Great analysis. I had not idea that you went THAT analytical on the problem ;-). I hope you will get her soon and that she delivers on all the assumptions.
Excellent presentation ! I am also looking at the Farr X2 as well as the newly created Class 30 OD (no real info yet on the VPLP design). Very much looking to your experience on the water... There is also the AEOLOS P30 which looks like a rocket ! Best
Mate if I was in the market for a boat like that after watching this comparison it would be a case of "take my money" I'm amazed Farr haven't reached out and offered you a job selling their boats
Yeah, that's all looking good on paper ( if data are correct)...... as we all know many if not all manufacturers try their best- to make it look better - at least on paper. In any case good looking boat ....
I sail on the Farr x2 here in New Zealand. We just had B.P. down here to join us on board for Sail Week. Great boat, has some different characteristics to many others with the hull shape. But very fast when the groove is found. We matched much longer boats and we are still learning the boat. How have you found yours since you got it? I believe we have some different cut sails to you.
Mine is coming to me this spring and I'm really looking forward to getting out on it! Email me at scott@canadaoceanracing.com and we can keep in touch and compare notes.
So you're the other mechanical engineer looking at buying an X2 in the SF Bay Area. I love the analysis. I'm curious how the X2 will perform in the 25+ we've been getting this La Niña season.
Hey Scott - I love your analysis. I'm in the same boat as you except you've already pulled the trigger and I'm in throws this month. Can I be cheeky and check out your data myself to help me to help inform my final decision?
Do you think the speed/weight ratio hold up with only two onboard? I am concerned with the lighter boat with the full sail area it will be hard to keep the X2 flat going up wind. The 2 rudders help and ability to pump ballast up onto windward.
How do you think about the L30 class? It was adopted by a few offshore events. I would like to hear your opinion on the now dead Open 30 class as well and if it is a good choice today without regards to rating.
A freind of mine included the L30 in some analysis he did for this blog www.figaro24.com/2020/05/15/why-figaro-3/. Regarding an open 30 class, I understand the Farr X2 team is talking with UNCL and RORC about detuning the X2 to fit in to a class 30 OD program they are discussing for a club based initiative. The current X2 is pretty close to open 30 as not much was done for ratings. Not sure about the potential for a pure Open 30 class with one-off custom boats all over. Would be fun to see some of them though!
@@CanadaOceanRacing The existing Open 30 is great for offshore, but need a different set of criteria for ocean I think. There is quite a few Open 30 on the market but couldn't find the niche to fit in. Anyway, I have been talking to the people at L30, so they confirm that they have a configuration for CE A keel while the standard version is CE B, your friend might update on that. Despite your friend's assessment, the M34 came out a failure because of many reasons.
From the X2 sail crossover chart, at 90 degree TWA it's a code 0 up until about 8 knots, then it's the jib. Not sure about the other boats as I all have is their polars or tables.
Nice analysis, just be carefull with VPP and ORC polars, they can be quite off (10-20%) in some designs configuration and conditions. The optimistic/pesimistic calculation is not linear, so one design can be more pesismistic than other in the VPP results. Good analysis anyway 👍.
The systems on the X2 are really well thought out so the loads will be very manageable. It has furling downwind sails, lazy jacks on the main and is really well set up for short handed sailing. Many fast cruisers are not set up for only one or two people to manage.
Why did you not compare the new Antrim 27C to the FarrX2? Basically a new faster boat, not the nice one designed in 1996? Seeing the 27C in the three bridge fiasco in 2020 - she was the fastest in her class. Second question is - with water ballast as used on the FarrX2, isnt that a rule 52 violation in non class racing? I note this as many new boats of this new generation that are being deleviered are forgoing water ballast option and skipping the complicated issue.
Hi Ted. I didn't compare the new Antrim as I'm looking for a boat I can sail double and single handed. I understand it has a higher ballast ratio than the old Antrim but it's still not set up for solo sailing. I sailed my Antrim solo a fair bit and it was always a bit of a struggle. The 27C is sure a fast boat though! With respect to the water ballast, my understanding is that it is taken in to the rating and is not a violation of the rules. I will do some digging to see if I can find this in writing.
@@CanadaOceanRacing Thank you taking the time to respond. I am trying to figure things out too. Single and double handing in different regions is real tricky with the pros and cons with each boat decision. The Farr looks to be a real fun boat and i can understand why you would want something different and fast. I am planning on getting a new race boat for long distance racing with a bucket list of events to do. I am most likely being relocated to the east coast from San Francisco and want to be prepared as the lead time to have one built takes advanced notice and commitment. I look forward to following you on your journey. Maybe some day, you invite me as crew to show how special this next boat is. Have fun!
I'll be racing on the east coast of the US this winter and beyond. Would be fun to catch up with you at some point. Feel free to email me at sailcanadascott@gmail.com once you get situation. I found this in the ORC manual and believe other ratings view it the same: 201 Ballast, Fixtures and Equipment 201.1 The second sentence of the RRS 51 does not apply for the water ballast and/or canting keel systems and it is modified by adding non-movable items recorded in the measurement inventory (IMS B4.4). Water ballast shall be moved only transversely.
Choose a one design boat with lots (100 or more) in your sailing area. There is nothing like coming over the finish line first and knowing you won. You will also know you are a good sailor. No one will really believe you are a good sailor competing in rated boat racing. The best sailors race one design, you will find the best competition there and you will learn the most there.
That’s just not even close to doable for most people who race. Fleets that large are rare, even for dinghy racing. I race on Lk Michigan, at best we’ll have 3 boats of the same design out of a fleet of ~40 boats racing. Even the Chicago to Mac and Port Huron to Mac races have few one design boat classes. Rated boat racing is what most normal folk do. Go out, have fun!
Hi Benjamin. I'm assuming you're talking about on land? If so, it will come in a 40' shipping container that I will keep and when I can't move it by water I will move it by transport.
Comparaison ridicule… comparer des bateaux course croisière habitable avec un pur course complètement épuré n’a aucun sens… et on verra son rating IRC… alors comparer des choses comparables et vous paraîtrez plus malin 🤔
Hi Alexandre. Thanks for your comment. I don't believe any of the boats in my comparison are race-cruisers. I believe they are all in the same class as the Farr X2 - double handed ocean racers. I would be interested to hear the particulars of why you may think differently. Thanks.
Awesome job on the analysis. You actually sold me the boat based on the comparison I've made
Thanks! :)
Excellent analysis. The X2 certainly seems fast all around....!
Brilliant! Looking forward to the delivery video. Well composed, thank you.
Thanks! I will post a delivery video for sure! :)
Great analysis. I had not idea that you went THAT analytical on the problem ;-). I hope you will get her soon and that she delivers on all the assumptions.
Great info - thanks for the effort and sharing all this. Looking forward to your feedback on water
I gotta get my hands on your spreadsheet. Would love to add to it because I'm too dumb to start the work.
Feel free to email me at scott@canadaoceanracing.com and I'll send it to you.
@@CanadaOceanRacing Thanks! I will.
Excellent presentation ! I am also looking at the Farr X2 as well as the newly created Class 30 OD (no real info yet on the VPLP design). Very much looking to your experience on the water... There is also the AEOLOS P30 which looks like a rocket ! Best
Yes , and tests show it is in lite winds. Boat is very light may be too lite,
Very interesting. Would you be willing to share the spreadsheet?
I’d be happy to. Please email me at scott@canadaoceanracing.com and I’ll reply with the files attached. Thanks.
Complimenti per il modello innnovativo
Mate if I was in the market for a boat like that after watching this comparison it would be a case of "take my money"
I'm amazed Farr haven't reached out and offered you a job selling their boats
If you do buy one, let me know and I’ll chase them down for a commission and split it with you! ;)
Yeah, that's all looking good on paper ( if data are correct)...... as we all know many if not all manufacturers try their best- to make it look better - at least on paper.
In any case good looking boat ....
Absolutely agree. The proof will be on the water. Hopefully!
Outstanding analysis. Are your spreadsheets available for review?
Brad Alberts
San Diego
Thanks! Please email me at scott@canadaoceanracing.com and I'll forward the spreadsheets to you.
I sail on the Farr x2 here in New Zealand. We just had B.P. down here to join us on board for Sail Week. Great boat, has some different characteristics to many others with the hull shape. But very fast when the groove is found. We matched much longer boats and we are still learning the boat.
How have you found yours since you got it?
I believe we have some different cut sails to you.
Mine is coming to me this spring and I'm really looking forward to getting out on it! Email me at scott@canadaoceanracing.com and we can keep in touch and compare notes.
So you're the other mechanical engineer looking at buying an X2 in the SF Bay Area. I love the analysis. I'm curious how the X2 will perform in the 25+ we've been getting this La Niña season.
I'm in Canada and we get some nice 25+ winds too so I'm looking forward to that as well.
From our experience here in New Zealand, it loves the 25+!
Keen to hear of any experience you have with it?
Hey Scott - I love your analysis. I'm in the same boat as you except you've already pulled the trigger and I'm in throws this month. Can I be cheeky and check out your data myself to help me to help inform my final decision?
@Sailing Offshore Virgin - For sure! If you want to email me at sailcanadascott@gmail.com I'll send you my files.
Do you think the speed/weight ratio hold up with only two onboard? I am concerned with the lighter boat with the full sail area it will be hard to keep the X2 flat going up wind. The 2 rudders help and ability to pump ballast up onto windward.
The numbers show it should. The water ballast helps a fair bit.
The water balast definitely makes a big difference. Also, lots of twist in the main. Traveller up sheet out.
How do you think about the L30 class?
It was adopted by a few offshore events.
I would like to hear your opinion on the now dead Open 30 class as well and if it is a good choice today without regards to rating.
A freind of mine included the L30 in some analysis he did for this blog www.figaro24.com/2020/05/15/why-figaro-3/. Regarding an open 30 class, I understand the Farr X2 team is talking with UNCL and RORC about detuning the X2 to fit in to a class 30 OD program they are discussing for a club based initiative. The current X2 is pretty close to open 30 as not much was done for ratings. Not sure about the potential for a pure Open 30 class with one-off custom boats all over. Would be fun to see some of them though!
@@CanadaOceanRacing The existing Open 30 is great for offshore, but need a different set of criteria for ocean I think.
There is quite a few Open 30 on the market but couldn't find the niche to fit in.
Anyway, I have been talking to the people at L30, so they confirm that they have a configuration for CE A keel while the standard version is CE B, your friend might update on that.
Despite your friend's assessment, the M34 came out a failure because of many reasons.
What kind of sail configurations are used to generate the reaching polars of these various boats?
From the X2 sail crossover chart, at 90 degree TWA it's a code 0 up until about 8 knots, then it's the jib. Not sure about the other boats as I all have is their polars or tables.
Nice analysis, just be carefull with VPP and ORC polars, they can be quite off (10-20%) in some designs configuration and conditions. The optimistic/pesimistic calculation is not linear, so one design can be more pesismistic than other in the VPP results. Good analysis anyway 👍.
Good point on the VPPs and polars. Thanks!
how do i email you another design to add to your list, the F33, Dibley / Forsyth design
Feel free to email me at skicanadascott@gmail.com.
Are you in Toronto? Great analysis
Thanks Denise. I am in Collingwood.
Ok nice ! But how physically demanding is compared to a fast cruiser?
The systems on the X2 are really well thought out so the loads will be very manageable. It has furling downwind sails, lazy jacks on the main and is really well set up for short handed sailing. Many fast cruisers are not set up for only one or two people to manage.
Why did you not compare the new Antrim 27C to the FarrX2? Basically a new faster boat, not the nice one designed in 1996? Seeing the 27C in the three bridge fiasco in 2020 - she was the fastest in her class. Second question is - with water ballast as used on the FarrX2, isnt that a rule 52 violation in non class racing? I note this as many new boats of this new generation that are being deleviered are forgoing water ballast option and skipping the complicated issue.
Hi Ted. I didn't compare the new Antrim as I'm looking for a boat I can sail double and single handed. I understand it has a higher ballast ratio than the old Antrim but it's still not set up for solo sailing. I sailed my Antrim solo a fair bit and it was always a bit of a struggle. The 27C is sure a fast boat though! With respect to the water ballast, my understanding is that it is taken in to the rating and is not a violation of the rules. I will do some digging to see if I can find this in writing.
@@CanadaOceanRacing Thank you taking the time to respond. I am trying to figure things out too. Single and double handing in different regions is real tricky with the pros and cons with each boat decision. The Farr looks to be a real fun boat and i can understand why you would want something different and fast. I am planning on getting a new race boat for long distance racing with a bucket list of events to do. I am most likely being relocated to the east coast from San Francisco and want to be prepared as the lead time to have one built takes advanced notice and commitment. I look forward to following you on your journey. Maybe some day, you invite me as crew to show how special this next boat is. Have fun!
I'll be racing on the east coast of the US this winter and beyond. Would be fun to catch up with you at some point. Feel free to email me at sailcanadascott@gmail.com once you get situation. I found this in the ORC manual and believe other ratings view it the same:
201 Ballast, Fixtures and Equipment
201.1 The second sentence of the RRS 51 does not apply for the water ballast and/or canting keel systems and it is modified by adding non-movable items recorded in the measurement inventory (IMS B4.4). Water ballast shall be moved only transversely.
Choose a one design boat with lots (100 or more) in your sailing area. There is nothing like coming over the finish line first and knowing you won. You will also know you are a good sailor. No one will really believe you are a good sailor competing in rated boat racing. The best sailors race one design, you will find the best competition there and you will learn the most there.
That’s just not even close to doable for most people who race. Fleets that large are rare, even for dinghy racing. I race on Lk Michigan, at best we’ll have 3 boats of the same design out of a fleet of ~40 boats racing. Even the Chicago to Mac and Port Huron to Mac races have few one design boat classes. Rated boat racing is what most normal folk do. Go out, have fun!
How will you move the boat around?
Hi Benjamin. I'm assuming you're talking about on land? If so, it will come in a 40' shipping container that I will keep and when I can't move it by water I will move it by transport.
Cape 31?
A quick boat for sure! That said, it takes a crew of around five or more and I was looking for a boat that can be sailed shorthanded.
So, did your Farr X2 come in?
Should be arriving early spring!
Hello - did you get your X2 ?!
Not yet. I have been focusing on my IMOCA sailing lately and let some of the earlier builds go to others. I should be getting mine this winter!
The unspoken elephant in the room is its going to be fragile and often broken
I'll guess we'll see how it goes over the next few years. Fingers crossed that the build quality is high!
Comparaison ridicule… comparer des bateaux course croisière habitable avec un pur course complètement épuré n’a aucun sens… et on verra son rating IRC… alors comparer des choses comparables et vous paraîtrez plus malin 🤔
Hi Alexandre. Thanks for your comment. I don't believe any of the boats in my comparison are race-cruisers. I believe they are all in the same class as the Farr X2 - double handed ocean racers. I would be interested to hear the particulars of why you may think differently. Thanks.
Alex, on a side note, do you have an opinion on the competitivity of the 3330 under ORC?
@@CanadaOceanRacing partez une semaine en croisière avec et vous verrez que les bateaux ne sont pas comparables…