I recently ran across your channel, and I immediately subscribed. As someone currently situated in the Midwest, I really enjoy watching your videos and learning about the woodlands prehistory. Fascinating stuff. You do great work, keep it up!
Thank you for the great info and insight! The greater picture of paleo-American life and the various lithic technologies give a good picture over time, but I love to learn about the individual, how they lived, what made them laugh, the conversations they had with their friends, their likes and dislikes. One of my favorite finds was when some archaeologist in a flash of perception demonstrated that a debitage pattern showed how the knapper was sitting-one leg outstretched and the other bent with the ankle tucked under the outstretched leg. And from my experience as a glassblower, I imagine that he did not brush his clothing off, but rather stood and shook his clothes off. I learned from experience that you don't brush it off with your hands. It's that sort of thing that brings the lives of paleo people to life.
Great stuff , an actual archeologist that separates facts from theories , can explain the evidence so even I can understand it and hasn't even thrown in a single " Alien's done it " , as far as I know . All on a subject and time period that I find endlessly fascinating . Thanks . At some point in the future I wonder if you could talk a bit about the time line and types of pottery in the mid west and eastern parts of the country , I always think of it as coming on pretty late or maybe not as as much earlier stuff do to more nomadic lifestyle's? thanks again
It starts in the midwest later than it does in the southeast from the dates we have so far. That's not too far outside of my usual for the southeast. Ken Sassaman, who I reference a LOT, made his name on communities of practice theory in the earliest ceramic traditions of the southeast, but the Midwest would take me a good bit more digging to figure out who the main guy-dudes / lady-dudes are. Definitely something to put on the list though. Good suggestion!
While a young caver I got to know Patty Jo and Red, they were nurturing to me as they have been to so many thousands of young people. I have been in Salts (doing resurvey of Upper Salts Avenue with CRF, and later on a through-trip from Colossal with Roger Brucker) and it is a marvelous place. The cane torch fragments carpet the floors to this day. One really feels the weight of prehistory.
Hello and thanks for sharing your information. I’m just an old retired guy. Regarding the evidence of the miners having different meals, very interesting. Recently I watched something about the Yucatán area perhaps and they mentioned that the folks that built the pyramids didn’t live near the work area. They apparently lived out away from the city. It seemed the point was that the people had to disperse in order to spread out the people where they could make a living then they gathered to build. Maybe the mining had a season and the surrounding residents would gather for this purpose. Thanks again for sharing, it means a lot.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge in such a straightforward and informative way, I have learned so much about these people and it's exciting! Also thanks for not playing music, you just give us the good stuff.
I remember Patty Jo Watson's book! My mother was a librarian, she used bring home stuff that she knew I would like. Must have been about 8 or 9 when I read it. I suppose alot of it must have gone over my head! I'll have to try to find a copy and read it again.
I find it absolutely incredible how much archaeologist can deduce from the evidence on the ground. Coprolites must be everywhere in these conditions. In a cave with no outside interference..... these are two completely separate thoughts.
Keep up the great content, please! It is so much more interesting when we take these things very seriously. This work is so inspiring that we can shed light on a way of life that could easily have been forgotten. is there any books you have for a layman in archaeological terms, wanting to learn about the eastern woodlands?
The one to start with is David Anderson and Kenneth Sassaman's "Recent Developments in Southeastern Archaeology" from 2012. You can get a kindle version for like $10. It covers not only the time periods I talk about on this channel, but also the development of archaeology as a science here, which really adds an extra layer. It's a lot of information all at once if you're going in blind, but if you've watched much of my content, you should already have an idea of what's going on in general and be able to tie the new material into that framework. The language isn't too technical either. You might also check out Thomas Whyte's "Boone before Boone." That's a very local-scale look at the archaeology of the Appalachian Summit region of NW North Carolina. He wrote it with full citations like a scholarly book should be, but he stripped out as much of the technical vocabulary as he could so that the average reader could jump in blind and understand what's going on. I also always recommend "The Eastern Archaic Historicized" by Ken Sassaman. It's on the pricy end, and he's using it to introduce his "multiple ancestries" hypothesis that I talked about in the "Abandonment and Re-Settlement of the Southeast" video, so he's absolutely pushing a narrative that is compelling, but not necessarily fully hashed out yet. He acknowledges that. This book is really him telling the rest of us, "I'm seeing these patterns that point me to this conclusion. Think about this in your own work, and let's see if it holds up." For that one, focus on the data he's presenting more than the conclusions he makes about them. I personally think he's on to something, but it's not exactly "gospel" for the time being.
Yeah brother... I really enjoy your show...!! I watch it from, nearly, the Geographic Centre of British Columbia 🇨🇦 Keep the education flowing, sir...!! 🤓
Again you are Clear about your Discussions and offer many insights of yours and Other''s Work with Key Points and Analysis, very Important indeed, Appreciate you hard Work!
This crossed my mind when you speaking about why so much effort went Into the mining of the gypsum @3:18, I recall a Spanish explorer saying the Mayan cities where a shining white. If as you said a lot of this material was extracted with a lot of effort maybe it had some type of monetary value, Is it possible there was a long distance trade going on here?
Interesting back to gourds or squash species possibly, pumpkins possibly, or other gourds used for other implements. Unsure of gourds species utilized, so we keep learning.
Salts are generally very valuable to many Species where avaolable salt is hard to access. Some interesting facts, sunflowers are a major key to effective potential farmers, or at least gatherers
Effective Trading Routes and traders could then trade local crafts and goods with a type of localized security for their needs unmet. Sophistication or Improvement of techniques of gathering, hunting, collecting, and onto potential farming or gardening, stewarding of plant species became more efficient or effective, this Beta, or real knowledge provided breakthroughs that.Improved Standards of Survival. Was the Beta passed to only local bands or collectives, or Individuals, then sometimes exchanged to promote wider Guidelines to those with Access to Beta. Tribal Leaders were powerful, a division and specialization of Process then might provide the Beta for those in the Know, but as younger boys to man did involve Quests to seek Personal Visions as related through Elder's Interpretations of these Visions and initatiom Rights of Passage.
You discussed the topic cave salts. I’ve been told that a salt mine is under the entire state of Louisiana. Is there any evidence of salt mining (non cave salt extraction) in North America? Also unless I misunderstood you the eastern Native American had many uses for salts but weren’t using salt for food preservation like it traditionally was in the old world.
These salts aren't the kind of salt you eat. They're Epsom salts and similar. For edible salts I've seen reports of salt pans excavated near Nashville.
Okay but I completely understand how you feel about taking the "smaller" things seriously. My passion project is on a tiny burial mound in Portage County, Ohio called Towner's Mound. According to the things I've managed to dig up there was a whole other site that was destroyed in the making of a resevoir, and a lot of the excavated items from the mound itself are missing. But just because it's hard to find the information, doesn't make it less important. I'm in my final year of my anthropology degree at Kent State but on hold due to some mental health stuff. One day I hope to make some videos about the sites I care about so much
Awesome! Good luck wrapping it up. No shame in taking a break. Michelle Bebber is at Kent right? Me and some other folks were laughing our asses off at that shit knife paper she was part of. Such a great bit!
Perhaps miners were fed from a "buffet" and selected their own few most-favorite dishes with only a couple of their most favorite ingredients? Perhaps villages & communal meal preparation was prevalent, yet individual miners only picked & chose what they most wanted?
There's a possibility of equifinality here, but Watson's experiments found that using the cane torches, you want to have at least 3 burning at all times, so teams of 6 or more is much more likely. That discussion is in the 1969 publication.
I noticed you said the women were mainly doing the weaving as a blanket statement is there any evidence showing women were napping stone tools as well? Thanks
In modern cultures that use stone tools, everybody does it. Flake tools especially aren't difficult to produce, so the idea that women, who use cutting tools as much if not more than men would just wait around for some dude to make tools for her instead of just doing it herself is more than a little ridiculous.
Don't know if you know what your surname means but i am pretty sure it is Norwegian and it is made up of the words Foss that is waterfall and AAen that is a stream or river, so in English it is something like Fallstream.
Depends on what you're trying to cite and what format you're writing in. If you need to quote something I said directly because of phrasing you can go ahead and do that, but if you're citing the content then use the sources I used, not the video.
I don't know you mean not living in family units? Cuz even here in modern times we live in villages but we eat different types of foods even though we share foods.
@@NathanaelFosaaen haven't humans always had a social structure of some kind though. Could they be living in the cave during the yungar dryas ? Why why why I want to know everything! Lol
@@ChauncyFatsack social structures? Yes. Social hierarchies? No. Hunter-gatherer economies tend to operate around 8-14 member bands as their base social unit. Their leadership is situational and status is achieved over the course of life, rather than "ascribed" or inherited at birth. It's only in very unusual circumstances that institutional status develops, usually in cases of extreme food surplus, like the Pacific Nortgwest salmon fishing cultures or similar economies in Florida in late prehistory. We start to see achieved status on steroids in the Middle Woodland and that eventually mutates into full-blown social hierarchy around 1000 years ago. Natives managed to avoid the most garbage social systems humanity has ever developed for far longer than just about anyone else.
@@NathanaelFosaaen thanks for the knowledge. I love watching the CARTA lectures on violence in human history and their is a great lecture by KIM HILL Arizona University about hunter gatherers and how they lived in south America on some of the last remaining tribes like the Ache and I find them fascinating. I love your videos as well because I love learning about these topics.
Great video as always!
I recently ran across your channel, and I immediately subscribed. As someone currently situated in the Midwest, I really enjoy watching your videos and learning about the woodlands prehistory. Fascinating stuff. You do great work, keep it up!
I completely agree, this is great information !!!
I'm glad y'all are enjoying it! People love hearing about this stuff when it's not encrypted in technical papers and dense jargon.
"Archaeology is not about collecting shiny bullshit"
I want that on a T-shirt
Remember this one simple principle and your time on this channel will not have been ill-spent.
@@NathanaelFosaaen Print the shirt, Nathanael.
Thank you for the great info and insight! The greater picture of paleo-American life and the various lithic technologies give a good picture over time, but I love to learn about the individual, how they lived, what made them laugh, the conversations they had with their friends, their likes and dislikes. One of my favorite finds was when some archaeologist in a flash of perception demonstrated that a debitage pattern showed how the knapper was sitting-one leg outstretched and the other bent with the ankle tucked under the outstretched leg. And from my experience as a glassblower, I imagine that he did not brush his clothing off, but rather stood and shook his clothes off. I learned from experience that you don't brush it off with your hands. It's that sort of thing that brings the lives of paleo people to life.
Great stuff , an actual archeologist that separates facts from theories , can explain the evidence so even I can understand it and hasn't even thrown in a single " Alien's done it " , as far as I know . All on a subject and time period that I find endlessly fascinating . Thanks . At some point in the future I wonder if you could talk a bit about the time line and types of pottery in the mid west and eastern parts of the country , I always think of it as coming on pretty late or maybe not as as much earlier stuff do to more nomadic lifestyle's?
thanks again
It starts in the midwest later than it does in the southeast from the dates we have so far. That's not too far outside of my usual for the southeast. Ken Sassaman, who I reference a LOT, made his name on communities of practice theory in the earliest ceramic traditions of the southeast, but the Midwest would take me a good bit more digging to figure out who the main guy-dudes / lady-dudes are. Definitely something to put on the list though. Good suggestion!
While a young caver I got to know Patty Jo and Red, they were nurturing to me as they have been to so many thousands of young people. I have been in Salts (doing resurvey of Upper Salts Avenue with CRF, and later on a through-trip from Colossal with Roger Brucker) and it is a marvelous place. The cane torch fragments carpet the floors to this day. One really feels the weight of prehistory.
Hello and thanks for sharing your information.
I’m just an old retired guy.
Regarding the evidence of the miners having different meals, very interesting.
Recently I watched something about the Yucatán area perhaps and they mentioned that the folks that built the pyramids didn’t live near the work area. They apparently lived out away from the city. It seemed the point was that the people had to disperse in order to spread out the people where they could make a living then they gathered to build. Maybe the mining had a season and the surrounding residents would gather for this purpose.
Thanks again for sharing, it means a lot.
Very good stuff. I look at things differently by your teachings.
I think that's one the best videos I've ever seen, archeology isn't about shiny bullshit! Somebody finally said it! The Dalton man
Thanks for sharing your knowledge in such a straightforward and informative way, I have learned so much about these people and it's exciting! Also thanks for not playing music, you just give us the good stuff.
I remember Patty Jo Watson's book! My mother was a librarian, she used bring home stuff that she knew I would like. Must have been about 8 or 9 when I read it. I suppose alot of it must have gone over my head! I'll have to try to find a copy and read it again.
I'm surprised you could make heads or tails of it at that age! It's pretty technical.
Archeology what a fascinating subject. Thanks for all the knowledge!
Thanks so much! Interesting to hear
Thank you . Great videos and subjects.
I find it absolutely incredible how much archaeologist can deduce from the evidence on the ground. Coprolites must be everywhere in these conditions. In a cave with no outside interference..... these are two completely separate thoughts.
i subscribed to your channel. thanks so much ! keep up the good work.!
Welcome to the channel!
I appreciate that your analysis of sites & evidence never crosses the BS line
Keep up the great content, please! It is so much more interesting when we take these things very seriously. This work is so inspiring that we can shed light on a way of life that could easily have been forgotten.
is there any books you have for a layman in archaeological terms, wanting to learn about the eastern woodlands?
The one to start with is David Anderson and Kenneth Sassaman's "Recent Developments in Southeastern Archaeology" from 2012. You can get a kindle version for like $10. It covers not only the time periods I talk about on this channel, but also the development of archaeology as a science here, which really adds an extra layer. It's a lot of information all at once if you're going in blind, but if you've watched much of my content, you should already have an idea of what's going on in general and be able to tie the new material into that framework. The language isn't too technical either.
You might also check out Thomas Whyte's "Boone before Boone." That's a very local-scale look at the archaeology of the Appalachian Summit region of NW North Carolina. He wrote it with full citations like a scholarly book should be, but he stripped out as much of the technical vocabulary as he could so that the average reader could jump in blind and understand what's going on.
I also always recommend "The Eastern Archaic Historicized" by Ken Sassaman. It's on the pricy end, and he's using it to introduce his "multiple ancestries" hypothesis that I talked about in the "Abandonment and Re-Settlement of the Southeast" video, so he's absolutely pushing a narrative that is compelling, but not necessarily fully hashed out yet. He acknowledges that. This book is really him telling the rest of us, "I'm seeing these patterns that point me to this conclusion. Think about this in your own work, and let's see if it holds up." For that one, focus on the data he's presenting more than the conclusions he makes about them. I personally think he's on to something, but it's not exactly "gospel" for the time being.
I hiked it and I liked it!! Lake Wateree South Carolina was here ie Wateree and Cherokee points and many mound every where in our historic area
Yeah brother... I really enjoy your show...!!
I watch it from, nearly, the Geographic Centre of British Columbia 🇨🇦
Keep the education flowing, sir...!! 🤓
Again you are Clear about your Discussions and offer many insights of yours and Other''s Work with Key Points and Analysis, very Important indeed, Appreciate you hard Work!
What did their torches look like and why did the torches make marks like that? Great videos by the way
Just came across ur channel and content and so glad I did! Very informative. Thank you so much. I'm in KY about 2 house from Mammoth Cave.
Welcome!
Very informative. Really curious about the gypsum mining.
This crossed my mind when you speaking about why so much effort went Into the mining of the gypsum @3:18, I recall a Spanish explorer saying the Mayan cities where a shining white. If as you said a lot of this material was extracted with a lot of effort maybe it had some type of monetary value, Is it possible there was a long distance trade going on here?
wrong time period. This was going on over a thousand years before the Spanish got to mesoamerica.
Within 2min I subbed and for me just me says everything... With that being said let's roll brother 👁️💯👁️
Welcome to the channel!
Great talk.
very interesting! we are seeing through those coprolite! that's amazing!!! lol
Maybe it's not _just_ about shiny B.S. but it's more interesting to look at when it's shiny 😂 haha. Kidding, thanks for the great info and video
Interesting back to gourds or squash species possibly, pumpkins possibly, or other gourds used for other implements. Unsure of gourds species utilized, so we keep learning.
Salts are generally very valuable to many Species where avaolable salt is hard to access. Some interesting facts, sunflowers are a major key to effective potential farmers, or at least gatherers
Effective Trading Routes and traders could then trade local crafts and goods with a type of localized security for their needs unmet. Sophistication or Improvement of techniques of gathering, hunting, collecting, and onto potential farming or gardening, stewarding of plant species became more efficient or effective, this Beta, or real knowledge provided breakthroughs that.Improved Standards of Survival. Was the Beta passed to only local bands or collectives, or Individuals, then sometimes exchanged to promote wider Guidelines to those with Access to Beta. Tribal Leaders were powerful, a division and specialization of Process then might provide the Beta for those in the Know, but as younger boys to man did involve Quests to seek Personal Visions as related through Elder's Interpretations of these Visions and initatiom Rights of Passage.
Do we know what they did with the selenite crystals?
Enjoyed watching again & Looking forward to the next one!
We can't be sure, but it seems like another source of that glittery white pigment. It may also have been medicinal, but we're really not sure.
You discussed the topic cave salts. I’ve been told that a salt mine is under the entire state of Louisiana. Is there any evidence of salt mining (non cave salt extraction) in North America? Also unless I misunderstood you the eastern Native American had many uses for salts but weren’t using salt for food preservation like it traditionally was in the old world.
These salts aren't the kind of salt you eat. They're Epsom salts and similar. For edible salts I've seen reports of salt pans excavated near Nashville.
If these miners are also farmers that explains some of the Gypsum use. It'd be damn hard to prove.
They don't quite seem to be farmers yet. more like gardeners.
Okay but I completely understand how you feel about taking the "smaller" things seriously. My passion project is on a tiny burial mound in Portage County, Ohio called Towner's Mound. According to the things I've managed to dig up there was a whole other site that was destroyed in the making of a resevoir, and a lot of the excavated items from the mound itself are missing. But just because it's hard to find the information, doesn't make it less important.
I'm in my final year of my anthropology degree at Kent State but on hold due to some mental health stuff. One day I hope to make some videos about the sites I care about so much
Awesome! Good luck wrapping it up. No shame in taking a break. Michelle Bebber is at Kent right? Me and some other folks were laughing our asses off at that shit knife paper she was part of. Such a great bit!
I can imagine spelunking with a cane torch, pre flashlight people had giant balls!
Perhaps miners were fed from a "buffet" and selected their own few most-favorite dishes with only a couple of their most favorite ingredients? Perhaps villages & communal meal preparation was prevalent, yet individual miners only picked & chose what they most wanted?
White paint is needed to whiten the skin to enter the spirit world. It's used to rub into hides to whiten the skin to be painted on.
Archeology is not about collecting shiny BS.
Well said.
So interesting they were not living together in villages
Perhaps the lack of variety of food in stool sampkes represents the individuals going on vision quests rather than group mining.
There's a possibility of equifinality here, but Watson's experiments found that using the cane torches, you want to have at least 3 burning at all times, so teams of 6 or more is much more likely. That discussion is in the 1969 publication.
I noticed you said the women were mainly doing the weaving as a blanket statement is there any evidence showing women were napping stone tools as well? Thanks
In modern cultures that use stone tools, everybody does it. Flake tools especially aren't difficult to produce, so the idea that women, who use cutting tools as much if not more than men would just wait around for some dude to make tools for her instead of just doing it herself is more than a little ridiculous.
@@NathanaelFosaaen I agree. Thanks!
Don't know if you know what your surname means but i am pretty sure it is Norwegian and it is made up of the words Foss that is waterfall and AAen that is a stream or river, so in English it is something like Fallstream.
Yep! We're from a wee farm in Hjelmeland.
Makes u see the movie about the 33 miners in new light
Nick, How can I cite this in a paper?, Thanks, Don
Depends on what you're trying to cite and what format you're writing in. If you need to quote something I said directly because of phrasing you can go ahead and do that, but if you're citing the content then use the sources I used, not the video.
I don't know you mean not living in family units? Cuz even here in modern times we live in villages but we eat different types of foods even though we share foods.
I am digging your passion for this subject. (see what I did there? ha......)
OMG I love the way you put things about archaeology. LOL shiny BS!
Also, if they had, had any kind of political leadership, I think one of the first rules would have been, "No pooping in the sacred cave."
So they pooped in the cave?
Where there ever grizzly bear in the east?
My apologies, Nate
The clan of the cave bear😅
These were ancient raves.
Guys went there to trip out on drugs, dance, hallucinate, and “become men”.
Raves.
Your videos are cools but improve you microphone quality man :D my ears parkouring lef and right xd
and instead of showing yourself minimaze yourself yo a webcam and hold the images to fullscreen this will atract more people yo your channel
Not sharing maybe they were slaves or prisoners forced into the cave to work?
How are you supposed to have slaves when you don't have stratified social structure? That would be quite the trick!
@@NathanaelFosaaen your right !so many questions .keep finding answers.
@@NathanaelFosaaen haven't humans always had a social structure of some kind though. Could they be living in the cave during the yungar dryas ? Why why why I want to know everything! Lol
@@ChauncyFatsack social structures? Yes. Social hierarchies? No. Hunter-gatherer economies tend to operate around 8-14 member bands as their base social unit. Their leadership is situational and status is achieved over the course of life, rather than "ascribed" or inherited at birth. It's only in very unusual circumstances that institutional status develops, usually in cases of extreme food surplus, like the Pacific Nortgwest salmon fishing cultures or similar economies in Florida in late prehistory. We start to see achieved status on steroids in the Middle Woodland and that eventually mutates into full-blown social hierarchy around 1000 years ago. Natives managed to avoid the most garbage social systems humanity has ever developed for far longer than just about anyone else.
@@NathanaelFosaaen thanks for the knowledge. I love watching the CARTA lectures on violence in human history and their is a great lecture by KIM HILL Arizona University about hunter gatherers and how they lived in south America on some of the last remaining tribes like the Ache and I find them fascinating. I love your videos as well because I love learning about these topics.