Thanks for your leadership and ideas! My results aren't making anyone wonder if im on ped's but id still pay for the certified clean tests to do my small part to amplify it
Man, really appreciate you bringing in hard data into this conversation. Even as someone who's in the CF space and loves to watch competitions, it's hard to know what's real and what's fake and who to trust. Thanks for shining some light on this topic, because I think ignoring it only makes it worse (and more uncomfortable for outsiders)
Great stuff man. All of these are great. I love the certified clean idea. Yes, would pay more. Also, I think 0 exceptions for TRT. Take it if you need but not allowed as a competitor.
Thanks Jason, Bergers and Mike. I would gladly pay more to have ALL Games athletes tested. If we charge an extra $10 for QF athletes (1500 x $10= $15,000) and $50 for SF (200 x $50 = $10,000) this would total $25,000 PER gender and age group. Is $25,000 enough to test ALL Games athletes? I love the fine idea. Maybe we could affiliate with a drug testing company for self verification? I'd support all of these ideas.
Really like the certified clean idea. I think in addition to a fine for anyone returning to the sport after a ban there should be a probationary period where they are extensively randomly tested.
Great video - fully aligned. Assuming 4% popped means assuming 8-15% use is like assuming taking all speeding tickets and multiplying by 2 to 4 = the number of times people drive too fast 😉 meta-studies including anonymous surveys etc. indicate the real number is probably higher. Regarding your suggestions: agreed. - no access to prize purses without certification - re-entry requires $5k or more (link it to the cost of e.g. 10 annual drug testing/certification "packages") - Assign eg 5% of ticket sales to drug testing for any CrossFit licensed event; for others it should become the norm to publish how many and what kinds of tests were run - use latest tech to broaden what is tested for (eg LC-MS/MS) - work with anti-fraud experts to profile Open results and published PRs and PR trends etc to drive sampling - maybe we also need test-free comps for the community that only cares about performance- like some Strongman comps
Cool video, I was competing on a Team in Alabama and was also able to cheer on a friend who was competing individually, and he is unfortunately one of the ones who got popped. It certainly adds another level of let down when it is someone you know. But in answer to the question. Yes, I would pay more to be tested and know we are on a level playing field. Double failed test, LIFETIME BAN!!!! The beauty of videos like this, they are offering solutions, not just pointing out the problems. For those of us Masters doing things the right way, keep on grinding!!!!
Love the re-entry fee idea. Doesn’t signing up for the Open require submission to CF’s random drug screen policy? Problem, as I see it, is cost to HQ to test athletes.
I find that the Certified Clean Athlete is a great idea!! Financial penalties and 4yr bans have not been successful in deterring PEDs. As you said, there are athletes who have been tested positive on more than one occassion. When someone makes the decision to use PEDs, with the knowledge that they're cheating and robbing someone of a chance to even compete, someone who has done all the work.......the penalty should beba lifetime ban in my opinion. Knowing that you'll never be able to compete in this sport again would be a formidable deterrent.
I’ve never used PEDs then but not against them (and TRT) I am against an uneven playing field. So, if the organization bans them, the consequences should be hard. Even making the offender pay for the cost of the test. Except for banning an athlete for a proving accidental use. I would still strip the athlete from his position/prize, but not ban from competing. It’s absurd in a sport that does not pay enough for an athlete to pre test LEGAL supplements.
Not sure what you're saying... should someone be banned? How often is it accidental in reality? You're saying crossfit should pay for athletes to pre-test supplements? Is that a thing?
@ No. What I meant about pre resting is that with the current penalties, athletes would pay for it to be sure not to take anything tainted. Im aware that those are not the majority. Especially in the masters category.
It’s a huge compliment to be accused of peds and be clean. Sigh. Ive never been accused. However, its amazing how many times in a metcon im tempted to stop just one rep short (but count the rep). Why is that so tempting? Im not a CF athlete…Just a guy keeping his A1C down. If someone lies about the little things in life, then can they be trusted in the bigger things? Working on your form as a human being is just as important or more so than your form in a lift. You cant correct poor character with added fees. Tha only makes sense to someone who assumes the best and has character. If cheating at the masters level you likely have been practicing poor form in life for far too long. Hard to teach an old dog new tricks. Use peds, ban for life.
I say a up front deposit that is returned upon a clean test. Maybe 7500k deposit that is returned if clean. If not it is disbursed through the age group you competed in. This would be a deternt but also a way to provide reimbursements for those that dont cheat.
Jason , you’ve talked before about that company you sponsor where you send your blood work. And doesn’t that company do TRT? The reason why people take TRT and other stuff is because it gives exponential returns in comparison to all the supplements that you take and sponsor. Just say that you’ve never had the temptation seems difficult to believe, considering how you know that there are many others that are using. You even said in a prior video that you had your tea levels tested, and that they were low. It is impossible to think you haven’t speculated about how much you could level the playing field or improve your performance and recovery by a modest TRT dose. Particularly in light of the massive amount of volume and the benefits that TRT would have on recovering and leaving you in a better place to hit the gym hard the following day. At the end of the day, I feel like you’re a professional athlete and that’s just part of the game so I don’t hold it against you that you may be taking TRT but what I do hold against you is coming out and looking people straight in the eyes and denying it if that’s not true Because that’s just totally setting up people trusting enough to follow you for complete failure. If you are truly natural and have never done anything in your life, then you should just take people doubting you as a compliment and testament to your hard work.
Yes... Blokes, a former sponsor, does TRT and a bunch of other stuff. But when I worked with them, I was flagged - at my request - as a CrossFit Games athlete. Therefore even my multivitamins (the only thing i received) only included normal multi-vitamin ingredients. Even if they didn't have me in their system as a CrossFit Games Athlete - it si MY responsibility to check anything I receive from anyone. Yes... my test is low in the normal range. Yes, I would love for it to be higher. So I do everything naturally to try to promote that. I would likely have higher T if I didn't train as much as I do. But that's the cost of being this level of athlete. I was never tempted to try to bump my testosterone with TRT or any other PED, because that's just not an option. Period. When (if I ever) retire from this sport and stop competing, maybe I'll consider it. But, ideally, that's 20+ years down the road from now.
I think a lot of it is complete ignorance (and jealousy) from the general CrossFit population. I still believe it's a combination of genetics, hard work, and recovery. I think Masters (and elite) athletes have made recovery a priority to be able to train the way you need to make the Games. I've been asked (not accused) if I was taking anything early on in my CF journey and I laughed. I was flattered but thought it was funny. I don't get asked anymore. lol A lot of CF athletes make big gains early on then taper off. I've made it to the AGOQ a couple times so I have a good feeling what it takes to make that next step to the Games and it's A LOT of work. It's literally a full-time job and I don't think people understand that and think everyone has to "cheat" to get to the top and it's insulting to those that do it the "right" way.
Thanks Jason! It was awesome meeting and competing along side you out at Beach Brawl last year . Hope to see you around again sometime. I feel this. I know this video is more about PEDs I feel like a fine simply to comeback doesn’t undo the damage already done I feel. Being that people pay into this sport quite a bit well before semifinals, I would rather the fine be part of the consequence of testing positive. Them cheating takes away from the sport in a huge way. “Defaming” if you will. Gives “CrossFit” a bad name. I think that should be taken into account when deciding how much one should be fined. The ban should always always always be a minimum of 4 years or even longer! I’m sorry. I cannot stand cheaters. Even at local comps, it’s frustrating when you put in the time effort and hard work just to be cheated out. We pay into competitions. Money we will never get back. I’m with you! More than happy to pay a larger fee for mandatory random drug testing. I’ve been in the military for 23+ years. It’s not hard to just NOT do PEDs. It’s a choice. In the military positive drug testing is “Zero tolerance” policy. You get kicked out. Period.
Drag those frauds, Jason! 👏🏼👏🏼 The Sport has no room for athletes who cheat. Shawn was given special treatment one too many times over the years - way more than is likely publicly known - it’s time for him to go away for good. Same for Jonathon Edel who didn’t even try to fight the allegations when he was popped! That is the ultimate disrespect to the Sport: not even having the testicular fortitude to TRY to clear your name of allegations of PED usage all just goes to show how little respect he has for the competitive integrity of the Sport and the field of athletes. What a piece of garbage. Get these bozos out of the Sport. Fine them, bully them, make their cheating names known. I would really like to see the PFAA step in here to help as well. Although not a Masters athlete, I’m sure Pat would have several things or ideas to contribute considering the events of 2017…
Not wrong. My denominator included the number of athletes that qualified for the both the semifinals and games since 2018, minus 2020. From each semifinal and sectional for that year. I then took all the positive drug tests for each year - and did an estimate where they tested 5 from each semifinal and games, and same with 10. Giving us a low - high estimate of 4-8% that have popped. Anything else is just speculation, do I think it’s higher, yes. But there’s no proof of that.
Nice. I was thinking after I put that comment in and listening further that you’d accounted for that. Agree on Teams. They seem to pop way more than Indy Elites. 😊
Yes. They need to not put any time - money - or promotion into the masters divisions = since there is such rampant cheating - and a lack of oversite with testing. It’s just a joke, and makes everything in these categories seem questionable. It’s a shame, but if CF won’t treat it like a governed sport - it’s not really a legit title, competition or sport. That’s really unfortunate.
Jason. What are your thoughts on this? I see you’re still pushing the lmnt product and saying no sugar… In the past month or so it has revealed that LMNT contains upwards of 550 milligrams of maltodextrin. According to a statement by LMNT, there is between 250mg to 550mg in the flavored drink mix. The problem is that until recently it was believed that there was only 4mg of maltodextrin in the powdery packets.
Honestly, I’m not worried about it. I’ll let the company sort out all that. I don’t care about 5g of carbs if that’s the case. I know what it’s done for me subjectively. And I still love the product and the benefits.
@@JasonGrubb thanks for the response. I wasn’t referring to the quantity of sugar. More about the “integrity “ of the company… It’s “just 5g of carbs”. compare that to “it’s just 1 cycle of PEDs/TRT “. To me it’s not about the quantity, but the fact that they lied and knew it and make millions while lying. Like a cheating athlete, no integrity.
Thanks for your leadership and ideas!
My results aren't making anyone wonder if im on ped's but id still pay for the certified clean tests to do my small part to amplify it
Absolutely!
Man, really appreciate you bringing in hard data into this conversation. Even as someone who's in the CF space and loves to watch competitions, it's hard to know what's real and what's fake and who to trust. Thanks for shining some light on this topic, because I think ignoring it only makes it worse (and more uncomfortable for outsiders)
You’re welcome!!!
Great conversation. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great stuff man. All of these are great. I love the certified clean idea. Yes, would pay more. Also, I think 0 exceptions for TRT. Take it if you need but not allowed as a competitor.
Agree!
Thank you Jason, you are an amazing ambassador for the sport in general and especially Masters.
Thank you!
Thanks Jason, Bergers and Mike. I would gladly pay more to have ALL Games athletes tested.
If we charge an extra $10 for QF athletes (1500 x $10= $15,000) and $50 for SF (200 x $50 = $10,000) this would total $25,000 PER gender and age group. Is $25,000 enough to test ALL Games athletes?
I love the fine idea.
Maybe we could affiliate with a drug testing company for self verification?
I'd support all of these ideas.
Agree. Just need that company to exist!
Love this idea. I’m all in on this as well.
Everyone just needs to take 200mg of hard work!
There we go!
💯agree! So sad so many are finding excuses to shortcut the process. Much respect for doing it the right way!
I'm still not sure how many are shortcutting... there just isn't any data on it, but even 4% of those tested is worth being upset.
Really like the certified clean idea. I think in addition to a fine for anyone returning to the sport after a ban there should be a probationary period where they are extensively randomly tested.
Love that addition of the probationary period.
Great video - fully aligned. Assuming 4% popped means assuming 8-15% use is like assuming taking all speeding tickets and multiplying by 2 to 4 = the number of times people drive too fast 😉 meta-studies including anonymous surveys etc. indicate the real number is probably higher.
Regarding your suggestions: agreed.
- no access to prize purses without certification
- re-entry requires $5k or more (link it to the cost of e.g. 10 annual drug testing/certification "packages")
- Assign eg 5% of ticket sales to drug testing for any CrossFit licensed event; for others it should become the norm to publish how many and what kinds of tests were run
- use latest tech to broaden what is tested for (eg LC-MS/MS)
- work with anti-fraud experts to profile Open results and published PRs and PR trends etc to drive sampling
- maybe we also need test-free comps for the community that only cares about performance- like some Strongman comps
Love this. Maybe AI could look for anomalies in open/QF/SF performance too!
The anomaly was exactly how i figured out the two Spaniards were using fake plates.
I look forward to competing with you at Hyrox Dallas this weekend!
Let's go!
Cool video, I was competing on a Team in Alabama and was also able to cheer on a friend who was competing individually, and he is unfortunately one of the ones who got popped. It certainly adds another level of let down when it is someone you know. But in answer to the question. Yes, I would pay more to be tested and know we are on a level playing field. Double failed test, LIFETIME BAN!!!! The beauty of videos like this, they are offering solutions, not just pointing out the problems. For those of us Masters doing things the right way, keep on grinding!!!!
Lifetime ban sounds good to me!
Love the re-entry fee idea. Doesn’t signing up for the Open require submission to CF’s random drug screen policy? Problem, as I see it, is cost to HQ to test athletes.
Not sure.
I find that the Certified Clean Athlete is a great idea!!
Financial penalties and 4yr bans have not been successful in deterring PEDs. As you said, there are athletes who have been tested positive on more than one occassion. When someone makes the decision to use PEDs, with the knowledge that they're cheating and robbing someone of a chance to even compete, someone who has done all the work.......the penalty should beba lifetime ban in my opinion. Knowing that you'll never be able to compete in this sport again would be a formidable deterrent.
Lifetime ban is totally fine with me.
Love “Certified Clean,” I would sign up, submit the random tests & pay to have that by my name. Great ideas Jason!
Gotta figure out how to do it.
@ 💯
Plus one for the cert program!
Let’s go!
I’ve never used PEDs then but not against them (and TRT) I am against an uneven playing field. So, if the organization bans them, the consequences should be hard. Even making the offender pay for the cost of the test. Except for banning an athlete for a proving accidental use. I would still strip the athlete from his position/prize, but not ban from competing. It’s absurd in a sport that does not pay enough for an athlete to pre test LEGAL supplements.
Not sure what you're saying... should someone be banned? How often is it accidental in reality? You're saying crossfit should pay for athletes to pre-test supplements? Is that a thing?
@ No. What I meant about pre resting is that with the current penalties, athletes would pay for it to be sure not to take anything tainted. Im aware that those are not the majority. Especially in the masters category.
It’s a huge compliment to be accused of peds and be clean. Sigh. Ive never been accused. However, its amazing how many times in a metcon im tempted to stop just one rep short (but count the rep). Why is that so tempting? Im not a CF athlete…Just a guy keeping his A1C down. If someone lies about the little things in life, then can they be trusted in the bigger things? Working on your form as a human being is just as important or more so than your form in a lift. You cant correct poor character with added fees. Tha only makes sense to someone who assumes the best and has character. If cheating at the masters level you likely have been practicing poor form in life for far too long. Hard to teach an old dog new tricks. Use peds, ban for life.
Agree!
Good video Jason
Thanks brothrr
I say a up front deposit that is returned upon a clean test. Maybe 7500k deposit that is returned if clean. If not it is disbursed through the age group you competed in.
This would be a deternt but also a way to provide reimbursements for those that dont cheat.
Oh... that is very fun!!!
Your a legend Jason great stuff
Cheats should just go do Grid
ha ha!!
Jason , you’ve talked before about that company you sponsor where you send your blood work. And doesn’t that company do TRT?
The reason why people take TRT and other stuff is because it gives exponential returns in comparison to all the supplements that you take and sponsor.
Just say that you’ve never had the temptation seems difficult to believe, considering how you know that there are many others that are using. You even said in a prior video that you had your tea levels tested, and that they were low. It is impossible to think you haven’t speculated about how much you could level the playing field or improve your performance and recovery by a modest TRT dose. Particularly in light of the massive amount of volume and the benefits that TRT would have on recovering and leaving you in a better place to hit the gym hard the following day.
At the end of the day, I feel like you’re a professional athlete and that’s just part of the game so I don’t hold it against you that you may be taking TRT but what I do hold against you is coming out and looking people straight in the eyes and denying it if that’s not true Because that’s just totally setting up people trusting enough to follow you for complete failure.
If you are truly natural and have never done anything in your life, then you should just take people doubting you as a compliment and testament to your hard work.
Yes... Blokes, a former sponsor, does TRT and a bunch of other stuff. But when I worked with them, I was flagged - at my request - as a CrossFit Games athlete. Therefore even my multivitamins (the only thing i received) only included normal multi-vitamin ingredients. Even if they didn't have me in their system as a CrossFit Games Athlete - it si MY responsibility to check anything I receive from anyone.
Yes... my test is low in the normal range. Yes, I would love for it to be higher. So I do everything naturally to try to promote that. I would likely have higher T if I didn't train as much as I do. But that's the cost of being this level of athlete.
I was never tempted to try to bump my testosterone with TRT or any other PED, because that's just not an option. Period.
When (if I ever) retire from this sport and stop competing, maybe I'll consider it. But, ideally, that's 20+ years down the road from now.
I think a lot of it is complete ignorance (and jealousy) from the general CrossFit population. I still believe it's a combination of genetics, hard work, and recovery. I think Masters (and elite) athletes have made recovery a priority to be able to train the way you need to make the Games. I've been asked (not accused) if I was taking anything early on in my CF journey and I laughed. I was flattered but thought it was funny. I don't get asked anymore. lol A lot of CF athletes make big gains early on then taper off. I've made it to the AGOQ a couple times so I have a good feeling what it takes to make that next step to the Games and it's A LOT of work. It's literally a full-time job and I don't think people understand that and think everyone has to "cheat" to get to the top and it's insulting to those that do it the "right" way.
Completely agree. It’s hard work. Period.
Thanks Jason! It was awesome meeting and competing along side you out at Beach Brawl last year . Hope to see you around again sometime.
I feel this. I know this video is more about PEDs I feel like a fine simply to comeback doesn’t undo the damage already done I feel. Being that people pay into this sport quite a bit well before semifinals, I would rather the fine be part of the consequence of testing positive. Them cheating takes away from the sport in a huge way. “Defaming” if you will. Gives “CrossFit” a bad name. I think that should be taken into account when deciding how much one should be fined. The ban should always always always be a minimum of 4 years or even longer! I’m sorry. I cannot stand cheaters. Even at local comps, it’s frustrating when you put in the time effort and hard work just to be cheated out. We pay into competitions. Money we will never get back.
I’m with you! More than happy to pay a larger fee for mandatory random drug testing. I’ve been in the military for 23+ years. It’s not hard to just NOT do PEDs. It’s a choice.
In the military positive drug testing is “Zero tolerance” policy. You get kicked out. Period.
I think most of us would absolutely pay after semifinals if you are top 40 to ensure a fair games. 100%
Completely agree brother!!!
Why does your voice sound different?
had a little mic issue on this video. Frustrating!
Not even TRT?
Not even TRT. It’s banned.
@@JasonGrubb it’s banned, but they don’t test for it
What about TRT, not judging, just genuinely curious
TRY is banned in this sport. Period.
Happy to answer any more on this.
@JasonGrubb respect 🤜
Drag those frauds, Jason! 👏🏼👏🏼 The Sport has no room for athletes who cheat.
Shawn was given special treatment one too many times over the years - way more than is likely publicly known - it’s time for him to go away for good.
Same for Jonathon Edel who didn’t even try to fight the allegations when he was popped! That is the ultimate disrespect to the Sport: not even having the testicular fortitude to TRY to clear your name of allegations of PED usage all just goes to show how little respect he has for the competitive integrity of the Sport and the field of athletes. What a piece of garbage.
Get these bozos out of the Sport. Fine them, bully them, make their cheating names known.
I would really like to see the PFAA step in here to help as well. Although not a Masters athlete, I’m sure Pat would have several things or ideas to contribute considering the events of 2017…
Agree on all accounts.
Def higher. Not every Games qualifier gets tested. Only the podium, or top 5/10. So your denominator is wrong.
Not wrong. My denominator included the number of athletes that qualified for the both the semifinals and games since 2018, minus 2020. From each semifinal and sectional for that year.
I then took all the positive drug tests for each year - and did an estimate where they tested 5 from each semifinal and games, and same with 10. Giving us a low - high estimate of 4-8% that have popped. Anything else is just speculation, do I think it’s higher, yes. But there’s no proof of that.
Also - does not include Team athletes - which would significantly increase the % of users. They pop way more
Nice. I was thinking after I put that comment in and listening further that you’d accounted for that. Agree on Teams. They seem to pop way more than Indy Elites. 😊
Good convo here guys.
Yes.
They need to not put any time - money - or promotion into the masters divisions = since there is such rampant cheating - and a lack of oversite with testing.
It’s just a joke, and makes everything in these categories seem questionable. It’s a shame, but if CF won’t treat it like a governed sport - it’s not really a legit title, competition or sport. That’s really unfortunate.
Rampant? Please verify this with data and proof. Whatever data you have that proves rampant cheating would be very helpful.
Jason. What are your thoughts on this? I see you’re still pushing the lmnt product and saying no sugar…
In the past month or so it has revealed that LMNT contains upwards of 550 milligrams of maltodextrin. According to a statement by LMNT, there is between 250mg to 550mg in the flavored drink mix.
The problem is that until recently it was believed that there was only 4mg of maltodextrin in the powdery packets.
Honestly, I’m not worried about it. I’ll let the company sort out all that. I don’t care about 5g of carbs if that’s the case. I know what it’s done for me subjectively. And I still love the product and the benefits.
@@JasonGrubb thanks for the response. I wasn’t referring to the quantity of sugar. More about the “integrity “ of the company… It’s “just 5g of carbs”. compare that to “it’s just 1 cycle of PEDs/TRT “. To me it’s not about the quantity, but the fact that they lied and knew it and make millions while lying. Like a cheating athlete, no integrity.
❤
Thanks
Tbh crossfits testing Regime is a joke 😂
How can it be improved? What do other sports like ours do?