I’m 6’5” and I find what *feels* like a full back swing causes all kind of contact and direction issues but what *feels* like a short back swing improves things greatly. When I see video of myself it’s a normal length swing but it feels, even after quite some time, like I’m cutting it off early.
Us taller guys can really smash it if everything lines up, but being so much taller really decreases our margin for error, especially the longer the swing gets. One of my main swing thoughts that really helps is to feel like I keep my hands as low as possible, and on the takeaway that I'm literally dragging the clubhead on the ground as long as possible before the wrists naturally break. Anything to help me get the right feel of being in the slot, and once that balanced feel at the "top" occurs, I can really go after the ball confidently. All the trouble starts when my hands get high, etc.
Like it Mr buzz man. I’ve been over reaching for a long time because I felt like that was how to complete a swing. Recently tried shortening the back swing for a more controlled strike and my consistency has improved massively without losing any distance. Probably because I’m finding the middle more often. Top vid, keep it up👌
I went with the Tony Finau short swing last year. Luke Donald also has a short backswing and he peaked my interest first. My feeling is that the farther back you go, the more room for error in finding the sweet spot, and as my Father used to say "clubs for sale, sweet spot never hit".
I switch to a short swing And I'm hitting more pure and farther. I notice the my core especially the rite side of my stomach is clenching as I hit the ball engaging almost as if I was about to get punched. It's also important to keep that left arm super straight on the back swing. I wish I would have discovered this in my 20s.
Great insight Steve. I understand you when you say that the impulse is the integral of force over time. This is also called change in momentum.What I'm struggling with is that the force applied to the golf ball happens over a very short time, not the total time for the downswing. So looking at your graphs, Tony's force applied is larger than the other (yours for example), since the force applied to the golf ball happens almost instantaneously (imagine a vertical line on the graph). The momentum of the ball changes since momentum ( delta p) = mass x velocity. I am a bit unsure of this, but isn't Tony's force applied in a shorter time than yours. In fact, if you could apply your swing force to the ball for a long period of time, you could equal or surpass Tony's impulse. It may be that Tony applies his force for a longer time than yours because he compresses the ball more than you do. This is an inelastic collision. This brings up a different but related issue. Momentum is mass x velocity. Longer ball flight means more optimum driver mass and speed, not just speed. The wanted result is greater ball speed. So, a fitting actually optimizes both driver mass and speed, not just driver speed by observing the result - ball speed. It is not always the case that a lighter driver will hit the ball farther. The driver speed must increase to counter the smaller mass. If the lighter mass driver speed doesn't increase enough, the momentum of the driver will actually be smaller and the ball speed will be less. Seems a more thorough understanding of the mechanics of the inelastic collision (ball compression) is necessary in order to fully understand the result. Thoughts?
Ball compression does not significantly change when club head V changes, ball contact is far more complex then we describe in a coaching setting and I’m making no attempt to explain it in this video. The graph is showing kinetics whereas clubhead V is kinematics so simple relationship not necessarily going to be found.
@@BuzzaGolf Thanks Steve. Somewhat surprised that compression is independent of club head speed. So the phrase " Use the lower compression ball. Your swing speed is too low to compress that high compression ball" is incorrect. I am still confused by the graph. Does it represent the entire downswing or just the moment of impact? Oh, I think I see. Applying a force throughout the downswing continually increases the clubhead speed (and direction) right up to the moment of impact. This is true for both graphs. Tony is applying a higher force for a shorter duration. But if the area under the curves are the same than the momentum delivered by both swings is the same. I am curious about the dynamics of the swing and the club/ball interaction. Can you provide a reference or two that might help me better understand what is happening and how is is quantified? Thanks for giving us some insight into this quite provocative subject.
Low compression ball idea is indeed incorrect and yes graph is the downswing not compression. Dr Sasho MacKenzie has done some fantastic mathematical modeling on this topic.
I like this explanation. And it’s also informative as it pertains to finding your best way to produce speed. Explains why JB Holmes said that he loses yardage when his swing gets longer than it is.
Realized this on the range one day. My full swing was going 230-250. I literally started going to 9-3 and hit the ball 250 plus. It’s straighter I think is the main thing
A little calculus from the Buzzman! Love it. Gotta love the force units of Newtons, too. I've always had a fairly long swing though I'm decently explosive and do work on stuff like that in the gym. Other than muscle fiber type and peak power production, say from legs and core, are there any additional factors at play here?
The IMPULSE is the Force ON the ball x the CONTACT TIME of the club with the ball. It's nothing the do with the time taken to swing the club. It's why footballers and rugby players kick with the side of their foot, not the toe. Kicking with the side increases the contact time, hence the impulse. Basic GCSE Physics.
Finau's height and long arms give him a longer moment arm than other players. Moreover, his release is a very pronounced old school turning it over rather than the lead wrist extension that Hackmotion has made such a noise about.
Essentially, Tony accelerates faster (applies more force over a shorter time} than most people who take longer (and thus more distance) to accelerate the club to same speed. Interesting stuff Steve..
What Steve said, is very basic in physics. In mathematically it is conservation of momentum-impuls. You transform momentum into impulse or you can transform impulse in to momentum. When I took the physics class long time ago. There was a student that understand the math, but does not really understand the physics, and the lecturer could not explain any clearer. In the next lecture, the lecturer find a way to explain. He told the student: “Imagine a carpenter hit a nail - if he need more power he will swing longer - in that longer period he can add speed/power along the way. That speed multiply by mass, what we call momentum, will transformed in to impuls.” The student immediately understand. Look at the club face: In long swing, more momentum is gathered along the swing, then converted in to impulse in impact. The more momentum gathered the more the impuls. Now look at the ball: the impact is converted back into momentum back to the ball. The more impuls in impact the faster the ball. Caveat: Just like the carpenter: if you into power e.g mail into hard wood, you take a long swing. If you into precision, e.g nailing small item, or in golf find a sweet spot, you take a shorter swing.
Longer swing- more chance to screw up on the timing, etc. Shorter back swing- easier to make contact and hit the ball straight. For the average golfer a shorter back swing will benefit them more than a long back swing. I've played with old guys who poke driver 180-200 yards but hit it right down the middle of the fairway all day long and shoot low scores. Longer drivers does you no good if your in the woods
I have a short backswing too. My bodies always ask how I crush it so far. When it looks like I’m doing a half back swing. And I never knew how to answer lol.
Great video. I fell victim to this idea. I thought if I shortened my backswing it would help with control and be easier on my body. But like you said I had to really work harder through the downswing to generate speed and ended up injuring myself.
Yes. I feel the same way. I hit the fairway consistently but not long. I see others with a huge backswing and try to lengthen it at the driving range but fail to make good contact. Like my brain doesnt trust my body to make good contact with more of a backswing. I'm thinking 1 or 2 lessons would show whether I should try and develop a more explosive swing or need to go back farther for more yardage. Anyone?
I thought he hit it so far because he is tall with long arms for his height. Why do I never hear biometric experts talk about this. Rory, Rickie Fowler and Hogan also seem to have this advantage. I wonder if they could swing it fast with almost any technique but for them it is all about getting tour level control
Ok so ...... Dumb question, it is possible in theory then to be a "sprinter" naively persisting to "run the 400m" and burn himself out before the line/ball?
I swing like Tony a half back swing really, and still hit it 300-315 yards. Is he saying if I got more flexible and had a full extension I can hit way further!?
This guy has no clue "how" Tony gets that "impulse". It's width going back, lag during downswing then left leg post up; it's what all the top PGA pros with distance do.
I’m 6’5” and I find what *feels* like a full back swing causes all kind of contact and direction issues but what *feels* like a short back swing improves things greatly. When I see video of myself it’s a normal length swing but it feels, even after quite some time, like I’m cutting it off early.
Literally the issue I'm having. 6'5, 6'6 and the ball will travel far but be too far left or too far right. Im trying to shorten my swing as well.
Us taller guys can really smash it if everything lines up, but being so much taller really decreases our margin for error, especially the longer the swing gets. One of my main swing thoughts that really helps is to feel like I keep my hands as low as possible, and on the takeaway that I'm literally dragging the clubhead on the ground as long as possible before the wrists naturally break. Anything to help me get the right feel of being in the slot, and once that balanced feel at the "top" occurs, I can really go after the ball confidently. All the trouble starts when my hands get high, etc.
Like it Mr buzz man. I’ve been over reaching for a long time because I felt like that was how to complete a swing. Recently tried shortening the back swing for a more controlled strike and my consistency has improved massively without losing any distance. Probably because I’m finding the middle more often. Top vid, keep it up👌
I went with the Tony Finau short swing last year. Luke Donald also has a short backswing and he peaked my interest first. My feeling is that the farther back you go, the more room for error in finding the sweet spot, and as my Father used to say "clubs for sale, sweet spot never hit".
This is the best explanation of golf swing acceleration I have ever heard!
I switch to a short swing And I'm hitting more pure and farther. I notice the my core especially the rite side of my stomach is clenching as I hit the ball engaging almost as if I was about to get punched. It's also important to keep that left arm super straight on the back swing. I wish I would have discovered this in my 20s.
Simple explanation... The man is a 1.93m giant.
And long levers.
You and your logic
I think is the rhythm that helps the long swinger to speed up while on-the-way down. Whereas the short swinger is about “Jump Start” explosion “bang!”
Great insight Steve. I understand you when you say that the impulse is the integral of force over time. This is also called change in momentum.What I'm struggling with is that the force applied to the golf ball happens over a very short time, not the total time for the downswing. So looking at your graphs, Tony's force applied is larger than the other (yours for example), since the force applied to the golf ball happens almost instantaneously (imagine a vertical line on the graph). The momentum of the ball changes since momentum ( delta p) = mass x velocity.
I am a bit unsure of this, but isn't Tony's force applied in a shorter time than yours. In fact, if you could apply your swing force to the ball for a long period of time, you could equal or surpass Tony's impulse. It may be that Tony applies his force for a longer time than yours because he compresses the ball more than you do. This is an inelastic collision.
This brings up a different but related issue. Momentum is mass x velocity. Longer ball flight means more optimum driver mass and speed, not just speed. The wanted result is greater ball speed. So, a fitting actually optimizes both driver mass and speed, not just driver speed by observing the result - ball speed. It is not always the case that a lighter driver will hit the ball farther. The driver speed must increase to counter the smaller mass. If the lighter mass driver speed doesn't increase enough, the momentum of the driver will actually be smaller and the ball speed will be less.
Seems a more thorough understanding of the mechanics of the inelastic collision (ball compression) is necessary in order to fully understand the result.
Thoughts?
Ball compression does not significantly change when club head V changes, ball contact is far more complex then we describe in a coaching setting and I’m making no attempt to explain it in this video.
The graph is showing kinetics whereas clubhead V is kinematics so simple relationship not necessarily going to be found.
@@BuzzaGolf Thanks Steve. Somewhat surprised that compression is independent of club head speed. So the phrase " Use the lower compression ball. Your swing speed is too low to compress that high compression ball" is incorrect.
I am still confused by the graph. Does it represent the entire downswing or just the moment of impact? Oh, I think I see. Applying a force throughout the downswing continually increases the clubhead speed (and direction) right up to the moment of impact. This is true for both graphs. Tony is applying a higher force for a shorter duration. But if the area under the curves are the same than the momentum delivered by both swings is the same.
I am curious about the dynamics of the swing and the club/ball interaction. Can you provide a reference or two that might help me better understand what is happening and how is is quantified?
Thanks for giving us some insight into this quite provocative subject.
Low compression ball idea is indeed incorrect and yes graph is the downswing not compression. Dr Sasho MacKenzie has done some fantastic mathematical modeling on this topic.
@@BuzzaGolf Thanks Steve.
I like this explanation. And it’s also informative as it pertains to finding your best way to produce speed. Explains why JB Holmes said that he loses yardage when his swing gets longer than it is.
Agree 👌🏻
The usain bolt analogy helped explain it very well. Cheers 👍
I would love some buzza ideas/drills on avoiding 3 putts and putting theory 💁🏻♂️
I know one of the best in the business when it comes to putting, may get them to share some putting gems 💎
Great video buzza. Tony is just chipping when hes hitting driver :) 4:29 buzza captures my goat hump shank swing perfectly.
Realized this on the range one day. My full swing was going 230-250. I literally started going to 9-3 and hit the ball 250 plus. It’s straighter I think is the main thing
You're such a golf nerd and I mean that in a good way. Great explanation though.
Great to get your biomechanical insights on the golf swing! Unfortunately, the force is never with me...
A little calculus from the Buzzman! Love it. Gotta love the force units of Newtons, too. I've always had a fairly long swing though I'm decently explosive and do work on stuff like that in the gym. Other than muscle fiber type and peak power production, say from legs and core, are there any additional factors at play here?
Power potential of each body part. I did a vid on this a few weeks ago. Think there is a long drive playlist, it’s in there👌🏻
I'll check it out.
The IMPULSE is the Force ON the ball x the CONTACT TIME of the club with the ball. It's nothing the do with the time taken to swing the club. It's why footballers and rugby players kick with the side of their foot, not the toe. Kicking with the side increases the contact time, hence the impulse. Basic GCSE Physics.
I have also wondered that. Brilliant explanation.
Good video 👏🏽🙌🏽 well explained
Brilliant vid Steve 👌
Finau's height and long arms give him a longer moment arm than other players. Moreover, his release is a very pronounced old school turning it over rather than the lead wrist extension that Hackmotion has made such a noise about.
His release is similar to Bryson, more of a golfing machine move
Essentially, Tony accelerates faster (applies more force over a shorter time} than most people who take longer (and thus more distance) to accelerate the club to same speed. Interesting stuff Steve..
What Steve said, is very basic in physics. In mathematically it is conservation of momentum-impuls. You transform momentum into impulse or you can transform impulse in to momentum.
When I took the physics class long time ago. There was a student that understand the math, but does not really understand the physics, and the lecturer could not explain any clearer.
In the next lecture, the lecturer find a way to explain. He told the student: “Imagine a carpenter hit a nail - if he need more power he will swing longer - in that longer period he can add speed/power along the way. That speed multiply by mass, what we call momentum, will transformed in to impuls.” The student immediately understand.
Look at the club face: In long swing, more momentum is gathered along the swing, then converted in to impulse in impact. The more momentum gathered the more the impuls.
Now look at the ball: the impact is converted back into momentum back to the ball. The more impuls in impact the faster the ball.
Caveat: Just like the carpenter: if you into power e.g mail into hard wood, you take a long swing. If you into precision, e.g nailing small item, or in golf find a sweet spot, you take a shorter swing.
I bet Tony trains explosiveness in both his golf techniques and in the gym - snatches, cleans, kB swings and medicine ball slams
That would be my guess as well
Great Explanation, I'll stick with my long swing so!
Great explanation 👍🏻
Thanks
Longer swing- more chance to screw up on the timing, etc. Shorter back swing- easier to make contact and hit the ball straight. For the average golfer a shorter back swing will benefit them more than a long back swing. I've played with old guys who poke driver 180-200 yards but hit it right down the middle of the fairway all day long and shoot low scores. Longer drivers does you no good if your in the woods
He's tall, with incredibly long arms, massive width in his swing.
Always interesting to have answer for such questions! Thank you ! #subforgolf #alloverthegolf
Being 6' 4", an excellent athlete and practicing every day?
I agree. I think my problem is I simply forget to swing the club head 120 mph at the start of my down swing
6'5" helps
Yes, being big and strong is beneficial
6'4" and long levers help.
That'd be even more reason to have a longer swing. You're not taking full advantage of the levers by swinging shorter
@@ohsballer You should let Tony know.
Mine similar length swing and am tall and hit 3 iron over 220 and driver 280 to 300. Shows length of swing doesn’t necessarily matter
It is all about hands speed rotation
The power is in Tony's Polynesian genes.
I have a short backswing too. My bodies always ask how I crush it so far. When it looks like I’m doing a half back swing. And I never knew how to answer lol.
Send them this vid 😂🤣😂
@@BuzzaGolf definitely sending it
Tony has a lot of fast twitch fibres!!!!
As do sprinters...
You will find that most golfers that have a shorter swing yet produce distance are strong through the shoulders or forearms, or both.
Yes where your strength is will have massive impact on what your swing should look like
I thought he was saying Insane Boat for the longest. lol
Great video. I fell victim to this idea. I thought if I shortened my backswing it would help with control and be easier on my body. But like you said I had to really work harder through the downswing to generate speed and ended up injuring myself.
It’s a very logical trap to fall into. Hope you’re doing well now 🤘
How do you know whether or not you’re swing should be short or long?
Are you a sprinter??
Buzza Golf yes
Tony is a brotha and thats THAT!
Tony's is a very big man but how do Justin Thomas rory and Xander Get to 120 mph being avg size
The ground force reactions those mentioned players create is insanely good
The guys that talk for 95% of the lesson drive me nuts. Talk less, Hit more.
A true physisssiiiisstttttt 😂
I make better contact with shorter backswings but lack distance. Need abit between
Yes. I feel the same way. I hit the fairway consistently but not long. I see others with a huge backswing and try to lengthen it at the driving range but fail to make good contact. Like my brain doesnt trust my body to make good contact with more of a backswing. I'm thinking 1 or 2 lessons would show whether I should try and develop a more explosive swing or need to go back farther for more yardage. Anyone?
At 6'4" his half swing is still a full swing.
Not really
Finau is a big strong boy who happens to have a shorter than usual backswing
I thought he hit it so far because he is tall with long arms for his height. Why do I never hear biometric experts talk about this. Rory, Rickie Fowler and Hogan also seem to have this advantage. I wonder if they could swing it fast with almost any technique but for them it is all about getting tour level control
All of your player examples are guys that use their body movement, especially the pelvis fantastically.
Neil Mitchell Rory and Rickie are actually quite short guys both under 5’10”
Ok so ...... Dumb question, it is possible in theory then to be a "sprinter" naively persisting to "run the 400m" and burn himself out before the line/ball?
Absolutely and is dependent on sequencing and where they have the power in their body
Disclaimer:
Don't try to sprint on cobblestone in golf shoes unless broken bones are your thing.
Clear as mud 😂🤣
I swing like Tony a half back swing really, and still hit it 300-315 yards. Is he saying if I got more flexible and had a full extension I can hit way further!?
This guy has no clue "how" Tony gets that "impulse". It's width going back, lag during downswing then left leg post up; it's what all the top PGA pros with distance do.
He hits it long because he’s Polynesian haha
Fast twitch muscle. If you ain't athletic like Tony, then don't try it. Simple as that. 😉
Bullocks!!
You talked a lot but didn't actually explain much.
Impulse...
All yak yak yak and no show - crap!
How does he hit it so far? Hmmmm... he’s 6’4?