What always annoyed me growing up was when youth leaders and teachers told us girls to dress appropriately so as not to “stumble our brothers in Christ.” But then never tell the guys how to dress appropriately around the girls (once a classmate pulled his shirt off in front of everyone because it was on backwards while standing in line, and no one said anything). It just always felt unbalanced and unfair that the girls were made responsible for the guys spiritual well-being because the guys were expected to not have self control. It hurt my perception of guys in my Christian school for a while. Nowadays as a young adult, I have more sympathy toward men and their sexual struggles. It’s not the same struggle for women, and unfortunately most of us put men down for having those struggles, or push them further into them. I feel like if more Christians were open with pubescents about sex and about why there are so many parameters around it instead of treating it like it’s a taboo or dirty subject, we would see less adult Christians confused and unsatisfied in their marriages, and more of them willing to seek help.
The worst advice I've heard is to not grow together spiritually while dating. This is horrible because why should a Christian marry someone without knowing how they pray, worship, and spend their time with Jesus. I get that the intent is to avoid having the same level of spiritual intimacy as a married couple. However, it is unrealistic to expect two believers not to engage in Godly relational foundations.
Inviting each other to our spiritual life is definitely important especially given that such spiritual life is constantly evolving. And given that we constantly evolve we have to give each other space to do so and accompany each other on that bumpy journey. Peace to you
Let's be clear, you will have times in your marriage where you will have to sacrifice your happiness for at least a while. You must remain loyal even if things aren't going well. Adultery, abuse, spousal abandonment are legitimate reasons to seek divorce and even remarry. There's not really any others.
Hey, Octavio. I just stumbled on your channel and I'm very grateful to God that I did. I learned some things from your video and I agree with a whole lot of what you said. However, I kinda disagree with your stance on the issue of divorce. I'm not married myself, so I don't know EXACTLY how marriages are, but I do have an idea of how they SHOULD be. My Advice to Anyone who wants to read: Basically, marriage is a oneness before God and the only thing that can separate that bond is infidelity (cheating). Even in the case of abuse, married people aren't supposed to divorce because they are still "one flesh" in God's eyes. Even if they get a divorce, they are still married; a divorce on paper is not necessarily a divorce to God. I am not saying it's okay to bear abuse in a marriage, but rather, to be aware and active so that you can prevent and deal with any form of abuse as early as possible. People don't change very quickly; the human body is generally resistant to change, so I believe that most abusive marriages must have had signs of abuse in the early stages of courtship (dating) or friendship. If your friend has a habit that you cannot tolerate, don't make them your boyfriend or girlfriend, and if your boyfriend raises his hand to you or your girlfriend often manipulates you to get what she wants, don't make them your spouse. You CANNOT change anyone, and if they won't fix themselves now, they won't do it when you're married... little signs that we all need to be aware of as early as possible. So what of the case when a person does change when they get into the marriage? Certain things like stress can cause people to become abusive in a relationship. This is by no means acceptable, but if it happens even once, call it out and deal with it (again, as early as possible). Stand up for yourself when you have the authority and opportunity to do so and seek immediate assistance when you don't. And if you love them (which you most likely do, cos y'all are married) you should do your best to guide them back to a better place and if they still refuse to change, you may separate. Marriage is supposed to be forever and it's supposed to be beautiful and full of love (not a burden or some heavy cross to carry). Do your best to pick the right person and be aware of the tiniest of red flags. Keep your marriage to the best of your physical, emotional and mental health and make sure that all decisions come from a place of love for yourself and your spouse.
With respect, not only do you not know EXACTLY how marriages are, but you have NO IDEA how marriages are. I have been married, and I know that with that experience, I too have NO IDEA what it's like "inside" the marriages of my friends, never mind laying down exact rules as you do. Your first point, I'll ignore completely. As a non-believer (which God, by the way? The Southern Baptist God? The Mormon God? The Roman Catholic God? Or something else, like Allah, or Ganesh, or Odin?) As a non believer, I say, I see no convincing evidence that a God exists, much less should be allowed to have a say in anyone's marriage, considering all the pointless suffering His imaginary interference can lead to. Your second two points fail because people are in fact quite capable of concealing their real character before marriage. Even if they are acting with honesty and integrity, the huge change in life circumstances that marriage brings can cause correspondingly huge, and relatively rapid, changes in character and temper. Lastly, "supposed" by whom? And what if the suppositions are mistaken? Each couple needs to find their own way. Picking the right person, early or late in life, is not obvious and not straightforward: it is very easy to make an awful mistake, and it should be reasonably possible to rectify that without opprobrium from society. You admit that you don't know what you're talking about, so you should avoid giving advice and passing judgements which may be demeaning, insulting, painful and dangerous to people you don't know. Not everyone lives in your village; not everyone shops at your mall.
@philipwagner9169 Hey, Philip. Thanks for the "wake-up call," but when I gave that piece of advice, my main target was believers. Just to be clear, if you're not a believer, it doesn't really apply to you. Plus, like all pieces of advice (whether useful or not), it's still the decision of intelligent people to choose to take or discard it. I'm not here giving my own rules about how marriages should be. I'm telling my fellow believers how God intended marriage, and IF you're following God (big on the if), you must understand that He knows what's best, and He really loves you. All in all, God created marriage (whether you believe in Him or not), so He gets to make the rules about it. Everyone has the choice to abide by those rules or not, but consequences follow when you don't. It's kinda like societal rules; everyone has the right to work for their money or steal it, but you must understand the risks that follow each decision. Working means putting a lot of effort, but it will be very rewarding if you do it right. Stealing may appear to be rewarding, but there is always the possibility of getting arrested. I hope this helps 😉
I used to think like you, but now I believe abusiveness is a good reason to leave a marriage. Honestly it is just common sense, if you or the kids are in danger from your partner. Ask people who have left abusive partners. They can change quickly, based on what I heard. And even if that’s not the case, what’s the solution? “You were dumb for marrying this person in the first place so now you have to deal with it by putting your life, health, and kids at risk? You seem to view the world with rose colored glasses. I can be like that too. But you have to understand there are trashy people out there, who don’t show how bad they are until they are secure enough in the relationship. There is no appeasing people like this. I’m concerned with the idea that the abused spouse just isn’t putting in enough work to make their partner happy. I recommend watching Mike Winger’s video on divorce where he does into great detail about biblical teachings on divorce. It’s not as simple as you say and someone can leave an abusive marriage and still be biblical.
@@roboezire Thank you for your measured and moderate reply. I'm not going to engage you in a theological debate here, but of course, I disagree. I will only take issue with one thing: You're telling your fellow believers, not how God intended marriage, but how Paul claimed God intended marriage. One of my favourite Bible passages is Paul's first letter to the Corinthians, Chapter 13, where he speaks about charity (in the old sense of generosity of spirit), but being right in one thing doesn't stop him being him spectacularly wrong in others! Peace, and enjoy the rest of your day.
With sex, Paul is saying either feast or fast; but a starvation diet is asking for trouble. I know there are reasons a woman can't spare the time it takes to watch this video to show her husband value and acceptance, and treat him like a man instead of a workhorse. Until a woman can treat her man like she loves him, the 72-hour-rule might at least buy time by limiting the rejection. For heavens sake, let her initiate a little regularly and see if that level of love, aceptance, value and fulfillment doesn't turn him into both a more loving/attentive and masculine husband. So many women keep a skeletal starvling dog of a partner.
There are some seriously unhealthy attitudes from both Christian men and women when it comes to sex. Men are taught they can’t control themselves, women are taught that they won’t like sex. Men are taught that they don’t have to please their partner in bed, only themselves. Women are taught that they have to force themselves to have sex against their feelings (which is physically damaging). These attitudes have shown to destroy the libido of women and cause sexual issues well into marriage. Men think it’s just women being frigid or uncaring, but if a woman feels loved and cared for in bed she will likely want more (unless there’s hormonal issues at play). If she feels like a hole for a man to relieve himself in, she won’t want it.
Do you really think obligation sex is the solution? Making sexual intimacy a CHORE? I don’t know if you are married or not, but NO ONE wants chore-sex. I know I most definitely don’t.
@@OctavioMoss Of course, working through the issues behind depravation is the actual solution. In the meantime, and maybe as a start, making love as an act-of-love might be a worthy shift of perspective. The relative difficulty of feeling that way about it and why might be enlightening as to where to start. That internal calendar of "how long can I get away with not being intimate" is no bueno for oneself or one's spouse. I can see how the 72-hour thing would tempt someone to that attitude; but the roots are often something else. The lore is that physical intimacy unlocks men's ability to be tender and intimate, and that that, in turn, is often what unlocks a woman's desire. Getting that virtuous feedback loop going again helps some people. Other times it's the depriver who turned that switch off and is the only one who can work through some stuff and reawaken that part of themselves. Karyn Sietz ( @thehappywifeschool ) has a lot about how to work through that. The benefits certainly go beyond less strife and fristration over the issue. There was a woman who, as an experiment, initiated every day for a week or two. It wasn't always about him. One day she asked for something that was just for her; but in that sexual realm. She talked about the visible change in her husband, as a husband with her and a father with their her kids and in general. He was both kinder and more masculine, and something she described as "full". How many marriages are like a garden with tired dirt or a chronically underfed dog. It's still alive like it's always been; and through lack of context people have no idea of how it would look fully healthy.
What always annoyed me growing up was when youth leaders and teachers told us girls to dress appropriately so as not to “stumble our brothers in Christ.” But then never tell the guys how to dress appropriately around the girls (once a classmate pulled his shirt off in front of everyone because it was on backwards while standing in line, and no one said anything). It just always felt unbalanced and unfair that the girls were made responsible for the guys spiritual well-being because the guys were expected to not have self control. It hurt my perception of guys in my Christian school for a while.
Nowadays as a young adult, I have more sympathy toward men and their sexual struggles. It’s not the same struggle for women, and unfortunately most of us put men down for having those struggles, or push them further into them. I feel like if more Christians were open with pubescents about sex and about why there are so many parameters around it instead of treating it like it’s a taboo or dirty subject, we would see less adult Christians confused and unsatisfied in their marriages, and more of them willing to seek help.
The worst advice I've heard is to not grow together spiritually while dating. This is horrible because why should a Christian marry someone without knowing how they pray, worship, and spend their time with Jesus. I get that the intent is to avoid having the same level of spiritual intimacy as a married couple. However, it is unrealistic to expect two believers not to engage in Godly relational foundations.
Inviting each other to our spiritual life is definitely important especially given that such spiritual life is constantly evolving. And given that we constantly evolve we have to give each other space to do so and accompany each other on that bumpy journey.
Peace to you
Let's be clear, you will have times in your marriage where you will have to sacrifice your happiness for at least a while. You must remain loyal even if things aren't going well.
Adultery, abuse, spousal abandonment are legitimate reasons to seek divorce and even remarry. There's not really any others.
I like you…
Hey, Octavio. I just stumbled on your channel and I'm very grateful to God that I did. I learned some things from your video and I agree with a whole lot of what you said. However, I kinda disagree with your stance on the issue of divorce. I'm not married myself, so I don't know EXACTLY how marriages are, but I do have an idea of how they SHOULD be.
My Advice to Anyone who wants to read:
Basically, marriage is a oneness before God and the only thing that can separate that bond is infidelity (cheating). Even in the case of abuse, married people aren't supposed to divorce because they are still "one flesh" in God's eyes. Even if they get a divorce, they are still married; a divorce on paper is not necessarily a divorce to God. I am not saying it's okay to bear abuse in a marriage, but rather, to be aware and active so that you can prevent and deal with any form of abuse as early as possible.
People don't change very quickly; the human body is generally resistant to change, so I believe that most abusive marriages must have had signs of abuse in the early stages of courtship (dating) or friendship. If your friend has a habit that you cannot tolerate, don't make them your boyfriend or girlfriend, and if your boyfriend raises his hand to you or your girlfriend often manipulates you to get what she wants, don't make them your spouse. You CANNOT change anyone, and if they won't fix themselves now, they won't do it when you're married... little signs that we all need to be aware of as early as possible.
So what of the case when a person does change when they get into the marriage? Certain things like stress can cause people to become abusive in a relationship. This is by no means acceptable, but if it happens even once, call it out and deal with it (again, as early as possible). Stand up for yourself when you have the authority and opportunity to do so and seek immediate assistance when you don't. And if you love them (which you most likely do, cos y'all are married) you should do your best to guide them back to a better place and if they still refuse to change, you may separate.
Marriage is supposed to be forever and it's supposed to be beautiful and full of love (not a burden or some heavy cross to carry). Do your best to pick the right person and be aware of the tiniest of red flags. Keep your marriage to the best of your physical, emotional and mental health and make sure that all decisions come from a place of love for yourself and your spouse.
With respect, not only do you not know EXACTLY how marriages are, but you have NO IDEA how marriages are. I have been married, and I know that with that experience, I too have NO IDEA what it's like "inside" the marriages of my friends, never mind laying down exact rules as you do.
Your first point, I'll ignore completely. As a non-believer (which God, by the way? The Southern Baptist God? The Mormon God? The Roman Catholic God? Or something else, like Allah, or Ganesh, or Odin?) As a non believer, I say, I see no convincing evidence that a God exists, much less should be allowed to have a say in anyone's marriage, considering all the pointless suffering His imaginary interference can lead to.
Your second two points fail because people are in fact quite capable of concealing their real character before marriage. Even if they are acting with honesty and integrity, the huge change in life circumstances that marriage brings can cause correspondingly huge, and relatively rapid, changes in character and temper.
Lastly, "supposed" by whom? And what if the suppositions are mistaken? Each couple needs to find their own way. Picking the right person, early or late in life, is not obvious and not straightforward: it is very easy to make an awful mistake, and it should be reasonably possible to rectify that without opprobrium from society.
You admit that you don't know what you're talking about, so you should avoid giving advice and passing judgements which may be demeaning, insulting, painful and dangerous to people you don't know. Not everyone lives in your village; not everyone shops at your mall.
@philipwagner9169 Hey, Philip. Thanks for the "wake-up call," but when I gave that piece of advice, my main target was believers. Just to be clear, if you're not a believer, it doesn't really apply to you. Plus, like all pieces of advice (whether useful or not), it's still the decision of intelligent people to choose to take or discard it.
I'm not here giving my own rules about how marriages should be. I'm telling my fellow believers how God intended marriage, and IF you're following God (big on the if), you must understand that He knows what's best, and He really loves you.
All in all, God created marriage (whether you believe in Him or not), so He gets to make the rules about it. Everyone has the choice to abide by those rules or not, but consequences follow when you don't.
It's kinda like societal rules; everyone has the right to work for their money or steal it, but you must understand the risks that follow each decision. Working means putting a lot of effort, but it will be very rewarding if you do it right. Stealing may appear to be rewarding, but there is always the possibility of getting arrested. I hope this helps 😉
I used to think like you, but now I believe abusiveness is a good reason to leave a marriage. Honestly it is just common sense, if you or the kids are in danger from your partner.
Ask people who have left abusive partners. They can change quickly, based on what I heard. And even if that’s not the case, what’s the solution? “You were dumb for marrying this person in the first place so now you have to deal with it by putting your life, health, and kids at risk?
You seem to view the world with rose colored glasses. I can be like that too. But you have to understand there are trashy people out there, who don’t show how bad they are until they are secure enough in the relationship. There is no appeasing people like this. I’m concerned with the idea that the abused spouse just isn’t putting in enough work to make their partner happy.
I recommend watching Mike Winger’s video on divorce where he does into great detail about biblical teachings on divorce. It’s not as simple as you say and someone can leave an abusive marriage and still be biblical.
@@roboezire Thank you for your measured and moderate reply. I'm not going to engage you in a theological debate here, but of course, I disagree. I will only take issue with one thing: You're telling your fellow believers, not how God intended marriage, but how Paul claimed God intended marriage. One of my favourite Bible passages is Paul's first letter to the Corinthians, Chapter 13, where he speaks about charity (in the old sense of generosity of spirit), but being right in one thing doesn't stop him being him spectacularly wrong in others! Peace, and enjoy the rest of your day.
When you started talking about Christopher Columbus I subbed. Based.
😄… You will have to translate this comment for you millennial friend over here
With sex, Paul is saying either feast or fast; but a starvation diet is asking for trouble.
I know there are reasons a woman can't spare the time it takes to watch this video to show her husband value and acceptance, and treat him like a man instead of a workhorse. Until a woman can treat her man like she loves him, the 72-hour-rule might at least buy time by limiting the rejection. For heavens sake, let her initiate a little regularly and see if that level of love, aceptance, value and fulfillment doesn't turn him into both a more loving/attentive and masculine husband. So many women keep a skeletal starvling dog of a partner.
There are some seriously unhealthy attitudes from both Christian men and women when it comes to sex. Men are taught they can’t control themselves, women are taught that they won’t like sex. Men are taught that they don’t have to please their partner in bed, only themselves. Women are taught that they have to force themselves to have sex against their feelings (which is physically damaging). These attitudes have shown to destroy the libido of women and cause sexual issues well into marriage. Men think it’s just women being frigid or uncaring, but if a woman feels loved and cared for in bed she will likely want more (unless there’s hormonal issues at play). If she feels like a hole for a man to relieve himself in, she won’t want it.
Do you really think obligation sex is the solution? Making sexual intimacy a CHORE? I don’t know if you are married or not, but NO ONE wants chore-sex. I know I most definitely don’t.
@@OctavioMoss Of course, working through the issues behind depravation is the actual solution. In the meantime, and maybe as a start, making love as an act-of-love might be a worthy shift of perspective. The relative difficulty of feeling that way about it and why might be enlightening as to where to start. That internal calendar of "how long can I get away with not being intimate" is no bueno for oneself or one's spouse. I can see how the 72-hour thing would tempt someone to that attitude; but the roots are often something else. The lore is that physical intimacy unlocks men's ability to be tender and intimate, and that that, in turn, is often what unlocks a woman's desire. Getting that virtuous feedback loop going again helps some people. Other times it's the depriver who turned that switch off and is the only one who can work through some stuff and reawaken that part of themselves. Karyn Sietz ( @thehappywifeschool ) has a lot about how to work through that. The benefits certainly go beyond less strife and fristration over the issue. There was a woman who, as an experiment, initiated every day for a week or two. It wasn't always about him. One day she asked for something that was just for her; but in that sexual realm. She talked about the visible change in her husband, as a husband with her and a father with their her kids and in general. He was both kinder and more masculine, and something she described as "full". How many marriages are like a garden with tired dirt or a chronically underfed dog. It's still alive like it's always been; and through lack of context people have no idea of how it would look fully healthy.