectums by 1973 with their pointless noodling over substance.
This was a repetition of spartacus without the structures of ideas of a concept album.
drummer.........whoa! ELPish! And other stuff!
Triumvirate, or some kind of German carbon copy of Emerson, Lake & Palmer but given that there was still ELP at that time and that they themselves would decline after 1974, I don't see how Triumvirate could have brought anything new to the Table ! So ok it's well played, etc, etc.... but it's deja-vu and it's always better to favor the original than the copy.
I was never a huge fan of ELP instrumentals but at least they were great musicians & uniquely original so this sometimes wannabee ELP band never did much for me other than bore me. On my Prog ladder they would appear near the bottom.