I like how you highlight that the SS in the first video was trying to take advantage of "a cheap double play", but not in the 2nd video... as if it isn't the exact same scenario regarding intent and advantage. Legal or not... both are chicken shit, one is just legal. Great video, by the way!
The two scenarios are not the same thing. The White Sox shortstop touched the ball; in the second case play the ball dropped to the ground untouched. Absolutely nothing unsportsmanlike allowing a batted ball to fall to the ground untouched.
Good video with good examples. I haven’t seen these plays yet in my games. Normally when this happens like a easy fly ball, the fielder catches the ball and the batter is out since normally the runner will not run in a fly ball. I have seen a fielder being wise enough to let the ball drop, without touching it to get that double play.
There was an example of an intentionally uncaught popped up bunt in last night's Orioles-Cardinals game which led to a 1-5-4 double play. Apparently legal, but seems to violate the spirit of the rule.
excellent point. in NFHS (high school baseball), they made a point-of-emphasis two years ago that the "neighborhood" play was specifically NOT to be called an out. i think it was a fantastic idea. just like high school first basemen who LOVE to do the major league foot-pull. amateur players will very likely copy what they see the big leaguers do on tv. it doesn't take any more effort to keep your foot on the base during and through the play; it just takes a conscious choice, one that should be properly coached. i don't know what the official policy is at other levels of baseball, but the NFHS policy sure makes sense to me.
What if the outside of the glove is used. 1 out. Runner on first. Let’s say a line drive to the first baseman. He closes his mitt uses the outside of the glove to stop the ball while “attempting” to control the ball with his throwing hand. UNSUCCESSFUL, now he has an opportunity to make a double play. Intentionally dropped, intentionally uncaught. Or showboating gone wrong
New subscriber - big fan. I enjoy what you're sharing. I'm returning to umpiring after a several-year hiatus and your videos are helping to give me a 'bump' back into game mindset. Thank you. Could you clarify one thing on this video? Why, on the uncaught ball play where the first baseman lets the ball drop right in front him, wasn't infield fly called? There were less than two outs, there were runners on first and second, and the ball was able to be caught in the infield by a player with routine effort. What I am I missing? Please comment.
Because of the intent to be deceptive in the first instance both Runners should have been safe. That would stop people from pulling that crap. And intentionally not catching a ball, I would have called the batter out and everybody else goes back to their base. That will stop those Shenanigans as well. If you're going to call the second one as being allowable. They need to tighten up on the infield fly rule. And that rule should actually apply any time there's anybody on base. Not just second and third. Doesn't actually make any sense the way it is applied. The other one that's irritating as hell is when they call the infield fly rule when one of the infielders has to run his ass off to even get to the ball to catch it. I've actually had people try and claim that that's ordinary effort for a major league baseball player. Oh, but it's not an ordinary effort. He has to run his ass off to get to the ball to even be able to catch it. That means it was extraordinary effort that had to be used to catch the ball.
It's fine if you want to disagree with the rule book, but if you call base on how you think the rules of baseball should be written vs how they are actually written, your officiating career will be a short one.
You forgot the infield fly rule.
Perfectly explained
Thank you! That was very articulate and really cleared things up for me!
I like how you highlight that the SS in the first video was trying to take advantage of "a cheap double play", but not in the 2nd video... as if it isn't the exact same scenario regarding intent and advantage. Legal or not... both are chicken shit, one is just legal. Great video, by the way!
The two scenarios are not the same thing. The White Sox shortstop touched the ball; in the second case play the ball dropped to the ground untouched. Absolutely nothing unsportsmanlike allowing a batted ball to fall to the ground untouched.
Good video with good examples. I haven’t seen these plays yet in my games. Normally when this happens like a easy fly ball, the fielder catches the ball and the batter is out since normally the runner will not run in a fly ball. I have seen a fielder being wise enough to let the ball drop, without touching it to get that double play.
How is the second play not an infield fly rule??
A Bing can not be an infield fly. A bunt is ineligible to ever be an infield fly.
A bunt can not be an infield fly.
You should do how to call a ball vs strike, dos and donts for third strikes, definition of strike zone, etc. Great videos
Good job, the newumpire will learn something
There was an example of an intentionally uncaught popped up bunt in last night's Orioles-Cardinals game which led to a 1-5-4 double play. Apparently legal, but seems to violate the spirit of the rule.
What are your thoughts on the second baseman off of the bag on the out at second in the intentional uncaught video?
excellent point. in NFHS (high school baseball), they made a point-of-emphasis two years ago that the "neighborhood" play was specifically NOT to be called an out. i think it was a fantastic idea. just like high school first basemen who LOVE to do the major league foot-pull. amateur players will very likely copy what they see the big leaguers do on tv. it doesn't take any more effort to keep your foot on the base during and through the play; it just takes a conscious choice, one that should be properly coached. i don't know what the official policy is at other levels of baseball, but the NFHS policy sure makes sense to me.
What if the outside of the glove is used.
1 out. Runner on first. Let’s say a line drive to the first baseman. He closes his mitt uses the outside of the glove to stop the ball while “attempting” to control the ball with his throwing hand. UNSUCCESSFUL, now he has an opportunity to make a double play.
Intentionally dropped, intentionally uncaught. Or showboating gone wrong
If he's doing that to maintain control... intentionally dropped.
New subscriber - big fan. I enjoy what you're sharing. I'm returning to umpiring after a several-year hiatus and your videos are helping to give me a 'bump' back into game mindset. Thank you.
Could you clarify one thing on this video? Why, on the uncaught ball play where the first baseman lets the ball drop right in front him, wasn't infield fly called? There were less than two outs, there were runners on first and second, and the ball was able to be caught in the infield by a player with routine effort. What I am I missing? Please comment.
I had the same exact question. Does infield fly apply to attempted bunts?
Michael Gleason By rule a bunt is not an infield fly.
It doesn't matter, I don't think, how it is hit. An infield pop fly is an infield pop fly, right?
A Bunt or a line drive is never an infield fly.
Because of the intent to be deceptive in the first instance both Runners should have been safe. That would stop people from pulling that crap. And intentionally not catching a ball, I would have called the batter out and everybody else goes back to their base. That will stop those Shenanigans as well.
If you're going to call the second one as being allowable. They need to tighten up on the infield fly rule. And that rule should actually apply any time there's anybody on base. Not just second and third. Doesn't actually make any sense the way it is applied. The other one that's irritating as hell is when they call the infield fly rule when one of the infielders has to run his ass off to even get to the ball to catch it.
I've actually had people try and claim that that's ordinary effort for a major league baseball player. Oh, but it's not an ordinary effort. He has to run his ass off to get to the ball to even be able to catch it. That means it was extraordinary effort that had to be used to catch the ball.
Second one isn’t an infield fly because it’s a bunt.
sounds like you're umpiring with your emotions and not the rule book.
It's fine if you want to disagree with the rule book, but if you call base on how you think the rules of baseball should be written vs how they are actually written, your officiating career will be a short one.