the stewards do actually base penaly off of pos. they said so in bahrain when max overtook ham. max later said he would have liked to continue but even though max could have gotten a 10 sec gap. but the fia still said no matter the gap they would just increase the penalty.
the biggest problem is, if your car is damaged , the red flag will give you time to put the car back together. In the next race, hamilton can still 'casuing collision' and then red flag and then fix the car and then win the championship, this way they don't have to fight the red bull which is less probable of winning.
@chain bear but hamilton owned the corner was more than 80% alongside at corner entry and like the rules state and your previous videos this means hamilton owns the corner and max didn't conceed the line he was wanting to take
it's a shame it had to happen like this because before the contact that was some of the finest and most thrilling first lap racing I've seen in a long time...
Racing must always be like this. No one must have a huge gap. Feel sorry for legends like Kimi, Alonso and Vettel. They have no impact while they are brilliant drivers.
They need to change the cars for better racing clearly because the problem with cars following each other has just worsened. The cut in downforce has made it more difficult for drivers to follow and for wheel to wheel racing to occur.
@@JoDON111 So does Chain Bear and the FIA and most drivers, they call it a racing incident with Hamilton *predominantly* at fault and I think that's the best take on it but.. There's another take that it can't be a racing incident because Hamilton was at fault.. This means that it can only be a racing incident if there's no scale of fault or no one is to blame. I don't understand that take so I can't agree or disagree agree with it. Still, I'd like to know how that logic can be explained.
Well, to be fair, the Stewards came to exactly the same conclusion and they're probably the most important of all. The rest is all hype, especially from Horner and his gang.
@@pjay3028 Don't forget all the Hamilton fans, and Verstappen haters that claim Verstappen intentionally turned into Hamilton - which this video debunks.
@@NeelkanthEarthmovers Hopefully not. Germany 2019 was all Vettel so it's easy to digest why he lost the WDC. Plus, Hamilton drove amazingly well from 14th to 1st. This is the exact opposite. This incident is more Hamilton's fault. And while he drove well, it's an absolute far cry from his 2018 Germany performance. If he wins by a few points, some people will ask questions if he purely won on merit. I hope they keep it clean for the rest of the season to avoid that.
…. By less that 25 points. More than that and It will be a long forgotten foot note. Do I think that’s likely? No, the cars are too evenly matched, which is good for us!
A fun fact about this weekend is that Max is the the only driver in history to score points in a weekend despite not completing a single lap of the GP.
Is he? I thought there were times when points were handed out for qualifying on pole, has an incident like this never happened during that period? I could be mistaken of course, but it would definitely be a fun fact :D
@@FengshenNL as far as I know, no. I think they did have the fastest lap point in the race in the 50s but because it was measured on someone's watch it lead to a very messy incident one time where 7 drivers all set the same lap time to 1 second meaning the 7 drivers got 1/7th of a point each. I know...
Lmao I wouldn’t call it a catastrophic pit stop lmao. He lost one position because of it, possibly not even that. Bottas’ pit stop in Monaco is a catastrophic stop.
@@joeprice8163 Come on, if Lewis deliberately crashed into Max, he risked putting himself out of the race too. He was very fortunate that there was a red flag to remove that cracked nut. No human can predict such a high speed collision and plan to take out his rival with such perfection without risking himself. It all happened too quick. Hamilton was indeed at more fault, hence he was given the penalty for his role. Clearly, both of them were responsible, both of them could do something to avoid collision. Max turned knowing Lewis was there, hoping Lewis would back out, Lewis did not back out hoping Max to give him more space. It all happened too quick and was inevitable.
It's actually a bit deceptive. If you look at Max's onboard there's no way his trajectory was leaving Lewis that much space at the apex. His car was aiming for the inside line. This is the problem with these analysis. All the lines they draw just reinforce their position. If people actually saw what I think is the real trajectory and see how much Max just chopped down on Lewis they would have a different opinion.
@@John-ok8ts I also don't think the diagrams are that accurate. I do probably blame Lewis more, just as Chain Bear does, but I think he did get fully alongside (never ahead but alongside), and when watching it looked to me as though the collision didn't take place quite as early in the corner and shown in this video. I don't think Lewis intentionally drove into Max, and I don't think Max intentionally turned in on Lewis, but I don't think either were going to back down and this was almost inevitable. As I've said elsewhere the smart move for Mac would have been to go wider and slower, and initiate contact between the two of them as they got the outside kerb, that way the probable outcone world have been Lewis nudging Max off the track as Lando and Checo did in Austria and thus incurring a 5s penalty and maybe having to give the place back. It wouldn't have ended his race and he'd be much further ahead in the standings. But he's not that sort of driver and this kind of incident was always going to happen.
@@killerhurtalot Again I don't think what they do is right, but at least a little bit does actually go to charity. If he had been sponsored by Raid shadow legends or something none of it would go to charity
My guess is two more between Hamilton and Verstappen. It's game on, now both of them are going to get really chippy with one another and as a neutral I love it
F1 really got exciting after this incident because: 1) the gap in points between Max and Lewis became minimal; 2) they both got hungry to win the WC. I feel like this season gonna be classic like from the days of Senna vs. Prost.
@UCyapQNtwPIo0tUj-wOniMBw and the Hamilton fanboys who think Hamilton did nothing wrong at all and that everyone who says anything else is an idiot and has no idea about F1. Seen a lot of those too. Extreme fanboys like that are just so damn annoying. No matter what topic, you'll always get so many of these morons.
Agree 100%. It’s the clearest and fairest explanation I’ve seen so far. And shows why Lewis’s line was so bad and a no win situation for either of them. If this was a slower corner, then both drivers likely could of driven out of this without contact but this corner is taken at full throttle at 180 mph. That’s almost 300kmh. The fastest I’ve driven is 260 kmh and that was in a straight line. The thought of going around a corner at that speed, with someone so close to me is intimidating as heck. It just seems like it’s not the place to be making an aggressive challenge. People need to remember how fast these vehicles are moving. The crash resulted in a 51G impact which is horrific. Your internal organs can separate from their attachments under those loads. It’s a very serious thing with possibly life altering consequences. Max would have had no choice but to drive off of the track at 180 mph to avoid contact given Lewis’s line, whether he lifted or not. Drive hard and challenge ... sure. Just not on this corner at this speed.
What are you talking about ? Every media outlet has called it a racing incident, but then max’s fans are calling it ‘English bias’- how is this any different, seeing as he’s also calling it a racing incident ?
@@adamdickinson2894 yes, but this video says that it is a Racing incident, which is what most media have been saying.. so now that chain bear has spoken, it’s officially a racing incident ??
Actually I have seen plenty of outlets saying HAM was at fault, VER was at fault (maybe a little harder to find, at least for me) or indeed somewhere in between. While we don’t know for sure if this review is unbiased (still have not found a way to look in CB’s head..), I do think this video has a level headed and nuanced approach which takes most facts into consideration. Maybe that is what sls 12lll meant? To your question how this is any different from other reviews. The video poses the opinion it’s a racing incident with slightly more of the blame on HAM for reasons. At the same time explaining what VER could have done differently. Some outlets have gone out of their way to excuse one drivers behaviour and/or ignored key facts.
@@roeldevries5411 I’m a Hamilton fan hands down, and even I know the incident was more Hamilton’s fault, but still a racing incident. You need to factor in that max has never done anything to yield in a racing situation, so it’s hard for people to give max a pass here. He needs to learn that people will eventually bite back. Horner praised max for his aggressiveness in Spain, but he’s whimpering like a wounded puppy now that Hamilton has done the same
I don't because it just adds another subjective decision to the criteria. Besides, if there was no red flag Mercedes would have struggled to finish the race let alone get a podium place.
@@Hooderaw if they have it scaled and agreed upon before the season starts there is no gray area. 5s for push out on slower corners and 10s stop and go for sending off on full speed corners
Imagine if corners had a multiplier effect. So a standard corner in this situation would be a ten second penalty, a low stakes corner like Austria T4 would be 0.5x so 5 seconds, and a high stakes corner like Copse would be x2 for 20 seconds? Obviously this would be complicated but maybe something like that
@@fighterx4133 sure, let us put scaled penalty quantifyer's on each corner so driver's can decide not to pass instead of racing especially when the 2022 cars are designed to follow closely in the tow with less effect on the down force. We want to see a race not a train lap after lap.
@@craig6339 I don't think street circuits will suffer the most from this. The rating for a corner should be based on 4 factors. 1. The apex speed. The faster you go through the corner the harder the impact is with the wall. 2. Distance from the racing line to the barriers. The longer the distance the more time a car can decelerate, and thus reduce the impact, or time for the driver to recover the car. 3. Type of surface between the racing line and the wall. Asphalt, grass and gravel have different effects on the cars deceleration and the ability of a driver to recover the car. 4. Expected angle of impact with the wall. A shallow angle will have far less impact than a 90 degree angle. Ultimately this leeds to an estimated G-force at impact with the wall. On street circuits like Monaco the speeds are much lower. A 30% reduction in speed results in a 50% lower impact. Tabac will probably be the most dangerous corner. Apex speeds are relatively high, barriers are close and as the corner is much tighter than in the tunnel, the expected angle of impact is wider, thus impact is higher.
I suppose it’s about how easy it is to not cross the pit entry line. That is a safety regulation that to be honest, there is no real excuse for breaking 99% of the time. The contact is part sporting and part safety but it’s complicated by wheel to wheel racing being very difficult to judge and each driver is making instantaneous judgements and split second decisions. One is a very simple situation and the other is very complex. It’s easy to make a clear and fair judgement on something like speeding in the pit lane, making a false start or crossing the white line. Determining what is fair and who is at fault and how serious an incident is is much harder. So, penalties for simple breaches can be harsher and they are still fair because it is a black and white kind of call.
@@joshuaharper4340 your reply sounds like your a 5 yead old. Try adding something to the conversation of worth instead of insulting someone. He asked a question and was hoping ti get an answer which you odviously don't have so instead you insult him. He showed more intelligence than you be asking a legitimate question . You showed 0 intelligence with your answer.
@@joshuaharper4340 Please do reflect on how many grid lost bottas have after today's penalty for the next race. I guess reflecting on your comment and seeing how dangerous that crash comparing to bottas' crash was, you can see the penalty needs to be taken into account better in the future. I do not blame hamiltion it the FIA I am truly pissed off. This was a crash that maybe making verstappen his last race due to the crash. Luckly he was safe. But the penalty is basically saying you got admitted killing but only getting a month of prison time. Totally Insane, sad for me seeing this happen as how much I love mercedes.
Raging kids either don't bother with this channel (which is good for us tbh) Or this channel changes the view of the raging kid and coverts him into a rational kid(which is great)
I'm not so sure. I understand where he's coming from and I wouldn't be mad if it did come into force but It effectively means some corners are worth more than others. In the case of copse, I think it's actually one of the best places on the track to make an overtake and you look like an absolute hero if you pull it off. (I am not buying Horner's thing about you don't make a move at copse) But if the driver knows that making a move there could result in a bigger penalty, then they won't risk it. Yes we have DRS but I personally want to see overtakes that make my jaw drop. And if you take this to the extreme it means that drivers may only risk moves on that DRS straight followed potentially by not risking overtaking at all. I know that this would never happen but I'm not sure this is the absolute best solution.
@@joeogle7729 Drivers would still try to overtake there, just keeping in mind that trying something dangerous will be penalised harshly. Clean overtake or no overtake
He moved under braking and tapped max. I think it should have been a 10s + 10s for both actions. Just a racing incident. But what I didn't like are the fans who were cheering at the incident like that
comments pretty civil so far. I appreciated the thought put into the analysis with consideration of past incidents and the precedent set by the stewards
First time watching the channel, great vid. Fair and balanced, I thought. Racing incident, and Horner's comments were OTT. Impressive to get such a thorough vid up within a few days. Nice!
It certainly has been a very loud few days on social media, not helped by some team bosses getting quite hyperbolic. I'm hoping this season doesn't turn sour, naively perhaps
@@chainbear I think it's exactly what Hornerwas always going to say as soon as Sky gave him the mic, he's right to feel aggrieved and it's fairly regular behaviour for team principles, it was irresponsible of Sky to give him the mic but drama is part of the F1 product now so Sky caved.
Yeah, me too. I still very much disagree with this being anywhere near a racing incident, but as Stuart says, that's subjective and depends on how broadly or narrowly you want to define the term 'racing incident'. In general I've hated the "who was at fault" videos about this crash from other creators, as this is one of the most one-sided incidents we've seen in recent F1 history, but Stuart does what he does best and actually answers that question, rather than having it there merely as a way to appease Hamilton fans who wish to deny he was to blame when he most definitely was.
@@rjfaber1991 Dont think this was as clearly one sided as you say. Though it was mostly Hamilton’s fault undoubtedly, it’s hard to say it is one of the most one sided in recent history when realistically he is obviously trying to overtake him and is just slightly negligent. I don’t think it’s just Lewis fans who can see this angle. And moreover, the penalty was fair - its impossible to retrospectively say in hindsight how little it punished him
@@ApothecaryTerry I knew you was going to be one, took him longer than the others but it's clear that he did the research, none of the other guys mentioned that max made the turn in twice for example , I think this fact made the penalty Hamilton received lesser then it coulda been, I still see it as a racing incident but I put it as Hamilton more at fault, The important thing is max is ok
I’ve always told my friends that I rely on Chain Bear for the most reasoned and unbiased takes and you keep proving me right time and again. Thank you for all your work. Excellent analysis once again.
What Max did, was respecting peer racers on track to avoid bumping into them. On the contrary, Lewis did the opposite, he didn't slow down, despite being behind and on the wrong line going in the turn, which is a F1 rule, clear and simple. This incident clearly showed the bastard mindset of Lewis and to drop deep down to earn crucial points in the championship, consequently, leading Max a DNF, which the Mercedes crew categorically said in there pre-race statement.
@@adityaanand1337 Hamilton is significantly alongside Max at corner entry and if you actually watch the onboard you have hear Hamilton decelerate, I have no clue how you've come to those conclusions
Difficult to argue that F1 has consistently done that, seeing as Grosjean's 2012 incident as Spa was really rather minor in and off itself, but he got hammered with a straight race ban because of the aftermath. In recent times though, it definitely seems as though they have toned that down significantly, and in my opinion gone too far with it. I think consequences should never matter in the decision whether a driver was guilty of a rules breach or not, but they absolutely should matter in the severity of the penalty given.
The aftermath should play a small part. It shouldn't be everything, but we need to understand that the same action under different circumstances can lead to wildly different consequences. If a driver taps another car in a slow corner(and sends the other car offtrack) and the victim car just drives through the grass a little before returning, sure give the offender a small penalty. But if the same exact action is done in a fast corner and the victim car was sent crashing into a wall at high speeds, the small penalty from before doesn't make sense.
@@junsengjsSo are suggesting that if the consequences of this collision had been, say, both cars with wheel damage allowing Charles LeClerk to pass them both, but otherwise no real damage, then the penalty should have been different? Surely the penalty should be solely for the incident, irrespective of the outcome?
@@saxon-mt5by There is something to be said for just punishing the mistake on it's severity itself, yes! But outcomes can be wildly different, and tracks and corners are as well. The contact between Lewis and Max was minimal. In the Monaco hairpin this would be nothing to talk about, at Copse it was crazy dangerous.
@@MossPalone exactly. Hamilton caused it, but is not fully at fault. Whether you want to consider it a racing incident or not is pretty much down to personal opinion about what fault division warrants calling it a racing incident
@@barbonson_richards Hamilton should not have been there, he should have been at the apex. Just a simple fault that can happen... ...The problem is Hamilton not admitting that he is wrong this time.
@@PieterPatrick I agree. Hamilton is definitely predominantly at fault and therefore in a perfectly fair world should therefore get the predominant punishment (Although luck can make a lot of things unfair). Considering verstappen was punished by the crash itself to DNF (out of hands of the stewards though obviously), but considering the circumstances I think hamilton should at least have been given a drive through penalty. The main problem lies with the types of punishments available imo, a 10s time penalty means much less to a merc than to a midfield car for example. It's just (another) example of hamilton's godlike luck.
The best executed and most thought out take I’ve seen yet! Instead of just trying to be the first video out, @chain bear takes the time to get his take right. Great work!!
True but also this adds to the narrative. It makes future close racing behind them even more loaded with tension. Imagine a last round decider and they’re duking it out like this! It’s incredible actually. I really hope next year the new cars don’t change the landscape too much, I want to see these amazing drivers fighting for years to come as close as this.
I'm still team "It was all Hamiltons fault" but I'm definitely not "he was trying to kill Max. He deserved a drive thru, if not a stop/go. But those penalties seemingly don't exist anymore....except post race for Alonso I guess..
The second turn in from Verstappen is different from Schumacher’s one. The slight hesitation of steering positioned him just wide enough to give Hamilton a car width, and then came the second turn in to follow the corner naturally. This is evident on the onboards as Verstappen manage the gap to his right unlike Schumacher when he literally closed that gap Also to everyone saying Verstappen should have backed out because he was ‘the aggressive one all season’: You never consider the context behind a incident. The incident at silverstone was clearly Hamilton’s mistake. End of discussion. About the context though in which this case Verstappen taking his line at Imola and Spain. That was a harsh move from Verstappen and I think the stewards should stop those from happening. But they have repeatedly deemed it legal which is why Most of the drivers do that including Verstappen. The ‘leagal’ thing I mentioned is leaving no room when you are more than half a car ahead. If Hamilton was more than half a car ahead, there would be no complaints about him taking his line at copse. But what actually happened was the opposite. Verstappen was half a car ahead. So what was the point again?
The issue imo is that Copse is a late apex corner (not the green paint, the 2nd Red bump on the inside of the black and white kerbing is the Apex). From what I see, Hamilton could've made the actual Apex but as Max isnt expecting Lewis to contest the corner he doesnt give him enough room on corner entry initially (thus you see him turn out of the corner [straighten up his wheel]). The only way an accident is avoided is if Hamilton HUGS the inside of the corner(not simply hit the Apex, I mean hug it throughout entry to Apex) and doesnt understeer into Max's path but he has taken too much speed to do that. He's expected Max to back out too I put more blame on Lewis because he initiates contact but I would call it a racing "Inshident" like Leclerc Alonso etc Edit: I think I disagree with myself here (that being I think it's a Hamilton penalty instead of just a racing incident) my new thoughts are below
@@danielo7985 I agree and this is part of the reason I say 50:50. Also I almost put more blame on verstappen given how he has driven this year. They would have already crashed like 5x if Hamilton wasn’t anticipating verstappens blind aggression and taking steps to avoid contact. Max has had this coming for a long time. If you never ever give up the racing line no matter what the circumstance then how can someone pass you without this happening.
I agree. The angle and line which Verstappen took after the adjustment would have given Hamilton room on the inside of the corner and afterwards if Hamilton had actually made the apex. This is ultimately where I put the blame IMO. The inside car understeered into the other and caused the collision despite the other giving the racing room on their inside.
Very level headed and absolutely spot on assessment. Those viewing it differently I feel are far too blinded by their fandom of one driver over another to see the woods for the trees here. I love these videos. They need to get your assessments on something like Sky F1.
It would be interesting to have part of the video playing the animation of the crash in 'real-life time' instead of only the slow-mo to illustrate how little time the drivers have to make a decision.
True, but keep in mind that drivers build their entire career on making quick decisions. For us a fraction of a second is nothing, for them it's enough time to react in most situations.
Hopefully he doesn’t get a penalty. Since he DNF’d they can change the gearbox with no penalty and Honda thinks they can salvage this engine. I am loving watching them go wheel to wheel each race so it would be a shame if one of them had to start from the back.
@@colemadonna6284 They can use 3 PUs a year, so chances are they'll put in the 3rd one and in Spa or Monza put in a 4th and take a penalty there. The energy store has a G-load limit and it was exceeded in the crash. That's likely gone so he'll need a 3rd energy store to complete the season which will be a penalty. The turbo might have been damaged too with the g-force at full rpm.
Two top drivers making split second decisions and trying to run their own race. Fault leans towards Hamilton but it's very much just a result of hard wheel-to-wheel racing, which is what F1 fans are always clammering for.
It wasn't a moment decision though. Hamilton knew far too well that he couldn't overtake in that corner, he went for it anyway. This was just desperate.
My thing with all of this discussion is, and as you mentioned at 4:17, is that Lewis at the speed he was he could never stay on the right side even if Max would give him a bit space, it's impossible, so they would crush anyway. Or Lewis had to be first entering in the corner, that was not the case, or he had to brake, like he did with Charles, just before he took him. Well, my opinion is that Lewis had a cheap move, knowing that he had to pass him quickly otherwise it would be like Saturday, and Lewis couldn't accept it to lose in silverstone.
Mercedes and Lewis were feeling the pressure due to how many point Max was ahead by Lewis said so before the race, from what I've seen if Lewis broke sooner and held his line he wouldn't have hit Max, Max held his line the whole time Lewis broke his line and went left a little hit Max's back tire and that's what caused the accident, I know Toto Mercedes and Lewis tried to argue that Max didn't give him enough space based on this and the footage I've seen it was more the fact Lewis had too much speed going into the corner and had to widen his turn and it was almost like he didn't know how close Max was and hit him.
Hamilton backed out for Norris and Leclerc. Every other lap Hamilton was 3 meters more to the right, in years before and years after. Hamilton deliberately crashed into Verstappen almost killing him. 🤮Hamilton is the dirtiest driver out there.
@@pmvdmeulen Oh come on, this is so painfully ignorant. No driver would ever intentionally crash into someone at that kind of speed - especially after the heart-breaking incidents we have seen in recent years. I agree it is mainly Lewis' fault, but I'd say it was 65% Lewis, 35% Max to blame. I don't think the move was 'cheap', he genuinely had a lot of momentum and couldn't just back out after being alongside.
@McCormick0166 you're probably english... the rest of the world knows it was 100% Hamilton's "fault". Very strange that his line in every other lap on Silverstone ever was far far more to the right.
@@pmvdmeulen I am English and of course I have my biases. But I also know how to put those biases aside. There's absolutely no way that was '100% Hamilton's fault' - when Max turned in so sharply (as seen in his onboard). I totally agree that the incident was mainly Lewis' fault and the penalty was deserved, since he missed the apex. But, Max has a tendancy to not leave a lot of space, and he could have been a bit more generous. I'm guessing you also think Monza T1 is Lewis' fault...
There's been a fair few neutral looks by now that have been discarded by the frothing legions as biased. For example, check out Palmer's analysis on the F1 channel.
If you really want to look into a bear pit, go to the Autosport Forum; old-school tantrums and bitching between fans of Lewis and Max. At best, 0.005% civil.
That's because there is way less British bias in the analysis. If I see Buxton and his sidekick's HAM apologetics in their so-called "analysis", I have to barf spontaneously...
Look at Reddit: they technically are civil cause they don't argue much more, but they are split in 2 reddit communities: r/Lewis Hamilton which is completely biased towards ham and r/ formuladank, which should be neutral but are max biased... The two communities just throw shit at each other. Overall rating: 0.1/10
@@edbackhuis5306 driver 61 had almost identical analysis with chainbear.. but those max fans still think he is British therefore side ham.. 🤷🏼♂️ I don’t get it then..
This video should be mandatory viewing before making a comment on the incident on social media. If anyone watches this and still has the absurd view that Hamilton someone did this on purpose or with malicious intent, you seriously need to find a new sport to watch.
He didnt care if they crashed? A small touch in such a speed could have easily crashed both of them and Ham is 33 points behind. No driver would risk a crash at that speed. It was an accident as they were both pushing hard.
@@saivikas9580 as a max fan i agree with you that Lewis wasn't intentional but the penalty wasn't quite right i thought. Lets say max was winning the world championship by 27 points at the penultimate race and Lewis was leading the race, a 10 second penalty to stop Max sending it on the inside and risking both cars going out isn't a big enough deterrent
Concidering Hamilton missed the apex by a good 3/4 of a car width because of front end wash out his imputs would be dealing with that. There is no way he could have turned in tighteras he would have lost the car. Hamilton just missed the corner period and was carrying to much speed , his only option was to hit Max and pray he could keep it on the track. Max gave Hamilton the apex by 1 and 3/4 car widths which was plenty of space. Max was an innocent bystander to Hamilton's colossal error and payed for it. Maxes sterring imput was for one purpose and one purpose only, to make more room for Hamilton by missing the apex of the corner even more it was not a turn in on Hamilton like some leople suggest. The contact was no by Max turning in but by Hamilton's front end giving up and washing out. Hamilton was just going to fast. This was pure desperation on Hamilton's part as he knew that if Max got through the corner in the lead it was all iver barring an unforseen breakdown or mistake by Max. The fact that Hamilton got a slap on the wrist will only give Hamilton more license to try this type of crap.
the only thing about this that leaves a bad taste in my mouth is that HAM and VER are so much quicker than the rest of the field, so you can just take out your title rival (I don't think HAM did it on purpose tho) take the penlaty and still win the race Edit - i could see instead of a time penalty then a post race place penalty, so a 3 place penalty. So in a title race you lose a max of 13 points to your rival instead of a max of 26 points
I'm afraid this might actually happen, for 2 penalty points, each has 5 races to understeer into the rival and basically get a free win, this season could become really dangerous
@@mralireza931 I've seen so many people like you parroting Horner's line about sending max to hospital (he wasn't injured btw, it was a precautionary check) Shows how effective Horner is at manipulating the narrative
@@mralireza931 What kind of shitty take is that? Aggressive driving is now labelled as 'putting your rival in hospital' because another driver had to go to the hospital for a routine checkup after a crash? The 10-second penalty was fair and justified, it was a racing incident, but Hamilton is mostly to blame for it. Stop spouting bullshit over the internet you look stupid.
I’ve been waiting for your video on this incident and wasn’t disappointed. A balanced and thoughtful discussion as expected. I do tend towards the to lenient camp and think Hamilton should have received at least a drive through mainly because of the higher danger involved at that part of the circuit. I also question if there is a need for a rule change so as not to penalise a driver who loses an engine as a result of an incident like this. As it stands, Verstapen has been severely penalised in losing all the points for the race and probable penalties later in the season when he suffers equipment failure. Such outcomes could encourage professional fouls. To be clear, I do not think that Ham committed such on this occasion, I just think he over cooked it in his desperation to gain track position while he still and the opportunity to do so.
Other rules that should change are under red flag repairs can only be done in the pit lane meaning when the race resumes you have to start from the pit lane. You would think twice if a risky move puts you back and you have to drive through the field. 10 sec penalty at your pit stop is weak and should be enforced within 3 laps instead. Why let it all space out so there is no impact? May as well skip it all together then. Lastly I know it is a dollars and cents thing and they are just being cheap but why don't they bring back the backup cars? Used to love the aggressive first lap moves that lead to crashes followed by everyone running for their backup cars while the track is cleared. (Yes Max fans I know it would not help when he was in no shape to run for the backup car but in plenty of other races it would make a difference)
@@Jack-up2cf I dunno about the 10 sec thing, I mean, it's basically adding 10 seconds to your time when they do it post-race, so they shouldn't force them to also take another pitstop. Otherwise it just becomes a 10 second stop-and-go penalty
@@Jack-up2cf The only sense I hear backup cars used is where Nascar teams bring one to a track in case of practice going badly. If they wreck in the race, they wreck and can't get the spare car out of the hauler. Still, yeah, given that they'd have to effectively double some of their costs, I don't see the backup car idea going too far.
Clear Hamiltons fault. He never gonna made the apex and more importantly he did not have his car under control since he understeered to Verstapen. This incident had serios impact on rest of the season and his unability to accept his mistake (he never appologize that he almost killed Max) paid him at Abu Dhabi. Karma always wins.
I think the main point is that Verstappen DID leave space for Hamilton on the inside. Just look at Leclerc's trajectory a few meters behind, he could easily fit in there while being at safe distance from Max. Whether or not Hamilton was able or wanting to fit into that space doesn't change the fact that Max left the space, which is all one could ask of him. It would be unreasonable to say that Verstappen should have gone even further left because Hamilton understeered or something like that.
Verstappen expected Hamilton to brake hard and give space when he(max) turned his steering wheel inside, just like at Spain earlier this year. But Hamilton did not budge this time. And Hamilton expected max not to turn into him any further cuz why would anyone in their right mind turn into the path of another car? But max did it anyways and tasted the result of that.
@@rjfaber1991 I think in the rulebook, there is a rule stating that as long as the atking driver is substantially alongside( defined as more than half a car length next to the defending car) , he will have the right to his path. If you observe closely, till after the entry to the turn at copse, lewis front wing was next to max's front wheel, which satisfys the rule book. Based on that, lewis did nothing wrong , which is why lewis was penalized on a different rule instead.
@@SongShiyu Except, if you let the video play through, you'll find that as soon as they cleared the braking point and headed for the apex, Lewis was no longer significantly alongside and should have yielded the corner. Also, Lewis was literally penalized for _not_ avoiding contact.
@@SongShiyu The rule book doesn't say that, and for a pretty obvious reason; allowing the attacking driver their line as long as they are significantly alongside means that either a) the defending driver has to yield at the slightest hint that their line and that of the attacking driver might cross, thus making overtaking more a matter of putting your car in an unnatural and potentially dangerous position than about actually getting past, or b) both have an equal right to their line, in which case there will be a crash every time those lines happen to cross. The 'significantly alongside' has to do with leaving space, which Verstappen was obliged to do with Hamilton significantly alongside him. However, that is also exactly what Verstappen did; in fact he gave Hamilton about twice as much space as he actually had to.
Great analysis! Also: "Ultimately, if you ruin someone's race because of a mistake, and you're able to come back to a place ahead of the other person, that penalty doesn't outweigh your mistake. You shouldn't be able to finish ahead of the other person if you take them out of the race" - Lewis Hamilton, 2018
I’ve watched a lot of analysis on this incident being fairly new to the intricacies of F1 and I really like your take on it. I think your point regarding penalties matching the risk is extremely pertinent here and a drive through would have been the correct outcome.
Matching the risk??? Had Verstappen hit the wall that hard in the 80s cars, he'd have died or been maimed. Hell, without the halo he might have got a head or neck injury from the tire barrier. Disturbing that the modern barrier material doesn't extend far enough to catch this crash.
@@mikewagenbach1787 certainly seems like with barrier safety the FIA are more reactive than proactive in certain areas. Grosjean’s crash last year shows how well certain things work but others need massive improvement. Pretty sure Kyvat crashed at the first Silverstone GP last year then an extension was added to the kerb in the same area too. Wrt the barrier at Copse, maybe this is further evidence that points to Lewis being “at fault” than “predominately at fault”. With the size of the cars now, that’s a square peg into a round hole trying to make that manoeuvre there causing Max to take a trajectory no one had predicted. Will be interesting to see how this weekend plays out.
if anyone thinks this is a binary situation 1 is 100% at fault, i urge them to go drive a decently powered gokart and try and get a decent time lap. And pay attention how precise you can really drive when you're doing fast cornes. It's not that easy to punish such incidents because this is a fight for the championship and both of them are on the limit. If we want a tight fight, there will be incidents like this. But unless you want a boring season, where everyone is driving on rails, i suggest you don't complain too much. i think this was fantastic racing.
I mean, last season everyone wanted a no holds barred, all out fight on track, and now we're getting it. People should expect this things to happen. When 2 aggressive and stubborn drivers give and take as much as Max & Lewis did, something or someone has to give. It's just unfortunate that Max was the one that paid for the tussle. Would've made for an interesting race. I personally see it as a racing incident, with most blame to Lewis because of the boneheaded attempt he did. He didn't mean to wipe out Max, but nonetheless its boneheaded.
Except Hamilton perfectly held his line later on, going even faster on older tyres. So your point is totally moot. But even if you accept your story, then Hamilton should never have put his car there. Honestly people defending this divebomb are delusional.
@@Mik1604 Exactly, Crymilton took the apex with Charles. He just did the "pit" maneuver a la LAPD on Verstapen Killmilton can't handle Max anymore and he knows it.
Regardless of how you see this incident I’m glad it happened now and now in Race 22 with both drivers on almost equal points. It’s already a shit show as is, imagine if this was at the end of the season…
Max fans wouldn't be as mad if Silverstone was the end of the season. It would mean he won the championship. This really puts the sticks to team Red Bull if the engine was damaged. You only get 3 all season. This was a nearly new engine, so he could be down to just 1 more to last the remainder of 21. It's a tough break for Verstappen and Red Bull if that engine cant be fixed. And then the budgets in place for 21. It could get really bad for them after this. We will just have to see.
Chain Bear, I'd love to see your explanation on comparing this overtake opportunity Vs Barcelona turn 1 where Verstappen missed the apex of the corner, just dived up the inside hitting Hamiltons car wide and forcing his way through. In that situation he didn't get a penalty or even investigated yet it's basically the same as the incident into copse the only difference's being it was the other way around and Hamilton didn't get flung into a wall.
That one should have been a penalty for Verstappen imo, quite clearly. The driver overtaking has the responsibility not to make contact, given he does not get cut off.
You're comparing two incidents that have nothing in common. Just be thankful Lewis's desperate driving didn't cost him or anyone else physical injuries.
Exactly. People are allowing the speed and outcome to effect their opinions. Unless the idea of changing the severity of the penailties based on the corner comes into effect they have to be seen as very similar incidents.
@@mralireza931 Basically every current driver, every team manager (Except Red Bull & Alpha Tauri) have said that it was just hard racing where neither driver yielded, a few put more blame on Hamilton than Verstappen but one thing they all agreed on is that it was a racing incident. Explain how they do not have anything in common. 1. Driver attempting the overtake decided to try on the inside of a corner 2. Driver attempting the overtake went in too hot 3. Driver attempting the overtake missed the apex of the corner 4. Driver attempting the overtake made contact with the other driver 5. Driver attempting the overtake succeeded in gaining a position 6. Driver attempting the overtake ultimately forced the other driver wide/off the track Differences: 1. Hamilton didn't go flying off into the wall. 2. Hamilton didn't have to retire from the race. 3. The speed was slower. 4. There was arguably a lot more intent with the Barcelona incident. Both incidents are equally as bad as each other, you don't (shouldn't) penalize based on the outcome of an incident rather you penalize on the incident itself! If Hamilton had gone off into the wall or had a tyre/suspension failure in Barcelona then I can guarantee Verstappen would have received the same sort of penalty. Likewise if Verstappen had just ran a tiny bit wide and came back on behind/beside Hamilton in Copse I highly doubt any penalty would have been applied. It was wrong to penalize Hamilton this weekend, especially when no penalty was applied to Verstappen in Barcelona. Both incidents are were racing incidents and hard racing so in both cases neither driver deserved a penalty in my opinion.
This is why I don't have any interest in following F1. Dominated by 2 to 3 teams with ALL the money and advantage, and then "everyone else". Add to that the other particulars of the series that make passing a rare thing, and it's just... boring. I watch Chainbear because I like hearing about the particulars; rules, regulations, penalty evaluation, technology advancements and changes, etc. But when 80% of podium finishes are gotten by only two teams because they have the most money... that's not a race, that's a fashion show.
Sebs short fight for the title in I think 2018 didn't come close. Back then it was either a superior Ferrari or a superior Merc depending on the track, not both cars fighting together on the same track, at least not as much as now.
I must say I’m very concerned by the recent move towards softer penalties for collisions in recent years. It puts e.g. marginally crossing the white line on a par with crashing into another driver. I’d want to see at least a drive through for causing a collision and a stop-go for particularly careless or dangerous moves.
But also keep in mind that crossing a white line (Tsunoda) is easier to not violate. So maybe violating a rule like that should be punished hard. Just a thought, what do you think?
While I don't disagree with the sentiment (safety first) you do risk turning a series where it is already difficult to overtake because of the nature of the cars into one where it is almost impossible because of the added risk of penalties. Also while I don't want to belittle the risks involved it has to be noted that aside from 2 freak accidents there haven't been many injuries as the results of crashes (even less if purely looking at driver/driver incidents rather than mechanical failure or driver error) in the last 20yrs so discouraging drivers from taking risks might seem counterproductive to the sport, the cars and circuits are very well designed to mitigate the risk of accidents when they do happen. (Please don't take this as "they knew the risks when they became racing drivers" viewpoint or a desire to return to the live-fast-die-young attitude of the pre 70's. I don't believe there should be excess risk involved and I have no desire to see anyone get hurt but we must accept an inherent level of risk involved in all motorsport and ythis is part of its appeal. I am proud of all those who have made the sport as safe as it is today through sacrifice, campaigning, science and technology.)
This is the first video about this topic I agree with to be honest. I found it rather difficult to watch any of the Sky Sports coverage because of how clearly biased they were towards Hamilton, with pretty much everyone except Jenson Button saying it should have been an unpenalised racing incident. But I also can't get over my own bias and see it purely objectively because I would really, really like Max to win the Drivers' Championship rather than Lewis. I have emotional stakes in my take so I can't view it as an outsider. This video worked for me. No, Lewis was probably never going to make that move stick, it was uncharacteristically desperate, he was never going to be in front of Max. But they are fighting for a Championship and neither intended on giving the other any breathing space. The final take of "I wouldn't be opposed to penalties getting scaled with the danger of a corner" will be my agreed takeaway. And hats off to having a go at doing this video! Very brave!
I'm a Lewis fan but I couldn't stand the F1 or Sky coverage. Lewis was clearly in the wrong, not by the absurd amount some of Max's fans seem to think but if you hit the other drivers rear wheel with your front then it's your fault really. I think it's fair he got a penalty and at the time I expected it to be either 10 seconds or a drive though with a drive through being a bit harsh and 10 seconds being a bit light. Honestly they need to be more willing to use things like 15 second and 20 second penalties so there can be a bit more flexibility in the penalties.
Hamilton takes the risk into the corner more so than Max does. Max is not backing out, but allows Lewis ample space. Lewis misses the apex which would have ended with him off the track at the exit of the corner, whether Max was there or not. Watch Lewis' onboard to see the line he chooses. He is either hitting Max or forcing him off the track at the exit of the corner. As the driver coming from behind on the inside, it is Lewis responsibility to make the move safely. If it cannot be accomplished safely, any collision falls into the responsibility of the attacking driver. This is providing they are allowed the necessary space from the defending driver. Max left the space, giving up on the apex, trusting Lewis to make the move safely. Lewis stays wide/understeers into Max, resulting in the accident as well as an enormous swing in the championship points.
It was all hamilton’s fault. It was his responsibility not to hit the driver on the outside and it was max’ responsibility to give Lewis room, which he did
You managed to have a civilized comment section! Congratulations on the video and on the audience :D I love your content and your views on F1, please keep it up!
It’s interesting that Charles Leclerc was capable of driving through the same spot alongside Lewis without an accident. It really boils down to attitude.
Hamilton backed out for Norris and Leclerc. Every other lap Hamilton was 3 meters more to the right, in years before and years after. Hamilton deliberately crashed into Verstappen almost killing him. 🤮
You’re right. Hamilton and Max were racing each other super hard that season, and that was their attitude. They give more space to people who are smaller threats
Great video!! I always have trouble with the f1 punishments as their impact varies a lot, and they dont help the affected party. I know hamilton had no malicious intent but it feels like under current rules either verstappen or hamilton could take someone out and because of their significant better cars still always end up on the podium. It is hard to punish someone accordingly when they have such an advantage over the rest of the field. A 10 second penalty for Riccardo for example has far more consequences than for Hamilton. I don't know what should or could be done about it but it always troubles me
@@rmx39 No he doesn't. And Max will drive with more caution now because Red Bull are up against the budget cap after Max's car was completely totaled which has cost the team heavily. Red Bull can't risk losing a car on back to back weeks now that F1 teams have a limited budget to work with.
@@CrewGuyPJ Well he is welcome him to total his car again and again and see how far Red Bull get this season when they've exhausted all of their remaining budget on re-building the entire car. His choice.
@@jiujitsujedi Chain bear has no bias towards British drivers he always looks at the facts there are times when he hasn't defended Ham for his mistakes
@@NanaGlover The title did have me worried, since it seems only Brits are asking who's fault this crash was, while the entire rest of the world finds it bloody obvious that it was Hamilton's, but in fairness, Stuart did a great job on this one, and it was genuinely impartial.
I’m down with the idea of grading corners by difficulty and speed, maybe angle as well. Having a 3 level system. Level 1 would slow corners and go up accordingly
Maybe but we dont want to discurage racing to, its gonna be a fine balance. I honestly want close and risky racing and with how safe the cars are today (Verstappen just pulled 51 G without any major issues) i dont see why we should make it more costly for drivers to go for tough and risky moves
@@karleklof2049 totally get where you are coming from. Honestly me watching nascar then coming to f1 that crash was kinda light. I loved every bit of the battle.
Well I'm glad someone made a balanced take on this. I think Hamilton is taking more chances now, since Verstappen is a calculating and ruthless driver, sometimes to a fault but it works for him. But honestly, the way some Verstappen fans were talking about it, you'd think Hamilton tried to commit a murder or something, it's disgusting.
Wait till Crymilton hits the wall see how you react. I bet it will not be so calm it will happen you will not think it was an "incident" and you will definitely not put any blame on Crymilton. I can bet you on that.
And there we go again! Yes sure some of Max his fans are trash, and when Lewis his fans where all beacons of wisdom you would have a point. There is discusting behaviour out there, period. And it's not just coming from one side.
I just want to say how much I appreciate the level of attention to the animation and graphics. I watched every available camera angle of the crash and the moments running up to it, and this is perfectly recreated in this video. My compliments to Steward. I also came to the same conclusion as in this video. None of the drivers made a big mistake. The only mistakes Ham made, where split-second decisions, hard to blame him heavily.
It's is home circuit, he knows the dangers and he entered the corner 3 KMH faster than normal while on the slower inside line!. He damn well knows this was going to end in disaster. It was a move out of frustration.
@@10vingers Al the drivers asked how Verstappen was doing accept Hamilton, he was to busy celebrating his win knowing he pushed out Verstappen and was in the hospital at that time. It was the only way he could win and he succeeded.
@@teunio501 hamilton asked how verstappen was just right after hitting him. Btw verstappen didnt ask once how was hamilton after monza's crash. Im not pro ham or ver just saying facts
I like your comment about scaling penalties. This is exactly how I feel about it. Sending the other car on to the gravel is not the same as sending it into the barrier at 180 mph. We want more intense racing, not injured drivers or early retirements. And seriously, that battle was the most thrilling I've seen in a while, such a shame it ended so early. Appreciate the neutrality of the take btw, like many here, I've been waiting for this video since I saw the race. Cheers mate, looking forward to your next video!
I mostly agree, but there are two points that need to be considered. 1. Is there anything in the current rulebook about the speed of crash, etc? If not, I consider the point to be a 'bad take' for this weeks' incident, and should only have been discussed as something that might need to be changed in future. Chain Bear's analysis of the rules is normally more precise on these things. [I do not know the answer myself and would have liked to know]. 2. Could the rule (change?) have the unintended effect that it is essentially stops wheel-to-wheel overtakes on certain parts of the track. Therefore, it puts us on a road to sanitizing F1 and removing these types of corner completely. Therefore, the rule would have to be very carefully written. My current take is that Hamilton deserved the 10-second time penalty. As the way his mistake is judged an understeer that caused a crash. It certainly wasn't a dive bomb. Therefore, it fits with other penalties. However, if crash severity was taken into account the penalty should have been harsher.
It is. If Valtteri had more pace he could help Hamilton kill Verstappen. Lewis had to do it alone because his teammate wasn't there and he didn't deliver - Toto
Looking at this video’s Likes and Dislikes ratio and Formula One’s Channel Likes And Dislikes Ratio on this incident tells a lot about what people think about this incident. Great Unbiased Video
I have been waiting for this one! I fully agree that mistakes through Copse, 130R, Eau Rouge and other fast corners should be punished much heavier. Hitting someone at T4 in Austria, or the Monaco hairpin is going to (rightfully) annoy them at worst. This type of error into Copse can send them off in a bodybag
I don't think it's a bad idea, I personally want to see overtakes that make my jaw drop, and if a driver knows that making a move there will result in a bigger penalty then why risk it? And if you take it to it's absolute extreme why risk overtaking at all. I know that this would never happen because they're racing drivers but I'm not sure that's the complete solution that will plaster everything.
A pretty balanced take as always. I like your last point, I think it would be a good idea to take the danger of the corner into account when dishing out penalties.
@@alan_davis Well you are wrong. If drivers know they will get harsher penalties if they do anything wrong on a dangerous corner they won't be making any moves in a dangerous corner.
It looks to me that Lewis deflected/steered Max off the circuit which is evident because Lewis ended up way over to the other side. Lewis knew what he was doing and is extremely fortunate that Max wasn't killed or seriously injured, that's no exaggeration. Celebrating like he did proves again that it was deliberate, he didn't care.
What are your thoughts on fixing the car under red flags being met with going to the back of the grid? Seems Lewis has benefited twice just out of luck from red flags that would've otherwise led to a DNF.
I always believed it would be better if repairs took place in pit lane and the car rejoins after the race has restarted - a team can always elect to stay out with a damaged car if it is safe to do so and fix it at a scheduled stop if they want to retain track position.
That could be an interesting rule, i don't even agree with changing tyres during red flags(except when mandated for safety reasons like Baku), so a drive through for making changes to the car during the red flag would be really nice
Thanks, I was looking forwards to your analysis a lot! Very clear, and the racing lines visualized are great. It would've been interesting to see the Hamilton vs Leclerc comparison to this too. From that overtake, we could see that Leclercs trajectory through the corner seemed identical to Max's, but he ultimately went a bit wide anyway. Aside from completely giving up the corner by lifting, I don't see how Max could've given more space (while still being competitive).
Leclerc was in worse car on shot tyres tho, whereas Verstappen had arguably the best handling car on the grid with fresh tyres on. No chance Verstappen would have ran wide like Leclerc did.
You're right. Leclerc and mad took almost identical racing lines. But its just that Leclerc was afraid of another incident and tried to give more space than he could and went wide. And LH since he was not under much pressure or being in a better car, just took the inside line along the apex. So, instead of converging like on the first lap, they diverged.......if that makes any sense.
Max vs Lewis(lap 1) and Leclarc vs Lewis(lap 51) are not comparable because - 1. First one with full fuel load, 2nd one with almost empty tank. 2. 50 laps with 19 cars is enough to lay down rubbers in the corner affecting grip 3. Drivers choose their fight, so Leclarc was not in same mentality with Max fighting Lewis. 4. After seeing a 51G impact incident in that corner no driver in right mind want to be in the same position. 5. Leclarc had his own share of trouble with PU which made him cautious about power. 6. There are many other factors like driving style, risk-reward options, tire performance, downforce level etc.
Great video and insightful commentary. Up to now, the ‘rule’ has been “leave enough space on the inside”, which Max did. He was still clipped. Hamilton received the penalty. Clearly the stewards thought he was at fault.
@@valour10 Well, yes. It infers that Hamilton was deemed mostly responsible for the crash and given a penalty. How is that different than anything I posted?
By the same concept, 2:04 - The first corner of the race, Lewis should be ahead, but Max goes off track and still comes from behind and would have collided but no one talks about it 3:10 - They were both along side (not that gap what the video is showing) and you can watch the race if you want to clear that out Max and his fan kids wants to say he is aggressive cause he wants to win, but Lewis this whole year has avoided collisions on almost all race starts cause Max was too aggressive. This is what happens when the other racer also acts aggressive like Max, doesn't end well. Hopefully both can take this and better themselves and have amazing race for the rest of the season. This season is epic. Can't miss one race, it can decide everything
Awesome awesome.... awesome animations. You have put exactly what I have been commenting for the last 5 days!! Precisely!! - Both drivers knew what they are going for into that corner. And that's what qualifies for racing incident. Both took the risk and unfortunately it didn't end well for one of them. That's it.
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How did you see this so differently than Schumacher case?
the stewards do actually base penaly off of pos. they said so in bahrain when max overtook ham. max later said he would have liked to continue but even though max could have gotten a 10 sec gap. but the fia still said no matter the gap they would just increase the penalty.
Please take a look at the pass Raikanen did on Vettel during the spring race in the same corner!
the biggest problem is, if your car is damaged , the red flag will give you time to put the car back together. In the next race, hamilton can still 'casuing collision' and then red flag and then fix the car and then win the championship, this way they don't have to fight the red bull which is less probable of winning.
@chain bear
but hamilton owned the corner was more than 80% alongside at corner entry
and like the rules state and your previous videos
this means hamilton owns the corner and max didn't conceed the line he was wanting to take
Can't wait for all the civil discussion in the comments of this video.
Yeah... Get your popcorns ready cause the action is right here
I love how this exact comment is in every comment section of any controversial topic.
I’m certain there will be no racism or jingoism in any reply. On a side note, I also just purchased some oceanfront property in Chad.
This is going to be fun. See children who just watch F1 since 2017 complain and talk like they are F1 expert.
Yea f1 fans are very civil 😂
it's a shame it had to happen like this because before the contact that was some of the finest and most thrilling first lap racing I've seen in a long time...
so true!!
I was on the edge of my seat that entire lap, it was awesome! But the rest of the race was awesome too, I'd say it was the best of the season so far
Racing must always be like this. No one must have a huge gap. Feel sorry for legends like Kimi, Alonso and Vettel. They have no impact while they are brilliant drivers.
They need to change the cars for better racing clearly because the problem with cars following each other has just worsened. The cut in downforce has made it more difficult for drivers to follow and for wheel to wheel racing to occur.
100 percent true
Ok now this is the analysis I've waited for ever since I saw the accident.
Glad it wasn't just me
Why are people asking, "Who is to blame?" almost as if Lewis can't be wrong?
@@JoDON111 So does Chain Bear and the FIA and most drivers, they call it a racing incident with Hamilton *predominantly* at fault and I think that's the best take on it but..
There's another take that it can't be a racing incident because Hamilton was at fault.. This means that it can only be a racing incident if there's no scale of fault or no one is to blame. I don't understand that take so I can't agree or disagree agree with it. Still, I'd like to know how that logic can be explained.
@@miltonflusk. Maybe because they don't understand the situation fully, if you pump the brakes a bit maybe you'd realise that's a plausibility.
Palmer kinda had the same thoughts
I think we can all agree collectively it was Mazepin's fault
I think Ericsson hit him
If mazepin doesn't get the merc seat I'll cry
so Vettel must be DSQd
@@whohouuu and 10 second penalty too Esty besty
Finally something sensible explanation. Who is neutral and not just based on hype or blind hate.
Fax
Well, to be fair, the Stewards came to exactly the same conclusion and they're probably the most important of all. The rest is all hype, especially from Horner and his gang.
Says everyone on every video analyzing this lol
yeah, i also agree with Jolyon palmer analysis
@@pjay3028 Don't forget all the Hamilton fans, and Verstappen haters that claim Verstappen intentionally turned into Hamilton - which this video debunks.
This incident will be talked about for years if Hamilton wins the C'ship.
Update: This comment is obselete :')
Imagine of it will be like Germany 2018.
Nope
@@NeelkanthEarthmovers Hopefully not. Germany 2019 was all Vettel so it's easy to digest why he lost the WDC. Plus, Hamilton drove amazingly well from 14th to 1st.
This is the exact opposite. This incident is more Hamilton's fault. And while he drove well, it's an absolute far cry from his 2018 Germany performance. If he wins by a few points, some people will ask questions if he purely won on merit.
I hope they keep it clean for the rest of the season to avoid that.
@@NeelkanthEarthmovers Adelaide '94 is more comparable imo
…. By less that 25 points. More than that and It will be a long forgotten foot note.
Do I think that’s likely? No, the cars are too evenly matched, which is good for us!
A fun fact about this weekend is that Max is the the only driver in history to score points in a weekend despite not completing a single lap of the GP.
Also the youngest driver to do so!
Edit: And the oldest!
Is he? I thought there were times when points were handed out for qualifying on pole, has an incident like this never happened during that period? I could be mistaken of course, but it would definitely be a fun fact :D
@@FengshenNL f1 never awarded points on quali
@@FengshenNL as far as I know, no. I think they did have the fastest lap point in the race in the 50s but because it was measured on someone's watch it lead to a very messy incident one time where 7 drivers all set the same lap time to 1 second meaning the 7 drivers got 1/7th of a point each. I know...
@@ItsGameTox in a bizarre coincidence, max is also the exact average age of every driver who has ever scored points without completing a lap of the GP
I'm glad that there's so much drama around this to distract me from the pain of Lando's catastrophic pit stop.
Lmao I wouldn’t call it a catastrophic pit stop lmao. He lost one position because of it, possibly not even that. Bottas’ pit stop in Monaco is a catastrophic stop.
Sainz: am I a joke to you?
Poor guy..
@@yvltc I've become desensitized (De-Sainz-itized?) to bad pitstops for Carlos.
He wouldn't have come 3rd anyway.
FINALLY, never anticipated a chain bear video more than this one
so true!
Another accented (British biased analysis). I guess this is what the FIA wants F1 to become. Why race if you can punt your rival?
@@joeprice8163
Come on, if Lewis deliberately crashed into Max, he risked putting himself out of the race too. He was very fortunate that there was a red flag to remove that cracked nut. No human can predict such a high speed collision and plan to take out his rival with such perfection without risking himself. It all happened too quick. Hamilton was indeed at more fault, hence he was given the penalty for his role. Clearly, both of them were responsible, both of them could do something to avoid collision. Max turned knowing Lewis was there, hoping Lewis would back out, Lewis did not back out hoping Max to give him more space. It all happened too quick and was inevitable.
Just want to say this animation is absolutely brilliant!
Thank you Jamie’s brother
It's actually a bit deceptive. If you look at Max's onboard there's no way his trajectory was leaving Lewis that much space at the apex. His car was aiming for the inside line. This is the problem with these analysis. All the lines they draw just reinforce their position. If people actually saw what I think is the real trajectory and see how much Max just chopped down on Lewis they would have a different opinion.
@@John-ok8ts I also don't think the diagrams are that accurate. I do probably blame Lewis more, just as Chain Bear does, but I think he did get fully alongside (never ahead but alongside), and when watching it looked to me as though the collision didn't take place quite as early in the corner and shown in this video. I don't think Lewis intentionally drove into Max, and I don't think Max intentionally turned in on Lewis, but I don't think either were going to back down and this was almost inevitable.
As I've said elsewhere the smart move for Mac would have been to go wider and slower, and initiate contact between the two of them as they got the outside kerb, that way the probable outcone world have been Lewis nudging Max off the track as Lando and Checo did in Austria and thus incurring a 5s penalty and maybe having to give the place back. It wouldn't have ended his race and he'd be much further ahead in the standings. But he's not that sort of driver and this kind of incident was always going to happen.
crazy good
Yeah, it really made it so easier to follow.
This guy is completely FOOLISH
He didn't even mention the possibility that it could have been Ericsson's fault
NGL had me in the first half
Ahem. Think you'll find it was Valterris fault
Anyone with the right mind knows it's Ericsson's fault
Rubbish! It was clearly Maldonado's fault, again!
Why would you ever think Ericsson?! This was clearly Mazespins fault.
I was so angry when this happened but now im just mad we missed a full race of them going at it in silverstone😂
omaze got a good deal on being featured in this juicy one
I hope Stuart got a bumper deal for this one.
Pretty disappointing to see him advertise a for profit "charity", to be honest.
Omaze is trash.
@@grmasdfII agree, but at least their giving *some* of the profits to charity.
@@ericvandereems6604 yeah. like 1.5% of the donated amount lol. Omaze makes more than what's given to the charity.
@@killerhurtalot Again I don't think what they do is right, but at least a little bit does actually go to charity. If he had been sponsored by Raid shadow legends or something none of it would go to charity
I wonder how many more controversial indcidents will Chain Bear have to analyze by the end of the season
My guess is two more between Hamilton and Verstappen. It's game on, now both of them are going to get really chippy with one another and as a neutral I love it
F1 really got exciting after this incident because:
1) the gap in points between Max and Lewis became minimal;
2) they both got hungry to win the WC.
I feel like this season gonna be classic like from the days of Senna vs. Prost.
How more many races are there?
@@JamaicanMeCrazy This was race 10, so 12-13 more to go.
Hopefully not even one more. We want races, not crashes.
0:08 "You all knew this was gonna happen, guys. So bear with me."
-Chain- bear with me.
@@curtislevey7639 What about _belt_ bear ?
@@mro9466 couldn't help but sink my *claws* into a good pun
Badum tum tsss
The only video I've seen with a positive like/dislike ratio on the incident. Very well said
Well, its mostly the Verstappen fans that are p*ssed about this racing incident, more than anyone else. They need to grow up tbh.
@@xAmiin And this comment paves the way forward
@UCyapQNtwPIo0tUj-wOniMBw and the Hamilton fanboys who think Hamilton did nothing wrong at all and that everyone who says anything else is an idiot and has no idea about F1. Seen a lot of those too. Extreme fanboys like that are just so damn annoying. No matter what topic, you'll always get so many of these morons.
did The Race get more dislikes now?
Max fans blame Lewis fans, Lewis fans tell Max fans to stop crying because Lewis' a saint. Oh you two shut up!
controversy aside the animation for this one is top notch
Agree 100%. It’s the clearest and fairest explanation I’ve seen so far. And shows why Lewis’s line was so bad and a no win situation for either of them. If this was a slower corner, then both drivers likely could of driven out of this without contact but this corner is taken at full throttle at 180 mph. That’s almost 300kmh.
The fastest I’ve driven is 260 kmh and that was in a straight line. The thought of going around a corner at that speed, with someone so close to me is intimidating as heck. It just seems like it’s not the place to be making an aggressive challenge. People need to remember how fast these vehicles are moving. The crash resulted in a 51G impact which is horrific. Your internal organs can separate from their attachments under those loads. It’s a very serious thing with possibly life altering consequences.
Max would have had no choice but to drive off of the track at 180 mph to avoid contact given Lewis’s line, whether he lifted or not.
Drive hard and challenge ... sure.
Just not on this corner at this speed.
This is probably the most unbiased view of this crash that I've ever watched.
What are you talking about ? Every media outlet has called it a racing incident, but then max’s fans are calling it ‘English bias’- how is this any different, seeing as he’s also calling it a racing incident ?
@@deezelkane did you watch CB's video on the Vettel Canada 2019 incident? If you had, you'd see he doesn't have 'English bias'
@@adamdickinson2894 yes, but this video says that it is a Racing incident, which is what most media have been saying.. so now that chain bear has spoken, it’s officially a racing incident ??
Actually I have seen plenty of outlets saying HAM was at fault, VER was at fault (maybe a little harder to find, at least for me) or indeed somewhere in between. While we don’t know for sure if this review is unbiased (still have not found a way to look in CB’s head..), I do think this video has a level headed and nuanced approach which takes most facts into consideration. Maybe that is what sls 12lll meant?
To your question how this is any different from other reviews. The video poses the opinion it’s a racing incident with slightly more of the blame on HAM for reasons. At the same time explaining what VER could have done differently. Some outlets have gone out of their way to excuse one drivers behaviour and/or ignored key facts.
@@roeldevries5411 I’m a Hamilton fan hands down, and even I know the incident was more Hamilton’s fault, but still a racing incident. You need to factor in that max has never done anything to yield in a racing situation, so it’s hard for people to give max a pass here. He needs to learn that people will eventually bite back.
Horner praised max for his aggressiveness in Spain, but he’s whimpering like a wounded puppy now that Hamilton has done the same
I really like the idea in which the danger level of a corner can impact a penalty.
I don't because it just adds another subjective decision to the criteria. Besides, if there was no red flag Mercedes would have struggled to finish the race let alone get a podium place.
@@Hooderaw if they have it scaled and agreed upon before the season starts there is no gray area. 5s for push out on slower corners and 10s stop and go for sending off on full speed corners
Imagine if corners had a multiplier effect. So a standard corner in this situation would be a ten second penalty, a low stakes corner like Austria T4 would be 0.5x so 5 seconds, and a high stakes corner like Copse would be x2 for 20 seconds? Obviously this would be complicated but maybe something like that
@@fighterx4133 sure, let us put scaled penalty quantifyer's on each corner so driver's can decide not to pass instead of racing especially when the 2022 cars are designed to follow closely in the tow with less effect on the down force. We want to see a race not a train lap after lap.
@@craig6339 I don't think street circuits will suffer the most from this. The rating for a corner should be based on 4 factors.
1. The apex speed. The faster you go through the corner the harder the impact is with the wall.
2. Distance from the racing line to the barriers. The longer the distance the more time a car can decelerate, and thus reduce the impact, or time for the driver to recover the car.
3. Type of surface between the racing line and the wall. Asphalt, grass and gravel have different effects on the cars deceleration and the ability of a driver to recover the car.
4. Expected angle of impact with the wall. A shallow angle will have far less impact than a 90 degree angle.
Ultimately this leeds to an estimated G-force at impact with the wall.
On street circuits like Monaco the speeds are much lower. A 30% reduction in speed results in a 50% lower impact. Tabac will probably be the most dangerous corner. Apex speeds are relatively high, barriers are close and as the corner is much tighter than in the tunnel, the expected angle of impact is wider, thus impact is higher.
I find it weird that this is 10 seconds, but crossing the white pit lane line twice is also 10 seconds
Because you’re not very bright
I suppose it’s about how easy it is to not cross the pit entry line. That is a safety regulation that to be honest, there is no real excuse for breaking 99% of the time.
The contact is part sporting and part safety but it’s complicated by wheel to wheel racing being very difficult to judge and each driver is making instantaneous judgements and split second decisions.
One is a very simple situation and the other is very complex. It’s easy to make a clear and fair judgement on something like speeding in the pit lane, making a false start or crossing the white line. Determining what is fair and who is at fault and how serious an incident is is much harder.
So, penalties for simple breaches can be harsher and they are still fair because it is a black and white kind of call.
@@joshuaharper4340 your reply sounds like your a 5 yead old. Try adding something to the conversation of worth instead of insulting someone. He asked a question and was hoping ti get an answer which you odviously don't have so instead you insult him. He showed more intelligence than you be asking a legitimate question . You showed 0 intelligence with your answer.
@@joshuaharper4340 Please do reflect on how many grid lost bottas have after today's penalty for the next race. I guess reflecting on your comment and seeing how dangerous that crash comparing to bottas' crash was, you can see the penalty needs to be taken into account better in the future. I do not blame hamiltion it the FIA I am truly pissed off. This was a crash that maybe making verstappen his last race due to the crash. Luckly he was safe. But the penalty is basically saying you got admitted killing but only getting a month of prison time. Totally Insane, sad for me seeing this happen as how much I love mercedes.
@@kamajayasantano2022 that's an utterly bizarre take on it and one without an ounce of logic in
I am surprised how calm the comments under this video are so far. It seems like the raging kids havent found your channel yet
Ikr. A nice change from the comment section on instagram lol
I'm here. I'm the raging kid.
some channels have community; others are just a venue
Set a good tone, and people stick to it.
Raging kids either don't bother with this channel (which is good for us tbh)
Or this channel changes the view of the raging kid and coverts him into a rational kid(which is great)
scale penalties to the corner love the concept
I'm not so sure. I understand where he's coming from and I wouldn't be mad if it did come into force but It effectively means some corners are worth more than others.
In the case of copse, I think it's actually one of the best places on the track to make an overtake and you look like an absolute hero if you pull it off. (I am not buying Horner's thing about you don't make a move at copse) But if the driver knows that making a move there could result in a bigger penalty, then they won't risk it.
Yes we have DRS but I personally want to see overtakes that make my jaw drop. And if you take this to the extreme it means that drivers may only risk moves on that DRS straight followed potentially by not risking overtaking at all. I know that this would never happen but I'm not sure this is the absolute best solution.
@@joeogle7729 Drivers would still try to overtake there, just keeping in mind that trying something dangerous will be penalised harshly. Clean overtake or no overtake
He moved under braking and tapped max. I think it should have been a 10s + 10s for both actions. Just a racing incident. But what I didn't like are the fans who were cheering at the incident like that
@@joeogle7729 You're misrepresenting what Horner said. He said you never stick a front wheel on the inside at Copse, not you don't make a move.
@@dominic.m.i. They weren’t cheering it. They cheered Lewis getting ahead, and immediately stopped when Max ended up in the wall.
comments pretty civil so far. I appreciated the thought put into the analysis with consideration of past incidents and the precedent set by the stewards
comments tend to reflect the content of the video. This was a calm and balanced video and the comments seem to be reflecting that.
@@jsnsk101 you are right, man it is a calm video, which results in calm comments
I just want to say, Thank you so much for the subtitles!!!
First time watching the channel, great vid. Fair and balanced, I thought. Racing incident, and Horner's comments were OTT. Impressive to get such a thorough vid up within a few days. Nice!
I dont know youre an f1 fan. Wow.
I like it when my different UA-cam subscriptions watch each other.
It certainly has been a very loud few days on social media, not helped by some team bosses getting quite hyperbolic. I'm hoping this season doesn't turn sour, naively perhaps
@@chainbear I think it's exactly what Hornerwas always going to say as soon as Sky gave him the mic, he's right to feel aggrieved and it's fairly regular behaviour for team principles, it was irresponsible of Sky to give him the mic but drama is part of the F1 product now so Sky caved.
I hope that Max Verstappen loses the drivers championship thanks to this race so that we see Marko and Horner's face.
I think this is one of the best breakdowns I’ve seen of the incident. I agree with pretty much your entire chain of logic. Great job.
Yeah, me too. I still very much disagree with this being anywhere near a racing incident, but as Stuart says, that's subjective and depends on how broadly or narrowly you want to define the term 'racing incident'. In general I've hated the "who was at fault" videos about this crash from other creators, as this is one of the most one-sided incidents we've seen in recent F1 history, but Stuart does what he does best and actually answers that question, rather than having it there merely as a way to appease Hamilton fans who wish to deny he was to blame when he most definitely was.
This one and driver61 for me.
@@rjfaber1991 Dont think this was as clearly one sided as you say. Though it was mostly Hamilton’s fault undoubtedly, it’s hard to say it is one of the most one sided in recent history when realistically he is obviously trying to overtake him and is just slightly negligent. I don’t think it’s just Lewis fans who can see this angle. And moreover, the penalty was fair - its impossible to retrospectively say in hindsight how little it punished him
@@suckieduckie Driver 61 smashes it - the video needs more recognition
@@nezlo9612 I used to love him, but now it seems as if he's just saying his opinion rather than stating facts.
Since the turn 9 incident happened THIS is the analysis I was waiting for!
As soon as it happened I thought "that's going to make a good Chain Bear video" ☺
@@ApothecaryTerry I knew you was going to be one, took him longer than the others but it's clear that he did the research, none of the other guys mentioned that max made the turn in twice for example , I think this fact made the penalty Hamilton received lesser then it coulda been,
I still see it as a racing incident but I put it as Hamilton more at fault,
The important thing is max is ok
exaclyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
I’ve always told my friends that I rely on Chain Bear for the most reasoned and unbiased takes and you keep proving me right time and again.
Thank you for all your work. Excellent analysis once again.
He's British. What do you expect?
Me too. I don't have an opinion on the racing events, before watching Chain Bear or Driver 61
@victor5949 Yeah brittish are known that 🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂
100% agree, racing incident slightly skewed towards being Hamilton's fault.
Nah.
What Max did, was respecting peer racers on track to avoid bumping into them. On the contrary, Lewis did the opposite, he didn't slow down, despite being behind and on the wrong line going in the turn, which is a F1 rule, clear and simple. This incident clearly showed the bastard mindset of Lewis and to drop deep down to earn crucial points in the championship, consequently, leading Max a DNF, which the Mercedes crew categorically said in there pre-race statement.
@@adityaanand1337 Hamilton is significantly alongside Max at corner entry and if you actually watch the onboard you have hear Hamilton decelerate, I have no clue how you've come to those conclusions
@@danielo7985 Well he didn't watched the video probably. They making new rules for defending max it's interesting.
@@adityaanand1337 "What Max did, was respecting peer racers on track to avoid bumping into them."
When has Max EVER done this?
Finally, someone bringing up the fact that penalties are based on incident and not aftermath.
Difficult to argue that F1 has consistently done that, seeing as Grosjean's 2012 incident as Spa was really rather minor in and off itself, but he got hammered with a straight race ban because of the aftermath. In recent times though, it definitely seems as though they have toned that down significantly, and in my opinion gone too far with it. I think consequences should never matter in the decision whether a driver was guilty of a rules breach or not, but they absolutely should matter in the severity of the penalty given.
The aftermath should play a small part. It shouldn't be everything, but we need to understand that the same action under different circumstances can lead to wildly different consequences.
If a driver taps another car in a slow corner(and sends the other car offtrack) and the victim car just drives through the grass a little before returning, sure give the offender a small penalty.
But if the same exact action is done in a fast corner and the victim car was sent crashing into a wall at high speeds, the small penalty from before doesn't make sense.
@@junsengjsSo are suggesting that if the consequences of this collision had been, say, both cars with wheel damage allowing Charles LeClerk to pass them both, but otherwise no real damage, then the penalty should have been different? Surely the penalty should be solely for the incident, irrespective of the outcome?
That's a nice take to it, very smart.....we'll have a Piquet Singapore situation at each race then
@@saxon-mt5by
There is something to be said for just punishing the mistake on it's severity itself, yes!
But outcomes can be wildly different, and tracks and corners are as well. The contact between Lewis and Max was minimal. In the Monaco hairpin this would be nothing to talk about, at Copse it was crazy dangerous.
Having seen most of the analyses of the Max/Hamilton accident this one is by miles the best!
Literally every analyses I've seen, is the same thing. Both could've given each other more space. But if you have to blame someone, it's Hamilton.
@@MossPalone exactly. Hamilton caused it, but is not fully at fault. Whether you want to consider it a racing incident or not is pretty much down to personal opinion about what fault division warrants calling it a racing incident
Yup no one did the penalty analysis but he did and FIA's decision is the right.
@@barbonson_richards Hamilton should not have been there, he should have been at the apex. Just a simple fault that can happen...
...The problem is Hamilton not admitting that he is wrong this time.
@@PieterPatrick I agree. Hamilton is definitely predominantly at fault and therefore in a perfectly fair world should therefore get the predominant punishment (Although luck can make a lot of things unfair). Considering verstappen was punished by the crash itself to DNF (out of hands of the stewards though obviously), but considering the circumstances I think hamilton should at least have been given a drive through penalty. The main problem lies with the types of punishments available imo, a 10s time penalty means much less to a merc than to a midfield car for example. It's just (another) example of hamilton's godlike luck.
The animation was a joy to watch and made the analysis so much better! Hats off to you for all the hard work!
This vid basically sums up how I feel, I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way and now I can show WHY I feel this way with something visual!
The best executed and most thought out take I’ve seen yet! Instead of just trying to be the first video out, @chain bear takes the time to get his take right. Great work!!
Just wish the whole thing didn’t happen, wanna see these two race!
True but also this adds to the narrative. It makes future close racing behind them even more loaded with tension. Imagine a last round decider and they’re duking it out like this! It’s incredible actually.
I really hope next year the new cars don’t change the landscape too much, I want to see these amazing drivers fighting for years to come as close as this.
True! Would have been a green race.
True I think if they survived there is a higher chance Max winning. But will be very close. Just like French GP
@@DavidHunter Well yes, but I hate everyone who disagrees with me now.
Then lap 1 crashes are what your gunna get
I'm still team "It was all Hamiltons fault" but I'm definitely not "he was trying to kill Max. He deserved a drive thru, if not a stop/go. But those penalties seemingly don't exist anymore....except post race for Alonso I guess..
The second turn in from Verstappen is different from Schumacher’s one. The slight hesitation of steering positioned him just wide enough to give Hamilton a car width, and then came the second turn in to follow the corner naturally. This is evident on the onboards as Verstappen manage the gap to his right unlike Schumacher when he literally closed that gap
Also to everyone saying Verstappen should have backed out because he was ‘the aggressive one all season’:
You never consider the context behind a incident. The incident at silverstone was clearly Hamilton’s mistake. End of discussion.
About the context though in which this case Verstappen taking his line at Imola and Spain. That was a harsh move from Verstappen and I think the stewards should stop those from happening. But they have repeatedly deemed it legal which is why Most of the drivers do that including Verstappen. The ‘leagal’ thing I mentioned is leaving no room when you are more than half a car ahead. If Hamilton was more than half a car ahead, there would be no complaints about him taking his line at copse. But what actually happened was the opposite. Verstappen was half a car ahead. So what was the point again?
Obv, it wasn't as heinous as Stuart said
The issue imo is that Copse is a late apex corner (not the green paint, the 2nd Red bump on the inside of the black and white kerbing is the Apex).
From what I see, Hamilton could've made the actual Apex but as Max isnt expecting Lewis to contest the corner he doesnt give him enough room on corner entry initially (thus you see him turn out of the corner [straighten up his wheel]).
The only way an accident is avoided is if Hamilton HUGS the inside of the corner(not simply hit the Apex, I mean hug it throughout entry to Apex) and doesnt understeer into Max's path but he has taken too much speed to do that. He's expected Max to back out too
I put more blame on Lewis because he initiates contact but I would call it a racing "Inshident" like Leclerc Alonso etc
Edit: I think I disagree with myself here (that being I think it's a Hamilton penalty instead of just a racing incident) my new thoughts are below
@@danielo7985 I agree and this is part of the reason I say 50:50. Also I almost put more blame on verstappen given how he has driven this year. They would have already crashed like 5x if Hamilton wasn’t anticipating verstappens blind aggression and taking steps to avoid contact. Max has had this coming for a long time. If you never ever give up the racing line no matter what the circumstance then how can someone pass you without this happening.
I agree. The angle and line which Verstappen took after the adjustment would have given Hamilton room on the inside of the corner and afterwards if Hamilton had actually made the apex. This is ultimately where I put the blame IMO. The inside car understeered into the other and caused the collision despite the other giving the racing room on their inside.
This is pure bollocks.
Great Vid Stuart. A lot of people could learn by watching this.
@Lafayette Ron Hubbard.
Very level headed and absolutely spot on assessment. Those viewing it differently I feel are far too blinded by their fandom of one driver over another to see the woods for the trees here. I love these videos. They need to get your assessments on something like Sky F1.
20 or 15 years ago it would have been a racing incident !
But with data we see what looks like Hamilton intentionally wrecked Verstappen potentially killing him
It would be interesting to have part of the video playing the animation of the crash in 'real-life time' instead of only the slow-mo to illustrate how little time the drivers have to make a decision.
True, but keep in mind that drivers build their entire career on making quick decisions. For us a fraction of a second is nothing, for them it's enough time to react in most situations.
Can't wait to see your analysis on the crash they'll have in Hungary, providing Max doesn't get a PU or gearbox penalty.
Hopefully he doesn’t get a penalty. Since he DNF’d they can change the gearbox with no penalty and Honda thinks they can salvage this engine. I am loving watching them go wheel to wheel each race so it would be a shame if one of them had to start from the back.
Can you not?
@@colemadonna6284 They can use 3 PUs a year, so chances are they'll put in the 3rd one and in Spa or Monza put in a 4th and take a penalty there. The energy store has a G-load limit and it was exceeded in the crash. That's likely gone so he'll need a 3rd energy store to complete the season which will be a penalty. The turbo might have been damaged too with the g-force at full rpm.
@@Huberman1234 I wonder if nothing similar happened on Bottas car on Imola
@@Huberman1234 No allowances in the rules for an engine being written off in such a large shunt?
I was waiting for you to post this! Thank you for your insights. Regardless of who was to blame, the championship is gonna be spicier!
Two top drivers making split second decisions and trying to run their own race. Fault leans towards Hamilton but it's very much just a result of hard wheel-to-wheel racing, which is what F1 fans are always clammering for.
But there was no wheel-to-wheel… 🤷🏽♂️
@@PVilarnovo Did you watch the video?
Wheel-to-wheel meaning front wheel to back wheel? To me, the driver overtaking always has more responsibility, providing he doesn't get shut down.
@@howdareyou41 when we say “wheel to wheel” we mean front wheel with front wheel. Not front wheel hitting another’s rear wheel. Capice?
It wasn't a moment decision though. Hamilton knew far too well that he couldn't overtake in that corner, he went for it anyway. This was just desperate.
My thing with all of this discussion is, and as you mentioned at 4:17, is that Lewis at the speed he was he could never stay on the right side even if Max would give him a bit space, it's impossible, so they would crush anyway. Or Lewis had to be first entering in the corner, that was not the case, or he had to brake, like he did with Charles, just before he took him. Well, my opinion is that Lewis had a cheap move, knowing that he had to pass him quickly otherwise it would be like Saturday, and Lewis couldn't accept it to lose in silverstone.
Mercedes and Lewis were feeling the pressure due to how many point Max was ahead by Lewis said so before the race, from what I've seen if Lewis broke sooner and held his line he wouldn't have hit Max, Max held his line the whole time Lewis broke his line and went left a little hit Max's back tire and that's what caused the accident, I know Toto Mercedes and Lewis tried to argue that Max didn't give him enough space based on this and the footage I've seen it was more the fact Lewis had too much speed going into the corner and had to widen his turn and it was almost like he didn't know how close Max was and hit him.
Hamilton backed out for Norris and Leclerc. Every other lap Hamilton was 3 meters more to the right, in years before and years after. Hamilton deliberately crashed into Verstappen almost killing him. 🤮Hamilton is the dirtiest driver out there.
@@pmvdmeulen Oh come on, this is so painfully ignorant. No driver would ever intentionally crash into someone at that kind of speed - especially after the heart-breaking incidents we have seen in recent years. I agree it is mainly Lewis' fault, but I'd say it was 65% Lewis, 35% Max to blame. I don't think the move was 'cheap', he genuinely had a lot of momentum and couldn't just back out after being alongside.
@McCormick0166 you're probably english... the rest of the world knows it was 100% Hamilton's "fault". Very strange that his line in every other lap on Silverstone ever was far far more to the right.
@@pmvdmeulen I am English and of course I have my biases. But I also know how to put those biases aside. There's absolutely no way that was '100% Hamilton's fault' - when Max turned in so sharply (as seen in his onboard). I totally agree that the incident was mainly Lewis' fault and the penalty was deserved, since he missed the apex. But, Max has a tendancy to not leave a lot of space, and he could have been a bit more generous. I'm guessing you also think Monza T1 is Lewis' fault...
Finally sanity has prevailed. Thank goodness.
I’ve been so anxiously awaiting Chain Bear’s analysis since Sunday. High quality as expected!
This was the video I was looking for and I got it
Share it to the Lewis fan base
Right or wrong, you have created a really fine animation and explanation of what happened. Look forward to future works and I am so SUBSCRIBED.
Finally, a neutral look.
You ever watch “The Race”. They have good analysis too.
@@jbarber1016 whatt??? Have you seen their driver ratings? The race is dogshit
I found Driver 61 did some good analysis from a driver's pov
There's been a fair few neutral looks by now that have been discarded by the frothing legions as biased. For example, check out Palmer's analysis on the F1 channel.
@@cameronski77 That's what I wanted to mention too. Great video
F1 platforms ranking by how civil the comment section:
8. Instagram F1 account (1/10 civil)
7. UA-cam Formula World channel (2/10 civil)
6. UA-cam The Race channel (3/10 civil)
5. Instagram WTF1 account (5/10 civil)
4. UA-cam F1 channel (6/10 civil)
3. UA-cam Skysports F1 channel (7/10 civil)
2. UA-cam WTF1 channel (8/10 civil)
1. UA-cam Chain Bear channel (10/10 civil)
If you really want to look into a bear pit, go to the Autosport Forum; old-school tantrums and bitching between fans of Lewis and Max. At best, 0.005% civil.
That's because there is way less British bias in the analysis. If I see Buxton and his sidekick's HAM apologetics in their so-called "analysis", I have to barf spontaneously...
Look at Reddit: they technically are civil cause they don't argue much more, but they are split in 2 reddit communities: r/Lewis Hamilton which is completely biased towards ham and r/ formuladank, which should be neutral but are max biased... The two communities just throw shit at each other. Overall rating: 0.1/10
I should unsubscribes the rest and keep chainbear channel only.. I tot all fans in F1 is toxic.. until now..
@@edbackhuis5306 driver 61 had almost identical analysis with chainbear.. but those max fans still think he is British therefore side ham.. 🤷🏼♂️ I don’t get it then..
This video should be mandatory viewing before making a comment on the incident on social media. If anyone watches this and still has the absurd view that Hamilton someone did this on purpose or with malicious intent, you seriously need to find a new sport to watch.
He didn’t do it on purpose but he also didn’t care if they crashed...
This is exactly the same thing I say if you genuinely believe Ham did this on purpose watch another sport - like netball.
He didnt care if they crashed? A small touch in such a speed could have easily crashed both of them and Ham is 33 points behind. No driver would risk a crash at that speed. It was an accident as they were both pushing hard.
You need to remember that this is open wheel car, they have no ability to do even a small contact without risking severe damage to their own car.
@@saivikas9580 as a max fan i agree with you that Lewis wasn't intentional but the penalty wasn't quite right i thought. Lets say max was winning the world championship by 27 points at the penultimate race and Lewis was leading the race, a 10 second penalty to stop Max sending it on the inside and risking both cars going out isn't a big enough deterrent
I would have liked to see you analyze the steering wheel motions of Hamilton as you did for Max.
Concidering Hamilton missed the apex by a good 3/4 of a car width because of front end wash out his imputs would be dealing with that. There is no way he could have turned in tighteras he would have lost the car. Hamilton just missed the corner period and was carrying to much speed , his only option was to hit Max and pray he could keep it on the track.
Max gave Hamilton the apex by 1 and 3/4 car widths which was plenty of space. Max was an innocent bystander to Hamilton's colossal error and payed for it.
Maxes sterring imput was for one purpose and one purpose only, to make more room for Hamilton by missing the apex of the corner even more it was not a turn in on Hamilton like some leople suggest. The contact was no by Max turning in but by Hamilton's front end giving up and washing out. Hamilton was just going to fast.
This was pure desperation on Hamilton's part as he knew that if Max got through the corner in the lead it was all iver barring an unforseen breakdown or mistake by Max. The fact that Hamilton got a slap on the wrist will only give Hamilton more license to try this type of crap.
@@thearsenalmisfit2414 Agreed. Well said. Very desperate move from a 7 WDC
@@thearsenalmisfit2414 very well said my friend. Hits the nail on the head.
That probably would have made Hamilton look bad. And with some other choice language in the video I think he was trying to avoid that.
Hamilton never unwound the steering wheel during the turn. There wasn’t much to analyze
really neutral and informational analysis. thank you for making this
the only thing about this that leaves a bad taste in my mouth is that HAM and VER are so much quicker than the rest of the field, so you can just take out your title rival (I don't think HAM did it on purpose tho) take the penlaty and still win the race
Edit - i could see instead of a time penalty then a post race place penalty, so a 3 place penalty. So in a title race you lose a max of 13 points to your rival instead of a max of 26 points
That's why a 10 sec penalty is such a joke. It just tells the drivers of you are desperate for points just put your rival in the hospital.
Yeah but chances are if you are in this situation, your race is also usually over to. It really isn't the problem people think it is.
I'm afraid this might actually happen, for 2 penalty points, each has 5 races to understeer into the rival and basically get a free win, this season could become really dangerous
@@mralireza931 I've seen so many people like you parroting Horner's line about sending max to hospital (he wasn't injured btw, it was a precautionary check)
Shows how effective Horner is at manipulating the narrative
@@mralireza931 What kind of shitty take is that? Aggressive driving is now labelled as 'putting your rival in hospital' because another driver had to go to the hospital for a routine checkup after a crash? The 10-second penalty was fair and justified, it was a racing incident, but Hamilton is mostly to blame for it. Stop spouting bullshit over the internet you look stupid.
I’ve been waiting for your video on this incident and wasn’t disappointed. A balanced and thoughtful discussion as expected. I do tend towards the to lenient camp and think Hamilton should have received at least a drive through mainly because of the higher danger involved at that part of the circuit.
I also question if there is a need for a rule change so as not to penalise a driver who loses an engine as a result of an incident like this. As it stands, Verstapen has been severely penalised in losing all the points for the race and probable penalties later in the season when he suffers equipment failure. Such outcomes could encourage professional fouls. To be clear, I do not think that Ham committed such on this occasion, I just think he over cooked it in his desperation to gain track position while he still and the opportunity to do so.
Other rules that should change are under red flag repairs can only be done in the pit lane meaning when the race resumes you have to start from the pit lane. You would think twice if a risky move puts you back and you have to drive through the field.
10 sec penalty at your pit stop is weak and should be enforced within 3 laps instead. Why let it all space out so there is no impact? May as well skip it all together then.
Lastly I know it is a dollars and cents thing and they are just being cheap but why don't they bring back the backup cars? Used to love the aggressive first lap moves that lead to crashes followed by everyone running for their backup cars while the track is cleared. (Yes Max fans I know it would not help when he was in no shape to run for the backup car but in plenty of other races it would make a difference)
@@Jack-up2cf I dunno about the 10 sec thing, I mean, it's basically adding 10 seconds to your time when they do it post-race, so they shouldn't force them to also take another pitstop. Otherwise it just becomes a 10 second stop-and-go penalty
@@ruthswann88 then it should just be stop and go :)
@@ruthswann88 another??it was his planned stop
@@Jack-up2cf The only sense I hear backup cars used is where Nascar teams bring one to a track in case of practice going badly. If they wreck in the race, they wreck and can't get the spare car out of the hauler.
Still, yeah, given that they'd have to effectively double some of their costs, I don't see the backup car idea going too far.
Clear Hamiltons fault. He never gonna made the apex and more importantly he did not have his car under control since he understeered to Verstapen. This incident had serios impact on rest of the season and his unability to accept his mistake (he never appologize that he almost killed Max) paid him at Abu Dhabi. Karma always wins.
and dont forget this corner is one of the quickiest of the chamipionship, there is no place for such a recklesness.
No rules stats to make the Apex. Don't make up rules
I think the main point is that Verstappen DID leave space for Hamilton on the inside. Just look at Leclerc's trajectory a few meters behind, he could easily fit in there while being at safe distance from Max. Whether or not Hamilton was able or wanting to fit into that space doesn't change the fact that Max left the space, which is all one could ask of him. It would be unreasonable to say that Verstappen should have gone even further left because Hamilton understeered or something like that.
Exactly. Leaving a space is the only thing the defending driver is obliged to do; it's on the attacking driver to prevent a crash.
Verstappen expected Hamilton to brake hard and give space when he(max) turned his steering wheel inside, just like at Spain earlier this year. But Hamilton did not budge this time. And Hamilton expected max not to turn into him any further cuz why would anyone in their right mind turn into the path of another car? But max did it anyways and tasted the result of that.
@@rjfaber1991 I think in the rulebook, there is a rule stating that as long as the atking driver is substantially alongside( defined as more than half a car length next to the defending car) , he will have the right to his path. If you observe closely, till after the entry to the turn at copse, lewis front wing was next to max's front wheel, which satisfys the rule book. Based on that, lewis did nothing wrong , which is why lewis was penalized on a different rule instead.
@@SongShiyu Except, if you let the video play through, you'll find that as soon as they cleared the braking point and headed for the apex, Lewis was no longer significantly alongside and should have yielded the corner. Also, Lewis was literally penalized for _not_ avoiding contact.
@@SongShiyu The rule book doesn't say that, and for a pretty obvious reason; allowing the attacking driver their line as long as they are significantly alongside means that either a) the defending driver has to yield at the slightest hint that their line and that of the attacking driver might cross, thus making overtaking more a matter of putting your car in an unnatural and potentially dangerous position than about actually getting past, or b) both have an equal right to their line, in which case there will be a crash every time those lines happen to cross.
The 'significantly alongside' has to do with leaving space, which Verstappen was obliged to do with Hamilton significantly alongside him. However, that is also exactly what Verstappen did; in fact he gave Hamilton about twice as much space as he actually had to.
Great analysis!
Also: "Ultimately, if you ruin someone's race because of a mistake, and you're able to come back to a place ahead of the other person, that penalty doesn't outweigh your mistake. You shouldn't be able to finish ahead of the other person if you take them out of the race" - Lewis Hamilton, 2018
Here a quote for you"fark off you troll" niuean3000 2021
Boi I hope this doesn't contradict my pre-existing bias
it'd be a real shame
Did the vid do that?
there are no bias in the video tho
Well.. XD
@@RandomVideos-re9ux that's why I loved it and every video from him
I’ve watched a lot of analysis on this incident being fairly new to the intricacies of F1 and I really like your take on it. I think your point regarding penalties matching the risk is extremely pertinent here and a drive through would have been the correct outcome.
Matching the risk??? Had Verstappen hit the wall that hard in the 80s cars, he'd have died or been maimed. Hell, without the halo he might have got a head or neck injury from the tire barrier. Disturbing that the modern barrier material doesn't extend far enough to catch this crash.
@@mikewagenbach1787 certainly seems like with barrier safety the FIA are more reactive than proactive in certain areas. Grosjean’s crash last year shows how well certain things work but others need massive improvement. Pretty sure Kyvat crashed at the first Silverstone GP last year then an extension was added to the kerb in the same area too.
Wrt the barrier at Copse, maybe this is further evidence that points to Lewis being “at fault” than “predominately at fault”. With the size of the cars now, that’s a square peg into a round hole trying to make that manoeuvre there causing Max to take a trajectory no one had predicted. Will be interesting to see how this weekend plays out.
if anyone thinks this is a binary situation 1 is 100% at fault, i urge them to go drive a decently powered gokart and try and get a decent time lap. And pay attention how precise you can really drive when you're doing fast cornes. It's not that easy to punish such incidents because this is a fight for the championship and both of them are on the limit. If we want a tight fight, there will be incidents like this. But unless you want a boring season, where everyone is driving on rails, i suggest you don't complain too much. i think this was fantastic racing.
I mean, last season everyone wanted a no holds barred, all out fight on track, and now we're getting it. People should expect this things to happen. When 2 aggressive and stubborn drivers give and take as much as Max & Lewis did, something or someone has to give. It's just unfortunate that Max was the one that paid for the tussle. Would've made for an interesting race. I personally see it as a racing incident, with most blame to Lewis because of the boneheaded attempt he did. He didn't mean to wipe out Max, but nonetheless its boneheaded.
very well said!
Except Hamilton perfectly held his line later on, going even faster on older tyres. So your point is totally moot. But even if you accept your story, then Hamilton should never have put his car there. Honestly people defending this divebomb are delusional.
Well we expect for you to say the same thing when Vrymilton hits the wall.
@@Mik1604 Exactly, Crymilton took the apex with Charles. He just did the "pit" maneuver a la LAPD on Verstapen Killmilton can't handle Max anymore and he knows it.
This was an amazing insight to the incident, thank you.
Regardless of how you see this incident I’m glad it happened now and now in Race 22 with both drivers on almost equal points. It’s already a shit show as is, imagine if this was at the end of the season…
Max fans wouldn't be as mad if Silverstone was the end of the season. It would mean he won the championship. This really puts the sticks to team Red Bull if the engine was damaged. You only get 3 all season. This was a nearly new engine, so he could be down to just 1 more to last the remainder of 21. It's a tough break for Verstappen and Red Bull if that engine cant be fixed. And then the budgets in place for 21. It could get really bad for them after this. We will just have to see.
@@michaelseymour6313 Dont worry Redbull will offer one of the other 3 cars to tip out Lewis the comming races...
@@datbestaatnietbestaatniet9086 I hope not. I like fair racing.
this aged well
no need to imagine, brethren
Loooove these videos. So good. Fantastic closer music too - don't ever change this!
Chain Bear, I'd love to see your explanation on comparing this overtake opportunity Vs Barcelona turn 1 where Verstappen missed the apex of the corner, just dived up the inside hitting Hamiltons car wide and forcing his way through. In that situation he didn't get a penalty or even investigated yet it's basically the same as the incident into copse the only difference's being it was the other way around and Hamilton didn't get flung into a wall.
That one should have been a penalty for Verstappen imo, quite clearly. The driver overtaking has the responsibility not to make contact, given he does not get cut off.
that's a yikes from me my man
You're comparing two incidents that have nothing in common. Just be thankful Lewis's desperate driving didn't cost him or anyone else physical injuries.
Exactly. People are allowing the speed and outcome to effect their opinions. Unless the idea of changing the severity of the penailties based on the corner comes into effect they have to be seen as very similar incidents.
@@mralireza931 Basically every current driver, every team manager (Except Red Bull & Alpha Tauri) have said that it was just hard racing where neither driver yielded, a few put more blame on Hamilton than Verstappen but one thing they all agreed on is that it was a racing incident.
Explain how they do not have anything in common.
1. Driver attempting the overtake decided to try on the inside of a corner
2. Driver attempting the overtake went in too hot
3. Driver attempting the overtake missed the apex of the corner
4. Driver attempting the overtake made contact with the other driver
5. Driver attempting the overtake succeeded in gaining a position
6. Driver attempting the overtake ultimately forced the other driver wide/off the track
Differences:
1. Hamilton didn't go flying off into the wall.
2. Hamilton didn't have to retire from the race.
3. The speed was slower.
4. There was arguably a lot more intent with the Barcelona incident.
Both incidents are equally as bad as each other, you don't (shouldn't) penalize based on the outcome of an incident rather you penalize on the incident itself!
If Hamilton had gone off into the wall or had a tyre/suspension failure in Barcelona then I can guarantee Verstappen would have received the same sort of penalty. Likewise if Verstappen had just ran a tiny bit wide and came back on behind/beside Hamilton in Copse I highly doubt any penalty would have been applied.
It was wrong to penalize Hamilton this weekend, especially when no penalty was applied to Verstappen in Barcelona. Both incidents are were racing incidents and hard racing so in both cases neither driver deserved a penalty in my opinion.
Incident aside, how good is this year, finally a fight!
For sure! I've enjoyed the midfield the last couple of years but it doesn't compare to a title fight. It's been ages.
This is why I don't have any interest in following F1. Dominated by 2 to 3 teams with ALL the money and advantage, and then "everyone else". Add to that the other particulars of the series that make passing a rare thing, and it's just... boring.
I watch Chainbear because I like hearing about the particulars; rules, regulations, penalty evaluation, technology advancements and changes, etc. But when 80% of podium finishes are gotten by only two teams because they have the most money... that's not a race, that's a fashion show.
Sebs short fight for the title in I think 2018 didn't come close. Back then it was either a superior Ferrari or a superior Merc depending on the track, not both cars fighting together on the same track, at least not as much as now.
Its not good, its ham seconds ahead or ver seconds ahead. And all the luck in the world for Ham so far
@@IstasPumaNevada You say you have no interest in following F1, yet here you are, watching an incident review video from an F1 race 🤦♂️
I must say I’m very concerned by the recent move towards softer penalties for collisions in recent years. It puts e.g. marginally crossing the white line on a par with crashing into another driver. I’d want to see at least a drive through for causing a collision and a stop-go for particularly careless or dangerous moves.
I don’t think the penalties are getting softer I think the driving is getting cleaner
This would be like giving a red card in football for a minor foul
Couldn't agree more.
But also keep in mind that crossing a white line (Tsunoda) is easier to not violate. So maybe violating a rule like that should be punished hard. Just a thought, what do you think?
While I don't disagree with the sentiment (safety first) you do risk turning a series where it is already difficult to overtake because of the nature of the cars into one where it is almost impossible because of the added risk of penalties. Also while I don't want to belittle the risks involved it has to be noted that aside from 2 freak accidents there haven't been many injuries as the results of crashes (even less if purely looking at driver/driver incidents rather than mechanical failure or driver error) in the last 20yrs so discouraging drivers from taking risks might seem counterproductive to the sport, the cars and circuits are very well designed to mitigate the risk of accidents when they do happen.
(Please don't take this as "they knew the risks when they became racing drivers" viewpoint or a desire to return to the live-fast-die-young attitude of the pre 70's. I don't believe there should be excess risk involved and I have no desire to see anyone get hurt but we must accept an inherent level of risk involved in all motorsport and ythis is part of its appeal. I am proud of all those who have made the sport as safe as it is today through sacrifice, campaigning, science and technology.)
What an excellent video, this is so good! Great job!
This is the first video about this topic I agree with to be honest. I found it rather difficult to watch any of the Sky Sports coverage because of how clearly biased they were towards Hamilton, with pretty much everyone except Jenson Button saying it should have been an unpenalised racing incident.
But I also can't get over my own bias and see it purely objectively because I would really, really like Max to win the Drivers' Championship rather than Lewis. I have emotional stakes in my take so I can't view it as an outsider.
This video worked for me. No, Lewis was probably never going to make that move stick, it was uncharacteristically desperate, he was never going to be in front of Max. But they are fighting for a Championship and neither intended on giving the other any breathing space.
The final take of "I wouldn't be opposed to penalties getting scaled with the danger of a corner" will be my agreed takeaway.
And hats off to having a go at doing this video! Very brave!
Im in the same boat as you. I dont blame Lewis for going for the move but when it does go wrong and it did be a man and own up to it
Well, Sky is covering the British marked, so a little biased views aren't that suprising.
Guess what the views of the Dutch broadcaster was 😀
I'm a Lewis fan but I couldn't stand the F1 or Sky coverage. Lewis was clearly in the wrong, not by the absurd amount some of Max's fans seem to think but if you hit the other drivers rear wheel with your front then it's your fault really. I think it's fair he got a penalty and at the time I expected it to be either 10 seconds or a drive though with a drive through being a bit harsh and 10 seconds being a bit light. Honestly they need to be more willing to use things like 15 second and 20 second penalties so there can be a bit more flexibility in the penalties.
After Monza, it’s time for a Part 2
Hamilton takes the risk into the corner more so than Max does. Max is not backing out, but allows Lewis ample space. Lewis misses the apex which would have ended with him off the track at the exit of the corner, whether Max was there or not. Watch Lewis' onboard to see the line he chooses. He is either hitting Max or forcing him off the track at the exit of the corner.
As the driver coming from behind on the inside, it is Lewis responsibility to make the move safely. If it cannot be accomplished safely, any collision falls into the responsibility of the attacking driver. This is providing they are allowed the necessary space from the defending driver. Max left the space, giving up on the apex, trusting Lewis to make the move safely. Lewis stays wide/understeers into Max, resulting in the accident as well as an enormous swing in the championship points.
It was all hamilton’s fault. It was his responsibility not to hit the driver on the outside and it was max’ responsibility to give Lewis room, which he did
Max already kills that precedent, falling victim to his own tactic
You managed to have a civilized comment section! Congratulations on the video and on the audience :D
I love your content and your views on F1, please keep it up!
Great analysis. I agree with everything youve said only that for me it wasnt in the racing incident spectrum anymore.
It’s interesting that Charles Leclerc was capable of driving through the same spot alongside Lewis without an accident. It really boils down to attitude.
Leclerc ended up outside of the track because of that though
It was actually Lewis who took another line much closer to the apex of the corner. Leclerc left less room for Hamilton then Max did...
Hamilton backed out for Norris and Leclerc. Every other lap Hamilton was 3 meters more to the right, in years before and years after. Hamilton deliberately crashed into Verstappen almost killing him. 🤮
You’re right. Hamilton and Max were racing each other super hard that season, and that was their attitude. They give more space to people who are smaller threats
Great video!! I always have trouble with the f1 punishments as their impact varies a lot, and they dont help the affected party. I know hamilton had no malicious intent but it feels like under current rules either verstappen or hamilton could take someone out and because of their significant better cars still always end up on the podium. It is hard to punish someone accordingly when they have such an advantage over the rest of the field. A 10 second penalty for Riccardo for example has far more consequences than for Hamilton. I don't know what should or could be done about it but it always troubles me
I absolutly would'nt be suprised if we have a similar talk in two weeks time
I actually HOPE we do. Lewis needs some karma.
@@rmx39 No he doesn't.
And Max will drive with more caution now because Red Bull are up against the budget cap after Max's car was completely totaled which has cost the team heavily.
Red Bull can't risk losing a car on back to back weeks now that F1 teams have a limited budget to work with.
@@xaviermalcolm8481 if a racing driver drives with caution, they wont be in a seat for long, because they will be running at the back.
@@CrewGuyPJ Well he is welcome him to total his car again and again and see how far Red Bull get this season when they've exhausted all of their remaining budget on re-building the entire car.
His choice.
Watched a stack of analysis videos already. Expect this to be the best.
it surely is!
British bias
@@jiujitsujedi Chain bear has no bias towards British drivers he always looks at the facts there are times when he hasn't defended Ham for his mistakes
@@NanaGlover The title did have me worried, since it seems only Brits are asking who's fault this crash was, while the entire rest of the world finds it bloody obvious that it was Hamilton's, but in fairness, Stuart did a great job on this one, and it was genuinely impartial.
I love how you broke it down ..This a beautiful channel and l have learnt a lot
You, sir, earned a new subscriber today.
I’m down with the idea of grading corners by difficulty and speed, maybe angle as well. Having a 3 level system. Level 1 would slow corners and go up accordingly
Maybe but we dont want to discurage racing to, its gonna be a fine balance. I honestly want close and risky racing and with how safe the cars are today (Verstappen just pulled 51 G without any major issues) i dont see why we should make it more costly for drivers to go for tough and risky moves
@@karleklof2049 totally get where you are coming from. Honestly me watching nascar then coming to f1 that crash was kinda light. I loved every bit of the battle.
honestly its good for the fans and the sport to see some tough racing
Well I'm glad someone made a balanced take on this. I think Hamilton is taking more chances now, since Verstappen is a calculating and ruthless driver, sometimes to a fault but it works for him.
But honestly, the way some Verstappen fans were talking about it, you'd think Hamilton tried to commit a murder or something, it's disgusting.
yea his fan’s reaction is rly not great
lol r/formula1 and r/formuladank in a nutshell
Wait till Crymilton hits the wall see how you react. I bet it will not be so calm it will happen you will not think it was an "incident" and you will definitely not put any blame on Crymilton. I can bet you on that.
And there we go again!
Yes sure some of Max his fans are trash, and when Lewis his fans where all beacons of wisdom you would have a point.
There is discusting behaviour out there, period. And it's not just coming from one side.
I just want to say how much I appreciate the level of attention to the animation and graphics. I watched every available camera angle of the crash and the moments running up to it, and this is perfectly recreated in this video. My compliments to Steward. I also came to the same conclusion as in this video. None of the drivers made a big mistake. The only mistakes Ham made, where split-second decisions, hard to blame him heavily.
It's is home circuit, he knows the dangers and he entered the corner 3 KMH faster than normal while on the slower inside line!. He damn well knows this was going to end in disaster. It was a move out of frustration.
@@10vingers Al the drivers asked how Verstappen was doing accept Hamilton, he was to busy celebrating his win knowing he pushed out Verstappen and was in the hospital at that time. It was the only way he could win and he succeeded.
@@teunio501 hamilton asked how verstappen was just right after hitting him.
Btw verstappen didnt ask once how was hamilton after monza's crash.
Im not pro ham or ver just saying facts
@@Mrbenslayer1994 very true
This was quite the racing incident, and he backed it up very well
Very nice video on this 👌
I like your comment about scaling penalties. This is exactly how I feel about it. Sending the other car on to the gravel is not the same as sending it into the barrier at 180 mph. We want more intense racing, not injured drivers or early retirements. And seriously, that battle was the most thrilling I've seen in a while, such a shame it ended so early. Appreciate the neutrality of the take btw, like many here, I've been waiting for this video since I saw the race. Cheers mate, looking forward to your next video!
I mostly agree, but there are two points that need to be considered.
1. Is there anything in the current rulebook about the speed of crash, etc? If not, I consider the point to be a 'bad take' for this weeks' incident, and should only have been discussed as something that might need to be changed in future. Chain Bear's analysis of the rules is normally more precise on these things. [I do not know the answer myself and would have liked to know].
2. Could the rule (change?) have the unintended effect that it is essentially stops wheel-to-wheel overtakes on certain parts of the track. Therefore, it puts us on a road to sanitizing F1 and removing these types of corner completely. Therefore, the rule would have to be very carefully written.
My current take is that Hamilton deserved the 10-second time penalty. As the way his mistake is judged an understeer that caused a crash. It certainly wasn't a dive bomb. Therefore, it fits with other penalties. However, if crash severity was taken into account the penalty should have been harsher.
You're a brave one wading into this mire...
@First last you are taking his comment too seriously my friend
@First last once again taking this way too seriously….
@First last Have a nice day freak
@First last Whatever you say freakboy
@First last Poor kid :( just too stupid for his own good :(
Mercedes: It was clearly Valterri's fault
It is. If Valtteri had more pace he could help Hamilton kill Verstappen. Lewis had to do it alone because his teammate wasn't there and he didn't deliver
- Toto
Also Mercedes probably: I think Ericsson hit us.
@@whatislife43 yes I heard Ericsson was there in person & watching from the stands, he waved to hamilton making him crash into verstappen!
Looking at this video’s Likes and Dislikes ratio and Formula One’s Channel Likes And Dislikes Ratio on this incident tells a lot about what people think about this incident.
Great Unbiased Video
One of the best analyze yet!!
I have been waiting for this one!
I fully agree that mistakes through Copse, 130R, Eau Rouge and other fast corners should be punished much heavier. Hitting someone at T4 in Austria, or the Monaco hairpin is going to (rightfully) annoy them at worst. This type of error into Copse can send them off in a bodybag
I don't think it's a bad idea, I personally want to see overtakes that make my jaw drop, and if a driver knows that making a move there will result in a bigger penalty then why risk it? And if you take it to it's absolute extreme why risk overtaking at all. I know that this would never happen because they're racing drivers but I'm not sure that's the complete solution that will plaster everything.
A pretty balanced take as always. I like your last point, I think it would be a good idea to take the danger of the corner into account when dishing out penalties.
I disagree. It would make drivers more cautious and in return wouldn't go for dangerous/aggressive moves anymore.
@@metro3313 guessing you've never met a racing driver! Penalties are not a thought during a race...
@@alan_davis Well you are wrong. If drivers know they will get harsher penalties if they do anything wrong on a dangerous corner they won't be making any moves in a dangerous corner.
It looks to me that Lewis deflected/steered Max off the circuit which is evident because Lewis ended up way over to the other side.
Lewis knew what he was doing and is extremely fortunate that Max wasn't killed or seriously injured, that's no exaggeration.
Celebrating like he did proves again that it was deliberate, he didn't care.
What are your thoughts on fixing the car under red flags being met with going to the back of the grid? Seems Lewis has benefited twice just out of luck from red flags that would've otherwise led to a DNF.
I always believed it would be better if repairs took place in pit lane and the car rejoins after the race has restarted - a team can always elect to stay out with a damaged car if it is safe to do so and fix it at a scheduled stop if they want to retain track position.
That could be an interesting rule, i don't even agree with changing tyres during red flags(except when mandated for safety reasons like Baku), so a drive through for making changes to the car during the red flag would be really nice
I like the concept but Lewis would not have dnf
When other drivers benefit from it no one bats an eye, but God forbid Lewis does.
@@ronanoboyle6348concept is gr8,so what if he didn't finish,more drama one way or another
Thanks, I was looking forwards to your analysis a lot! Very clear, and the racing lines visualized are great.
It would've been interesting to see the Hamilton vs Leclerc comparison to this too. From that overtake, we could see that Leclercs trajectory through the corner seemed identical to Max's, but he ultimately went a bit wide anyway. Aside from completely giving up the corner by lifting, I don't see how Max could've given more space (while still being competitive).
RB having more downforce than Ferrari could help, but we'll never know.
Leclerc was in worse car on shot tyres tho, whereas Verstappen had arguably the best handling car on the grid with fresh tyres on. No chance Verstappen would have ran wide like Leclerc did.
I agree
You're right. Leclerc and mad took almost identical racing lines. But its just that Leclerc was afraid of another incident and tried to give more space than he could and went wide. And LH since he was not under much pressure or being in a better car, just took the inside line along the apex.
So, instead of converging like on the first lap, they diverged.......if that makes any sense.
Max vs Lewis(lap 1) and Leclarc vs Lewis(lap 51) are not comparable because -
1. First one with full fuel load, 2nd one with almost empty tank.
2. 50 laps with 19 cars is enough to lay down rubbers in the corner affecting grip
3. Drivers choose their fight, so Leclarc was not in same mentality with Max fighting Lewis.
4. After seeing a 51G impact incident in that corner no driver in right mind want to be in the same position.
5. Leclarc had his own share of trouble with PU which made him cautious about power.
6. There are many other factors like driving style, risk-reward options, tire performance, downforce level etc.
Great video and insightful commentary. Up to now, the ‘rule’ has been “leave enough space on the inside”, which Max did. He was still clipped. Hamilton received the penalty. Clearly the stewards thought he was at fault.
The stewards said Hamilton was "predominately" at fault. I am guessing you know what this infers, and matches what is said in this video.
@@valour10
Well, yes. It infers that Hamilton was deemed mostly responsible for the crash and given a penalty. How is that different than anything I posted?
@@KBosch-xp2ut You worded it in such a way that it ignores that it takes two to tango.
Great video again, best take on the matter so far IMO 👍 end of season could become really awesome!
By the same concept,
2:04 - The first corner of the race, Lewis should be ahead, but Max goes off track and still comes from behind and would have collided but no one talks about it
3:10 - They were both along side (not that gap what the video is showing) and you can watch the race if you want to clear that out
Max and his fan kids wants to say he is aggressive cause he wants to win, but Lewis this whole year has avoided collisions on almost all race starts cause Max was too aggressive.
This is what happens when the other racer also acts aggressive like Max, doesn't end well. Hopefully both can take this and better themselves and have amazing race for the rest of the season. This season is epic. Can't miss one race, it can decide everything
Awesome awesome.... awesome animations. You have put exactly what I have been commenting for the last 5 days!!
Precisely!! - Both drivers knew what they are going for into that corner. And that's what qualifies for racing incident.
Both took the risk and unfortunately it didn't end well for one of them. That's it.
6:02 wasn't Russel's penalty in Silverstone? The graphic says all 4 penalties were in Austria.
It was
He literally says on the voiceover that Russell's was in the Silverstone sprint 🤦♂️
@@adamdickinson2894 Are you agreeing with me? Or Stuart?
@@MasterArkannor both of you