The Effects of Rod Action on CASTING DISTANCE
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- Part I: • ROD ACTION vs. UA-cam...
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This channel continues to be a wealth of knowledge for newer anglers like myself who doesn't know much past the basics. Love these kinds of vids, please keep them coming!!
I'm afraid i don't have anything else right now .. : ) To tell u the truth i did this video just because it has been bothering me for so long to listen all this crap about xfast rods..
@@ifishcatfish You just do what you do man, I always learn something.
Tip: You won't get the exact action of the rod's design if you do not use the correct grams on the rod if you overload it. The way I do it is take the total grams and add it up and divide by two. That is the sweet spot of the rod's action. You can also (with some rods) go a few grams more from the sweet spot but it will change from rod to rod due to materials, length, etc.
yes
I love my Presso for fighting fish but you're right about finding the sweet spot. Thanks for taking the time to deep dive into the how's and why's of rod actions 👍
It feels so much better to get this off my chest. Been eating me for a long time : )
In Holland we had our own ultra light guru, Jan Schreiner. Putting his money where his mouth is he wrote dozens of books and even build his own rods. His philosophy was rod, line and casting weight should be in harmony. Undermining this harmony would make even the most expensive combo useless. I think you two would have got along very well. 😊
Thank you
Exactly the video ive been looking for a very long time. Thank you Victor
had to get it off my chest
I approve this message, again.
I think a great way to show how the rod loads under a cast is slow motion video from the side. It's amazing how much rods bend when casting. I would love to see a video like that comparing rods and jig weights.
I would love to see that too!
In the Netherlands the ambassador of ultralight fishing Jan Schreiner started with building parabolic rods for light line classes some sixty years ago and I use some this rods still today. At the time he was a real innovator and totally out of sinc with the rest of the rodbuilders and fishing community. Your posts are very insightfull and completely in line with his idea s about the effectiveness and fun of moderate rods compared to heavier and / or extra fast rods that are only meant to sweep the fish in the boat. Hope to see more of your content and thight light lines.
I'm 60 years too late then : )
The green rod has more energy to transfer to the tip I believe. Before watching to the end i will speculate the 1g os better on the Soare XR style action because 1g is not enough to get the parabolic bend on the Air AGS
Excellent video. Never thought about it this way before.
thank you mr Kevin
I love parabolic action rods, they are particularly popular with eging (squid) rods where you dont want to pull the barbs from the tenticles.
Another video idea, comapring the manufacturers recommended casting weight vs the action of the rod. Plenty of rods are rsted under 1g but at parabolic in nature
Great explanation. When I cast my fast action, it feels more fluid and natural. Casting the Xfast feels a little awkward, and I have to shorten my motion for accuracy. Plus the fast action is a better fish fighting experience.
Well said! By the way i myself like fast action for twitching, to make the tip as sharp as possible. It is the extrafast actions that drive me nuts.
It’s my first and last extrafast rod.
@@RhodeRed-xm5yx Don't feel bad. I have the Soare XR, and it is so beautiful, i don't want to sell it until i find something just as pretty but with more parabolic action
Thank for the information on rod actions. Just wish they were more standard between manufacturers. And lure ratings of rods.
well, you wish too much : ) They are not even standard inside the same manufacturer. I find Shimano's labels all over the place..
@@ifishcatfish definitely, even brands from old to next generation. Definitely have to put them in the hand first
I'm so happy there are some adequate people here. I hate those extra stiff rods too. You've told us just half of the story here. What about playing a fish? Those stiff sticks lose a lot of fish and deliver no pleasure form playing a fish. Let's not forget about lure control. If your tip to soft, not all lures will be jerked properly.
I really don't understand why these things are so popular these days.
EXACTLY! I thought about it but i would have to repeat the same arguments again, show the same charts again, and explain again that u ONLY fight the fish with the tip, instead of with the whole rod
I still like fiberglass. I had a Cabela’s e glass. Crank bait rod many years ago and I liked how it bent. I gave it to a guy I worked with who needed a hand up.
Thanks for sharing. It's nice to know some of the science behind it
Thank you. By the way, fyi, stiffness is the force required to maintain a unitary deformation, and flexibility is the amount of deformation due to a unitary force. They are inverse.
In the video maybe the term flexibility would be more appropriate since we are evaluating deformation and not forces.
That sounds about right in perfect conditions
By your own explanation, it sounds to me that i used them correctly : ). I admit i have no idea what the technical definition is, but you are saying that stiff is the opposite of flexible, and this is exactly what i meant.
It’s a very good video
Interesting video Victor, thank you! Just a suggestion, since you have those 2 rods described in the video, perhaps you could show us the cast distance between the 2 using 1 gram and 3 gram lures to demonstrate what you are saying?!
How can u show this? Even if you cast and measure, someone can always say you sabotaged the XF rod on purpose. Or they can say they when they cast they see something else. There is no way to do this convincingly because everyone casts differently and even the same person with the same rod cannot make two identical casts. I think it is better for people to understand the principle and the physics, and make their own decision. I don't really care to convince anyone. I am showing them how things work, according to the level of my understanding, and people are free to make their own decision, and if they still want to fish with XF, i have no problem with that at all, and i am certainly not going to argue with anyone who doesn't agree with this.
Oh hey Victor I bought my first parabolic action rod in 1974. It was called a Berkley Parametric. It was a 7' fiberglass with the best spinning reel of the day a (ABU) Zebco Cardinal 4. Apparently they are still made. I don't know where but are sold out if Japan for over $500us or 12 million Canadian.
where do u get your exchange rates, Bobby?
@@ifishcatfish fishing gear in Canada has almost doubled in lots of gear in the last 3years. Good thing I stocked up 3 years ago.
Nice video, no need to say more to understand the function of a rod!
Here in Holland everybody is focused on using pe lines do to sensitive, I noticed you are using mostly fluorocarbon, maybe its nice to make a video about the pro’s and the cons of fluorocarbon and pe line?
Keep up the good work!
Maybe next year. You don't want to come across too provocative and I can tell you I don't like fishing with braid. It feels harsh and cruel, i am ripping holes in the mouth of the fish and i just personally don't enjoy that. But i will admit that on paper braid is the best: the most sensitive and the strongest per diameter. I just don't enjoy playing the fish with it.
We need more people subscribe this channel . .. . I love you man
I appreciate that very much.
Would love to see where “slow” fits into these actions, maybe a topic for another video? Moderate vs slow?
The green rod in the video is perfectly SLOW. Max Slow = Max Parabolic, and that green rod was MAX Parabolic. I just don't use Slow so not to confuse people even more
Perfect. That aligns with what I thought I knew about these. I was under the impression they were pretty much synonymous but wasn’t sure after watching this and the last video. Now I know. Thanks.
I have a few ocean jigs sticks and bait rods older than me that have actions like these two rods. One of my favorites is a 8.5ft for throwing metal jigs and I've felt it bend near the reel seat before.
Good video and universal fishing knowledge.
Thank you for dropping a comment!
Can you make a video comparing these species in terms of optimal bait or fishing technique?
I don't see how the bait makes a difference. As long as you are loading the rod with the right WEIGHT, you can use whatever bait you want. I also don't want to get involved with techniques too much. I don't like to tell people what they should use. I want people to understand how the two actions WORK. Then if you still want extra fast action, at least you are making an informed decision, and there is nothing wrong with doing what you want to do.
Great job
thank you sir!
I broke a 9' 4-20 lbs GX2 ugly stik tip because ugly stik's never ever puts the lure weights on their rods. The only thing ever list on an ugly stik is action & power combined into one, with line weight listed next to it. Here I am throwing a 2oz sinker on it when it's max rating was 5/8th of an oz. I had to find that out by looking online for it. Needless to say, the tip eventually broke. I went to pull it out my car one day seen something sticking out the top tip pulled it off & the whole top tip collapsed after I did it.
well... that's worth sending a letter to them, i'd say..
Спасибо! смотрел видео "960lbs crossbow vs 150lbs crossbow - TESTED!" а потом ваше... а как не странно, они похожи) Сам замети, что "палки" которые хорошо кидают, у них же - хуже чувствительность! и при вываживании рыбы, хуже контроль рыбы. Проверял 1г. на палке 0.6-5г. (карбон Т40) и палке 1-10гр (карбон Т30), кидает лучше первая, а вываживание и чувствительность - вторая! Написал производителю палки (CF) ответили - что-то странное, наверное разные условия тестирования, но условия одинаковые!)
yes, the rod is a crossbow in a way, if u think about it..
I fish for catfish with my Ugly Stik Tiger Elite. Perfect parabolic bend with 3 oz weight. Casts a mile with Shimano Miravel loaded with 30 lb braid. Not ultra light, but fun.
Tough as nails! I just wish they produced them in 7’6”
@@hikenmikes8262 mine is 8'.
got a few myself, from the old catfish days. I still keep them..
thanks for another great video.
So is this right, as a matter of rod physics: imagine two rods are rated for 1-3 oz lures. One is a Moderate action, the other is Fast action. Assuming all else (rod length, lure type, line, technique, etc.) is equal, the Moderate will cast a 2 oz lure (the “sweet spot” for both rods) farther? The theory being that the Moderate is getting the whole rod into that cast, whereas the Fast can only get ~1/3 of it into the cast? Is that right? Thanks for these videos.
That is right. It is even more right with Extra Fast, where no part of the rod ever loads properly. Regular Fast action can offer some good tradeoffs, where u want very sharp tip and maximum distance is not so important. I myself have quite a few fast action rods and i like them for jigging. XF is good for nothing though
@@ifishcatfish thank you! Love how in-depth your videos are. If I could ask a short follow-up question: would it change your answer if, in the hypothetical, the Fast was a Medium-Heavy power and the Moderate was a Medium? I assume that, if they have the same lure rating, that means that the same weight will optimally load each rod-even if they’re different powers. Is that right? Put simply: would a MM rated 1-3 cast a 2 oz lure farther than a MHF 1-3? (If you can’t tell, I’m trying to decide between two rods.)
well thats not possible... how can be different power but throw exactly the same weight? Thats the definition of power..
The lure ratings/casting weights on UL rods should be might tighter in my opinion. O have a rod that os rsted .8 to 5g....it really is more like 2-4 optimally
One is optimal, and one is the limit.
A great example of a parabolic rod in my collection of builds is a German blank
It’s a sport ex 525. I had it re sanded and triple bound with alcanite guides. But I don’t get the same casting distance as other rods
But then again. Folks need to remember it’s a different technique required for casting also
Not. Jmpo. I have moderate fast and super fast action rods. I don’t need extra time for casting and thus moderate rods don’t feel great for me. I prefer fast action rods as I always outcast all my mates. We fish heavy 15-25 kg rods with 8 oz leads and large baits for large fish in strong winds. The sportex simply won’t work for this style fishing
Find the action that works for your style and conditions of fishing
i don't know how to connect anything of what you said with my video
Which will cast better?
It depends on many factors, including some not discussed here. Drawing exaggerated graphs and saying, "it just doesn't look right" is not a good argument! Declaring that consistent bend across the entire blank is "proper' is not a good argument, and a gross oversimplification. There's a lot that goes into casting performance, including the human factor (you alluded to this) and material selection. And a person that heavily overloads their rods should be far more concerned about blank material than action.
There are tradeoffs. If fishing were only about casting distance, everybody would be using 15' competition rods with heavy weights to fling their tackle hundreds of yards, right?
Sensitivity: Extra-fast
Rod weight: Parabolic
Instant pulling power: Extra-fast
Not pulling the lure out of the mouth of a fish: Parabolic
Pulling fish from heavy cover: Extra-fast
Trolling: Parabolic
Casting accuracy: Extra-fast
Flexibility in lure weight selection: Parabolic
Live bait: Parabolic
But look at that graph! Extra-fast must be BAAAAAD, because that tip is bent WAAAAAAY TOO FAR! Right? WRONG. That graph just means the wrong tool is being used.
Everything is this post is wrong, everything u mentioned. Your entire first paragraph is not even on the point, as the title of the video says ACTION. This means, if you are intelligent enough for simple debate, that if everything else was the same, one action would cast farther than another. Of course there is human factor and material and all that but that is something people already know. It is the effect of action that people like YOU are wrong about. Everything you listed in your recommendations is wrong, except your trolling recommendation. Everything else is wrong, and precisely the reason for this video.
on some basic level you have to understand this: if you want the rod to catapult the bait and assist you, you need to LOAD, or COMPRESS the blank! If the black is not compressed - no catapult. If the blank is over-compressed, still no catapult. This is NOT UP TO YOUR OPINION! THis is PHYSICS! Once you make peace with this fact of physics, open my graphs again, and think of how much catapult can you get from each line.
I am removing this post because it is very long and emotional but didn't say anything at all. I make very simple points, that i expect people to address. Not just tell me things are complicated and i don't understand them. I love debate, but you have to address my points, not yap your mouth. Here is what i can offer you: set up a debate on this topic with someone and invite me. It has to be a youtube channel larger than mine or a manufacturer ... just something worth my time. I am not gona debate every heckler.. So set up a debate, and u can make your points and embarass me.
@@ifishcatfish Want a fight? You ain't getting one. Want to claim you're right because I won't debate you? Whatever man, you already lost the "debate" in my eyes when you demonstrated unwillingness and / or inability to argue in good faith.
I did you the "favor" of pointing out that the information you presented within your video is deeply flawed, but that doesn't obligate me to waste hours pointing out every way in which you're wrong, nor does it obligate me to put up with temper tantrums. I provided sufficient information to get you started down the path of self-correction; it's up to you to walk it. It'll be sad if you never swallow your pride, reach out, and collect relevant information and analysis freely available from people with more experience, knowledge, and skill than you have, and you'll never know with certainty that ol' Warped was truly wrong.
You don't need to debate me. You're free to reject what I've posted. Hate me forever if you like. Keep right on thinking that I must be unintelligent because there's no way you could be wrong. Whoop-de-do, don't bother me none. You, however - even a fool can see you have thin skin. So why did you post a video contradicting majority opinion? Did you think you wouldn't be challenged? Did you believe your claims to be so bullet-proof and obvious that no sane person would dare call you out? Did you not realize just how sensitive you are to being told you're wrong?
IT IS YOUR DUTY TO PERFORM DUE DILIGENCE BEFORE PUBLISHING INFORMATION AS FACT, AND CORRECT THAT INFORMATION WHEN YOU DISCOVER IT TO BE IN ERROR.
An opinion about the action between those two rods will be nice ( kind of fast or moderate fast tubular tip rod like Yamaga )
i didn't understand this. The entire video i talk about the action. And the previous video was about the action. What do u mean an opinion about the action?
Hi Victor! Awesome video as always, I finally think I have a proper grasp on rod action vs. casting distance. I've been watching your videos nonstop for the past few months as I get into ultralight fishing, and they are by far the best resource on youtube.
I also put in an order of BG-1 jigs for support!
I was wondering if you had any pointers for a JDM bank fishing rod for shallow water bluegill/small bass, which is all I'm getting up here in New Jersey. I managed to snag a vanquish 1000 at a great price during black friday and am on the hunt for a good rod to pair it with. Currently considering the Yamaga Blanks 6'7 Nano TZ or the Soare XR 7'6.
For reference my only other high end rod is the St Croix LEP, which I also got thanks to your recommendation.
Keep up the great videos!
I give u high marks for attention and understanding. These two rods would be exactly my two recommendations if u need some extra length to get over some weeds. Honestly i cant pick between them. The yamaga blanks is just a little more sensitive but the soare is a little more confortable and much more beautiful.
Thanks for the input! I went with the Soare because I can't get over how damn pretty it looks. And the little perks like the retractable hook keeper helped too.@@ifishcatfish
@@S_Huth the 7'6 T is a keeper for life. One day they can make better rods but u never gona sell this one.
Out of topic discussion:
I think if you throw jerkbait, crankbait, or spoon you want faster rod because it helps to create action for them.
Slower rod can't make action as good as fast action rods or is it not?
What do you mean by slower and faster rod? I am talking about action. Action is parabolic, if the whole rod is similar stiffness, or progressive (fast action) if the tip is soft and blank is stiff. Neither rods is faster or slower. The recovery of rod depends on the material of the blank and is not much related to action.
@@ifishcatfish I mean the softer tip rod can create better action for jerkbaits, crankbaits, or spoons.
@@Exoskel2 no.. that doesn't even make sense. What would be the reason for such thing?
Great video. What rod would you recommend for being able to cast 0.1-0.5g jigs? I havent found any rods that can comfortably cast that range. They all seem to limit at 1g. My tenyru lunakia says it can do less but i find 1g still the limit :( looking for something i can bomb these super light jigs as the fish in my area are like twice as small as your videos
Presso Air AGS 5'10 XUL. That's the rod. It will still like 1 gram better than 0.5g, but of everything i have ever tried, this is by far the best
I like to throw very light micro plastics too. It’s hard to find a budget option. I think the closest I have found is the regular Presso.
Extra fast bass rods are why every bass fisherman is trying to break the sound barrier when casting. You have to work much harder to cast with a stiff bass rod.
i honestly don't know what you mean with this..
Very interesting!
Great information
How about jig presentation? How different is to precisely present a jig with a moderate vs a fast rod when you what to keep the jig at a given layer of water, or to limit the rise and fall to the jig to a particular amplitude and frequency?
i don't think the action makes a different in that. The weight of the jig is what determines that.
🔝keep on Viktor, I personally love these kind of vids….everything’s technically related to rods , fishing and reels , it is mostly welcomed 👏🏻🔝🎣🙌🏼
Thank you
Wow this was insanely informative! Thanks so much Victor. To be clear there is a difference between XUL and SUL? Essentially to cast 1gram and under jigs effectively you need a moderate action XUL?
XUL and SUL refer to power, not action. They can both be moderate or fast or whatever. They will both cast one gram great. XUL is supposed to be even softer than SUL, but it varies a lot from model to model, even inside the same brand. To me XUL and SUL are the same
@@ifishcatfish Roger that, looking at MajorCraft Finetail for a budget friendly JDM option, seems they only offer SUL. I think it's time to bite the bullet to try something under UL power. Thanks again!
But Victor, we need one more video on hook sets 😂
man, i gota do that!! I'ma have my son hold the camera, and ima show u guys how to set some hooks ; )
@@ifishcatfish I mean how rod power and action affect hook sets on different types of lures and tough vs soft fish lips.
@@Sebastian-lw1ei i don't want to beat a dead horse though... I think this topic is exhausted for now. Extra fast action rods have soft tips and moderate action rods have stiff tips. U can figure it out
@@ifishcatfish Sounds good. Fast action, soft tip, delayed hookup, for soft lip fish?
@@Sebastian-lw1ei I don't agree with putting the responsibility for hookups on the rod. Then what are YOU responsible for? If you jack the rod on every hookset, you gona tear a fish's face with any rod. Especially with braid. I would ban braid if i could. Take it easy on the hookup, enjoy playing the fish, and u will never tear a fish's mouth. I fish only moderate rods and haven't torn a fish's mouth in years.
Do you think soft should be parabolic and then moderate in between parabolic and fast? As slower than parabolic serves no purpose.
Yes. Even completely parabolic feels a little weird. There are no completely parabolic rods, none
@@ifishcatfish yea agreed, no butt section can come close to the tip bend. If I was a manufacturer I'd have some rating system
Viktor, today "fishingmad" a big Australian fishing UA-camr said he uses a fast action rod because it has a stiff tip...
Tell him this: There one Lunatic in USA who say Fast and especially Extra Fast action rods actually have soft tips. I would love it if you debate him and shut him up! He will agree to debate.
I got several hecklers (though not nearly as many as i expected) and i told them i would accept a Live debate with anyone with youtube channel larger than my own. Just set it up and let me know. No takers yet but if someone wants to discuss this in a Live civilized debate, i will do it.
@@ifishcatfish I think I want to weigh in on the subject and do my own video
I'm using a Phenix iron feather which is an extra fast rod
I also use a phenix in mirage which is a moderate action rod
I can put a 3 grams lure on ea rod and use the same reels
The phenix iron feather ( extra fast ) casts further about 30% every cast .
I need to try out your rods because everything u have said seems to be contradictory to my experience using phenix rods for years
The style of fishing plays a factor as u fish from a boat where casting distance doesn't really matter for u and I'm fishing mostly from shore to catch
I don't know either of these two rods but something in this story is not right. Everything else equal, XF cannot outcast Moderate action - it is just simple physics. Either you are confusing the actions (1) or one of the rods is more expensive and has more elastic blank with faster recovery and just casts farther (2) . There might be some other explanation as well, like different guides, but what you are describing is not possible if u have two rods made of the same blank with the same guides. Maybe one is getting overloaded? You need to find the real reason so u can move on.
What about moderate fast is that the best All-rounder?
@@YZGVICTORY yes. Actualy that is my favorite
Moderate is much better for casting 👍
I only use USA made Fast rods - all fast - all bass rods - only bass fishing - only fast rods
😂😂😂 ✌🏼✌🏼✌🏼
And extra fast, they’ve gotta be fast man
Call ya…”Fast Ryan” lol
😂
nice info... looking to get a ultra light rod... going to throw maybe 3 to max 6 grams, i fish off my boat.. what rod length would you recommend to use ?
i don't have recommendations for rod length.. depends on your height and your comfort. I myself don't go more than 6'6 from the boat.. Except for float, but thats different
Hi Victor. Which of these two rods on this example would be better for jigging with 2g jighead? On the one side, the xfast action has soft tip, so there should be no sharp tip at all but has a solid backbone. On the other hand, the moderate rod will bend all the blank while jigging, so you probably will not get a sharp jigging. We are still considering 2g jighead with these two rods. I'm curious about your opinion. Best.
a moderate action ultralight rod will NOT bend when jigging! During the entire video i left a statement in the middle of the video that said that THESE CURVES ARE ACHIEVED WHEN CASSTING 3G jig. When you cast you put a lot of force on the blank. The presso air AGS that i was talking about in this video WILL NOT BEND when jigging with 2 gram jig. It is the tip of the SOARE XR that bends on every twitch and feels mushy
Hi Victor, I agree with you. I'm expecting tomorrow getting my AIR AGS 6.1 ML version, I will let you know about my thoughts about this rod. For now only thoughts because we are having -7C degree now, best.
@@lmps5806 you got the ML? Hopefully u saw my videos that this is really an Ultralight rod. U will see what i mean then. Completely parabolic. Super STIFF tip!
Hi, DHL EST is for tomorrow by the end of the day, yes I finally bought ML version, and very curious about this rod ;). Yes, I saw most of your videos with the ML version ;).
@@ifishcatfish Hi Victor, the ML arrived. I have never had an UL rod this lenght and with a such fast recovery, impressive. Looks amazing, and can't wait to test it on the water ;).
is this soare you recommend Victor ..I am not sure how to interpret some of the numbers on the website. ....it has an S and some sites in japan refer to Saltwater ..( 21 soare XR ).. S610L-S 2.08m 2 106.8cm 74g L 0.6-12g Mono/FC 1.5-4lb
PE 0.1-0.6 98.1% ..wanted to try liGHT before I venture to ultra light. Is for lake shore fishing ..crappie, small bass. It does not say fast etc ..maybe Japan is different for thisthank you
i recommend the Tubular version. It would be perfect for that. All of the solid tips look like the red line in the video, but the tubular tip is nice.
@@ifishcatfishvictor …I see a version … s76UL-T….it is the only one with the T …I assume that is the one u recommend ..t being for tubular .
@@bluesky5587 yes.