The Unfortunate Legacy of Shin Megami Tensei V
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- Опубліковано 13 кві 2024
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Shin Megami Tensei v was one of my favourite games from 2021. This is a bit funny to me because, despite my enjoyment of this title and the agonizing wait for its release, it’s not one that I’ve really thought about all too much since it came out and I’m certainly not alone in this. Does anyone else find it kind of weird just how quickly the hype surrounding this game died? I get that it’s normal for single-player games to eventually leave the limelight once their 15 minutes is up, but honestly to say that Shin Megami Tensei V even got that much time is a bit generous. Almost as quickly as the game was in our hands the general public moved on. Again, not too out of the ordinary for other game franchises, mainly the ones that get yearly releases, but for this series, it’s a bit strange. As someone who considers themselves to be a fan of this franchise and may or may not have engaged in the odd discussion every once in a while, I’ve begun to notice a few patterns. Games from the PS2 era onwards tend to be the ones that receive the most amount of attention. Maybe if you’re lucky you’ll find a diehard for some of the really old games and I mean some ancient fossils. Like even is this?
This is why it’s so strange to me to see a big-budget and highly anticipated game within the community like Shin Megami Tensei V just sort of fall by the wayside. For that first period when the game was all fresh in our minds, yeah, there was a lot of discussion. But not too long after that, people just sort of moved on. It was almost as if the general public forgot that the game even came out. Again, normal for a franchise with yearly releases, but it’s not often that we get a new numbered mainline game. You’d figure that there would be a lot more buzz surrounding it but that just isn’t the case. So you know what? That’s what we’re going to be doing in today’s video. It’s been about three years since the release of the original game and with Shin Megami Tensei V Vengence just on the horizon, I think it’s time to take a look back and truly analyze why the original game failed to leave an impact.
The Unfortunate Legacy of Shin Megami Tensei V. Shin Megami Tensei V was one of the better games from 2021 however what people don't talk about is how Shin Megami Tensei V failed to leave an impact. in this Shin Megami Tensei V Review, Shin Megami Tensei V Critique, Shin Megami Tensei V Analysis, I plan on answering why Shin Megami Tensei V has an Unfortunate Legacy while also giving some insight into the game's development. Hopefully, Shin Megami Tensei V Vengence will fully capture the potential of Shin Megami Tensei V and will be the better version of the game. When Shin Megami Tensei V Vengence comes out, I'll be sure to do a Shin Megami Tensei V Vengence Review, Shin Megami Tensei V Vengence Critique, Shin Megami Tensei V Analysis. So to stay up to date with everything Shin Megami Tensei and Persona related, consider subscribing to the Nam's Compendium channel. The Unfortunate Legacy of Shin Megami Tensei V is the best video by Nam's Compendium. - Ігри
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It's fascinating looking back at reviews of SMT4 at the time of its release criticizing the characters for being bland and forgettable. One decade later 5's characters lowered the bar and Walter and Jonathan are the meme icons of the entire series.
I feel like that shift happened earlier. people appreciated IV more after Apocalypse
Nah, most SMT IV reviews where made before SMT V release. And a Lot of those reviews come from either new players or Persona fans trying SMT for the first time.
I remember the memes of people noticing this when smt V came out.
It's because people treat Jonathan and Walter as isolated characters and judge them based on that, deeming them one-note "generic law/chaos boy". SMT IV like many games of the franchise focuses on world building and plot and the characters are threated as part of that rather then the other way around. I feel like character-driven stories have just become the norm, or at least mainstream stories have been a lot more character leaning. The true genius of their writing comes when you see them as cogs of a greater system, and you really need to have a grasp of the overarching world that is going around you which requires you to be aware of all the endings as well as pay attention to very important details that are heavily implied rather than made explicit with dialogue and visuals.
The music is fantastic though. Probably my favourite OSTs in the entire Megaten franchise. The other games have fantastic entries too
The fighting mechanics were fun but 2 things ruined the game for me:
1- The damage was defined not only by your stats but by your level, your demon could have 99 magic but as he was 10 levels below the boss then you did practically no damage, what the hell? and the same but in reverse, if you were 5 levels above the boss and your character had mediocre stats he still did a lot of damage and received nothing.
2- The plot was completely mishandled, undeveloped characters with unknown motivations until the last dungeon of the game and with very boring endings, definitely the SMT with the worst endings. They wanted to make a kind of modern SMT3 but it really didn't even come close to it.
The first point was the nail in the coffin for me for the original smt v sadly. Thankfully the developers for 5 vengance have mentioned that they are changing that aspect
So should levels be removed entirely then? And only leave stats?
@@SourWine789 Naw. not levels the level scaling, that's what op is talking about.
Its been in other games in the series also so if they take that out i feel the game would be better for it.
Literally ruined the game with that scaling BS
@@Argonisgema ohhh I see, my mistake
You mention you don't know why the things mentioned early on didn't end up in the final product, while mentioning "producer Yamai". Well, I think that's actually a big point that showcases how turbulent production likely was. Yamai, who was initially pushed as producer and head of the game in early interviews is only credited in the final game by "original concept", which means at some point he completely left development of the game and new staff took over. I wouldn't be surprised if the story we ended up with was just the new staff attempting to finish the game on time.
At this time and age, buying an ATLUS game first day is an invitation to disaster. 3 or 4 years later you'll be playing a better, more refined version anyways.
At this rate, my only reason to buy an ATLUS game at launch would be fear of receiving spoilers untill the better version and FOMO.
I still prefer the OG version of Strange Journey to its remaster which only came out 10 years later.
It felt like nothing more than an easy to make cashgrab of a relatively newer, yet perfectly fine title which also shat on Kanekos iconic artwork by replacing some of it.
That last point alone would make me never want to give that game a single cent.
@@Thial1000Considering redux have the best ending and tons of quality of life improvement.
Kaneko designs doesn't have much weight to me.
People need to learn to move on.
Persona 5 vanilla was an amazing experience without the royal content so idk what you're talking about. And also, SMT 4 didn't have a second version and the game is one of the best jrpgs I played in my life and compared to SMT 4, SMT 5 is not even close to be as good.
Case in point: SMT5 Vengeance, which I will most certainly get a physical PS4 copy of this summer! :)
It may be an unfortunate legacy, but damn if it doesn't have some of the best RPG gameplay of the past few years.
We can all praise the gameplay as much as we want but at the end of the day we gotta acknowledge that it's an SMT game, and you can find just as good of gameplay if not better in Nocturne, IV, IVA or SJ.
So at that point the only things V can use to stand on its own merits are that story and atmosphere, most of which felt lacking, especially again in comparison to those older games.
And keep in mind, V came out 5 years after IVA, nearly a decade after IV. All that time and the only thing V has that sets it apart is Ryota Kozukas amazing soundtrack.
That's why SMT fans hate on V
@@Pie_The_Man Tbf in terms of mainline SMT, the only one with even a passable story is IV. V really reminds me of III in all of the best (and worst) ways.
I think we just have to accept SMT overperforms in gameplay, while overperforming in story/characters is more Persona's thing. Maybe one day we'll see a game from either of them that excels in both.
@@Pie_The_Manthis is just not right tho, majority of smt fans actually love v for its gameplay, there’s always gonna be opinionated statements but factually smt v houses the best quality of life changes while still being accessible to newer players. The main issues people bring up about the game is the level scaling, the magatsuhi system and the minimalist story which all are valid complaints but don’t make the game worse than other smt games, in the gameplay and exploration department this is the best smt game
@@Pie_The_Mandon’t try to speak for other smt fans, people don’t hate smt v it’s regarded as one of the best in gameplay but factually one of the worst in stories but the gameplay is arguably as good if not better than iv. It only gets criticized because lack luster story
@@Pie_The_Manjust as good yes…better no, smt v definitely has the best gameplay and exploration just off the new mechanics and how much more streamlined they made fusions. And the fact they made making your ideal demons less tedious with the addition of the essences is phenomenal. The quality of life changes are top notch, such as fusing from your compendium and changing affinities and skills via essences
My biggest problem with smt 5 is that it tries to be nocturne really badly without understanding what made nocturne's minimalistic setting for its story work and doubling down on flaws that plagued nocturne as well
I still love the game,but it couldve been so much better if it tried to carve its own identity rather than trying to be nocturne 2
Pretty much.
“Released on a platform with the exact opposite demographic”?
You mean the same platform (Switch) that’s been absolutely dominating the primary market for JRPGs (Japan) for the past years?
Not just JRPGs but japanese games in general.
People don't wanna accept that the Switch dominates any market
What's a "Japan"?
Is also the platform from a company which have the most successful sales of SMT games.
Atlus know the niche and choose nintendo for smt, since is waaaaay less mainstream than other megaten titles anyway.
I was about to make the same comment 'cause that sentence stunned me so much like dude what are you even talking about LMAO
SMT V is the game of all time
Gameplay and Lore wise I agree. Story wise needs a bit of work
Lol. Let's hope SMT V V does it justice.
come back patrock i miss you ☹☹
@@goobert89 nope
SMT V is definitely a game
I’m glad I didn’t play this game until last year when my roommate let me borrow his switch, so my copy was only like $30 😹
Like a lot of other comments said, the biggest issue with SMT V is that it tried to be Nocturne 2 without understanding what made the original game work.
This isn't a "story simple & dumdum" issue. Nocturne had as simple of a plot as you could get, but the way it and the world in general was presented just hit _different,_ whetever it was because of the art design or the music or just that PS2 era mystique.
The vanilla SMT V plotline just feels like the diet coke version of that. Everything feels way blander and the characters don't really feel impactful outside of Aogami as he's the dude in your shoulder the whole game.
Idk, man. This game has a lot of potential but i hope the new campaign adds the staying power SMT V really needs to keep itself standing.
I truly think Vengeance will fix most if not all of these problems.
SMTV Excels in gameplay, no question about that. The original story is just, Interesting ideas and some admittedly cool cutscenes, kind of just stringed together. It's not a terrible story imo, but it's left too open ended and does not give players enough to sink their teeth into. Especially with having the traditional law, chaos and nuetral routes but only two of those routes feel like they have any buildup.
At least going by the Trailers of Vengeance, I know for sure that'll have far more going on in the narrative and characters to keep folks engaged.
But it will leave the "Canon of Creation" feeling like just an extra game mode you can go through like say the Akira Route in SMTIF / Snow Queen in Persona 1, rather than the original narrative (unless Vengeance does add more cutscenes too it, which I doubt).
You saying it was left ''open ended" is you being gracious, this story was a work in progress that was left unfinished and released as it is unfortunately, that's the main reason vengeance is important right now, getting a good and finished story with this great gameplay will make this game more than just memorable.
yeah unfortunately, the lackluster story IS the reason this game vanished from the public limelight so quickly. RPGs, more than any other genre NEED a good story to have a lasting impression.
@@ArynBacklogDragonagreed story is important to rpgs
the gameplay is not good, the combat is good, the rest of the actual gameplay is atrocious.
It wasn't "open-ended", it was incomplete. Majority of the character arcs made no sense and were rushed by the end. There were a lot of fanboys justifying the game when it came out for being "minimalist" but it was just nonsensical and lacked any real impact by the end.
With the recently announced SMTV Vengeance or whatever it's called, I've decided I won't be buying anymore Persona or SMT games at launch. If they want my money, they'll release a full package a launch, not 2-3 years later.
This, it's straight disrespect to the consumer and people defending them are delusional. I've also decided recently that I'll be doing the same.
@@d4sbot I used to like Atlus a lot, but in recent years I've grown pretty sour towards them. In fact, Monolith Soft has taken their place for me, because at least they will release a full game, and their DLC is priced appropriately.
Zoom-Zoom doesn't know what expansions are
LOL! LMAO!
I wish I had your self-control. I'm probably still buying games at launch even though I know that eventually they will release a new and better version of the same game, and that sucks.
Now that Atlus is releasing games simultaneously on multiple platforms and PC, I hope they release new content as DLC. But we know Atlus, they probably won't.
Same, I only bought this game near launch, due to the steel box release of SMTV being 40 USD.
ATLUS wants us to double dip, like with every other re-release they've done, but I don't want to, when Monolith Soft releases finished RPGs with DLC that is like expansion packs from years gone by.
There's also what Nam has told on how a lot of ATLUS re-releases have something that screw it up, a random new character, an iOS port, "true golden ending". For every Devil Survivor Overclocked or P5 Royal, there's all the other re-releases.
It's a shame too, I like the new stuff in SMTV, even as someone that didn't play as much of these games, but I really don't like how V's story feels half baked, especially when other SMT games have better story. It's the very reason why I focused on finishing Xenoblade 1 Definitive Edition.
I definitely agree. I enjoyed SMT5 when I was playing with it but it didn't super click with me. SMT4, in comparison, got a grip on my brain stem and never let go
Really wish we got a remaster of 4 and maybe even 4A
Complete reverse for me, i play SMT4 solely bc ppl keeping talking about how good the story is, the gameplay just didn't click with me
Same, SMT IV has to come to modern platforms
i could not finish smt4 no matter how hard i try. the overworld always freaking annoys me
@@cptncutleg slap SMT V gameplay and aesthetics on top of SMT4 and you get GOTY all years. I loved SMT4A too I don't understand all the hate it gets
Even though SMT5's story is undoubtedly half-baked, there is one through-line 5 made that I genuinely loved. That being the natural conclusion to Lucifer's motivations in Nocturne.
Lucifer's primary goal in Nocturne was to overthrow YHVH, who he believed was responsible for the endless cycle of destruction and recreation the universe had been subjected to. He was successful, but his victory in dethroning God led to a discovery he wasn't expecting. That YHVH ultimately wasn't responsible for the cycle, even if he had a hand in manipulating it to some degree. In truth, the Mandala System is an inevitability baked into the foundation of the universe itself.
But upon consuming The Creator's knowledge, he discovered a way to free the universe from the Mandala System. He would finally be able to create the unshackled world he desired in Nocturne. But to do so, he would need to pass down the Knowledge he consumed to a Nahobino capable of not only reaching the Throne of Creation, but capable of defeating him in his complete angelic form.
Lucifer is Chaos in the sense that he desires a version of humanity that is completely unfettered. From the beginning, he's acted in hopes of seeing what people can do when they're allowed to reach their fullest potential. With nothing, not even God himself, holding them back. It's only natural he would do everything in his power to bring his vision into reality, even if it means sacrificing himself to do so. Even if he isn't there to see what humanity is truly capable of, his battle ends with him content that the universe's shackles will finally be broken.
It proves to me that, at one point, a much deeper story was planned for this game. And yet because SMT5 had a troubled development, a lot of ideas had to be thrown out. And yet, somehow through it all, this one scrap of an incredible story managed to survive.
If the game wasn't on the switch exclusively, more people would've talked about/play it. On top of it being a covid game with as big of a team as it had, coordinating that and having the end product being good is gonna be a pain
The Switch has dominated the JRPG market for the last couple of years.
I've been replaying OG SMT V before Vengeance and yeah, the game still holds up well in the gameplay, it's probably one of the best if not the best turn based JRPG gameplay i've see so far and this makes me even more hyped to see if Vengeance will finally fix its main issue that is the story.
With that said, it's unfortunate that the game couldn't have been launched in a satisfactory way from the beggining but i really wish that Vengeance will properly deliver the game we wanted 3 years ago.
I hear people say this and it generally confuses me every time I hear it. Not that you are wrong, I just generally wonder how many jrpgs you even played.
SMT 5 just doesn't have any characters I care about. There are some good bits and pieces in the story and characters, but coming from SMT 4 it's just not hitting the right spots for me. And even compared to SMT 3, it fell short in terms of the overall world. Gameplay-wise, SMT 5 is great. But man, nothing will ever surpass that moment when I've slain the Minotaur and entered Tokyo for the first time, or when I met Hikawa in the eerie hospital in SMT 3. SMT 5's world just doesn't do anything for me. I'll still pick up Vengeance when it comes out because SMT 5 is a great game, and now that it's free from the shackles of the Switch, it might actually look like it finally.
Same, I didn't really care about anyone either.
I think they wanted to shove the whole desert apocalypse thing so much they forgot that exploring lively areas is good too like in smt4.
SMTV has the problem that, just like in SMTIV, the protagonist just met the main cast but, like in SMTIII, also assumes the protagonist has a relationship with them from the very beginning.
That is not how this works.
And then it builds up a charcter just to instantly kill them again. I think it could have done wonders if you had to live with not being able to defeat Lahmu and him being a motivation to keep going for at least one more area. Instead of a demonking you never met before (and who also just dies).
I truly think COVID really hurt this games development in certain parts. Overall, this is still an amazing game and my favorite within the franchise. The gameplay in this game is so good.
It took a reset for me to enjoy the game and gameplays. But other things came out that caught my attention. But now with Vengeance coming out I don’t even want to bother finishing my first playthrough
The game was in development when the Switch was still called the NX 💀
Did it really? The game was in development years before anyone would seriously consider a global pandemic.
@@dzigayu4944 I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that one year of a pandemic could really do some damage to some of the plans they had. Remember this game released in 2021 and many corporations were doing work from home and still trying to figure out how to work around the new environment at the time.
@@Chelaxim just because it was in development, that doesn’t mean it entered full production. Remember that games often have a “draft” phase where they are writing the story and testing gameplay concepts.
I mean it's getting more love than Fire Emblem Engage. It's a game I keep forgetting even exists and is in my Switch wishlist.
I loved V. One of the few games i've beaten and went right back into it which i haven't done even for the "better" SMT games. Engage was for me the worst experience i've ever had playing fire emblem and as as result probably the last time i buy fire emblem on release.
I really like FE Engage.. I mean it’s clearly not as good as Three Houses but not much is
I ignored it because it was in Nintendo jail, gonna pick it up when it's on PC.
What disappointed me was that I was expecting it yo be as memorable as SMT IV. While V had a banger OST and the best combat in a turn based RPG, it's world and characters just left me with nothing. The world design was so good that I wish it had more depth to push it forward.
I think about SMT V every single day lol. Its my favourite game of all time.
Glad you injoyed the game what is your favorite thing about the game just curious?
@@GoProGamer447 the lore and atmosphere.
The gameplay is amazing but i dont think just gameplay can carry a game. I think the lore is the most interesting out of any SMT game. And I think that the story is an interesting allegory for ideologies.
I will admit characters are better in other SMT games (SJ and IV) but there are still characters i like (Dazai, Abdiel, Nuwa, Yakumo, Tao and Sahori)
@@louish5068bro I love their take on the Garden of Eden. God took away every other God's knowledge and placed it in an apple. Adam and Eve ate the apple, which is why God punished humanity because now the possibility of a Nahobino arising is on the table, threatening God's rule. So cool
@@ArlecchinoAKAFather I also like the fact they just say a serpent tempted the humans. We dont know who that serpent is especially with this newly revealed focus on snake gods in Vengeance. Obvious answer is Lucifer, could be Nuwa (she would want humans to be free of God as she is in her mythology a mother goddess who created humans), and could also be Lilith now given her Vengeance design or possibly Samael (who she is a wife of, could explain why Samael is seemingly dead, there is also a somewhat popular interpretation of the Bible in which Samael is the serpent in Eden)
@@louish5068 actually In the bible it was never stated that the serpent was Lucifer, it's always referred to as "the serpent". But yeah, SMT can make which ever demon they want as the serpent and Nuwa being that serpent is a cool idea
I personally like shin migami tensei 5 is it perfect no but you know as a fan of this genre I think it was fun.
The unfortunate legacy is that it'll be forever considered a beta for a more complete game that'll come out.
SMTV is such a weird game.
Like, the gameplay is really fun, it looks pretty good, neat cutscenes and an amazing soundtrack that could easily stand next to those from other titles.
However, the story and worldbuilding is incredibly shallow. And the little there is, you don't have to look out for. It's fed to you by hand while you follow orders without being able to make any meaningful decisions until the very end (where you basically get the same ending with role distribution determined by who you joined).
If I compare this to Nocturne...
Nocturne also throws you into this world you have no idea about, but:
Nocturne establishes your friends as persons the protagonist already knew for quite some time
SMTV has of a group of people he just met and that were nice to him.
Nocturne hands you as your first ally a bit dubious reporter who also has no idea what's going on, so you have to figure out what to do by yourself.
SMTV gives you a protofiend who tells you what to do. No need thinking for yourself. He is later replaced by a minister and an archangel who tell you what to do.
In Nocturne, while you barely meet your former friends, every meeting is important and progressses their character development.
SMTV the meetings are not nearly as meaningful and then right before the finale suddenly change to fit the stories's end. Also, two of the characters just disappear before you can really bond with them.
Nocturne has, despite being a world where all humans were wiped out, various npcs in for of souls, demon and manikins who contribute to the worldbuilding with their dialogues.
SMTV has npcs that give you quest or warn you of a bossfight. I can count the demons who contribute to worldbuilding outside of these on one hand.
Maybe I was really unlucky with my choice of the two endings I played (Nuwa and Abdiel).
Maybe I am not deep enough into Nocturne to get taken in by the references (I finished my first SMTIII run after my first SMTV run. Nuwa ending is def. the funniest though)
But with all it's good points, I am really struggling to get myself to play SMTV for a third time.
And I am scared Vengeance is not fixing that in the long run.
I'm pretty certain I remember people bringing up comparisons to Nocturne as early as the first few trailers and comparing Da'at to the Vortex Realm in terms of general aesthetics. Sure it became alot more blatant with the final game and the Demi-Fiend dlc but I'm pretty sure comparisons were made at the time.
Really goes to show how little i care about some supposed generalized opinions Online, personally i played my first SMT5 File for almost 300 hours before i finally finished the game and hadn't felt as crazed about a Video Game ever since P3, now they're my two favourite games of all time, i felt the Story was better than past games so you really can't imagine my shock when i heard people dunking on the Story, to each his own i guess, im off to finish it 3 more times before Vengeance is out, hope i make it in time.
SMTV is to megami tensei what FE Fates is to Fire Emblem.
A game that _has no story_ or rather it might as well have no story. But the gameplay overall is spectacular.
Wonder if that gets fixed in Vengeance.
I would say FE Engange is also a good comparasion
@@alsaiduq4363
Engage and Fates are basically cut from the same cloth so that’s understandable.
@@alsaiduq4363 it's really weird that multiple somewhat niche rpg series have a switch entry with weak ass storytelling but amazing gameplay.
I kept thinking the exact same thing the entire time while watching this video.
I've been saying this for years, funny enough Fates(Conquest) is my favorite Fire Emblem game, meanwhile... IV is my favorite SMT game but V was also great and fun in the end, now i just wish that Vengeance fixes the story.
SMT5 is overhated
Like SMT IV Apocalypse ;)
I agree.
def not, its one of the most underwhelming games ive ever played
For me SMT V had some disastrous writing and uneven character development issues that made me not really care to go back into it and explore or experience the whole thing again like Nocturne did. The gameplay was great, sure, but so much of the writing felt underbaked.
I swear nobody was talking about this game after barely a year it came out. I really do hope people come to appreciate SMT V for all the good and bad it did
i've been thinking about and i really do think that real life events might be the cause of the story being as it is. For example, another japanese game, ciconia phase 2, was planned for 2020 but due to the game being about world ending events, the dev decided that he shouldn't release it because of covid happening and the game got delayed to this day. Also, if you go back in time, this thing can be see happening numerous times, for example Disaster Report 4, a game about surviving through giant earthqueakes and tsunamis, was cancelled after the 2011 Tōhoku earthquake and didn't release until several years after. Going further in time, when world trade center attack happened, a bunch of games and movies got cancelled, delayed or rewritten, basically anything including new york or 2 towers being present in a story. My theory is that they indeed had a story ready around 2018 but after covid started happenning in 2020, they chickened out and got scared and decided to nuke the entire storyboard, after which they only managed to pick a few pieces left and glued them together and it stayed like that due to the deadline being not far of and the game being already far in development and not having time to rework stuff and they just kinda had to make something up with what they already had.
I actually remember hearing when the game came out that SMT V did go through some rough development mainly surrounding using the unreal engine. Allegedly the staff was not familiar with the Unreal Engine causing large portions of the staff to leave and needing to get in a new development team. I don’t exactly remember where I heard this, so take this with a grain of salt.
didn't they advertise thta smt5 was the first game to be made entirely in unreal?
or was that persona 5?
@@Argonisgema I just looked it up and P5 runs on its own Engine making SMT V the first Atlus game to run on Unreal 5, which leads credit to the idea that it was unfamiliarity with the engine that led to frustration amongst a sizable portion of the Devs.
I cant wait for the new release, i couldnt deal with how bad it ran on the switch, kinda killed my excitement for it and i never even got past the first boss, but im looking forward to doing 2 playthroughs on the new release on ps5
Great video, Nam!
As someone who absolutely loves this game to death and still plays it from time to time, even I can't help but agree with many of your points here. I think it definitely suffers from a serious case of "Pre-Maniax syndrome" where, despite its initial release being absolutely groundbreaking in the graphics and gameplay department, the larger story and narrative content is just so inherently restricted in its presentation that said initial release is simply unable to cement itself as "one of the greats" despite how brilliant some of the new ideas present here may truly be. I mean hell, we kinda tend to forget that the initial release of Nocturne was (as far as I remember, don't quote me on this though) pretty mixed in its reception by diehard Japanese fans just because of how much of a downgrade they felt its main campaign and story presentation to be from that of 1 and 2.
So ultimately, my hope for V is that, like Nocturne Maniax, maybe Vengeance will serve as sort of a "rekindling of the flame" for this game and its legacy. Because, warts and all, I absolutely ADORE this game, not just for its gameplay but for its story too. Having played through it about 6, going on 7 times now, I can't help but feel that this game's story is just such an honest, valiant effort, even if many of its threads do tend to fall somewhat (or in some cases, VERY) short ( ***cough*** Yuzuru Atsuta).
In fact, I love it so much that I've (apologies for the shameless plug, lol) recently begun working on a sort of "documentary" type video for my channel that aims to foster just general analysis and discussion surrounding the game, but with a bit more of a "positive" air to it, focusing a lot more on the things that I felt it did right rather than wrong. I mean hell, I don't feel like nearly enough people talk about just how spectacularly SMT V tackles a lot of the real world myths via its quests and substories compared to previous entries; Not to mention its particularly "meta" incarnation of Lucifer, which is easily one of the most fascinating parts of the entire package to me personally.
Overall though, great video, man. I just love seeing candid discussions surrounding these games, positive or negative. It all comes from a place of love for these games, and just a general, shared desire to see our favorite series to be the best they possibly can be and I don't feel like you can ever really go wrong with that.
Cheers dude, and here's to hoping Vengeance will blow us away!!
I welcome the changes for vengeance. I really liked smt5 but is a bit rough around the edges. Thankfully the vanilla experience comes with vengeance so is like buying smt4+apocalypse for one
5 screams that it was hurt badly by the pandemic
They even added a COVID demon (Amabie) in Vengeance, maybe this is a sign.
Doi's design for Amabie was first revealed on August 27, 2021 for wishing the end of the COVID19 pandemic, Years before it was officially announced that it would appear as a demon in Shin Megami Tensei V: Vengeance.
@@nr2676 interesting, didn't know the design was already 3 years old.
5 was hurt badly by multiple factors: COVID, first HD game for Team Maniax, first Unreal game and first open world game for Atlus..... also had to be squeezed into the Switch (obviously this is why P3R and Metaphor is not coming out there).
5 gameplay is great, but 4A is still better in my opinion. The decision to make level a stat really compromised my experience, way too many fights that just were hard because I was underleveled and then became a walk in the park if I was at the same level or one above as the enemy. Also their phylosophy with battles going for way more time wasn't really something that added much for the enjoyment of the gameplay.
Hadn't though before about the lack of memorable spots in the game until you mentioned it. From the top of my head, I can only recall the school in some cutscenes when the plot with that schoolgirl and the demon starts, the fairy village and the place where they hold the council of gods. From the trailers, the game looked like it would have way more closed and tense scenarios, horror vibes and all, but that was very much only in that school portion of the game. I feel like a modern world slowly becoming ravaged by demons in the same horrific way as it happened with the school would have made for a way more unique atmosphere, tho I enjoyed the early game where you're just dropped in this ruined and deserted place and have to face off demons without knowing what's going on for quite a while. Gives quite a unique uncertain feeling to the player, while also allowing for a certain indepedence, even if fake since there is limits to where you can go and what you can do.
Tbf,I am a story first gameplay second kinda guy. The best combat and exploration can only hold me so long before I just...get bored without a proper narrative to keep me going. And this story...not bad,but not enough.
I started to notice I was interested less and less in the game WHILE on my first playthrough and when the tower and the ending CHOICE came,it completely lost me.
Choosing your ending kills all replayability for me. I could just save before the final dungeon and then reload after seeing an ending.
Different alignments do almost nothing to change the experience. I had to play through SMT4 four times back to back to get all endings but got story changes that actually justified it.
SMT5 was the most disappointing of the main games to me, I put up with 4 and when I took 4:A less seriously I began to enjoy it. All 5 gave me was a half-decent opening, interesting ideas that went nowhere, flat characters, no dungeons save 2, really good demon designs, excellent art, a great OST, and a very wonderful send-off to one of my top 5 favorite characters in the franchise, Lucifer, in a game that doesn't deserve said send-off to a character who definitely doesn't deserve to inherit his will; Hito-Shura, Aleph and the MC or SJ deserve to inherit it Way more than the MC or 5.
I honestly love SMTV for being more or less a direct sequel to Nocturne because I love Nocturne so much, and am probably looking forward to V Vengeance more than any other release on the horizon right now.
Oh boy I really enjoyed SMTV as it hit that nerve going for great classic 'modern' JRPG feel.
I never picked it up and I honestly hadn't been interesting in ever playing it... but I am somewhat looking forward to Vengance. Maybe when it goes on sale.
Hope to Dagda DLC offers Anarchy Nanashi boss fight.
I don't mind how SMTV borrows so much from Nocturne. I love Nocturne, so why wouldn't I want more of it? Something original and new might have been nicer, but sometimes trying something new is risky, so I understand from ATLUS' perspective.
I beat smt5 but I can't tell you a single npc's name.
While i agree the story and characters were flat and forgettable, i absolutely loved it mechanically. So addictive and the core gameplay loop never bored me, even after i 100% it i wanted more. Very excited for Vengeance.
It will comeback with vengeance
one of my big problems with SMTV that i hope gets solved in vengeance's new story is how all of the side characters are completely ancillary to whatever's directly in front of you, so they go off and have all of their story off screen only to pop up later like "so this happened". its the most noticeable with Dazai and Miyazu: Dazai because of his random hair slick back joker moment, like we see him go from his starting self to full extreme law man. Miyazu on the other hand literally doesn't do anything between the beginning and end of game until she's relevant for khonsu's optional story
Smt v is such a special game to me and there hasn't been a day where I haven't thought about it but I get why people didn't really connect with it as much as I did so I hope vengeance shows what I saw in the og 🙏
I bought a switch for this game and i love it but after a while this game just disappear from my mind, i think the problem is the storytelling, for me other SMT games are like experiences with themes or character you can pondering for a long time but SMTV feels more like a toy, is really fun to play with but when you finish with it nothing of his story or characters remain with you
The intention behind V was to have the feel of Nocturne and the gameplay improvements from IV, so from that angle I think it did an okay job
I wonder if Vengeance will also edit the original endings and the creation arc by improving it from its original. I hope it's not just the Vengeance route that gets love. The original plot really needs it too!
I sort of disagree with you about the game not having atmosphere, the desert area that you start in has great atmosphere imo.
Honestly, it has the best gameplay of the entire series, which makes it the best game IMO
I think SMT IV Apocalypse still have best gamplay of the entire series, because Smirk (Apo version) > Magatsuhi Skills, better boss fights, and SMT V have that terrible level scaling. SMT V is on 2nd place for me.
Its a hard choose for me with SMTV or nocturne. V has amazing gameplay and removed random encounters and the OST slaps. Nocturne has cool moments and characters I mean freaking Dante from DMC is in that game , has a better story and better pacing not to mention how badass the protagonist looks.
You guys have to realize when those PS2 games came out we were all kids without any real responsibilities, and those games were everything. Now we’ve got other things vying for our attention and time. SMT V will get its 15 mins but now we’ve also got work and bills and families. A single player game isn’t going to have that staying power after it’s been beaten
I’m 1000% positive SMT V hit some 10 year old the same way Nocturne when we were that same age
I’m currently going through my first playthrough of SMT IV (and first SMT game in general), and once I get the neutral ending, my plan was to either get the enhanced version of 5 or go back and play 3. I gotta see how Vengeance does before I decide however.
When I played SMTV for the first time after hearing about stuff from the earlier entries, I was expecting the story the be interesting. But as I was getting towards the end I wasn't really feeling the plot all too much. Luckily I was engorged in the gameplay so I didn't mind to much but it definitely felt like the plot didn't hold up to what I've heard and watched of the previous SMTs and I'm glad that feeling wasn't purely from my noob experience having never played any other mainline SMT game
(I'd played Persona at that point but theres obviously some district difference between the two)
Come on Nam! Let’s hear it
I'm so glad I decided to wait for the inevitable atlus rerelease of V.
L E V E L S C A L I N G
I had a really odd experience trying to play SMTV. I couldn't even get myself to want to play past the first area, when with IV, devil survivor, soul hackers, and strange journey, i had no problem continually going for hours.
That list there was my entire play history of non-persona SMT, so it shows i haven't played nocturne either. Maybe it was the combination of the heavier focus on exploration (which i don't tend to enjoy being forced to do, and it gave me the impression it would be required to not be heavily underpowered) and the first area being basically a desert (my least favorite area type in games as a whole, just feels draining to go through)?
I tend to drop off of RPGs for a while, usually two thirds or so through the game, before returning to finish it later, but this is the first time i just dropped right at the start... and I just haven't felt the urge to go back. I just don't get it, I was really looking forward to this when it came out, only to basically bounce straight off.
The switch only release hurt this game bad, hopefully the definitive edition will help more. SMT is headed in the right direction
I agree, been waiting years to play this game on my PS4.
That makes no sense, is the fastest smt game and is the first that sold 1 million.
Remind you nocturne release on ps2!, the best selling console, and sold shit considering how good that console sold.
Just because you don't want a switch doesn't mean is sold bad, it sold great.
@@soragranda the numbers you say are world wide, I was speaking in terms of in the states. I’m aware of what SMTV has done in terms of the franchise I’m sure I’ve probably been a fan of the series a lot longer than most (old guy here). And relax I didn’t say anything bad about the switch I own two myself and I enjoyed the fact I could play it on the go. With more platform options it will help bring in more fans and those that don’t have a switch
I haven't forgotten about it, in fact it has been on mind since I found out it was only on Switch and hoping it would be ported......it's about damn time.
162 Day until Metaphor: ReFantazio comes out Nam's Compendium. Are you excited that the game is going to be released on October 11 2024
I can't wait to play this game on my PS4, hope it sells so well we get an Apocalypse style game and/or SMT1(and maybe 2, if..., etc.) remake with SMT5's combat/engine/graphics.
I got this game on valentines day, before I was aware of vengence
I plan beating it, on hard, on my first playthrough, before then
I am maining looking cause god damn high restore really helps this trickster avatar out to be my main magic user for coverage
The combat gameplay on this game is one of the most exciting I’ve played on a JRPG.
Can I also say the worst part is I feel nocturne had a better story even though I believe there was also less
SMTV is a game, that's a fact
SMT V Vengeance has my balls quaking in anticipation ngl
smt v final area made up the whole game !!!! great vid!!!!
6 more months until Metaphor: ReFantazio, are you hoping that the is going to be released on Fall? Are you curious about Nam's Compendium
Genuinely exited for Vengeance since i skip the first release cuz it was so obviously undercooked (story wise) that i knew instantly a new version was coming out. Glad i waited
I’ve been an SMT fan for over 15 years. I started with Persona 4, then moved on to Nocturne, Digital Devil Saga 1 and 2, Persona 3, SMT II, etc.
The only reason I didn’t play this game - although I REALLY wanted to - is because I don’t own a Nintendo Switch. I decided it didn’t make sense for me to buy a Switch for a handful of Nintendo-exclusive games when 99% of the gaming I do is on PC.
I think if this game could (re)release on PC and other consoles it would have way more attention.
Fym SMT V has bad art direction what game have you been playing
I enjoyed the game A LOT. But it just didnt hit the same like SMT4/Apocalypse. Smt4 stayed in my mind way after i finished it and i wanted to get all the endings. The characters were more interesting and their situation felt dire. Not to mention the twist in the beginning. I thought it was gonna be sone medieval setting until it wasn't. That right there pulled me in. I wanted to like 5 more but it feels a bit empty if that makes sense
It was my first SMT. Overall, i had a very good experience. The game had some technical issues (mainly framerate drops) but it didn't really hindered my experience. I found the gameplay, level design, art direction, atmosphere, and music really solid but i was let down by the story and character development (big time) which was something i was really looking for.
I'm still interested in playing more SMT games, i hope the next game really improves in the storytelling department.
2bhwyf, I thought that the gameplay (especially the overworld and customisation stuff) was leagues above all the other games, I've replayed it 4 times because it's so good from a gameplay perspective. Miles better than the other titles. Story I imagine will be "fixed" with Vengeance but the original holds up on it's own
I gotta disagree. The hype around SMT5 Vengeance is pretty dang big. It's just that games lose hype and the ones that don't are rare. Not every game can be Final Fantasy 7, ya know? Like look at highly praised games like Baldur's Gate 3 and Tears of the Kingdom. Aint no one talking about those games anymore
I doubt the original route of the game will have any improvements on the story but the Vengeance route will more then likely add something interesting.
I'm 26 hours in and loving it. I could never get into Nocturne or SMT 1/2. The many means of progression and never ending resources are a blessing for newcomers, not so good for longtime fans perhaps. Still, I'm looking forward to Vengeance too. At the end of the day, the goal is to have fun and relax. This is precisely the type of addictive game that gives me both, even when (an optional) boss whoops my rear. It has the marks of all great games - it keeps you coming back for more!
The ost and gameplay are why I kept playing, both were tremendous. However, there were times I put the game down and picked it up months later because the story was not good. I am extremely excited for Vengeance though.
This is my first taste of the franchise and I am really enjoying it. I see how they cut the fat and are reapplying it to the rerelease and that’s definitely a turn off but coming out of final fantasy and dragon quest, this game is sick
I feel like it has to do with the timing of the release. It was around mid November right? At that point people were moving onto the new year excited for new games and at the TGA it barely got any spotlight. I really enjoyed my time playing SMTV and man I wish it sold more. Hopefully with Vengeance it will gain the recognition and attention it deserved
Question: What do you all think of the nahobino’s new suit? I personally love it somehow more than his original design
I think that's mainly because SMTV had great gameplay but a really shallow story. While people here on YT have been deep diving on the stories of games throughout the series because of their complex stories and subtext, SMTV has so little of that that when people were done experiencing the gameplay, the game just didn't have anything else to offer. That's what happened to me, at least, and I still adore the game
I think the big weakness of this game is how dry the story, characters and world building was. I don't think many people finished the game and were itching to replay key moments and experience the world once again, unlike other games in the series. Good gameplay has become more or less a standard for the series and SMT V doesn't really excel in that area so much that one would like to replay everything after beating the story and notable optional content. Strange Journey is my favorite game in the series, even though it doesn't have my favorite gameplay, I prefer the normal press turn system, but boy does it so perfectly incorporate every creative aspect that goes into making a great game, so much so that the game is packed full of great moments that make me want to revisit the game over and over again and have a memorable experience everytime l.
I do believe the costs of development caught them by surprise and so the story took a hit.
Doesn't help either the fourth end required so much effort with an underwhelming reward. Level scaling sucked but it wasn't until the Shiva boss fight that all momentum was killed with empty grind.
For me Smt 5 feels like a unofficial part 2 of smt 3 part but its butchered. Let put it in a other way Imagine pokémon gold and silver that you can fight only battle some of the kanto gyms and the main game is rushed and the red fight is 30$ dlc. But everyone just appreciate it by just exist because of the unreasonable cooking time.
For me, it just felt like a huge tech demo...
Like, you could see the foundations of what they were going for between the worlds, but it lacked substance.
Sure, the gameplay is as fun as ever, but since the story wasn't particulary interesting, and there wasn't much variety in the exploration, I just found the experience too repetitive to want to finish.
Vengeance shows promise by having an actual story. Even if the exploration bit gets repetitive, if the story is engaging enough, I could probably stick it out lol
4:30 Opposite target demographic?, Switch?, the hell dude, ignorance is fine but holy shit XD.
smt 5’s story is stinky doodoo but this was the first mainline smt game to remove random encounters and that is a huge reason i am still playing
This is surprising! This is my second SMT game ever, after Apocalypse (it was a gift when I was younger) and I loved the fuck out of this game. I had no other context. Even though I played it on the switch, I thought it was super beautiful, I did notice lag in loading textures and some areas.
It's one of my favorite games ever, but I really wish the human parts were more entertaining. It was really boring for me, I just wanted to see the awesome demons, lol. I don't want to play persona for this reason, I'm here solely for the gameplay and demon designs.
4 was the best in character development and progression and storytelling
It is quite a shame what ended up happening to SMT V. I've always thought about it as a sequel to Nocturne but regarding how the story was managed, I feel that it flows great at the beggining but just stops abruptly and you're in the final zone of Da'at.
Personally I woul've liked that they remade the whole story in the re-release, hoping that with this new run they had the time to polish and properly convey the ideas they had for it in the first place (specially regarding the characters on the cover of the game). But it seems that to my missfortune, the trend of "fixing story in a future update" has been on the downside for me since Pokémon Sword&Shield. Despite that, I'm eager to play the new story they've prepared and hopefully find a new appreciation for the game.
(I still love the Nahobino's design, wow)
At least with what we've seen so far, Vengeance looks to be fixing the story for its new route.
Very unfortunate