It's interesting seeing the old issues of loss of alt on movement ect. I remember doing a lot of work with DJI on this on their car number drones and today they have largely made this a thing of the past. Flying dead straight and keeping altitude in flight was always key issues. It's funny these things come back up again many years later as betaflightn starts it's journey on these modes. Looking good though. Pleased these are coming.
I just switched my Flywoo Explorer lr from Betaflight to Inav and I'm very happy with it. I fly slow cruise mostly anyway and the position hold works great. The OSD gui in Inav is much better and Inav also has mission planner.
An update...I decided that my quad actually flew better on Betaflight than it flew in Inav. In fact, I lost my drone shortly after switching to inav and sadly I didn't have logs files set up on my transmitter like it was automatically set up in Betaflight, otherwise I may have got my drone back. I'm not sure if Inav has logging but I'm back to Betaflight on my newer replacement drone.
there is a GPS Rescue. Otherwise, you want "Land" I think. That can put you into Angle Mode and lower the quad safely with a properly set throttle value (slow descent). You would not want ALT HOLD with just Angle Mode (no POS HOLD) as it would drift off due to not being perfectly level or wind.
Use this build option in 4.6dev, then set failsafe to land. With this configuration the drone will alt hold when failsafe and then will descend at 1 m/s (or whatever is set for the new CLI parameter). Ctzsnooze was testing this, read the pr (the comments especially since idk if this is documented at the top of the PR)!
I would love to see more INAV like features available in BetaFlight. I tried INAV awhile back and had tuning issues that made me give up and go back to BetaFlight. With the new build system, I could see BetaFlight being expanded in ways that might require H7 processor processors with more storage to run all the new features together but that would still leave older processors usable. We might finally have a good reason to buy H7.
You're absolutely right, I flashed bf4.5 from Inav 7.1, and even on defaults the jitter in the camera was gone in the same craft. However for gps Inav is still more tested and reliable - the way it slows to a poshold and ascend is much preferred. for whatever reason Bf still has sanity checks by default which is a huge risk for long range.
The one reason why I moved from betaflight to inav when started to learn fly, because betaflight did not have alt hold mode. In github was said that developers against it at all and do not want to implement it:) I really surprised to hear that it will be added :)
Beginners oriented quads like the BetaFPV Cestus range or Eachine whoops have had alt hold beginner mode for years now. It's about time betaflight adds it.
It's not really just for beginners though. I'd probably use it specifically as a failsafe instead of GPS rescue. Before you had 3 options: Drop dead out of the sky (which got me a battery and a FC killed once), self level and keep the throttle at a certain percentage (risking a flyaway or a crash into a tree or similar) or add a GPS and fly straight up, back to home and descend (which will not work inside buildings). Having the quad hover in place where it lost the signal is IMO the best failsafe strategy, as it works everywhere, doesn't need GPS and will not have the quad crash into anything.
It's also really useful for cinematographers, or anyone who can't focus 100% on flying because there are other things going on around them and they may need to let go of the radio mid flight.
Or you need to land somewhere with a high uptilt camera and it's a tight vertical descent between buildings or some trees. I had this once where I wanted to land in a garden where between the house, bushes and trees there was a gap of maybe 2m x 2m. In the end I managed to gently crash into a bush.
I was thinking they had a position hold available in 4.6 but don't see it yet. Is it coming out did I miss something? About to test my first GPS quad and don't want to flip to Inav something I've never used.
Just getting back into building and flying again after a lengthy break. Im asking why are people so stoked over RTH,Position hold, Altitude lock when flight controllers like the Naza were doing this 11-12 yrs ago. Or am I missing something somewhere???
Is there any possibility that BF 4.6 or later at least will support optical flow and range finder sensors (such as MTF-01 from MicoAir) instead of baro and gps to control althold and poshold modes? In your opinion of course :)
@@ctzsnooze thanks for answer. Are there any instructions for use these sensors in BF 4.6? My idea to use the optical flow and range finder sensors with althold and poshold modes are for little 2 inch cinewhoops that would fly mostly indoors where GPS is basicaly useless. Hope it's possible...
I have been trying to figure this out. Mainly with my speedybee35 (DIY) axis flying argus f7 aio and 2205 motors. I am having trouble getting my hover right. I have it set up with full gps and hover value set up right. It is going up n down over n over. I limited my throttle in failsafe 1100 and 1500. Testing in angle mode. I have that turned up to 90. Maybe i need to turn up magnometer #? 🤔 Any suggestions? Thanks for all the great info 😁
if ascending/descending while in ALT HOLD, something may be influencing the Baro on your flight controller OR the ALT HOLD PIDs may be too high for your craft. Try reducing the ALT HOLD PIDs in the CLI by 25%. If that doesn't change anything, then I would log it (AUTOPILOT ALTITUDE or BARO debug) to see if that signal is OK.
gps altitude from what I recall isn't very accurate, and barometric seems to be better. Do either Inav or Betaflight have the ability to adjust the mix of gps / barometric data that's used as inputs?
is there a way to combine altitude hold and horizon mode. I want to make a line of sight trick drone with this whoop board it has an onboard barometer that i've never used.
Thanks, Mark. Hey, I wanted to tell you that you were right - it is (apparently) quite "rude" to rip my 5-9" 8S quads around the neighborhood. They got together and sent an emissary to let me know that their moral has bottomed out due to my "hobby"... I was like, "Oh, I thought everyone loved seeing my robotic aircraft ripping 80-115 mph right over their treeline..." What a bunch of wussies, huh?
My neighbors love my 6s drone 😂 they're always coming over and asking "what's that screaming noise we keep hearing?" Anyone who's seen my drone has been impressed
@@serenestateofbeing1062 Yeah, weird - mine hate everything about it... sign 'o the times, I guess. Everyone's dumbed down and emotional and afraid of everything.
@mlentsch i fly at my parents house and they got 5 acres which probably helps. that sucks though man, everyone is different i guess. Have you tried out the fpv cycle 3s tp3? Or the 1s version, the babytooth, is even quieter. Quietest drone i own are those toothpicks. The 3s version is really fun and definitely way quieter than your 8s quad 😂😂
@@serenestateofbeing1062 I have a 6S 3.5" that's probably the best flying quad that I have, but still a bit loud... I fly my walksnail betafpv 2s whoop which is fun, but... you know - I have the need 4 speed! I wonder how they'll like my winter build when it's complete... 11" geprc pulsar, 12S - should draw between 8-9 kW. LOL!!!!
@uavtech Strange, when i opened thru web browser configuration 11.0 and tried to find 4.6 version for my speedybee V405 v3, it's showed that only 4.5.1 avaliable
@uavtech What i am doing wrong, after installing can't add button which will be assigned with this function. I mean when i press button i see a range but its not yellow . Thanks
When I started tuning my own quads I started with betaflight and I tried inav on a couple of my quads and didn't like the preformance I was getting. It seem to me that inav wasn't as refined as betaflight. Maybe I didn't give it a proper chance? It just every time I messed around with inav I was never happy with the results I got. Who knows???
I thought there was an altitude hold like a while back. I'm on bf 4.3 on a quad and went to set it up and here I am. What happened to that feature in the past. And now guess I have to update the fc to get it again? Ugh
Very interesting, do you think that position hold will be added in BetaFlight in one year ? I hope that RTH in BetaFlight will also become very reliable.
@@uavtech But we also have to thank the original author of alt hold: "bakwc". He left and closed the PR before it was finalized because ctzsnooze can be irritating at times. ctzsnooze then copied the PR and simplified it
@@uavtech bakwc was the one who originally coded this up. ctzsnooze copied the pull request and modified it after bakwc quit before alt hold was finalized.
Oh gosh - when I started learning to fly FPV, there was nothing I wanted more than alt hold and pos hold. But now - and keep in mind that I do not do long range cruising - I cannot think of a scenario where I might find alt hold useful. Or fun.
![Betaflight 4.6 POSITION hold [preview]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4zqieErZ2Go/mqdefault.jpg)
It's interesting seeing the old issues of loss of alt on movement ect. I remember doing a lot of work with DJI on this on their car number drones and today they have largely made this a thing of the past. Flying dead straight and keeping altitude in flight was always key issues. It's funny these things come back up again many years later as betaflightn starts it's journey on these modes.
Looking good though. Pleased these are coming.
@6:00 Betaflight will also alt hold using ONLY positioning data from an m10 gnss module! No baro needed!
Might need your help to set this up!
INAV can do that. And also - not using Baro alone is not a benefit. Benefits comes from customization.
I just switched my Flywoo Explorer lr from Betaflight to Inav and I'm very happy with it. I fly slow cruise mostly anyway and the position hold works great. The OSD gui in Inav is much better and Inav also has mission planner.
An update...I decided that my quad actually flew better on Betaflight than it flew in Inav. In fact, I lost my drone shortly after switching to inav and sadly I didn't have logs files set up on my transmitter like it was automatically set up in Betaflight, otherwise I may have got my drone back. I'm not sure if Inav has logging but I'm back to Betaflight on my newer replacement drone.
Hope they will add AltHold instead of Drop feature at failsafe. Thanks for great video!
there is a GPS Rescue.
Otherwise, you want "Land" I think. That can put you into Angle Mode and lower the quad safely with a properly set throttle value (slow descent). You would not want ALT HOLD with just Angle Mode (no POS HOLD) as it would drift off due to not being perfectly level or wind.
Use this build option in 4.6dev, then set failsafe to land. With this configuration the drone will alt hold when failsafe and then will descend at 1 m/s (or whatever is set for the new CLI parameter). Ctzsnooze was testing this, read the pr (the comments especially since idk if this is documented at the top of the PR)!
@@uavtechnew alt hold code replaces old land failsafe mode with a more controlled altitude managed descent. It's in the pr by ctzsnooze
Thanks for all the info and tips, Mark! 😃
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Thanks for that video helped me out a great deal on a hybrid build with walksnail and Anolog thermal mix.
I would love to see more INAV like features available in BetaFlight. I tried INAV awhile back and had tuning issues that made me give up and go back to BetaFlight. With the new build system, I could see BetaFlight being expanded in ways that might require H7 processor processors with more storage to run all the new features together but that would still leave older processors usable. We might finally have a good reason to buy H7.
I came back to betaflight as well from Inav. I think it flew better in Betaflight.
You're absolutely right, I flashed bf4.5 from Inav 7.1, and even on defaults the jitter in the camera was gone in the same craft. However for gps Inav is still more tested and reliable - the way it slows to a poshold and ascend is much preferred. for whatever reason Bf still has sanity checks by default which is a huge risk for long range.
yup
The one reason why I moved from betaflight to inav when started to learn fly, because betaflight did not have alt hold mode. In github was said that developers against it at all and do not want to implement it:)
I really surprised to hear that it will be added :)
Beginners oriented quads like the BetaFPV Cestus range or Eachine whoops have had alt hold beginner mode for years now. It's about time betaflight adds it.
It's not really just for beginners though. I'd probably use it specifically as a failsafe instead of GPS rescue. Before you had 3 options: Drop dead out of the sky (which got me a battery and a FC killed once), self level and keep the throttle at a certain percentage (risking a flyaway or a crash into a tree or similar) or add a GPS and fly straight up, back to home and descend (which will not work inside buildings). Having the quad hover in place where it lost the signal is IMO the best failsafe strategy, as it works everywhere, doesn't need GPS and will not have the quad crash into anything.
It's also really useful for cinematographers, or anyone who can't focus 100% on flying because there are other things going on around them and they may need to let go of the radio mid flight.
Or you need to land somewhere with a high uptilt camera and it's a tight vertical descent between buildings or some trees. I had this once where I wanted to land in a garden where between the house, bushes and trees there was a gap of maybe 2m x 2m. In the end I managed to gently crash into a bush.
Hey,
Will I be able to use altitude hold function without GPS on my quad?
I ❤ your BF videos 🌱
bro came outta nowhere and is like the new bardwell
I was thinking they had a position hold available in 4.6 but don't see it yet. Is it coming out did I miss something? About to test my first GPS quad and don't want to flip to Inav something I've never used.
I have installed firmware 4.6.0, but I do not have this ALTOLD mode option.
you have to selectnwhen flashing. ALT and POS hold are options.
It's strange for me to see Altitude Hold Mode even on 4.5.1 in the old configurator. Is it safe to try it on 4.5.1?
Just getting back into building and flying again after a lengthy break. Im asking why are people so stoked over RTH,Position hold, Altitude lock when flight controllers like the Naza were doing this 11-12 yrs ago. Or am I missing something somewhere???
because now coupled with how great BF flies. Best in the industry for filter and PID loop code.
@@uavtech Gotcha, thanks for the reply.
Is there any possibility that BF 4.6 or later at least will support optical flow and range finder sensors (such as MTF-01 from MicoAir) instead of baro and gps to control althold and poshold modes? In your opinion of course :)
We have PR’s supporting them, but they are of limited value other than for controlled landings, where they are really helpful.
@@ctzsnooze thanks for answer. Are there any instructions for use these sensors in BF 4.6? My idea to use the optical flow and range finder sensors with althold and poshold modes are for little 2 inch cinewhoops that would fly mostly indoors where GPS is basicaly useless. Hope it's possible...
What sensors are required for Betaflight althold? Is baro enough?
Baro ONLY works, but it's not as accurate. But if you are up at altitude, you don't need it to hold within half a meter.
Does only Alt Hold is coming? I thought also Pos Hold is coming.
I have been trying to figure this out. Mainly with my speedybee35 (DIY) axis flying argus f7 aio and 2205 motors. I am having trouble getting my hover right. I have it set up with full gps and hover value set up right. It is going up n down over n over. I limited my throttle in failsafe 1100 and 1500. Testing in angle mode. I have that turned up to 90. Maybe i need to turn up magnometer #? 🤔 Any suggestions? Thanks for all the great info 😁
if ascending/descending while in ALT HOLD, something may be influencing the Baro on your flight controller OR the ALT HOLD PIDs may be too high for your craft. Try reducing the ALT HOLD PIDs in the CLI by 25%. If that doesn't change anything, then I would log it (AUTOPILOT ALTITUDE or BARO debug) to see if that signal is OK.
gps altitude from what I recall isn't very accurate, and barometric seems to be better. Do either Inav or Betaflight have the ability to adjust the mix of gps / barometric data that's used as inputs?
yes, both do.
At the moment, fusing Baro and GPS for altitude is not all that great in Betaflight. That’s an area we can improve on.
is there a way to combine altitude hold and horizon mode. I want to make a line of sight trick drone with this whoop board it has an onboard barometer that i've never used.
No, because Horizon mode could make the quad inverted, and then it cannot hold altitude.
Thanks, Mark. Hey, I wanted to tell you that you were right - it is (apparently) quite "rude" to rip my 5-9" 8S quads around the neighborhood. They got together and sent an emissary to let me know that their moral has bottomed out due to my "hobby"... I was like, "Oh, I thought everyone loved seeing my robotic aircraft ripping 80-115 mph right over their treeline..." What a bunch of wussies, huh?
My neighbors love my 6s drone 😂 they're always coming over and asking "what's that screaming noise we keep hearing?" Anyone who's seen my drone has been impressed
@@serenestateofbeing1062 Yeah, weird - mine hate everything about it... sign 'o the times, I guess. Everyone's dumbed down and emotional and afraid of everything.
@mlentsch i fly at my parents house and they got 5 acres which probably helps. that sucks though man, everyone is different i guess. Have you tried out the fpv cycle 3s tp3? Or the 1s version, the babytooth, is even quieter. Quietest drone i own are those toothpicks. The 3s version is really fun and definitely way quieter than your 8s quad 😂😂
@@serenestateofbeing1062 I have a 6S 3.5" that's probably the best flying quad that I have, but still a bit loud... I fly my walksnail betafpv 2s whoop which is fun, but... you know - I have the need 4 speed!
I wonder how they'll like my winter build when it's complete... 11" geprc pulsar, 12S - should draw between 8-9 kW. LOL!!!!
@mlentsch same I love going fast. It completely changed my addiction for fast cars into an addiction of fast drones. And omg dude 😂😂
when it will be avaliable?
now. you can flash dev build.
@uavtech
Strange, when i opened thru web browser configuration 11.0 and tried to find 4.6 version for my speedybee V405 v3, it's showed that only 4.5.1 avaliable
@maxk3941 need to select Expert at top and Development. Them 4.6 will be an option.
@uavtech
What i am doing wrong, after installing can't add button which will be assigned with this function. I mean when i press button i see a range but its not yellow . Thanks
When I started tuning my own quads I started with betaflight and I tried inav on a couple of my quads and didn't like the preformance I was getting. It seem to me that inav wasn't as refined as betaflight. Maybe I didn't give it a proper chance? It just every time I messed around with inav I was never happy with the results I got. Who knows???
for some reason, its not loading the file onto my f405...
push in the boot loader button and then connect the FC to the USB that plugs into the computer. Then toggle the NO REBOOT option in the flash page.
@uavtech thanks for the reply, but I realised it was my pc's corrupted drivers😅
I thought there was an altitude hold like a while back. I'm on bf 4.3 on a quad and went to set it up and here I am. What happened to that feature in the past. And now guess I have to update the fc to get it again? Ugh
I don't use a GPS but want to have the hold feature and know I don't it a long time ago.
Very interesting, do you think that position hold will be added in BetaFlight in one year ?
I hope that RTH in BetaFlight will also become very reliable.
It all comes down to an individual coding this up. Example: for ALT HOLD we have Chris Thompson to thank (handle: CTZSnooze).
@@uavtech But we also have to thank the original author of alt hold: "bakwc". He left and closed the PR before it was finalized because ctzsnooze can be irritating at times. ctzsnooze then copied the PR and simplified it
@@uavtech bakwc was the one who originally coded this up. ctzsnooze copied the pull request and modified it after bakwc quit before alt hold was finalized.
Thanks. I did not see that!
Oh gosh - when I started learning to fly FPV, there was nothing I wanted more than alt hold and pos hold. But now - and keep in mind that I do not do long range cruising - I cannot think of a scenario where I might find alt hold useful. Or fun.
Look forward to update to 4.6 to test it out 👍👍👍🫡🫡🫡