New V-Carve Inlay Toolpath Vs Tradition V-Carve Inlay | TK Designs
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
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Vectric has released it's newest versions of the V-Carve and Aspire software to version 12! This video delves into the details of the new V-Carve Inlay Toolpath available in VCarve Pro and Aspire Version 12.
Let's explore the intricacies of traditional v-carve inlays as performed in older versions of the software, versus the new v-carve inlay toolpath available in version 12.
Please let me know in the comments if you enjoyed this video, and if can, take the time to look at some of my other videos. Thanks again for watching as always!
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My favorite Bits:
SpeTool 5.2 degree .5mm radius Tapered Ballnose: amzn.to/3GnrdY0
Yonico 35310-SC 1/8" diameter 3 flute upcut endmill: amzn.to/3bEnlWW
Yonico 37310-SC Tapered Endmill: amzn.to/3Q8052A
Amana Tool 46280 1/64 Radius Tapered Ballnose: amzn.to/3gADMp7
Amana Tool 45611-K Tapered Endmill: amzn.to/3p6lnl2
SpeTool Down Cut 1/4" CNC Bit: amzn.to/3zGzOBi
My Former CNC (replaced with Shapeoko 5 Pro):
Sainsmart Genmitsu PROVerXL 4030 CNC: amzn.to/3P6yFZD
Sainsmart Genmitsu 24" x 24" (600x600mm) XY-Axis Extension: amzn.to/3zCJaOw
Sainsmart Genmitsu T-Slot 6060 Aluminum Spoilboard: amzn.to/3p2dRYt
I'm a newbie at the CNC but you helped out a lot😊😊 now I know what the program to get thank you I'm watching you and it's 3:00 in the morning
Thank you for your kind words! I stay up late all the time watching other creators on youtube, myself 😆😆😆 When I first started CNC, it took more than a year before things really started to click for me. A lot of reading, and watching other people explain how to do it. It's a journey that was well worth taking!
First of all, great breakdown, but having dove into this myself heavily have many questions/comments... 😃 I replied to your other video on it earlier before I figured things out, but this one is more relevant. "Time is money" is spot on, but in these cuts that 1/8" clearance bit and TBN should both easily go full depth instead of 4?! passes with the 1/8" bit and 2 or looked like 3 on the plug with the TBN. The TBN bit should cut the worst right at the tip just due to the challenges of putting an edge on such a tiny piece of metal, so using only the tip to cut is just not making use of it as it's only removing a tiny bit of material anyway. Even if I run my TBN (same bit) pass before the clearance passes so it's cutting a lot more material, it cuts perfectly at 1/4" depth. I'm running my 1/8" bit at 60 in/min at 1/4" depth (convert to funny numbers as needed...😉), though with an ATC I also have 1/4" and 1/2" clearance bits in the toolpath so the 1/8" does very little work. Would love to see you run that again with full depth or at least only 2 on the clearance bit and full depth on the TBN and watch the machining times plunge! Your VCarve Inlay path plug looked surprisingly clean at the bottom, if you zeroed it on the material there should be a ridge left by the "missing" tip of the bit that the program doesn't know is missing. That's what I was experiencing along with loose fitting plugs like so many others, but I did a lot of experimenting and found settings that made it work cleanly. I put a video on my own channel if you want to compare experiences with it. The only "downside" is the inlay is cut a tiny bit wider, I calculated .010 each side with this bit. If you had measured each pocket with a caliper at the same points the VCarve Inlay one should have measured slightly larger all around, but to me it's not going to be noticeable and certainly not enough to keep my from using the new toolpath when I upgraded to V12 just because of that.. 😁 One side benefit to it being a tiny bit large is it gives you more margin to surface off for glue that has seeped into the wood around the inlay. Thanks for the work you put into your videos to share info with others! Dan
I took a look at your video, and found it to be very helpful in showing me what you were experiencing. I commented further on your video itself with a few questions I had. I am all for working together as a community to see what we can come up with to improve! As far as the depth of cuts and feeds and speeds I typically used, they are based on my old CNC (SainSmart ProverXL), which doesn't have anywhere near the rigidity of my Shapeoko 5 pro.
I decided to give it a whirl going full depth, and found that I was able to do so with both the pocket and plug. I was pretty impressed with that! Ran the 1/8" ballnose at 60ipm/30ipm plunge, and the TBN at 50ipm/40ipm plunge. I'm gonna have to see if I can't do some real inlays with that speed.
I will have to comb through my comments, on the other video, as I did not see your other comment pop up in my comments tab in UA-cam Studio. Thanks for watching, and thanks for the helpful questions! Happy Carving!
EXCELLENT video and analysis of the new feature in V12. I have done a few V-carve inlays in V11 using a TBN bit and the results are extremely good. Can you share how you enter a TBN bit in V12. In version 11 I had to enter it as an engraving bit but entering it that way it never showed up as a selectable V-bit for the V-carve inlay.
Thanks for watching, and for your kind words. To use a TBN as a V-Bit, change it to the V-Bit designation, and change half or side angle to double. So for example, if you have 6.2 degree TBN, change the included angle to 12.4 degrees. That should do it. Please let me know if this helps.
Thank for doing this. I have been playing with it in the software. Have a good day
Thanks for watching. Happy V-Carving!
@@tk.designsI gave this a shot and it was left with very large gaps. 🤷♂️ not sure about this tool path vs the traditional way
Sorry to hear that. Can you give me more information about the carve you attempted? For example, what bit was used, how was the bit configured in the v-carve database, pocket depth, glue gap, etc...? You can reply here, or if you would like, you can go to my channel page, and send me an email with the details of your carve, and any picture you might have taken. I would be glad to take a look.
Female (walnut) start dep=0 flat dep=0.25 Glue gap .08 above 0.8. Male was Paduak. I would send the pictures but do not have FB, Instagram or tik tok. Sorry. Thank you for your time.
@@kevinrich4637 What bit are you using?
Looking fwd to trying it out!
Thanks for watching! I was definitely surprised how well it turned out.
What is your initial DOC in the traditional TP with the TBN BIT? I have been contemplating about upgrading from Vcarve 11 to the Vcarve Pro 12.
In a traditional TP, I go 0 start 6 mm flat depth on the pocket side, and do three toolpaths for the plug side. First toolpath is 1.0 start, 1.5 flat. Second toolpath is 3.5 and 1.5, and third toolpath is 5.5 and 1.5. All measurements in MM. I use multiple toolpaths on the plug side to avoid having the bit plunge all the way to the final flat depth (7mm, 5.5+1.5) a single cut. Remember, anything above the start depth, Vcarve assumes is material that has already been removed.
Great Video! I upgraded the other day, but haven't had a chance to test this. Would love to see a video of your full work flow with all your new "toys" like the ATC.
Thank you for your kind words! I Think the next video I do I can include the tool change process. Usually I just cut it out of the production, as I thought most people had already seen how the process works with Shapeoko CNCs.
I put this video out, because like anyone else, I would be skeptical of whether or not something new like this toolpath would work out of the box. I am glad you enjoyed the video!
I too am a fan of the new tool path. Sure simplifies the math etc.. My first test felt a little loose, but seemed to glue up fine. Did you cut it apart to check the glue gap or any fit issues?
What is, or where did you get the press? I would like to use one as clams don't always reach.
Well done, keep up the good work.
Thanks for watching! I didn't cut it apart, and there were no fitment issues when I put it together. I use a Harbor Freight 12 Ton Press, with about 4 inches thick of plywood on the bottom to give a flat surface for clamping, and about 1.5 inches to place on top to give even clamping pressure across my inlays. Thank you for your kind words!
Great video. What did you set the glue clearance and protrusion to in the V Carve inlay tool path? Couldn't read it on the screen. Looked like depth 5mm, glue gap 0.5mm, protrusion 0.5mm? Also, near the end when you revise you show a 5th toolpath "pocket ??????????? clearance" (can't read the centre bit). This wasn't on the original toolpath you cut. Is it essential? Thanks.
Thanks for watching! My settings are depth of 6mm, Glue Gap 0.5mm, and Surface Gap 1.5mm. You can adjust the surface gap upward if you use a band saw to clear the excess. Hope that helps!
My apologies, I just saw where you asked about pocket clearance toolpath. That toolpath is to clear the excess material from the inlay if you do not use a bandsaw to remove the top (where our surface gap is). I use a 1/4 inch endmill on a pocket toolpath with a 0.0 mm depth of cut. I set the Z-axis about 0.5mm above the surface of the material that has the inlay (not the top of the plug), and just let the side of the cutter cut away the excess material. It leaves a small amount on the surface, but it is easily cleared up with a little bit of sanding. Hope that helps!
Hi - very good video. I'm very new to CNC and want to try some inlay. I would be interested in knowing which bit you used to clean off the top of the pocket piece and how you setup the toolpath for that. Thanks!
I use a 1/4" downcut bit for doing the material clearance at the end. I place an offset around the inlay of about 10mm. The toolpath is a pocket tool path with a 0.0mm depth of cut. I set my Z-height to 0.5mm above the top of the material that holds the pocket, NOT the plug material that you will be removing. When you execute the toolpath, it will remove the material from side, and glide slightly above the surface material of the pocket side of the inlay.
I try to ensure that the excess material is less than 6mm in height, so as to remove the material without much stress to the bit. Hope this helps! Thanks for watching!
@@tk.designs Awesome response - appreciate the detail. thanks so much.
Quite Welcome!
Very nice! When you configured your 5.26 ball nose, did you enter that number or 10.5 as the degree for the reconfigured "v-bit"?
Thanks for watching! Yes, I set the bit as 10.5 (or at least the software rounds down, I actually enter 10.52).
Is it just me or is the computer screen footage too blurry to read?
Thanks for watching! It may be a little blurry, as I did not shift focus to the dialogs where I was inputting parameters. My appologies for that. I produced this on a 3840x1440p monitor in 4K. Is there a parameter in particular that you were looking for?
I got up in the middle of the night to find something to help me really get started with the inlays in V12, Thank you !
Glad I could be of service! Thanks for watching!
Great video. Thank you. I just upgraded my V12 Desktop to the V12 Pro. I’ve been a woodworker for 50 plus years but only a CNC owner for 6 months. Now for my question. Using the Vcarve inlay for the first time I followed the instruction video exactly from Vectric tutorial on the inlay. Used the same cut depth, glue gap and surface gap. Used the same 60° v bit and 1/8th inch clearance tool. Everything ran great and looked good in both plug and pocket. However when I dry fitted the plug it was super loose. Any ideas what could have went wrong? The plug I used walnut and the pocket material was beechwood. Thanks again always enjoy your videos.
I have noticed with the vcarve inlay toolpath, it does feel a bit loose, but when I have glued them up, they have all been solid. Did you glue up the inlay, and check it after completion? Thank you for watching and supporting the channel!
@tk.designs: I appreciate the video and your responsiveness to other posts!
@ghulsbrink72, while this isn't theoretically the best approach, I found that I could tweak loose inlays (male plugs loose in pockets) by raising the V-bit Z-zero location for the female inlay (pockets). Shallower/narrow parts needed less raising of the bit, especially to ensure that shallowest parts (0.060 in wide x 0.070 deep) could still fully seat in the pocket.
This adjustment for good fit between inlay pocket and plug was piece dependent and material dependent: my reference piece is a 3-layer inlay of Bucky Badger (Univ of WI mascot) with hard maple background, walnut body, goncalo sweater and hard maple sweater stripes. I raised the Z-zero 0.060 inch for a 3.0 in wide, 0.350 in deep pocket (Bucky's body, plug start=0 flat=0.350) but only raised Z-zero 0.025 inch for a 3.0 in wide, 0.200 in deep pocket (Bucky's face inlayed on body, plug start=0.150 flat=0.080); raised the Z-zero 0.015 in for 0.10 in wide 0.2-0.22 in deep (custom lettering, plug start=0.150 flat=0.125); and barely raised the Z-zero 0.005 in for 0.050 in wide 0.1 in deep pockets (sweater stripes, plug start=0.070 flat=0.080).
I am still tweaking the process as this was only my 4th inlay ever (and 3rd with VCarvePro) and could be improved upon (my stripes didn't seat deep enough - the small the part the smaller the glue gap needs to be). Note if the plugs don't fit (since the actual inlay pockets become shallower than their calculated design once you've raised the Z-zero), just sand down the tops of the plugs a bit. Since you really just care about their width at the female's highest point/board surface. I found trying to improve the fit by changing the inlay pocket depths and plug start and flat depths had the potential to mess up the clarity of the design (like how far Bucky's hand was from his body).
I would like to learn how others handle loose plugs - seems to be a common issue. Maybe simply sanding more off the top of plugs would let them seat better but I encountered lots of plugs bottoming out onto their flat before the fit was good. Thanks.
Forgot to mention I was using a Amana RC-1045 INSERT V-GROOVE 45° 1/2 SHANK . I thought moving to smaller angle from 90o or 60o V-bit would solve looseness but it didn't. Looking forward to trialing a tapered ballnose bit like TK_Designs uses: see his tip to
@RonMartinelli-nt9qg below about setting up these TBNs in VCarvePro.
@@cristinamullally4698 I use the tapered ballnose bits due to the depth and detail of several of my inlays. I have inlay portions that are about 1mm wide, and 6mm deep (See my N.O Saints Cutting Board Vid).
I think I would definitely have to change my approach if I were using a 45 or 60 degree v-bit. Let me know if you encounter any issues with using the TBN. And thank you for your insight and sharing your experience with the V-Carve Inlays. Thanks for watching!
Hello, and thanks!! So, in your comment to LutzCnC you wrote: "This is all assuming of course that you are using the new vcarve inlay toolpath. If you are using traditional, I can provide parameters as well." I am using inches and traditional- I'd love to see the parameters you would suggest I use... Thanks again!
Unfortunately, I do not work in inches, so I am not sure how to translate my measurements. I know you can convert MM to inches, but it doesn't necessarily it will work as a straight conversion when doing inlays. The settings I would recommend trying: Pocket: 0" start, 0.236 flat. Plug: Start: 0.217", Flat: 0.02". For the plug, remember that the start depth will assume that the material has been above. You should probably make multiple toolpaths with the start depth starting at something like .05" and flat depth *ALWAYS* being 0.02". I do the same thing with traditional inlays with MM measurements. Hope this helps. Try a small simple inlay with those settings, and see where you get. Thanks for watching!
@@tk.designs 👍👍
How do you handle a multi color plug inlay? Can you set up multiple sheets in Vcarve inlay on the same project on V12? I am on the fence about upgrading to Aspire 12. Thanks for posting the actual comparison betweent the two methods.
Thanks for watching! You absolutely can set up multiple sheets and even layer inlays. I just did a test, where I took the project from this video, and added a little offset on the vcarve inlay toolpath on the inside, and then generated a new vcarve inlay toolpath for the new offset. I created a new layer for the offset, and a separate sheet for the offset. It created both just fine. I may do a video on this in the near future, as I plan to make an inlaid wall plaque for my daughter.
@@tk.designs Thanks for the response. I will be watching for your video onthe inlaid wall plaque.
Thank you for the video - very interesting.
I've been playing with the new V12 Inlay tool path whilst my CNC is temporarily out of action, but I cant get the toolpath to recognise my Amana bit.
I presume that this is a bug but you very briefly mentioned it it the video. Can you explain how to get around this whilst Vectric - presumably - sort out the issue ?
If your amana bit it is one of the 15 degree variety, it is probably listed in the tool database as a Tapered Ballnose, or an egraving bit. The V-Bit tool path only accepts V-Bits. To get around this, I use a 5.26 degree TBN. I change it from TBN to V-BIT, and double the side angle and it gave these results. You will need to test it with your bits as sometimes it doesn't like the parameters like that. Hope that helps. Thanks for watching!
@@tk.designs Its the 6.2mm degree and yes, listed as a TBN.
I'll try copying it to the V-bit section - thank you for replying.
@@MrJeremyNako Copy it, but also go in and change it to a V-bit, and double the side angle to 12.4 degrees. That should do it for you.
@@tk.designs Much appreciated - thank you.
That is a fair amount of movement in the work piece when it was cutting the Vcarve inlay pocket. Might be why it had soo much more play.
I presume you are referring to the vcarve inlay toolpath. I thought the same thing, and was worried that it was going to leave gaps along the edges of the inlay, but to my surprise it didn't. I just didn't have to wedge it into the pocket. There was just enough of a differential to allow it to sit in the pocket, and leave no gaps. Thanks for watching!
@@tk.designs I can't wait till good weather finally hits so I can play with these new features. (my machine and computer are in my garage)
@@tratzum I feel ya! Mine is also in the garage, but I live in SOCAL. Frigid temperatures here are 50 degrees Fahrenheit 🤣🤣🤣
@@tk.designsI didn’t know you were in Cali!? What part of Cali? I’m in North Fontana.
@@gthmcty111 I am in Lemon Grove. Suburb of San Diego.
My plug keeps bottoming out. Using TBN. I’ve adjusted the depth but still way too loose. Any advise
Thanks for watching! Can you tell me what you are using for parameters? If the plug is bottoming out, your glue gap may be too large. Are yo working in inches or mm?
@@tk.designs working in inches with a Amana 46280. 6.2 degree. I have it in as a 12.4 vbit. Maybe that’s my problem. Not sure of the settings for the glue gap. I tried zooming in on your video. Just couldn’t really see what you had for parameters . TIA
Ok. One of my other viewers had the same kind of issue. We were able to confirm that using inches, a pocket of 0.2 inches with a glue gap of 0.02 inches should give proper fitment. I use mm myself, and I set my pocket at 6mm and 0.5mm for the glue gap for good fits. This is all assuming of course that you are using the new vcarve inlay toolpath. If you are using traditional, I can provide parameters as well.
@@tk.designs thank you sir. I will give those settings a try.
So I tried those settings and it’s super sloppy in the hole. Just wobbles around. I did the number 11 as a test. The male is noticeably thinner than the Female opening. ~insert joke. lol