Classical Composer Reacts to Stargazers (Nightwish) | The Daily Doug (Episode 276)
Вставка
- Опубліковано 30 лис 2021
- #Nightwish #Stargazers #NightwishReaction
In this episode of #TheDailyDoug, I'm listening to Stargazers by Nightwish. This is one of their early tunes, but we're listening today to their live performance in 2015. I was really taken by the language in the poem...such evocative words! And, as usual, the band and Floor deliver a knockout performance. I hope you enjoy!
Reference Video: • NIGHTWISH - Stargazers...
MY PATREON IS NOW ACTIVE!
JOIN THE NEW EXCLUSIVE DAILY DOUG COMMUNITY!
Patreon: / doughelvering
Instagram: / doug.helvering
Facebook: / helvering
Twitter: / helvering
Vimeo: vimeo.com/user146736659
The Daily Doug Directory: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
Tuomas was 22 years old when he composed this piece. That's impressive!
21 years old actually
@@lekalla I stand corrected :)
Tuomas is a musical polymath. Sheer genius.
"impressive" is one word. ""Ridiculous" is probably more accurate, however. The man is on another level.
@@WardDorrity Tuomas é o Mozart do metal
Concerning the "third vagrant" lyric, vagrant also means wanderer. And the word "planet" is derived from a Greek word that means wanderer.
I find it interesting that Floor choose to sing this pretty much in Tarja's style. She usually put's her own take on old Nightwish songs but this is pretty close to the original. Love both versions.
For real, I expected her to dip into her chest voice with glottal compression that she does in other Tarja era songs (like during the bridge parts of Ghost Love Score or the verse of Dark Chest of Wonders). Floor is just an absolute weapon of a singer.
I'd love to see Doug take a dip into the End of an Era DVD shows an weigh in on Tarjaa's work with Nightwish. I like Floor an she seems more vested as a fit for the band yet I also came to know Nightwish while Tarja was their singer an she was captivating enough to draw me in as a forever fan for Nightwish. An Floor is equally great at carrying the torch onward as their main vocalist/performer, I forget and could be wrong, Floor was Tarja's understudy? or backup in case of emergencies? I know they both were part of the band at one point.
I think it served the song better that she went with the operatic style all throughout and the reason is not that it sounds like Tarja's singing. For example, Ghost Love Score, in my opinion, benefited from the smorgasbord of styles Floor sings it in. Wouldn't have worked here, I don't think.
@@khymaaren I completely agree that she made the right style choice to fit the song and I am sure she did so for that reason not out of any desire to sound like Tarja.
@@rnowak85 Does any of her performance strike you as wanting to sound like someone else? From what I've seen and heard her, I sense a lot more artistic integrity to do a simple copy. And Tarja "fans" will tell you that she didn't even come close to the original performance. Ah, well. You can't please everyone.
Double kick is meant to be experienced live with a proper setup. Not sure how much oomph your headphones give, but the tone of the bass guitar is also quite present. Combined with solid double bass and Floor's awesome high notes makes for a terrific assault on the senses.
Yeah its all about the live experience with the double kick, you "feel" it as much as hear it.
Especially with Bose... They are not pure, but rather boost areas for the wow factor. He needs some studio Audio Technica or something.
Double kick is very needed!
To me the double kick also gives the feeling of forward movement
@@dakken74 Yeah, when I first encountered double kick in a song, I thought it sounded like a tractor (that agricultural machine) and did not like it much. I got used to it over the years :-)
In old astronomy texts, "vagrants" were the planets as they seemed to wander the sky. "3rd vagrant" is of course, the Earth.
Pretty good poetry for someone whose first language is NOT English, isn't it? Tuomas' word skills are immense, as is his "general" knowldege - not to mention his awesome musical skills. Thanks for the reaction, Doug.
Floor is a Dutch and a vocal coach
I often think that Tuomas' tendancy to phrase things in ways a native speaker probably never would actually makes his poetry better, and certainly makes it stand out.
@@petebateman143 he seems quite the Shakespeare fan too, so has probably picked up some old modes from that. I often wonder if when he's writing he writes/thinks in English or Finnish or maybe a bit of both.
Oh ,so much nostalgia with this song and whole album
Oceanborn is one of the best album in whole genre. Love it
It's really nice to see Metal, of all types, getting it's due recognition on channels like this. Many are brilliant lyricists and musicians.
This!!!
Double kick is always twice as effective as the single kick
it’s the reason drummers have two feet
Exactly
@@davemc8021 *most drummers*
I think he doesn’t get it cuz it’s a metal thing, you kinda have to be like into metal to understand the purpose of double kicks.
More is more.
"Shudder Before the Beautiful" from the Endless Forms Most Beautiful album 2015 is about the Earth as well. And us, the voyagers.
"The music of this awe
Deep silence between the notes
Deafens me with endless love
This vagrant island Earth
A pilgrim shining bright
We are shuddering
Before the beautiful
Before the plentiful
We, the voyagers"
I was just checking out a Mike Nagoda reaction. He was recommending everyone to go check out your channel. This is not my first time here. I totally agree with him. you know your musical theory and so much more. Perfect pitch? Back in the early days Nightwish was more of a power metal band. Thus the double bass in this song, which is very common in power metal. Love your insights both musically and lyrically. Hope you are doing great my friend.
My take on a couple of the lines in this song:
Quiet Hydrogen lakes = stars are big balls of hydrogen, and there is no sound in the vacuum of space.
Ambrosial merry-go-round = planets orbiting stars.
Ephemeral life touched by a billion year show = Earth only had single-celled life a billion years ago ("ephemeral" life), and one billion years later there are millions of multicellular species (animals, plants, fungi) on earth. I love this band because they understand evolution and turn it into poetry.
Hydrogen can't be liquefied, except under very extreme conditions. 😀
@@bradleystone2623 This is probably poetic license. What is your take on the meaning of hydrogen lakes?
@@bradleystone2623 actual stars have it in liquid condition :)
@@lnlnd not molecular hydrogen.
@@bradleystone2623 Indeed! It's a high-density high-energy plasma of hydrogen ions (H+). Though, in terms of mechanics, it's closer to liquid than a gas :)
Double kick drum strikes again! On the nature theme, I think you would love "Ice Queen" or "Mother Earth" by Within Temptation, a band you haven't given a listen yet Doug. They're one of the big figures in symphonic metal, along with Nightwish and Epica.
Always remember…. This was written for Tarja. Written with her voice in Tuomas’ head. Floor walks out and simply OWNS that song. Just crushes it. She is the greatest female vocalist of our time……
💙💙💙All Hail Floor !! 💙💙💙
Infantryman-Nightwish Army. US Regiment. Kentucky Battalion
RIP Ann Waychoff-Commanding General-Nightwish Army
Floor is awesome, but this sounds better with Tarja.
@@King_Conan I agree. Floor is probably the best female singer of all time. A 5 tool player if she was a baseball player. But, IMO, the original version with Tarja just sounds smoother which is funny 'cause I wasn't a big fan of her style "cause I found it to be over the top at times when maybe she should've dialed it back.
@@alexojeda9048 Yep, I was a huge Nightwish fan way back when Oceanborn was their latest album, and the uniqueness of Tarja's vocals made it so interesting but also too much for me at times. But now looking back I do appreciate it more than ever. Really nostalgic over the music scence from Scandinavia in the 90s in general.
This probably represents the band in its power metal mood. There the say floating vocal melodies are typical over fast playing with double bass drum kick. Early Sonata Arctica is a great example of that style for example.
Surely you've learned by now that Tuomas is an amazing lyricist and composer. And I saw how you sneaked a short Carl Sagan quote in there.
This is a marvelous song, but I'm constantly intrigued by how Tuomas's writing has evolved. Counterpoint has become more complex, and the same goes for the orchestration...both for the band and for the backing tracks (I know he works with someone else on the orchestral orchestration, but still....).
Tuomas composes the orchestral parts with keyboard workstation. Nowdays he uses Korg Kronos and says everything can be done with it. Then those orchestral demos are arranged to real orchestra because Tuomas wants the real deal. Pip Williams is the orchestral arranger (he is a professional in this field) who works closely with Tuomas to bring his vision alive. First album where they used orchestra was their 4th album Century Child and they used Joensuu orchestra from Finland. Next album Once (2004) was the first time they used the London Philharmonic and have been working with them since. Tuomas also worked with Pip and the London orchestra on his orchestral/soundtrack solo album too.
@@lekalla I compose straight on with software that allows me to orchestrate as I write...but it's just a hobby with me. Unfortunately, the London Phil hasn't come calling to do any live performances ;).
This song was my first encounter with Nightwish. And as for the double kick, I had a period around my highschool in 90's when I listened to metal only using these double kick carpets - Helloween, Gamma Ray, Stratovarius, Hammer fall, Manowar, Runnig willd and many many others speed and powermetal ... and I didn't think if it is good or bad ... I just liked it. And I don't mind listening to it today - as I have this song fixed to 90's I find this just correct.
" around my highschool in 90's when I listened to metal only using these double kick carpets - Helloween, Gamma Ray, Stratovarius, Hammer fall, Manowar, Runnig willd and many many others speed and powermetal "
same here.
@@rogeriopenna9014 I'm another one of those guys.
This is also the first sing I've heard. It was a song on a free CD coming with a magazine.
Oceanborn blew my mind when I listened to it as I was first getting into metal many years ago. It was something so special and so different, a mixture of metal and classical music unlike any other I had found before. To this day, I very much prefer Nightwish's early stuff to their current stuff (which, while very good from a compositive and production point of view, appeals to me far less).
Out of this album, I'm very, very curious what you'd think of The Pharaoh sails to Orion, especially the live version in From wishes to eternity with Tapio Wilska.
I really enjoyed this one because of the additional analysis of the lyrics.
As to the double kick, I'm not sure what your problem is. Double kick is standard in metal. It might be double bass drums, or a single bass drum with left and right beaters.
Might just be Doug's personal preference. Not everyone likes the same things. :)
Such poetic storytelling! What perspective! I especially love the concept "eyes of the night". I only discovered Nightwish about 3 weeks ago, drawn to their technical expertise and captivated by the lyrical use of 'ocean' in Ghost Love Score. Now 72, I confess to avoiding an introduction to metal - give me my rock & roll & blues - until hearing an acoustic ballad version of Alice in Chains' Nutshell about a year ago. So now whenever a friend recommends checking out a band or song, I do it. And here I am, a huge fan searching out Nightwish's entire catalogue. There are so many aspects of this band's musical expertise that I want to comment on but as I've gone on too long already, I'll save them til later except to say compositions based on the wonders of our natural world get me every time.
"Oceanborn" is the album that got me into Nightwish in 98'...BTW, one of my all-time favorite bands and Oceanborn is still my favorite album by them. Nothing against Floor, she is an incredible singer, but I HIGHLY recommend listening to the original version sung by Tarja. I love Floor's version...but I love Tarja's even more.
Doug: "I REALLY love those double bass drums!"
.
.
.
.
.
Me: *wakes up
lol
Wow they are good...AND foreign! AND Finnish! Hei. Kiitos! Mitä kuuluu? (Hello. Thanks. How are you?) It is one of my favorite languages, and it is so great that they are so great. What a performance! What a show! Gonna hafta roll up for that one!
Peace, Love and Progressive 12-tone serialism!
A wild tune indeed, little keyboard solo in groovy 80's tone, absolute favorite 🤟
Doug, you really need to check out some of their earlier ballads as well, like Sleeping Sun or Walking in The Air. Tarja does a magnificent job!
nobody touches earlier works of NW nowadays... :(
@@karelmarkvart1517 right? Me - "ohhh someone is reacting to ghost love score!" UA-cam - it's only ever Floor. She's good and all, but doesn't have the same classical technique, which has a special place in my heart as I myself have studied voice.
@@timothyfunk1883 Floor's Wacken performance of GLS is far better than any of Tarja's. That's why it's the most requested. And I'm not just simply a Floor fanboy (even though I am). I much prefer versions with Tarja for specific songs. Floor kills Tarja for GLS though
Congratulations on 150K subscribers, you bring so much joy to so many folks.
Hey Doug! Your Nightwish vids are great, the compositional, chords, key change insights are the UA-cam's best.
I became a fan; by accident, some 20 years ago with Tarja as the singer. Back then Tuomas was a short haired teen, not sure whether he should keep going with this rock and roll stuff. He essentially came up with these lyrics as a - small town Finnish, on the Russian border - teen doubting if he should continue!
Your original doubts in the Ghost Score was kind of funny to watch, yet seeing you really getting 'it' is a true thrill for me.
Plus educational as a musician, writer myself.
Thank you!
Somehow I'm not really sure Doug is really getting, how the double kick drum is used in power metal. At least to my ear its not so much precussive or rythm element, as much more an additional bass layer populating the lower registers, as foundation for the melody.
If Doug into the poetic Nightwish songs, I would think 'Song Of Myself' would be a must to check out.
He has expressed his dislike for double drums every time they appear. He should just give up on power metal and the likes like early Nightwish.
What's interesting is the double kick in power metal is more subdued than in thrash metal. Like you said, it simply adds a layer to the bass, while in thrash it's much more percussive and stands out. I like the use of it in both but I can see how someone might not like how strong it is in thrash, but in this it's pretty harmless in my opinion. Doug doesn't earn his full metal badge until he appreciates the double kick. LOL
@@martine7456 I'm also not a big fan of the "monotonous" double kick that is used in a lot of metal. I prefer more dynamics/variation in drumming and using the double kick as an "effect" (e.g. One with Metallica). Maybe Doug is the same. However, I enjoyed this song anyway and I think Doug gave a very nuanced review of this song regardless. I think we just have to accept that people have different preferences and it's possible to like a song even though all elements are not to your preference.
@@jes99003 it's all good. To each their own. Thing is that you can't have power metal without double kick drums, specially in power metal in the 90s. It's what defines the genre and the first thing that comes to mind when you think about that music. Early nightwish took a lot from power metal in oceanborn.
It's the same as critizing black metal or death metal because of harsh vocals, or pop songs because they (mostly) all follow pachabels cannon in d progressions or 4/4 time signatures. Or Prog rock songs for being ten minutes long.
There are things that are so ingrained in their genre that criticising them is a bit, I dont know, pointless.
@@jes99003 I don't think "monotonous" double kick disallows for dynamics/variation in the drumming otherwise. If you take a band like Meshuggah the double-kick simply doubles the rhythm of the guitar riffs, which allows drummer Haake to do all kinds of wild things with his hands that play against the rhythm of the guitars/bass. In power metal I think the double-kick is mostly there to emphasize the driving nature of the tempo.
I wish Stargazers had been reviewed with Tarja on vocals.... "Dead Boy’s Poem” next time maybe? Also, I would like to see review of "Phantom Of The Opera" from "End of an Era" DVD
He's reacted to Phantom already
@@davidellinsworth22 so I guess I had missed that
WOW! A really old Nightwish song!
Annette didn't had the voice for this song. So that's why it wasn't on their setlist for 10 years. I've used this as my 'wake up song' so often. It energizes me.
Written for Tarja's voice - yet Floor nails it effortlessly. (She gives Tuomas a whole new instrument to work with, and boy does he run with it!)
Would love to see a reaction to Epica's Kingdom of Heaven Part 3 - Omega Alive. Also a great example of how more sparingly used double kick can really boost those climactic moments.
Second this!
Favourite Nightiwsh album, favourite Nightwish song
Actually, the most famous oracle was the one in Delphi.
First! Great to have Nightwish back Doug! Keep up the good work... We love it!
Always appreciate your thoroughness Doug. Have some catching up to do on your recent videos, but Nightwish takes precedence for me ;)
Great reaction as usual , TY
The "dew-spangled cobweb" is the universe as a whole. Superclusters of galaxies tend to fall together into weird strands that look a lot like attic cobwebs that nobody's dealt with in a while.
I love your good explanation. I can still learn something from this.
Thank You for that.
I think it's a Fantastic song,
with the voice of FLOOR.
Of course, the other Band members are also great 😍
Love from the Netherlands
❤️ 🤍 💙 🇳🇱 🙋🏼♀️
Its an amazing song, thanks for promoting it.
I'm a simple soul, and have loved the music of Nightwish since I discovered them back in 2000.
Watching Dr. Doug go scientific on the music, telling me it's really complex and intelligent is kinda fun.
Great stuff. I know zero about the technicalities of music yet find your analyses fascinating!! And of course Nightwish are the best band in world right now imo. I'd love to see you react to their tribute to Pink Floyd's High Hopes (live End of an Era).... Not sure how much of Pink Floyd you know, but it may be worth listening to Floyd's Pulse Remastered version before you tackle Nightwish's version). All the best Doug
Thanks for this Doug. Can never get enough of Floor Jansen. She is one of the best metal vocalists regardless of gender. Another couple great prog tunes to check out are Seventh Wonder’s epic track “The Great Escape” and also Circus Maximus’s “Architect of Fortune”. As always, thanks so much for all the great information.
double kick might not be your thing, but for me that rhythm with the snare accenting the 3rd and 7th give that high octane, energy driving beat that drives these concerts (agreed if you use it exclusively it loses its momentum).
fascinating reaction!
Thanks for the explanation of certain words. Thomas repeats himself by using them. It's another layer in the music of NW. You have to be eclectic to know all the details. Nerdic fun!
Blackmores Night - child in time
Basically the double kick is kinda to be taken as a second guitar going. Its not to be as upfront as most percussion. Depending on how you might have your sound setting it could make them more standoutish than they should be which can make them annoying. I think its mostly you are trying to analyze the song more closely that might give a bit of a different view of them than most as they are normally put into powermetal songs as a listen and go with the song. Most other songs can be like a trolley ride where you take in the sounds, where as powermetal is the rollercoaster where the vocals and guitar is the main focus or the dips and curves in the track.
To that point, this was a live version which does not have a rhythm guitar during guitar melodies. On the album the double kicks are better supported by left and right Rhythm guitars. Here they sound kind of lonely. A studio version usually is the better choice, as live sound is always full of compromise.
It'd be lovely if you could react to some more of Yngwie Malmsteen live with the Japanese orchestra, some really great pieces in there, like Cavallino Rampante and Presto Vivace.
Dark Moor - Dies Irae
you'll love the double bass kick
Beautiful song for a great band !! Ohhh Nightwish I miss you
Hey Doug, Delfian does not mean what you think it means. Delfian in this context is of Delphs, they're talking about the old greek oracle from the city.
Doug, great musical and lyrical breakdown. Floor is an awesome singer, operatic I'd say.
Brilliant stuff
Oh, this is old Nightwish, always a treat with some nostalgia :)
Hey Doug, great video! I’ve recently watched Sabaton’s new video “Christmas Truce” and I think you should react to this amazing song and video. Sabaton’s drummer Hannes is Floor’s husband and this song is about one of the greatest examples of humanity in modern history. The Christmas truce of 1914. I know you probably have a list of songs to react to, but this video should be put at the top of the list. Anyway, I hope you’re having a wonderful holiday season!
This shows quite well what the initial idea for Nightwish was - a Power Metal band (fast, lots of constant hard beats and rythms, and easily gettable melody guitar lines) paired with the operatc vocals that Tarja was studying originally.
Literally the nucleus of the Symphonic Metal genre, but (at least to my ears) without a lot of the sophistication and grandeur it would soon embody.
This is quite direct and obvious in its use of musical tools.
Double kick can be very effective if used in the right way. Constant double kick is pretty useless but lies in that genre. One right way for the double kick is when you have it in the climax of a song. For example, try the post-rock song GOD IS AN ASTRONAUT - SUICIDE BY STAR. There you can see (hear) what I mean.
I totally agree with you and I understand that you express your opinion but I think there is no objective "right way" in any form of art.
Another good use of the double kick, in my opinion, is One by Metallica.
@@jes99003 Of course there is no objective right way. It's just a matter of opinion and taste which I stated here. When I was younger the Nightwish way of doing this totally worked for me.
Great video as always, Doug. A few more classic Nightwish:
Beauty and the Beast (from "Angels Fall First", 1996)
Wanderlust (from "Wishmaster", 2000)
Dead Boy's Poem (also from "Wishmaster", 2000)
Bless the Child (from "Century Child", 2002)
Slaying the Dreamer (from "Century Child", 2002)
Beauty of the Beast (from "Century Child", 2002)
And you already did "Ghost Love Score" from "Once" so that's fine, then. I've tried to pick songs that have at least a key change, dabble with modes, or have sections that are different from other sections.
Planet means wanderer in Greek. Hence vagrant.
Stargazers is from 1998... by the time of the Endless Forms Most Beautiful World Tour, it was 17 years already in the setlist.
My husband agrees with you on the double kick. I like it, but to each their own.
It would be very nice if you listen the song Estranged by Guns n' Roses. I'm sure that you will like it. It's very beautiful epic song with one of the most incredible guitar solo in the Rock history. All the electric guitar players in the world know this song. It has two parts in it and two culminations at the end. It has very classical structure I think.
Double kick is kind of an "acquired taste" like coffee.
Some like it very bitter like an espresso (extreme) and some like it with milk (with moderation).
Do Epica. lol I think you'll like the operatic style of them. I love metal women! Lacuna Coil would be interesting too. Cristina Scabbia has one of the best voices ever.
Floor is crazy. The entire Nightwish is crazy.
Next Nightwish song, Beauty and the beast, from the first album called Angels fall first. It was so super song that I've been listening Nightwish ever since. It was the song that did get media interested with this new band, back in the day, here in Finland. And the rest is history.
the merry go round could be our orbits around the sun.
Can you please do a breakdown/reaction to Language I & II by The Contortionist. As a classical composer i think you'll really come to appreciate the band. They are absolutely godly when it comes to layering sounds and chords.
Doug, don't be worried about backing up when pausing or whenever you're hearing something special. It actually helps us when you go into detailed breakdowns.
So the Tarja vs Floor for Nightwish fans go as deep as the Fish vs Hogarth for Marillion?
Doug and Megan's only Nightwish is to be a stargazer.
✨🖤
✨🖤
There is about 5000 or more people there that like the double kick, just depends on what you do or dont like
I love double kicks, I was raised on them with Helloween. :)
I just gotta say, about the dubbel kicking. Its something special to hear live. It is hard to explain, you can feel it in your chest, it gets you hyped up.These days, even at 40 years old, it gets me diving into mosh pits. It is hard to explain, but I guess you have to be receptive to it as well. Each to their own, as they say.
Double kick is as double kick does, and it works in this song.
I simply love "Oceanborn" era!
hi. there's still one really long Pink Floyd song, that you haven't reacted to; that's Shine On You Crazy Diamond. it's on the Wish You Were Here, Album, in 2 parts. the fist track, and the last track. that makes it about 25 minutes long it's one of their best, IMHO. i'd love to see what you thought about it, as i've always wanted to know what classical musicians think about their work, especially the longer songs. Echoes is my favourite PF song, especially the version you reacted to. this is certainly up there, as one of their best
Re: "vagrant" - The word "planet" means "wanderer"...
That's some good classical speed metal 💪
Double kick is life!
A real Nightwish classic. I have listened to it many times in the first Tarja edition 🙂
Hello Doug, I would love you to react to Gethsemane, live in Buenos Aires; Tuomas uses parts of classical composers and I’d like to hear from you which composers😀🤗 Greetings from the Netherlands🇾🇪
I think double kicks is just not your thing. And that's alright! Me as drummer like it, it inspires power.
Have you listened to instrumedley by Dream Theater? It's a instrumental ride, a show in itself
This double kick is driving me crazy.. hahaha!
Manowar-Heart of steel (with orchestra or not)
While I love Floor (and have been a fan of hers since the early days of After Forever and with Ayreon), you really should give a listen to Tarja. If you want to check out some of her own tunes, I think you might enjoy I Walk Alone (from My Winter Storm).
I'd really love to hear your analysis of Auri 1 and 2, as well as The Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck, both by Tuomas. In addition to more NW of course.
Why is steady flow of double kick drums different than a steady flow of single kick drums? 16th notes vs 8th notes.
for me the double kick is just a rythm. the surprise is the moment when it stops. So sudden lacking of double kick is for me the "thing"
Doug being bothered by double bass drums on a power metal song will never get old xd.
You really need to check out the band Rhapsody (now Rhapsody of Fire). Epic film score metal, check out the song Gargoyles, Angels of Darkness.
Good choice, Floor is on the 2015 recording, not original studio recording.
I would like to recommend you to react to the Epica's 3 Kingdom of heaven songs
Absolutely!
Never been a big Nightwish fan. A friend of mine who regularly went to the Wacken festival every year lent me some albums. Tried listening but I find a lot of the songs a bit disjointed. However this one is great and even made it onto my iPod.
Lo dicho, Doug se centra en las letras cuando no le interesa tanto la música. Long live to double kick X)
Within Temptation - Mother Earth