i honestly think there was essentially a clash of mentalities here: Diana lived as a woman of her time while Elizabeth lived following the example set by her grandmother. she married George V not out of love, but out of duty. then, as time passed, George and Mary fell in love. Elizabeth thought something similar would happen with Charles and Diana, but both of them had a very different outlook on life. neither thought duty was more important than love.that’s it. even with all the goodwill in the world, Elizabeth would have never been able to help Diana, and Diana would have never fit the mold of the perfect Queen Consort the family wanted.
It’s odd then they really pushed for the marriage. You’d think they would have been more diligent in trying to find someone who was up to the task. I suppose they might have attributed any doubts they had to Diana’s youth. And I suppose they expected her to mature as countless royals had had to do in the past. But she didn’t do what they expected. Unfortunately for her, she was caught in a transition time in Britain, where the social pressures were changing. And she got caught up in it. I don’t think anyone handlers the situation particularly well.
Sadly, the issue of virginity was a very real concern for the future king’s wife, and Diana Spencer met the qualification when very few English women did. She also had the extraordinary bloodlines of her ancestry, making her almost more qualified for the royal role than the family she married into.
They probably thought they could mould her to fit the role and the family. It might've worked, if Charles had loved her and been prepared to be faithful.
Though this is a dramatized and imagined series, I think overall impression some of us get from the real life situations AND these dramatized ones is that the Queen and most of the senior members were privately exasperated by Diana's sensitivity and craving for warmth and compassion and she in turn was openly frustrated by their lack of mindfulness and care (in relationships) and their passivity. It seems only two people have been able to marry comfortably into this kind of family and adjust. One of them was very late in life after a long "courtship" so she was able to really know what marrying the Crown meant giving up and taking on.
We have no idea what they did and didn’t do. The Crown is not history. The person who developed the series is an ardent anti-monarchist. Diana likely had serious abandonment issues and that appeared to affect all her relationships, romantic and otherwise. Her family of origin was a mess. At various times she was at odds with her mother, her father, her sister, her brother. This coloured her perception of her situation and the people around her. Marriage to Charles, a man who was in love with someone else, brought out her worst fears of being abandoned. Sure, the monarchy as an institution is pretty hidebound, but Diana and Charles were the authors of their own misfortune. Diana had several affairs and Charles had Camilla. That’s not a very mature way of trying to save a marriage-by either party. People who knew the Queen said that she was nothing if not practical, and accepted the marriage breakup as a necessary evil. We don’t really know what she thought of Diana personally, but Sarah Ferguson always speaks very highly of the Queen, noting that she was able to maintain a friendship even after Sarah’s behaviour caused a bit of a scandal and she was divorced from Andrew. Writers of The Crown know that it makes better television if a villain can be named-in most cases, The Crown’s villain is the monarchy.
@@catherinethibeault6636 I don't think they're an ardent anti-monarchist. They have to breathe life into the story somehow. A certain amount of poetic license should be allowed.
There seemed to be a clash of communication style between these specific individuals. At least, that is what the show is depicting for us. And the argument they form here seems well-formulated to me. Though the point of how we do not possess all of the facts is a valid one too.
I think Diana was her own worst enemy much of the time. I have grown tired of the constant adoration and borderline mythology of this very flawed woman. Diana seemed to be a bit self-absorbed and spiraling due to her own mental health issues. She both wanted the sympathy and adoration of the public, but also claimed to have wanted privacy (when it suited her). I think Harry has much of her same temperament whereas William is more like his father.
I felt bad for Diana I grew up watching her on the news ones in awhile but she did have a lot of issues herself I mean in the crown princess Ann said it so well when she said Dianna is young for her years and Charles is old for his years. Plus watching the crown the only time they had a warning about intense situations is when Dianna was on the topic.
And then how can you know what Queen Elizabeth II thought about Lady Diana? And the story surrounding Lady Diana's death says that the late Queen Elizabeth II, only under pressure from the people, made a public statement! And on the day of Lady Diana's funeral, the late Queen Elizabeth II did the unthinkable, bowing her head as the coffin passed by, as a sign of respect. As a Brit, I think about how much of a sacrifice this simple gesture must have been!
The break down of Prince of Wales's marriage was caused by many factors the press, the love triangle, their age gap plus the fact Charles and Diana were at their core very different people.
@@TJ1920 they don't. But you seem to want to just blame Charles. Diana wasn't an innocent party in this. So either they are both to blame or neither are to blame, but to blame only one person is ridiculous.
@@evalynnchristiansen9430 Nobody thinks it is... we just can talk about people in a show as if they are real. Have you never heard people talk about soap opera characters? And these characters are even easier, as they are BASED ON real people, and we know that the writers had access to all of the same background as we can find...
I believe that love is difficult for the Royals. But not necessarily dangerous. I will say that the depth and complexity is greater in scope for their personal situation than is typical for most of us outside of that system.
If you want a relationship of love, you don’t marry into an Institution, you marry a guy without much money or responsibilities and you hope for the best. She screwed up 🤷🏻♂️. One does feel bad for her because she certainly had an awful time, but she brought it onto herself in a way. It wasn’t all the Royal Family’s fault…
@@themarquis336 If you want a relationship of love, then you build one up slowly over time with the right person. Institution or no institution. Your discrimination is not only absurd and nonsensical, it's unnecessary. When you look at people, do you not see them??? Only their socioeconomic class?? I hesitate to ask as to your personal situation. My best guess is that whatever it is, you "brought it on yourself"...and you clearly played a non-insignificant role in that.
It’s fiction. This conversation never happened. The writer and producers invented it as so much else. I know several people portrayed in The Crown - none royal, just officials or London people - none of them were approached or asked about anything and they didn’t recognise anything. They were baffled by it. When I saw them portrayed I couldn’t recognise them, I don’t mean physically, I mean as characters, a strong decisive guy portrayed as weak and hesitant. I didn’t know the late Queen but friends who did said Claire Foy nailed the young Queen but the two later portrayals were the Queen out of the newspapers, nothing like the real woman behind the scenes.
We just watched the episode about Jackie Kennedy and I researched it after and was shocked to find how little of the episode was true. Really important facts were just changed throughout the whole thing. This series is beautifully produced and you get the sense of being there in history, but that sense should be questioned thoroughly. Much liberty has been taken with actual history.
Thank you for sharing this, it is informative. Though I take it with a grain of salt. I believe that the guestimation is, to some extent, worth while. I admit, transparency on that is worthwhile, too. I'd rather not get carried away, and believe I _know_ these characters as well as the show seems to believe it does. Either way, the show does a good job and examining what is worthwhile to examine. And to share with us the how and why of these life events after the fact.
No point trying to tell this Diana fanclub that; The Crown has completely written history for them and they swallow it hook line and sinker. Diana = Good. Queen = Bad.
The crown only became based on fiction when it turned out Season 5 and 6 were based on Harry's insider information. He was a kid through most, god knows what's real outside of the documented stuff.
I'm sorry but the Queen said that like her 48 years were something to be proud of. Diana was married to a man that didn't love her and always loved someone else and they expected her to just accept that to save their reputation😳 Diana was right he isn't fit to be King. His uncle had to abdicate the thrown because he couldn't have his divorced woman and yet he is king and also a divorced man himself married to a divorced woman who happily played third wheel and publicly at that smh what an embarrassment to say the most. The nerve of her making Diana feel bad for speaking her truth.
@@Xerxes2005 he wasn't the king at this point and the facts are the facts. The Queen bent the rules for her immature children turned adults and that's why they have all embarrassed her with their actions. Talking about her 48th anniversary like she had a faithful husband the first smh miss me with that
@@tasiamurbano7283 I like how you contradict yourself. Now, why is he unfit now? Why did he do since his mommy died that makes you believe he should not be King?
Diana had the announcement of the interview ho out on the then prince of Wales birthday and to air on the queen and prince Philips anniversary...oh the princesses claws were out...
We don't know whether this scene accurately portrays the truth, but if it does what the queen is doing here is gaslighting Diana. The popular stance is that the queen never put her foot wrong. Well, she did, numerous times especially toward the decay of Charles and Diana's marriage.
The Queen in this scene is gaslighting the shit out of Diana. She can't admit that her actions or inaction did anything to inform Diana's outcomes and she heaps all the blame on her. If it's so important to keep these conversations, "in house" then shouldn't it be a priority to make time for these conversations in their "busy" schedules? Diana, the character in this movie, could not win with that family.
Correct. I don't think it purports to be factual. I think it's more of an interpretation of existing facts and presenting what could have probably been happening.
They all were too busy to concern themselves with Diana's state of mind. And they call themselves a family. The Queen also declined to assist Diana with regard to Charles's infidelity.
I think whoever married Charles was always going to be in an impossible position. He never really got over Camilla and The Crown demanded he marry and produce an heir. Whether Diana’s psychological problems were caused by the stress she was under or genetic and would have always appeared, who knows. But she was a modern woman. 500 years ago, she would have been silently miserable her whole life ,or beheaded for daring to be a woman with an opinion.
I think a woman who knew the score and who didn't care, who was his friend and the mother of his children, would've been fine. Any number of women wouldn't have cared he wasn't in love with them, he was prepared to treat them with a respectful distance. Diana was too young to figure out that was what was going to happen; she wanted love. They had a huge miscommunication on what their marriage meant; Charles wanted a future queen and princess of wales, Diana wanted a husband. unluckily they only figured this out after they had already gotten married.
Not to mention that she was taken at a young age and expected to be like the others in the royal family. Let's not forget that Charles had Diana's sister first, and then he saw Diana. The queen of all things should have stopped Charles from seeing Camella and knew it was adultery. In all that went on and continues to go on, can they not see that Harry wanted peace and peace for his wife? It seemed that everyone, including the queen, saw someone while in marriage and the duke as well with the holywood stars, and who knows who else? Let's remember that the duke was worried for his son to be king for a top job.
Seriously, what does this matter now? On September 8th, 2 years passed since the death of Queen Elizabeth II, on August 31st, 27 years passed since the death of Lady Diana, why not let them rest in eternal sleep.
I know this is a drama, but no doubt a conversation such as this happened...its a shame Diana, Princess of Wales, could not see the damage done by that interview.
I think what stands out to me most is that these two women are at each other, each tearing down the other for what they didn't get. Diana wanted support and Elizabeth wanted obedience. But it was Charles that made this mess. It was his choices again and again that put both of these women into situations where they had little to no control against him. He was a 1st prince, born to be a king. There were plenty of things in his life he had no control over. Marriage was one of them. And instead of finding a way to deal with it or make it manageable, he whined and grumbled and cheated while also finding a way to blame everyone else. Yes Elizabeth forced him. Yes Diana wouldn't deal with a husband who didn't love her and cherish her. But I still don't understand how this became a battle of wills between these ladies instead of what it should have been.... calling Charles out for all his bad decisions. But unfortunately because he was to be king, he couldn't be to blame, he literally could not be in the wrong. And yes Elizabeth was very busy and couldn't spend all her time worrying about how Diana felt about things. I do agree that things should have been resolved in the family and not in public, but obviously Diana felt like that was never going to be a possibility. SMH, I was hoping that Diana's sons would learn from all this and fix things. But it looks like William simply wants to be king, whatever that means, and Harry just wants to be lazy, rich and famous.
@@roddyontheroad7370 An outcast from what? She definitely had mental health issues, and I think she would have been better served by a doctor than a journalist.
@@fortranwarrior8716She was treated by a number of doctors throughout the years. Some even employed by her husband’s household, reporting everything back to him.
If you can’t spare half an hour to listen to your own family and take care of them. You’re not going to take time to really care about the citizens. And if you defended her, you would’ve stopped Camilla from being around the royal family. So I call bullshit!
Of course Charles has his parts in the breakdown of the marriage. But Diana did some bad choices in the 90s. The Andrew Morton book was only the beginning, but still discreet - compared to the interview in 1995 - which she never should have given. Plus she surrounded herself by the very much wrong people, which eventually led to her tragic death.
Diana's marriage to Charles was a TOTAL mismatch and a train wreck. The Royals lived in 1920's mentality, while Diana lived in the present. She was too young and wanted to marry her prince charming. Charles was not that, and was preoccupied with Camilla. The only good things that came out of that marriage was: Diana became a beloved princess to British subjects, Princes William and Harry were born. William, the Crown Prince, is a huge gift to England as is Princess Catherine.
Elizabeth was awful. She forced them to marry because she thought it was best for the image of the crown, then when that failed, she blamed the two of them for not "putting up and shutting up"-- they ignored both Diana and Charles. They both suffered horribly. Diana had no support for her mental health. The Queen refused to take any responsibility for the fact that HER choices were at fault for the Charles x Diana situation, and the simple fact that they wouldn't "suffer in silence" in somehow THEIR fault. Yes, they were too busy to think about how to make her life "miserable" so it might not have been malicious, but they were also too busy to HELP and did not take any accountability for that fact. Not once did they slow down from royal duties and say "this is a personal emergency we must take time to address"... The Queen was so dedicated to "the role" that she forgot how to be human and as a result completely failed these people, including Diana. I'm so sick of how she blames everyone, her schedule, her business, their inability to just "put up and shut up" instead of actually reflecting that SHE made a poor choice by allowing the marriage and is now dealing with the consequences.
Never complain never explain.Diana had to do the interview to get the divorce because the queen refused to grant them .As soon as that interview happened,the got a divorcedl
Diana had humanity somethings you cannot put a price on, imagine how popular the Royal family would have been with charles and Diana at the helm Harry would have never walked away
It's not genuine affection though is it? Even when she's telling Diana she defends her to others because she loves her as a member of the family the way she's talking to her it's like she's having a go at her 😢 It's so hostile and cold 😢
I expect all the hate, but... The Queen is right. Expressing your frustration, and grief, and unsatisfaction is natural and just. But to wash all the dirty laundry in public to claim sympathy and to shine the light on your own, putting your children into impossible position of dealing with the consequences cannot be right. Diana (the character in the series, mind) could have it all but she burned the last bridge by turning the Queen against her with this interview. (We don't know what happened and was talked of in real life. I speak about a scene in a fictionalized tv series. )
In 1996 DAYton (DAY = is DAN) peace agreement was signed, and someone should investigate correlation with Danmark's princess Isabella's DNA & prince Christian's DNA !!! Those Crown "COUSINS" are taking eachOther OUT ?
After hearing the podcast in the old book " The housekeepers dairy" where a close staff member wrote. I was shocked at how disturbed and manipulative Diana was. I no longer feel the same about her.
@@gracesanity6314 you know what they say, there is his version her version and the truth, just like this row with Harry the royals are not allowed to speak out ?
I heard "The Housekeepers Diary" is a very insightful book ! Diana in public was very different from the private Diana 😕😕. She was a rageaholic behind the palace doors 🤢🤢 and probably this is the Diana that the queen had to unfortunately deal with. I'm wondering if Diana wanted to make up her own rules but it just doesn't work that way!
Had I been in Diana's shoes, I would have corrected the Queen on one point. "I was married to Charles, but he never made me his wife. He had Camilla for that, and with the blessing of this family."
2:51 Whether this (or anything similar) was said in real life or not & I doubt Elizabeth herself even realised what she was doing, but this is gaslighting in its plainest form. To tell Diana that the way the Royal family made her feel was all misinterpreted & her fault for perceiving it that way while painting herself as a noble person who defended her is just her denying the hurt she dealt Diana & acknowledging that the way Royals handle emotional affairs is detrimental & destructive & ALWAYS has been - look no further than Harry & Meghan who were affected in almost the exact same way decades later & left as a result. Elizabeth had her way of dealing with things when it came to family & Diana had hers, but it’s when one challenges the other that you see which side ultimately prevails.
I know this conversation is fiction for this TV drama, but do you guys think a conversation like this between Diana and the Queen really happened? And if so, would it have been like this or what do you guys think, considering we will probably never really know?
Queen is kinda gaslighting Diana here. It's like she's saying we have all lived this misery, why do you think you'll be spared? Diana was facing the public humiliation from her husband. How was she supposed to carry on with such relationship just because of duty? Also, why didn't royals work actively to cast Camilla aside? She was shamelessly pursuing a married man.
Look I’m usually on the Queen’s side in this series but not this time. It’s easy to see the royal family post 1997 as serving the nation without complaint… but before 1997 that was not the impression they gave. They were an insular, aristocratic family that didn’t want people knowing what they were doing, didn’t like paying taxes, didn’t want people taking their boats or castles… Diana changed this dynamic. And before it changed she was the accesible face of that family. It’s very easy to forget.
The Queen defended her, but she never listened to her. There is a difference in listening, and then having someone's back. I've had people listen to me (or who I thought listened to me), but then they didn't have my back. Both are important. How was Diana suppose to know the Queen backer her if she was always turned away when she requested a private audience.
diana was a lovely person but to be honest she wasnt strong enough to be a queen too emotional queen elizabeth was unemotional emotions would get in the way of ruling with a steady head.
@evalynnchristiansen9430 depends on what you are reading. If you are reading British tabloids, she most certainly is evil. And if you are reading American tabloids and watching Harry's interviews, then she is a saint and Camilla and the British press are the villain. It's sad to see that in all parts of the world, it's usually the daughter in law who gets blamed for the son drifting away. We don't appreciate the fact that maybe the son needed someone to embrace too, maybe he was lonesome before the wife came along. Men are less likely to open up to family after reaching adolescence. Romantic love gives them the opportunity to do that, and sometimes to others, that seems alienating. Please get on with your lives and stop hating someone you don't know. Harry is a big boy. No one can dictate terms to an adult. They have brains of their own.
Yeah, this was a 101 in gas lighting first.She's saying such conversation should be had in private.But then she's explaining how they're all too busy to have such a conversation w t f...
its weird how she is making Diana feel guilty, your son can fuck around and abuse her and yet she should shut up. People always ask queen about gossip on Diana but just because she has nothing to say about it doesn't mean Diana must do the same
The queen and the family never accepted diana as she resisted to be cheated and silenced like the queen who tolerated the cheating of her husband. She had dignity and self respect that the queen lacked with her husband who was openly in affairs.
Her majesty and his royal highness made their marriage work as they were told be ideal as per their time...Diana was a women of the modern times with her own mind and self respect and refused to be in an open marriage that her husband wanted.
so Diana was not awful or hopeless...just a prisoner in a cold family. She broke out and had to undergo a lot to break free from the torture of her failed marriage who by the way was not meant to be because charles loved camilla and not her. Had her family not forced him to marry Diana things would have been a lot different
The Queen was right. Diana was a selfish child who only thought of herself, not if her duty to the Queen, to her husband, the future King, nor to the sons she supposedly adored.
@@ClintGreen-nv3xr Very well said! I'm guessing that Diana was emotionally unstable and callous. The royal family began to see that Diana was mentally ill and DID have therapists to help Diana but she gave up on therapy. Odd, how Diana gave speeches on mental health and yet Diana didn't commit to her own health and handle her own issues. Diana also gave speeches on anti bullying and yet Diana was a bully to the royal family! No need to write a book about Charles and give interviews about the royal family! She was truly a scheming ingrate! Awful woman 😢😢.
her attitude was so old fashioned; her ideas belonged to a bygone era suitable only for a monarch; she had no conception how modern britain worked; she left a family in emotional and psychological distress
They all were horrible to Diana. But what should of happen ..Diana and Charles should never married..the world would slightly be different today. Charles and Diana had a chance to go their separate ways..way before the Diabolical Sham Marriage. No one love each other..Charles was with Camilla and Diana was with others also. It went to far ..and Even Princess Anne telling her father and mother ..what the truth was well before the over priced numb skull marriage of Charles and Diana. Diana shoukd of ran as fast as she could away from all Royals. History would not been the same and Diana would be alive today! Charles when he told the death of Diana to his sons..As he had bitched about his own Mom..Queen Elizabeth, He did exactly what his Mom would ..Now Boys ..Your Mom has died..Ok..Bye Talk to you Later..Prince Harry said that his Dad offered no type of sympathy or compassion or condolences..and only barely touched Wiiliam for slight second on his leg! While Charles used to belly ache about not even having his Mom around ..to celebrate birthdays.. It was always Nanny’s and other relatives..while Queen Elizabeth and Phillip were for months in Australia or Africa.
Usurp?? Do I know the meaning of the word and what happened?He gave up the throne and so Elizabeth's father had to be King and she was just a child when this happened.
@@Carousel5883 He was forced out by the power structure at the time. England would have done well to ally with their German brothers. He was the rightful King and Elizabeth should have restored him before her crowning. A queen’s job is to make princes and princesses, not share her opinions. In a perfect world she wouldn’t even have opinions!
I believe I understand both sides here to some extent. It's clear that Princess Diana had powerful emotion, and strong desire to express that emotion. This was her way of understanding and relating to the people around her. And it's part of what attracted Charles to her initially as well. Look at Queen Elizabeth II as presented in this program. Did she feel powerful emotion?? Did she experience a strong desire to express it?? I believe she had a different personality. She seemed more concerned with experiencing sensation than feeling emotion. As such, while Diana sought out a response in her relationships. Elizabeth sought out a reaction. In this way, she was able to experience it with you and work from there. Both strategies work, but they are different form one another. Was the cold distance imagined in Princess Diana's head?? To some extent yes. The late Queen, God bless her, seemed to be protective of her emotion. And for good reason. Yet, this does not mean she intentionally carried ill will toward the Princess. They were each other's natural Foil, like Batman and the Joker. And this is what makes there relationship worth paying attention to, as well as honoring. Thank you for sharing the clip.
i honestly think there was essentially a clash of mentalities here: Diana lived as a woman of her time while Elizabeth lived following the example set by her grandmother. she married George V not out of love, but out of duty. then, as time passed, George and Mary fell in love. Elizabeth thought something similar would happen with Charles and Diana, but both of them had a very different outlook on life. neither thought duty was more important than love.that’s it. even with all the goodwill in the world, Elizabeth would have never been able to help Diana, and Diana would have never fit the mold of the perfect Queen Consort the family wanted.
your version of how the Queen felt does not take into account her own marriage to Phillip, which did not seem to be a marriage brough about by duty.
Saying she would’ve never fit the mold as Queen consort is foul fr. Mmm you must think Camilla is a better choice…please🥱
@@brians9508 No, but she stayed with him out of duty. He cheated constantly and even created children with other women.
@@jay_1376 I said the FAMILY’s perspective. And yes, as Queen consort Diana would have hardly been in line with the establishment.
It’s odd then they really pushed for the marriage. You’d think they would have been more diligent in trying to find someone who was up to the task. I suppose they might have attributed any doubts they had to Diana’s youth. And I suppose they expected her to mature as countless royals had had to do in the past. But she didn’t do what they expected. Unfortunately for her, she was caught in a transition time in Britain, where the social pressures were changing. And she got caught up in it. I don’t think anyone handlers the situation particularly well.
I don’t know who thought a 19 year old girl would be a good match for a 30 something prince.
Bingo.
Sadly, the issue of virginity was a very real concern for the future king’s wife, and Diana Spencer met the qualification when very few English women did. She also had the extraordinary bloodlines of her ancestry, making her almost more qualified for the royal role than the family she married into.
They probably thought they could mould her to fit the role and the family. It might've worked, if Charles had loved her and been prepared to be faithful.
They should’ve listened to Margaret and this could have all been avoided…
Exactly I told my sister the same thing
Bingo.
Yep. But she was too wild and real for them.
well Margaret told that in the Crown not in real life
What did Margaret suggest?
Though this is a dramatized and imagined series, I think overall impression some of us get from the real life situations AND these dramatized ones is that the Queen and most of the senior members were privately exasperated by Diana's sensitivity and craving for warmth and compassion and she in turn was openly frustrated by their lack of mindfulness and care (in relationships) and their passivity. It seems only two people have been able to marry comfortably into this kind of family and adjust. One of them was very late in life after a long "courtship" so she was able to really know what marrying the Crown meant giving up and taking on.
I bet this is the most accurate we'll-never-know scene in the entire show.
The Royal Family may have not actively hated Diana, but they didn't help her either. Neglect can be just as bad as abuse.
We have no idea what they did and didn’t do. The Crown is not history. The person who developed the series is an ardent anti-monarchist. Diana likely had serious abandonment issues and that appeared to affect all her relationships, romantic and otherwise. Her family of origin was a mess. At various times she was at odds with her mother, her father, her sister, her brother. This coloured her perception of her situation and the people around her. Marriage to Charles, a man who was in love with someone else, brought out her worst fears of being abandoned. Sure, the monarchy as an institution is pretty hidebound, but Diana and Charles were the authors of their own misfortune. Diana had several affairs and Charles had Camilla. That’s not a very mature way of trying to save a marriage-by either party. People who knew the Queen said that she was nothing if not practical, and accepted the marriage breakup as a necessary evil. We don’t really know what she thought of Diana personally, but Sarah Ferguson always speaks very highly of the Queen, noting that she was able to maintain a friendship even after Sarah’s behaviour caused a bit of a scandal and she was divorced from Andrew. Writers of The Crown know that it makes better television if a villain can be named-in most cases, The Crown’s villain is the monarchy.
@@catherinethibeault6636 I don't think they're an ardent anti-monarchist. They have to breathe life into the story somehow. A certain amount of poetic license should be allowed.
There seemed to be a clash of communication style between these specific individuals. At least, that is what the show is depicting for us. And the argument they form here seems well-formulated to me.
Though the point of how we do not possess all of the facts is a valid one too.
I think Diana was her own worst enemy much of the time. I have grown tired of the constant adoration and borderline mythology of this very flawed woman. Diana seemed to be a bit self-absorbed and spiraling due to her own mental health issues. She both wanted the sympathy and adoration of the public, but also claimed to have wanted privacy (when it suited her). I think Harry has much of her same temperament whereas William is more like his father.
I felt bad for Diana I grew up watching her on the news ones in awhile but she did have a lot of issues herself I mean in the crown princess Ann said it so well when she said Dianna is young for her years and Charles is old for his years. Plus watching the crown the only time they had a warning about intense situations is when Dianna was on the topic.
And then how can you know what Queen Elizabeth II thought about Lady Diana? And the story surrounding Lady Diana's death says that the late Queen Elizabeth II, only under pressure from the people, made a public statement! And on the day of Lady Diana's funeral, the late Queen Elizabeth II did the unthinkable, bowing her head as the coffin passed by, as a sign of respect. As a Brit, I think about how much of a sacrifice this simple gesture must have been!
She says she always defended her. Did the Queen ever ask to meet with her and tell her any of these things? No - they were "busy."
It's a dramatization. Not a real life documentary. We don't know what conversations Dianna and the Queen had.
I still think Charles and his adultery are largely to blame for the divorce
The break down of Prince of Wales's marriage was caused by many factors the press, the love triangle, their age gap plus the fact Charles and Diana were at their core very different people.
What about her adultery?
@@fortranwarrior8716 since when do 2 wrongs make aright
What about Diana's adultery. Do you think that played a role?
@@TJ1920 they don't. But you seem to want to just blame Charles. Diana wasn't an innocent party in this. So either they are both to blame or neither are to blame, but to blame only one person is ridiculous.
Like Diana said, there were three people in that marriage
what does that mean? whose marriage 3 people? camillas marriage?
@@kerty1111Camilla was the eponymous third wife in that anecdote.
The Crown is not a documentary.
That's what I can't understand -- that so many people think it is.
@@evalynnchristiansen9430 Nobody thinks it is... we just can talk about people in a show as if they are real. Have you never heard people talk about soap opera characters? And these characters are even easier, as they are BASED ON real people, and we know that the writers had access to all of the same background as we can find...
I totally understand both perspectives.
You being a member of the Royal Family, you have that perspective.
@@andyiswonderfulwe as humans, have the ability to *imagine* the experience of others. It’s called empathy.
Me too.
i understand the queens as selfsish and negligent
@@oldaccount6152 because you are needy.
Dianna was not perfect by any means; but she did not deserve what she received. She just wanted love. That's a dangerous emotion for the Royals.
I believe that love is difficult for the Royals. But not necessarily dangerous. I will say that the depth and complexity is greater in scope for their personal situation than is typical for most of us outside of that system.
Spelt D-I-A-N-A
If you want a relationship of love, you don’t marry into an Institution, you marry a guy without much money or responsibilities and you hope for the best.
She screwed up 🤷🏻♂️. One does feel bad for her because she certainly had an awful time, but she brought it onto herself in a way. It wasn’t all the Royal Family’s fault…
@@themarquis336 If you want a relationship of love, then you build one up slowly over time with the right person. Institution or no institution.
Your discrimination is not only absurd and nonsensical, it's unnecessary. When you look at people, do you not see them??? Only their socioeconomic class??
I hesitate to ask as to your personal situation. My best guess is that whatever it is, you "brought it on yourself"...and you clearly played a non-insignificant role in that.
@@callmeswivelhips8229 That’s not how it works and Diana is the sorry proof of that 🤣
Good day, buddy.
Elizabeth Debicki resemblance and mannerism is so uncanny I thought shes Diana at first.
She even sounds like Diana
It’s fiction. This conversation never happened. The writer and producers invented it as so much else. I know several people portrayed in The Crown - none royal, just officials or London people - none of them were approached or asked about anything and they didn’t recognise anything. They were baffled by it. When I saw them portrayed I couldn’t recognise them, I don’t mean physically, I mean as characters, a strong decisive guy portrayed as weak and hesitant. I didn’t know the late Queen but friends who did said Claire Foy nailed the young Queen but the two later portrayals were the Queen out of the newspapers, nothing like the real woman behind the scenes.
We just watched the episode about Jackie Kennedy and I researched it after and was shocked to find how little of the episode was true. Really important facts were just changed throughout the whole thing. This series is beautifully produced and you get the sense of being there in history, but that sense should be questioned thoroughly. Much liberty has been taken with actual history.
No one will ever really know what was said behind closed doors. The writers do need to give us something. And that's what they've done.
Thank you for sharing this, it is informative. Though I take it with a grain of salt. I believe that the guestimation is, to some extent, worth while.
I admit, transparency on that is worthwhile, too. I'd rather not get carried away, and believe I _know_ these characters as well as the show seems to believe it does.
Either way, the show does a good job and examining what is worthwhile to examine. And to share with us the how and why of these life events after the fact.
No point trying to tell this Diana fanclub that; The Crown has completely written history for them and they swallow it hook line and sinker. Diana = Good. Queen = Bad.
The crown only became based on fiction when it turned out Season 5 and 6 were based on Harry's insider information. He was a kid through most, god knows what's real outside of the documented stuff.
The CROWN always comes first !
I'm sorry but the Queen said that like her 48 years were something to be proud of. Diana was married to a man that didn't love her and always loved someone else and they expected her to just accept that to save their reputation😳 Diana was right he isn't fit to be King. His uncle had to abdicate the thrown because he couldn't have his divorced woman and yet he is king and also a divorced man himself married to a divorced woman who happily played third wheel and publicly at that smh what an embarrassment to say the most. The nerve of her making Diana feel bad for speaking her truth.
Well, he is the King, unfit or not. And so far, he did nothing too extravagant. It's just business as usual as it was with Elizabeth II.
@@Xerxes2005 he wasn't the king at this point and the facts are the facts. The Queen bent the rules for her immature children turned adults and that's why they have all embarrassed her with their actions. Talking about her 48th anniversary like she had a faithful husband the first smh miss me with that
@@tasiamurbano7283 Then why use the present tense?
@@Xerxes2005 because the situation is the same in both time frames he was unfit then and now
@@tasiamurbano7283 I like how you contradict yourself. Now, why is he unfit now? Why did he do since his mommy died that makes you believe he should not be King?
IF only she told her that BEFORE!!!!!!
Diana had the announcement of the interview ho out on the then prince of Wales birthday and to air on the queen and prince Philips anniversary...oh the princesses claws were out...
We don't know whether this scene accurately portrays the truth, but if it does what the queen is doing here is gaslighting Diana. The popular stance is that the queen never put her foot wrong. Well, she did, numerous times especially toward the decay of Charles and Diana's marriage.
I don't see what Queen Elizabeth should have done. No doubt she was talking advice from her coterie.
I'm sure you have that on great authority
We do know it does not portray the truth - it is fiction!
The Queen in this scene is gaslighting the shit out of Diana. She can't admit that her actions or inaction did anything to inform Diana's outcomes and she heaps all the blame on her. If it's so important to keep these conversations, "in house" then shouldn't it be a priority to make time for these conversations in their "busy" schedules? Diana, the character in this movie, could not win with that family.
good job it's fiction then
right, why should Diana just let this all be pushed under the royal palace rug and not let the world know
This is not a factual event. These are actors on a TV show.
Are you kidding? I thought they put "hidden cameras" in the castle!
@@PhilAlumb Don't worry. Some people offended by the Diana seasons like to clear that up. 😇
Correct. I don't think it purports to be factual. I think it's more of an interpretation of existing facts and presenting what could have probably been happening.
They all were too busy to concern themselves with Diana's state of mind. And they call themselves a family. The Queen also declined to assist Diana with regard to Charles's infidelity.
what was she supposed to do?
How do you know?
I think whoever married Charles was always going to be in an impossible position. He never really got over Camilla and The Crown demanded he marry and produce an heir. Whether Diana’s psychological problems were caused by the stress she was under or genetic and would have always appeared, who knows. But she was a modern woman. 500 years ago, she would have been silently miserable her whole life ,or beheaded for daring to be a woman with an opinion.
I think a woman who knew the score and who didn't care, who was his friend and the mother of his children, would've been fine. Any number of women wouldn't have cared he wasn't in love with them, he was prepared to treat them with a respectful distance. Diana was too young to figure out that was what was going to happen; she wanted love. They had a huge miscommunication on what their marriage meant; Charles wanted a future queen and princess of wales, Diana wanted a husband. unluckily they only figured this out after they had already gotten married.
Dogs trying to understand cats.
This actress became Diana. She would have been so good in Spencer.
"Imagination", of course...
...they were all having illicit relationships, so Diana explaining her actions to someone who couldn't give a rat's arse is sorrowful 😟
I have a hard time believing this would be an accurate portrayal of how this conversation would have gone down. But maybe. I guess we will never know.
Not to mention that she was taken at a young age and expected to be like the others in the royal family. Let's not forget that Charles had Diana's sister first, and then he saw Diana. The queen of all things should have stopped Charles from seeing Camella and knew it was adultery. In all that went on and continues to go on, can they not see that Harry wanted peace and peace for his wife? It seemed that everyone, including the queen, saw someone while in marriage and the duke as well with the holywood stars, and who knows who else? Let's remember that the duke was worried for his son to be king for a top job.
Seriously, what does this matter now? On September 8th, 2 years passed since the death of Queen Elizabeth II, on August 31st, 27 years passed since the death of Lady Diana, why not let them rest in eternal sleep.
I know this is a drama, but no doubt a conversation such as this happened...its a shame Diana, Princess of Wales, could not see the damage done by that interview.
I think what stands out to me most is that these two women are at each other, each tearing down the other for what they didn't get. Diana wanted support and Elizabeth wanted obedience. But it was Charles that made this mess. It was his choices again and again that put both of these women into situations where they had little to no control against him. He was a 1st prince, born to be a king. There were plenty of things in his life he had no control over. Marriage was one of them. And instead of finding a way to deal with it or make it manageable, he whined and grumbled and cheated while also finding a way to blame everyone else. Yes Elizabeth forced him. Yes Diana wouldn't deal with a husband who didn't love her and cherish her. But I still don't understand how this became a battle of wills between these ladies instead of what it should have been.... calling Charles out for all his bad decisions. But unfortunately because he was to be king, he couldn't be to blame, he literally could not be in the wrong. And yes Elizabeth was very busy and couldn't spend all her time worrying about how Diana felt about things. I do agree that things should have been resolved in the family and not in public, but obviously Diana felt like that was never going to be a possibility. SMH, I was hoping that Diana's sons would learn from all this and fix things. But it looks like William simply wants to be king, whatever that means, and Harry just wants to be lazy, rich and famous.
Blaming the victim. Gaslighting.
how was she a victim?
@@brians9508 diana was not a victim? you may also say Diana committed suicide lmao
She made herself a victim. She could have done thing differently.
@@inessabanovic8491 nobody makes themselves a victim, either you are a victim or not. Clearly she was one
@@oldaccount6152 actually you do make yourself a victim. It is in the mindset. No one can make you be anything.
This is classic Gaslighting and abusing Dianna’s vulnerability.
Vulnerability?
@@fortranwarrior8716 Yes, she was already an outcast and emotionally fragile.
@@roddyontheroad7370 An outcast from what? She definitely had mental health issues, and I think she would have been better served by a doctor than a journalist.
@@fortranwarrior8716She was treated by a number of doctors throughout the years. Some even employed by her husband’s household, reporting everything back to him.
brings me to tears almost; very touching; she did love her daughter in law
If you can’t spare half an hour to listen to your own family and take care of them. You’re not going to take time to really care about the citizens. And if you defended her, you would’ve stopped Camilla from being around the royal family. So I call bullshit!
Remember The Crown was Fiction.
Heartbreaking
The media is the true monarch in England.
Of course Charles has his parts in the breakdown of the marriage. But Diana did some bad choices in the 90s. The Andrew Morton book was only the beginning, but still discreet - compared to the interview in 1995 - which she never should have given. Plus she surrounded herself by the very much wrong people, which eventually led to her tragic death.
The Bashir interview was gotten under false pretenses. Shame on Bashir for taking advantage of a distressed woman.
Diana's marriage to Charles was a TOTAL mismatch and a train wreck. The Royals lived in 1920's mentality, while Diana lived in the present. She was too young and wanted to marry her prince charming. Charles was not that, and was preoccupied with Camilla. The only good things that came out of that marriage was: Diana became a beloved princess to British subjects, Princes William and Harry were born. William, the Crown Prince, is a huge gift to England as is Princess Catherine.
Elizabeth was awful. She forced them to marry because she thought it was best for the image of the crown, then when that failed, she blamed the two of them for not "putting up and shutting up"-- they ignored both Diana and Charles. They both suffered horribly. Diana had no support for her mental health. The Queen refused to take any responsibility for the fact that HER choices were at fault for the Charles x Diana situation, and the simple fact that they wouldn't "suffer in silence" in somehow THEIR fault. Yes, they were too busy to think about how to make her life "miserable" so it might not have been malicious, but they were also too busy to HELP and did not take any accountability for that fact. Not once did they slow down from royal duties and say "this is a personal emergency we must take time to address"... The Queen was so dedicated to "the role" that she forgot how to be human and as a result completely failed these people, including Diana. I'm so sick of how she blames everyone, her schedule, her business, their inability to just "put up and shut up" instead of actually reflecting that SHE made a poor choice by allowing the marriage and is now dealing with the consequences.
You do know this is a work of fiction, don't you?
Never complain never explain.Diana had to do the interview to get the divorce because the queen refused to grant them .As soon as that interview happened,the got a divorcedl
The height difference between Imelda and Elizabeth makes this scene comical. I thought I was watching French and Saunders.
Diana had humanity somethings you cannot put a price on, imagine how popular the Royal family would have been with charles and Diana at the helm Harry would have never walked away
It's not genuine affection though is it? Even when she's telling Diana she defends her to others because she loves her as a member of the family the way she's talking to her it's like she's having a go at her 😢
It's so hostile and cold 😢
They are a hostile cold bunch.
also her words are the height of gaslighting
I expect all the hate, but... The Queen is right. Expressing your frustration, and grief, and unsatisfaction is natural and just. But to wash all the dirty laundry in public to claim sympathy and to shine the light on your own, putting your children into impossible position of dealing with the consequences cannot be right. Diana (the character in the series, mind) could have it all but she burned the last bridge by turning the Queen against her with this interview.
(We don't know what happened and was talked of in real life. I speak about a scene in a fictionalized tv series. )
In 1996 DAYton (DAY = is DAN) peace agreement was signed, and someone should investigate correlation with Danmark's princess Isabella's DNA & prince Christian's DNA !!!
Those Crown "COUSINS" are taking eachOther OUT ?
After hearing the podcast in the old book " The housekeepers dairy" where a close staff member wrote. I was shocked at how disturbed and manipulative Diana was. I no longer feel the same about her.
@@gracesanity6314 you know what they say, there is his version her version and the truth, just like this row with Harry the royals are not allowed to speak out ?
I heard "The Housekeepers Diary" is a very insightful book ! Diana in public was very different from the private Diana 😕😕. She was a rageaholic behind the palace doors 🤢🤢 and probably this is the Diana that the queen had to unfortunately deal with. I'm wondering if Diana wanted to make up her own rules but it just doesn't work that way!
Diana needed to clear the air with her feelings and embarrassment w regards to Charles and Camilla. Though the queen had valid points as well.
Had I been in Diana's shoes, I would have corrected the Queen on one point. "I was married to Charles, but he never made me his wife. He had Camilla for that, and with the blessing of this family."
she did it in secret
2:51 Whether this (or anything similar) was said in real life or not & I doubt Elizabeth herself even realised what she was doing, but this is gaslighting in its plainest form. To tell Diana that the way the Royal family made her feel was all misinterpreted & her fault for perceiving it that way while painting herself as a noble person who defended her is just her denying the hurt she dealt Diana & acknowledging that the way Royals handle emotional affairs is detrimental & destructive & ALWAYS has been - look no further than Harry & Meghan who were affected in almost the exact same way decades later & left as a result.
Elizabeth had her way of dealing with things when it came to family & Diana had hers, but it’s when one challenges the other that you see which side ultimately prevails.
So what was the point of the interview other than to get attention and achieve revenge?
History is repeating itself.
The statement about wanting her to be yhe nsxt Queen hits hard now with Disna gone and Camile as Queen 😭
The queen is being genuine. Diana wanted it both ways and knew Charles didn't love her. Couldn't help but be angry over it.
I know this conversation is fiction for this TV drama, but do you guys think a conversation like this between Diana and the Queen really happened? And if so, would it have been like this or what do you guys think, considering we will probably never really know?
never would have happened - at least not like that.
Would've never happened...they sucked her up to be bred like she was livestock....horrible people
Can't help but snicker at the sight of "Diana" towering like a giantess over everyone.
Queen is kinda gaslighting Diana here. It's like she's saying we have all lived this misery, why do you think you'll be spared? Diana was facing the public humiliation from her husband. How was she supposed to carry on with such relationship just because of duty? Also, why didn't royals work actively to cast Camilla aside? She was shamelessly pursuing a married man.
Calling her crazy isnt fair. They really just hated her. Total lies.
Its always about the crown not her.
You do realise this is fiction loosely based on a few facts.
Look I’m usually on the Queen’s side in this series but not this time. It’s easy to see the royal family post 1997 as serving the nation without complaint… but before 1997 that was not the impression they gave. They were an insular, aristocratic family that didn’t want people knowing what they were doing, didn’t like paying taxes, didn’t want people taking their boats or castles… Diana changed this dynamic. And before it changed she was the accesible face of that family. It’s very easy to forget.
The Queen defended her, but she never listened to her. There is a difference in listening, and then having someone's back. I've had people listen to me (or who I thought listened to me), but then they didn't have my back. Both are important. How was Diana suppose to know the Queen backer her if she was always turned away when she requested a private audience.
Great speech by her majesty. Spot on.
diana was a lovely person but to be honest she wasnt strong enough to be a queen too emotional queen elizabeth was unemotional emotions would get in the way of ruling with a steady head.
Golly usurping the queens wedding anniversary. To the tower!
The Queen also thought Megan Markel was evil.
And she was right.
@evalynnchristiansen9430 depends on what you are reading. If you are reading British tabloids, she most certainly is evil. And if you are reading American tabloids and watching Harry's interviews, then she is a saint and Camilla and the British press are the villain.
It's sad to see that in all parts of the world, it's usually the daughter in law who gets blamed for the son drifting away. We don't appreciate the fact that maybe the son needed someone to embrace too, maybe he was lonesome before the wife came along. Men are less likely to open up to family after reaching adolescence. Romantic love gives them the opportunity to do that, and sometimes to others, that seems alienating.
Please get on with your lives and stop hating someone you don't know. Harry is a big boy. No one can dictate terms to an adult. They have brains of their own.
And ripe old Charles, in Harry's words, loved her.
They think of themselves as superior to everyone. Puke.
Yeah, this was a 101 in gas lighting first.She's saying such conversation should be had in private.But then she's explaining how they're all too busy to have such a conversation w t f...
diana was too unstable. she needed medical help
No she needed to get the hell out of dodge but she was killed before she could escape
its weird how she is making Diana feel guilty, your son can fuck around and abuse her and yet she should shut up. People always ask queen about gossip on Diana but just because she has nothing to say about it doesn't mean Diana must do the same
Did you see King Up Chuckie the Turd at the table swatting sway the staff? The queen should hace naned William as the successor
Not legally allowed
@@garethpritchard5458 test that.
"busy", yeah right ....
DIANA WAS HOPELESS ! THANK GOD SHE NEVER BECAME QUEEN !
how so ? care to explain?
The queen and the family never accepted diana as she resisted to be cheated and silenced like the queen who tolerated the cheating of her husband. She had dignity and self respect that the queen lacked with her husband who was openly in affairs.
Her majesty and his royal highness made their marriage work as they were told be ideal as per their time...Diana was a women of the modern times with her own mind and self respect and refused to be in an open marriage that her husband wanted.
so Diana was not awful or hopeless...just a prisoner in a cold family. She broke out and had to undergo a lot to break free from the torture of her failed marriage who by the way was not meant to be because charles loved camilla and not her. Had her family not forced him to marry Diana things would have been a lot different
Imagine mocking a dead woman…
What is this shit?!
Major gaslighting by the Queen.
The queen was so wrong and what she said. She was making excuses.
The Queen was right. Diana was a selfish child who only thought of herself, not if her duty to the Queen, to her husband, the future King, nor to the sons she supposedly adored.
@@ClintGreen-nv3xr Very well said! I'm guessing that Diana was emotionally unstable and callous. The royal family began to see that Diana was mentally ill and DID have therapists to help Diana but she gave up on therapy. Odd, how Diana gave speeches on mental health and yet Diana didn't commit to her own health and handle her own issues. Diana also gave speeches on anti bullying and yet Diana was a bully to the royal family! No need to write a book about Charles and give interviews about the royal family! She was truly a scheming ingrate! Awful woman 😢😢.
THE QUEEN IS RESPONSIBLE FOR DIANA'S DEATH PURE AND SIMPLE
While her son was cheating on Diana.... Sorry. I love the Queen, but this is where she went very very wrong.
her attitude was so old fashioned; her ideas belonged to a bygone era suitable only for a monarch; she had no conception how modern britain worked; she left a family in emotional and psychological distress
What a lot of bollocks
They all were horrible to Diana. But what should of happen ..Diana and Charles should never married..the world would slightly be different today. Charles and Diana had a chance to go their separate ways..way before the Diabolical Sham Marriage. No one love each other..Charles was with Camilla and Diana was with others also. It went to far ..and Even Princess Anne telling her father and mother ..what the truth was well before the over priced numb skull marriage of Charles and Diana.
Diana shoukd of ran as fast as she could away from all Royals. History would not been the same and Diana would be alive today! Charles when he told the death of Diana to his sons..As he had bitched about his own Mom..Queen Elizabeth, He did exactly what his Mom would ..Now Boys ..Your Mom has died..Ok..Bye Talk to you Later..Prince Harry said that his Dad offered no type of sympathy or compassion or condolences..and only barely touched Wiiliam for slight second on his leg! While Charles used to belly ache about not even having his Mom around ..to celebrate birthdays.. It was always Nanny’s and other relatives..while Queen Elizabeth and Phillip were for months in Australia or Africa.
Diania and Harry are the best things out of that fanily since the king's speech
A ridiculous tiny woman masquerading as the true monarch after usurping her uncle’s throne.
Usurp?? Do I know the meaning of the word and what happened?He gave up the throne and so Elizabeth's father had to be King and she was just a child when this happened.
@@Carousel5883 He was forced out by the power structure at the time. England would have done well to ally with their German brothers. He was the rightful King and Elizabeth should have restored him before her crowning. A queen’s job is to make princes and princesses, not share her opinions. In a perfect world she wouldn’t even have opinions!
I believe I understand both sides here to some extent. It's clear that Princess Diana had powerful emotion, and strong desire to express that emotion. This was her way of understanding and relating to the people around her. And it's part of what attracted Charles to her initially as well.
Look at Queen Elizabeth II as presented in this program. Did she feel powerful emotion?? Did she experience a strong desire to express it?? I believe she had a different personality. She seemed more concerned with experiencing sensation than feeling emotion.
As such, while Diana sought out a response in her relationships. Elizabeth sought out a reaction. In this way, she was able to experience it with you and work from there. Both strategies work, but they are different form one another.
Was the cold distance imagined in Princess Diana's head?? To some extent yes. The late Queen, God bless her, seemed to be protective of her emotion. And for good reason. Yet, this does not mean she intentionally carried ill will toward the Princess.
They were each other's natural Foil, like Batman and the Joker. And this is what makes there relationship worth paying attention to, as well as honoring. Thank you for sharing the clip.