Is Horse Riding Cruel? Vegan? (Rethinking the Debate That Just Won't Die)
Вставка
- Опубліковано 28 чер 2024
- Is horse riding cruel? Do horses like to be ridden? Can vegans ride horses? The answers may surprise you! The ethics of horse riding remains an extremely controversial and divisive topic. This video covers arguments for and against horse riding, the ongoing debates between horse riding schools and methods, whether horse riding hurts horses, the harm of horse riding tack, whether horse riding is vegan, and more. It goes beyond the questions of "is horse riding cruel" and "is horse riding vegan" for a deeper exploration of the ethics of horse use.
_____________________
✧ Subscribe ✧
• Newsletter (+ get a free eBook 📗): bitesizevegan.org/subscribe/
• Telegram: t.me/BiteSizeVegan
• UA-cam: bit.ly/BiteSizeSubscribe
✧ The article with all the sources for this video (& additional info): bitesizevegan.org/is-horse-ri...
_____________________
Content mentioned in this video:
• The Horse Riding Ethics Series
- UA-cam: • Horse Riding Ethics Se...
- Website: bitesizevegan.org/series/hors...
• My Interview with Ren Hurst
- UA-cam: • Learning to Love Horse...
- Website: bitesizevegan.org/learning-to...
• More About Bits
- UA-cam: • Horse Riding Cruelty: ...
- Website: bitesizevegan.org/horse-ridin...
• Horse Racing
- UA-cam: • Horse Racing Exposed: ...
- Website: bitesizevegan.org/horse-racin...
• The Leather Industry
- UA-cam: • Is Leather a Byproduct...
- Website: bitesizevegan.org/is-leather-...
• Backyard Chickens
- UA-cam: • Can Vegans Eat Eggs Fr...
- Website: bitesizevegan.org/can-vegans-...
_____________________
Find what you're looking for:
🔎 Not sure what you need? Try the Guided Search: bitesizevegan.org/guided-search/
📚 Browse all content: bitesizevegan.org/browse-all-...
💡 Search by topic: bitesizevegan.org/topics/
🎓 Free eCourses: bitesizevegan.org/ecourses/
_____________________
Get notified about new content:
🎉 Best way to get notified every time? Follow on Telegram: t.me/BiteSizeVegan
💌 Get email notifications by joining the newsletter: bitesizevegan.org/subscribe/
🔔 Not getting notified on UA-cam? See: support.google.com/youtube/an... (PLEASE NOTE: UA-cam NO LONGER SENDS EMAILS ABOUT NEW VIDEOS. For more reliable notifications, subscribe to my newsletter or follow on Telegram: bitesizevegan.org/subscribe/ )
_____________________
This Bite Size Vegan video: Is horse riding cruel? Do horses like to be ridden? Can vegans ride horses? The answers may surprise you! The ethics of horse riding remains an extremely controversial and divisive topic.
_____________________
Bite Size Vegan content is and will always remain free for all! If you find my work valuable & want to help me provide free educational content, please see these support links:
❥ DONATE: bitesizevegan.org/support/
❥ PATREON: / bitesizevegan
All donations go to Bite Size Vegan, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.
_____________________
💬✏️Translate this video (captions): amara.org/videos/pltHbxonRmTT
_____________________
Chapters:
00:00 Introduction
00:42 We're asking the wrong question
00:47 Are horses meant to be ridden?
01:49 Arguments in defense of horse riding
01:54 Is horse riding good exercise for horses?
02:35 Does riding provide horses with an enriched environment & stimulation?
03:09 Do horses like to be ridden?
04:52 Does horse riding create an emotional bond?
06:03 Arguments against horse riding
07:08 Does horse riding hurt horses physically?
07:37 A question for riders
08:53 The harm of horse riding tack
09:14 Saddles (harm of tack)
09:52 Bits & bridles (harm of tack)
10:29 Whips & crops
11:07 New findings on horse pain perception
11:49 Human whipping test
12:22 Skeletal, muscle, & tissue damage from riding
13:36 Note on research process & efforts at justification
14:13 Summation of "Does horse riding hurt horses?"
14:27 The incremental negotiation of exploitation
15:49 Is horse riding vegan?
16:59 A final question for riders
17:32 In closing & your thoughts?
#vegan #horseriding #horses #horse
Bite Size Vegan aims to serve as an “entry point” for non-vegans to explore veganism in an approachable, non-threatening environment-distilling down complex concepts into accessible formats while providing cited sources for total transparency.
By taking on the ample time requirements of researching the myriad of issues inherent within & surrounding veganism, as well as sorting through the ever-growing mountains of information, Emily Moran Barwick aims to increase both the accessibility of veganism for non-vegans, & the efficiency & effectiveness of current vegans’ activism. - Домашні улюбленці та дикі тварини
🐴 *Please share this video with anyone who loves horses.* This has taken hundreds of hours and a great deal of reflection to produce. It is my hope that this video (& article) will serve as a lasting resource and encourage a profound examination of the ethical implications surrounding the exploitation of *_all sentient beings._* All sources & further info on the article: bitesizevegan.org/is-horse-riding-cruel-is-it-vegan/
*Get notified about new Bite Size Vegan content:*
🎉 Best way to get notified every time? Follow on Telegram: BiteSizeVegan.org/Telegram
💌 Get email notifications by joining the newsletter: bitesizevegan.org/subscribe/
🔔 Not getting notified on UA-cam? See: support.google.com/youtube/answer/7391308 ( *PLEASE NOTE* - UA-cam *_NO LONGER SENDS EMAILS ABOUT NEW VIDEOS_* - even though that article says they do! *_SO, for more reliable notifications, please subscribe to my newsletter or follow on Telegram:_* bitesizevegan.org/subscribe/ )
✧ Help support more educational content: bitesizevegan.org/support/
📗Get your free guide to going vegan: bitesizevegan.org/get-started/go-vegan/
Just this statement "Let’s pause for a moment to consider that we’re now debating the proper way to whip a being we love."... Great article, Emily!
Excellent updated video on this issue! SHARING.....
@@LouisGedo Thank you SO much for sharing!
@@anotheruser3898 That's one of my favorite lines in the video..at least the delivery of it :) And thank you!
Might I make a humble suggestion? Your videos are so articulate comprehensive and an incredible work citing all kinds of important documents and reports etc., that I share them with everyone. One of the things that I hear back from non-Vegans is that they are immediately set off/triggered by the title which usually has the word vegan in it. Such as the ones for honey and of course the ones for horseback riding. Just my two cents my friend.
As always a beautiful insightful and comprehensive report. Thank you so much.
A horse was abandoned in a field behind my house when I was a kid. Horses were my favorite animal. He and I had a very deep bond, my parents said he was my best friend. Because I spent time with him every day, me on the ground, him not being used by me. He even saved me from bullies once, I ran into his pasture and the boys followed me, the horse chased them up his apple tree and a nearby neighbor adult had to help them escape.
Don't change.😊
Just this statement "Let’s pause for a moment to consider that we’re now debating the proper way to whip a being we love."... Great article, Emily!
Thank you so much, Another User :) Yes, that little snarky break is one of my favorite moments in the video... Just had to put that in there amidst all the facts and findings and whatever...felt that we needed to just pause and get real for a second :D
The proper way is the other being can verbally and clearly consent. Shoutout to my kink community.
Yes. This was perfect! You are clearly very intelligent and an academic. It is a hard for me to follow along the whole video as you are talking quite quickly. It would be awesome if you could „dumb it down“ a bit for more people like me who genuinely want to learn about this but are not as academic as you. And I admire you. #veganforever
Even back when I rode horses, I never understood the use of a whip. I never used one and always saw its use as cruel.
We're humans. We won the evolutionary race because we be the best Apex preadator. This discussion of horse riding!?. You couldent have it if your for father's diden't kill every thing in his path.
Thank you for making another video on this topic. In the last few years I've seen far too many videos about supposed horse rescues that always go from: "Oh look, we're rescuing this poor, highly abused being and giving him/her a good life!" to "...and now we can _finally_ use him/her as a vehicle! Yay!" 🤦♂ There are even videos where the horses have PTSD _specifically_ due to being used as vehicles, and yet they _still_ break that being's spirit after months of finally being "free" for once in their life and betray him/her by riding them again.
*It's abhorrent,* incredibly frustrating and absolutely insane how anyone can truly believe that they are rescuing horses when they in fact use them for riding and even sell them for that purpose as well, yet they still get the legal status of a rescue organization. It's so disturbing that I've come to the point of not watching horse rescue videos anymore, specially on the dodo, because 99% of the time they promote using them as vehicles.
Ultimately there are very few species that are "meant to" be ridden and that is only by their own babies, during a certain period of time; such as Koalas, Kangaroos, Sloths, primates, Megabats, some bear species, etc. So it should be as simple as "Are you a baby (insert one of those species)? No? Then use a motor vehicle."
I wasn't sure at first where you were going with "there are very few species that are "meant to" be ridden"... was a little nervous, but then continued and was delighted. I'd never thought about that...being meant to be ridden by their babies :) Appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts on this topic!
I am extremely frustrated with the portrayal of horse rescuing on the dodo as well.
I grew up riding horses. I was on a horse before i could walk. My best friend growing up was my horse. I rode almost daily. We used the most gentle bits and tack and i was very considerate of my horse. That being said i didn't question it much but i was disgusted by the way other people treated their horses. They were, in my opinion, horribly cruel. I became vegetarian when i was 12 back in 1975 and have been vegan for many years now. I dont think there is ever an ethical way to use animals because humans just can't be trusted with the care of someone who is vulnerable and completely at their mercy
Thank you for sharing, Ellen. And yes, there is no ethical way to USE anyone. That's the issue in and of itself-USING them. Appreciate your sharing!
Whoever said/says nonhuman animals exist to serve humans was/is human, and was/is self-serving.
All animal use is abuse. I'm loving this _post-cruelty-and-suffering_ phase. Thank you so much, Emily!!
Thank you, Julià Arcau! I'm glad that you resonate with the "post-cruelty-and-suffering" focus. I've always been VERY focused on the whole "humane myth" being such a dangerous trap for everyone (activists, vegans, non-vegans, and of course the animals!) But in recent years, this has extended more and more to the way we even discuss the ethics of exploitation and use...venturing even into domestication itself. It is a shift of perspective, and an important one I think!
@@BiteSizeVegan Yes, I understand what you are pointing out. It's kind of re-framing what veganism, respect, justice and other commonly used words mean. It's not about compassion. It's about personhood, will and individuality recognition in oneself and others. Other animals are not «objects with life», but «subjects of a life».
Traces of welfarism will be left behind us!! We sentient beings share basic and fundamental interests, and there's no logical reason to consider and treat these same interests differently just because of 'species' or any other irrelevant concept or attribute. Animal (individual) Rights are here to recognize and protect these interests. The first of them all to be granted: the right not to be property. Because if one is a property, has no rights, but conditions of exploitation.
I'm excited that you are excited. So much love, Emily 🍀🙏🏻🌺
Agreed.
Bullshit and delusional. You cannot even stop abusing your fellow humans how do you want to stop abusing the animals which litteraly built this world?
Veganism is schizophrenia.
I was a horsewoman my whole life. I stopped riding 6 years ago. Each horse slowly opened my eyes. Science shows cows are built more for carrying weight. From a small child I wanted to be with horse. BUT I wanted to have a true relationship with them a spiritual relationship where I could learn from them. Forcing them to learn what us humans want from them did not help me get that. I achieved the true relationship when I learned to truly listen to them and not justify why I am on their backs. Read the book by Ren Hurst, Riding on the power of others. Humans take advantage of and exploit the true giving nature of horses. There are those who say they love horses but in all actuality it's that they love RIDING horses. I rescued abused horses for a long time. Horse ridden by people who profess to love them. I just put one down 2 months ago that was a throw away. He became lame by the constant need to be exercised as a roping horse. The lady wanted nothing more to do with him so I took him in for almost 5 years. I have many stories about listening to what the horse really has to say and it ripped my heart out. There is a big movement in the UK about this very thing.
Thank you so much for sharing your journey, Denice. Until I interviewed Ren Hurst (and had had much passionate feedback on my original video) I had NO idea the intensity of the horse riding world. It was very eye-opening! It really opened in me a deeper examination of the exploitation of domestication...something that I think is VERY challenging for anyone to confront-vegans very much included. I really appreciate you taking the time to share your experience!
Yes, I also was a "passionate horseperson". I wrote about my experience of taking in horses destined for the killers for being sub par racers. I did, as a kid, steal an abused pony once, But the cops when called by the people I took him from, showed up and saw him they went to the people and told them that I had rescued their pony, and they should count themselves lucky that he doesn't arrest them for abuse. I always wished he had arrested him. That pony had to euthanized a bit later because he had foundered so badly, and back then we didn't have the things they do now to help them live without that pain. He couldn't even get up any more. Makes me cry to this day, some 45-50 years later. I wish I had stolen him sooner.
Thank you for your passion. It's you young people who are making a difference. Just how much the woman has been domesticated. We time for the wild woman to rise again!
This video was very insightful for me. I don't ride, but I used to volunteer at an equine therapy program so I have knowledge of riding and training horses. After watching this and really considering the circumstances of those horses I look back at that experience and feel great sadness for them and shame at myself for being involved in their exploitation. They lived to be used.
Thank you so much for sharing this, Taylor. I'm honored to hear that you found this to be insightful. I do think it is challenging to really confront the "less obvious" ways in which we use other beings. It can be painful for sure, but is also vital for us to do.
Thank you ❤
Most of us feel shame for contributing to the mistreatment & deaths of countless animals before going vegan but please don't be too hard on yourself. Shame can be paralysing.
The important lesson is we move forward with newfound knowledge & a commitment to grow, learn & do better.
And for what it's worth, I think volunteering to help others in need is very selfless & kind 💜
@@hannahmitchell87 ya ignorance is a byproduct of our exploitative society , none of us our perfect , what matters is how we better ourselves and face our mistakes xxx
Emily, this went way beyond horse riding in such a thought-provoking way! I didn't expect the exploration and focus upon the use/exploitation of sentient beings as the core ethical issue as you say. It's VERY easy for us to focus on "overt abuse" like physical harm and lose sight of the deeper problem of exploitation/use itself. This must have taken you SO much time to produce! As always, I'm amazed by the time, care, attention, and thought you pour into your work. (And always appreciative of the moments of sarcastic wit you throw in! Like the "whip" comment pause...) I'm off now to read the article on your website and will be sure to comment there as well. Thank you for this powerful resource!
Anesh, thank you so much (as always) for your thoughtful feedback and encouragement. I'm honored that the work I put into this came through, and even more so that my "thesis" seems to have been clear. It was quite an experience diving back into this topic...as I was looking into the "physical harm" I felt that all the debate and nitpicking was truly a distraction from the underlying fact that any use of a sentient being is inherently unethical and exploitative. Just like with the "humane" and "cage free" and other incremental negotiations we make, it's all just a way to keep using other animals without confronting the inherent abuse of that use. Thank you for taking the time to comment and share your thoughts!
I don't think anyone can disagree with all the points you've made, thank you for explaining it so well!
Thank you so much :) I'm so glad to hear it came across well.
People can be in deep denial.......Emily tho is a sweetheart so I hope anyone against exploitation who still ride will here her out. None of us are perfect and society doesn't help but together we can do better and be better for people and animals (=
Somehow many "vegans" still do. It's absolutely horrifying
I remember having an online "debate" with someone about horseriding and their overall "justification" was that it was "the horse's job" to be ridden. I didn't realize horses needed "jobs" and that they were actually getting paid fair wages! who woulda thunk?? (/intense sarcasm)
Your video is absolutely fantastic and I'm always floored by the amount of research you put into them.
Thank you, as always, for all that you do! ❤️
Thank you so much, galisatsuki! And yes...I've heard that a lot about all kinds of animal labor.. that somehow they not only "need" to have a job but they also "enjoy" that job. Thank you for your kind words about the amount of research I put it. This one was particularly monstrous! (And absurd in that I ended up NOT focusing on hardly ANY of the research in the actual video/article because it really does distract from what's REALLY the issue!). Anyways, thank you so much for your feedback :)
That also shows how non-human and human exploitation are intrinsically tied together...
Oh my goodness, such an amazing video! As a passionate horse person, it broke my heart when I realized what I was doing to the horses I loved so much. Honestly, I secretly hated riding them but never said anything because it was the only way I could spend a lot of time with them, like you said, in the constraints we have put them under. Other horse people didn't like me just hanging around spending time with the horses; there was a definite pressure that the horses MUST be ridden or you suck as a horse owner/boarder. There's a lot of judgement of horse ownership from other horse fanatics and everything you do is put under a microscope. It's a mix of aristocracy, snobbery, condescension, egoism, and above all else, power and control. I left the horse world because of the people and it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. One day I hope to own a horse ( or two heehee) far away from insane horse people and give them so much love, freedom and care and let them just exist as they were meant to. 💗💕🐎
You can’t “own” another being. They are not ours.
Thank you so much, Melissa! I'm so glad to hear you enjoyed the video. I appreciate you sharing your experience and it does echo so much of what I've heard from other people with a history in "the horse world". Until I interviewed Ren Hurst (and had had much passionate feedback on my original video) I had NO idea the intensity of the horse riding world. It was very eye-opening! It really opened in me a deeper examination of the exploitation of domestication...something that I think is VERY challenging for anyone to confront-vegans very much included. I really appreciate you taking the time to share your own journey!
@@christinageorgieva exactly!! What I wouldn't give to see horses wild and free one day 💕🐎
@@christinageorgieva I think it's just a colloquial way to put so that everyone understands. The construction "to have a horse" or "to keep a horse" is vague. Vegans know what "own" a horse means.
A very inspiring video. I've loved horses my entire life, but nobody ever presented me with this information before. If they had, I would've been a better person. Thanks Emily!!💕💕
So glad to hear this was enlightening, Barbara. I really put my all into it and really hope it reaches people.
I love this comment I'm tearing up 🥲
I can 'understand' non-vegans trying to justify using animals as it's what I see everyday everywhere, but I can never understand vegans defending horse riding. Great work in this video.
Thank you so very much!
You all need to stop claiming Joaquin Phoenix is vegan then,he regularly rides horses in his movies 🤦
@@noticeddamian He said before he regrets riding horses I dont think he is doing so with great pleasure or defence but he could do more to refuse.
@@aprioriontoast704 he regretted it so much he did it again for his next movie napoleon 😆is he not vegan or is horse riding vegan now?
I would hope vegans that do ride horses just haven't given the topic enough thought . I do not think use and exploitation have to be on the same wavelength you can use somebody with mutual benefit to both parties , you can also use somebody without exploiting them and you can use somebody without using power or unfair manipulation over them the key to the topic is whether there is a violation of somebody's rights. You can also do something somebody doesn't like to them when it is in their best interests (taking a dog to the vet, child to school etc )
Riding a horse isn't really in their interest and anytime it is the horse is usually being denied a better alternative due to exploration , if a vegan rides a horse esp a new vegan I would challenge them calmly and discuss it , if they are truly vegan they are against exploitation so would eventually see reason with good argument.
None of us a perfect even vegans and we all need to help each other be better people, esp in a society that promotes and desensitizes us to ignore aninmal rights ! and be self serving humans , we all can do better and how we respond and grow is what separates us from people who never go vegan.
Props to the scientist whipping himself, i wish he didnt need to, but here we are. Thanks, Mr. Now we quantifiably know it hurts. Good job, you deserve a fcking raise, man... for real.
Emily, your intellect and sense of humor, as well as a technical prowess are a delight! Thank you for making additional videos that support me in my advocacy! To you I send a psychic hug
Wow! Thank you so much for your kind words :) This really means a great deal to me. I'm truly honored. :)
Training a horse to ride is called "breaking" them. The cruelty is so ingrained, it's a point of pride.
I remember the, uh, _avid conversations_ under the last video you posted on this subject, so I really appreciate your addressing it anew. I have a young relative who is getting into horseback riding and it's very distressing to me that they cannot put two and two together. Speciesism, which the child's parents labor under, is a difficult conditioning to overcome. Thanks for posting!
So glad to have re-done this (though man... I didn't realize how much work it was going to be when I started! It really became quite the undertaking)... And yes.. VERY avid conversations on the first video! To this day brought the most controversy even though I've covered topics I would have thought were far MORE so!
One thing you did not mention is kicking the poor animal in the ribs to get it to speed up. Its walking or running pace. Regardless of how "gentle" (as one may THINK OR TRY) to do it. They themselves need to feel the degree of what a horse feels being kicked in the ribs. Let's be honest here many people still use/ wear those evil spurs. They need a good rib kick from someone wearing those.
This video definitely convinced me, if I wasn't convinced already, that horse-riding is not vegan. But I now question pets in general. The point of emotional fulfillment is still exploitive is very true. It makes me sad because I love cats and dogs, but I don't want to make animals suffer. But perhaps our goal with pets is a bit different than horses, because with pets a good adopter (and I am specifically talking about pet adoption) should put the pet's needs first. If we see the pet as a mutual, then is it okay? But I also don't want to gaslight myself just to keep imprisoning animals. Curious for your thoughts.
I do definitely think you need a license to adopt an animal. I know multiple people in my life with dogs who don't walk them. That is using a dog for an emotional fulfillment without truly thinking about your dog's needs, and it is abuse. But if you do put your dog's needs first and treat them as an equal (and I mean truly respect them and not use them), maybe adoption is okay?
Very glad to hear this was affirming for you. And yes-it does open up the ethics of domestication as a whole... I was hoping this video would reach beyond the question of horse riding. That's where it took me, at least! Actually Ren Hurst (whom I feature in this video) has a new book that focuses on relationships with "captive dependents" and how to change the nature of our relationship with them. You may find it helpful. Look for "the Wisdom of Wildness". It has a strong thread of spiritual language, but even if you're not "into" that, she lists 13 principles of "undomestication" with practical application examples of actual interactions with dependents.
It is hard to confront the ways we STILL use other animals for our own needs, even if vegan and conscious of their inherent rights. But I think feeling that disquiet is a good thing because it means you're still actively striving to not exploit other beings (something I think we as vegans can sometimes assume we're "fully past")...
@@BiteSizeVegan I'll definitely check out the book. Thank you for taking the time to respond with food for thought!
@@MelodiCat753 Sure thing! I try to make the comment rounds as best I can in the first day or two of a video's release. Wish I could always keep up with all of them!
@@BiteSizeVegan Also just wanted to thank you for helping me go vegan. My sister followed you 5 years ago and you were a big contributor to her going vegan. I only wish I went vegan back then, but now 21 and in college and out of my parent's household, I'm vegan as well. So thank you for setting the seeds with her so that I woke up to the abuse myself.
Thank you for your great effort for re-addressing horseback riding in the greatest depth and with the most comprehensive ethical perspective. Thank you for bringing justice to the animals.
Thank you so much for your kind words, Chris! I'm honored. This was quite the undertaking and really did take me in directions I wasn't expecting initially. But I hope that it really speaks to people beyond "just" horse riding and to the greater underlying issue of our use(exploitation) of ALL sentient beings.
In this day and age, horse riding is completely unethical because there's no way for horse to give consent to be ridden. Just like all other animal cruelty, it is a purely profit based business, from breeding all the way to racing, just like every other animal based business.
Absolutely agree with everything said here. There really is no cause, beyond ‘me me me’.
Great video Emily ✊✊✊
Thank you so much, Bev Llewellyn! I'm glad to hear this resonated with you.
Well said ❤
Thank you for this super informative video!!
Your time spent on gathering all of the info is apparent- and appreciated.
I’m sharing in some of my groups!❤️
Awesome thank you so much for sharing it! That helps more than anything I can do to get this out to more people. I'm also grateful that the time I put into this is evident. It was quite the undertaking!
I always wondered about this and after becoming vegan I definitely look at riding horses as something that isn't good. Thank you so much Emily for all the information and clarifying what my instinct was telling me 🥰
You're so very welcome Lori Williams! Very glad to have been able to address this :)
My sister walks horses, there is no need to ride them. That way both individuals get exercise 🚶🐎
I don't see any valid reason to ride horses. I think this "love" riders have for their horses is no different than the love an abusive person has for their significant other. They may feel they truly love that person, but they are still abusing them whether they realize it or not.
Great video. This is my first time on your channel.
Very well said. The word "abuse" is very charged, but it really is just when we "misuse" someone...it doesn't have to be the kind of overt physical abuse we think of with the word. The exploitation of domestication and use of others is much more insidious and subtle. Also, welcome to my channel! Happy you found me :)
"[...] We actually congrats ourselves for being the hero's in the disaster of our own creation"
That sums it up pretty nicely
Yup. It’s a turn of phrase I’ve used in my speeches too. Usually with the example of how we “swoop in” to alleviate the discomfort of a dairy cow’s swollen udder. Which wouldn’t be swollen had we not taken her child away…
Here with us, not for us!!
Absolutely
As an ex horse-rider who grew up around horses, taught riding lessons, and practiced show jumping. I am now a vegan and haven't ridden for years, I feel like I miss riding so much, but I cannot find a reason to ride that isn't purely only for me... never for the horse. My biggest dream now is having a big farm area, where I can keep rescued horses never to be ridden again
Excellent video once again, Emily. Learned a lot here, thanks! 😇
So glad to hear it Carl! Thank you :)
1:06 ...but every rider was once inexperienced, so in conclusion: every rider did harm to horses once... but of course, this shouldn't even be the question. Thanks for this video! 💚💚💚
Good point! And you're so very welcome!
You did a great job clearly stating why horse riding is cruel and not vegan. I've been a vegan for 18 years and haven't ridden a horse since I was a child when I was too young to know better. I live in a town where people sell horse rides on the beach and seeing the cruelty and suffering of those horses has made me extra passionate about trying to end the practice of exploiting horses. Horses treated horribly all over the world. It's really heartbreaking but I will share your video with anyone I come across who does not see why horse riding is wrong.
Thank you so much for your feedback and sharing your experience. And I’d be honored if you share this with others. That’s why I do this! I hope this can be a lasting resource for people :)
Hello and thank you for taking the time to make this video! As an ex-rider and vegan, here are a few things that might make for additional good points:
- In addition to the potential back issue and discomfort from tack, horses' legs and feet are easily injured. The ligaments, muscles, and bones in the legs and feet are among the most fragile parts of their bodies and are also the most important (many, many horses are euthanized as a result of injuries and diseases in these areas). Most horse "owners" are very well aware of medical issues pertaining to these areas and some will go to great lengths to solve them (including nerve blocks, which essentially numb the pain).
- One of the main reasons people ride is because it's fun. Similar to going on a theme park ride or riding a bike or jet ski, you get a rush from riding a horse. With so many different disciplines, places to ride, and exercises to do, it is an addictive hobby for riders. It is a skill that once learned results in wanting to learn more. Many are attracted to the competition aspects and what makes it better than the alternatives (such as bike riding) is the fact that you are simultaneously training the horse to be in sync with you. In addition to that, the social aspect of going to a barn and riding with friends while taking care of the horses is extremely enjoyable.
- The main thing that made me realize riding wasn't a good thing to do was the fact that the horse doesn't want to do it. Yes, some horses enjoy going out on a trail, but related to what you described so well in this video, it is only enjoyable to the horse because it is in their nature to walk many miles per day. If you have spent time around horses, ask yourself what they would prefer to be doing. It's eating grass out in a field with other horses. That's it. Can they enjoy spending time with humans and being groomed? Yes (mainly if treats are involved). But do they ever WANT to be perpetually run around in circles (which is an unnatural movement for them and can also cause major stress on their bodies)? No.
- Listing out alternatives to riding could be helpful (yes, people who ride horses even need these suggestions, because a lot of the time, all they actually do with horses is ride them). You can do ground work, liberty, tricks, and just playing as horses might naturally do. You can groom them, scratch their favorite neck or belly spot, take them for walks, and hang out with them in the field. It's even enjoyable to just watch them as they graze and interact with their horse friends, doing what they most love to do. These are similar activities that a person might do with their other companion animals.
- Something I think about a lot is how horses would be viewed if riding them was taken out of the equation. Why are horses revered and fiercely protected while cows are seen as "livestock" to be slaughtered and consumed? Why are horses deemed majestic while pigs are thought of as dirty animals destined to become bacon? Because we have labeled horses as having more value due to the fact that they carry humans around on their backs. If no one rode horses, they would likely end up as a food source as well (many already do, including thousands of previously-ridden horses who became injured, unrideable, and therefore "useless" to someone).
I think that horse riding is something that will take a long time to diminish. The equestrian community and industry will not go away quickly. I hope that more people who ride will make this connection as I have (coming from someone who worked on a horse farm for years and considered riding to be their favorite hobby for the majority of their life). It took me a long time to go through the process of accepting the reality of riding. It isn't something that can be determined after watching one video, but the information presented here can be the beginning of someone's realization. It is a very personal experience and conclusion to arrive at. What helped me was spending time with horses at a sanctuary where I got to just be around them and learn to do other things with them. I closely monitored how I was feeling about horses through the process to determine if I really loved horses or if I actually mainly just loved riding. It turns out that I still love horses just as much as I did and I understand them so much better than I ever had before. I continue to volunteer and care for many "companion horses" at a rescue and have plans to adopt a few in the future. It is the same dream I've always had, it just looks a little different.
Thank you again for creating this video!
Love this comment! That's great you came to these realisations despite being an ex-rider and working on a horse farm. Shows how compassionate you are. I hope this comment gets pinned because it's a great elaboration on what was already said, and can show other riders that change is possible
Thank you for sharing, Valerie. Very enlightening.
I think this is a brilliant evaluation of the relationship horse riders have with horses. I'm so happy to find someone thinking in these terms. I am vegan. I've been thinking a lot about how horses are used. I live in a 'horsey' neighborhood. I see horses being ridden daily on the trail I walk. And I wonder about it. I'm glad to see others are questioning this relationship. I also saw a video of a spectacular win at the Kentucky Derby last year. Watching it get's one's adrenaline pumping. It was amazing to see. But then I thought about the poor horse. Then I saw the rider had been suspended for being too aggressive. Then I felt bad about being thrilled by the spectacle. That anyone is questioning this relationship to animal use at all denotes progress in our awakening I think. And I'm glad for that. And I'm so happy someone recommended this video to me. I think you are just brilliant. I have a facebook friend who keeps and rides horses. I'm going to post this. It will probably end the relationship. That's ok. We need to be ethical humans.
Deb, thank you so much for your comment. I'm honored to hear that you found this to be a thought-provoking video. I really did pour my all into it! And yes, horse racing is a horrific industry to be sure. I have a separate video and article on that from a number of years ago: ua-cam.com/video/MrT0h6NXjcA/v-deo.html I live in an area with a very large Amish population, so I see horses pulling carts day in and day out in the most severe weather. It's heartbreaking for sure. I'm so glad someone recommended this to you and really appreciate you taking the time to share your feedback!
I am fifteen and started horseback riding a year ago, I also rode a lot of horses when I was a little child.
Every time I go to a lesson, I feel so bad for the horse that I am riding.
I never want to whip the horse and when I do, I always think about how painful it it’s for the horse.
The bit, I too constantly attempt to try and have quiet hands. But yet again, I still have to use it.
I too don’t want to own a horse of my own, because I know that if I were to have a horse of my own. I would most definitely want to give it the best like I could possibly offer, just like with any other animal.
I don’t know, I have thought about quitting due to the unethical reasons. It also really impacts me, how can a horse live without a pasture? I really love animals, that’s why I don’t eat them, and primarily do not purchase anything derived from them. I adore horses, but I know that my selfishness isn’t comparable to how the horse is being treated.
I want to focus on cycling, in Russian we call it “our iron horse”. If I will eventually quit horseback riding, I will definitely miss it. However, I know that it’s for the better, as I want to minimise as much harm as possible, it hurts me inside as well.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Maybe some advice? Personal experiences? I am open to suggestions, thank you.
Some great points made. I really love the idea of horses having free range to live and exercise at their own free will.
So glad to hear you point the points I made in this to be of import!
Brilliant video Emily very thorough well spoken an educational on the fundamental ethical issues here. Huge thanks for making & sharing, fair play to you.🌱🐴💚🌅
Wow! Thank you so much for your kind words, Pjvenom1985 ! I'm honored. This was a MONSTER to put together for sure, and it took me to places I wasn't exactly expecting... But I hope that it really speaks to people beyond "just" horse riding and to the greater underlying issue of our use(exploitation) of sentient beings.
This welfarist approach is problematic, really. Just a week ago, I saw an article about a new farmer, the paper rejoiced she chose a type of pigs which was bordering extinction, so it was like she was saving them... How is raising them to be killed and eaten some twisted form of preservation ? People just can't imagine non-humans can exist without being useful to them, yet there already are all sorts of species we don't pay for and who don't pay a dime, and everything is fine. They got their life, no humans needed, thank you very much. Nobody is questioning the lifestyle of lizards and ladybugs, really. But don't we do the same with humans, when you are no longer bankable, are you worth existing still ? We will have to fight to remain humane humans, pals !
Great observations. We most definitely view animals through the lens of what they do for US, or how they exist in relationship TO us.
Emily, you're such a GOOD PERSON! If I was an animal I'd want YOU to speak FOR ME! #WonderfulEmpathy
I don’t understand how this is not obvious to everyone 😢
Fantastic video and article, Emily Thank You for posting these 🙏
Thank you so much, Joshin The Buddhist Vegan! I'm honored :) And you are so very welcome. I hope that they serve as a lasting resource.
"The Incremental Negotiation of Exploitation". Wow! So true...
I've been guilty of it myself & I'm sure we all see it in others.
I've never heard such a succinct, profound summary of the emotional haggling we do before (hopefully) concluding that animals aren't commodities
I'm so glad that this resonated with you, Hannah. I'm honored that it sparked some reflection. The incremental negotiation of "acceptable" exploitation is absolutely something we ALL do...vegans very much included!
This video is the best video on horse riding I've ever seen, perfection. Well done 🙏
Wow thank you! It was quite the labor of love. Thrilled to hear it.
I'm so happy to see you!!! 💚💚💚
Hi there! I'm happy to "see" you too :D Just FYI, in case UA-cam hasn't "told you" I've been "back" producing content for a YEAR now. (You may already know this and just be happy to see me again.) :) But in case not, you can check out the NEW videos on my channel and website. If you are NOT getting notified, you can check out this troubleshooting article from UA-cam: support.google.com/youtube/answer/7391308 (be sure to click the bell and select "all notifications" etc) BUT please note that UA-cam NO LONGER SENDS EMAILS about new videos - even though that article says they do! SO, for more RELIABLE notifications, please subscribe to my newsletter or follow on Telegram: bitesizevegan.org/subscribe/
The power of a script to turn all my thoughts into such an eloquent speech. I'll send over anyone who wonders about what vegans think of horse riding from now on.
Honored to hear this! Thank you :) That's precisely what I hope for this video/article to be: a resource to refer people to regarding this topic :)
Thank you for this great video Emily!
You really opened my eyes on this.
People get into fights about how to use animals in the right/ ethical way.
But we shouldn't use/ exploit them at all.
Of course they get excited, when they can get out of their prison, but that doesn't mean they want to be ridden. I don't know why I wasn't able to see that.
You're so very welcome, raven! I'm thrilled to hear this was enlightening! I really wanted to emphasize that exact point... All the haggling over the RIGHT WAY to use someone is just a distraction from the fact that ANY use is exploitative!
That’s what I would call a perfect video with a perfect argumentation. Fantastic job, Emily!
Now take a breather and relax for at least a day… so you can get ready for the next wonderful video. ❤
Thank you so much, Siegfried Verheijke! Yes this one really took a lot (though they all do). But this one was many 12-14 hour days for a few weeks. I don't know why I do it how I do... turning something like this out in about 2.5 weeks as one person is insane! I see organizations that have full teams and would take at least a month or more for something of this size, depth, and editing...plus all the article aspects too (which are ample!). It's hard to manage a timeline that "feeds" the social media beasts when also striving for quality and integrity....and being one person!
Would love to relax, but now all the things I've had to sideline in order to get this done have to be handled. (I'm also the accountant, the web developer, the social media manager, the communications department, etc etc etc.) ha!
I started off thinking about racing, show jumping, etc was cruel. Then I was thinking about the police who use them to ride and get around, along with people who use them in the bush to track poachers. (Coming from a South African)
Thinking that was maybe ok,
That that was using horses for a better cause.
But the more I listened the more you made sense and no matter how you dress it up, it's not acceptable. It's so sad that we humans are the way we are.
Wow Sandra thank you for taking the time to share this. I am profoundly honored to hear that this helped you get to that place. And honored that you actually were open to listening and receiving the ethical premises I put forth in this video. Very rewarding to hear :)
As with everything, you can make it as cruel as you want it to be. There is a difference between exploiting or be in harmony with the horse. I know horses who love to work and be ridden and turn downright pain in the back end if you skip it for even one day. I also see torture in the sportsworld, where everything is possible and money buys everything except making the horse feel being a horse. That be said, many riders enjoy their horses and there is a clear shift towards more horse friendly way of keeping them happy (24/7 pasture with other horses, working with them more naturaly, going barefeet etc). But for as long as majority of horses still spend 22 hours a day in solitairy confinement, lots of works needs be done. For hardcore vegans horseriding is likely off limits, but imo life would be boring not having animals in your life that are perfectly happy living with you, horses grazing in a field, chicken foraging around your house, a cat on your lap and a dog to join you on a walk. For hardcore vegans that should be off limits if 'owning' an animal is exploiting them. But do they? Its all personal choice. Im no vegan myself but I make sure all my animals live a happy life and have their needs met all the time. Also with riding my horses, they dont have to work hard, I ride bitless and plenty of times to graze on the way I just enjoy to take them on a trailride and do whatever it takes to have them enjoy it too. If they dont feel like it I try something else until they do (going home is no option as you will teach them they can avoid it all together anytime they please very quickly). As I have multiple horses I swap them all the time so usualy I ride each for 20 minutes in total the others sometimes just run free next to me depending on where I go, they usualy stay together anyway but sometimes its more complicated and I tie them together with a special girth and I have my hands free as well. They live outside in a herd so they move all the time, its for me pure relaxation to ride, I dont have to.
Animals aren't vehicles. It's that simple.
Horses technically did serve as vehicles back in the day when they pulled stagecoaches and pulled the fireman’s wagons water pump.
im banned from some horse forums for posting about campaigns to assist horses.
Great video, as always. Thanks for all your hard work and research. This really needed to be made. 🙏🏼
You’re so very welcome. Hope this can serve as a lasting resource.
I did some horse back riding while growing up. A lot of it seems to be about dominance. Taking control of this amazing animal that is much more powerful then me and being able to tell it where to go and get it to bring you there. Put blinders on their eyes, a bite in their mouth, kick their side a little when you want them to go a little fast. Bow that I am vegan and am learning about veganism I see how crazy that is to try to dominate another being. Thank-you for this work. I had no idea ok spent such long hours on this. You are really very intelligent. This is a video to share with a scholar who would want to debate this which is so valuable!
Thank you for sharing your experience. It most definitely has much to do with power and control! I'm honored that you found my approach to be effective...definitely poured a LOT into this one :) Though I do with all of them. Many 10-14 hour days over the last few weeks! Thank you for taking the time to comment!
I'm a new vegan and this was incredibly informative for me. I'd seen a few things here and there about why horse riding is bad which I got the gist of and agreed with but I really like having the full picture of why it's wrong. I'd definitely send this to someone if I was trying to get them to understand the issue.
SO thrilled to hear this! That's exactly what I was hoping for with this video and article. Please do share it with others. I really hope it can serve as a lasting resource.
Another outstanding video, Emily! Not only have you addressed an important, emotionally charged topic, you have done so in a clear, well organized, thoughtful way. The production qualities of your video are also excellent. Really good graphics, etc.
I strongly agree with your point of view. It is simply and unequivocally wrong for people to exploit other creatures. That is one of the crucial issues that our age is confronting, and it's understandable that many people resist. But if we truly love animals, or even if we're just trying to do right by them, we need to face this truth: we have no right to enslave and exploit other animals regardless of the benefits we might obtain as individuals or as a society. No, it's not okay to own horses. No, dogs. No cats. No nothing. Leave them alone. Let them go their own way and live their own lives. I hope to live long enough to see the end of animal breeding to support human exploitation. I love these animals, too, and that's why I believe we must let go of the idea that we have some innate right to own, restrain, dominate or control them in any way.
Thank you, Titus, for your ind words about my work. This was a MASSIVE undertaking to put together...it really evolved many times throughout my research and writing! And I'm also thrilled to hear you find the production quality to be excellent. I really put a lot into them.
I really appreciate your thoughts and insights on the insidiousness of exploitation and domestication of other beings. It's a very challenging thing (I think) for most humans to confront-vegans very much included!
Thank you for giving this topic new anti-exploitation layer. Your previous videos on horses were also brilliant.
Thank you so much, Russian Vegan Girl! I'm very glad I was able to revisit this from that deeper perspective. Though I know this video will never get the views of the original, I hope it serves as a lasting resource and gets people thinking about the ethics of exploitation and use beyond horses even.
THANK YOU !!! I grew up around my entire family riding horses. I DO NOT anymore !!! : )
Keep opening those cans of worms. You are brilliant. We need a reasonable voice. Thank you for this.
Thank you :) So glad to hear it came across as I was hoping.
People always accuse me of talking too fast..... I can't keep up 😣
You can use the speed settings on the UA-cam player to slow me down :)
I have never ridden a horse, i have gambled on them before in the past. I have noticed that more & more gambling shops are starting to use virtual horse & dog racing. I myself found these more entertaining that the live racing. But still even in the virtual racing they still use a whip. It as taken me a long time to realise that human beings are educated to be a horrible cruel species. I learn more & more by watching your videos & others peoples. I feel that Veganism should be a subject taught in schools from a very early age. I know if i had always been a vegan i would have been a much kinder person to animals & also humans or any species. I have a question for you Emily. Animals that are forced to wear collars & leashes or chokers & muzzles. In the eyes of professional vegans or animal activists. Is this a good or bad thing? I dont have pets myself. Looking at it from an animals point of view. It would be similar to putting a noose around a humans neck, but without the hanging bit. I have so much to learn still & i try to see things from the animals point of view. The main thing i have learned though. Not only do all animals & creatures have feelings & show care & all the stuff humans do & have. But they all have different personalities.
I really hope horse lovers take these points into consideration. I’ve met many former horse riders who’ve gone onto say they now have better relationships with their companions without riding.
Thank you!! Sharing on FB. Very thorough, but sad that everyone didn't get it after the first video, which was also thorough.
Я нуждалась в этом видео. Ничего нового я, правда, не услышала. Всё это я уже читала в книгах Невзорова ещё лет 10 назад, про нарушение кровообращения, термографирование, вопрос о том, зачем ты садишься на лошадь и т.д. Но это не плохо ни в коем случае. Я рада что эта тема продолжает подниматься и вызывать бурление. Это даёт надежду, что когда-нибудь индустрия развлечения с лошадьми изменится или исчезнет насовсем.
Thank you Emily. These points all help with further articulating these ideas in activism and conversations.
So glad to hear it! I am hoping this video and article will serve as a lasting resource.
I was born loving horses and during the romance of the Old West. I wanted nothing so much, but I had to find a way, as my parents couldn't afford horses. As a kid in the 50s and 60s, I was steeped in the Biblical "dominion" over all things propaganda, both at school and church (you could teach the Bible and ONE religion (guess which) at public school, until I was about 8). I found someone who would help me (and abuse me) and started training horses at 11, and continued breeding, training and showing horses off and on most of my life. I eventually got my dream, a small horse farm. I was into dressage, thinking it was the most "humane" and "natural" discipline, and had always been an advocate of only riding adult horses (3-4yrs). Until I learned of the abuses at the Olympic dressage level, from the abusers themselves, at clinics. After I got into Zen Buddhism and meditation, in the early 90s, I got to a point where I couldn't enslave the horses I loved just for my own relaxation, fun, and sport. I had lost my farm in a divorce, and kept my horses in stables, turned out for a few hours. I always thought horses should at least be in pastures and "free". But you can't do that and show them, due to winter coat, bug bites, sun bleaching, etc. Plus feeding horses an unnatural diet of rich grains and sugar (molasses) has created a whole industry of treating the life-threatening colic these diets cause. And obesity. Riding causes back and hip problems and pain in horses, and now there's a big industry of horse chiropractic, confirming this problem (as well as the whole racing industry). And a massive industry of joint and bone supplements.
So I gave my remaining retired horse to someone for gentle riding, and I walked away from horse slavery. While this was all expeditious after my divorce and financial situation, what matters is that I left it, have grown consciouly, and haven't gone back. I love horses outside of riding them, and liked to think I could keep one just as a pet, no riding. But now I just see that as I see keeping birds I would love to know and bond with. Both animals need the big spaces of land and air, and to deprive them of those is beyond cruel. In a perfect world, horses would live as deer or other grazing wild animals do. I realize that is harder and harder as habitats are lost, and it's horses vs cattle ranchers in the US, with wild horses losing. As with all our effects on the planet, the answers are complex. Such as vegans, and well, everyone, needs farmland, thus habitat loss. Ditto overpopulation of humans and the ecological imbalances that causes, just to feed ourselves. Anyway, yes, no horse wants to be ridden. They don't bring you their painful bridles and beg. They don't "enjoy" it. WE enjoy it, and it is wonderful to ride out in nature on such glorious creatures, feeling a great bond. But, like a good steak, it's not worth it, and causes terrible harm and suffering. Ty for this video!
thanks for the comment
I concur. Thank you for the comment and the compassion.
Missed this channel. Thanks so much for all your work!
Thank Thank you for ALL the hard work!
You're so very welcome J Priest!
This is fascinating. Thank you!!
You're so very welcome Emily Greene!
I wonder if there are manuals out there on proper whipping techniques for humans from 200 years ago... You know, so we can make sure we're treating them as well as possible.
Most likely!
"There is no way to take advantage of someone's captive dependency without exploiting them" amazing! Relates to other forms of exploitation such as pets, backyard chickens, zoos, as well as human exploitation.
Absolutely!
@@BiteSizeVegan Would you consider doing a video using similar arguments for the pets "debate"?
I think the most sensible thing is advocating for strict regulation for health of kept horses, I personally don't view riding itself as animal abuse but there are certainly a lot of abuse going on anything related to using animals in any purpose, especially in competitions, bets and etc. It's something like why is it so difficult for human beings to not abuse other beings? they can be of help to us and we can be a help for them(we hope the world was more balanced and natural so they don't need our help, but they do now anyway). Also I always get pissed at movies that have horses going to the battle fields and dying like flies because of humans. Honestly, friendship with animals are so sacred and riding itself can be in an ideal world, but I guess in this world as of now, it's sure hard to be that way.
The issue with regulations and welfarism as an approach is that it is the embodiment of the incremental negotiation of "acceptable" exploitation I discussed in this video. I'd recommend checking out my speech about the dangers of welfarism: ua-cam.com/video/8WSrRV5ovPE/v-deo.html if you're interested :)
It seems like you didn't even see the video. Honestly, she is doing thought provoking and groundbreaking work and it is worth it to hear a fresh point of view and really listen and consider.
Thank you for covering this important topic. It's brilliant strategy to get the message delivered with the help of someone like Ren Hurst, who has a background in horse riding. Much appreciation for your work. 🙏💚
You're so very welcome Ethical Phytophage! Thank you :)
@@BiteSizeVegan 🙏💚
I was watching the king of Englands coronation and saw how the horses were being used and do clearly did not like it! It was soooo obvious that they did not like any of what they were being forced to do and it seemed so crazy!
this is a fantastic video, the message is clear, thoughtful and excellently presented. You do an amazing job
Thank you so much, Lemuel Saunders!
Thank you for your effort, you've always been the most trustful source of information for me.
You're so very welcome Kace! Honored to hear this.
I love every video you make Emily. Thank you for the huge amount of work you do helping all animals 💚
Thank you so much for your kind words, Jatinda ! I'm honored.
Thank you for talking about this.
You're so very welcome Christine!
I would love to hear from you what you suggest horse owners do with their horses if they come to the realization that having and riding them is ethically wrong. I bought a macaw 16 years ago who partially pushed me to become vegan (among other reason). I felt inadequate as his life partner. I love him to death, but I realized I had made a grave mistake taking on/exploiting him for my own pleasure. And now I am stuck with him because I can't let him fly away. I can't reintroduce him to the wild. I can't give him away to a rescue place. What do pet owners do who end up realizing having pets is wrong? (my bird is lucky compared to many other birds. He spends hours with me every day and we go out a lot, so nothing unusually cruel here, lol.)
I have the same question. I have my horse in Austria. We don't have enough land to provide a horse with a safe space big enough for it to exercise on its own. I could walk my horse but he would not be happy with that solution because I can't run fast enough for him to properly exercise. And you would need to walk a horse 5-6 hours a day to get enough movement in. I can let him run in the roundpen but this would also get boring fast. Please don't get me wrong I do a lot of horsemanship and ground work, but if he is never able to go out and galopp around in the woods his life would change for the worse and I can't see how to do that without mounting my horse. Sorry for my bad english it is my second language
Hi Robin. Actually Ren Hurst (who I feature in this video) has a new book that focuses on relationships with "captive dependents" and how to change the nature of our relationship with them. You may find it helpful. Look for "the Wisdom of Wildness". It has a strong thread of spiritual language, but even if you're not "into" that, she lists 13 principles of "undomestication" with practical application examples of actual interactions with dependents.
Interesting take even for a non-vegan like me, food for thought. The question that needs to be taken into account every single time in such considerations though is how does life of a captive horse compare to that of a wild one? For example a wild owl lives on average typically less than 3 years. Eventually they start to get sick and suffer prolonged hunger and eventually get so weak they either very slowly and painfully die on their own or get killed by a predator who otherwise had no chance. A captive owl can live as much as 20 years in relative comfort. It is such context you would need to compare to the relative chances of injury, death, lack of freedom, boredom, etc. I am not saying this makes holding any being as prisoner from birth automatically ok, but to me this absolutely needs to be included and addressed if you want to convince someone who isn't already fully sold on the premise that using a being is apriori wrong. Riding is apparently worse than not riding, but if being ridden by humans is what buys you the ticket into comforts of captivity, then you still need to make the case why freedom is better.
What a great video. Congratulations for such a thorough and thoughtful explanation that I currently see no argument against. Vegan for 5.5 y and surprised when some vegans justify why them riding horses doesn't make them not vegan 🤦🏻♂️
wow this is a great breakdown thank you.
You're so very welcome Peren barn! Very glad to hear it :)
another amazing video! So much great information :^)
Thank you so much, Ashley Geraets!
Amazing video yet again. Thank you for all you do.
Thank you so much, Riley Stein!
Love your content.. for years. You're spot on. Thanks for another great video 💕 the common sense needs to be understood. You can't make it more clear. Hugs!
Thank you so much, Robert McDonald :) Honored to still have you here :)
Have you been away??? I’m so glad you’re back, I missed your videos!
Thank you, VGVN I've actually been "back" producing content for almost a year and a half now. Unfortunately, UA-cam doesn't see fit to TELL most subscribers that I am making videos (which is very defeating). You can check out the NEW videos on my channel and website. If you are NOT getting notified, you can check out this troubleshooting article from UA-cam: support.google.com/youtube/answer/7391308 (be sure to click the bell and select "all notifications" etc) BUT please note that UA-cam NO LONGER SENDS EMAILS about new videos - even though that article says they do! SO, for more RELIABLE notifications, please subscribe to my newsletter or follow on Telegram: bitesizevegan.org/subscribe/
Hi Emily,
Thanks for another great video!
I'm kind of afraid to ask but also feel like I have to know. Having dogs at home and loving them as my own children as I'm sure some horse riders love their horses no less, I can't seem to reconcile the similarity of what you said about confining horses and then viewing riding them and their excitement as a relative emotion of happiness and not their natural state just as inmates would view their hours outside or doing trivial things that we (as free people) take for granted as bringing them joy. This feels similar to dogs being confined in the home and being excited to go on walks, usually on a leash, even though I personally prefer to take them to open fields where they can run more freely, it's still just a perk they receive several times a day when the rest of the time they are stuck at home. I realize the comparison is far from equal as they aren't being ridden or whipped, but they do have a collar, harness or in some worse cases - prong collars, choke chains etc. Of course there is also being in a dog shelter and the risk of being euthanized which for any dog that is adopted into a good home is definitely a better option of the two. There is also the issue of food, I know there are vegan dog foods, one of my dogs happily ate vegan dog food, but the other absolutely hates it (I've tried all brands available in my area). As far as I know for cats it's not possible or recommended but... there is that as well.. I could go on trying to justify having a dog at home, from domestication, dependance and on and on but I would love it if you would debate this topic as well as you have done others. I'm 100% sure my dogs love me and know I want only the best for them, but the question is whether this is also a form of exploitation as it brings me alot of joy having dogs at home.
No doubt this is a difficult topic, maybe even tougher than horses as many more vegans have pets than actually ride horses.
I'm asking out of concern and wanting to learn and of course to be able to provide the best life for any animal and dog.
Thanks in advance! Love this channel
Very structured and informative as usual. Thank you for this video! You are awesome!
You are so very welcome. And thank you!
Imagine being rode on. That should tell u it’s not ethical. Anybody who says so is not taking into account the victims point of view. Based. Liked and shared.
Thank you so much, ImDemonWolf! Sharing is so very helpful :)
Excellent video. Riding horses is selfishly for the rider only and completely exploitative.
Thank you so much, Dori Hungerbuhler!
What a thorough SUPER-ASSESSMENT! #GenuisDeducting
Thank you so much, Mike! Also, for some reason I found your comments have been getting "Held for review" by UA-cam... Only just happened to find them in there. I've now whitelisted you across the whole channel so that hopefully won't happen again! (Oh, UA-cam!)
BTW, in the interest of being as inflammatory as possible, people might consider this question: do we have the right to exploit animals in order to advance science and/or to develop pharmaceuticals and medical procedures that will cure disease and save human lives.
I am a retired research professor, and so I know how animals are actually used by scientists. The bottom line is that they are regarded as objects, not as beings, and although the care for such animals has improved somewhat over the last 50 years, they are routinely killed or tormented during experiments that clearly hurt them. For example, I once knew a graduate student who was surgically attaching two rats together so he could see whether the one that was not fed would receive "satiety signals" through its blood when it's partner-victim was fed. Another colleague intentionally severed cats' spinal columns because he wanted to study spinal nerve regeneration. The cats received no anaesthetic, and they could often be heard in the hallways when they cried out in pain. I was once visiting a colleague's lab when a beagle casually walked into the room. About eight stainless steel tubes extended roughly 1/2" from the top of the beagles skull. My colleague explained that the beagle had been used in experiments during which warm and cold water was run through the tubes to see how the animals' brain was affected. The beagle was expected to die during the experiment, but since he beat the odds, they decided to adopt him as a pet.
I could go on for days. So is all of this justified? After all, such research is "good" for humans. But the cost is that we leave many millions of dead and hideously brutalized animals in our wake. I say it's wrong, and I say we should be prepared to die sooner rather than brutalize animals used in research. And no, we cannot replace research animals with "computer models" that will allow us to learn how animals work without actually harming them. If we haven't done the research on actual animals, we have no idea how to develop a proper model. Bottom line: science and medicine move forward by walking across the brutalized remains of countless animals. Period. Right or wrong?
Another question is whether people that ride lose something in themselves if they do not ask themselves "why?"
Thank you so much Emily! As a kid I rode horses 😢 but my favorite part that I went for was brushing them and eating sugarcubes together.
I was a vegetarian since I found out what meat was at age 6. I always asked the adults if the baby cow got milk or anyone got killed for eggs, and alas, they told me the myths of harmlessness. 😪
Then when I was 18 I really missed horses and went to a horse riding place to sign up. There I had an epiphany. Looking at them in their stall, I realized I had no right to manipulate them. I decided I didn't want to ride them. That same week I heard of the existence of veganism, and immediately did it! That was over 17 years ago.
So happy I had the honor to hear you speak at a vegfest once! Thank you for being the best of our species.❤
These I'm writing stories & cosplaying the elves of Tolkien in an accurate depiction (vegan) with my husband. ❤🐴🐷 ~Mariel
Before I watch, just wanted to say how shapely & defined your arms are looking 🥰 Thanks for all you do, Emily 💜
Ha! Well thank you :)
You are absolutely awesome!!!! Thank you!!
Well thank you!
Amazing video, very in-depth
Thank you so much, Noa Makhervax! I really appreciate it :) It was a HUGE undertaking for sure!
Great video! When horse riding gets brought up by nonvegans, I don’t discuss it that much because if someone doesn’t understand why it’s wrong to do all the horrific things done to animals in the food industry, they’ll struggle understanding why it’s wrong to treat horses like transport. Although I do talk about it with those who are already interested in going vegan
I think horse riding is one of the hardest topics for me personally, but I think you did a really good job of highlighting the important points! Horses cannot give informed consent- and if horse riding doesn't benefit them, if it's not something that they NEED, then why continue doing it? Everything we do to non-humans is for our own benefit. We domesticated them in the first place for humans to exploit. Before dogs were widely accepted as companions they were "working animals." Also, from the perception of an autistic person, horses definitely do not like being touched. However, similar to ABA therapy, horses can be trained to not resist and to accept it. I'll admit, for a long time I romanticized horseback riding and I tried to convince my mother to sign me up for lessons. But now I'm starting to see it for what it truly is- the exploitation of a non-human being who has been forced into a dependent relationship they cannot escape from. Let's be honest, horses will continue to need humans, but how we treat them is what matters. We should treat them as equals, as family. We do not and should not have to dominate them, if it were done to any other human/non-human animal it would be unacceptable (I guess camels and elephants are an exception...). It really boils down to personal pleasure, despite many advocates staunchly arguing it's not just about pleasure.
Great that you brought Ren in, she's amazing! Can't wait to listen to the Interview ❤
Yes, Ren is doing such incredible work! Interviewing her years ago really got me thinking about domestication in a much deeper way!