REDGARD vs SCHLUTER
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- Опубліковано 29 сер 2024
- Waterproofing is waterproofing, if your product WORKS then the thing you use it on doesn't matter. Here I use it on normal sheetrock and wood. For 3 weeks it soaked in water and remains water tight. This is why I trust RedGard and why I continue using greenboard as my backerboard.
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My friend , you may have saved me so much money . Im a tileguy and ive been tiling since 2001 and am now a tile guy professionally . Thanks for doing the tests that i myself would and have done to ascertain the quality of a given product
I recently built a home and redguarded the entire osb subfloor to protect it from moisture during the building season. The redguarded subfloor was soaked several times by thunderstorms, sometimes the water sat on it for a couple of days. The redguard protected the subfloor like a champ and never leaked. The stuff works.
That is a great idea! I cheap out and used latex concrete bonder, takes a few coats but it’s fast.
I am even cheaper and use up polyurethane from jobs that would just go bad in the cans anyway.
Expensive though. I used it on shed doors made of wood. Then primed them and painted them. Never warped or split. Stuff is awesome
I’d have never thought to do that. 👍
That’s totally unnecessary. Osb are rated to be rained and exposed up to 6 month
Thanks for putting this together, confirmed what I always thought, that all these systems work to be waterproof when installed properly. Love your freeze test. Many years ago as a Motorola engineer, we used to call this Advanced Life Testing with temperature cycling.The tile world is basically divided into Schluter and Redgaurd opposing camps, but let me offer an argument of support for Schluter Kerdi panel boards, that no one else ever seems to mention. They are light, light, light! I have weak wrists after a sprain a few years back, and a shoulder deltoid muscle that is very weak and bothering me. Carrying Hardy Backer boards, or cement boards upstairs in condos long distances is a nightmare for me, BUT, I can carry the entire tub surround of Kerdi panels in one trip they are so light! I don't have to cement down any kerdi membrane because Kerdi panels have it on there already, all I do is use Allset on the corners with Kerdi band. Done, no 3 or 4 layers of painting the whole shower with Red Gaurd. I don't have to breath in any vapors, and cutting Hardi backer is a nightmare, especially smaller strips, and so is cutting cement board, and leaves silica dust everywhere. My method of using Kerdi boards while costing more, 3x times price of Densshield, is very fast, no mess, takes less time very little effort, no dangerous vaoprs or particles, easy to wet shim onto studs, the black graph lines are very helpful to align your tiles, no brushing on multiple coats. When we want to save money, we use Densshield and Kerdi band the corners. Bottom line, do what works for you, all these systems work. The only thing is I won't eve ruse green board because should something ever happen around it and water gets past the RedGaurd, you'll still have mold. BTW, Kerdi will fail if you don't use unmodified thinset, you can use Schluter's AllSet. Mos ttilers don't know what unmodified vs modified means, and can't read the ansi numbers on the bag, so they blame Schluter when it fails.
Thanks for the note. With Hardiebacker® cement boards, there’s no need to worry about dust generation if you cut it using shears or the score-and-snap method. You can find tips for doing this easily here: ua-cam.com/video/4LxB5fHc5Xw/v-deo.html
The system that does not depend on perfect implementation is superior. Water makes portland cement harder so cement board is ideal. If the red guard ever delaminates from the paper on a green board years from now that green board will fall apart if it gets wet.
@@JamesHardieBP I can't tell you how many times I pull out wall board that is embedded into the pan, the pan is wet and wicks up the wallboard, the mold growth will go up sometimes 16 to 18 in, and yes on hardibacker as well. I understand that is always a case of operator malfunction, but to say that a cement product is mold and mildew proof is a fallacy. I use Hardi in steam showers only because it is rigid and smooth, I would rather tile on a smoother surface.
@@StarrTile what if you apply redguard to the edge of the cement board? My plan for my tub remodel is to have it overlap the tub flange by 1/8 to 1/4 inch and waterproof the edge with redguard so that no moisture can wick. Is there a flaw with my approach?
One youtube video I came across said that he coated with redguard on his shower wall but didn't have time to tile finish it so he had been showering in there for three years without any problem, LOL!!!
cement board and red guard, with mesh, along with kerdi Fix caulking seems to be the best combo
I had a leak in one of the corners in one of my tile saw pans and I fixed it with regard.
Still holding up ?
If you're talking about just waterproofing for a full shower built the exact same way, (green board, pan liner, dry pack, etc.) it will still cost $120.00 for RedGard (two gallons for rolling out the walls two coats and three coats for seams, pan/curb, and niche/bench.) The only difference is the waterproof membrane. The cost for Kerdi membrane and a bag of thin set is also $120.00. The best benefit is no dry time between coats, and in this industry time is money. Great video btw, love experiments! 👊
I prefer to let the kerdi dry before tiling over it. If I ever have to pull a tile off a kerdi wall to adjust it the kerdi will often come off the wall with it. I'm just not comfortable with that. Whether I use roll on membrane or kerdi I let them dry.
Theres one slight difference between the two. The red stuff is waterproof.. The orange stuff is water resistant 🤣
Kerdi is more money. My customers don't wanna pay for THAT
Andrew Knapp
Your labor free? Red guard is much more Labor.
@Crunch9876 I disagree RedGard is MUCH more labor, takes a little more time perhaps but given the failures I highlight with PRO's on Schluter I'd not want to take the chance....nor I doubt would an inexperienced DIY'r which is basically why we're posting these videos to educate homeowners *not* contractors.
I have been using regard for years not only as a waterproofing membrane but also as crack isolation on LFT. I prefer regard over hydraban but I like laticrete thinset and standard grout better, these days I really try and talk people into using prism or single component grout, more cleanup and cost, but it's nice seeing work 3 years later and snow white grout is still shining like the day it was installed. I appreciate the hard work and dedication you put into your work, I love tile work and carpentry I tell everyone it's my art some people draw or paint me I build build kitchens and bathrooms that people dream about. I have 16 years in the trade and still learn new stuff from watching your videos.
We love Starr tile.
I’ll be uploading similar tests in the near future.
Thank you for all you do!
I did both my showers with Durock + Redguard (or similar product). It was very frustrating having to do 4-5 coats of the membrane because of the roughness of the cement board. When my brother did his shower, I consulted him to use Densheild. I love it. It's just like greenboard except a thicker front coating. So it is already waterproofed and is sturdy enough for heavy tile yet scores as easily as any other gypsum board. You still need to redguard, but mainly just screws and seams and maybe a single thin coat over the rest for good measure.
Agreed, I like Denshield too, hard to track down in my area and kind of pricey but it's a great product
Same here, I use denshield in every job, and seal the joints and screws with redgard or silicone and thats it
Bob is the real deal. Love his videos especially when he does a deep dive on contractors doing shoddy work. I’m sold considering I just retiled my shower and noticed how it took almost 3 coats because it was so porous. I actually covered the tub and had my daughter brush it on.
Thank you for your content. It is always interesting to watch you work.
the only potential issue i have with using sheetrock is that you are essentially depending on the paper surface to hold the tile. i use hardiebacker with redgard. yes, it is heavier and messier, but i'm thinking of getting the shears for cutting it. appreciate your videos and your willingness to share your experience-learned wisdom.
Once you apply redguard to the board. Tiles are holding to the redguard not the cement board, so if the redguard let go which it will take the same force as pealing the paper of the sheetrock. So i think sheetrock will do just as good unless you need the cement board for impact or something
Actually, the floor is supporting the weight of the tile-not the sheet rock. It's almost leaning on the wall.
Same with Schluter, they allow their membrane to be applied over regular drywall, let alone kerdi board which is FOAM.
1/2 wonderboard, kerdi ban and red guard is still a great combination every time. Although i water proof the pan and seams with kerdi membrane if it's a schluter pan.
I love redguard.
Bathroom floors around toilet and under tub areas. For the $ you can’t beat the protection
I once saw a Mapei sales rep paint the inside of a paper grocery sack with AquaDefense, then fill it up full of water. No leaks. Been using waterproofing membranes ever since. RedGuard is easier to come by in my area and works fine.
Bob, interesting to try some mild and strong cleaning chemicals on the RedGuard, same test. Maybe 10% bleach solution on one test and a different cleaner on another.
Exactly the video I was looking for! Thank you so much for posting.
Could have saved a small fortune if i saw this video before doing 2 bathrooms. No bother im going another 5 this year. Thank you so much.
Used red gard on my shower 6 years ago no leaks! Stuff is awesome
Red guard all the way, no more shingles are needed for a roof....🤣
I built my shower using YOUR methodology, Bob, from floor to ceiling, wall to wall and I must say that it was not only FAR cheaper but much more cost effective! I built an entire corner shower and used Hardie backer slathered with 4 coats of Redgard.. Cheap insurance and it did the job! One side note, I got flamed over on the "other professional tile forum" (I think we know which one) for expressing my disdain for the "industry" standard and I eluded to some of it's overkill regs. I DID NOT use a preslope and I followed Bob's example to the letter, mirroring his curb building and shower pan and I can say unequivocally that it just made too much sense!
These Kerdi, Schluter and Durock membrane systems are just slight copies of one another with subtle differences to keep the "Patent Police" off of their respective asses. I thoroughly looked at all of them and STILL the old fashioned way with a topical liquid membrane is much easier and FAR cheaper. I had a non-symmetrical shower drain with respect to the curbing so the KRB custom pan was the only other viable option but it too had an exorbitant price tag.
Do yourselves a favor and heed, or at the very least, make careful consideration of Bob's advice and you will be pleased with the outcome.
Thank you very much, Bob, for your valuable insight and concise videos! You, sir, are an invaluable asset to the DIY community!
Thank you sir for the kind words, and ya don't ever mention me on a forum unless you have a hard hat😂
When I put information out there it is up to the individual to decide for themselves, and if I thought there was a better way even if expense was an issue then I'm all up for it despite cost... but sometimes there is just not a better mousetrap only a more pricey one
Hope you donated to his pateron if he saved you $$$ 😂😂😂... He saves people thousands and headaches... GREAT JOB STARR🤙🏽🤙🏽🤙🏽
I have an older home that was built in the 90s. The original builders did not use a pre slope mud bed and I can tell both motar beds failed. I stopped using one shower months before demo because the failed motar bed and i can honestly say the motar bed was still damp months after not being used.
@@mmholling87 from the 90s, that would be pretty typical, what I find is Builders grade showers last an average of 20 to 30 years, has everything has a shelf life and so does a shower
Since I'll be using a kerdi drain, you're saying I can just use redguard over it instead of the kerdi membrane?
Excellent presentation of the test. This was helpful info. Thanks!
In my career I've used literally every type of underlayment board available here. The, and I mean THE, only one I ever had a problem with was Hardi. Even Denshield gave no problem. Pro Hardi is it's smooth. If you follow instructions, nail on marks (some being 12" apart) leave 1/8" space, mesh tape, wet with damp sponge before tile installation, you still run the risk of cracked or loose tile. My favorite was Durock, unless they have changed they were the only one UL approved for heat, sound, and moisture resistance. My standard for shower installation was 8 mil poly vapor barrier, 1/2'' Durock, and 3 coats of Red guard. Never had a fail. Never had a leak. Really enjoyed this one, and one question. Have you ever done a job where it was so hot ( new home) where you had to use ice water in your set and grout? Not fun!!! By the way, y'all think the fed shutdown is bad? Try what we are going to experience for the estimated next 14 months. ALDOT is shutting down 59/20 (20/59) coming thru to replace and redo all the bridges. GRRR!!!!
All I will say is Red Gard has never let me down , and easy to use , even when I have use it in other applications no problems , and the cost is client friendly Vs. On others its not. This is my take and very comfortable with it , I am not knocking the other products but I think for what it cost they should preform 100 % and no hiccups , Great video Sr.
Issac just made a new video where he waterproofed a mockup with kerdi and let the water sit for 7 days and it failed both times lol I used to think redgard was garbage because that's what people would tell me until i saw your cardboard box video and that opened my eyes. I still would not trust a liquid membrane as a shower pan liner because i've heard it can crack in the corners. I like to use that pvc shower pan liner on the floor and liquid waterproofing on walls, benches, niches and curbs.
more hoops and hurdles
@Matt The Builder. Issac didn't do it wrong. Schluter did approve his method. He did it as per schluter instructions. Even if you don't use kerdi band, you will still have seams that's a potential for leaks.
A full wicking shower is still the best method imo. Fat mud walls and curb and deck mud in the pan with a liner. All of these new products are nice but if you make one mistake your screwed. Felt wire and liner with a pre pan works very well and is very cost effective. Just my opinion but I do enjoy experiments. Keep up the good work. Fyi if you really ask Isaac what method he would use on every job bet it would be mud with a hot mop and pre pan if he had his choice. Hot mop is really only done in Cali these days but same as a pre pan and liner.
This is an eye opener… you are a gem. Thanks
Did our basement shower and used Redgard. Product was easy to use because it is just painting it on. I think I used 3 coats but it may have been 2 because I am Joe Homeowner. 6 years later and still perfectly dry. Red Gard will be my go-to waterproofing layer if I do this for anyone else.
I like Starr Tiles practical approach. I do think the world kind of lost its mind with waterproofing. I think people misplace waterproofing for a solution to the wrong problem. Waterproofing is mostly for keeping shower walls dry, which was never really a problem in the first place. If your shower is leaking its a mechanical error and waterproof isn't going to help you.
Agreed... I've never been on a job where the walls failed, failures are ankle below, and almost always due to operator malfunction
This is such a cool experiment. Thanks.
tbh the whole schluter leaking issue with kerdi fix really pissed me off and tainted the product in my eyes.... never mind the expense of it... if it weren't for these independent tests I'm not sure I would have questioned the marketing blurb of the product either >.
I always watch StarrTile videos on mute. I just watch the hand gesticulating out in front and end up fully understanding what was said.
As. far as I understand, you're supposed to use modified thinnest to apply Kerdi to drywall substrates, or ditra to wood subfloors. You're not supposed to use modified between Kerdi (or Ditra) and glazed porcelain, ceramic, or glass tile as the two surfaces aren't very porous and that will prevent the moisture from dissipating from between them as both surfaces can act as a barrier against airflow. You're allowed to use modified thinnest if you want, though. But if you plan on using a sealed grout, be prepared to wait for extended curing time of your thinnest. For modified thinnest to cure properly, it's required to fully dry out. If it isn't allowed to, that's why people find crumbling damp modified thinnest .behind their detaching tiles. But as far as attaching any of it to a porpous surface that will wick moisture away, like green board and wood, that's not an issue. Greenboard isn't waterproof or a moisture barrier, it is as you mentioned, treated to inhibit mold and mildew production. It's still porous. I'm using both Kerdi/Ditra and Regard in 3 different bathrooms right now in my house. Amazingly, the two can be used in conjunction with each other.
Good info, thanks
@@StarrTileNo prob. From all my research, the best waterproofing system is Laticrete's liquid membrane with their embedded fabric applied to Denshield. Though I don't know of a local supplier of either in my area which will supply it at msrp prices.
So.... my preferred methods personally is using kerdiboard due to the ease of installation as it's pretty hard to f- it up so long as you take the time to watch the installation video, and because you don't have to wait for it to dry to apply a second layer. Once you waterproof all seams and blah blah blah, you can immediately begin to tile, even before the thinnest under the kerdiband is done curing. You can waterproof and tile in one day. Regard I believe requires a full day of drying before applying the minimum required second coat. Also, cutting out tightly fitting openings in the board can be fairly simple if you use a spare board to form a template first. Just use the grid on the template and line it up with the grid along the side and top of the board, and you can get a very accurate fit around valve bodies that have collars like the Hansgrohe ibox, which I highly recommend. But because it can be cost prohibitive, the easy way to integrate a more affordable secondary method for other shower walls, like Redgard,all you need is the Kerdiband by Schluter to overlap the seam by two inches onto both the Redgard and Schluter products. For example, someone can Regard an entire shower wall surround in s wet room, and still use a Schluter Shower base if they happen to like a tillable linear drain with a tiled in glass to ceiling wall like what my brother wants me to build for him right now. All you need is to add the kerdiband around the edge of the base and up two inches on the wall where you first applied the Kerdi, and it's immediately ready to tile. That's how easy it is to transition between the two in the same space. And I simply use the $9 bag of Custom's unmodified from Home Depot for that transition. I believe most topical methods of waterproofing recommend unmodified thinnest if the product also happens to be a vapor barrier for the installation of most non-porous tile anyway. Also, Kerdiboard is foam, which helps with hiding the awkward noises from escaping thru the walls into other living spaces... y'know... the kind of noises that you'd just prefer to avoid hearing coming thru the wall of a bathroom when your houseguest or teenager or upstairs neighbor happens to be doing something unholy that might require tons of bleach, a priest and a therapist to make clean again.
I use Red on all my shower installs over green purple or cement products NEAVER had a call back in 15 years .😎
Thats because they don't have your phone number. LOL
@@DumbCarGuy lmfaooooo for real
Schluter Board is a foam board and not a gypsum product. Schluter board uses a washer on all their fastners which takes up the surface area of about 6 drywall screws (per Schluter fastner). Traditionally installed I would say the Schluter board system with proper fasteners is at least 2 times as strong as any "GYPSUM BOARD/DRYWALL" If not stronger.
But the issue here is not the sheer strength of the product it is the longevity of the product. Any water resistant drywall that is going in a shower has to have a fiber glass tape applied to all inside corners and seams then coated with redguard.
If you use cement board not only do you have a much much stronger sturdier product, the product itself is waterproof. You can tape seams and inside corners and do a single coat of red guard. Even if you skip red guard and just had concrete board it would still last longer then the drywall with redguard because concrete board does not break down the same way drywall does. There is a reason why they make concrete board and why it is ideal for showers..
Even with a waterproof membrane theoretically the drywall can always potentially sag as it is a paper faced product its not very strong and every door slamming or someone falling into the shower wall could potentially weaken it over time as it would send a vibration through the studs.
All my houses in my neighbourhood were done with greenboard in the 70s and in 10 years everyone had to replace there bathrooms because the tile was falling off.. 2019 Greenboard is still code as shower/bathtub backer even without memebrane...
You are incorrect that cement board is waterproof, that is so so so not true...but check this out ua-cam.com/video/Jxi-iSh-6A0/v-deo.html
I think the reason redguard showers might fail is if the trowel was to score the redguard. With kerdi, the membrane is made of fiber so tearing a few might not completely kill it.
If you're troweling thinset THAT firmly then you're doing it wrong.
Care is taken in every step.
And I've used kerdi before that I've torn just trying to push out excess thinset....just saying
Great test...im a red guard fan. Peace of mind for sure
I have been contracting for 41 years and I use hardi backer board and Red Gard. The method shown above will work..... IF...... Done properly. I have seen green board that has degraded when I have demolitioned bathrooms. I have seen Hardie backer board that had been graded over and buried in the dirt for years and it looked just as good as new. Inevitably, some clown will probably see this video and use this as a shower pan base 😂
I'm doing a shower now. What do you recommend for the seems of the HardiBacker prior to RedGaurd waterproofing? Can you use the 20 minute mix for drywall seems?
Homertalk I use 20 minute mud because time set mud becomes water resistant. Drywall tape in the corners and mesh tape on the flats.
I had my shower pan fail. Redguard present. Seemed like a pretty thin layer but I'm just a DIY guy. I'm guessing (not the original owner) the install lasted about 10 years. I think it was more failing grout and a weak tie in with the schluter drain that didn't endure my kids filling up the shower pan by stuffing the drain with wash cloths. I replaced it with Kerdi and epoxy grout so I'll report back in 10 years. If anyone can damage the shower I think my kids can do it.
you should do a video on condensation on durock/hardie w/ red-g to show how water wicks with outdoor temps & inside shower temps ?
Great job
I waterproofed a piece of cardstock paper folded like a showerpan with Tec's yellow waterproofing and it held water.
Reminds me of bedliner. That shit makes things damn near indestructible. I've seen cinder block walls treated with spray on bedliner survive explosions, and watermelons and eggs survive drops from a 144 ft tower.
Interesting!
I was thinking.... "This guy looks familiar."
Hey commenting on a different video that you have the comments turned off on. I totally agree with you about the kerdi schluter. But I think the easiest and most cost-effective approach to that situation instead of trying to get that off or cover it up I would just tear out and put in new plywood as well.
Great video! I’m tiling a tub surround in new construction. I’d like to put RedGuard over the drywall. How do you feel about using Bondura Tile Mat Set over that, to apply the tiles? Thank you.
Very cool video. Been looking for a crack prevention membrane for a half bathroom I'm planning on tiling. Was leaning towards using ditra but this video convinced me that redgard should be just fine. Liked and subbed.
A liquid topical membrane is not a crack prevention method for a floor, that's what ditra, durock, wonderboard, hardiebacker, all of those materials are for your floor, then if you wanted to put some redgard on top of that then by all means
@@StarrTile thank you for correcting me. I will be installing ditra then.
As long as you do not make a mistakes during coating and installation or someone else does after the fact ( improperly installing a shower door or otherwise creating a penetration) then greenboard will work fine. However if you do ever have some water make its way to green boards interior it will quickly wick up and soften the board often to the point of failure. Cement board particularly the USG brand will soak it up without serious loss of integrity, also unless you water proof both sides or run plastic sheeting (hello 1970s) on the studs the backside of the board will allow for evaporation of small amounts of water pretty quickly....Of course (as you mentioned) if you have embedded the board in the mud in the receptor and it gets soaked (as can happen with a fractured wall tile to floor tile joint when you do not use sanded caulk)
I agree with you that working with cement board is a pain but IMO it is the best material when installed properly....but I have not done nearly as many showers as you so who knows I may try some in the future.
Not only green board but just normal sheetrock with 4x4 ceramic tile and unsanded grout was used in showers for decades from the late seventies into the 90s, I have taken showers out like that that are 30 plus years old and the sheetrock is not ruined, not even soft, sometimes the back of it might have some mold due to the fact they put a too close to the pan but otherwise it's pretty much pristine 30 years later so your take on using it in a shower without waterproofing is not really true.
(The 100 Year Shower)
Go look at that video which I put out there as proof positive to what I say.
The Achilles heel with any shower build is operator malfunction, it is real and it is why I have so many failure videos on my channel, so anything is possible I suppose
If you regard the bottom 6 inches of the boards prior to install then the cement boards will not absorb the water
Gypsum is OK but cement is better, cement bonds to cement (thinset to cement).
If you redguard the cement board then you’re not bonding cement to cement. You’re bonding cement to redguard
Derek and that’s not rocket science to understand that but it still went over his head lol
So many layers needed on cement board to get rid of pin holes. Looks like I should have just used green board. The tile is still good after 6 years, but I know I didn't get all the holes... I used a modified thinset and no-seal grout as well though. I would like to know how Redguard does with horse hair plaster though. Any takers?
Well, what is not being spoken about? The red guard will not put a lifetime warranty on your shower! Schluter will if installed as prescribed. I went through both of there 2-day training. The topic is so much bigger than some cardboard box and red guard. With Schluter thin set I could coat the inside of a cardboard box and have no leaks either and tests have proven this as fact. A Vw has 4 wheels, doors, and windows but so does much higher class vehicles. And the price is very relevant. I have used the Red guard for years and it is good. Schluter is a complete system and red guard is not. How many showers have I ripped out with the red guard and found wet wood rot and leaks? To many. Remember Schluter is the complete system that puts complete warranty on your shower for leaks if installed per instructions. How many curbs tile are falling off due to rotting wood. How many walls tile falling off due to rot. The proof is in the years down the road proof. Schluter customer support is rock solid. If you ever get a chance to take the class and get educated with new information then decide how to proceed. How many showers have you're pulled out the walls and mold and moisture is there? Have you ever wondered why? Take Schluter's classes and you will learn why.
Honestly people do not need a lifetime warranty on a shower, the average homeowner is in it about 12 years, the average shower last about 20 at a Builders grade level, I have run into many that have lasted 30 plus years on a builder's grade level and by that point people are renovating anyway.. but for the purposes of this video I basically I'm saying that walls are not as important as a shower pan area, my walls are never falling apart because they were not waterproof
"To make a claim under this Limited Warranty, the Owner must provide Schluter-Systems with written notice within
30 days of any alleged defect in the Products covered by this Limited Warranty, together with date and proof of purchase of the Products, proof of the costs of the original installation and name and address of all installers, failing which this Limited Warranty shall be of no legal effect". I would think it is rare to catch a failure within 30 days of noticing it. Would be interested to hear about successful warranty claims. Don't get me wrong, the Schluter products and warranties are great. But a shower just needs to be done right in the first place or there will be pain on the homeowner and installer regardless of warranty.
Redguard does offer a lifetime warranty. Try again.
@@apex007 Ok, And exactly what are they paying for if their product fails.
@@1stFlyingeagle read it for yourself. images.homedepot-static.com/catalog/pdfImages/6a/6a1d9518-ddb5-4062-8345-848fb4b4df5d.pdf
Are you able to paint or spray paint over that redgard stuff after its fully dry and everything?
The problem with only using greenboard and you if you are using a smaller tile, there will be flex in the wall between the studs! I would use a kerdi or one of the other products that you prefer using over the greenboard for a more solid installation.
Actually that is incorrect, one of the reasons I use green board is because it is rigid, put wonderboard or durock between studs and push...it gives a lot
I really like more redgard is little more work but it's more protection
God damn it bob, where was this video a month ago before I spent a shit ton on kerdi stuff
😂😂😂😂
Another great video, thanks
Thanks for all your videos Star tile man
Also kerdi is waterproof backed by lifetime warrantee when applied properly to appropriate materials. Aka Schluter products. Very expensive. But when you can build your shower and tile it in one day, pricing/ profit offset is quite ideal.
Jim Roberts lol I don’t believe anyone can build a tile shower with a tile floor in it in one day. No freaking way...
Top Notch point still stands. You can’t do a tile shower in one day
Gonna paint my car with this stuff
Thank you. You are so helpful.
Point made. Not the first time either. I use Hydroban...spreads a bit easier in my opinion. Works the same. Always waterproof and bone dry.
Come to think of it, I shoulda dipped the tip of Jr....would’ve saved me all those support payments. ;)
That’s a pretty funny reply. Odd that you couldn’t sense the humor in my post.
I think the problem stems more from idiots that push their stupidly on everyone else.
Either way, redgaurd and the other topical membrains do work. You should try it.
@@politicalpartyagnostic268 it was a joke. The idea of covering his penis with regard was a joke.
Pay Moderate Man no mind....He probably voted for Hillary. 🤦♂️
@@politicalpartyagnostic268 everything is about money nigga
Great video. Love you test and the time you did to do it. Getting ready to do a new build shower 3 ft X 6 ft. So what is the correct steps to do it right one time.Thank You
Wanted to mention I just have the studs in at this point and ready for wall board . Was think of using 1/2" Herdieboard. Don't mind the cutting out side but very interesting with Green Board which is what I have around the shower area right nowf
I would not think the waterproof aspect is an issue. Surely redguard exists cuz it works. I would wonder about weight of tile and such on paper instead of concrete board. I am definitely going to use redguard but not sure about the backer..
The weight of the tile is a non-issue, gravity doesn't work that way when you are sticking tile to a wall, there's not a downward pull after thinset has dried over the redgard. I've personally been using it for 8 years without one single negative incident
@@StarrTile thank you for the reply.
So I use green board also but I seal the board all the way to the liner and using mesh tape and silicone I seal the bottom of the green board. Then on top of the pan I mesh tape and silicone and red guard the whole shower pan. If water was to penetrate it would only seep to the top of the pan witch is protecting and pitched to the drain.
Do you tape the seams and corners of the board with mesh tape and then mortar the corners, seams, and screw holes first or do you use mesh tape then redgard first and then just tile? Does it matter?
a,èkññ ñbsolutely if you dont tape corners you have 2 walls that can flex or move potentially different It will make the grout corner crack
I use Marmox boards with Kerdi tape and kerdi col , bomb proof and added benefit of hanging some heavy ass tiles on it 👌🏻
100% on board with what you’re doing. I’d like to know, however, where you get enough redguard to do a shower for $52. I’ve never seen it that cheap.
$47.00 at Home Depot per gallon.
Because like u said it desent matter what u use so since thier is no chemical the vest thing is to red guard if u do that also it. Eeds to be ree forced all corners with a red guard tape
This was a very interesting video. Now I'm trying to think of other places I can use Redgard. I'm also doing a shower. I'm using a foam curb and the newer Hardi waterproof board. It's not much more than the regular Hardi and I only need a few sheets. My question is how large of a gap will Red Gard fill and waterproof? Also, can I use Red Gard where the curb meets the shower pan? Thanks
Found that using a cement/fiberglass blade on a jig saw to be super effective for cutting Hardie. Low dust factor. Just cut 18 4x8 sheets today. Min dust. Just cracked a window. Power shears also work nice.
Just saying.
Hi Starr Tile, are you saying "Green Board"? Is this what you recommend over durorock?
I don't recommend anything, I just have a preference in my preference is always going to be green board
Cut a piece of green board and leave it outside. 28 yrs of working with it.
Have some out back, wish I could post a pic. Mold everywhere. Plus only the paper face is waterproof , still a lie, its not and will still grow mold. Any cut you make leaves exposed gypsum that loves to suck up water better than Downy the quicker picker upper.
I don't know why you think I am unaware of that, I've been doing some type of home repair since 1985 and everything you said I already know except the lie part, don't be Trump !
Anyting that you waterproof is impervious to water, most boats are made out of wood and they have a resin that makes them waterproof, in that same light Schluter has ditra and applied over drywall which they recommend, waterproof, in that same light a topical liquid membrane makes anything you apply it to waterproof, enough said... you assume there will be a perforation which will allow water to get in, I don't
The thing I really dislike about Schluter and the like is the cult like mentality around it. As if they reinvented the wheel and if you don’t subscribe, then you’re doing it wrong. I’ve always used hardi or durock and a liquid membrane and never had an issue with leaks or loose tiles.
Schluter Kerdi fails from poor installation and using thinset to seal the joints in the membrane. Thinset is not a water proof or water resistant sealant.
Durock or hardybacker, which is better in your opinion?
Can you red guard the drywall next to the tub, then texture the wall with orange peel before painting? I always see the drywall deteriorated around that area from water contact.
i cut my boat in half and put it back together with redgard. during testing i pulled anothr boater out of the water who was testing with flex seal. phill swift was not a good swimmR
I have taken showers apart where there was a dry pack pan over a rubber membrane that was saturated with water that was trapped in the cement. I always recommend to my customers to waterproof any type of shower set up.
This should come as no surprise. Grout joints in floor allow water to reach the mud pan, so the pan is going to constantly be saturated if it's used on a daily basis. This is normal and expected with a rubber liner.......there is absolutely nothing wrong with that method either.
I have been making mud pans no for several years with no rubber liner. I've exclusively used Redgard over my cured mud pans. To me, this method is superior and it's easier to achieve crisp corners where the walls and curb meet the pan.
So houses are built with wood and plywood which shifts and naturally moves also with moisture and depending on location...right? So what happens when your green board with redguard moves a little bit? It’s going to crack then water penetrate which has been shown to happen in many videos even on new houses less then a year old.. Some states have ground movement... this is completely disregarded in this video.. I’m just trying to learn of course I trust redguard in my showers but there’s a reason why there’s more to explore in this business..
Never seen Redgard crack..it's rubber and stretches more than any other materials in your home.
Applications where it's ridiculously thick there's cracking but you can't fix operator malfunction.
Hi, quick question. How long does it take for the odor to dissipate? I have to do my basement bathroom and it's a DIY so any tips on this regard will be appreciated. Thank you🤗
Best if I could offer is get a good respirator, if you have a window let a fan run out of it oh, that usually takes a good part of a day for the odor to dissipate
How will redguard hold up if there is movement. like earthquake heavy areas? I use Schluter Kerdi band on all my corners and then Redguard the seams.
It's also uses as a crack prevention membrane so it should work very well. it's very stretchy stuff.
Well, where I've always seen failure is in corners when using a product like this. Floors move separately from walls so that corner over time can crack unless you have a solid frame around the perimeter of your shower floor, so it can't move. The slightest movement over years of you in and out using that shower could lead to cracking if that floor is moving, so I always use a rubber pan, why take the chance. The cost of a repair costs way more then the initial cost in my view.
What you said about constant movement in houses is absolutely correct, every material you have in a house will expand and contract and even separate, however redgard is basically liquid rubber and I could take a sheet of it and pull it probably three quarters of an inch before it ever ripped, in fact if you look at the label is a crack prevention membrane as well as a waterproofer , you cannot do that same test with any Kerdi Schluter product
@@StarrTile What you say is true about this product and the same logic also applies to Blueskin which is use for sealing foundations. Applications of these types of material do stretch quite a bit when on a surface but not when it's sandwiched between 2 other materials that don't stretch. In the case of the shower you would only get the small bead in the corner having leg room to stretch and the material between tile and concrete or tile and wall will not benefit from this freedom to stretch. You can try this experiment your self by applying this product to 2 pcs of drywall touching but not connected together, then tile them both. You will see you don't get much stretch. I'm not implying that this product is not good, It's just over time, maybe months or years, it may crack. I just don't see using just Redgard when there are other ways to improve, use 2 systems together for a greater assurance, a rubber pan to protect floor and Redgard to protect walls. Bathrooms are expensive and to have not done all you can to prevent leaks is in my view, a mistake.
If it works for you, so be it. Paper backed gypsum wasn't intended to hold the weight of thin-set and tile plus the butt joints are permeable. Good luck to your clients. I'll use Kerdi or Go Board with Hydro Ban waterproofing and sleep well.
I've slept very well since 1998...
Not one failure, not one call back 👌✌💪
If both products combined do you think will work?
So, if I buy a shower base, then where should the durock go? The manufacturer says that the shower base should go up against the studs.
Silcon between the tub flange and the rock keeps the water away. Im not a fan of kerdi and redguard all my jobs. Kerdi is expensive and doesnt work as good imo as redguard.
Hey Bob. Would it be possible to red guard over green board with kilz primer applied over the joint compound, or would it be best to red guard directly over the joint compound without primer?
I use redgard on green board of my showers nearly every job I do and I do not use a primer I just put the mud in all the seams
@@StarrTile any special mud you use or just regular premix?
@@alejandroespino1998 doesn't really matter what mud you're going to use, everything behind it will be waterproof anyway
Do you install the Durock rough side or smooth side facing tile? The board states rough for cement and smooth for mastic.
Those instructions would be correct if it were not for the fact that we are waterproofing the wallboard which makes the smooth side facing out a much much better surface for the waterproofer
@@StarrTile Thanks so much. One additional question. What do you use to adhere the tile to the redgard waterproofer.
@@honestabe7349 thinset
Great video! First video i see if yours and very informative.
Is it possible to get the best of both worlds and use Kerdi pre sloped shower base and redgard over it and on the walls ?
yes that could work , I'm just not on board with foam or plastic in showers that I build
I use waterproof silicone on all my shower corners and then I apply Redguard
I redguard first then silicone the corners, The regard doesnt stick to the silicone but the silicone will stick to the reguard.
I’m pretty sure that’s moisture penetration on the Sheetrock after you peeled the redgard off.
Nope
Greetings. I have watched all the install videos and yours seems to reflect my conclusion with respect to all the various methods of waterproofing. Especially when you consider the costs associated. There seems to be a consensus that the more expensive the process the better most seem to like it! My only question is the use of a notched trowel over the Red Guard membrane. Does anyone know if the metal trowel will cause possible punctures?
It's super tough, you could puncture it if you jab the edge of your trowel in really hard, but otherwise regular/ fast spreading isn't an issue.
I use dendsield with red guard … 2in 1 bond and sealer… boom
Im 52 yrs young and been in the tile business since high school. Never had a shower failure. You keep mentioning PDF on material, why in the heck do you refuse to use the fabric in corners????? I heard you bring up the cardboard deal well that was a Laticrete Aqua ban demo/prop 7.8 yrs ago. In that cardboard box, WAS FABRIC!!!!!! Just as Custom had to tell you, dont advertise putting our product on Gypsum, Dont instruct people to not use fabric. If you were brought up that way and you like it, go head. But dont tell others to do the wrong thing. People do as he says.... read the instructions and you will see, MUST USE FABRIC to be waterproof IN CORNERS
I never suggest to anybody that they do it my way, everybody has a freedom to do as they like, read the instructions, pick things apart to the letter of the law if they prefer, however I use common sense, Common Sense dictates that tape is a crack prevention membrane for sheetrock for example and if you're already using a crack prevention membrane which is what a liquid topical membrane is first and foremost, then it's illogical to use a mesh tape because it's redundant, not saying it cannot be done, I have done in the past but what I have found out is the tape causes a larger Gap in a corner and requires more coats of the Redguard then it would without the tape , that is my explanation for the use of this product, as I said anybody is free to do it their way as long as it works, My Method has worked for over 20 years despite and regardless what custom Building Products chimed in to say. There is a UA-camr by the name of Isaac Ostrom, he followed the letters to the exact detail on their product when he did a mock up, the product failed miserably in his demo, mostly because he followed instructions 😂
@@StarrTile Alls good. However the fabric is not needed on flat surface. its onhly needed in elevation changes. Its like epoxy has a part A and a part B. Both are needed to achieve correct outcome. There will be no leak if fabric is used. If wall moves and floor doesnt, the fabric is a BUFFER for the movement, kinda like backer board to a wood substrate on a floor. People are brought up in the industry different. Just like using Drywall in a shower, im sorry Green board. Its just not done. Good luck to you sir
@@larryarnold4299 well I appreciate your opinion, it's not based in fact, I have done experiments to that point and all the points that you make. But we can agree to disagree, and I don't need luck because I have skill and Common Sense 👌
Dumb question. Can Redgard be used directly on plywood? Reason I ask is because i need to redo the main floor decking of my 21-ft boat. Typically the plywood is coated with fiberglass resin on both sides, an then put into place. I'm wondering if a waterproofer like Redgard could be used instead. Especially since it's a crack sealer too.
Thanks in advance.
At one time I had an inflatable boat, I used plywood for the hull because it was more rigid, coated it with redgard and it worked fine
@@StarrTile Awesome! Thanks for the reply.
If I have a tub with a nailing flange. Do I put the cement board “or whatever wall board I am using” inside the flange down to the top of the tub, or do I not overlap the flange with wall board, only meet up with it. And then have my tile go down past the flange and meet the tub. I hear different answers and always wonder about this as a diy home owner
So if you watch this video it will answer your question
ua-cam.com/video/ZVfEiHCD6CE/v-deo.html
This would work fine for a tub surround. However the real problem comes from the vapour which red guard is not vapour proof. Also, do you really want to be breathing in a shower full of red guard?
Mike Hobson Red Guard is listed you be a vapor barrier at one coat. It is a waterproof membrane at two coats and a crack resistant membrane at only one coat. So if you out at least 2-3 coats, you get all three benefits.
do you ever run into a warm wall that draws condensation on a cold exterior wall? Any advice on how to prevent the moisture?
insulation...
What board? Grain board? Where do you buy it?