Archaeologist Reacts to America Unearthed: Scott Wolter is a Con Artist and This Show is Garbage
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- Опубліковано 15 жов 2024
- I've been good and pissed off about America Unearthed for at least a year now and I decided to air my grievances in reaction video format. Scott Wolter uses some extremely dishonest tactics to convince his audience that Minoans came to Michigan and took a metric buttload of copper back to the Mediterranean to fuel the bronze age some 5000 years ago. His math is bogus. His methods are ignorant. His arguments are invalid. I've had it with his Hancock-grade bullshit.
**CORRECTION**
Wolter's original career was as a concrete specialist, and he was apparently part of the analysis of the concrete at the World Trade Center after 9/11, which is how he claims to be a "Forensic Geologist." Forensics describes methodologies involved in criminal investigation. It does not apply to high-tech analytical methods outside of criminal investigation contexts.
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Prehistoric Copper Mining in North America:
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Ancient Coppersmiths of the Great Lakes: • Ancient Coppersmiths o...
Ancient Americas did a good summary of the Old Copper Complex here: • Old Copper Culture: No...
Jackson Crawford's analysis of the Kensington Runestone: • The Kensington Runesto...
No. He is a Templar and that is our history, the King James Bible, and Anglican traditions. You support Catholic garbage and lies!!! Thankfully we as an order do have proof of even the most outrageous claims made by those honorable gentlemen like Scott Wolter & Timothy Hogan. We literally spent billions of dollars keeping waste of skin embarrassments like you away from anything important. I can prove that statement too. Cheers
P.s. Did you poison yourself for the Vatican??? Please tell me you are vaccinated!
Because on the Jesus is god equation would literally poison you and every single person on earth than allow anyone to understand what they have done throughout history to the point me and mine had to hide for generations.
Somebody has been playing too much Assassin's Creed.
Just a side note, religion is not history, it's dogma. You can't recruit more suckers to you army or get more donations to your coffers with actual history.
Harsh
There is no jesus you fool.
@@ThatsFOKD you can prove it but you won’t?
37 minutes and 31 seconds of pure catharsis. Very well done! I never knew about this show so it's nice to know where some of these people get this garbage from. Any time I ask them for sources, 99% never respond and the ones that do typically share some "researchers" nonsense blog.
I aim to please.
"Its on google. Look it up"
I love debunking episodes.
The amount of misinformation being actively spread by various media outlets about a wide range of sciences infuriates me, so I'm delighted every time someone takes the time to tear one of them apart.
Gutsick Gibbon!
3:49 I'm here for your "tone" and am loving it.
The thing that no one seems to mention throughout this whole thing was that the real "limiting factor" resource-wise of the Bronze Age (if there was such a thing), wasn't the copper but rather the tin. Tin was the resource they went farthest afield to find good quantities of - The British Isles and Afghanistan for example. I mean if people just told the REAL stories of history those are fascinating enough to fill hundreds of TV series without resorting to bullshit.
And BRITISH tin was really available 5,000 years ago; it came from Iran and the eastern areas via the silk road.
Agreed. There is absolutely no need to invent silly stuff. Mostly seemingly trying to deny that people with darker skin than northern europeans are somehow incapable of doing anything. Especially as in the old world it was middle eastern and north African and Asian peoples who were living in stone cities, leaders were writing to each other, trading long distances etc when pale northern europeans were still living in mud houses.
North Africans in Egypt were building the great pyramids when the North western Europeans were buiding dolmens and Stonehenge which, while amazing, were not as sophisticated as what was happening in Africa and Asia.
@@HeronPoint2021I have read that the tin in Cornwall was the reason the Romans invaded.
I am so glad you brought up isotopic analysis! I have spent my entire career as a scientific glassblower, the bulk of that time making glass consumables for the ICP (inductively coupled plasma, not those clown guys) spectroscopy industry. I've made thousands of plasma torches, spray chambers, and nebulizers. I am mostly retired now, but still make a fair number of nebulizers used for sample introduction. Plasma spectroscopy, both mass spec and optical emission spec, is just one of many means of elemental testing from which databases can be constructed to compare future sample against to localize their origins. For instance, when Florida says a specific orange juice is 100% Florida orange juice, ICP testing can help prove that, and in the past my plasma torches were used for that. Also, there are databases of flint sources in Europe and UK where many times, tools and debitage from archaeological sites can be compared to those mine location and determine where the flint (as a general term) came from. Likely trade routes and interactions among prehistoric peoples can be inferred from those matches. Also, I believe there is a database here in the west (I'm in Colorado) for known obsidian sources.
So why didn't this TV show attempt to compare source data and isotopic signatures to prove or disprove their hypothesis? Purity has nothing to do with shared sources. The need to fill a forty-five minute episode and the money that generates is the likely motivation.
I got my degree in Anthropology with an archaeology focus and creative writing late in life only for my own edification. I want to volunteer for excavation work, but just haven't set aside enough time. I took that photo of myself near Laetoli in Tanzania where I was part of a field school excavating for more evidence of an australopithicine found previously.
These endeavors should always be evidence driven. And science forces the participants to accept the science even when one's own hypothesis is disproven. I know; I've been proven wrong once before. Hahaha!!
We have a North American Cover-up going on here ! Me Evidence driven ! Only problem having Glass , Ceramics , Concrete & Stone analysis done - cost a fortune to us average folks ! So If the Government , Academia, & Archaeologists want to cover something up its a piece of cake ! Case in point. We in Northeastern Ohio have the actual Largest Oldest Human made Earthen Mound in the World ! The Twice documented Mound is twice the size of Monks Mound Cahokia ! The Government refuses to admit to, even though documented as Hopewell in 1800's and then documented in the Archeological Atlas of Ohio 1914 as Adena - Both wrong . When discovered as an advanced culture - It has been a 100+ yr. old cover-up that continues to this day Permitting the Last of the great Ancient Advanced City's that have not already been built over DESTROYED ! Permitting the Sandstone slab City destroyed to permit a Dump & Permitting the twice documented Mound Plaza destroyed for Gravel and a pit ! And I own a true valley of the dead - intentionally destroyed and covered over to hide the Ancient City FACT ! Some one is going to say well just contact this group or that LOL LOL LOL ! It appears NO ONE wants the TRUTH they are all to invested in the LIE !
You talk to much 😂😂
So far I am 10min and 23 sec into this video and I can say this.
Forensic geologists is a term that does exist. It was not invented or started by Scott Wolter, and I quote "The application of geology to forensic investigations has a long history, but the formal recognition of forensic geology as a distinct discipline gained prominence in the mid-20th century. " and this........"One of the pioneering figures in forensic geology was Dr. Edward J. C. Petts, a British geologist who contributed significantly to the field during the 1970s and 1980s."
Now did Scott Wolter self proclaim to be one or was trained as one that I have to research more. But I can tell you he is not the first one to use the title and did not create it. I would also say that considering he has a Master of Science degree in Geology, which with the combination in field work and studies led to his career into forensic geologist. I would have to take that forensic geologist was already present otherwise all that would have led him to invent the term or title of this, instead of just leading him into it.
Now from what little research I did about arsenic bronze was it was used between 5500 to 4000 years ago in about 3500 bc.. Where Bronze with tin was used around 5500 years ago around 3500 bc. So it was pretty close. We should also take into account that we are talking about the widespread use. It could have been very likely that before trade was set up and tin was introduced to these regions that used arsenic doesn't mean arsenic came first. In the areas where tin was available tin could have been used around the same time frame its just that arsenic was more available then tin in most areas. For what research I did there is no direct evidence that points to one being used before the other. But there is evidence that states that certain regions had access to arsenic and not tin while other regions had better access to tin and not arsenic. considering science is not always a proven fact and science changes all the time when new ideas, or technology is invented, along with new discovers its hard to say with 100 percent fact that what is true now will be true tomorrow.
Now does that mean Scott is a fake or not? I have no clue. All Im saying is I don't know the dude. He could be, or he could not be. But what I do know is only 10 min in I can tell you I have found this much to question already. Now Im not saying he is wrong, or right either. Im just saying for the little that I do know this is what I found. I will probably watch the rest of this later because I am interested int knowing facts and truth. I do want to hear his prospective.
And yes I could be wrong. Im only going on the info that I come across online. We all know how that goes. So if I am wrong then so be it. Wouldn't be the first time. Im not the sharpest crayon in the glove box. Just sayin.
fun fact there is such a thing as a forensic geologist the field was pioneered in 1973 by geologist Ray Murray
Good thing you didn't take a drink for every "fact" you debunked or you would have been hammered at the 15 minute mark! I also loved your academic use of profanity, you must have an advanced degree in 'telling it like it is'!
Keeper coming
You'd think, but dirt archaeologists are uh... really good at drinking.
Haven't seen this dude (don't have cable). Thank you for calling out BS where appropriate. I don't like morons using phony archaeology to advance themselves either.
C'mon, we all *know* it was aliens who needed the copper for ethernet cables at their spaceport in the Nazca Desert.
I can’t tell if you’re joking or serious, but the third missing Andrews tablet (there were three, not one as stated in the video) mentions the animal figures on the Nazca plains. Although all the tablets have been lost, they were holographically encoded in the U.S. Constitution by the Yeti doppelgänger of George Washington.
That sinks scott w
Finally a voice of reason! Lol
I love the manipulativeness of Wolter showing a map of copper sources for Europe and excluding the most important 2nd millennium BCE sources for copper in the Mediterranean: Cyprus and Sardinia...... Excellent work Nathanael, was glad to hear you jump on the arsenical versus tin bronze issue, saves me yelling at the screen as much, keep up the good work.
Scott is reading out of date Aegean arch. lit., the Minoan thalassocracy (sea empire) myth originated with Thucydides, was perpetuated by Victorian classicists, and put to bed in 1992 by Professor Bernard Knapp in 'Bronze Age Mediterranean Island Cultures and the Ancient Near East'.
Isn’t the name of the element based on the ancient name of Cyprus?
There's pretty much no ancient mine pits left in Michigan to inspect anyway because pretty much all of them became industrial mining sites once they were discovered.
Thanks for helping to stop the assault against science.
Disregarding another's theory..WITHOUT any supporting evidence...is NOT science.
Any claim made without evidence may be disregarded without evidence. Critical thinking 101.
@@NathanaelFosaaen NO! NO claim without evidence can be disregarded without evidence. Critical thinking 102.
@@badguy5554The toothfairy fingered your mom. Go ahead, provide evidence she didn't.
Why do their theories always just boil down to, everything successful in history is linked to Europe? I mean I know why but it’s boring after awhile. Can’t there be at least be some real new conspiracies if we have to deal with this stuff?
It's slightly laundered white supremacy. That's what it always, always comes back to. If some sort of significant engineering feat was accomplished in the past, it had to have been white people, right? If not, it must have been aliens. That's pretty much the "thought" process.
I think it’s based on urban legends they heard as kids and as they get older they think about how they can capitalize on that. American media culture isn’t pro-intellectualism or honest discovery, it’s pro-attention reception. Saying Europeans were sailing to the US 5,000+ years ago gets them maximum attention and then clicks and views and money and fame.
You have to understand conspiracy theorists are in it for the ego-stroking and personal gain. It’s what some people use to supplement or replace religion, it’s self-serving and wholly emotions-based, relying on sneaky deception to invoke emotions within others. It’s about being that “special person in-the-know”, which is just another attention-seeking behavior. They want attention for their beliefs, they know a lot of other Americans do too, because we’re raised in a culture that rewards such behavior, so they offer us that attention while receiving it themselves. Everyone wins!
Considering that the east asian peoples were doing crazy stuff with metallurgy long before us « fair skinned » folk !
I was about to point out they were way ahead in China. 😉😄
Simple. Big white man complex. Its a throwback to a 19th mindset.
It seems that youtube creators get pressured pretty heavily to treat nonsense theories floating out there as if they were plausible, and to "take them seriously." I'm sure there are tons of disciplinary aspects to this, such as the dynamics of youtube engagement and funding. All terrible. I'm really grateful whenever a channel like yours, which argues for perspectives and analyses based in the state of the arts of the relevant discipline of archaeology, refuse to play that game. So thank you for calling this nonsense out. Please consider doing so more frequently (not necessarily with whole videos devoted to the dispelling, but maybe just in the regular flow of your presentations)! Cheers
Thank you so much for doing this! It's incredible how much of this bad information is so popular out there.
Thats what the lizard spacegods want you to think,lol
@Badguy how do you get copper into ingots without refining it?
The history of the Great Lakes copper is intriguing. It is super annoying to hear the clowns yapping about fictional oceanic trade.
It fascinates me how in some parts of the americas, there were neolithic citystates with some metals, then they went back to hunter/gatherer and/or followed game around. People have crazy theories about how and why because of blatant racism, and also because the epistemology was developed by europeans who assumed cultural and tech development would happen in a specificly european linear way regardless of resources or environment. This leads to some calling other peoples less developed or even genetically inferior,especially people without cows,wheeled carts,tin deposits, or smarmy victorian jackets. Its BS
Avarice has little interest in the constraints of reality.
.So PLEASE tell us the "evidence" YOU and this guy have that that oceanic trade was "fictional"?
@@badguy5554 I would be glad to share any evidence that it happened but there does not seem to be any. Nor is there any reason to suspect it. But everyone would be happy to research any evidence that pops up in the future.
@@badguy5554 Simple, there's no credible evidence that it happened.
Dude, this video was so fucking good. Thank you. I love your channel!!! My favorite quote? "And those people are idiots."
Enjoyed this excellent scientific and professional archeological debunking of this program. Thanks! I watched an episode from this series a couple of years ago when this same host was claiming that the Phoenicians made it all the way to Chicago. 🙄
😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣 If the Phoenicians sailed the Great Lakes and left any evidence, the real archeologists would be publishing articles scrutinizing the evidence and searching for possible alternative explanations of each other's conclusions in order to arrive at the best understanding of the data given our present level of knowledge. That is science.
This reminds me of Erich Von Daniken and his baloney books like Chariots of the Gods. I was an undergrad when Chariots came out. I remember my archeology profs having fits over all of his bs because laypeople didn't know how to see through the pseudoscientific nonsense he published.
And what's YOUR "theory" to explain the Waubansee stone? YOU and this "scientist" have absolutely no way of telling whether that stone was used by the phoenicians or not. lol!
@@badguy5554 Lol you don't either. You misspelled Waubaunsee which is a Potawatomi word. They're the ones who lived in that area prior to colonization. You didn't even spell it correctly. Keep drinking the Kool-aid.
@@gnostic268 Hey...Native American words are spelled a number of ways. YOUR spelling is just one of many. And YOU should take YOUR cool aid without Whiskey...next time! And HOW does the spelling of Waubansee have ANYTHING to do with the discussion we're having? Attempting to discredit a comment based on the spelling of a word is an act of desperation when you can't think of anything intelligent to add. As the 3 stooges used to say: "Wake up and go to sleep!"
@@badguy5554 The early history of the Waubansee Stone is based on hearsay. I think that even Wolter acknowledged the possibility that it was made by someone stationed at Fort Dearborn. It is worth noting that the first specific dated mention of the stone is supposed to come from 1837 when Daniel Webster allegedly stood on it to give a speech. Actual evidence of its existence in terms of official records and photographs (obviously) is much later in the 19th century. So I'm not even sure if the Daniel Webster story is true. However, a stone ammunition magazine had been built in the fort around 1816. In 1831 a stone lighthouse was built in the area. So Americans capable of doing stonework were in the area well prior to the time it can be dated with any degree of certainty.
It is worth noting that early speculation about the stone attributed it to Aztecs or Vikings, when not attributing it to people at Fort Dearborn. The link to Phoenicians came much later in the 1990s and is attributed to Frank Joseph a Neo-Nazi and convicted pedophile turned pseudoarchaeologist. But even he acknowledged at one point that it was speculation.
By this guy’s logic it’s equally possible that Indigenous traders mined the copper, sailed across the Atlantic, and gave Europeans the Bronze Age. But of course that’s not going to be the theory.
Scott is a chode.
My understanding of thbings is that the main way of dating anything does come from "decay", as in radiocarbon, and, as you say, isotopic change. Things have changed greatly since I studied under GF Carter at Hopkins, and more elemental decay signatures are now possible, but the principle is the same, as borne out by basic chemistry. Never can an element analysis by itself can be used to date an ore that I know of.
The first part of your presentation was cut off at my end, but I suspect that the backgrounds ofn these individuals in the video, especially the host, did not include the essential archaeological (and peer-revciewed) background.
When a program is being nakedly disingenuous and isn't trying to do anything like pretending it's science, you don't need to jargon up your analysis to call it bullshit. I suppose I'll invoke a variant of Hitchen's razor; that which is asserted without academic merit can be dismissed by academics without the lexicon, regalia or other paraphernalia of academia. A mathematician doesn't need to dig deep in responding to someone's claim that triangles have four sides, or that the sum of the interior angles in a triangle in the plane is 186.33º (repeating of course). If you're familiar Otis Eugene Ray's "Timecube", you'll understand why it is that I didn't feel obligated to do more than laugh and declare it retarded when someone presented it to me.
I think a certain minimal degree of intellectual work and academic integrity is required to be on display before a wrong (albeit thoughtful and honest) attempt at modeling the world can rightly be said to be entitled to demand something more than derision. Lowbrow arguments by disingenuous charlatans or dilettantes sort of set their own measure for what qualifies as an appropriate tone by any who choose to waste the time addressing their tomfoolery in the first place.
_"that which is asserted without academic merit can be dismissed by academics without the lexicon, regalia or other paraphernalia of academia"_
I like it. Although it doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.
I've always cast a gimlet eye on that show. Happy to hear some well reasoned criticism of it.
BTW, I'm stealing your thoughts on keeping an open mind. Wonderful quote.
At the time, I found the show entertaining but not at all plausible. Then I joined Twitter and realized that people actually believed Wolter.
Thanks for doing this, it’s indispensable! I’m a history and govt teacher and I feel like the last 4/5 yrs I’ve been playing whack-a-mole with all the “alternative facts” circulating.
I am with you, all the way. I am an academic by profession (two Master's and a PhD) and, man o man, I break into hives when I run into manifestations of total moronic idiocy like the stuff you are showing here. BTW, good idea to have a sip of whiskey to keep your blood pressure lower (I prefer burbon).
I have no training, not a hobbyist or a history buff don't even own a metal detector. That guy drives me crazy with his need to find that little left hook on any cross in some "ancient text", or paintings where people have their hand in the position he claims is a nod to being Knights Templar. I let it get to me, I really did. It never fails someone in my life will want me to watch him too. I drink rum instead of whiskey.
PS Thank you for the review/reaction
I'm not an archaeologist or academic but I've spent years making alloys in induction furnaces and there's plenty blatant bs in how metallurgy is presented in these shows. The real history is hella cool though, better than tne kook theories. Tne oldest crafted copper we've found was in Iraq (fertile crecent) and it wasnt smelted from malachite,it was literally chipped out of a meteor! I wonder if they saw it fall and went to find it.
@@drphosferrous I recently acquired a piece of art from the middleast. I only bought it to be nice to someone. I got it home and the huge sheet of copper it was on had some really unusual mystery. Its like it was used as a printing press and then this kind of ancient process was done to the front. The chinese and french would call the front cloisenne they melt glass and enamel to the copper. Do you know if copper reacts to photo chemicals. the back of it is either newspring or the transfer of some kind of photo process to the copper.
@@littlezentz it oxidizes easily and turns shades of green. If it stays copper color then its coated with somethin. Acids, heat, or damn near anything can boost or inhibit the oxidation process. The printing though is something else. They used to etch metal plates for printing pictures, roller ink on on press them. Theres one or more for almost every cheaply printed pic up into modern times. It used to be super common and there are tons around.
Yeah…seemed a little like “I have a degree, listen to me”. But I found it weird that he was essentially a geologist weighing in on historical and archaeological issues . Like, sure there’s some overlap. But there’s also overlap between a Vet and a Doctor, but I wouldn’t ask my vet for medical advice.
I appreciate your passion about this. Keep calling out the charlatans!
Thank you, I will!
Strange. At 21:00 I had already came to the same conclusion about Nate.
A forensic geologist is a real thing. Forensic geology connects earth science with criminology. By analyzing soil, forensic geologists can determine where a crime happened. The field is fairly new and was pioneered by Ray Murray, PhD, a geology professor at Rutgers University, beginning in 1973. The end of the mining coincides with the African humid period. Regarding Scott Walter. To him every tablet found in the US has to do with the Knights Templar's. I have to disagree.
That would have been a real tough trip in those bronze age ships and the return trip would have been hell with all that heavy copper onboard!
Good for you, man. I'm a prof in the social sciences. I get so fucking tired of the hubris of folk who think their ability to speak means expertise....and of the those who capitalize on willful ignorance at any opportunity. Maybe there's a special circle of hell reserved for those who post and repost such shit on social media. Fed up.
But what about the ALIENS?! Wait, that's probably being focus grouped right now for ratings potential. Sigh. Loved this video, brother. And your attitude. Keep it coming!
I'll debunk this ENTIRE THEORY for anyone who doesn't understand that the "copper purity level" is a complete hoax - Think of it this way; Humans traded thousands of tons of heavy metals across an ocean (or ice bridge?) but they didn't trade seed, livestock or literally ANY other good with each other - or technology?
... and a quick side note, the montage at 27:00 is REALLY embarrassing. I'm also quite aware that there was no such ice bridge, I was being facetious.
😂 love this!!!!
I found you trying to figure out wtf they were talking about too. Thank you for being real.✌️💗
And love Jackson Crofford!
Thanks to you I have better skills to find the information. I’m grateful for that beyond measure.
My response to the “tone” issue is that it takes all kinds. Some people respond better to folks like Dr. David Miano who is very respectful and reserved in his criticisms.
And some people need to be told they are idiots because at the end of the day these “theories” (they are not true theories) are idiotic.
It takes all kinds of people to fight the willful ignorance and profiteering of these pseudo-archeologists.
I know Scott, he's a good natured likeable guy. He's just doing something he was asked to do and having a little fun with it. It's entertainment and he's hosting a scripted show. The script and his personal/professional views aren't the same thing. Forensic geologist is more descriptive of the type of work he does than an official title, but it's show biz. They didn't ask him to do the show because of his professional expertise, that's just the angle they're playing BECAUSE he's a geologist. He's there because he's a personable guy that's hard not to like. Knowing Scott I can tell you what he's not doing, and that's wasting his time ripping on good people just to get views on YT and stroke his own ego :)
Sure he might be a nice guy but if he is a geologist He knows damn well that he is doing a disservice to science and yet he is doing it anyways.
Yeah, Wolter's such a good guy spreading lies under the banner of his scientific expertise! Imagine defending the clown spreading pseudo-science for a cheque crying about the actual archeologist exposing Wolter!!
@ShamanicSavant - I strongly disagree. It is not a waste of time to point out falsehoods. I see no evidence that Nathaniel Fossem is feeding an ego trip. Most importantly, truth matters. Being likeable means nothing, as a con artist is at least as likely to be likeable as a good person. I don't know Scott Wolter. Maybe in many ways he is a good person. However, Scott is doing something quite bad. Nathaniel is doing something good by correcting Scott's errors, and doing it basically for free. If Scott does not believe what he is saying, and knows it may not be true, that just makes it worse. That means he is taking money to lie to people. The truth matters. People might respect native Americans a bit more if they realized all these cool copper trading networks they had...but no, let's throw Europeans into the mix for no reason. Also, lending credence to unsupported ideas helps foster a culture of discounting legitimate experts and the scientific community. Healthy skepticism is one thing, discounting legitimate expertise is quite another. When this gets applied to medical science and vaccines, lives are on the line...and Scott Wolter, by lying, just helps feed this corrosive BS in our culture. Since you know Scott, please tell him that people who value the truth beg him to STOP.
As it concerns native Americans in that area having an oral history of seeing tall bearded peoples in that area, we need to remember that that area is relatively compact(southshore lake Superior, to Isle Royal to northern shores of lake superior).
The people's who lived in that area,at tha time, were people of the Old Copper Culture. I do not believe there is even a tribal name for them.
They were displaced by proto-Sioux people. These people were in turn displaced 400 years ago by the Ogibway-Anishanabi.
The Anishanabi (from what I have read) where originally from east of the Great Lakes (Pennsylvania ,New York, Quebec).
If the Anishanabi had oral historical memory of tall white people it would have been from their time when they habituated the North East, not after they had migrated from the east, and populated Suprior copper country.
Just my uneducated two cents worth.....
I don't know if tall and bearded would be the best description for Minoans 3 or 4 thousand years ago. Or if having a beard would exclude someone from being Native American. Or if one changes it to tall bearded white guys why that wouldn't just reflect oral narratives of French entering the region by circa-1600. A non-historian/non-anthropologist telling another non-historian/non-anthropologist an alleged Native American story and trying to link it to events 4K years ago is just par for the course in the Wolter world.
There were never any proto-Sioux people. Sioux is one quarter of an Anishinaabe word for enemy. There is a Siouan language stock that is used by many tribes. The Oceti Sakowin people are also known as the Lakota/Dakota and Nakota people. I'm Lakota and enrolled at Standing Rock in ND. I can trace my genealogy back 10 generations and have never heard anything about tall, bearded men wandering around freely. Each tribe had territory that they defended and allies who they traded with. Lewis and Clark needed Sacajawea to help them navigate from St Louis to the West Coast in the early 1800s and translate for them because she had knowledge and language skills with several different tribes. What makes you believe that Europeans were magically able to travel all over the North American continent without any language knowledge and guides? There are no European sources or tales for this. No historical stories from several tribes for this nonsense. Cite your sources from tribal historians and peer reviewed archeological books and journals and not some whack job YT videos
Dear Rocky and Cedar, I totally agree with you! Sorry that I mislead you...😟
I was trying to show that that lady at about11:08 was off base.
@@gnostic268 preach!
First time hearing and seeing your site. I have seen many shows with Scott Wolter and thought I was honest! The last show on Unearthed was about space ship looking artifacts found in a cave in Mexico. He didn't believe they were authentic and walked out of the cave. Unearthed is a favorite show of mine. Now I feel I've been duped the whole time!
You have been duped the whole time. Admitting it is the first step
Sorry, man. Better to know, though.
I’ve never heard of this conspiracy, and I’m disappointed in myself for not being more aware.
I was oblivious myself until I did a video about the Old Copper Complex and I got a bunch of extremely misinformed commentary back.
Myself as well, I am ashamed
Whenever they have ominous "Hollywood" music that's a sign it's going to be a BS show.
Nothing wrong with a compelling score. That's shallow af.
@@NathanaelFosaaen It's not shallow at all. I think the OP has a point. "Documentaries" like this use an overly dramatic score to sensationalize their garbage content. The overblown drama of the music emphasizes the sensationalist nature of the claims. It's all part of the package. Their choice of music says "we are doing serious stuff here" when it's really just BS, as you have skillfully shown through your video.
@@redandblue323 yup. These kind of shows use alot of techniques in filmmaking to keep the audience's attention. Music, shot composition, all of that works together to try to convince the audience of something. Documentaries like this use these techniques in a dishonest way.
Oddly, I found the music score to be an instinctive alert that the information is just a show and not real science. “Real” science programs do not use music in that way, in my experience.
I found your comment about the isotopes in Michigan copper and how easy it would be to identify it in regards to Grams claims that Michigan copper was mined by Egyptians very eye opening. I get history books need to be rewritten but the last thing the future generations need are more lies based on Gram self promoting narratives for a movie. Isn't he part of that Gaia group too?
I personally love your approach....keeping it real....big ups on your channel Nate.....I've been studying pre- contact indigenous archeology for over 45 years...simply put....we are doing it better and more responsibly.. the investigation continues.
I love the particle accelerator operator telling him the amounts of all the trace elements as if Wolter is actually trying to learn anything
First of all, I love the tone. Please don't lose it. Secondly (pardon my lack of research here -> will address that out of band), I only have one question. This is not a back hand, this is honest. I feel like the iron isotope fingerprint explanation is still a bit insufficient. I don't expect a full explanation, but how can you be sure of the geographical origin by a dating metric. I understand that you can loosely tie them together given similarities in the finger print vs the suspected date of a particular mine being active, but there has to be other metrics involved. If there are, I would honestly love to know more. I will even accept a vetted link. There is so much noise on the internet, and I would much rather hear this from a trusted source. Sorry if that is a big ask, and I understand if time or necessary complexity makes it too difficult to respond. Thank you so much for this video, btw. I hate these stupid shows, too. I am pretty damn sick of cons and half-truths that pollute possible educational opportunities in most media formats.
Thanks for keeping up the fight against the bullshit representation of archaeology that is on mainstream TV. Twenty-year professional archaeologist here.
Thank you! It boggles my mind that, as an academic (psychology), it is ridiculously hard to defend evidence based science yet, people will buy into this garbage from tv (and churches) blindly. The truth is out there! It’s just not usually as fantastical as people want it to be. I am pausing the video so I can watch with my wife who is currently studying to be an archeologist 😊
Yes, the psychology must be fascinating. After all, why listen to fantasies claiming to be true when the actual truth about the world is so darn interesting.
So glad you didn't make that into a drinking game. I wouldn't have made it very far...
"Forensic Geologist" - DRINK!
I don't have a problem with your presentation style. This is the first video of yours I have watched. Having grown up in Wyoming and lived here most of my life, even academics in this neck of the woods wouldn't have a problem with your style either! I totally agree with your perspective on Wolter's "theory" regarding copper. Even my limited knowledge of geology/metallurgy, etc., could see the fallacy of his arguments. I am anxious to watch more of your videos and insights.
More of this. We need as much debunking as possible! Especially for UA-cam channels. People don't watch TV as much as UA-cam, especially the young ones.
Came for the thumbnail, stayed for the information.
Forensic geologist seems to be an actual thing.
I made a correction in the description.
Thank you for this, and early too! The tour guide was special, her side eye and pitch were very telling. Love the thumbnail, it’s provenance took a minute😹
NAAAATEE!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 this is a really great video lol thanks for being straight up. Your incredible knowledge and always attaching information to your credible sources speaks for itself. Nya: wëh
Glad you enjoyed it! What's the appropriate response to "Nya: wëh?"
“Cyprus was famous in antiquity for its copper resources. In fact the very word copper is derived from the Greek name for the island, Kupros…” (Department of Greek and Roman
Art, The Metropolitan Museum of Art). Anyone looking for copper in the Mediterranean should start there.
If I had unlimited money and time? Determine if it is possible to identify chemically the copper from the Great Lakes, from the old mines. Go thru every catalog of every copper item known within the area, and the area known to be pre colonial towns. See if any of these items match up. It would be a long and rather tedious process of locating and examining all of the cataloged and known pieces of copper in those areas.
Great stuff. Since the history channel has become what it has. B it is nice to have a source from actual expert
I just found lots of info about forensic geologists, its a thing .
His original presentation sheet mentioned matching trace elements; I also was disappointed that he appeared to express such a certainty without at least showing the audience evidence that the trace elements from the scans were ~perzactly the same too.
Thanks for setting things right. Keep doing it .Appreciate your efforts !!!
What and how we know about isotopes, their decay products and the collateral damage that decay products cause isn't a mystery but darn it is complicated. Con men use that to date their gods and we coat bullets with some of them.
Thanks for doing the video.
I fell asleep last night watching UA-cam and woke up this morning with an episode of America Unearthed playing. I’ve never heard of it before but the host was a man child. This episode was about him trying to figure out who built structures that let the equinox sun come in, blah blah blah. One property owner said that he’d allow someone onto the property to examine this little structure with natural spring water, but they refused to let Scott Wolter onto the property.
He was so butt hurt about it he spent the rest of the episode whining to anyone he came across how unfair it was he wasn’t permitted onto their property. From here in the US, all the way to Ireland.
I needed to know WHY the owner refused him access so I googled Scott. 😬
Anyone who lies about their credentials has lost all respect.
Then I found your video. It really shed some light onto his bullshittery.
I’m also passionate about my industry and not allowing snake oil salesmen to taint the well. The biggest compliment I ever received, which I now pass onto you, is that I’m respected for not mincing words and telling like it is. I’m unapologetically direct. I feel zero need to sugarcoat anything when it’s the irrefutable truth.
Your passion behind your words proves how irritated you are with con artists scamming the public for their own financial gain.
You keep on keeping on! The world needs more experts speaking out and not cowering because they are scared of their own shadows.
Hey man I get your skepticism in principle but here are a few things to consider. In the interest of disclosure I like Wolter's work and him as a person even if I dont buy what he is selling 100%. That said the use of informed speculation in archaeology has its place. Does Scott base some things on assumptions that might prove faulty- probably and I think he readily admits same; but he also is piecing together what is clearly a wild and completely propagandized past re: our human origins. That isnt a conspiracy. That we've all been sold a bunch of BS "archaelogy/history" because it fit a narrative by the "powers that be (read victors) is true- yes indeedy. There are dozens of timelines that are getting overturned and pushed back mightily- the beginnings of mankind in the Americas is certainly case in point- and yeah the Phoenecians, Norse and likely Egyptians were seafaring way before we are told. Any way, you are mischaracterizing what i believe is Scott's assertions regarding the provenance and connection of European copper in bronze or other alloys. What I think he has said was there are isotopic trace markers which can tie a particular copper strain to a particular region if you know the right spectrometry/gas tests to employ. One last item, the amount of opprobrium throw at so many legit researchers/professionals (and I do think Scott is this, as is Graham Hancock), because they dare to piece together fragmented info to try and tell a larger narrative (one corrected/correct partial based on inductive reasoning), definitely has its place- even if they can be wrong. Scott is clear to say much of what he proffers is specualtive, and that does present a challenge to know when and when not. But really, no one has a lock on what the real history is, and frankly the entire panoply of white shoe elite academia has many things to answer for. People are so afraid of their precious established narratives getting overturned. Give me a break- and saying such isnt rejecting the scientific method or even established facts/tradition, but encouraging same- in the broadest sense. If stuff gets disproven- fine: that's how it all works. Its kinda comical how unprofessional higher ed is about such matters frankly, and it doesnt have to do with just archaeology and related fields. Keep looking for the truth where ever it lies and try to see the forest for the trees sometimes- even if you gotta find the roots we can agree. This is a time of legit change and much of the old needs tossing out to move ahead. There were Europeans in the Americas well before the dawn of the common era. If you cant admit that well that's on you. Cheers
That's a lot of words just to admit that you're another rube who has bought into the conspiracy nonsense.
That was a long winded bunch of horseshit. You’ve unfortunately turned off your brain and gullibly swallowed the pseudo science line. The problem with Wolters isn’t that he questions interpretations. It’s that he’s deliberately lying to you. He’s not a scholar in search of truth, he’s a conman.
As a native Minnesotan of Scandanavian descent, I'm sad to hear the Kensington runestone is not authentic ... but thank you for telling me anyway. I'd rather know the truth (sniffle, sniffle) ...
The really sad thing is that I suspect Scott knows he is perpetuating myths. The "truth", as best we have it, is more than interesting enough, in my humble opinion. Please keep shining a light on the bullsh*t Nath.
I really hope you saw (or maybe suffered through is a better term) Wolter and America Unearthed about Captain Kidd. Its literally the most grotesque nonsense i've ever watched. 2/3 of the episode is chasing a supposed number Kidd handed to his wife before he was hung a Tyburn, England. 1st off Kidd got himself so drunk he probably didn't even recognize or care his wife was there (btw no mention of her in contemporary accounts). Second Wolter interprets the #'s as coordinates where his treasure is supposedly hidden. I'm not joking. Coordinates at a time when longitude precision was still 65+ years away without clocks onboard ships. And nobody used coordinates without longitude. Makes little sense. And of course we know exactly what happened to Kidd's treasure. I could go on and on about this but the deliberate perversion of history to suit his cheap tawdry narrative is very worrying for the younger viewers.
I tried watching Scott’s junk series. The dramatic music and CSI graphics make it unwatchable. Archeology programs should be slow and simple with lots of hairy people with trowels in trenches. Nathanael, what is your opinion on Time Team?
Bs has always been around and always has, some people like it. It bugs me that the algorythm gives me bs when i search "archaeology" or "neolithic" or "copper age". I always get flashy funded bs when what i really need is fosaaen talks about actual archaeology.
I also have differences of opinions with Scottie. Notably with S1E8 Chamber Hunting, when he tried to convince the uninformed that it was built by Irish monks or Freemasons. In a video on my UA-cam channel I concluded that it was a springhouse. In a act of shameless self promotion I will tell you the video is on Forest County Outback episode #28, the Underground Chamber. Not being a forensic geologist but a retired heavy equipment operator I feel I am more qualified to speak on the subject. Having spent 45 minutes of my life I can never get back watching Scotties version of the "facts" I also concluded this. He really likes repeating the phrase "there are 800 mysterious underground stone chambers in North America." Also I must say, Nathanael, i admire your restraint in limiting your alcohol intake. While I did not drink while watching Scotties show i was certainly questioning my 35 years of sobriety. Have a great 800 mysterious underground stone chambers day.
You should do a reaction piece for every episode.
There is not enough whiskey for that. 😆
Hello. great video once again. I am a super newbie to this stuff but I love it I do have a question about amateur archaeologists' though.
I have access to private land on a bluff that sits over a river in south east Illinois where I have found literally thousands of worked stones in the river itself and a creek that runs into the the river. Most of the items I have collected were found during the drought last year when the river was very low.
I thought I was doing good by pulling them out of the river but is this frowned upon? I have not disturbed any of the land even though it is private land.
Are the thousands of items that I have, worthless to professionals like yourself? I have tons of stuff that I have never seen before and I thought it would be good to bring those to light but now after watching your videos, I am not sure.
Should I stop what I am doing? There are still thousands of items in the river that I could pull out if there is another drought. It almost seems as if this was where white settlers found an ancient village and then just bulldozed it right into the river. I wonder if that was common practice and how many millions of items are in our rivers all over the US.
I actually have permission to rock hunt on several private properties. It was a lot of work to get that access for some, others not so much (my in laws own one of the sites) and of course very labor intensive retrieving stones from the river then carrying them up the hill.
Is all of my effort for nothing? Should I find a new hobby?
Creek walking is in an ethical gray area. It's not actively destructive, but some native people don't really like that non-natives collect their ancestral material like trophies. There's some utility to broad-scale county-by-county analysis of what's where. I'm sure if you talked to the Ilinois archaeological society they could instruct you on how you could better document what you're finding to make it more useful.
Never allow yourself to be so open-minded that your brains fall out.
I've been wondering if anything on the History channel isn't misinformation. For that whiskey I hope you're correct sir. I would love to think Scott is one of the real ones. But somehow I feel lied to
Unfortunately the stuff that's correct is surrounded by gibberish so if you aren't already familiar with the information it's basically impossible to tell the difference.
Thx for your chanel! - Would you have some views on the Laurentian ice sheat colapse?
That's a great question. I'm so glad we live in a country where we can ask questions. Without questions all we'd have is answers, and an answer without a question is a statement.
Bronze has always been made out of Copper (Cu) and Tin (Sn). Arsenic (As) shows up only copper that contain As. The Neolithic mummy from the Alps (Otzi) has As in his skin and clothes showing where the Cu ore he was using came from. Europe has Arsenical-Cu ores. The Bronze Age in the Aegean are was from 3200 - 1200 BCE. It didn't start in the rest of Europe till around 2500 BCE.
P.S.- Scott was referred to as a "Forensic Geologist" on the documentary 1362- The Kensington Enigma that showed the Kensington Rune Stone is real and not a hoax.
Absolutely not. The Kensington Runesgone is written in 19th century Swedish, not Old Norse. It's an obvious fabrication.
I appreciate you undercutting the stereotypes of European knowledge/society being “more advanced,” and calling out people for falling into them/ having limiting beliefs about Indigenous Peoples of the Americas. Niá:wen.
🤣 I really enjoy you videos and find them very educational and informative. Seeing you fired up made this one entertaining too! Keep up the great work!
It is ridiculous to suggest there was a trans Atlantic trade in antiquity involving Great Lakes copper to the Mediterranean. The tiny Icelandic Norse settlements in Labrador do not support the presence of Europeans in such a way as to allow for this operation. The number of people involved in mining, transporting and lading the goods would mean a large settlement would have had to be created which leaves evidence and would take years. And we are to believe this major inter continental metallurgical endeavor happened and was lost to accepted academic coverage of the history of civilization. Oh really?. .
Just saw “Forensic Geologist” for the first time. My son and I were hysterical and spent some real quality time laughing at this show. Have we really gotten to the point where someone can point to a hole in the ground and compare it to Stonehenge? I’ve studied geology and never heard of forensic geology except when my drunk neighbor hit his wife with a rock and the cops asked us “Which rock was it?”
i was 1st ask to go do this America Unearth, day before I was supposed to meet the boat at Copper Harbor the producer in New York called me in N Minnesota & queried me as to what I was going to say,,, I told him the facts & that ended the conversation, next day leaving earl for 4 1/2 hour drive to the UP instead of the short drive to Grand Portage, I received a call from the producer,,,I was out...'because' that's not what they wanted for their ''unearthing''. later I found out it was Wolter who would speak to the audience of 'unearthed'....a show driven like Fox News....later a friend msg me that had been to Isle Royale & had witnessed the filming,,,he sent me a photo of a Hooked X scratched over a adit where he said Wolter was spreading hi foolishness & claiming that adit which was modern by the rangers sign was modern,,, see how it goes with agenda bred people as opposed to the wonderful history of the Indigenous folks of N America.. smh ^
Come on, Nathanael, don't hold back. Tell us what you really think. :)
Well done brother. That was a proper dissection 👍🇺🇸
In a way it’s kinda sad. It’s a neat story. I’m totally untrained in archeology, so when I originally saw the show, I didn’t know what to make of it. But my scientific training was making the hair on my back stand up. Lots of unsupported facts being thrown around. To many facts by association only. I told myself then that I needed to check it out someday, but never got around to it. Thanks for doing the work for me. Guess it’s like every other show on History channel- for entertaining story telling only.
Not a single "allegedly" in the rebuttal. I love it. This Stewart, I don't care how he spells it, reminds me of a notorious used car salesman in the town where I grew up. Can you say, "Con man? Sure you can!"
Thank you for not playing the game. Discovery and other "learning channels" post 00s really did a number in the average persons reasoning and deduction skills. Put someone on screen that sounds convincing, give them a made-up title, add some good production value and someone with very little background in the subject matter at hand will usually eat it up.
It's sad the things a media company, that is supposed to presenting education content, will put out there for views.
Edit - I made this comment before watching most of the video and I basically commented the same things you did in the video. I need to break my habit of commenting before I finish watching videos as I am not adding anything new to the conversation.
Thank you for doing this! Tired of seeing pretend history and fairytales made to sound like reality.
Manuscript for inclusion in the Encyclopedia of Geology, Edited by R.C. Selley,
L.R.M Cocks and I.R Plimer, Elsevier, Amsterdam (2004)
FORENSIC GEOLOGY
K. Pye. Department of Geology, Royal Holloway University of London, Egham, Surrey
TW20 0EW, UK
Introduction
Forensic geology is concerned with the application of geological data and techniques in
relation to issues which may come before a court of law. It is closely related to
environmental forensics, forensic engineering and forensic archaeology. Environmental
forensics is somewhat broader in scope than forensic geology and involves a wider range
of environmental data, knowledge and expertise.
Thanks for pointing out actual facts! Sadly, I had believed Scott Wolter for a good number of years. Thanks to you, not anymore!
Great presentation. Thanks for clearing this up. I confess that I was fooled. I love the fact that after asking where did they get bronze age copper from, they conveniently ignor the fact that "copper" is named after the Mediterranean island Cyprus. It literally means "the metal from Cyprus". LOL
I remember starting to watch this program "Unearthing America" a couple of years ago but stopped when I realized just how dumb it was. First of all, Tin and Copper are found in several places in Turkey as well as Egypt, Macedonia and Iran. Why would these people travel thousands of miles for an ore that was in their backyard? Watching TV shows like this drives me crazy! Scott Wolter has a theory and is now trying to squeeze the evidence to prove it while ignoring the evidence that opposes it. He is as bad as the jerks looking for treasure on Oak Island, or the Ark in Turkey. But the producers don't care, like Wolter, they can make money selling this show and that is all they want to do.
Then explain, where did the copper go? Clearly it was mined and it is not amongst the indigenous people.
Except it IS amongst the indigenous people. The old copper complex lasted for 5000 years in and around the great lakes, and even after that complex ended, indigenous people in the area continued to use copper all the way up to the modern day. The French documented copper use up there as soon as they got there.
@@NathanaelFosaaen you didn’t answer my question. Millions of pounds of copper were extracted. Only a miniscule fraction of this copper can be accounted for among the artifacts of Native Americans. So where did all of this copper go?
@luvsfleurdelis 1. how do you know millions of pounds of copper were extracted? 2. Copper artifacts are dug up by metal detectorists every weekend around Lake Superior, and unlike archaeologists, they aren't keeping inventories. It's in the ground.
Get you pissed off and a couple of shots of scotch and you have no trouble with eye contact….. interesting
Wait until there is a full moon to air it and you will get twice the comments from people criticizing the video without watching it.
I'm chomping at the bit to drop this thing. Might reschedule it for tonight.
@@NathanaelFosaaen Well, the sooner it drops the sooner you can start responding to the criticisms from those who didn't watch it and who try to defend Wolter without having much of any background knowledge of him.
On an unrelated note, is there anything new going on with the LSU mounds thing? I did my M.A. there and know or worked with a number of the people involved both directly and indirectly. But haven't been around there in years or had any communication with them. I saw the SAA newsletter piece, but that's about all I know at this point. Hope to get a Budweiser de-briefing on the behind the scenes stuff at some point, though.
@Rocky Sexton I haven't heard anything beyond what's in the SAA newsletter. Thanks for reminding me I should probably pick through that and record an update.
@@NathanaelFosaaen Look forward to it. Not looking forward to the people who will soon show up here wanting to endlessly rehash the Uluburun shipwreck copper or trot out some old picture of what looks to be an unprovenienced chunk of cold hammered copper from the Great Lakes that is squarish and kinda looks like an oxhide ingot. Maybe you could make an intro where you play the song Woolly Bully and substitute "Uluburun" for "Woolly Bully." Just to set the tone. Have fun.
@@NathanaelFosaaen My biggest thing on America on earth was 95% of everything. He tried to prove his right was wrong and 5% well that’s just a novelty of him being wrong.
I loved the look at the end when dipshit was saying it was all gone.
Good on you Bro for sticking up for truth and against rubbish.
Love what you do but I still feel Hancock is even more dangerous than this charlatan keep doing more videos man you are so needed in this space!👍🏼🧠💡
I couldn't help but chuckle when watching this episode. Nicely done. Historical sensationalism might earn a lot of advertising bucks and convince the uninformed but that's all it is; sensationalism.
By the way, your "tone" is justified and thoroughly appropriate.
I'd like to know your thoughts on a purportedly natural rock wall in Rockwall, Texas. What, with its symmetrical angle and contrived placement of rock. It looks man made to me. Thanks.
What is your take on Archaeologist's and Collector's working together?
There have been some positive results from it. Randy Daniel has been able to do some useful analysis by working with collectors on a broad regional scale. On a personal level I have mixed feelings. The sites I work with, (especially the rock shelters) have been so thoroughly destroyed by collectors that we're starting to cover them in concrete to protect the burials. The site I did my graduate work on never had a full-scale professional excavation done and now it's too late. the storage pits and hearths and geologic integrity are disturbed beyond salvaging. The tragedy is that we never got to do flotation on the site. It contained soils that are the same age as the onset of agriculture, but it was excavated too early to do flotation for plant remains, so we can't see how plant domestication played out in the southern Ozarks. Too late now.
@@NathanaelFosaaen I know looting is a major problem as far a proper professional excavation is concerned but have also seen firsthand that collectors can contribute. There is a site in Colorado that has been professionally excavated in the 1950's that is well know that I found a bone point at that one of the Staff Archaeologist's at the Denver Natural History Museum found very interesting and asked to take a sample off of it for carbon dating. I was reluctant because of the amount of material needed for such dating but I really wanted to know what it's story was. And I was told it came back to the same time frame as the excavations. He also told me NO other bone points were ever found there. I am proud to have donated it to their studies. I left out the site name and the Dr.s name on purpose to protect the land owners. Just thought I would tell you about it.
Please, please leave it to the professionals!
Nevermind the absurd lack of legal protection in America for archaeological sites, digging Native American stuff up to collect or to sell is wrong! It's theft. Doesn't matter to the Native Americans if you steal their ancestor's belongings from private land or public land. It's easy to understand why. Just imagine a crew of, say, Chinese archaeologists digging up your grandfather's grave or your great-grandmother's final resting place, and then taking all of the things they find there, and putting the bones on display somewhere in a Chinese shopping mall to increase foot traffic. No white people would stand for it. If you want to dig up old artifacts start with your own relatives, and see how that goes.
You're so mad at the pseudoscience nonsense and I love it! The visible anger on your face when Wolter does his con-artist thing brings me joy.
I have a short fuse in general.
@@NathanaelFosaaen One's fuse cannot be too short when dealing with people who knowingly peddle in misinformation and pseudoscience. Also, I love hearing people outside my field spitting facts!