Alfa Finally Made A German Car, Why Did It Fail? Prodrive Alfa Brera (S)
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- Опубліковано 9 лис 2022
- The Alfa Romeo Brera was a very pretty car and surprisingly for an Alfa it was well built and almost Germanic in feel...but it wasn't very good to drive, so Alfa turned to ProDrive in the Uk to re-engineer the suspension. Is this 2.2 Brera S now worthy of the Alfa heritage and should you guy one today?
If you're interested in buying this car.. Roland is selling for £9.5K. email him: rol.buckley@gmail.com
Check out Tayna Car Batteries and use the code NUMBER27YT for a further 5% off! - www.tayna.co.uk
5 - Авто та транспорт
There’s a longer and very interesting story with the 159/Brera. I can tell, partly cos I worked at Saab at the time.
This platform was developed by GM & Fiat in Italy, Germany & Sweden. I remember the italian engineers in Mölnnycke, Gothenburg around 2003-5. This new platform was to underpin Saab 9-5, Alfa 159 and I’m sure lots of other cars. Completely over-engineered, made for 2wd, 4wd and all predicted EuroNCAP test scenarios & every other eventualities. It was said it’d make 6 stars in Euro NCAP if possible.. Hence the weight.
What happened was: GM (another misstep, ever masterminds..) pulled out of the deal with Fiat and posponened the next 9-5 (i worked on it, looked at lot like the final one out in 2010 based on Opel Insignia)
So - this left Fiat (with poor economy) with no choice but putting italy’s best lawyers to sue GM for breaking their deal. Which of course, they won. Result: 60million $ and a new premium platform. Marchionne used the money to buy Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep and the platform became 159/Brera/Spider, the only cars to use that overly budgeted platform. Hence the GM/Opel/Holden-based engines & gearboxes. (Same thing with the Corsa/Punto/MiTo cars. And of course the Fiat Croma/Saab9-3/Opel Vectra connection).
Interesting chapter in Fiat/FCA/Stellantis history. But it’ll never be a connoseur’s Alfa..
I remember driving a Brera V6 4wd test car for a swedish magazine and it was 400kg’s heavier than the Fiat Coupe 20V Turbo I had at the time. The Brera was a lot slower & felt like an old S-class Merc…. (Without the space..)
Excellent info, thank you.
Good info, thanks. I drove a 159 JTD when it was a new in 2006/7. At the time I had a new E90 320d.......the Alfa was a a car I wanted to like but just couldn't quite get there. It was the 2.4 so it certainly went well but it was nowhere near as good as the BMW - you could really feel the weight, not helped by the very quick steering that seemed to accentuate the heft when changing direction quickly. Tbh it felt like a stylish Mondeo - but it did drive better than a Saab 9-3. Mind you, that's not difficult. 😂
Ex SAAB. The stories you could tell.
A channel/podcast in the making perhaps ?
Great info, thanks for posting.
The FIAT Coupé was a car from an earlier era, the 159 family weighed as much as its competitors (era of increased weights, unfortunately).
The problem is that people always expect exceptional data from the Alfa.
..And the 159 steering and security was exceptional, indeed
...they have not failed. The car was great.
Best road handling in its class. High quality car.
I have a 159 jtdm 1.9 from 2007 and it is still as new. Excellent and beautiful road driver
One of the best looking cars ever made
Agre!
Seven years ago I imported to New Zealand a 3.2 S and it is a great driving experience which continues to excite and entertain me. Recently refurbished the exterior - it's a keeper!
Sure it's an Alfa... You mentioned excite and entertain, but missed frustrate and occasionally infuriate. It's part of the love affair, so says tradition.
Had mine 6 years, never selling
Black 159 ti
My Brera has 120,000 miles on the clock and is in daily use. It still feels rock solid and there isn't a single squeak or rattle. I've come to think of it as a GT rather than a sportscar and that seems to be the role that suits it well. It's brilliant for covering distances at speed and in fantastic comfort. And because it's the 2.4 5 pot diesel it gets decent economy too. Even sounds good for a derv.
100% agree with this - it's definitely a long range cruiser - the weight helps the ride I think. Mine has one of the most comfortable seats I've ever experienced. 122k miles on mine (2.4 JTDM 210BHP) and it hasn't missed a beat. Great car
I’m approaching 200k on my 5-pot tractor, about 90k of which are mine. The only time it skipped a beat was when the alternator gave out once. Other than that, it’s been solid as a cliff. And the interior is such a nice place to be.
And I got it for a steal. What is there not to love.
Got a 2010 159 1750 Tbi Ti Saloon a few months ago, absolutely love it, it's just a gorgeous looking thing, found an invoice for a stage 1 remap done in 2019 so power is up from 200 to 240bhp so goes really well, the 1750 is the lightest of the lot (and it's a true Alfa engine) so this version handles pretty well and is not as hard on tyres and suspension parts.
That would be my pick of the bunch too. Enjoy it!
I have this - brilliant!
Still have and love my Brera S - can't work out what to move to without spending a fortune - the 2.2 jts engine was killing me though, so I bought a TBi 159, took the engine out of it and put it in the Brera. It's now amazing!
Brera is an absolutely well built car. I sold mine (1.75 Turbo) after 11 years and 160T Km. Never had any issues with it, interior, paint etc still looking and feeling brand new.
I have a bog standard 2008 2.2 JTS saloon which I bought in 2010 because I fell over when I first saw it. Hands down best car I've ever owned from every perspective - build quality, engaging drive, space,, whatever metric you want. After 13 years of ownership, still excited to get in it.
Same story me and my jtdm 1.9 sw I bought brand new in 2007
It's all to do with the badge in my opinion , it doesn't say BMW or Audi on the bonnet , if it did it would be a fantastic car because magazine reviewers love BMWs and Audi .As a 159 owner I am prepared to put up with any shortcomings because it IS an Alfa and NOT a BMW or Audi .
agreed. BeeMers and Mercs are common as muck in Ireland, But i've had people stop and ask me about my 159, and compliment how handsome it is. Alfa's are rare on Irish roads now and that adds to it IMO
I've noticed the same thing. They love German cars
Italian cars are unreliable give me a German car everyday of the week
To some extent yes, def 20 yrs ago, but the only ppl that lust after german cars today, and truly believe they are special tend, to be sheep stuck in that era for whatever reason. I mean have you seen the average bm/merc/audi driver? Hardly classy, better described as plastic gangster debt slave 🤷♂
I have an 159- unique in every way and steady on Motorway not the “floaty” Mercs or BMWs
Still looks so much better then the Gulia. Look at that beautiful grill , so much better then the dark
uninspired dead grill in the Gulia
I had one. Had the 2.4 diesel. Did 6 figure mileage in it. No issues with it at all. Epic european cruiser.
i had too 2.4jdt its the best engine alfa made. Its clos to 3.2 stock and with remap its much faster
@@martintop2605 yes l had mine remapped and dpf removed and deleted. It was close to 270bhp. My friend had a Ford Focus ST and it was nowhere near as quick as the Brera. Sold it with 126,000 miles and the car was perfect.
@@martintop2605 yes l had mine remapped and dpf removed and deleted. It was close to 270bhp. My friend had a Ford Focus ST and it was nowhere near as quick as the Brera. Sold it with 126,000 miles and the car was perfect.
@@johnthelwell3244 Nice mate my was stoc i sell it on 45k miles it was my dream car as a student. Now im driving 530d f10 dpf off and remmap on 320ps. Its on another level especially with the rear wheel steering option but i always will remember the alfa :)
@@martintop2605 "i had too 2.4jdt its the best engine alfa made" Blasphemy! 😁
Good video - thank you. I agree with you that the 2.2 JTS is a good engine. I have it in my Brera Spider and it does sound great when reved out. Any car that good looking can't be bad.
I have the Spider and I love it even with the roof faults
Still makes me smile every time I drive it and there are so few about
The observations about the 2.2 engine's power profile allied to gearing - the Brera / Brera S has a very low 1st gear and a largely redundant 5th. I often wonder if the formulation had its origins in the need to meet the demands of Northern Italy's topography. ( I remember one old mechanic mentioned this about Lancias ). On those winding roads off the autostrada the gearing might be truly useful. As it is it is the intermediates that matter in the UK and they keep the car on heat quite nicely.
Glad you mention the interior quality. I was immensely impressed by the interior of my 159. It felt really well put together and exclusive, more so than than the interior of my current Stelvio Q. Great video as always!
Um no. The Giulia/Stelvio have fine interiors. The ARs from that time frame were not great in terms of interior quality. Beautiful and some were nice drivers.
i had brera 2.4jtd the interior its one step better than 159 bcs the car its in the factory of pininfiarina. (not by alfa)
@@DavidM-mb1vx I agree with Road of Plenty. The 159/Brera had an outstanding dash layout for the day. Smart and classical. The Giulia is just not as special to sit in and use.
@@DavidM-mb1vx There's nothing wrong with the interior quality of the Stelvio/Giulia, but I perceived the quality as higher in my 159, which I owned for over eight years.
Can you tell me about the seating position... Never driven a Brera/159, but I've driven a GT, felt like driving a bus, pedals are too close and too los, legs don't stretch like in a proper car, it feels like you sit on top of the pedals and you push them downwards... Is it the same situation with the Brera?
I love my 3.2 v6 SV Brera.... It has the 4 wheel drive and the glass panoramic roof with electric retractable headlining blind that the S version doesn't have, both of which are excellent. Yes it's a heavy car, but it's very nicely put together, looks gorgeous, sounds awesome with its Wizard stainless exhaust system and is currently having its rather tired standard suspension changed for Eibach coil overs all round.
I reckon that iteration of the model is destined for higher status in time to come.
@@keyboarddancers7751 I agree
3.2 V6 Q4 SV
@@colinwatson4172.. Or as the lady at the insurance company said "oh that's a long name isn't it?"
@@bingonightly . 500 road tax was to long a number back in 2012.
I had two Breras,the first was a 2006 V6 3,2 ,Carbon metallic black with red leather inside,and the second one was a 2009 1750 Turbo,white,also with red leather interiors. Beautiful car,the V6 was nice and brilliant but heavy,with the nonsense of the four wheel drive,that adds weight,increases fuel consumption and is boring to drive.The 1750 Turbo was much lighter,but very smooth,and with the front wheel drive had a very good handling and had a very very low fuel consumption. I upgraded the V6 from 260 to 300 bhp,and the 1750 Turbo from 200 to 230 bhp and they were much more Alfa after that power injection,with a nice sound from the exhausts imported from britain. I have to say that the much criticized Holden/Alfa V6 was a very good engine,nothing less than the Busso with a lot of torque and a deeper sound.The 1750 Turbo engine was the base for the 4C engine,but had not the light alloy block of the 4C.Both were very good cars,and I travelled a lot with them for business and on holidays. High quality and very comfortable interiors and ideal dimensions with a good capacity trunk. I have happy and good rememberings of my Breras,infact I had two of them,with only one regret: if only Alfa would have made them with rear wheel drive....Ciao Giacomo,è incredibile,provi sempre le mie macchine!!!!
Best car ever. Very few people really understand the Brera and its issues and required amendments. Looks fantastic, feels fantastic, the quality is amazing, and you can even get it to sound great. Best case, you can get it to 215 BHP 0-60 7 sec MAX. Speed is not as important as how you feel getting there!
Just bought an FN2 Type-R Civic, but I was seriously considering one of these. My last Alfa was a 156 Twin Spark which I could fling around corners 10-20mph faster than any car I'd owned before. The Brera is still a beauty.
I had a 2.4 JTD, I made modified the cartography of the engine, change the anti roll bar and the geometry of the wheel all made in alfa Romeo in Italy and the car was really great to handle. I really had a great time with it.
Had one of these. Not the Prodrive. 2.2 Brera in Montecarlo blue with the two tone blue and tobacco interior. Loved it, never let me down, gorgeous interior.
Dynamically wasn’t great and there was a flat spot low in the rev range, but it was so glorious to look at and sit in.
I think of it as a small grand tourer.
Lovely colour combination! What wheels were on it?
@@owensteele1645 don’t know what they’re called. The five spoke five hole design, 17”. Not those on the car in the video.
I’ve checked it on the DVLA site and not longer on there. Perhaps had a change of number plate but I fear it’s been written off.
@@owensteele1645 don’t know what they’re called. The five spoke five hole design, 17”. Not those on the car in the video.
I’ve checked it on the DVLA site and not longer on there. Perhaps had a change of number plate but I fear it’s been written off.
If Alfa’s from about 15 years ago were available for us here in the US, I think I would have already owned one by now. Brera, 159, 147GTA…so many great ones to choose from!
I'm sure (without checking) that you are able to import older cars into the US. They have to be over 15 or 20 years old. I have a Brera, and my GTV6 with me in the UK was an ex Florida car. I imported it into Canada, and then to the UK when I moved here.
The brera was the car I loved as a teenager and got one in my mid 20s a 2.2 non S. Quality was really impressive, you could feel the weight though and the engine was a bit flat to me it made you never want to push it in corners. A fantastic long distance driver but not one for windy country roads I went back to a 147 with a smaller engine for a more enjoyable drive. Still glad I did it though.
I have a 159 tbi - with the 1750 turbo engine. It’s very nearly a match for the V6, even in its detuned version. Mine has been remapped to a bit above Giulietta QV spec, which makes it a totally different car - shedloads of torque, even low down. If you can find one, try a Brera with the 1750 engine, far lighter too!
Thanks for the video - enjoyed it very much.
Great looking car!!!
I have a 2.2 S and I absolutely love it! Yes, it costs to keep it on the road but it’s definitely worth all of the effort. The cabin just feels fantastic, a perfect place to carry out your driving business 😎🚘
The 1750 Turbo was the car to have. Also for the Brera.
Absolutely right. The GM ones were all rather kame, but the 1750 transformed both the engine and chassis dynamics. A much better car than any other Brera in my opinion.
It's a better engine overall, but it sounds like crap.
I am Brera 2.2 Jts owner. For me, was the best to have, after the 3.2 V6, because i have no any confidence in turbo motors, in all constructors... With atmospherical motors, no turbo broken....
@@AC-busso I've driven hundreds of thousands of kilometres with various turbo- and supercharged engines, without a single one failing. Your argument may be valid, but on a scale of the average user it's irrelevant. Especially since in the case of the 159/Brera, the TBi is a more reliable engine than the JTS.
@@louisk6485 Yes, maybe i thinks such way, because of ancient turbo generations, not water cooled) Anyway, i knows people with turbo worries, with not sport cars, as Scenic diesel turbo... The cost of replacement is always expensive, and never the fault of constructors, despite many owners cases... That's why)
I love the Brera ! When it first came out I wanted it so bad. The design was amazing and as Jack said the quality of the interior was really high. I do think that the Brera was underrated and not well understood at the time of its release - however I am sure the appreciation for Brera will become really high in future and it will be quite desirable Alfa to have. Thank you Jack for this wonderful video 👏🏻
I remember very well when they came out on the market.
I was in primary school and as I still do to this day, I loved cars.
When I saw one on the road, as a kid, I imagined it belonged to someone who had a lot of money and who was successful meaning he could afford himself a little present in the guise of a Brera.
The icing on the cake was when I got Need for Speed Carbon on PS2.
The Brera was one of the starters cars if I remember well and I really loved it right away!
A comparison with the GT from the same era would be really great in my opinion ;)
Cheers from Belgium!
🙋♂️ nice story
Alfa Romeo wasn't available in the USA when these came out but I loved the styling. I had one in Need for Speed Carbon.
Great design by Giorgetto Giugiaro! has aged really well better designed than any of it's rivals at the time! The 159Ti was also gorgeous! at the time again better than the opposition. I would like to see Alfa launch an all-new Mito or Brera but this time get it right the first time as they have with the new Maserati recently the MC20.
You are right. Have You idea about the Series 3 design from the same era?
@@studiocalder818 Yes I have an idea about the 3 Series from the same era being overrated not such an incredible car when you began to analyze it the E90 design was mediocre compared to it's predecessors the E30, and E21. The Alfa was the better car all round!
Oh man that is a REALLY nice looking car that I never knew existed until now. I'd have one based on the appearance alone. Thanks for the show and tell Jack.
I have a Brera S 2.2 , it's my daily and I absolutely love it, I've had a few Alfa's including 3 Busso engined cars and a whole host of TS engined cars a 1.4 MA and a 2.0 JTS . The Brera stacks up well on balance against My prior Alfa's and tellingly I have no plans to sell or replace it , which after a year is a record for me with cars in general , my boxster S and TTS each lasted less than a year before being sold on..
I do have a remap from Ce!tic Tuning ( 210 BHP ) a centre silencer delete and a pipercross filter, the famous flat spot is gone and torque low down and across the whole rev range is hugely improved, an absolute must in this car IMHO, I'm happy with the power available and don't feel anymore is required for road use.
Mine revs to 7300 , and the 2.2 loves having it's neck wrung , I was surprised at how good this little engine is considering it's reputation...I tried the 3.2 S as well and found it nose heavy ...The 1750 TBI is probably the best engine to have but they are rare and only available in the Italia Independiente ' model which doesn't benefit from the prodrive tweaks....so for me 2.2 S is the one to have ( unless you buy a 1750 and take it to Peter Cambridge for the Prodrive pack ) if considering it just buy one , you won't be disappointed.
AS another comment mentions I have some questions regarding the authenticity of this car. I own a Brera PRODRIVE 2.2 and I can attest to the fact that Prodrive fitted custom backpack boxes to the exhaust with SS tips that are different (and etched with the Prodrive name. The tailpipes on this car are standard Brera spec!
Hi David - I’m the owner of the Brera in the video. As you quite rightly point out - the tailpipes are standard Brera (the original Prodrive tailpipes on this car sadly perished with general wear and tear and were replaced in 2018 with standard Brera tailpipes as the originals were bespoke and are thus unavailable). The car is 100% authentic Prodrive (Alfa Romeo UK confirmed this when I was purchasing the car) and it comes with the original numbered and signed certificate and hardback book (as shown in the video). Hope this clears up any uncertainty, Roland.
I think it's quite important to add, that all the issues in the handling department are pretty much non-existent in the TI versions. Those are the ones to get if you want a sporty drive.
Ciao Giac, FYI, back in the old days, the chassis (called the Premium platform) was being co-developed with Saab in Trollhatten. As I understand, Saab walked away (typical GM), and Alfa was stuck with the platform. The GM / Fiat JV was not the best, but at least Marchionne got enough money from GM to keep Fiat going.
I REALLY LIKE THIS CAR JUST BECAUSE IT IS SO DOGGONE BEAUTIFUL. LOVE THE TRIPLE ROUND HEADLIGHTS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE GRILL, THE GRILL ITSELF, THE RAKISH TAPERED NOSE WITH STYLE NOTES FROM THE MONTREAL, THE SMOOTH CHAMFERING OF THE BODY LINES AS THEY FLOW BACK TO THE TIDY REAR END, THE SOLIDLY BUILT AND BEAUTIFULLY FITTED INTERIOR USING QUALITY MATERIALS SKILFULLY APPLIED. It is a MASTERFUL EXPRESSION OF A DESIGN PHILOSOPHY THAT COMBINES THE PRINCIPLES OF FORM FOLLOWS FUNCTION WITH A REFINED AND SOPHISTICATED AESTHETIC SENSE. The only GAFF that could be applied to the EXTERIOR would be the nearly complete blocking of the REAR THREE QUARTER VIEW which is/was a POPULAR STYLING CUE but WASN'T NECESSARY TO DO. IN FACT, YOU CAN SEE THAT THE WINDOW LINE WAS DELIBERATELY DISRUPTED BY BODY PANELS. YOU CAN SEE THAT THE WINDOW GLASS LINE WOULD HAVE NATURALLY CONTINUED THERE AND PROVIDED A GOOD CLEAR VIEW ALL AROUND, WHICH IS PART OF HAVING GOOD DRIVING SKILLS. ALAS, THIS CONCESSION TO A POPULAR TREND IS ALL TOO FAMILIAR and is REPEATED IN OTHER CARS, SUCH AS THE MAZDA 3. LOVED THE LITTLE ROUND ANALOG GUAGES ALIGNED NEATLY BELOW THE AIR VENTS and ABOVE THE RADIO. They give the DRIVER VITAL INFO AT A GLANCE WITHOUT NEEDLESS SCREEN READING. THEY'RE RECESSED TO ELIMINATE GLARE, which is a BIG PROBLEM ON THE MONSTROUS SCREEN DISPLAY APPLICATIONS SO PROMINENT IN CURRENT DASH DESIGNS. THE ANALOG GUAGES ARE NOT VULNERABLE TO SYSTEM BLACKOUTS OF FLY-BY-WIRE CONTROLS. A NEATLY DONE JOB USING TIME-TESTED AND PROVEN TECHNOLOGY, NONE OF THIS LATEST RAVE NONSENSE OF GARISH OVER-THE-TOP ELECTRONIC SCREENS ONLY CONTROLS. TESLA BE DAMNED. THIS IS A TRUE DRIVER'S CAR WITH MODERN LINES and a SOPHISTICATED MATURE DESIGN PHILOSOPHY. IT IS A COMBINATION OF TEUTONIC SOLIDITY and BEAUTIFUL ITALIAN CAR CRAFTSMANSHIP. A HEARTY WELL DONE LADS and HATS OFF TO THE DESIGN TEAM, the BUILD TEAM and ESPECIALLY MAESTRO MARCHIONNE. This VEHICLE IS A LONG TERM DAILY DRIVER and a COLLECTOR'S CHOICE. ANDIAMO.
Brilliant video jack 👍 what a beautiful car Brilliantly narrated
As you said at the end 'if you live in a place with good roads'. One thing I found with my Brera was that they are horrendous for stone chips around the wheel arches, front and rear. Bear this in mind if you are buying one nowdays because they can easy be 'smart repaired' and will look great for 6 weeks before it all comes off. On the Prodrive they also included stone/mud guards, I would recommend getting these fitted if not already installed. It's still my favourite car to drive briskly through winding B roads.
You sum up the brera perfectly, I think. Sure, there will have been better cars at the time if you wanted a really sporty car, but if you look at it as a really stylish grand tourer, it is one of the Italian greats. Almost up there with the montréal you tested recently 🙂. There's this sentiment I sometimes feel with journalists testing an Alfa, that they almost want to find faults, because an Alfa or any car that looks that beautiful "can't be perfect". That's a real shame, I think, because the brand deserves to do so well.
Very good video, a friend of mine had one and he loved it.
From my experience it seems Alfa Romeo will always be received critically. People expect flaws whether they are present or not. Minor issues result in total condemnation. While a German car will be forgiven, an Italian car will never be.
I loved my 159 2.2 Ti. Hard to fault really, other than the fact it ate front tires and needed revving to enjoy the performance.
The interior always made me feel happy and it was really comfortable to drive. Sad I sold it but I rarely keep a car more than a few years.
I love my black Brera 2.2 JTS. Feels like a Golf II GTI but sounds much better and its design is timeless.
I own a 2.0jtdm (which is one of the last two engines put in production before the Brera was shut down) and especially when compared to the previous models (like my Q7 GT) the finish are on a completely another level thank goodness
Hi. Love to get your perspective on an S2000. Thanks!
Addendum: found you S2K review.
The Brera is a lovely car, I think personally they look fantastic in red 😍. Great stuff as always Jack 👍
Cheers Ryan, keep well Buddy!
Brera is great project car for mid-advanced tuners who can financially handle a bit more than a low budget. Buy it about 12k, invest about as much...and you have amazing great looking GT....
I liked it too! Very nice interior and smart outside! Could be a good choice! Tanks Jack!
What can I say.
I've got red Brera with 2.4 jtdm engine with ProDrive 19" wheels but with all the environmental stuff removed. Reprogramed to be as brutal as it can get with loads of black exhaust smoke when accelerating. Quite embarrassing but fun. Probably about 240HP and 450-500Nm.
Now it is stock setup but with a little bit lower suspension.
It is on rails through the corners but I would still prefer rear wheel drive.
Recently we bought 159SW because Brera is not a bicycle friendly car and it is better not to be street abused.
Although interior looks mostly the same, driving characteristics are complete different.
Sitting position is higher in 159, wheel base is longer, ... Everything is a little bit soggier.
Although 159 sits on 18" wheels, new tires and suspension is in decent form, it doesn't feel that is derived from the same car platform.
Alfa's have always been pretty car's, I've only driven one 30 years ago from Brisbane to Sydney and back, and that little 78 Alfa Sud ti was a pleasure to drive.
Really good summary. I've been driving a standard '08 2.2 for seven years now and I enjoy the experience now as much as I did when I bought it. You're absolutely right about the performance, but it does me fine as I see it as a GT ultimately. For long drives it's so comfortable, plus, the fact it's a little different means a lot to me. With there being so many bland, german cars on the roads, the 'exclusivity' definitely counts for something.
The 159 and the Brera were the return to beautiful Alfa Romeos.
I still cry that I sold my red 159 JTDm but the Dutch who punish the Diesels by an impressive road tax of € 1700 per year made me sell it.
Without a doubt it was the finest saloon car I ever had.
Really.
One of those car that when you've parked it you'd look at it over your shoulder.
And about driving, I could corner my 159 so fast that the blood would drain from your brain, the criticism of the heavy nose and the road holding was just copy paste from so called 'car journalists'
It was really great on 18" Hankook tyres believe it or not.
And I did a goo quarter of a million kilometers in mine.
God I loved that car, perhaps because it was NOT perfect, perfectionism is in fact boring !
Thank you Jack. Great stream
Such a gorgeous automobile...I really was sad about the reviews back in the day, but even felt as a beautiful around town car it was still very desirable...that is actually a good price for that car because in the US I am not sure if they ever were sold here, so hen's teeth over here and worth to have it shipped over I feel. Great Video as always, you're really getting awesome cars!
Going straight over to watch the Pantera video!...👍
I’ve had loads of Alfas including a 2.2 159Ti & 2 V6 Q4 Breras. The V6 Breras were great GT cars. Lots of Italy trips in mine. Only downside was fuel consumption. Ran them alongside a V6 Busso GT.
Jack I have a 159 2.2 JTS Sportwagon with Brera S spec suspension! The marketing was badly done from FIAT auto SPA. The car was a product of German Karl Heinz Kalbfel. Hé wantet an Alfa Romeo in BMW 3 series size with quality of the BMW 5 series. The 159 was not the new model of the 156 it head to replace the 156 and the 166. The press mainly the German press startet about the waith it was not that heavy if you look at Audi's and BMW's at the time yes it was a lot more heavy then the 156! Stil is a great car i love it ❤️🇮🇹💪🏻
Great video on a beautiful car. I was very tempted to buy a Brera but eventually chose a GT instead. In the end it was the lure of the Busso that won me over and we also had a 159 wagon as our other car so we got to see that stunning face every day anyway.
I think another reason for the Brera’s failure, at least here in Australia, is Alfa’s dismal product planning. The dealerships had to contend with trying to sell two very expensive sports/GT cars at the same time. I can’t imagine what it would’ve been like for the salesmen to try to explain the differences between the GT and the Brera and which would be better suited to that customer. So both ended up sitting in the showrooms, not selling. There’s also no doubt the switch to the GM based engines was a turn off for traditional Alfa buyers.
The main reason it didn't sell was that it was shit...! Simple as that!
Your GT must have one of the last-produced Busso units. I was a valeter at a Fiat/Alfa dealer in Exeter, South West England from 2005 to 2011. The last-ever Busso-engined new car they sold was an ex-demonstrator December 2005 silver-with-red-leather GT 3.2 V6 WD55KDN. They never sold another new one like it since. It was absolutely awesome, very quick, smooth and looked gorgeous under the bonnet. I do remember these cars well and I miss those times.
@@owensteele1645 mine is a 2007 build. In Australia we got V6 GTs until 2010. The final ones sold were a 100th anniversary edition with special badging, different wheels and silver wing mirrors, as well as a greatly reduced price to clear them out of the showrooms.
Any car with the engine completely outside of the wheelbase is a problem. To me with an Alfa that is just wrong. I’m glad they are correcting that now with proper rear wheel drive cars.
I honestly believe the Brera was simply misjudged by the car reviewers and then most people just went with it. The car is simply too big and heavy to be a "sporty little coupe" as you put it also (3:22). I would look at it more as a 2+2 hatchback/shooting break style grand tourer. and it's just drop dead gorgeous, I honestly think Giugiaro outdid themselves with the bodywork on the 159 but especially the Brera, it's just a stunning looking car.
Brera in Alfa red, with the TI package and 1750 TBi, hard time finding a better looking car.
Hi love the show if your thinking of 159 …I had 2.4 diesel with stage 1 map250 bhp it really makes the car a different beast😊 it did drive very nice and it was ti version with lots of toque too
Nice looking. Unfortunately we probably didn't get those here in the States. Great video as always. Can you imagine doing the Prodrive mods to a 159?
That would be great!
Being a 3.2Q4 Brera owner, I have wondered about the prodrive upgrade, so appreciate your review.
Living in Australia where the roads are just okay, I find myself driving to avoid bumps in the city, but on fast long distance driving (+400kms) this car performs beautifully, admittedly I have replaced the front end wishbones, engine mounts and steering ends, but only to factory. It handles great, with an engine that spins up for effortless overtaking, always a joy to drive.
Fit and finish, definitely worth a second look.
I too have the 3.2 Q4 here in Tassie. And I spent the money, imported the Prodrive rims (with Ti lugnuts), shocks and springs. Mine was a Series 1 with gorgeous two tone interior so I fitted the lightened suspension setup as well off the Series 2 and of course a nice TI spec steering wheel. Exo is by Wizard and I had them fit the Prodrive back box tips (nice D shapes to mirror the rear lights). The Brera in this video doesnt have the right rear boxes so maybe isnt a true S?
Mine is stunning looking (argento with silver rims), good handling on our winding mountain roads. Next up - full headers and maybe fit the supercharger to get the boost the engine needs. Maybe even a set of 19 or 20" Fuchs forged rims?
I considered buying a Brera a few years ago. They look amazing, but, the packaging is awful - what’s the point of fitting rear seats if no one can use them? The GT Coupe is a much more practical, and yet, still beautiful coupe.
Awesome car. Wish they made something like this model early on in the cars life. I would take this well built Alfa over the other type.
Those roads look just like in north Norfolk!
I'm lucky enough to have a 1750 TBi Brera, one of only about 65 ever made in the UK before the Brera platform was culled entirely. Peter Cambridge the engineer in charge of the Prodrive programme told me that they always intended to produce a Prodrive model with the 1750 engine as it was not only Euro 6 compliant but much lighter and easily tuneable than the other two petrols. However, around the time of the financial crisis in 2007/2008 any further budgets for R&D into the platform completely dried up and it never made it into existence. If it had I genuinely think it would have given the Brera the more sporty feel I think it needed. As a result, the platform is instead a fantastic GT cruiser with sports car looks.
I also have the 1750Tbi and I had the pro drive suspension added from Peters company and the geometry set up by Peter. Love the car, with all of it’s usual Alfa electrical gremlins. I haven’t done a remap as I think it’s fine at 200bhp. I may change the exhaust to a Wizard set up when the original has had it because it is so quiet it may as well be electric! Not what you want in an Alfa.
Very nice car,my friend had one and had a few issues but that’s Alfas for you.
Brilliant video. Definitely one for my lottery winning hanger full of cars. If there has ever been a better looking car, no-one sent me the memo 😀
I had the Spider 3.2, and it was a great little tourer. Wish I still had it in the garage!
I bought a 3.2l V6 Brera as my first ever car a year ago. I love it to death but it just felt way too slow
So I've put a supercharger on it xD
Went from 260hp to 345 with 430nm torque
New suspension, bigger brakes. Now it's a real Alfa!!!!
I've just bought an Alfa Berera spider, 2010 on a 10 plate, it had a clutch-gearbox problem, wouldn't engage gear or drive, although low mileage, only 47600 miles with full Alfa history
Won it on a certain auction site, got a bargain. I had it trailered straight to my mechanic, it was a cheap fix, it was only a problem with the clutch pushrod clip, it had fractured. Collecting it Thursday, left it with him to carry out a full service, and to get the wheels refurbished, and have a couple of minor bumper scuffs done. I've never driven one, can't wait to collect it. Gorgeous looking vehicle.
The Alfa Brera 1750 tbi italia independent in the matt Silver remapped to 250bhp were the pick of the bunch lighter and as powerful almost as the V6 3.2. I think theirs only around 40 on uk roads.
I will say that the gear change is very good - the early M32 gearboxes were made of chocolate, but the later M40 is good.
The gearboxes themselves are very strong and can handle ample power, the feel of the change on the M32 is as you say, tight and precise. Unfortunately it's the output shaft bearings that are the weak points, they tend to wear over time and require replacement. Upgraded sets exist and a gearbox overhaul isn't as expensive as you might expect due to this box being common to a whole host of Vauxhalls.
M32 change oil every 2 years and there should be no problems.
M32 is a german box by Getrag, a good company.
6th gear bearing issue, can occur even if you never use 6th gear…
@@richardw1992 It’s not the output shaft that are the “weak points” on the M32 but oil starvation to them. The upgraded end plate addresses this with more and direct oil feed channels. Knowing this when I bought my 159 I changed the gearbox oil and put in 500 ml extra when topping up and it’s now on 157,000 miles with no issues.
Happy you picked this Alfa. As you say, great looks, and (as so often) Alfa didn't follow through with the engine and chassis. Being front wheel drive didn't help. This same car on the Giulia layout and engine would have been a smashing success...and we could have had them here in the US. And if Alfa would come out with a Giulia coupe, this would be the perfect proto type...but only in rear wheel drive. How bad are things for Alfa in the UK...can they survive?
Used to own the V6 Q4 version. Loved every moment of ownership. But it was heavy and very expensive on fuel (just 320km to a full tank!). The Frau leather, aluminium fascia and inserts and design were lovely. The GM based engine willing. Unfairly maligned. Still today, a stunning car on the road.
People who bought Alfas did that for their handling and sporty feel in spite of the reliability issues. They built a car which was exactly the opposite so no wonder it didn't resonate with their fans. Not to mention they dropped the Busso V6. Nobody cares a about GM engines.
Jeremy Clarkson once said "You are not a true petrol head unless you own or owned a Alfa Romeo"
I have owned 3
A 156 2.5 V6 in Alfa red with the awesome bridged spoiler on the boot..
A 2.2 Brera Prodrive S But i be honest I really couldn't get on with that engine sorry!
But i own now a 3.2 V6 Prodrive S edition N° 86 With under 59000 miles on the clock Absolutely love it
❤
Love the design. The new Mazda 3 design reminds me of the brera. Mainly the proportions, front end and back window.
They are great cars. Rock solid. Yes more like a grand tourer really but still great.
I love Alfas and the Brera is stunning to look at. Problem was it wasn't quick enough. I bought an E92 335i coupe instead. That was lacking an LSD but still as quick as the E46 M3 , still on sale at the time. Not as good looking as a Brera but a bit of a sleeper that used to surprise Audi TT drivers among others.
Thanks for your video.
Yes, it's a to heavy car, but I wasn't intrigued by that when I wanted to buy a cabriolet when the brera was new. But when I saw that it offered slim 260kg maximum load for the passengers and me, very tall guy, could not take a second person with me legally it was out of discussion. Really stupid, my ktm Duke can handle that weight. So sad, because it's such a nice car.
That front end is a masterpiece...still lust after a 159tbi wagon
The Alfa styling is beautiful. I would be able to overlook the slight shortcomings.😉
What a shame, its such a beautiful car.Thanks for the video Jack
I've owned Seven Alfas and absolutely love them , My Brera was a stunning car to drive and look at, in fact by my view one of the most beautiful cars ever created. The build is also extremely good but its power plants are very underpowered and let the whole design down, in the three years I had my Brera it never let me down once and also didn't spend a penny on anything else other than maintaining the car, apart from the GTV we had it was the only car you look back at after parking it and in Rosso corsa the best color with horseshoe alloys on .
Any thoughts on the 1.7 TBi? It's an engine I'm not familiar with but the stats are impressive. I know it was available on the Brera late in its life but finding one is surprisingly difficult!
Had a Brera as a rental car for a few days a long time ago. Still remember that I really liked it! 🙂
Had the V6 S from new and it’s still my favourite car I have ever owned. Liked a drink though! Sadly, sold it for something more practical a long time ago 😢
Never heard of this one! Great!😁🛠️
Thank you for talking about alfa
I looked at buying a 5 year old Brera a few years ago. Had the 2.4JTD diesel. I was hugely impressed, I agree that the fit and finish on the interior was superb, I would argue better than many of the contemporary German cars. The JTD was a great diesel engine as well, loads of grunt and very smooth. Took the car for a test drive on a local dual carriageway, as a new car to me didn't have the same awareness of speed, the salesman had to point out did I release I was doing 90! Not pushing the car, I thought I was just comfortably cruising around 70. It really did feel very grown up and sophisticated. Unfortunately the comedy back seats were just too much of an issue at the time as I did need to occasionally take people in the back who were older than about 5 or who actually had legs!
I have the 159 and it really shows that the platform was intended for way bigger cars. I've repaired some holes in the sills and the dimensions and sturdiness of the chassis and body is almost overexaggerated! One of Alfa's key points was the torque rigidity of the body.
Right
One of the big issues with the 159 was indeed that it was perceived as a replacement for the 166 rather than the 156 due to its size, while not being really targeted as being one. I've actually been asked many times the question "ah, this came after the 166, right?" about my own 159.
This became an issue 'cause the general public compared it with the likes of a 5 Series, E Klasse and A6 - cars from a higher market segment and with which, obviously, the 159 was never equipped to compete with - nor it was ever meant to be.
The "over engineering" had one real positive effect - have you ever seen what remains of a car that was involved in a collision with a 159/Brera? It's usually carnage, they look like they hit a truck.Well, positive as long as you're the one in the Alfa, of course...
I have and i drive the Spyder version of the Brera
She is my daily car, I really like it from the first time i see and drive Her 🤩
The best engine on Brera is the 2.4L Diesel 5 cylinder 210CV and the 1.750L Gasoline 4 cylinder 200CV; both engine are relaiable, cheap to mantain and is easy to get 300CV with tuned ECU, turbo etc... 🤫
I have the diesel one with 250k km, She is already a fast car and she haven`t fear of the modern german and non car
(Sometimes i race with my friend Diesel bi-turbo 210cv Mercedes Benz , in the road with many curves i always win 😆)
Yes despite the weight is a car with a perfect hadling, you can turn off the traction control for have more fun in the drive
Yes she is too heavy and if U want buy Her , get the manual transmission because the automatic is really awful, its old and you lose the feeling that only a manual Alfa can give to U
In the future when i will break the engine, i want to put a Dodge Hemi in the engine bay 🤪
As an American my introduction to the Brera and Alfa Romeo was through NFS Carbon. This was one of the starter cars in the game, I remember as a kid thinking "Hey that almost looks good." Easily the coolest looking "hatch"
I had a 146 2.0 T and some time later a Brera and i loved them both. 146 was and amazing drive and the Brera was beautiful. The windows kept opening all by themselves so i'd discover a soggy car on some mornings. But fond memories.... then i got married and had kids.
Promises so much and very pretty in my opinion and not expensive used. It looks like Prodrive delivered what the factory didn’t.
Ill be getting the 3.2 for my bday!
I loved my 2.2 jts Brera, despite its faults. Like a battery earth cable chafing through under the battery tray and taking the garage a week to find the defect! Or the complete loss of braking, at speed on two occasions! Or the headlights that are put to shame by tea lights - had to fit an HID kit. Howevers, I fixed the notorious hesitancy/flat spots, by fitting Prodrive rear boxes. Would I have another? Absolutely!
I do miss mine. Heavy yes, but when a 40 Ton Truck totalled my Passenger Door when I was entering the parking of Panalpina, yes the Door skin was out of action, but the body work dudes did the repairs they didn't have to replace ANY of the Interior of that door. And even that it wasn't anywhere as nice to drive as my old Sprint Veloce in the past, it WAS secure and planted. Mine was a 2.4 JTDM diesel, TONS of Torque Celtic Tuned to 250 BHP too, and took me over 260 Thousand KM with very little servicing and what killed it was front L/H suspension failure (I smacked a 'Road repair Step' on the way to Arlon which should have been a ramp !!!!). The cost of repairs was eye watering. Now my current Alfa is a Guiletta1.4 TB, total crap.
Also for me the Giulietta is nothing special. There is a kind of competition to criticize Alfas, but only those that are worth it for 😁
Can you guys explain what is wrong with the Giulietta? Most comments I've heard have been positive.
Well, I've never driven it.
I don't really like the interior and from friends who have it it looks like a pretty normal car to me.
The fact is that you expect more from Alfa
@@varmastiko2908 I have one a 1.4 TB and it is nothing special at all. If you have ever driven a Sud Sprint Veloce, GTV 2.5, old Guilia Super, or 164 3.0 or 2.0 then you can understand what I am saying, I have driven Alfas for over 35 Years. If not, you never will. Sure it feels well put together but it has none of that Alfa 'Sparkle'. No Fizz, it is as dull as a dull thing. Even the Engine sound is boring. I only bought it as I had to sell the Brera on and wanted another 'Modern' Alfa. Marry in haste, repent at leisure as they say.
@@packtech I guess it depends on what you compare it to. Compare to legendary Alfas of the past and you will be disappointed. Compare to a VW Golf and it's a very different story.
An interesting review as always, thank-you! As an Alfisti, it's not always easy to be dispassionate but we must be or the cars won't improve. I had a 159 2.4Ti that I spent a huge amount on making it handle better. It worked but then it's an Alfa..... I shouldn't have to spend money making it handle! The whole design of the Brera, Spyder and 159 is all wrong in terms of the engine being way too far forward. It's actually forward of the imagined front axle which is ludicrous. IMO the 159 and Brera should have been the reintroduction of RWD with a transaxle. Just think of it!