The Children of Húrin, "a story which can truly be summarised as: and then everyone dies" 😂 too true mate. People think George R.R. Martin is brutal?! Read The Silmarillion!
If Tolkien was half as brutal as Martin Frodo would've died in the Fellowship of the Ring, Sam would've become a murderous psychopath out of vengeance and Aragorn would've ended up being the true villain at the end. The two shouldn't really be compared tbh, Tolkien created a fantasy world as a vehicle to demonstrate his moral beliefs, GRRM created an inversion of this, a realistic world (with fantasy elements) to brutally traumatise us with it's harshness. I've always felt they were basically polar opposites in terms of style, though you can certainly appreciate both
@@wraithface4410 I personally didn't hate season 8 (although I do acknowledge it had lots of flaws). But if GRRM actually finishes ASOIAF, I feel that will restore some people's faith in the world of Westeros
Tolkien was an officer he tells someone to do something and doesn't trouble himself with telling them how, why, where, when something must be done only with the command of what should be done. It comes accross with something must be good, something must be evil and everyone else just gets on with life in the situation they find themselves in. It is enough that people have money and use it. Tolkien doesn't tell you the economic situation of Gondor and Rohan. It is enough to describe the mood of the settlements and rulers. Martin tells you the relative value of coins, the finances of the thrown and all through the eyes of a parcimonious honourable man, then a merchant banker and then again from playboy learning high finance for the first time. He also tells you the King doesn't have an interest in the finances of the realm only spending money on entertainment and whoring when he is not hunting. Tolkien would have someone like Gandalf say Robert is an unworthy and uninterested king, the realm suffers from it, as well as from his corrupt councilours. Many hardships lie in wait for this realm.
The dying years of the First Age can be summed up as 'Kill that one maniac among us who will get us to give ourselves away to Morgoth/commit suicide by orc/kill each other over a shiny rock etc.' before he can do so.
The thing to keep in mind is that many of the self-destructive acts were simply the curse on the Noldor and in particular the curse on the house of feanor playing out. Its important to keep in mind that beyond the tactical battles, you had the will of the Valar (including Morgoth) playing into all these events. As was kind of shown with Hurin and his children, the Vala could apparently bring comprehensive ruin on anyone they focused on. As Tolkien once said, the whole of middle earth was "Morgoth's ring". And beyond just the physical battles he was organizing, he was operating at a whole other level to corrupt, control and drive his very essence into middle earth.
Was this a curse as in the hex sense, more popular in fairy tales, or in the Biblical sense, where one deals with the long-term consequences of one's foolishness without divine intervention to save them? I like the illustration Todd Frial on Wretched Radio once used, using the "curse till the fourth generation" bit from the Bible: He compared the life of an infamous criminal and a famous preacher. On the Criminal's side, many of his descendants went on to grow up in bad families, become criminals and prostitutes and generally lived shorter, sadder lives, while on the Preachers sides, many of his descendants became successful, either as preachers, scholars, businessmen, etc. There was no hex involved, but as generations repeated the foolishness of their progenitor, they continued to get sad results. The elves face the same problem. We can laud Feanor and Fingolfin for doing something awesome in taking a whole nation and going after Morgoth, but in truth, it was a bad idea on par with bringing Dinosaurs back and featuring them in an island amusement park. They were warned beforehand that an elf simply could not hope to win against a Valar, nor could legions of elves defeat that Valar when he had far more legions of orcs, along with a bodyguard of literal fire demons and a nigh-impenetrable fortress. They needed the Valars' help, but having rebelled and slaughtered their Teleri neighbors, they were cut off from divine intervention until a human came to plead for men and elves, and in the intervening generations, they were slowly whittled down. As for the tragedy, it still strikes me as the elves own foolishness playing itself out. They followed Feanor right up until they he led them to massacre their cousins, and then hoped they could maintain themselves without treachery, even as the oath already proved Feanor's house to be morally compromised. Throw in their willingness to trust and increasingly rely on man, a species that had been born under Morgoth's darkness and were never shown the light by the Valar, and you can see how they were setting themselves up for a long defeat.
From the Battle of Unumbered Tears through the Third Kinslaying is was the Dark Age for the free people of middle earth and Morgoth winning and laughter.
Awesome video :) This part of the Tolkiens Legendarium shows one thing, that I love about the professors writing: The motivations of the characters. It's so interesting to see, how all those emotions and decisions shape the world, the people and the history of Arda.
Thanks very much once more good Sir! I love the fact Tolkien wrote his stories in the old style of High Fantasy. The incredible Highs were always counter-balanced by devastating Lows. The tales of magnificent Heroes always circumvented by dastardly Villains. More often in current fantastical stories, there always seems to be the focus on the morally gray character. As if presenting true heroism is deemed too unlikely or even believable and presenting true villainy isn't providing the character sufficient understanding for their faults and weaknesses. Whist such portrayals have their place of course, I feel we are being robbed of examples to aspire to in life and those to be shunned and despised, when almost ALL the main characters are so painted. I think (and sincerely prefer) Tolkien's portrayals, as they are what keep his writings in the very top-tier of literature, especially in the genre of High Fantasy escapism.
@@TheDeadlyKnight i mean you are right, but that approach has been done before, for instance infinity war, thanos won flat out in that film, and in the end Morgoth does eventually get defeated, but with a massive cost of course
He is in the Silmarillion, but Christopher Tolkien lists this as a mistake, and that Tolkien's final view on the matter is that he was Orodreth's son. Likewise, while Orodreth is a son of Finarfin in the Silmarillion, Tolkien decided that instead he would be a grandson through Angrod.
Well done mate. Well done. I actually prefer learning about all of the wars before The War of The Ring, since those aren’t obviously covered in the original trilogy.
Just discovered your channel! Just wanted to say thanks for taking the time and effort to make these videos and i look forward to going through them and any new one you make.
Thanks for this great video! It is a sad point in the history of middle earth. I will say, no one said elves can be evil. It is just they have centuries to learn from their dumb mistakes. Hence why they are patient with the other races. Their culture also helps pass on wisdom. but yes, one man's pride caused a lot of damage. However, let's not forget Morgoth was the big jerk too.
What I want to know is why was Elwing ready to chuck herself into the ocean just to keep that cursed gem? Even her sons seemed less important than keeping that bloody rock.
I think it was done in defiance of the sons of Feanor. They had won the battle, slaughtered her people, and taken her sons captive, but their actual purpose was still the Silmaril. Their victory was incomplete without it.
Gil-galad had a few different fathers. Tolkien's earliest notes had him down as Finrod's son, but that never made it to published works. Christopher Tolkien then had him as Fingon's son in the Silmarillion, but later admitted it to be an editorial mistake. Tolkien seemed to have finally decided on Orodreth, and simultaneously changed Orodreth's parentage to Angrod, instead of Finarfin.
Morgoth: (literally spends most of 50 years fiddling his fingers). Free peoples: (betray and murder each other like it's a sport). Morgoth: I'm the smartest being in the world...by default I guess.
@@morgant.dulaman8733 Manwë - willing to spend eternity in Valinor twiddling his fingers, until Eru reminds him he has a duty to keep his brother in check.
After much confusion, Christopher Tolkien settled on Orodreth as making the most sense and presenting the fewest problems and inconsistencies. This is spoken about in several articles and interviews :)
The Silmarillion states that Gil-galad was the son of Fingon. Despite Christopher Tolkien I believe Fingon's parentage would make more sense since the Royal Line was in the house of Fingolfin. However, I am not an expert and don't own many of the works of Tolkien.
I’ve always wondered: How was it that Morgoth was able to not only curse Hurin and his family, but make a curse so powerful it seemed to effect others just by association? I thought curses and blessings were the solely under the power/approval of Eru.
At the beginning of the silmarillion I'm pretty sure Eru tells Melkor something of the like "everything in Arda happens according to my will, including your actions"
Eru's blessings and oaths are absolute and unchangeable. Whereas Morgoth's curse seems so powerful becz of his celestial will power and the Hurins' own foolishness. It is also implied that Morgoth orchestrated the whole Nargothrond Invasion and instructed Glaurung to make it seem like his curse absolutely came true.
Great research and presentation! However, it's probably worth noting that you might want to try to also research your artwork and imagery and attempt to give credit to the Artists for their use, and present a disclaimer of ownership for any you can't find, offering credits if they contact you. The alternative is that an Art Moderator, a peer or a fan who sees them may contact the artist, who will attempt to contact you. if you do not respond, UA-cam will be obligated to start pulling your videos for copyright violations. Also, you might want to read my previous comment on the use of vulgarity and the common vernacular if you ever entertained the notion of monetizing and obtaining sponsors. And here you thought this was all just fun and games.
Hey bud interesting take on morgoth you have. i think there is a few points you make that are wrong so i would like you to not do that next time. perhaps if we collab i can take away you're mistakes. looking forward to discuss
Gil-Galad is not the son of Orodreth because if he was he would be in Nargothrond. Gil-Galad is the son of Fingon and I don't care what Christopher Tolkien says.
for such a big fan of tolkien, it is incredibly disturbing how much you can butcher every single name in tolkien's world. It's not like it's very difficult, both the silmarillion and the lord of the rings appendices have a very helpful guide and there are many resources online. A native english speaker such as yourself should be having a field day with the pronunciation, yet any foreign speaker would put you to shame.
I'm aware that I mispronounce certain names. I get pulled up on "Maedhros" a lot, but the unfortunate reality is that I have a lisp that makes it difficult to pronounce the "th" sound properly. I also can't roll the "r". In the end, I'd rather have the script sound natural and free-flowing instead of strange and stilted because I'm struggling to pronounce certain words.
@@DarthGandalfYT That's not even that, those are details about your accent. You don't need to roll your Rs or pronounce a perfect voiced dental fricative (I always thought it was acceptable anyways). What I mean is sometimes it shows that you really didn't do your research on how it should sound like, for example, can you explain why you butchered Tuor's name so badly in this video? I can tell you never ever looked it up, because assuming you don't roll the r at the end, it should be easy to pronounce, yet you sound like a glitched robot. The minimum you can do is make it sound correct, you don't need to be perfect.
![The Dragons of Middle-earth [COMPILATION]](/img/n.gif)
Everyone else in the Silmarillion: Sacrifices their life and is gone forever.
Glorfindel: I'm going to do what's called a pro-gamer move.
Respawn in 1 minute
“The sons of Feanor are still lurking around.”
I like the choice of wording here
The Children of Húrin, "a story which can truly be summarised as: and then everyone dies" 😂 too true mate. People think George R.R. Martin is brutal?! Read The Silmarillion!
If Tolkien was half as brutal as Martin Frodo would've died in the Fellowship of the Ring, Sam would've become a murderous psychopath out of vengeance and Aragorn would've ended up being the true villain at the end.
The two shouldn't really be compared tbh, Tolkien created a fantasy world as a vehicle to demonstrate his moral beliefs, GRRM created an inversion of this, a realistic world (with fantasy elements) to brutally traumatise us with it's harshness.
I've always felt they were basically polar opposites in terms of style, though you can certainly appreciate both
@@AeneasGemini lotr is much better than game of thrones in retrospect
@@wraithface4410 I personally didn't hate season 8 (although I do acknowledge it had lots of flaws).
But if GRRM actually finishes ASOIAF, I feel that will restore some people's faith in the world of Westeros
Tolkien was an officer he tells someone to do something and doesn't trouble himself with telling them how, why, where, when something must be done only with the command of what should be done. It comes accross with something must be good, something must be evil and everyone else just gets on with life in the situation they find themselves in. It is enough that people have money and use it. Tolkien doesn't tell you the economic situation of Gondor and Rohan. It is enough to describe the mood of the settlements and rulers.
Martin tells you the relative value of coins, the finances of the thrown and all through the eyes of a parcimonious honourable man, then a merchant banker and then again from playboy learning high finance for the first time. He also tells you the King doesn't have an interest in the finances of the realm only spending money on entertainment and whoring when he is not hunting. Tolkien would have someone like Gandalf say Robert is an unworthy and uninterested king, the realm suffers from it, as well as from his corrupt councilours. Many hardships lie in wait for this realm.
@@AeneasGemini what season 8?
The dying years of the First Age can be summed up as 'Kill that one maniac among us who will get us to give ourselves away to Morgoth/commit suicide by orc/kill each other over a shiny rock etc.' before he can do so.
Nah bruh why focus on defeating the guy that literally wants to end life when there's a shiny stone
@@shef7074 Because only one elf had the stones to fight Melkor, everyone else had to go look for some.
The thing to keep in mind is that many of the self-destructive acts were simply the curse on the Noldor and in particular the curse on the house of feanor playing out. Its important to keep in mind that beyond the tactical battles, you had the will of the Valar (including Morgoth) playing into all these events. As was kind of shown with Hurin and his children, the Vala could apparently bring comprehensive ruin on anyone they focused on.
As Tolkien once said, the whole of middle earth was "Morgoth's ring". And beyond just the physical battles he was organizing, he was operating at a whole other level to corrupt, control and drive his very essence into middle earth.
Was this a curse as in the hex sense, more popular in fairy tales, or in the Biblical sense, where one deals with the long-term consequences of one's foolishness without divine intervention to save them?
I like the illustration Todd Frial on Wretched Radio once used, using the "curse till the fourth generation" bit from the Bible: He compared the life of an infamous criminal and a famous preacher. On the Criminal's side, many of his descendants went on to grow up in bad families, become criminals and prostitutes and generally lived shorter, sadder lives, while on the Preachers sides, many of his descendants became successful, either as preachers, scholars, businessmen, etc. There was no hex involved, but as generations repeated the foolishness of their progenitor, they continued to get sad results.
The elves face the same problem. We can laud Feanor and Fingolfin for doing something awesome in taking a whole nation and going after Morgoth, but in truth, it was a bad idea on par with bringing Dinosaurs back and featuring them in an island amusement park. They were warned beforehand that an elf simply could not hope to win against a Valar, nor could legions of elves defeat that Valar when he had far more legions of orcs, along with a bodyguard of literal fire demons and a nigh-impenetrable fortress. They needed the Valars' help, but having rebelled and slaughtered their Teleri neighbors, they were cut off from divine intervention until a human came to plead for men and elves, and in the intervening generations, they were slowly whittled down.
As for the tragedy, it still strikes me as the elves own foolishness playing itself out. They followed Feanor right up until they he led them to massacre their cousins, and then hoped they could maintain themselves without treachery, even as the oath already proved Feanor's house to be morally compromised. Throw in their willingness to trust and increasingly rely on man, a species that had been born under Morgoth's darkness and were never shown the light by the Valar, and you can see how they were setting themselves up for a long defeat.
From the Battle of Unumbered Tears through the Third Kinslaying is was the Dark Age for the free people of middle earth and Morgoth winning and laughter.
Summary: Let's completely screw ourselves over because that bling is too good to resist.
Awesome video :) This part of the Tolkiens Legendarium shows one thing, that I love about the professors writing: The motivations of the characters. It's so interesting to see, how all those emotions and decisions shape the world, the people and the history of Arda.
Thanks very much once more good Sir!
I love the fact Tolkien wrote his stories in the old style of High Fantasy. The incredible Highs were always counter-balanced by devastating Lows. The tales of magnificent Heroes always circumvented by dastardly Villains. More often in current fantastical stories, there always seems to be the focus on the morally gray character. As if presenting true heroism is deemed too unlikely or even believable and presenting true villainy isn't providing the character sufficient understanding for their faults and weaknesses.
Whist such portrayals have their place of course, I feel we are being robbed of examples to aspire to in life and those to be shunned and despised, when almost ALL the main characters are so painted. I think (and sincerely prefer) Tolkien's portrayals, as they are what keep his writings in the very top-tier of literature, especially in the genre of High Fantasy escapism.
I love the jokes and comedy you gived to the video, it was great
I would love to see morgoth in a movie.
You have, many times, he's basically Satan
Me too
Personally I’d love it but it’d be a hard sell because a large chunk of his story is the absolute triumph of evil over the good guys
@@TheDeadlyKnight i mean you are right, but that approach has been done before, for instance infinity war, thanos won flat out in that film, and in the end Morgoth does eventually get defeated, but with a massive cost of course
nah, Melkor *produces* movies. mostly for Disney
Digging it. I don't know Middle Earth history very well and I have found this entertaining.
The Children of Hurin is one grim and magnificent portrayal of Middle Earth''s darkest hour.
new subscriber her😊😊😊😊😊😊........love your war in middle earth series!!!!! very informative and detailed......thank you so much!!!!🥰
I think Gil-Galad was the son of Fingon. Great video btw.
He is in the Silmarillion, but Christopher Tolkien lists this as a mistake, and that Tolkien's final view on the matter is that he was Orodreth's son. Likewise, while Orodreth is a son of Finarfin in the Silmarillion, Tolkien decided that instead he would be a grandson through Angrod.
next is the War of Wrath, the greatest battle in the history of Middle-Earth :)
Well, great vid again. Maaan i cant wait for next one, like for real
Well done mate. Well done. I actually prefer learning about all of the wars before The War of The Ring, since those aren’t obviously covered in the original trilogy.
Love your channel I can’t absorb enough Tolkien!! Any and everything especially second age all the way backwards!!
This was really well done. Bravo
Just discovered your channel! Just wanted to say thanks for taking the time and effort to make these videos and i look forward to going through them and any new one you make.
Thanks for this great video! It is a sad point in the history of middle earth.
I will say, no one said elves can be evil. It is just they have centuries to learn from their dumb mistakes. Hence why they are patient with the other races. Their culture also helps pass on wisdom.
but yes, one man's pride caused a lot of damage. However, let's not forget Morgoth was the big jerk too.
All the ones that couldn't learn from the mistakes were killed.
What I want to know is why was Elwing ready to chuck herself into the ocean just to keep that cursed gem? Even her sons seemed less important than keeping that bloody rock.
I think it was done in defiance of the sons of Feanor. They had won the battle, slaughtered her people, and taken her sons captive, but their actual purpose was still the Silmaril. Their victory was incomplete without it.
Elwing let her intrusive thoughts win
Awesome summary dude! Loving these videos
The comment about the naked guy in the waterfall makes the situation sound more sordid than it really was. Ha ha ha!
Great video my dude
Excellent
I think it's kinda weird that Gil-Galad is described as Fingon's son in the Silmarillion but apparently somewhere later as Orodreth's.
Gil-galad had a few different fathers. Tolkien's earliest notes had him down as Finrod's son, but that never made it to published works. Christopher Tolkien then had him as Fingon's son in the Silmarillion, but later admitted it to be an editorial mistake. Tolkien seemed to have finally decided on Orodreth, and simultaneously changed Orodreth's parentage to Angrod, instead of Finarfin.
Maybe they're all his father. What do we really know about how elves reproduce other than they take their time doing it?
My tactical genius is really shown in this video I am of course the smartest being in middle earth
lol. Begone foul Bauglir!!! Black foe of all free people
Morgoth: (literally spends most of 50 years fiddling his fingers).
Free peoples: (betray and murder each other like it's a sport).
Morgoth: I'm the smartest being in the world...by default I guess.
@@morgant.dulaman8733 Manwë - willing to spend eternity in Valinor twiddling his fingers, until Eru reminds him he has a duty to keep his brother in check.
This was brilliant!!! Lol @ pretty Dior 😭😆
Is this going by the untold stories or the Silmarillion proper?
I believe he went for the Silmarillion version
Can you do the aftermath of the destruction of the one ring! Mainly regarding the remaining Nazgül and the orcs after the end of the 3rd age!!!
That's alotta betrayal
Where do you find the artworks?
there needs to be more about morgoth
Isn't Gil-Galad the son of Fingon not Orodreth ?
After much confusion, Christopher Tolkien settled on Orodreth as making the most sense and presenting the fewest problems and inconsistencies. This is spoken about in several articles and interviews :)
The Silmarillion states that Gil-galad was the son of Fingon. Despite Christopher Tolkien I believe Fingon's parentage would make more sense since the Royal Line was in the house of Fingolfin. However, I am not an expert and don't own many of the works of Tolkien.
If there's a lesson to be learned, is that oaths are stupid.
Good video
Dior? J'adore.
What is the music at 3:07 ?
I agree that Thingol is a dick, despite being one of the original elven ambassadors.
I’ve always wondered: How was it that Morgoth was able to not only curse Hurin and his family, but make a curse so powerful it seemed to effect others just by association? I thought curses and blessings were the solely under the power/approval of Eru.
At the beginning of the silmarillion I'm pretty sure Eru tells Melkor something of the like "everything in Arda happens according to my will, including your actions"
Eru's blessings and oaths are absolute and unchangeable.
Whereas Morgoth's curse seems so powerful becz of his celestial will power and the Hurins' own foolishness. It is also implied that Morgoth orchestrated the whole Nargothrond Invasion and instructed Glaurung to make it seem like his curse absolutely came true.
Great research and presentation! However, it's probably worth noting that you might want to try to also research your artwork and imagery and attempt to give credit to the Artists for their use, and present a disclaimer of ownership for any you can't find, offering credits if they contact you. The alternative is that an Art Moderator, a peer or a fan who sees them may contact the artist, who will attempt to contact you. if you do not respond, UA-cam will be obligated to start pulling your videos for copyright violations. Also, you might want to read my previous comment on the use of vulgarity and the common vernacular if you ever entertained the notion of monetizing and obtaining sponsors. And here you thought this was all just fun and games.
Those words are only vulgar due to William the Bastard wanting the gentry to speak French.
Hey bud interesting take on morgoth you have. i think there is a few points you make that are wrong so i would like you to not do that next time. perhaps if we collab i can take away you're mistakes. looking forward to discuss
Gil-Galad is not the son of Orodreth because if he was he would be in Nargothrond. Gil-Galad is the son of Fingon and I don't care what Christopher Tolkien says.
for such a big fan of tolkien, it is incredibly disturbing how much you can butcher every single name in tolkien's world. It's not like it's very difficult, both the silmarillion and the lord of the rings appendices have a very helpful guide and there are many resources online. A native english speaker such as yourself should be having a field day with the pronunciation, yet any foreign speaker would put you to shame.
I'm aware that I mispronounce certain names. I get pulled up on "Maedhros" a lot, but the unfortunate reality is that I have a lisp that makes it difficult to pronounce the "th" sound properly. I also can't roll the "r". In the end, I'd rather have the script sound natural and free-flowing instead of strange and stilted because I'm struggling to pronounce certain words.
@@DarthGandalfYT That's not even that, those are details about your accent. You don't need to roll your Rs or pronounce a perfect voiced dental fricative (I always thought it was acceptable anyways). What I mean is sometimes it shows that you really didn't do your research on how it should sound like, for example, can you explain why you butchered Tuor's name so badly in this video? I can tell you never ever looked it up, because assuming you don't roll the r at the end, it should be easy to pronounce, yet you sound like a glitched robot. The minimum you can do is make it sound correct, you don't need to be perfect.