I’m a fan of the artistic side of figure skating, but I am completely for using technology to improve judging. It wouldn’t replace the judges, it would replace the technical caller. You don’t even need an AI to tell how underrotated a jump was, yet it takes human eye tens of seconds to tease it apart, and not with good accuracy. Plus, using technology to judge the technique would free up time for the judges to properly evaluate the artistic side, and maybe judges would finally start watching the skaters during the performance instead of their monitors.
Totally agree! Without the "technical caller", the judges can easily watch the skater skate. Maybe there should be judges who actually understand and have knowledge of dance, choreography, music, musicality, etc. These special judges can then give a better assessment of the skater's overall performance and be able to justify themselves.
I have seen Hanyu commenting on his thesis. He is also a science/tech nerd, and always has been interested in science behind figure skating. (One reason he gets on well with Ghislain’s coaching approach apparently.) His music also is edited with nano-second precision to match his movement, which he manages with the help of professional sound mixer. The main reason he wrote that thesis is not to criticise judges but to utilise technology for effective skill improvement. In doing so, he indentified challenges that human eyes pose, one of which happened to be the judging system, and explored possibilities of AI technology in overcoming them.
totally agree. why people always get Hanyu's intention in the wrong way, at least in the way he wasn't intended? he doesn't even wrote the thesis for himself, he wrote it for the future skaters.
@@euniceaudian maybe I'm taking this too literally - you say he wrote it for himself (like a fun project to self publish)? But then someone else said it was to satisfy a degree requirement (writing it for his university)? I didn't even know he was in school so I am just confused by the two different narratives.
@@kristenjunker1632 im not saying he wrote for himself tho. he is writing it for this degree thesis but his intention is to bring the sport to the better and not just for his own advantage
Hanyu's thesis on using AI to assess figure skating technical elements (correct edges on jumps, rotations of jumps and spins, step sequences) sounds a lot better than a bunch of country judges being biased to score their skaters up (and other nation's skaters down). But that's about it. In terms of the human element - the PCS - then that would need to have people judging it. Particularly, those with specialized knowledge of dance, music, choreo, etc. AI would also be good at assessing the numbers of particular judges (bias!), I bet. I hope that Hanyu continues his research to further help the sport of figure skating.
he didn't mention once the AI judging is for the artistic side of skating, so i kinda confused why people still dont get kt why he wrote the thesis. Hanyu even said once that you have to have a good tech ability to be an artistic skater. so what Jonathan said in the video kinda give me "if you're an artistic skater, wrong edges or under rotate your jump it's an okay thing coz you're being artistic" which is totally wrong lol
@@euniceaudian Yes, his research was done as a contribution for the improvement of the sport, and his great love for it. Wonder if Hanyu will get a PhD and write a part 2...
2:40 Simone Biles 3:50 Chelsie Memmel, gymnast/skater UA-cam channels, Sunisa Lee 12:36 back to Simone, Jordan Chiles 16:29 lack of competitions 17:26 AI judging gymnastics, Hanyu's Thesis 23:15 Jan Hoffmann, subjective judging 25:26 Katharina Witt 27:50 KMT/Michael Marinaro 32:50 back to Simone, diving 36:45 Gage gymnasts 38:05 Vincent Zhou 40:05 roumanian team 43:30 mental health in skating, Mirai Nagasu, training group 55:42 sad news (? couldn't understand), biographies, Nancy Kerrigan 1:05:00 Galina story
Seems like you misunderstood everything about Hanyu's thesis. Is it so hard to check more sources and verify? I can't even tell if it was intentional or just ignorance.
They don't check sources because it requires work. There are translations of the summary of his thesis on the internet but it is easier to click on a not reliable video that pops up in their YT recommendations and base their opinion on that.
Hanyu's thesis abstract/summary was made public a month ago already and there were good translations of it, it's a shame that you only discuss it now when that channel posted the video of it. It isn't a very reliable source, even the company that made the motion capture system that Hanyu used for his thesis left a comment there that the video makers was mixing up key informations. Many Hanyu fans dislike the channel and don't watch their videos. The thesis is however not the full version, which is not published (yet). Of course Hanyu knows everyone can read it and he likely gave his permission for the publication of the summary of his thesis. Hope the full version will also be available soon. His thesis is the first steps to the direction of making the sport more fair. Using AI when it comes to underrotations, edges, even maybe levels of StSqs, spins will be inevitablel as the sport develops technically. Without it people will loose interest in the sport completely. It's fantastic Hanyu uses his experience and knowledge to help developing the sport and make it better. I respect him so much for it. I don't know what ISU will do, it'll take a long time to make such big changes in skating even if there is will to change things but at least the first steps are now done.
Yes. He is brilliant. He is doing a academically as much as Nathan but not much mention of his exceptional ability to balance school and work. His university in Japan is one of the best.
Hopefully the English translation will be submitted to a peer reviewed journal so it will have an impact on further work in this and other related areas - other sports could benefit but it has to get cited by others to gain broad acceptance within the scientific community.
@@youarestronger There is not much mention because English speaking media is Western centric and it is their interest to promote Chen more than a skater from the East. US media cares about their own skaters and for them US universities are the top, they don't care about the rest of the world. They don't know or care how prestigious Waseda University is which is one of the top universities in Japan. There was very heavy promotion in the past years about Chen going to university, but they can't continue to do it in the Olympic season because he is now taking 2 years off.
I’ve been following Chellsie’s journey for more than a year and didn’t realize just how invested I was until I teared up when she vaulted. 😭 Thanks for always being my Sunday afternoon entertainment.
With the way jumps get scored, I always wondered how it would be like if skating jumps were judged the same way gymnastic skills are judged. Like judging deductions only instead of subjectively rewarding excessive points to what’s considered a good jump
A computer would not likely be judging the entire performance. I assume AI would be used by the technical panel to assess the accuracy of the jumps and judges could determine the nuances of the rest of the program.
Look at the thumbnails 💕 Yuzuru Hanyu is the most graceful skater longed for by famous pre-cymbals and ballet companies. The elegant and soft usage of the shoulders and arms of the strings, and the usage of the edge work and joints that are spun at the same time are really wonderful.
It’s a pity that not so many Russians speak English, your podcast would be so popular! I listen to some Russian podcasts about skating and yours beats them all
From the new book, Total Olympics - Olympic Founder Pierre de Coubertin, “I do not approve of the participation of women in public competitions. In the Olympic Games, their primary role should be to crown the victors.” Now ladies gymnastics and figure skating are the only bankable events. A good read before Tokyo.
Simone’s tumbling is great, but this is probably my least favorite Simone routine. It kind of feels like heavily watered down NCAA choreography. It just doesn’t have the same jubilance and conviction she had in 2016..
She had the same floor music for basically three years. This one is brand new and the first time she’s competed with it. She might have left out some choreography that we’ll see more of each time out-Nationals, Trials, Olympics. At least I hope so. 🙂
imo, the subjectivity in goe is too obvious that for one element alone the numbers could span for more than 3 points from 9 judges. me as not an expert surely cannot understand, for example, how a hand down quad loop could get two +1, and the goe for that element spanned from -3 to +1 from 9 judges. i’m curious what goe the AI would give for that kind of mistake.
So glad I'm not the only one not a fan of Simone's floor choreo. It seems almost sacrilegious, as the tumbling is so fricking awesome, but the dancing part, not up to the tumbling & I think she's capable. When people say she has nothing to improve on and is just competing against herself, I think, she could improve here! Also, thought we were going to finally get a floor of hers without that creepy "Oh!" sound. What's up with that? Is it a good luck charm for her or something?
I agree with you 100% but it’s unfortunate that there’s zero incentive to improve choreography. In “artistic” gymnastics, they should really score the artistry in between tumbling passes.
The “oh” and butt drop thing also seem randomly thrown in and out of place in this program. I think she probably doesn’t give a crap about choreography anymore. She’s like I’m busy working on yurchenko double pikes. It’s too bad though because she does have a lot of performance ability when she wants to.
@@etherealtb6021 that’s the banquette at my dining table. I usually sit in one of the dining chairs. Getting wild and switching things up this week. Ha
I love how WCC brought an entire team of gymnasts of color to the competition. I think that says a lot about the environment Cecile and Laurent have fostered down there. I also don't think Nellie Biles would tolerate one iota of foolishness like what was going on at Texas Dreams in her gym. I'm with Dave - more Nellie Biles, please!
I think it has more to do with Nellie and the power and influence of Simone. The Landis were just hired to coach. They did have Olivia Greaves, but she is injured.
Breaking the Surface, Louganis' biography is definitely worth a read. Even without coming out, the rumours were enough to keep him from getting any lucrative endorsements. A few years ago people petitioned him to have him on the Wheaties box.
I died at 40:20. I have not laughed this hard in I don't know when. I can totally picture Lavinia Milosovici's floor routine with that music. I had Lavinia's poster on my wall along with Simona Amanar back in the early 90's when I was a gymnast, so I was already a fan. In Lavinia's defense, she had a mix of Gershwin in there. But, it was like Simone doing music from the movies Rio 1 & 2 in Rio (except for the Mas Que Nada mix which should have been the whole routine) and her doing Tokyo Drift for Tokyo.
Sautin is currently just a steel pilon in an abandoned natatorium in post-apocalyptic Moscow. Oh. Hooked on America was part of a series of cassettes of basically remixed classical music "for a modern audience". It was called "Hooked On Classics". Simona's "Nutrocker" is also from that. Do you remember Bontas beginning and ending her '91 floor with her hand over heart with 4 bars of The Star Spangled Banner played? OMG! Ha!
Cecile needs to fly her friend Elvire Teza to Houston so she can teach Jordan Chiles the Teza on beam (not the sideways Yang Bo, the other one that looks crazy and ends with the hip circle around the beam).
Dave, we need to look at the number of athletes who didn't have it in them, nor the coach behind them to re-pace them for this year, so several of those kids competed like Nastia in 2009...the diet and daily regimen didn't get the complete changes the kid needed to slow it down and then make it happen a year later...I am thrilled about DiCello's results, Kelly has been around for awhile, and was one of the coaches in competition with the Karolyi's in the 90's and not under the direction of Marta...
I’d say Simone Biles is Nathan Chen and everybody else is Todd Eldredge. She can do things that we won’t see other women gymnasts do for quite a while. And she’s capable of doing even more incredible skills, and make them competition level and consistent,, but FIG has started under-valuing her new ones as far as the difficulty level in the Code of Points, claiming they aren’t safe for other gymnasts to try. So she doesn’t do them. It’s insane. Bulhockey. If it isn’t safe, then BAN it. Safety assessments don’t belong in evaluating difficulty.
Lol not even close. For Nathan (in the men's field) to be on the same level as Simone (in the women's field), he would need a quad axel and 1 or maybe even 2 quints consistently as late in his career as age 26. What Simone as a 24 year old woman is doing are things that hardly any men had ever done in the history of the sport even with the men’s higher vault setting. What Nathan has done as a man in terms of skills is the same thing as many other men in the past 5 years. As this new quad trend evolved, many people today can land the same quad lutzes that nathan is praised for. For nathan to be simone, he needs to be 2-3 skills above other men And instead of bringing Simone up to Nathan’s level, it’s rather we should be bringing Nathan closer up to Simone when making comparisons between the two athletes. Nathan’s quads went along with the onset of the evolution of this quads trend. Simone’s skills came at her own league. With this quads trend, we’ll continue to see difficult quad elements being executed by others once nathan retires. Once Simone retires, I’m not sure when will be the next time we’ll see another adult woman perform the skills she is for as long and as consistently as she has.
@@Ogusername-h7e Who else is doing 5 quads exactly and landing them? Quads in the second half? 4F's in the 2nd half of the sP? Is HE above everyone else by quite a bit. You don't win competitions by 20-40+ points every freaking time by "doing the same thing everyone else is doing". You are taking it too literally, but NO man can do what he's doing even they might be able to land a 4lz on IG. When Nathan retires next year and Yuzu retires soon FS is going to go backwards with 3 quads probably being the max anyone does in FS. Nobody else is doing 5 quads. It's comparable. And Sasha is probably a Simone-like person too even if she can't win to save her life. She's doing things nobody else can do things most skaters probably won't do for awhile either.
@@rop888 He can do more repetitions than everyone else for sure. But that’s of the same jumps that many others can land. Simone is doing actual skills that physically can’t be done by another women. Just like Nathan, Simone can do more reps than everyone else but PLUS the fact her skills are skills that haven’t been humanely physically done by anyone else Many other guys can do 3-4 quads in a single program. Yes, that’s less than Nathan but not as significantly less than you’re making it. The actual skills Simone is doing is significantly superior in physical human capability than everyone else. And it’s not about the points. It’s about what is physically done by a human being. Nathan is doing jumps everyone else is doing. Simone is doing skills that no one else has done before. It’s not about how many times a quad can be repeated. That’s not what this argument is about. When I say “he’s doing the same thing as what everyone else is doing”, the word “thing” is referring to the actual skills being performed not the number of reps. Yes Nathan can do 1 more quad toe than everyone else. Simone currently has 4 skills named after her and is on her way of getting a 5th skill named after her. Simone being equivalent to nathan would be like Simone doing a double twisting double back for all four tumbling passes which is really nothing for her. Simone does a whole extra rotation in the air from everyone else. When Michelle Obama and Lebron James tweet at Nathan Chen during a non-Olympics competition calling him the GOAT, you can get back to me.
@@rop888 Trusova is more of a Simone than Nathan is. The greatness of Simone isn’t defined by repetitions of skills. It’s about the actual skills being performed. We don’t fawn over simone for how consistent she is. We fawn over her for the inhumane skills she’s able to do that no one else can. Multiple people can land a quad lutz in a competition.
@@rop888 Hanyu, Trusova, Vincent have all confirmed to have done 5 quads in practice. And I think Shoma and Kolyada physically are capable of doing 5 quads. Even though they’re not, there are still other men that are physically capable of doing 5 clean quads within 4 minutes of a practice session. No one is physically capable of imagining to do what simone is doing, even in a practice setting. If every mental headcase in skating was cured, there would more people at Nathan’s level. If every mental headcase in gymnastics was cured, simone would still be laughing away. Nathan is great. But with Simone there is just something biologically inhumanely exceptional with her specific specimen. I mean just compare the tumbling of Simone with any other gymnast of all time. Nathan’s jump executions aren’t super exceptional. In terms of execution, people can jump as well as nathan can, if not better. I wouldn’t say Nathan flies higher or bigger than everyone else. But Simone tumbles like no other human being can.
@@laurielynne2006 Not surprised. Nina was also the one who laughed when Becky Downie fell and broke her elbow. She couldn't hide her smile the entire time they were assessing her for injury.
Chelsie - a legend and icon, and yes, very real and relatable... what was amazing about her competing again was it is 12 years since she was an Olympic gymnast; and 8 plus years since she stepped away from the sport. No other gymnast ha ever done that; and probably not many élite athletes in any sport can get back to the same level or near enough to it, after such a long break away. She's even doing some skills she has never done before. Also, it not like she was continuing to do gymnastics outside of the elite arena, she wasn't doing it at all; she finished due to a major shoulder injury,.
YES WE KNOW! Every single time she is mentioned wash repeat. Im more a fan of Chuso. She didnt take a 8 year vacation. I'm sure many elites could if they wanted to as well.
@@lalareal180 no mean feat - i dont know any other gymnast who has done it? come back to elite level after such a long break and having had kids? Heck, some of the best gymnasts there are, have tried to come back after just a year or two out of the sport cant. Chuso is incredible, certainly no other gymnast - probably no other athlete of any sport - has managed to represent their country at that number of Olympic games.
Typical US ignorance- not bothering checking legit sources bc they are not in English and base their opinions on the first english speaking video they would find on YT.
Who do you think Chellsie should've replaced on the team? I feel like Marta was going to take two big vaulters, the Courtneys were guaranteed, Carly was a lock. That leaves Terin I guess. The Alyssa Bauman of her day.
@@TheSkatingLesson The McCool being overscored thing is somewhat of a myth. When you look at how McCool scored on beam (still a 9.1 out of a 9.7 SV with a 0.3 break, and hops on the dismount) and floor (9.2 with an OOB, missed a combo) in Athens, with the mistakes she made, her scores at Nationals and Trials actually weren't that out of line. She wasn't going to go into the 9.7s, but the 9.5s to mid 9.6s she was getting in the US at Nationals and Trials were totally reasonable. It would have been a pretty close call score-wise with Memmel - though I would trust Memmel more to hit.
Here's the issue with Katerina: she doesn't have a husband or children. When you say she needs the audience, that is all she has. And we over here in Germany are very wary of Katie because you don't really know where her loyalty is (Communist State or Free World) and to whom she is beholden. Better said, she is beholden to herself and no one else. It's really sad because her personality is a reflection of the state system that made her famous. It's like wondering if Nadia has a personality because she hides behind what the state built up about her and not her being herself. Does that make sense?
You are both what I call “cafe blasé” about this very exciting moment of being able to safely have a lil non zoom dinner party! 😂 Hopefully sooooooon for Torontonians!
Simon'es gymnastics is more like quint axles, rather than quad axles - as little as i know about skating, i know there area number of skaters that do quads ... whereas Simone is the only gymnast to do most of her skills, the exception being this vault, as it has been done by male gymnasts .. albeit nowhere near as good as Simone! so with this vault, she was first woman ever. it will be named after her if she competes it at either a world champs or the Olympics, and completes it successfully. It will be her 5th skill named after her . WHAT makes her so amazing is her pocket pour, she is only 4 foot 8 inches, but generates so much HEIGHT with her skills ...
@@TheSkatingLesson I think that’s the inherent tension for a lot of skaters. The sport encourages (maybe mandates) this very honed image, and being an effective UA-camr/influencer usually requires more candor/authenticity.
I have my doubts that you will speak more than a throw away line about Yuzuru Hanyu's thesis so I stopped listening after 17 minutes. Until then it was mostly about gay subjects. Isn't this a skating channel? Do you think only gay people watch? (not a homophobe, just not gay, BTW thats okay too). You used Yuzuru's name as clicking. I will unsubsidized and I'm sure you don't care. Good luck anyway.
@@TheSkatingLesson time stamp??? Plus i still can't get over how you responded with "Excuses" to a random negative person in a previous video who said yuzu was claiming asthma to have debilitated his performance at worlds ..... funnily enough its was the opposite, he only claimed it happened after his FS when in reality he was being humble about it ... it was confirmed by Russia media since a Russian physician helped calm his asthma attack 🙄......
@@garysimmons1485 auto correct error sweetie. There were 2 I saw when I reread my comment. You and minnie mouth have proved what I was attempting to avoid. Too bad there isn't room for any other opinion.
sorry is it their discussion about another sport and their athletes (gymnastics) that you described as a "gay subject" or their discussion about how US skaters could increase interest by inviting people into their training via UA-cam. Now sure exactly what you're referring to or how you think that has anything to do with sexual preference. Also, fascinating that you say you stopped listening at 17 minutes when that's about the exact time they started talking about it.
What are you guys really didn't check thoroughly about Hanyu's thesis... man it really disappointing how you twisted the reasons why he wrote his thesis. And turned it into entirely different meaning.. Seriously....?What are you guys really didn't check thoroughly about Hanyu's thesis... man it really disappointing how you twisted the reasons why he wrote his thesis. And turned it into entirely different meaning.. " Hanyu trying to correct his own unjustises " seriously...? Because it seems to me the reason he wrote his thesis for himself. Again Jonathan I hope u try to get ur facts checked before you spouted such nonsense...
It shouldn't take this long waiting for ISU to make decisions that would further the sport... and yet... 🙄 Loving the analysis and opinion as always (esp about judging). I'm so done with this jump vs artistry debate though - as you inferred as such, good technique is art! Maths and quantifiable elements of performance can be very artistic! Ugh what a false binary.
Nathan won't ever do these YT channels or 'fan services', he has his results speaking for him and he is leaving for his medical career after Olympics anyway. Good for him, a good head on his shoulder and not an attention or fame seeker.
Judges are part of the audience as well. They have their personal favourites that they enjoy watching, they have their National favourites and I’m sure there is pressure from each Federation to bump the marks of their own skater. There may be a very small percentage of judges determined to judge fairly, but country bias , federation pressure and the subjective nature of the sport makes it innately unfair to someone. I guess that’s why there are 9 judges. There will always be those who say Hanyu got robbed, even if he performed like a zamboni, there will be those who say Nathan Chen is over marked, even though he is clearly technically superior,,,,‘it’s the nature of the beast.
I’m a fan of the artistic side of figure skating, but I am completely for using technology to improve judging. It wouldn’t replace the judges, it would replace the technical caller. You don’t even need an AI to tell how underrotated a jump was, yet it takes human eye tens of seconds to tease it apart, and not with good accuracy. Plus, using technology to judge the technique would free up time for the judges to properly evaluate the artistic side, and maybe judges would finally start watching the skaters during the performance instead of their monitors.
Totally agree! Without the "technical caller", the judges can easily watch the skater skate. Maybe there should be judges who actually understand and have knowledge of dance, choreography, music, musicality, etc. These special judges can then give a better assessment of the skater's overall performance and be able to justify themselves.
I have seen Hanyu commenting on his thesis. He is also a science/tech nerd, and always has been interested in science behind figure skating. (One reason he gets on well with Ghislain’s coaching approach apparently.) His music also is edited with nano-second precision to match his movement, which he manages with the help of professional sound mixer. The main reason he wrote that thesis is not to criticise judges but to utilise technology for effective skill improvement. In doing so, he indentified challenges that human eyes pose, one of which happened to be the judging system, and explored possibilities of AI technology in overcoming them.
totally agree. why people always get Hanyu's intention in the wrong way, at least in the way he wasn't intended? he doesn't even wrote the thesis for himself, he wrote it for the future skaters.
@@euniceaudian totally agree (chef's kiss)
@@euniceaudian maybe I'm taking this too literally - you say he wrote it for himself (like a fun project to self publish)? But then someone else said it was to satisfy a degree requirement (writing it for his university)? I didn't even know he was in school so I am just confused by the two different narratives.
@@kristenjunker1632 Its a thesis for him to graduate his undergrad
@@kristenjunker1632 im not saying he wrote for himself tho. he is writing it for this degree thesis but his intention is to bring the sport to the better and not just for his own advantage
Hanyu's thesis on using AI to assess figure skating technical elements (correct edges on jumps, rotations of jumps and spins, step sequences) sounds a lot better than a bunch of country judges being biased to score their skaters up (and other nation's skaters down). But that's about it. In terms of the human element - the PCS - then that would need to have people judging it. Particularly, those with specialized knowledge of dance, music, choreo, etc. AI would also be good at assessing the numbers of particular judges (bias!), I bet. I hope that Hanyu continues his research to further help the sport of figure skating.
he didn't mention once the AI judging is for the artistic side of skating, so i kinda confused why people still dont get kt why he wrote the thesis. Hanyu even said once that you have to have a good tech ability to be an artistic skater. so what Jonathan said in the video kinda give me "if you're an artistic skater, wrong edges or under rotate your jump it's an okay thing coz you're being artistic" which is totally wrong lol
@@euniceaudian Yes, his research was done as a contribution for the improvement of the sport, and his great love for it. Wonder if Hanyu will get a PhD and write a part 2...
2:40 Simone Biles
3:50 Chelsie Memmel, gymnast/skater UA-cam channels, Sunisa Lee
12:36 back to Simone, Jordan Chiles
16:29 lack of competitions
17:26 AI judging gymnastics, Hanyu's Thesis
23:15 Jan Hoffmann, subjective judging
25:26 Katharina Witt
27:50 KMT/Michael Marinaro
32:50 back to Simone, diving
36:45 Gage gymnasts
38:05 Vincent Zhou
40:05 roumanian team
43:30 mental health in skating, Mirai Nagasu, training group
55:42 sad news (? couldn't understand), biographies, Nancy Kerrigan
1:05:00 Galina story
Thank u
Life saver
Seems like you misunderstood everything about Hanyu's thesis. Is it so hard to check more sources and verify? I can't even tell if it was intentional or just ignorance.
Hope you are having a great day.
Could you say what you believe it is about then?
They don't check sources because it requires work. There are translations of the summary of his thesis on the internet but it is easier to click on a not reliable video that pops up in their YT recommendations and base their opinion on that.
Hanyu's thesis abstract/summary was made public a month ago already and there were good translations of it, it's a shame that you only discuss it now when that channel posted the video of it. It isn't a very reliable source, even the company that made the motion capture system that Hanyu used for his thesis left a comment there that the video makers was mixing up key informations. Many Hanyu fans dislike the channel and don't watch their videos.
The thesis is however not the full version, which is not published (yet). Of course Hanyu knows everyone can read it and he likely gave his permission for the publication of the summary of his thesis. Hope the full version will also be available soon.
His thesis is the first steps to the direction of making the sport more fair. Using AI when it comes to underrotations, edges, even maybe levels of StSqs, spins will be inevitablel as the sport develops technically. Without it people will loose interest in the sport completely.
It's fantastic Hanyu uses his experience and knowledge to help developing the sport and make it better. I respect him so much for it. I don't know what ISU will do, it'll take a long time to make such big changes in skating even if there is will to change things but at least the first steps are now done.
Can you provide the link(s) to the better translations of his thesis? Thanks.
Yes. He is brilliant. He is doing a academically as much as Nathan but not much mention of his exceptional ability to balance school and work. His university in Japan is one of the best.
Hopefully the English translation will be submitted to a peer reviewed journal so it will have an impact on further work in this and other related areas - other sports could benefit but it has to get cited by others to gain broad acceptance within the scientific community.
@@youarestronger that's because nathan studying full time physically, yuzu studies online
@@youarestronger There is not much mention because English speaking media is Western centric and it is their interest to promote Chen more than a skater from the East. US media cares about their own skaters and for them US universities are the top, they don't care about the rest of the world. They don't know or care how prestigious Waseda University is which is one of the top universities in Japan.
There was very heavy promotion in the past years about Chen going to university, but they can't continue to do it in the Olympic season because he is now taking 2 years off.
I’ve been following Chellsie’s journey for more than a year and didn’t realize just how invested I was until I teared up when she vaulted. 😭 Thanks for always being my Sunday afternoon entertainment.
Thanks for sharing!!
With the way jumps get scored, I always wondered how it would be like if skating jumps were judged the same way gymnastic skills are judged. Like judging deductions only instead of subjectively rewarding excessive points to what’s considered a good jump
A computer would not likely be judging the entire performance. I assume AI would be used by the technical panel to assess the accuracy of the jumps and judges could determine the nuances of the rest of the program.
Look at the thumbnails 💕
Yuzuru Hanyu is the most graceful skater longed for by famous pre-cymbals and ballet companies.
The elegant and soft usage of the shoulders and arms of the strings, and the usage of the edge work and joints that are spun at the same time are really wonderful.
It’s a pity that not so many Russians speak English, your podcast would be so popular! I listen to some Russian podcasts about skating and yours beats them all
Thank you!
They should add Russian subtitles
Jordan Chiles looks great! I was very impressed last night. Going to WCC has definitely changed the game for her.
I think so too!
TSL admin has replied to all comments EXCEPT those which emphise the real intention of Hanyu's thesis 🤣🤣🤣 I wonder why :)
If this isn’t obvious then what will be 😂
So true !
The conversation about psychologists and therapy was one of the most interesting I've heard from you.
Why is no one talking about Yuzurus Blinding lights show program????!
Just got back from camping all weekend and am now ready to unwind. This is perfect timing. I love y'all at TSL!
From the new book, Total Olympics - Olympic Founder Pierre de Coubertin, “I do not approve of the participation of women in public competitions. In the Olympic Games, their primary role should be to crown the victors.” Now ladies gymnastics and figure skating are the only bankable events. A good read before Tokyo.
I do love sundays so much because of TSL!
Yay!!!
Same!!!
Can you put time stamps
Dave! Luv ur coverage of gymnastics too! Fabulous!
Thank you!
gymnasts' wearing their buns high on their head probably do so in order to extend their 'lines' (as in appear taller)
Simone’s tumbling is great, but this is probably my least favorite Simone routine. It kind of feels like heavily watered down NCAA choreography. It just doesn’t have the same jubilance and conviction she had in 2016..
I totally agree!
She had the same floor music for basically three years. This one is brand new and the first time she’s competed with it. She might have left out some choreography that we’ll see more of each time out-Nationals, Trials, Olympics.
At least I hope so. 🙂
we need a deep dive video on the US Classic! Jordan looked amazing, lots of unexpected falls, Chellsie!!! and is this the end of Riley?
Hoping Riley can do bars at Nationals!
Riley probably won't go to Tokyo, but she'll be amazing in NCAA!
Ai can definitely judge the technical elements and then there’s still PCs
imo, the subjectivity in goe is too obvious that for one element alone the numbers could span for more than 3 points from 9 judges.
me as not an expert surely cannot understand, for example, how a hand down quad loop could get two +1, and the goe for that element spanned from -3 to +1 from 9 judges.
i’m curious what goe the AI would give for that kind of mistake.
I think AI calls out the mistake, not giving the scores. Like the judges would still give the goes but based on what AI reports
So glad I'm not the only one not a fan of Simone's floor choreo. It seems almost sacrilegious, as the tumbling is so fricking awesome, but the dancing part, not up to the tumbling & I think she's capable. When people say she has nothing to improve on and is just competing against herself, I think, she could improve here! Also, thought we were going to finally get a floor of hers without that creepy "Oh!" sound. What's up with that? Is it a good luck charm for her or something?
I totally agree with you! Her floor music and choreo always seem the same. You can’t take anything away from her on the tumbling🤩
I agree with you 100% but it’s unfortunate that there’s zero incentive to improve choreography. In “artistic” gymnastics, they should really score the artistry in between tumbling passes.
@@laurielynne2006 She's a great tumbler probably the best ever but her routines are always the same with the same moves and upbeat music.
The “oh” and butt drop thing also seem randomly thrown in and out of place in this program. I think she probably doesn’t give a crap about choreography anymore. She’s like I’m busy working on yurchenko double pikes. It’s too bad though because she does have a lot of performance ability when she wants to.
@@laurielynne2006 no, she's still spectacular,so no incentive to improve her artistry!
Where's Johnathon's vase???
He is slipping!
You got a Zebra instead ;)
@@JohnnyOpera1 I like Zabra's, I have a Zebra pen!
@@JohnnyOpera1 is that a new couch as well?
@@etherealtb6021 that’s the banquette at my dining table. I usually sit in one of the dining chairs. Getting wild and switching things up this week. Ha
Love the set up Dave:)
❤️
You should put together an Evy Scotvold tribute video!
I’m a diver who is both a gymnastics and figure skating fan!
I love how WCC brought an entire team of gymnasts of color to the competition. I think that says a lot about the environment Cecile and Laurent have fostered down there. I also don't think Nellie Biles would tolerate one iota of foolishness like what was going on at Texas Dreams in her gym. I'm with Dave - more Nellie Biles, please!
I think it has more to do with Nellie and the power and influence of Simone. The Landis were just hired to coach. They did have Olivia Greaves, but she is injured.
I love it!
Made my day!!!! Having my 2 kings laugh, roast, and inform, nothing could be better
❤️❤️❤️❤️
I agree...not enough 'Do Da, Do da' in skating. Camptown Races now stuck in my head. Loved your thoughts on mental health and its importance.
❤️❤️
What do you think about Vicky and Nicky skating to Rachmaninoff?
Rachmaninoff for the Olympics? Groundbreaking.
Here. For. Everyone. Joining me. On. The Jordan. Hype Train.
YES!!!
I was so hoping for some gym content. Thank you!
More to come!
I've missed your blog ! Can't wait for upcoming gymnastics commentary
Wait every Sunday for this 😁😁 want the Russian ladies Pyramid to be a weekly feature haha xox keep up the fun chat gents! Xox
It will be once we have something to discuss!
Can’t you just make something up 😋 I joke I joke lol 😂 love the banter on this channel , it’s great 😁
Breaking the Surface, Louganis' biography is definitely worth a read. Even without coming out, the rumours were enough to keep him from getting any lucrative endorsements. A few years ago people petitioned him to have him on the Wheaties box.
What is the name of the person who had a bad accident due to a backflip? Had trouble getting the full name!
I died at 40:20. I have not laughed this hard in I don't know when. I can totally picture Lavinia Milosovici's floor routine with that music. I had Lavinia's poster on my wall along with Simona Amanar back in the early 90's when I was a gymnast, so I was already a fan. In Lavinia's defense, she had a mix of Gershwin in there. But, it was like Simone doing music from the movies Rio 1 & 2 in Rio (except for the Mas Que Nada mix which should have been the whole routine) and her doing Tokyo Drift for Tokyo.
Sautin is currently just a steel pilon in an abandoned natatorium in post-apocalyptic Moscow.
Oh. Hooked on America was part of a series of cassettes of basically remixed classical music "for a modern audience". It was called "Hooked On Classics". Simona's "Nutrocker" is also from that.
Do you remember Bontas beginning and ending her '91 floor with her hand over heart with 4 bars of The Star Spangled Banner played? OMG! Ha!
I linked to Bontas!
Go queen chellsie!!!!
i had the same thought about on ice perspectives and vincent too!!
100%!
What are the Chinese movies we need to watch before the Beijing Olympics?
Hope Beijing Olympics will be boycotted.
I love watching TSL. Sunday is my day watching with tea. 🥰Love TSL. I hope that everyone is staying safe.
Cecile needs to fly her friend Elvire Teza to Houston so she can teach Jordan Chiles the Teza on beam (not the sideways Yang Bo, the other one that looks crazy and ends with the hip circle around the beam).
That’s a wild skill! I’d love to see someone perform it again.
Here's the question: Is McCallum this year's McCool? She got *_gifts_* .
Maybe in the sense they both broke bones in their hand in the Olympic year
I totally want to be a guest at a TSL dinner party
It was great!
My favorite time of the week has come!
Quiplash is my favorite! You have to have the right crowd to make it fun...I'm sure your gang had a hilarious round or two :-)
So much fun!
Dave, we need to look at the number of athletes who didn't have it in them, nor the coach behind them to re-pace them for this year, so several of those kids competed like Nastia in 2009...the diet and daily regimen didn't get the complete changes the kid needed to slow it down and then make it happen a year later...I am thrilled about DiCello's results, Kelly has been around for awhile, and was one of the coaches in competition with the Karolyi's in the 90's and not under the direction of Marta...
I’d say Simone Biles is Nathan Chen and everybody else is Todd Eldredge.
She can do things that we won’t see other women gymnasts do for quite a while. And she’s capable of doing even more incredible skills, and make them competition level and consistent,, but FIG has started under-valuing her new ones as far as the difficulty level in the Code of Points, claiming they aren’t safe for other gymnasts to try. So she doesn’t do them.
It’s insane. Bulhockey. If it isn’t safe, then BAN it. Safety assessments don’t belong in evaluating difficulty.
Lol not even close. For Nathan (in the men's field) to be on the same level as Simone (in the women's field), he would need a quad axel and 1 or maybe even 2 quints consistently as late in his career as age 26. What Simone as a 24 year old woman is doing are things that hardly any men had ever done in the history of the sport even with the men’s higher vault setting. What Nathan has done as a man in terms of skills is the same thing as many other men in the past 5 years. As this new quad trend evolved, many people today can land the same quad lutzes that nathan is praised for. For nathan to be simone, he needs to be 2-3 skills above other men
And instead of bringing Simone up to Nathan’s level, it’s rather we should be bringing Nathan closer up to Simone when making comparisons between the two athletes.
Nathan’s quads went along with the onset of the evolution of this quads trend. Simone’s skills came at her own league. With this quads trend, we’ll continue to see difficult quad elements being executed by others once nathan retires. Once Simone retires, I’m not sure when will be the next time we’ll see another adult woman perform the skills she is for as long and as consistently as she has.
@@Ogusername-h7e Who else is doing 5 quads exactly and landing them? Quads in the second half? 4F's in the 2nd half of the sP? Is HE above everyone else by quite a bit. You don't win competitions by 20-40+ points every freaking time by "doing the same thing everyone else is doing". You are taking it too literally, but NO man can do what he's doing even they might be able to land a 4lz on IG. When Nathan retires next year and Yuzu retires soon FS is going to go backwards with 3 quads probably being the max anyone does in FS. Nobody else is doing 5 quads. It's comparable. And Sasha is probably a Simone-like person too even if she can't win to save her life. She's doing things nobody else can do things most skaters probably won't do for awhile either.
@@rop888 He can do more repetitions than everyone else for sure. But that’s of the same jumps that many others can land. Simone is doing actual skills that physically can’t be done by another women. Just like Nathan, Simone can do more reps than everyone else but PLUS the fact her skills are skills that haven’t been humanely physically done by anyone else
Many other guys can do 3-4 quads in a single program. Yes, that’s less than Nathan but not as significantly less than you’re making it. The actual skills Simone is doing is significantly superior in physical human capability than everyone else.
And it’s not about the points. It’s about what is physically done by a human being. Nathan is doing jumps everyone else is doing. Simone is doing skills that no one else has done before.
It’s not about how many times a quad can be repeated. That’s not what this argument is about. When I say “he’s doing the same thing as what everyone else is doing”, the word “thing” is referring to the actual skills being performed not the number of reps. Yes Nathan can do 1 more quad toe than everyone else. Simone currently has 4 skills named after her and is on her way of getting a 5th skill named after her. Simone being equivalent to nathan would be like Simone doing a double twisting double back for all four tumbling passes which is really nothing for her. Simone does a whole extra rotation in the air from everyone else.
When Michelle Obama and Lebron James tweet at Nathan Chen during a non-Olympics competition calling him the GOAT, you can get back to me.
@@rop888 Trusova is more of a Simone than Nathan is. The greatness of Simone isn’t defined by repetitions of skills. It’s about the actual skills being performed. We don’t fawn over simone for how consistent she is. We fawn over her for the inhumane skills she’s able to do that no one else can. Multiple people can land a quad lutz in a competition.
@@rop888 Hanyu, Trusova, Vincent have all confirmed to have done 5 quads in practice. And I think Shoma and Kolyada physically are capable of doing 5 quads. Even though they’re not, there are still other men that are physically capable of doing 5 clean quads within 4 minutes of a practice session. No one is physically capable of imagining to do what simone is doing, even in a practice setting.
If every mental headcase in skating was cured, there would more people at Nathan’s level. If every mental headcase in gymnastics was cured, simone would still be laughing away.
Nathan is great. But with Simone there is just something biologically inhumanely exceptional with her specific specimen. I mean just compare the tumbling of Simone with any other gymnast of all time. Nathan’s jump executions aren’t super exceptional. In terms of execution, people can jump as well as nathan can, if not better. I wouldn’t say Nathan flies higher or bigger than everyone else. But Simone tumbles like no other human being can.
Okay - as a Minneapolis resident. What's the story with Sensia Lee?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunisa_Lee
who was the european gymnast that said that about suni?
I think it was Nina Derwahl from Belgium 🇧🇪
I missed that part. What was said about Suni?
@@laurielynne2006 Not surprised. Nina was also the one who laughed when Becky Downie fell and broke her elbow. She couldn't hide her smile the entire time they were assessing her for injury.
Svetlana Khorkina is a legend! What a performer and unapologetically a diva. ❤️ her.
Chelsie - a legend and icon, and yes, very real and relatable... what was amazing about her competing again was it is 12 years since she was an Olympic gymnast; and 8 plus years since she stepped away from the sport. No other gymnast ha ever done that; and probably not many élite athletes in any sport can get back to the same level or near enough to it, after such a long break away. She's even doing some skills she has never done before. Also, it not like she was continuing to do gymnastics outside of the elite arena, she wasn't doing it at all; she finished due to a major shoulder injury,.
YES WE KNOW! Every single time she is mentioned wash repeat. Im more a fan of Chuso. She didnt take a 8 year vacation. I'm sure many elites could if they wanted to as well.
@@lalareal180 no mean feat - i dont know any other gymnast who has done it? come back to elite level after such a long break and having had kids? Heck, some of the best gymnasts there are, have tried to come back after just a year or two out of the sport cant. Chuso is incredible, certainly no other gymnast - probably no other athlete of any sport - has managed to represent their country at that number of Olympic games.
Sunday isn’t complete with you TSL
Typical US ignorance- not bothering checking legit sources bc they are not in English and base their opinions on the first english speaking video they would find on YT.
Who do you think Chellsie should've replaced on the team? I feel like Marta was going to take two big vaulters, the Courtneys were guaranteed, Carly was a lock. That leaves Terin I guess. The Alyssa Bauman of her day.
I believe McCool was deliberately overscored all year and I would not have taken Terin.
@@TheSkatingLesson Agreed on both.
@@TheSkatingLesson The McCool being overscored thing is somewhat of a myth. When you look at how McCool scored on beam (still a 9.1 out of a 9.7 SV with a 0.3 break, and hops on the dismount) and floor (9.2 with an OOB, missed a combo) in Athens, with the mistakes she made, her scores at Nationals and Trials actually weren't that out of line. She wasn't going to go into the 9.7s, but the 9.5s to mid 9.6s she was getting in the US at Nationals and Trials were totally reasonable. It would have been a pretty close call score-wise with Memmel - though I would trust Memmel more to hit.
I agree! Sundays are so much better because of TSL!
Here's the issue with Katerina: she doesn't have a husband or children. When you say she needs the audience, that is all she has. And we over here in Germany are very wary of Katie because you don't really know where her loyalty is (Communist State or Free World) and to whom she is beholden. Better said, she is beholden to herself and no one else. It's really sad because her personality is a reflection of the state system that made her famous. It's like wondering if Nadia has a personality because she hides behind what the state built up about her and not her being herself. Does that make sense?
You are both what I call “cafe blasé” about this very exciting moment of being able to safely have a lil non zoom dinner party! 😂 Hopefully sooooooon for Torontonians!
I hope you can have it soon as well!
Yes I love jack box tv and quiplash
So much fun!
Simon'es gymnastics is more like quint axles, rather than quad axles - as little as i know about skating, i know there area number of skaters that do quads ... whereas Simone is the only gymnast to do most of her skills, the exception being this vault, as it has been done by male gymnasts .. albeit nowhere near as good as Simone! so with this vault, she was first woman ever. it will be named after her if she competes it at either a world champs or the Olympics, and completes it successfully. It will be her 5th skill named after her . WHAT makes her so amazing is her pocket pour, she is only 4 foot 8 inches, but generates so much HEIGHT with her skills ...
4:20 Omg the Lavinia Milosovic impression, lmfao!!!
❤️❤️❤️❤️
I agree I am never a fan of Simone’s floor routines
She is amazing---just not my favorite!
Time stamp😂😂
I love cynthia potter so much. She never gets old. Unlike tim dagget
I love Cynthia!
@@TheSkatingLesson yes dave.
The Shib Sibs have done well with their social media videos, but I don’t know that it crossed over to broader name recognition.
You have to be very authentic on UA-cam and they tend to be more guarded. It was an issue with their skating as well.
@@TheSkatingLesson I think that’s the inherent tension for a lot of skaters. The sport encourages (maybe mandates) this very honed image, and being an effective UA-camr/influencer usually requires more candor/authenticity.
Bring back La!
She is a busy gal!
I'm a busy gal, too...but I always make time for TSL! xo
I have my doubts that you will speak more than a throw away line about Yuzuru Hanyu's thesis so I stopped listening after 17 minutes. Until then it was mostly about gay subjects. Isn't this a skating channel? Do you think only gay people watch? (not a homophobe, just not gay, BTW thats okay too). You used Yuzuru's name as clicking. I will unsubsidized and I'm sure you don't care. Good luck anyway.
You go Felicia,,,, “unsubsidize.” 🤔
Well, we did discuss it :)
@@TheSkatingLesson time stamp???
Plus i still can't get over how you responded with
"Excuses"
to a random negative person in a previous video who said yuzu was claiming asthma to have debilitated his performance at worlds ..... funnily enough its was the opposite, he only claimed it happened after his FS when in reality he was being humble about it ... it was confirmed by Russia media since a Russian physician helped calm his asthma attack 🙄......
@@garysimmons1485 auto correct error sweetie. There were 2 I saw when I reread my comment. You and minnie mouth have proved what I was attempting to avoid. Too bad there isn't room for any other opinion.
sorry is it their discussion about another sport and their athletes (gymnastics) that you described as a "gay subject" or their discussion about how US skaters could increase interest by inviting people into their training via UA-cam. Now sure exactly what you're referring to or how you think that has anything to do with sexual preference. Also, fascinating that you say you stopped listening at 17 minutes when that's about the exact time they started talking about it.
What are you guys really didn't check thoroughly about Hanyu's thesis... man it really disappointing how you twisted the reasons why he wrote his thesis. And turned it into entirely different meaning..
Seriously....?What are you guys really didn't check thoroughly about Hanyu's thesis... man it really disappointing how you twisted the reasons why he wrote his thesis. And turned it into entirely different meaning..
" Hanyu trying to correct his own unjustises " seriously...? Because it seems to me the reason he wrote his thesis for himself.
Again Jonathan I hope u try to get ur facts checked before you spouted such nonsense...
Dave, just like your Galina speak, the Cynthia Potter impersonation was spot on!🤣
Thank you!!!
It shouldn't take this long waiting for ISU to make decisions that would further the sport... and yet... 🙄 Loving the analysis and opinion as always (esp about judging). I'm so done with this jump vs artistry debate though - as you inferred as such, good technique is art! Maths and quantifiable elements of performance can be very artistic! Ugh what a false binary.
Nathan won't ever do these YT channels or 'fan services', he has his results speaking for him and he is leaving for his medical career after Olympics anyway.
Good for him, a good head on his shoulder and not an attention or fame seeker.
Isn't he doing data science at Yale? Has he indicated that he wants to medicine for graduate school?
@@MChung-sf6ie where did I ask?
It's not Hanyu who did that YT channel lol. Actually Hanyu fans dislike that channel and their videos, they are clearly Natezurus uh
Judges are part of the audience as well. They have their personal favourites that they enjoy watching, they have their National favourites and I’m sure there is pressure from each Federation to bump the marks of their own skater. There may be a very small percentage of judges determined to judge fairly, but country bias , federation pressure and the subjective nature of the sport makes it innately unfair to someone. I guess that’s why there are 9 judges. There will always be those who say Hanyu got robbed, even if he performed like a zamboni, there will be those who say Nathan Chen is over marked, even though he is clearly technically superior,,,,‘it’s the nature of the beast.
Fu Mingxia!