My DENIED FORD engine has MORE DAMAGE!! Mustang Shelby GT350 REBUILD Part 4!
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
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Hello Doris, I know you have many experts chiming in so I figured I'd give my 2 cents. I'm a senior master tech at a Ford dealer and am the Houston region tech representative on the Ford technician review panel. It looks like a short block would be in your best interest, unless you have a great machine shop that you can get a sponsorship from. Anytime a scratch is deep enough to catch a fingernail on, usually means machining or replacing! Those tiny pieces of hardened metal have floated around the engine and did a job on the oiled surfaces. You're doing a great job with the teardown! Never be afraid to try something like this!
AJ J would she get her core charge back with that damage on a short block, or would it be a new short block?
So, is declining this claim justified? Seems like there's a significant amount of these engines with rear cylinder concerns. Even if this was tuned and was too lean, that's not the type of failure I'd expect to see from a lean condition.
Phil, as Doris explained on a previous video, it isnjustified due to her doing a nonfactory tune on the car. It is like doing a nonfactory tune on a car like a Lamborghini, Ferrari, etc
Wouldn't boring the cylinders and larger pistons be way less expensive than a new block?
@@robertvaughn7796 Except, that's not how things work. Manufacturers and dealerships cannot simply "invalidate" your warranty because you tuned the engine or installed aftermarket parts. It's up to the manufacturer to prove that the tune or any after market parts installation caused the damage. If they cannot prove the tune was responsible for the damge, then Ford is required to cover the warranty claim. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act
I work for a little race engine shop here in the UK. i thought i would add my bit and explain some of this stuff. First the con rods, they need the side clearance to allow the oil to escape. when the oil escapes it take with it the heat from the bearing cooling it. if you have too big of a gap you will not have enough pressure at the bearing face, the crank and bearing will touch and the bearing will fail. Too little gap and the bearing will overheat and fail. just check this against the manual when re assembling.
Piston failure like you have got is normally the result of ring ends butting. normally caused by the rings getting too hot expanding, butting and having nowhere to go. probably down to numerous factors like, that cylinder was a little leaner and it is the furthest from the water pump.
Don't worry about the damage to the squish (quench). just remove the high spots. it doesn't look like there is too much damage around the valve seat.
The block just needs boring. You will be amazed what a 20thou over will clean up.
Hi, first off your doing great 😉. Im a technician from uk and would like to awnser some of your questions.
First off; those bearing shells, at that millage there should be little to no wear at all and the wear you should see in a healthy engine would be very slight but more importantly smooth however, the wear we saw on yours looks like slight scoring as well as the lines you spoke of, this suggests they have “picked up” or in leyland terms they have have a lack in oil pressure and this would be the same for your piston damage too, which to me at first looked a little like pre detonation damage but this would make sense if it was lacking oil pressure at one point as the internal engine temp would rise and possibly cause pre det.
Next, the cylinder head damage; from what i could see that is 💯 reusable with a little cleaning around the damage by smoothing carefully the dents and craters out then getting it skimmed.
Next, the block; yes they look to be be steel lined anyway so any good machine shop would be able to cut the old liner out and put a new liner in and re hone the rest so to awnser your question that too is easily fixable.
Last of all i dont know what pistons and conrods you will be using but i suggest forged h beam rods with a decent forged piston set if you want to run decent power reliably as they not only obviously handle power better but they will cope with slight pre detonations easier too when tuning. Also those bearing faces on the rods should show no wear at all as the shell bearing should not be rotating in the rods when torqued down, if they have been then thats also a sign of lack of oil pressure. If you need any any more help or have any more questions im happy to help or talk you through anything you need. Good luck! 🤪
The tits got you to eh?
If she doesnt correct the problem with oil pressure, detonation or overheat, the engine's gonna fail again. She really doesnt understand what she's doing, she just wants to show off her "skills". I'm just saying how it is.
Comments from guys who can't get a date , grow up . I'm just telling it like it is.
Can’t cut the head .
In my experience, once you spin a bearing you're done, and none of those bearings look spun
That engine definitely looks like it was oil-starved on the back cylinders according to what I saw on the bearings. I would definitely replace the oil pump and check the relief valve (and replace the seal for the pickup tube of course). Also, when you send it to the machine shop, you might get them to remove the plugs in the oil galleries and run a rod through them to insure that none are partially blocked. I'm thinking that damaged pickup tube seal was the root of your problem (i.e. sucking air and foaming the oil). Best to cover all the bases on something like this though. Good work so far!😉👍
Wrong weight oil ( to lite a weight ) and not enough oil changes ----- look at them bearings !!!! with only 5K on the motor ! wow !
Could be damage in oil pump as well with metal in there? Has she taken / checked all that yet? She doesn't know if this level of damage is tune related in a 5K mileage car? It's tune related! Why do people buy tuned / engine voided cars at 5K - you KNOW someone trashed it if they are selling it that early with no warranty. The seller must have felt like they'd found an angel to bail them out!
Note that ford warranties these engines for 5 years - 60K miles! If you think Ford has the money to put a new long block in every 5K miles - no way. This is 100% tune / user error (oil etc).
@@hydroy1 Factory recommendation for oil on the 2018-2019 Coyote engine is 10 qts. of 5w20 full-synthetic. If it's supercharged, 5w50 is recommended. Cheap oil isn't an option on these.😉
I agree with you totally. Get a proper machine shop to check crank and block oil galleries. replace no8 cyl liner and piston, replace rings on the other pistons. regrind crank. Cyl head be advised.Definitely change the oil pump.
If you still have it, cut the old oil filter open, you might find some bits you are missing.
The movement of the rods is side clearance, you can measure it with a feeler gauge, but pretty normal.
If you were to mount it without some play, the engine would seize as soon as it heats up, as everything expands a bit while heating.
Each engine has it owns specifications for connecting rod side clearance. Typical from 0.008 to 0.016 inches. Tolerance is about +/- 0.0045. Check the specs on the engine you are working on. Feeler gauge should have a slight drag when you have chosen the correct size feeler gauge. The feeler gauge should be coated with oil to assure there is no excessive friction.
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Play in the connecting rods is normal. It's mainly for thermal expansion. You can measure the play with a feeler gauge and compare with the specs.
Thanks! That makes sense. I thought maybe the bearings were thinned out.
Just out of curiosity was that a Harbor Freight Jaw puller set? I bought a set a few years back and used them for while for removing stuck brake rotors that didnt have screw holes to thread bolts to push them out in. A couple years ago I was doing my mother's front brakes and used the large puller to try to remove the rotor off and ended up snapping off one of the ears on one of the arms of the puller. I am no surprised the screw was bending on you. I am not a tool snob I have a few HF items but I'm glad something didn't snap on you like it did on me you could've gotten hurt and no one wants that :)
Might just be time for a new engine. That one head isn’t fixable and short of putting a new sleeve in for cylinder 8, the motor will just be the easier route.
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Being that this is an expensive rebuild...I would have your crank sent out for polishing...as well as having it mic'd....this way your clearances for your bearings are 100 percent....polishing ensures the new bearings will have a better than new surface to ride on...reducing wear as well long term....I would replace the oil pump......whenever your that deep into a motor it's a given to replace it....not sure what pistons your gonna choose...but if you send out the block for deglazing have your bores measured for round...making sure they are not oval.....you really are just making sure that the bore didn't cause that ring lan failure....usually it will crack the skirt of the piston but you never know.....it will pay dividends to send it out have it hot tanked degalzed ...measured and spec'd for pistons....are you building the short block?...also send the heads for sure....look into decking it for gasket seal.....something wasnt happy inside that motor and you have to eliminate everything...good luck doris
There is a lot of planning to do. I will build myself; however, I will have a shop measure and make sure everything is in spec. Hopefully I can be there and see them do this. They should provide a sheet I can double check at home which I will do. Almost thing that came out of that engine will go back in. Most will be new or upgraded parts. I think new will be better than building.. I really don't want to go through with this if the sleeving process fails or it's not decked properly. Thanks for watching!
@@woman.driven well I definitely commend you for taking on this challenge alot of men would steer away from....excited to hear that first start up...
Woman.Driven if you are going to reuse the heads and plan on having them decked, take a look at Pistons and Pixedust channel. she has an informative series on getting her head straightened before decking.
Kenny you give good advice.
It never overheated. Safe to assume the heads are straight? I think Doris has a more pressing issue with the #8 area on the head where it gorged a small depression into that head. That's concerning.
Doris, the bearing all look ok imo, the minor scoring is probably from debris from your broken piston/ring getting into the oil system. Typically seen in all engine failures. Shouldn't be any concern. The head damage doesn't look bad since its not on a wear or sealing surface. Please have your machine shop look at the exhaust valve seat to make sure the valve seat is ok. The cylinder damage should be repairable, although I don't know if there are any issues I'm unaware of since i never built one of these engines.
The failure does appear to be ring lands, and the missing pieces were digested by your engine, most are probably trapped in your catalytic converter or exhaust, and some got into your oiling system causing minor bearing scoring that doesn't concern me, just get all the grit out, perhaps with a steam cleaner, or let the machine shop "cold tank" your block.
My gut feeling is you will need a new cylinder sleeve, new pistons rings and bearings. Mill the heads and check the exhaust valve seat that the piston parts passed through, and perhaps replace the one valve, the rest can be reground and reused. Dont worry about the black valves, it was because the cylinder was leaking oil into exhaust, but can easily be cleaned.
You can measure the rod bearing side play with feeler gauges to confirm it's within spec. If not, I would be surprised, as that is not likely anything that happened under your watch. If that gap is excessive, it probably came that way from factory.
Keep in mind that although I have been building engines since the 1970s, I've never done one of these but have been ASE certified master auto tech since 1985 (ret).
My gut feeling is you didn't cause this and many of these motors seem to be eating pistons and Ford should step up and cover this, or at least give you a new engine. This car was built to race, and nothing you did should cause piston failure. I think it should have taken everything you threw at it and more. I would consult a lawyer.
Discoloration of the cylinders doesn't concern me, but your machine shop needs to take a closer look.
If you want, get a micrometer and check your crank journals, or let your machine shop do it for you, but it's highly unlikely to be a problem there.
Did your engine have good oil pressure after the failure? If you are unsure, I'd have the pump checked just to be safe.
If I can be of any help, let me know.
Loved the video!
I totally agree with you on all counts. The head and block can both be saved. Broken ring lands are likely the result of detonation. Perhaps that cylinder ran lean under high heat and the resulting detonation shocked the ring land until it broke. Then, the trash from that ended up in the oil, causing the scoring of the bearings. Doris will get it all sorted out. This will be an interesting rebuild series.
This dude knows his stuff
I have no knowledge of Ford engines, aluminum blocks or modern day, high tech engines, just small block and big block Chevys. I have a question, just for my own information. You stated that the cylinder damage should be repairable (I have no idea). That looks like an all aluminum block and if so it would have cast iron sleeves in it, I'm guessing. If that's the case, then can't you have the cylinder liner pushed out and a new one pressed in or can the cast iron sleeve be bored oversized?
I would agree with Stephen. I just built a 5.4 triton engine and ran it too lean and caused my engine to spin a bearing which caused a lot more problems with bent pins and rings. And I didn’t have very many miles on my new engine either. This engine had all Manley rods/pistons and cobra jet crank. Surprisingly enough the rods held up when the bearing decentegrated. Anyway mine definately came from running too lean and didn’t take long!! I would say be careful with timing and AFR for sure.
@@alphaone101 most blocks are cast with the cylinders in place so they cannot be pressed out. I have seen some exceptions usually on diesel engines But in this case, you can bore the iron liner oversized and use over-sized Pistons. In this case We have seven good cylinders And one with pretty deep damage. So what they will likely do is for it oversized And Press a sleeve into the cylinder. Then you can hold all the cylinders to the exact size to match your new Pistons. In this case. Hopefully the aftermarket has higher quality Pistons available So this will not happen again.
Answers to your 2 main concerns:
1) Short block doesn't need to be replaced, just replace the sleeve (non flanged). Don't accept reboring as a fix, you're running a tuned engine so you'll want wall strength. The thinner the sleeve, the more likely it is that you'll burst through to the water jacket... especially if you eventually run boost. Any good machine shop specialized in engines will resleeve this easily.
2) Cylinder head scoring can be welded and machined. May as well also take the opportunity to port and flow the head. As you're planning to use new valves, these should be ground and polished to the seats using a fine grinding paste to get a perfect seal.
3) Wear on bearing material was likely caused by metal filings making its way through the oiling system. The disassembled block and heads should be run through ultrasonic baths to remove all the residual oil varnish and to flush out all the metal filings.
4) Since you are going to be taking the block and heads to a machine shop, I highly suggest providing them with the whole rotating assembly. Have all the pistons and rods balanced, and the crankshaft inspected (due to issues cylinder 8) balanced and polished. Unless you have the tools to measure, may as well get them to gap the piston rings for you too. Also the Perfect time to get your engine blue printed 😉 Good luck with the rebuild, you're doing an amazing job!!
The engine was oil starved at the back, knowing that this car is tracked, an upgraded oil pump, an oil pan baffle (huge huge must) and of course be sure to use the correct weight oil and also make sure to change oil before track days regardless of miles on the oil change. The issue that happened here was a mix between not so great engine design and oil starvation.
I’d recommend not reusing any bearings. You have the motor apart you should use new bearings and check all of your clearances.
Definitely get the rods checked, end caps included. I'd have it at the machine shop and get everything checked. She won't want to do it twice. Crank and caps should be checked as well as alignment.
All the stuff needs to be checked at a machine shop.
She rebuilding engines while I’m over here still looking for the 10mm
I've taken to throwing the 10mm away as soon as I get a new set of sockets. This saves the heartache of looking for the missing 10mm.
10mm is metric...not imperial....and every modern car in existence uses nearly all metric and has for years. Since at least the 80's on most...
Every time I start a repair project, I buy a dozen 10mm sockets, I expect to lose them
Oh ya... that friggen 10 mm 😡
Jeff Housen lol u got that right. Also an 8mm and 13. I’m alway buying these 3.
When installing or removing pistons or crankshaft journal caps always use a dead blow hammer a regular hammer will damage or distort the rods and journals
personally I always use a wooden handle/stick.
Just a few ideas, make sure nothing bumps the crank journals on dis and assembly. Note each rod and main cap location and orientaion. Sleave number 8, hone the rest. Replace at least the one piston, all new rings/bearings. Inspect internals of oil pump. Looks like some debris went thru the rod bearings (lines on the bearing). With chambers up on the heads and plugs installed, pour liquid (water or fuel) in each chamber and see if there is leakage down the ports, or pour into the ports and check chambers. No leaks means no problem there. The debris from number 8 rings/piston went thru that exhaust port, stopping to munch that seat. Replace that seat. Looks to me like the oil ring was bound up on factory assembly and ate the wall... You should get a set of mics and a bore gauge.
I love this! i love that you are taking pieces apart and explaining how its done i really enjoy watching a car be redone. most videos on them don't explain everything. Thank you for doing this. I always wanted to be a mechanic but it was so much thoughts of worry. but you just dove right in there. most things I've done were things changing oil and replacing things simple things.
I have built many engines and I really am impressed at how clean and efficient you work and you really know alot and I’m willing to bet your more knowledgeable than most bafoons in the dealer I seen them in action too I used to work next to them your really impressive
She's an actress dude. Compliment her handlers
Hater
azspotfree She's got a strong body build, short nails, and the creases in the back of her hand and in her fingernails sometimes have dirty grease in them. If she's not real, she definitely does some work.
Looks like micro piece of the Piston dome ran thru the oiling system and did the grooving and scratches in the journals, Main Bearing Caps and Probably oil pump too.
That rod sode to side play is normal just need to use a feeler and make sure its within spec
There is a rod clearance. Check it in your manual. When assembly check the journal to rod clearance, either with plasticgage or micrometer. I use both as a precaution. Also when torching the rod bolts use a stretch meter.
Hot tank the engine block at the machine shop and have them check it with a black light to inspect for potential cracks, and if so, replace the block. If block is O.K. have it bored .030 over, and of course, hone all cylinders 60 degrees cross hatch. Replace connecting rods with lightweight high performance ones, same with bearings, pistons and rings.
Have the crankshaft balanced.
Use plastigage to check connecting rods to crankshaft tollerances. Install piston rings with seams 180° opposed from each other i.e. alternating order. Use the best rebuild kit for your engine, no cheap kits, as your engine block is the foundation of your vehicle, just as a good house foundation is critical before you build a house. Have the heads remachined and fitted to the block and use roller rocker arms, new push rods and replace any bad valve guides. Replace valve springs with high performance ones. Use high quality racing valves. Replace camshaft with a new racing performance one. Replace injectors with racing ones. Replace plugs with autolite for Mustang and high performance ignition cables. Buy the engine programmer to dial in performance parameters.
Regarding connecting rods play, it is measured with a feeler gauge, so check factory specs.
When removing your pistons and main caps make sure you put them back on the exact way they came off. They're machined together so if you put them on a different main or flip them tolerances will be messed up binding and other bad things will happen. Would definitely recommend buying a micrometer and bore guages. Check your tolerances MULTIPLE times. Also watch as many engine building videos as you can find so you can get the correct tolerances for all your new bearings and everything like that. I want to build a 351w for my 95 cobra so I've been watching lots of videos and you can never watch too many. Take your time do your research before you reassemble and I'm sure you'll have one hell of a confidence boost under your belt!! Good luck Doris. I believe in you
unfortunately the rods are cracked caps not machined flat!
As forensic teardowns go, this is thorough, organized, with appropriate redundancy. Solid work.
Just as a recommendation I would bolt the rod caps back on and mic the caps for roundness as well as mic the rod journals on the crank shaft too.
Egg shapped bores are no good. Can cause higher bearing loading and accelerated bearing wear, lower oil pressure, all leading to catastrophic failures. Wouldn't hurt to check the camshaft bores too, although with low mileage like this, the cam bores shouldn't be worn.
Of note: watch for any fastener that is "torque to yield". These are one-time-use-only bolts. They are tightened until they yield or stretch. Once removed they are tossed and replaced. Also, large-end piston rod side clearance should be checked with a feeler gauge. Your manual should have the range specified. Rod caps should not have any gouges. If they do the bearing has spun. The rod caps must be installed on the same rod in the same direction they were removed from. The "black ring" you see is there the piston stops its downward travel and starts back up. Similar to the wear ridge near the top of the cylinder. Good work so far. Keep it up.
First not enough room to say everything. But I’ve been wrenching over 50 years I’m super impressed with you. At exactly 10.52 mins you made a statement about rod wear on rod minus the bearing. The two half’s of the bearing are stationary in the rod cap journal area and don’t spin within the rod assembly. That browning you see on that rod with bearing out is ok. YOU ARE Great !!
The cylinder head may be able to be saved by replacing the valve seat and some welding and machining. Most important when reassembling the cylinder head regardless of who has done the machine work the valve seat concentricity must be checked with a dial gauge. TRW have a valve seat concentricity tool which slides over a valve guide pilot which is inserted into the guide. The tool slides onto the pilot and the arm of the tool sits on the valve seat and you can rotate the arm around the seat to check for bumps. The specifications are maximum valve seat run out 2.5 thou. If there is a bump higher than 2.5 thou then you will have a constant vacuum leak. I always spent the extra time getting the run out to 0.
Keep up the good work.
Some went out your exhaust. Some small pieces are embedded in your bearings, and the rest went in the oil and oil filter.
no pieces in the bearings that i saw
Am I the only one over here marveling at how clean she keeps her garage and work space? I wish my garage was that clean and organized😂
That's is amazing organization.
its because shes doing doing one job at a time so that's why if you were a fleet mechanic you would have more of a mess lol
Its called a woman thing why i wouldn't mind hiring women if they ever applied at my old shop but non ever did
You wish?? It's all up to you.. start cleaning
No. Jealous af. That's what I want but I have ....different 😑
The salt and pepper are the piston fragments you were looking for. They were chewed up in the combustion chamber and some of them got between the piston and cylinder wall. They can blow back up through the intake as well and down into other cylinders. You probably had some of that salt in the oil too when you drained it. If you cut the filter open, it will be there too. The carbon build up is due to incomplete combustion, caused by the broken piston ring land, which in turn broke the ring. The ring land breaks when it cannot handle the combustion pressure. The diagonal marks on the backs of the bearing shells are not a problem. What you look for there are locator tabs that are shaved off the bearing shells and scoring on the backs of the bearings and the block, caps or rods in the rotational plane, which is known as a spun bearing. The only spinning should be the crank journal on a film of oil in the babbit. That would require corrective action. Fortunately you don't have any spun bearings. The patterns on the babbitt are kind of weird. Maybe some chemical etching going on from fuel contamination after the ring land broke. Fuel is not a good lubricant for bearings, nor is coolant, which has a unique coloration and peeling of the babbitt. As for concerns of possible oil starvation due to pump type supply issues, you need to look at the oil galley diagram to see where the pump output enters the main galley. (Mopar guy here, so an example I know) On an old 318 CID, 7 & 8 are the back 2 cylinders. The pump feeds the main galley with a tee intersection between the 4th and 5th main. At the galley it splits in both directions and dead ends at the rear of the engine within inches and the front after over a foot. Pressure builds at main 5 first, which supplies rods 7 & 8. Pressure then builds at main 1 and works back to main 4, making main 4 the starve bearing of the 5 mains. Main 4 feeds rods 5 & 6, which are drilled at opposite angles and maybe differing locations in the rotation (I forget). The opposite angles and or rotational position make rod 6 the starve bearing on a Chrysler 318. Every engine group has its own starve pattern (i.e. FCA's 273, 318, 340 and 360 are all the same in terms of oiling), which also transfers into the cylinder head, which has its own galleys for the cams. As for the warranty coverage, after seeing this repair series, I checked your playlists and found the E85 tuner mod install, comments in one of the dyno videos about issues getting the tune dialed in, dyno testing and racing on the track. I don't know the Ford warranty, but the FCA warranty could void the engine on mods or the racing. The above is based on 20 years as an FCA tech followed by 22 years in automotive forensics. Nonetheless, this is an impressive undertaking for someone seemingly not trained in the business. Oh, and on the crank pulley puller, the center bolt seems a little skimpy in diameter, more like a steering wheel puller. On the first puller, you can also try unbolting the puller arms and flipping them as well. They may still have been too big to get in there, but keep that in mind.
I'm a middle aged man watching a girl in a garage that costs more than my house, what went wrong in my life 8(
U dream 2 small still have time to dream big and go at it quit at 70 u still good go for it
Welcome to the poor life chooses party, you are not alone.
Have you seen the new garage?
@@dannyramhit1472 Don't get me wrong my life isn't THAT bad. I do a job I enjoy with people I like and make enough money to carry out my hobbies.
@@JoseGonzalezJunior No did she get a new outfit to go with it
>8D
You've gone farther than I've gone into my motor. Seems like a lot of people have been commenting with their opinion. Keep up the good work!
Should be no wear on back side of the bearings but the inside of the bearing look really bad for 5k miles almost like it had alot of grit in the oil
Damn..that's no good. I did notice once the misfires happened, I was a qt low on oil both times at the track. I filled up and kept tracking until the misfires got worse. At that point, I knew I had a problem.
Just looking at what I can see through the TV I saw some, what I consider, strange wearing in that motor. Way too much for 5k but also weird markings on the rods and mains themselves behind the bearings, not counting the damage on the one head and the severe damage on cylinder 8.
@@woman.driven have Kevin compare the images to his bearings at first teardown. only you, him, and ShelbyExotics are the only 3 using the car as it's intended with the same extended high RPM use profile. good or bad, comparing to others scared to drive their cars will likely not be very telling. btw you should be inspecting the INSIDE 👀 of the bearing shells where oil pressure is delivered not the outsides (no oil pressure there) that's just where they rest in the cap and the rod. if they had moved/spun, you would already know it, as many others have discovered. ref Jeff Ashton... ua-cam.com/video/UOwSoDk5J70/v-deo.html&t
@@woman.driven yeah the missing quart did not cause the engine damage (would not ) it was the cause of the oil usage
@@phillyphil1513 Just more Ford JUNK engines! Lawsuit coming IT never ends with Ford
I would invest in buying micrometor, and other measurement equipment to properly built that engine
0-6 inch micrometer set and a 0-6 inch dial bore gauge. Also buy the reher Morrison engine book, it's not cheap but it's worth it's weight in gold. Also the mahle clevite catalog will give you all factory blueprinting specs. With the measuring equipment and mahle book and the reher Morrison book you will be on your way to proper engine building.
@@Dumbass_mechanic that's great if your building a old school small block ford but these modern engine have tighter clearance.
Just don't by the tools at Harbor Freight! If you're going to use junk chinese tools that are not accurate you might as well save the money and do it without them.
@@dkrink3 I completely agree get some good quality measurement equipment we are talking about .002 of inch measurements on these modern engines
my dad would remove old rod and main bearings on the mains and would take 1/4 inch soft brass round stock, either hammer it into a nearly flat for removing the bearings like you are just tapping them with the brass tool around the curve from the side that has no notch. get an inch out and you can just roll them out with a light tug. brass round stock was always great to work with softer surfaces because it would deform before doing anything to the tougher metals of the block or crank. before you rebuild the engine, something as serious as the engine that runs that hard and high rpm, use new engine fasteners, dont reuse the ones that are exposed to such high torque or lots of heat cycles. its relatively cheap insurance for something so expensive. ive built a few 427 side oilers and they redlined at 7500rpm and always used new bolts, even on the oil pan, for no other reason than they came in the set. i sure miss hitting 5th gear on the long flat straight roads in that 66 fairlane and humming along at 6000rpm and 150 or so mph
I’ve built about seven engines for my fox body cougar. Make sure you take that block to the machine shop, along with having the heads done and pressure tested. Then recheck bore with micrometer before ordering pistons and rings.
Also don’t forget to install your main bearings and crank caps first then take a measurement. Compare measurements with your crank journal measurement. The journal is the parts of the crank that will be riding on the main bearings.
knowing that you want to learn how to do this stuff makes it difficult to suggest this as trying is learning but, after learning the hard way for many years and after many years now building strong reliable engines i suggest you ring texas speed and order a short motor, explain how you want it to drive and the power your looking for then you can unbox it, drop it in , get on with your life, knowing you will also have warranty behind you if it pops again , if yours pops again your back to square one. that block is scrap in reality and the head is too, they can be fixed at a price.rebuilding yours yourself might seem like the cheaper and more fun options but its not, it will be a pain in your arse for ever more.. just my opinion , i`m not always right but i`m also not always wrong.
my main concern is that ford have the cheek to backheal the repair, a GT350 that shits a ring seat on pump gas !!!! they should replace your engine out of shame for building it weak in the first place ! and burnt build lube on the shells, big and main is just unprofessional . throw it together , warm it up and get it sold isnt the way forward FORD . SHAME ..
Best advice would be to take the heads, rotating assembly, and block to your machine shop and let them tell you what can be done, what can be saved, and what needs to be replaced... the block, looks like it can be bored and honed.
That would be my suggestion too... I would also look into getting the rotating assembly balanced and blueprinted.
The wear on components does not look like a 5k motor, damn.
5k driven hard but keep in mind engine probably wasn't broken in yet. So clearences tighter then normal with one already allowed to go threw a break in period so push it hard this is the end result. Think that's why her piston rings failed which in say it was the tune. Properly tuned the tune would of prevented engine cylinder reaching high enough temps.
Perfect time for her to get H beam rods and forged pistons.
ya looks like at least 100k or a boosted engine. but i guess if it was never broken in properly that could cause it as well but realy too me it looks like a over boost damage. looks like to me the first ring compressed and hit against its self
@@djmv2002 Ummmmmmmmm NO.
@@djmv2002 naaah, 5K miles, it was broke in even with Molly rings , but look at them BEARINGS ! oh man ---- WRONG WEIGHT OIL ! and not enough oil changes .
@@djmv2002 Bearings if they are done correctly does not need any breakin at all, and if they do need breakin they where too tight to beging with and WILL lead to a enginge that will have a really serious lowered lifespan.
If it is rollerbearings we talking about so yes they need a very short breakin period that in almost all cases is already done by the bearing factory, but that is not what we talk about here.
What DO needs breakin is pistonrings and for a small part the pistons them self.
And here it exits two differnt schools.
1, Breakin easy.
2, Breakin as hard as you can.
For more info on why the hard way is the according too me (and most enginge builders/car/mc/truck manufacturers, since they do breakin hard too) read this www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
But in short rings/cylinderwalls need to breakin as fast as possible too get the best possible seal, which in turn will lead to less friction=less heat/more power but also stoping more sot/and other crap from the combustion from getting down into the oil/stick to the pistons/cylinderwall=less wear overall even on the main/connecting rod earings.
And i have been in the breakin easy for 20+years and have broken in 10+ different engines that way and after some years the pistons have been browned/blackend on the sides far below all rings on those engines.
Then after i found that site i tried it on 5 other engines and it was a big difference after some years the pistons in the engines that i broke in hard was like new and no browning/blackend at all below the top ring.
5:57 IDK what the spec is for a Ford engine but you have clearance between the rods and the crank or else they would rub and build up friction and heat. There is also clearance between all rod and main bears and the journals for oil clearance. Most modern engines run a tight oil clearance unless opened up a little for high performance applications. For example I know on LS engines they can be as little as .001 for oil clearance from the factory but for say an engine for drag racing making a lot of power might have it around .003 to allow a lot more oil. The reason for this is because when the cylinder fires and the piston comes down it has a lot of force and wants to squirt the oil out from between the bearing and the journal. The larger clearance allows more oil to act as a cushion more or less and prevent all the oil from squirting out and having metal to metal contact. Also, more oil clearance allows for a heavier weight oil that helps even more.
First off I'd like to congratulate on taking the initiative to fix your own HIGH PREFORMACE ENGINE... BRAVO! During disassembly on the rod caps you can use an impact driver to just zip the bolts out, also to avoid a rod cap from flying out of control, lift one of the bolts and lightly tap it with a dead blow hammer until you see the cap move. Once you see this use both bolt and squeeze them together and lift your cap out and place accordingly. Further, this is a high performance engine the piston removal is going to be a little more difficult due to the rings being tighter. If you can find a hardened plastic drift punch tap the rod lightly until it clears the crank (be careful not to scratch the crank) then with your strongest hand push the rod straight down keeping your other hand near the bore and catch the piston. I would suggest watching POWER NATION videos on engine rebuilding, tons of great engine building videos.
She's out here rebuilding engines like a damn champ
meanwhile I'm struggling trying to replace my oil cooler line... lmao bruh
rvidal0001 - false, she has dudes helping her 🙄 but you go girl 😒 take all that credit.
She’s a very sharp cookie!
rvidal0001 She definitely has more money than me, I am assuming old family money, but money, time and opportunity sure help out.
rvidal0001 With a name like “Monkey Wrenching” I would be surprised if things get done. She says when she needs help and explains why. She also mentions the service manual a million times. Just like one stated above.. if you have the time and tools, anyone can learn if they can read and possess basic comprehension skills.
@rvidal0001 Shes lying to everyone that she does the work herself. Thats the only problem i see with this channel.
I'm always impressed by the work you do you really have a good head on your shoulders and your not scared to ask that's a good trait keep it up girl 👍
I can't remember what the story was as to how the engine was hurt, but what this looks like is piston ring butting. Likely the tune was too aggressive and high combustion temps lead to that cylinder 8 piston ring expanding and butting the ring gap, pushing into the piston and causing all sorts of hell as seen there. When you rebuild the engine you could gap the rings a bit more to reduce the risk of that happening in the future. It wouldn't be an issue as far as power goes, maybe a tiny bit more oil consumption, but not bad. Looks like you're on the right track!
Very plausible. these motors are knows for # 8 doing this.
Yeah cylinder 8 valves were black, something got hot in there and melted rings..
0.004" per inch of bore for good end gap.
6:14 pro tip: before removing pistons/rods use a number punch and mark the rod and rod end 1 through 8 corresponding with the cylinders. Then, once you break torque you loosen the bolts (or nuts if you run studs) a few turns and use a plastic mallet to tap on the heads of the bolts to separate the rod end from the rod and free up the rod from the bearing journal on the crankshaft. If you're replacing everything it really doesn't matter but say you don't intend to be replacing components this allows you to put them back in the correct location and prevent damage from disassembly. But doing this is good practice even if replacing everything so you can easily see what cylinders had damage upon inspection after disassembly. Not all damage is obvious so this just makes it easier to note what damage occurred where. Every bit of wear or damage is telling you a story about how the engine was doing so the better you document it the better you can plan to prevent a future issue or even failure. It's already costing you money once, it's even worse when the issue repeats itself!
There is no problem with the gap between the 2 con rods. Oil would be slopping up there when the engine is running so no worries. #8 cylinder is pretty scored, probably deeper than a hone can take out, so may have to go first oversized piston for that cylinder(meaning a machine shop has to bore it out. They would know for sure by looking at it. You would need an oversize piston for that cylinder. The valve seat is something a machine shop or engine rebuild shop would know by looking at it as to what needs to be done. Maybe a valve seat insert can be put in? The shop will know. This is not something you can do in your shop. Let them have that valve as well and they will determine whether the valve is OK or it needs replacing too.
. As for the bearings, it don't matter as you are replacing them all with new ones. Both crankshaft and cam shaft bearing sets & Piston rings. You are replacing with new ones standard size except for cylinder 8 which got its own special oversize piston and ring set.
. Why #8 had an issue? Don't know. Maybe bad install and they cracked a ring? That can happen so easily.
. The dark rings in the cylinder bores is not a concern. It may be where the pistons stopped so is basically ring marks.
. A machine shop or engine rebuild shop will clean up the block real good.
. You might inquire at the machine shop as they may want to reassemble that engine back together(so they will want the pistons & camshafts & heads.) Different shops do different things. Some do barely anything & others do the whole kaboodle.
I've got to give you props for taking on this huge project. Good job! Triple.
I don’t have any tech advice or input. Just wanted to offer a pat on the back. If someone asked me what the point of UA-cam was, I would show them this channel. Great work! Keep um coming.
A woman who knows her way around cars. Now that's HOT!!!
Yes, this IS hot!! It's also a wonderful thing; it takes confidence to take on a job like this. Standard automotive maintenance, about $40... an engine problem diagnosis, about $100... females who aren't afraid to jump into an engine overhaul, priceless.
Both the block and the head are salvagable. As I said in a previous post you need to get the cylinder bored till the scratches are gone. Then you need to get it measured.
Then you need to find the next oversized piston which will either fit the current bore size or is slightly larger, then get the bore machined to fit the piston and the hone it. The bearings look fine but I would replace them just in case they picked up metal from the piston. Do not replace the valves including cylinder 8. The valves have married to the valve seats. Cyl 8 valves are black because the oil that was passed through the broken rings and burned on them.. The valves and valve seats look fine. Just clean the valves for cyl 8 and I think they will work fine. For the Head, gently remove the excess metal particles (yeah I don't know what that means either) and you're good to go.
That head is fine. Use a Dremel tool with a sandpaper roll, smooth out the gouge in the quench area and that little bit around exhaust valves. Use a little valve grinding compound a map of all the valves in to the seats before you put the head back together.
Gee wiz that’s horrible for 5000 miles scored bearings is a symptom of poor oiling.
@sean hubin You mean for a Ford. This is what "Built Ford Tough" Looks like. Coyotes and Voodoos, hell almost all of Fords OH V8s havin major premature catastrophic failures. This is a GT350. This engine is intended to live from 5,000rpm-8250rpm all the time. Ford dropped the ball. 100% not her fault.
@sean hubin that's just a bullshit excuse. you know damn well all the tune does is adjust the fueling a little bit here and there. it wasn't lean. that motor suffered from a poor engine builder at the factory setting the ring gap too small. this is why if you boost an engine you need to set the gap bigger. wrong gaps will destroy a piston before a lean tune will.
@sean hubin racing does not equal abuse. This is meant as a track car. I get that tunes can void a warranty but your blanket statement makes no sense.
@sean hubin i think your the one not getting what the other dude is saying
Use the same jack handle "cheater bar" for turning the motor on the stand.
Even the pump bar from the engine hoist works great.
Seems like there's been a lack of oil because all that scouring is way too heavy for an engine of that age. Also, rods shouldn't be moving that much
she is aware that the engine was eating oil. the cylinder was blown from the engine overheating. likely caused the piston rings to touch and bend either up or down. the scoring is from the dead pistons chunks flying around inside the block.
Hello, a small observation, when you do strength work such as removing the screws of the heads, pistons and bench for your safety it is better to pull the tool than to push it, if it is released or skid your body will hit the block ... .security before everything. nice day.
Concerning the #8 cylinder, The scarring on the sidewall is from the broken pieces of the piston ring. The same for the scarring in the #8 combustion chamber. More than likely, you'll need to have the #8 cylinder re-sleeved, and bored to spec. Any competent machine shop can do that for you.
As for the combustion chamber, I would carefully check the seating surfaces of all four valves. If there are no deep gouges, or cuts in the seating surface of either the head seats or the valves, you can save the head. Scrubbing with kerosene will remove all the carbon deposits from the combustion chamber and the valves, (I recommend a brass -bristle wire brush). Light scratches in the seating surfaces can be lapped out.
There is usually a magnet in the oil pan, or near the oil pickup tube, that should have the trapped fragments of the broken piston ring. I would also recommend flushing the oil passages in the block, just in case any of the fragments are in there. In a situation like that, I would have cut open the oil filter to see if any got in there, that would tell me if I had any stray metal flowing through my engine.
Doris over here being master mechanic I’m over here just taking it all in like I know what I’m looking at 😂
Whenever disassembling and the engine for the first time you should take a number punch and punch the cylinder number into the Rod Signifying the cylinder it came out of
Develop IT I have never heard of somebody’s rod bending or breaking because they number punched the rod cap
@@russell11fitzgerald You can use a paint marker too, do the same thing
Fusion2016 A paint marker is not going to stay on during any machining work obviously you guys have never taken a part built or machined an engine until you have stopped trolling
@@russell11fitzgerald it won't stay on during machining but you can mark the rods and caps and you should know who cylinder is which when you decide to disassemble an engine... I've been working on cars since I was 14 years old, I'm far from a troll
Are you watching and listening Ford?
She's doing all the leg work for your lack of building a good motor
Don't know if anybody else mentioned this but usually with that kind of scoring in a cylinder you would need to bore the cylinder and replace the piston. You don't really just want to do one cylinder so that means a new set of pistons and reboring the whole block. This is an aluminum block with steel or cast iron sleeves. There is a limit to how much you can bore these blocks...old cast iron blocks had more material but were much heavier. You need to measure the bore with a good bore gauge but this damage doesn't look too bad. It might clean up on .010" oversize. There should be a spec on that and it depends on what oversize pistons are available for it but the only way to tell for sure is to put it into the honing machine and bore it until it cleans. Any scoring left at all will cause it to blow oil.
You need a good machine shop. :-) Good Luck!
This is amazing that you dove in head first and decided to learn to go this far into the engine. Wishing you the best for the rebuild.
My kinda girl! Hanging out in the garage and working on cars.Great videos!
she's not your anything mate.
I'm not sure how many times you rebuild hey motor but when taking off the rods and bearing caps they have to stay the same rod and oriented in the same exact Direction
yep. should use stamps to mark them. but they are fracture split they will only go back together one way as long as she pays attention to the fit.
The scoring to the bearings is due to metal contamination from a failure somewhere
Impressive work! You will certainly want to send the heads to a machine shop and let them check them out or prep them if you will reuse them. The block too if you will reuse it.
No need to worry about the rod caps, and the under sides of the bearings. The bearings look fine, except for the one with the line going through it. But you have to remember that you took the car to the track. I would up grade the oil pump to high flow gears for better oiling.
I’m very proud of you taking on this big task of rebuilding your engine your Awesome 😎 block looks salvageable but head is questionable
Dive in, ask questions. That's how you learn! Great vids
And here I was proud that I replaced my injectors on my Volvo 😆 I would be proud to have you as a neighbour 😁
Hello Doris, the connecting rod movement is normal. It is that way so when the engine warms up it won't lock up. The head is bad to much damage on cylinder 8. As for the block I would find a great machine shop and they can check it. From the video I would say it will need to be bored out. I would look for a forged set of connecting rod and pistons. Lastly make sure you rebalance the crankshaft and balance the connecting rod and pistons.
Gapping the rings is one major task in engine building. Especially if you are going to do forced induction stuff. Most probably on C8 it was done wrong or this cylinder was running lean for a reason. So when installing the new engine I would suggest to flow test also the injectors and in doubt replace them all together. Even if there are fuel filters small debris can break through and gets to the injectors. Such small debris can also clog the injector just that much that it is enough for a lean condition. It doesn't mean that there is detonation occurring, You would see signs of that on the piston and heads but it was maybe enough to heat this cylinder more and together with a to narrow ring gap it was enough that the ring ends touched and expanded further until the ring lands broke.... happens a lot to boosted engines when there was not enough gap.
Dorace you amaze me everytime I watch you! You have no fear tarring into an engine that would make most men cry just thinking about it! You not only taik the talk you also walk the walk! YOU GO GIRL
First off if you have any basic mechanical skills you can tell this video is fake and shes not actually doing any real work. She doesn't even have access to the right tools
Hello, from other videos I have looked at, your piston damage looks similar to incorrect piston ring end gap.
I was thinking the same thing. It does look like it blew out the ring groove which would be consistent with the end gaps being too tight.
Ring gap, cracked a ring, threw it up compression side, I agree. Question is what was the cause of that.
My guess is the cylinder ran super hot. The rings expanded beyond normal due to crazy high temps. Look at the valves, they are burnt. My guess is a lean issue on that cylinder for a extended period of time.
Morning Doris, yet another great show, I was just talking to my wife about how good you are her reply was yes she is. Keep up the good work and stay safe God bless 😇
Thank you I appreciate it. That's very kind for both of you to say. Thanks for taking the time to watch. Cheers!
My wife is jealous of Doris!!! 😒just shows has insecure she is within her self any hoot keep up the great work woman driven
It's a show and I don't believe Doris is disrespecting anyone,
Just to answer a couple of your questions:
1: When removing pistons use a dead blow hammer and if you need an extension use a wooden dowel rod to tap on.
2: Most of your damage seems to be oil pressure and heat related. I recommend that when putting it back together to use a high volume oil pump, forged "H" beam rods and forged pistons.
3: You are doing a fantastic job. Love watching you work. Keep up with the great informative videos.
A wooden rod would have helped with the pistons. I need to get one. The issue is heat and oil starvation. Oil pressure was never an issue, even at the high RPMs. Thank you! I appreciate you watching!
i would replace all bearings,,,but only after i have measured the crank at each journal and the stationary bearing position with the cap installed. Sometimes even in a line bore, the different bearing positions wind up not the same diameter. Also,,i hope you marked each bearing cap so that when you reassemble, you put them where they each came from and in the right direction.. I dont know about this engine but lotsa engine pistons have offset wrist pin holes so that at top dead center, the rod end is offset toward the intake or exhaust valve,,,,check with your piston dealer or a machine shop
Yep, that engine went lean. Rings failed. Ground up ring material went everywhere I wouldn't trust any of the oiled surfaces.
@Jay Son no you can always bore it out. need new pistons though, if you want crazier ones anyway its a opportunityl
This. The bearings look scored, and I'd be willing to be they are all damaged.
Nothing to do with going lean, running lean does not break rings
@@mactec54 true, unless it was lean enough to get hot and cook the rings, I am willing to bet it was a fuel correction by the ecu and it caused detonation in cyl8 which forced a hard rotation and broke the lands... Cyl 8 was likely on it way down thats why it tore the top ring land to pieces. All the ring material did likely damage all bearing surfaces and anything touched by oil was also touched by shredded rings.
@@Aircraft_Fabricator very hard to go lean on just ( 1 ) cylinder on an engine like this, Rings don't break up from being cooked,Detonation yes a big possibility, it did a partial seizure that's what damaged the piston, lean melts pistons and there is no melting of the piston, what caused the piston to seize is a mystery I have seen the same thing in other engines like these so it's getting to be common even from a new one, they need to take a good look at the water jacket to see if there is enough cooling around it, 2 of these engines I have seen have the same #8 seizure and ( 1 ) was #6 these are what I have seen I'm sure there are many more
Depending on what your budget is, i would consider a new preformace race engine built by a 3rd party....
Agree, your block and cylinder head needs work. Plus all the bearing surfaces had metal garbage floating in the oil. I doubt a good shop will replace just 1 sleeve, they'll suggest a complete rebuild.
What do you guys think caused the problem? Fuel too lean...or just one of those things. I'm wondering if it is a flaw that Ford really should make good on.
@@jwelchon2416 The flat plane crank design causes more secondary imbalance vibrations, due the piston traveling faster to Top Dead Center, then slower to Bottom Dead Center due to a flat plane crank and rod design. Ford's 5.2L Voodoo is dangerously risky with the much longer 93mm stroke at 8,250-rpm redline, longer and faster to than any other engine ever put into a production car.
While the standard 5.0L Coyote engine has a 92.7mm stroke at 7,000-rpm redline. This speed differential in the Voodoo is causing a LOT of failures with a speed of 84 feet per second
ua-cam.com/video/gdHQ8aTfiQQ/v-deo.html
Absolutely, just get a Roush racing engine and be done with it. Obviously Ford hasn't perfected the flat plane crank engine yet and Roush has been building race engines for at least a couple of decades.
@@Cartier_specialist yep, get a cross plane crank 5.2L and blower like the GT500. These Voodoo engines are going to keep breaking due to physics. It's just to big a stroke on a flat plane crank!
That clearance in the connecting rod is normal. The scars in the bearing were made by the metal that pass piston rings. That engine can be save. New cylinder sleeve good machine shop can fix cylinder head. Good job keep going forward.
Hi Doris, To maximize displacement, the voodoo engine block was not designed to be sleeved or over-bored. The block thickness between bores is only 6mm. Ford used a process called Plasma Transfer Wire Arc to coat the bare aluminum cylinder walls with a durable material that was tested to last over 200k miles. The coating is about the thickness of a human hair, so if you lose a piston and score the cylinder wall, Ford engineers recommend starting with a new block.
if you need a longer handle for your engine stand, take the one out of your engine hoist. That's what I have done the last few motors. slip the rubber back on the end and it will stay in there. It makes it super easy to spin even a fully dressed long block.
When I had a hypereutectic piston go in my 340, I had to get a couple of cylinders sleeved and rebored. You got lucky, you might only need one sleeved. Side note, went with forged after that fiasco.
I'd sleeve the whole block. Also I wonder how bad it dug into that 8 cylinder. Since she has it tore down I'd get some pistons and rods while she is there.
Just stumbled into this, channel, hey go for it!!!....new sub !!...at least you admit when you made a mistake, ...
that's the sign of a true Master !!
good content this coming from an
ex-dealer, master line Mechanic,...on the crank, yes have it mic-ed ..I'd even have it turned it polished...
Someone red lined this engine to often.
@Hynea Engine has a 60K mile warranty and you can buy a 7 year 100K warranty I think. This isn't a normal issue on a normal engine.
computer controls max revs so shouldnt over rev
The Redline of this engine is set well under it's capability of about 9300rpm, I bring mine to 8k pretty frequently and am on 30k miles with no issues. Most people that buy these cars and put very little miles on them only bringing them up to 6-7k occasionally end up having engine issues.
Not sure why you think that piston ring contact with the cylinder wall had anything to do with her abusing this vehicle or 'redlining' it.
You should be able to sit on limiter until the sun goes down and you run out of gas. If it fails on limiter, there's a flaw.
I have commented before, my suggestion is to price a block out compared to having 2 sleeves installed plus machine work ,I have no idea what you are doing for parts but I'd have everything checked before getting a new short blocks. Keep up the great work
The small gap between the rods is called rod side clearance. There is a speck for that clearance you should check with feeler gauges before pulling rod caps. For increased RPM use you might want to open that clearance up on a surface grinder as more clearance can allow more hot oil to escape quicker. A typical high performance side clearance might be around .015 to .017 side clearance checked with feeler gauges, the same tool you use to gap spark slugs with .
You're going to have to take that block to a machine shop you might have to get new one cylinder eight looks bad
She can get cylinder 8 sleeved at the machine shop.. Would cost less
Wow the gt350 was one of my dream cars. After seeing all the engine issues with them I'll probably be getting something else.
FORD! fix or repair daily.
I don't want to cast shade here as I could be wrong and it could well be systemic issues with the engine manufacturing - but the excessive bearing wear I'm seeing here looks like what you'd expect from an engine that hasn't been broken in properly and then pushed too hard. I don't know what the mileage she had on it before she started tuning and tracking it, but really you'd want to have at least a couple of thousand miles on the car before tracking it - personally I'd not have taken it to the track until after the first normal maintenance oil change - so 3000+ miles for an engine with the tolerances this has. I suspect a lot of the UA-camrs having issues are probably all doing the same thing - hitting the track hard after insufficient bed-in time, and hitting the engine with heavy tunes when it's still far too tight.
Hey, I bought my car brand new. I followed the manual for break in procedure. First oil change was at 500 miles and final break-in oil change was at 1k miles. All revs were kept under 4K RPM. I have many videos showing this process. Car wasn't tuned until it had about 1500 miles and then I took it to the track shortly after. This ends up being an oil starvation and heat issue. This is very common with the Gen1 voodoo's. There are many documented cases on youtube/forms/online with stock engines experiencing my same issue.
@@woman.driven I was just speculating as I haven't watched all your videos - & you can't tell much from a video anyway - I've just seen similar bearing wear at very low mileage before from people pushing engines that are still too tight too hard. I know nothing about the Voodoo engine but seems it does have some engineering flaws like so much stuff from Ford these days unfortunately.
@@woman.driven Were you able to determine the exact cause of the oil starvation? or the heat issue? If you went lean on the damaged cylinder, Do you know why? I'm learning things here. Great video as always!
REALLY YOU WORK WONDERFULL YOU READ AND FEEL THE ENGİNES 👏👏👏👏👏
Very cool series. Connecting rod clearance should be there. Should be a spec for the acceptable range and you need to check it with feeler gauge during reassembly. You also need to check your crankshaft end play as well. A dial test gauge is easiest, but you can do it with a regular dial plunger gauge. I rebuilt my daily driver a while back and have a playlist for it on my main page. It's just Quad 4 LD9, but it's all pretty much the same on the bottom end accept you have two rods per journal on some. in Part 3 I am checking the Crank End play, and Installing Pistons part 2 of 2 I check the connecting rod clearance. I don't rebuild engines any more, but I use to build racing engines when I was young and I learned from a legend (who was also a national top fuel drag champion) here in my home town.
Hello,
I Worked at an automotive machine shop for many years. I did a little looking at what you are dealing with. 5.2L Shelby Voodoo? Plasma arc coated cylinder bores.
The block will need a sleeve installed :( or be replaced. This is engine uses a new magical coating process instead of metal sleeves. The ring most likely went out the exhaust.
The crank shaft looks just fine, run your finger nail side to side on the journals to feel for scratches or have it inspected by some one at a machine shop.
The rods are Cracked powder metal, Do not mix them up! That is why they look broken...
The bearing wear is a concern, some metal debris did go through the oil. The black behind the bearings is normal.
It looks like the engine started pinging, overheated #8 the ring expanded until the gap closed and broke. Bye Bye piston and bore.
The pistons are coated with a "Solid lubricant" Moly or the like.
The black
It's a hi-compression engine 12:1 it needs Premium Plus Fuel to run.
BTW, very good job disassembling the motor, Very tidy and clean.
Also, you need to check if you can reuse the head bolts, rod bolts, main bolts. These are torque to yield. Torque to some value and then 60 degrees or what ever, This Stretches the bolt. The next time they will not be as tight and can cause a lot of problems, Head gasket leaks, etc....
All I can say is Good luck. I have rarely had any good experience trying to fix motors like this. They are touchy.
Also I see there is a lawsuit against ford about this motor.....
Armchair masters like to pick apart stuff, I suggest cracking loose all head bolts then removing them, same with intake, crank and exhaust manifolds. It is more of an issue with aluminum but really not a big deal. No order for piston rods. Just make sure they are install in the correct position and don't mix rod caps or crank caps. Your doing a great job!
*you're.
@@CK-ti6nq Yes I am a master tech.
@@biggysgroundyup.. everyone is the best like you.🙄
@@CK-ti6nq don't know how to take that but for me I share kindly when I can.
Rod movement is normal. Check the service manual for the rod spacing there will be a spec.
Yup, stick a feeler gage into the space between con rod and con rod to check if the slack is in spec.
Doll I'm a ford guy but everyone of these I see always has piston problems when you put it back together use some good after market piston the ford stock ones must be weak.
I heard ford has fixed the problem for 2020 model
@@nxxm9507 good but theirs so much better piston's out there do you agree? But it just sucks but because of warranty issues I guess you would have to wait and see on the 2020 but on hers they already denied hers and she takes good care of her cars.
All gaps in the rotating Assembly are fine there is a tolerance it needs to be set to to allow for thermal expansion metal expands as it heats! Beautiful
Hello,I checked out your video,the side to side play on your piston rods are normal,the cylinder wall where the scratches are,if the are deep to where they will catch your finger nail then you're need to get it bored over..your cylinder head,if the gashes not too deep,take them to an head shop and see can they repair and have them to check for cracks as well. My 06 gto had that same problem,had to get it bored. 030 over.but you are doing an great job,all you need is patience and you'll get it done,lol i tore my engine down and reassembled it..it takes time..don't rush it..
One disadvantage of UA-cam comments, everyone, whether they have ever worked on a car or not, can leave a comment like they have some idea of what they're talking about. Reading through the comments, this happens A LOT.
I took notes as I watched the video. So, in order:
1) The side to side play with your connecting rods is normal and needed- you don't want the connecting rods tight against the crank or each other, if they were, you would have serious friction issues and your connecting rods would burn up. When you reassemble the motor, you will find a spec for required play and you'll check this with feeler gauges, so you'll need to get some of those. You will also need some plastigauge to check the oil clearances between the bearings and the crank.
2) The wear on the rod bearings looks perfectly normal- there isn't any wear to suggest a problem with the bearings or oiling system.
3) The pieces from your piston either went past the valves and out of the exhaust, or they ended up jammed into the piston. Most likely they went out of the exhaust. If they did, there are probably pieces of piston stuck in the catalytic converter. You should remove the first cat on the driver side to check for metal on the upstream side of the cat. If there is any, remove it and then check the next cat for damage. Repeat as necessary.
4) The wear on the skirt of the #8 piston indicates a bent rod, bent wrist pin or bent piston. Be sure to have all of the rotating assembly components checked and replace any bent pieces. You can check them with feeler gauges and a piece of glass, or you can have the machine shop do it.
5) The black marks on the connecting rods and mains are completely normal. They are a result of assembly lube, burnt oil, and pressure. Nothing to worry about.
6) The main bearings look great- reusable even (but only if you know EXACTLY where they came from and the direction they were installed. You should plan to replace them anyway.
7) The crankshaft is absolutely gorgeous. I would like to hang it on my wall! You should have it cleaned and the journals polished. The machine shop will take care of this for you.
8) The "lashes" act as a hardened surface to accept the force from the springs and they are specific to the valve because they also account for differences in valve length and spring height. If you were reusing the valves and springs, you should have kept them with the specific valve/spring they came from. Since you said you're replacing the valves (not necessary, except #8 because of damage) you're going to have to set the heads up again. I would strongly recommend you let the machine shop build the heads for you. Heads are precision pieces and you'll need specialized tools to build them. Quality micrometers and calipers are not cheap and you don't have much opportunity to use them, so it's not worth the expense of purchasing them.
9) The head is damaged, but a reputable machine shop should be able to weld up the damage, re-profile the combustion chamber, and fix the valve seats. You should also have the machine shop re-cut the valve seats and properly seat the valves. This will ensure your valves seal properly and will correct any pitting on any of the existing valve seats.
10) Your block is not in bad condition and, from what I can see in the video, can absolutely be repaired. I doubt the damage is severe enough to warrant a sleeve, but if it is, a sleeve is not a bad thing. The cylinder would be bored out, a sleeve will be pressed and glued in, then it will be bored to the correct piston diameter. It is a reliable and durable fix.
11) This is a great opportunity to add more power to your motor. You can replace the cam with a more aggressive grind if you want more power. Your heads are already CNC ported, but you could polish the runners and the combustion chambers for better flow. You will also want to have the heads CC'd to ensure the combustion chambers are all the same size. You may (I don't know about our particular heads) even be able to upgrade to larger valves, since you're planning to replace the valves and doing head work anyway.
If you end up boring #8, you could bore all of the cylinders, buy new pistons and increase the displacement of your motor (Keith Black forged pistons are great, but they're also going to cost $1,000-$1,500 for a set. Or, if you wanted to get crazy, you could buy a stroker kit (crankshaft/rods) and really add some displacement. I'm not familiar with what can be done with your specific motor, the machine shop could answer these questions.
If you do increase the displacement, you may need/want to upgrade your injectors and throttle body. If you replace the cam, you will also likely need to replace the rocker arms and springs. This is one of those things that it really comes down to how much money do you want to spend.
It's not a bad idea to replace the oil pump- at a minimum, you will want to take it apart, inspect for damage/unusual wear and clearances. If anything is out of spec or overly worn, replace it. If everything looks good, it's probably fine. Oil pumps are very simple machines with just a couple of gears and possibly springs inside. They pretty much only fail due to excessive wear, and if you had adequate pressure before, it's probably fine. Edit: Some additional research on this, apparently the gears fail in these pumps, so there are aftermarket forged gears available- you should probably take advantage of the pump being out to rebuild it with the forged gears.
You could also install a dry-sump oil system, which increases power by keeping oil off of the crank (I don't remember if you already have a windage tray or not) and adds oiling reliability under hard cornering. If you're planning to race this car, a dry sump might be a good upgrade to consider. It's probably going to set you back at least $1,000 though.
Because you have a high performance engine, I suspect it's balanced and blue-printed already, so you want to make sure any parts you replace are also balanced properly. Here again, the machine shop will do this because you need special tools.
You might do some research to see if there is a mod you can do to increase coolant flow around #8. The intent being, to make #8 run a bit cooler. You might also want to run a cooler spark plug to prevent detonation.
This is also a good opportunity to check the exhaust ports, exhaust manifold gaskets and headers/exhaust manifolds, to make sure the ports are matched. Misaligned ports reduce airflow and power.
When you're building the engine, cleanliness is extremely important. Wear nitrile gloves, don't spare the assembly lube, and keep everything as clean as you possibly can.
I'm looking forward to watching the build videos. You make great videos and engines are awesome. Good luck!
B Brown - calm down Karen, it’s okay.
@@fer8888888 I've never worked on this particular engine- it was brought to my attention Ford uses a plasma transfer wire arc to build up a hardened sleeve inside of the aluminum bore. If you don't know, they spray powdered metal or atomize rod through a plasma arc to spray molten metal onto the interior of the cylinder walls. I read about it a bit, and I am by no means an expert, but from what I've read, Ford made the block about as small as they could with the cylinders as close together as possible, then use metal deposition to build up a sleeve, then they bore the built up metal to the correct diameter. The material they use has a high hardness, like Rockwell 68, to reduce friction and increase power. Supposedly, there isn't enough aluminum remaining in the block around the cylinder to bore and sleeve it, also, a sleeve would be rather soft compared with the other 7 cylinders, I imagine this could be an issue for several reason. I also don't know if the existing deposited metal is thick enough to overbore for a larger piston. This block may actually be junk because of the damage to the cylinder wall. I have found a couple of companies who rebuild journals and deck height using the same deposition method, but I haven't found any who explicitly state they rebuild cylinder walls and the ones I have found say they specialize in large diesel engines with no mention of gas engines. I saw a blog post eluding to Ford having an exchange program for this block because it's so difficult to find a place capable of respraying and boring the cylinder. A long block from ford is $20k, someone sent me a link to an aftermarket-modified bare block (with upgraded main caps and studs) for ~$5k. I also read that there is a coolant/head mod for #8 because it has inadequate cooling- apparently, this is a relatively common problem with this engine. It'll be interesting to see how this pans out. Hopefully someone watching this actually knows if this block can be repaired or exchanged, because I do not and I'm finding conflicting information with the googler.
Since you already have this thing torn down, you should go with a full set of ARP hardware
doughnutguy82 Absolutely!! Never build a performance engine without ARP!! Also would get a billet gear for the oil pump just in case... don’t want that thing to come apart bushing 600+HP
Crankshaft looks real nice . Give it the fingernail test .... Run you fingernail across the journal surface it should be perfectly smooth. If you feel ridges it will need to be checked further.
It's great your spending that much time learning about your engine. Most of working on cars is common sense. Some people think they were born with a wrench in their hand, but being a great mechanic has a lot to do with also having an intuitive and thoughtful understanding of mechanical engineering. A lot of that comes with experience. Just keep wrenching.
black on steel is generally caused by the carbon content in the steel itself. When you sharpen a knife, you get black that shows up. If you burn a stainless steel pan, you can also get black stages. Black may be showing excess heat because of failed cooling or improper tolerance clearance/abrasion.