My 21 was a piece of crap with so many codes and fuel pump issues. They swapped it out for a 22 and I have 30,000 mile on it now and love it. No codes, but did have the fuel pump went out at 20,000. I’m smiling every time I ride it.
I had a triumph 2017 triumph t120. In 12,000km (around 10000 miles) I had shifting problems 3 times. Got rid of that lemon. Glad your newer pan and see.s to be doing well and Harley stepped up. Triumph never did.
I like the fact that the Pan America exists, and that Harley is willing to branch off and try something new. With a few tweaks, lower the center of gravity, maybe a lighter version, around 750cc, for under $15k, would be great.
I just want to see H-D go back to building Harleys. Not all Harleys were cruisers. In fact, only the Superglide models could really be called cruisers. The big touring bikes were not cruisers, and neither were the Sportsters. H-D did not make a single cruiser until 1971. Only 5 years later, Kawasaki came out with the first Japanese cruiser, the 1976 KZ900LTD. H-D made bikes for 68 years before coming out with a cruiser. And yet, for some reason, any time you mention H-D, the only thing everybody thinks of is cruisers. With bikes like the Pan America, the M8 engine, and getting rid of the Sportster, H-D has lost it's identity. Everybody makes adventure bikes. They are all the rage. There is no reason for H-D to make one. They should stick with what they have been doing forever. Offer an alternative to what everybody else is doing, not jumping on the bandwagon.
My last experience with Harley dealers was in 2009 when I bought Buell. Harley dealers were clueless about sport bike...could only talk baggers. 2023 same Harley salespeople were clueless regarding adventure bikes...could not tell me anything about the accessories like panniers.
I owned a '21 for two years. Wanted to love it but learned to hate it. I hated that every seat I tried pushed me forward into the tank. But the biggest problem was the bad starter clutch gear, which was responsible for all the mechanical problems I experienced. The starter clutch gear made it hard for the starter to spin the motor. It was like a car starting off in 2nd gear. The first failed start happened within 200 miles of ownership and started happening with greater frequency as the months went by. When the battery didn't have the juice to turn the starter, the starter let of a squealing noice before it quit. This generated a wide range of random fault codes. Eventually, the battery deteriorated to the point where a failed start put the bike into limp mode, generally far from home. Tried a lithium battery but it, too, succumbed to the electrical draw of the starter. Compounding this was the utter incompetence of the local HD dealership who denied there was even a problem. I had to bring it to another dealership to finally get the starter clutch repaired under warranty. Once fixed, the fault codes vanished and I never had a failed start again but by then the damage was done and I couldn't wait to scrape this bike off my shoe
And with tariffs in the 80s, the government kept them in business and stifled innovation in the US motorcycle market for 40 years. There’s a reason Harley makes the same bike year after year and over and over that’s decades behind the competition. They’re in their own time capsule. Except for their prices.
Had 2 1250S a 21 bought in 22, 4 breakdowns on 1500 km, was 7 months in the Workshop due to missing parts, then got it back and after 25km, breakdown... HD took it back and delivered a 23... , 600 km I really enjoyed it, then again, breakdown, Error Codes, limp Mode.. . I cleared the codes, stopped at a BMW dealer, went in and traded it in for a 1250 GSA... lost roughly 8000€, but never mind...the BMW runs without any issue until yet
Thanks for the candid review. As an off road adventurer myself, I think the bike is too heavy, too big. (and too expensive). I don't need a huge engine for off road. I went with a RE Himalayan.
I guess I am one of the lucky few that my Pan Am has only had one issue the fuel pump. I have 17k miles on mine and ridden it hard and long. I do agree with your complaints overall. It does lack the fit and finish of a bike at the price point.
I have a 2021 Pan America. I have ridden it to Deadhorse, Alaska (9000 Miles), down the Baja Peninsula, and to Sturgis this year (3500 miles). Other than a few very minor electrical issues (my engine light stays on) it has been a great bike. I really do ride the dirt roads when they are on my route. I am taking it in for my 25,000 mile tune up soon. With all that said, I am considering a different Adventure bike later this year. If they fix the issues with the Pan America, I can see coming back to it in a few years.
I’m kind of the same way. Yeah, there are things I didn’t like about the PA, but there are others that I absolutely loved. Maybe someday when they work out these issues, I’ll hop back on a Harley Adventure bike.
@@bardooh6808 That same issue was one of the problems that was driving me crazy. It is a "non-critical" issue is the reason that Harley doesn't fix it. They just reset it on the diagnostics screen on your computer. You can do the same thing. If you want to see what the problem is, go to the diagnostics screen and write down the fault codes and look them up with Google. You can reset them, but it will come back on after a few miles.
@@rso1411 Yep, i done this but i hate to have it on all the time cause if there is a problem anytime whit the bike i didnt notice it and maybe have some warranty problem, so i get it to dealer every some weeks to renew my repair order. ty
Sounds like you have a lemon version of the Pan America. I've not had the same problems with mine. I brought a 2022 Pan Am Special in March 2023, I've done 5,312 miles. I had a few issues at the start, with not having the latest software loaded and they replaced the starter clutch, but other than that it has been pretty good. I have replaced the seat with a Sargent seat, which is much more comfortable; and I replaced the screen with a low height screen, and fitted a deflector to the top, no helmet buffeting, it is perfect now. I use it mostly for road riding, weekend rides, commuting and a bit of dirt road riding, it has not let me down. I don't think the Pan Am is an off road bike, it is okay on dirt roads and can do trails, but it is a lot of work on tight trails, due to the weight. If you want to do trail riding, you need a smaller bike in my mind. It is a fantastic sports tourer, that can do dirt roads. I've been riding 50 years and 44 years on the road, I've done motocross, enduro and classic track racing. I love mountain roads, and I also ride a sidecar, which I've had for 34 years, fitted to a hotted up 1988 Lowrider.
Man! You’ve ridden a lot to know a lot! Agree about the PA being most a sport tourer. For most riders, anything over 400lbs and you going to need something more manageable off-road. My Honda CRF300l fits that roll nicely. I had a Corbin seat on my PA. Made riding much for fun. Now I want a bike with a side car 😂
I had a 2021 Pan America Special for 8 months and had to get rid of it. If I’m spending that much on a bike I expect basic reliability or the dealership being able to correct issues under warranty if needed. Weird spurious electronics glitches left me stranded a few times and I was afraid to take the bike far from home thinking it would fail to start. Its a fun bike and I could overlook some issues like the insane heat from the catalytic converter. But it was unreliable and the dealer didn’t have a clue about it. I got lucky that there was huge demand for used bikes in early 2022 so I didn’t lose that much selling it. I’ve since heard their value has sank like a stone. It’s a shame it was released with these issues. This isn’t a few lemons, if you look at Harley forums for most models everyone is posting about mods and custom parts. Pan America forums comments are mostly about problems with the bikes. I had a 2007 softail and now have a 2022 Road King Special that run perfectly and have never let me down so I’m not anti-Harley in any way.
Every time I looked in the forums it was all about issues. Never about mods or crazy long adventures. Like you, I just couldn’t trust it to go around the block, let alone around und the country.
I saw many of the same issues you saw with my PAS plusn having it stall going down the highway.That was probably due to the fuel pump squealing like a pig for the last 5k miles I had it. Part was always on backorder. I traded mine for a Road King Special. I'm happy to be back on the King.
Forget adventure riding, if you just buy this to go camping it is too big and heavy. Seen lots of big adv bikes go over fully loaded on off camber wet campsites, you just can't hold them when they start to fall over.
First of all, I agree with you that many motorcycles have far to much tech and this is a major source of problems. I much prefer a motorcycle with a little less tech that is easy to work on and inexpensive to maintain. Having said that you are being way to generous with H-D on the Pan America. When you are buying a vehicle from a company that brags about such things as fit and finish and good design integrity and charges a premium price for it, you should get a bike that reflects that. H-D has a big R&D department. I have trouble believing that many of these problems did not manifest themselves during the design and testing phase. They should have been resolved then; well before production and marketing. If the Japanese and most of the major European companies can do it, and do so at more reasonable pricing, certainly a "premium" brand USA company should also. I am not hating on Harley-Davidson, but the Pan America is a gilded turd. What you have experienced and many others is just plain wrong. These issues are not typical nuisances, they can impinge on the safety of the rider. In today's world, if you don't call this stuff out, it will just continue. I am looking for an ADV, but I will not even consider a Pan America.
Hope you didn’t take too much of a loss on the PA. I haven’t ridden one yet. I did sit on one and immediately knew they’re was no way I’d would ever be comfortable on that bike. The seating position felt contorted and everything was just too cramped for me.
Some loss, but not as bad as PA owners will moving forward. The resale value just fell off the cliff recently. There are dealers that are selling ones with lower miles than mine for less than I sold mine for. It’s crazy!
It's Harley, and we love it and hate it at the same time. :D And I guess that is why I keep on coming back to it. It's like that old Whiskey that you hate the taste of it, but when you walk away, you miss it again and coming back for another sip. (For 2021/2 Model owners - 2023 models I hear are quite more reliable...care for another shot?).
I had my Pan Am Special (BTW, I strongly hate the Dirt Glide moniker.. Just me, I know.) for a year and a half and over 11K miles. I ride 1000 mile loops from Humboldt County to San Luis Obispo County twice a month, It should have had around 15-16K, but it let me down so many times. it wouldn't start to take on a trip. I'd ride, stop to fuel, and it wouldn't start. The starter itself was a noisy cantankerous affair. Mine was one of the second tier Pan Am Specials that wasn't supposed to have the ARH. Yet, sometimes it would lower. Sometimes it would lower and not come back up. Oh, that side stand... it's ridiculous. Those were huge negatives in a bike that I'd ride to the middle of nowhere, until it became so unreliable that I couldn't take those rides on it. My dealer bought it back for a very good price. I was totally happy with my dealership. The positives. I didn't mind the fit & finish. The windshield is kinda wonky but I left it in one position and it did a fine job of protecting me at 5'8". The buttons did feel a bit cheap, especially the cruise control but they never broke or came loose or gave me the sticking issue, I guess I was lucky there. The bike was a total hoot to ride, when it ran. I was riding South on the 101 just North of Laytonville and got behind a semi and a pickup. The 101 has short areas where you can pass so I pass them. Right before going back into my lane ahead of the trucks I look at my mirror and then my speedo, 111mph and didn't feel like it at all. I chastised myself to slow down a bit but was in awe of the power. I'd tell the dealer's service techs and sales people that Harley needs to take all the superfluous electronics off the bike so it was reliable because they actually have a 150 hp dirt bike and that's what we really want. I bought a 2018 KTM 1290 from the dealership after they bought back the Pan Am. I only had it for three weeks. Great bike but it was mahoosive. Traded it for a KTM 890 S, and I've put 11,+++ miles on it in 8 1/2 months. I love the 890 even though the Pan Am made me skittish about all those electronics. The 890's dash went totally black on me on my first ride up from SLKO to Humboldt. The bike kept running though and after I stopped to fuel up it hasn't done that again. I mentioned it to the KTM dealer on a service, maybe they fixed it. That's been the only issue. The bike doesn't have that super bike top end like the Pan Am or 1290 but it is enough to keep up with Bay Area traffic at 80-85 mph and that's all I need out of a bike. BTW, the 890 was awesome at the Giant Loop Rally in SE Oregon in early June, its a highly capable off-road bike, within reason. I have a Husqvarna 501 S for unreasonable rides. ;) I still love my 2017 Ultra Classic. I've had six Harleys, I'm not a basher just relaying my experience.
I’ve had a 22 Pan Am Special for 11k miles. Half of those are off road. I love the bike! The only issue I’ve had was the common radiator hose issue being too close to the header which was fixed under warranty. I hope the motor co keeps investing in the platform because the really did a great job entering one of the most competitive segments in motorcycling. It took guts to do what they did and I feel good about getting behind them even if the bike isn’t perfect.
I really really want H-D to succeed with this bike and in the ADV market. Yeah, it has its flaws and most bikes do depending on the rider’s needs, but I truly hope H-D are leaders in this segment in the future.
Actually, BMW's K1600 series had "starter button" issues early on. It seems leaving the bike out in the hot sun would cause the electrical ribbon wire in the grip assembly to expand enough to lose contact, causing the buttons to fail. In the shade or cool temps (like in the dealer's shop) everything would work fine, they could never reproduce the problem. Drove BMW crazy (along with K1600 owners!). Finally, some sharp riders put 2 & 2 together & figured out a quick "in-the-field" fix was to lay a zip-lock bag filled with ice on the grip assembly to cool it off, allowing the bike to start. The K1600 cost a lot more than the PA! Of course, BMW did get it all sorted out eventually.
That’s possibly the one I was thinking of, though in my head I thought it was a different BMW bike with a starter button stuck down like my issue with the PA. Yeah, if you get the Grand America, it’s definitely more expensive than the Pan America.
Sorry to hear you had a bad go with your PA. Im really enjoying mine. A fun machine. One thing they dont like, low voltage. Low voltage will cause a lot of various issues.
I have a 2021 Pan America and it's fantastic and I have no desire to sell it. Most people that buy a Harley, then change the seat, change the handlebars or install risers, change the screen, change the foot pegs, do a Stage 1 or 2 - just to make the bike fit them. If you really want a cruiser, then don't buy an adv bike. You just bought the wrong bike for you and then whine about it not fitting you, you didn't change anything like just about every Harley owner does after buying a traditional HD and as far as the dicky windscreen on the PAm goes (and I agree HD should have done better), the issue you mentioned is easily rectified by installing a Madstad windshield system.
Exactly! I don’t take this personally, but, yeah, 100% my opinion on the bike and my riding style. It’s also not ADV vs cruiser. The Africa Twin is a great fit for me and it has no issues starting every time.
There’s a reason why the BMW GSA is number one. I’m also happy that HD joined the fray, But to this 3 time GSA owner it looks and feels cheap. Should’ve gotten a Tenere. Nice video.
100% agree about the GS. Now that I’ve accepted that I’ll never take a big adventure bike on anything more challenging than a gravel road, I think a GS might be in my stable at some point down the road.
@@GreatEgret Even the regular GS at 500 plus pounds before accessories is heavy relatively speaking. At nearly 60 years of age I’m thinking about sub 500lbs for my next bike.
52,000 miles on my T7 in 2 1/2 years, about a third of that in dirt. No growing pains, no problems. I really wish Harley would make a good adventure bike.
I test tode a 24. Really liked the feel of it. Smooth and rider triangle was very comfortable. I wondering if they have fixed all the issues. Really would like one
Im looking at purchasing this bike. 2023 year, should I run or buy it? Have these issues been resolved? I have read that 2023 year all electeical issues were ironed out.
I Believe the Ducati Multistrada has adaptive ride control. I was going to purchase a Pan America until I researched the used market (something I always do when researching a bike) and noticed that the Pan America deprecated about 30 % in less than a year. Did more research by joining owners’ groups and found that the electrical gremlins and other little annoyances made the Pan America not the bike for me. I really tried hard to like the PA, but will all the problems I will wait a few years for HD to get things right.
Good plan. Especially because of the depreciation. I sold mine at just the right time. Looks like the 2024 Africa Twin will be getting adaptive cruise control as well. That’ll be stiff competition for Ducati, BMW, and KTM if Honda can keep the price point at or below $23K.
Triumph just added a feature to the Tiger 1200 where you hold down the home button and it lowers the suspension an inch. Current owners can get an update from the dealer for free. Granted it doesn’t raise up and down at every stop like the PA.
Oh, I didn’t know that. That’s a step in the right direction for shorter adv riders. In a way it would nice to have control over when it lowers rather than have the IMU do it for you.
I've been looking at the PA now for about 3 months really like the bike and have ridden several, but I'm waiting for some longer term reviews on the 24's lots of changes and reliability issues with first 3 model years. If you are thinking about any bike I recommend renting one for a few days before buying it can give you a much better idea on longer rides than dealer test rides.
Here to support a fellow motorcyclist on YT! So the main reason you sold it is because it wasn’t the right bike for your type of riding? Why did you buy it in the first place may I ask? The electronic issues were frustrating for me too, but the dealer resolved them with a visit or two and I’ve been loving the bike. I’ve owned over 100 bikes and miss a few of them, but I’ve found the Pan Am the best for putting miles on.
It’s not the type of riding, it’s the bike. I’ll still ride big adventure bikes like the Africa Twin. I bought it because I thought I’d love it. Turns out I didn’t and I gave it nearly a year. It’s a lot like dating and marriage, what you thought you loved sometimes doesn’t work out. I’m sure you understand that having owned over 100 bikes.
@@GreatEgret The Africa Twin is a nice bike, just not very exciting. Totally get not loving it. I test ride lots of bikes in search of that “loving feeling” and usually end up with those that are most exciting to ride. I’d probably be considered a forever bachelor that loves playing the field when it comes to owning bikes as I’m always chasing the exciting ones LOL. Good for us there’s endless choices for us to find “love” in the bike world! Have fun on your search for the next “love”
I completely understand your frustration. Growing with a new bike model is sometimes challenging. I make it a practice of not buying the first couple of years or anything until they have a chance to work out the issues. However if you were to jump in and buy in the first few years you almost expect to ride the issue curve. BMW just brought out their new redesigned 1300 GS and it has the same or more issues yet these people have the 1250 GS so worked out that it’s not even funny. New model comes with new issues. Situational awareness is everything sometimes. The stuck button would have been an easy fix. Bike under warranty means I go drop it off and they replace it. Having purchased a multitude of new bikes from Harley this has also been the case. This is also why I purchase new bikes so I don’t have to invent fixes like graphite powder and such. I do get what you are saying about “I just want a bike I can ride”. Believe me I’m not beating you up here. Harley is the company you want to have when dealing with this stuff as they always backed up their product for me and made it right. Large dealer network and guys trained to work on motorcycles not snowmobiles. From your video I get the impression that you must have gauged the Pan correctly. Too big of a bike for what you want to do. You show yourself riding a much smaller bike in the end. We live and learn. Best of Luck to you and keep riding.
Thanks, man. Yeah just wasn’t the bike for me. It’s not the size or weight that made sell it. I have an Africa Twin that is almost as heavy and much taller. It was the riding position (just not right for my style as an adv rider) and all the issues.
I did a couple test rides on the Pan America even down some gravel roads. I really enjoyed the bike but it was too much power and weight for where I am in my riding career. I opted for the V85TT for my adventure touring wants.
The Pan Am was too tall went I went to try one. I too ended up with the V85TT. Love it. I have a Honda Fury also. Love me a shaft drive. Kinda glad I didn't actually ride the HD though. Might have liked that power too much.
I have a 2022 Pan Am made in Thailand and it has less than 6K on it and it is on it's 4th battery, 2nd start switch module, 2nd fuel pump, now it is in the dealer for 1 1/2 months with starter problem, a lot of valve train noise, chain rattle in motor when hot at idle, heated grips quit, rear tire pressure sender not working and an oil leak between the cylinders. The dealer here in the Philippines said he was going to cancel my warranty because I put on 2 watt led spots and changed my own oil and filter. I found out he cannot cancel my warranty for any reason and fi I change my own oil and keep the receipts and mark the millage in my owners manual I can do it but they have never given me an owners manual. I am now filling with the Department Of Trade and Industry here for a full refund. Don't buy one of these bikes.
I owned a 2022 Nightster (same engine) and it was nothing but problems. If Harley Davidson can fix the software problems it would be a great bike. I got rid of it and I purchased a 2023 Street Bob (very simple-no electronic features).
I don't own one, but wasn't there also the issue with placement of battery (somewhere down low)? It's a no go for an adventure bike fmpov... Makes crossing waters impossible 😳
Did the same thing, had the same issues. I loved the bike and seeing it made me smile every time. But having a first year model, it had to many flaws.. I bought the RG 2024, hopefully again an proper HD
When they first came out in 2021 I wanted one so bad but I knew not to buy one so I didn’t. I bought a Triumph tiger instead which I didn’t like but I kept it for a couple years and then just recently bought a 2023 and that seems to be holding up just fine for now, I love riding it. I love looking at it. I love everything about it. It sucks though like you said the front end is crooked. They welded the fairing mount to the head tube and there is absolutely no way to fix it. Eventually you get used to it being crooked, and the only problem I have is that the keyless ignition doesn’t work. I’m any of the 2023s and Harley can’t fix it. I did find it back door, though that if you activate the left turn signal upon initial start up of the dash that the key code will appear on the screen and allow you to start the bike without the key. I learned that from someone on Facebook. Otherwise the bike fits me great I’m 6 foot one and it is the most comfortable bike and I love it and for me I think it off road really well. The right height is higher than you think. Remember, it has the adaptive height when you stopped bike low but when you get moving the bike raises and it raises to a point where it has plenty of height to do whatever you wanna do off-road.
The PA is a bike I would own and be riding right now…..if I had any confidence at all that Harley could build a reliable and worthwhile “modern” motorcycle, but they cannot and that’s a shame. Unfortunately, because Harley has refused to step outside their comfort zone for 100 years and allowed literally every, single, other, motorcycle manufacturer to surpass them in technology and power has greatly diminished their ability to build a reliable and comparable modern type of motorcycle. Maybe in 100 years of building rev max bikes with technology they’ll finally be trustworthy? I do love Harley and that’s why I’m hard on them! DO BETTER! I own and absolutely love my ‘21 FXLRS but I would love to have something modern and FAST AS STINK with the Harley Davidson logo on the tank!! But until they prove they can build a modern motorcycle that is anything close to worthy of the outrageous price tag? Count me out…….and I hate to say that!
Well, I read every comment here and I must admit that I am torn. Been riding a 2022 PAS since new last June and aside from a blank TFT sceen episode it has been trouble free for almost 18,000 miles now. That being said I ran thru the online trade in deal on HDs website and low and behold. The PAs value has dropped significantly. I am On the fence here. Trade this spring while its still worth something or ride it for the remaining three years and 9 months of full extended factory warranty. By then it will have many more miles on it and be practically worthless . What will time and miles bring? Lots of issues maybe? As stated by one of the comments will this thing be discontinued and go the way of Harley/Buells. Extinct. I really love this machine. So much so that I have adapted to its idiosyncrasies and annoying side stand. But Im 67 and really dont want to end up with a 560 lb lawn ornament that I cant get parts or dealer support from when Im 70. That being said Im really interested in the Low Rider S. Bare bones low to the ground machine that handles well for a cruiser and makes plenty of power for me. For long haul I'll just do the detachable deal for baggage. Love the ST but too damn expensive. All of you folks who commented here all stated your opinions intelligently and not based them on a hatred for the brand. So, I would appreciate any opinion, advice on my dilemma on this matter. Hope that you all respond including Great Egret. Will not be offended by any negative opinons as I want to hear them all . I will take all into consideration Thank you all. Awaiting your comments.
Motorcycles and all the gear, mods and farkles that come with it are ridiculously expensive. Don’t listen to any motorcycling UA-camr that tells you one of the benefits of riding a motorcycle is all the money you’ll save. Including yours truly in probably my third or fourth video I did on this channel way back when. It can be true, but only if you buy a CRF300L (75 mpg) and leave it stock. Truthfully, most of us will spend an ungodly amount of money on the sport we love. And I say, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. Paul, my advice is if you enjoy the snot out of that bike, and it looks like you are after 18K miles in three months, and the bike is showing no signs of issues like I and others experienced, ride the PA until the wheels fall off. Then get a Low Rider S. Motorcycles are one of those luxury items in our lives that shouldn’t be considered investments unless buying and selling them is part of career. It’s okay to use every dollar you spent on it to have a ton of fun. With that being said, watch the video that comes out tomorrow. I talk about technology and motorcycles. That bare bones and plenty of power of the LRS is exactly what the riding experience should be in my opinion. It’s why I’m looking for the right softail for me before next riding season starts. I hope others will respond here and provide possibly another perspective.
Dude, i traded my lowrider s for the panny, i'm 55, way more of an enjoyable ride, but like every other Harley there is you end up replacing things and it's the same with this.... I listened to my dealer when I bought it, and remember they always told me to keep it on the tender even in the middle of summer, so I do that...... I don't have as many miles as some people but I'm coming up on my 5000 mile service in a couple of weeks Aside from going block a couple times I've gotten my updates when I'm supposed to and let HD work on it, I feel I've got a good dealer and I have no plans to get rid of it....
@GreatEgret Thank for the response. Loved "ride the wheels off of it" . Yes I think that I will do just that. I have a very Pan Am friendly dealership. The lead mechanic also owns and rides a 2021. Thank you for your informative input. I am subscriber to your channel. Its good to have you back.
@panam_ed1820 Thank for your reply. My dealer is also Pan Am friendly and savvy. My mechanic there is also an owner and rider of a 2021 PAS. Yessir the smart charger is plugged at all times. Think I will keep it and to qoute Great Egret " ride it until the wheels fall off". I really love the bike. Thanks again
@@GreatEgret you hit it, they are a want, not a need...but with that said, the riding position with the right seat and risers is hard to beat...and the handling stock is superb....
32,000 kms on my 21 Pan Am including an around Australia trip (14,000 kms). I had constant non-start issues, fixed by free replacement of stater clutch. Still throws codes, so I clear them (never had limp mode). Mate has a KTM 1290 that throws heaps of codes, and guess what? Have to go to dealer to get cleared. I love mine; great in sports mode and customisable off road modes. Sorry for your issues but you might be in the minority. Many of the negative comments are non-owners rehashing another non-owner’s comments I reckon
Man, I love hearing success stories like this and there definitely is some truth about negative comments from non-owners. But for me and others, the issues are real and there are a lot of PA owners that have had them. I’m not bashing Harley or blaming the bike. It was a great bike when it ran.
I bought a 2023 Pan AM, no doubt it is fast, fun and unique. However, it broke two days after I bought it, shut down and screen went black and wouldn't start. Goes to dealer, get it back. Broke immediately again. I lose excitement and trust for the bike. I then ride it around town for about 500 miles. It's doing okay so I decide to ride from NC to IA when my Mom had health issues. The entire way kept having issues. Audio controls and GPS quit working, had ride mode failure with warnings and faults. Ride modes no longer functioning. Then bike would occasionally not start. I took to the IA Harley dealer. They had it a month and a rep came out from Harley. Said nothing was wrong with it. They gave me some BS answers and just reset everything. I had to leave it there since I couldn't trust it. Then had to pay to have it transported to NC. IMMEDIATELY after unloading the bike wouldn't start and had faults. Goes to dealer again and they clear faults and reset it and say it is good. I have pics, videos, documentations and everything. After making the 1000 mile trip to Iowa the bike Has 2k miles on it. Harley won't buy it back, help me get in to another bike, won't even offer more warranty. NOTHING! To add to their poor customer service I have owned 4 Harleys and bought 2 new ones about a year apart. I'd think at 34 years old they'd want to keep me as a customer. I have loved the brand my entire life and no longer have any love or respect for them. Including buying a Pan Am special, with hard bags, fog lights, exhaust, axle guards and many add ons and extended warranty I am $29,991 invested. I asked the dealer what they'd give me for the bike to trade into something else. They offered me $9k after all this, so after getting stuck with a lemon I'd have to take that big of a hit......I hired a lawyer. Hopefully I can get out of this nightmare. I am flying to Milwaukee next week to go to corporate too and try to discuss, I hit a wall with customer service and they won't let me talk to anyone above my "rep." I have never felt so helpless and stuck with a poor quality and expensive purchase/product.
Looking at the switchgear looks like the dashboard of a 747 Jumbo. Interested to see what you will buy next please please don't sell your sportster 😢.ride and be safe Ron from Ireland.
The Pan America is a bike that I liked .. past tense 😂. Honestly, seeing some engine issues with other people’s bikes in addition to what you have mentioned .. made me pull the trigger and exchange it for a Softail 😬 which I eventually exchanged for a Baggers 😎
The main reason why you had so many issues is because the 21 and the 22s were the trouble bikes out of the Pan America lineup they have constantly been making improvements and working all the bugs out of them and the 23s and the 24s are a lot better just don't buy first or second gen pan America's I am actually planning on getting a 24 Pan America later this year and also plan to attempt an iron butt challenge on it but I fully understand that you had a lot of issues with your 22 Pan America but as I said before the 2021 and 2022 we're very problematic because they were the first of the new bikes
I have a 2022 and I agree with the electrical issues. Biggest piece of junk. Limp mode everyweek. Will not crank in the cold. Will not turn over on first press of the ignition switch. I replaced the BCM twice already. The bike has randomly shut down while I was riding. ARH being stuck on the tallest position. The fob key runs through batteries. I replaced mine twice in a year. Fob will not unlock bike unless you wiggle it over the seat. The coolant hose busted because it was too close to the exhaust from factory. Randomly goes into neutral when you up shift hard. If you hook up your bluetooth headset to the infotainment system it will constantly cut in and out. Overall the worst bike I have purchased. I should of kept my road king.
I didn’t hold it down. I’d just push it like you said. It got stuck down. Even if I did hold it down, it should pop right back up, so holding it down has nothing to do with the fact that it would get stuck.
You touch on a point that is so underrated… and people including me, waste and wasted so much money because they did not clearly understood what kind of rider they are …
@@GreatEgret yes we are our own worst enemies by not being honest with ourselves , it is a saddle point in the video that is crucial point in life in general
So far it seems fine. I haven't had much electrical issues with the 2023. Just the one time after parking a long time the fuel gauge wasn't there. All I did was shut down and restart the problem. So I haven't had a problem, but then there is only 1100 km on it.
Good review. I hope HD gets the gremlins sorted out. Sticky start button sounds like a real pain. HD wouldn't fix it? I have never had a Harley but keep saying maybe one day. Problem is no money and running out of years.
Thanks! It seems the 2023 Pan Americas are better, but now there are a ton of used ones out there and the value has dropped significantly. When I took it in for the 1000-mile service, they said they fixed the sticky button, but it kept happening. I gave up about 1200 miles later. I have the same no money and running out of years problem on many of the bikes I want.
I watched for a few minutes and got the picture. No way, Jose. I really only miss one bike; a BMW K1300GT. I had a 1600GT but that was too much bike for me, as great as it was, too.
🤣🤣🤣🤣I had a brand new bmw gs that kept going limp so I lemon lawed it because it was in the shop 8 months out of the 9 I owned it so I went to test ride a new Pan America and it wouldn't even start, went to the next one, dead too, never did get to ride one. I ended up getting a DR650 to go with my Road King which have been my most dependable bikes. I'm about done with electronic crap.
That’s exactly it, man! I’m going to sound like an old man here, but I’ll say it anyway. This push to get riders into tech while riding is taking away the riding experience. We ride to get away from all the tech. Let’s leave it off the bike.
The in/off switch that was stuck, ever bring it to the dealer to sew of they would fix it? I'm a new PA owner and love it so far. Although, I'm nervous about some issues as you describe coming up eventually. I feel harley needed to change up their models cause not as many people are buying bikes, us old people are aging and some of us just can't ride anymore. The new generation isn't buying as many bikes as our generation did. So good for harley trying to get into different markets.
I plan on buying a 2025 model, used, in 2030 :P If they can improve the reliability, and maybe a slight face lift (never got to love the front angle), I would seriously consider buying one (the first time I have any interest for an HD). Edited: Wow going through the comments I don't think I've ever seen so many fuel pump failures on a recent bike with such low mileage...
I have a Australian delivered pan and it’s almost 2 years old with 1400 kilometres on it I have had numerous problems with the electrics Harley Aus have done nothing to help with extra warranties and the like it has turned me away from the brand as a whole the bike cost $34000 now is only worth $22000
I really like this bike and want one. My local dealer has two 23 models that they have marked down to $17,500. The electrical gremlins keep me from buying one though. It seems to be hit or miss on whether you get a good one or one with problems. I just hate to take that chance. I don't ride off-road and would mainly use one as a cruiser and touring bike.
You’re not alone with your fears about the electrical gremlins. It’s definitely hit or miss with the PA. You’re also not alone with not riding a bike like this off-road. Only the most skilled adv riders can do that. There are very few that are. $17,500 is a good price for a new 2023. I paid $22,500 for mine and sold it for $15,500.
I have a Triumph Tiger 900, and it is a great bike but I wish it was lighter for off-road. I tried a Pan America and found the same of the rider triangle. I could not get comfortable at all. I had the same problem with a BMW 1200 RT. Legs too cramped. I am glad Harley made the bike, and I hope they continue to iterate on it. And yes, I would like to see a lighter one. That little CRF is as GREAT bike to learn off-road on for sure.
Man, sometimes I don’t like the low power of the CRF, buts that mostly because I’ve had so many bikes with much more power. But off-road it’s genuinely a pleasure to ride this little bike.
unfortunately for HD, the PA is plagued with too many issues and sales are going to tank to the point where it will be put out of production. They can’t compete against, BMW, Triumph, KTM and Ducati with an overpriced, half baked product. The only ones who will still be riding this bike are the ones who are underwater in payments because the HD dealer tacked on thousands over MSRP. Glad you got out of it before it became a worthless paper weight.
I’ve been watching the resale prices. They are dropping like crazy. Especially in the last two months since I sold mine. There’s an independent dealership about 90 minutes from me selling a used 2022 with about 400 miles on it for $15k!
I have hated the Pan America since I first saw a picture of it. I might not have if it had been made by anyone else but H-D. Since I was a teenager, H-D bikes have been a dream for me. I loved the way they looked, felt, and sounded. But I could never afford a new one. In 2003 I bought a really nice low mileage 1989 FXRS Low Rider. My first Harley, I still have it, and still love it. It is everything a Harley is supposed to be. Then about 5 years ago I bought a 2006 Sportster 1200L to go with it. I love it too. These bikes are what Harley Davidson means to me. The Pan America represents what is wrong with H-D, and the direction they are going in. They ruined their bigger road bikes with the awful M8 engine, which reminds me of the 1985 Honda Goldwing I used to have a long time ago. Smooth, quiet, and over refined. They completely got rid of the Sportster. But even before the M8, and before they got rid of the Sportster, they started painting most of their bikes flat black. To me Harley has always meant LOTS of chrome, and bright shiny paint. Both my older Harleys have that. The newer ones look like they were dipped in a vat of flat black. The Pan America is the bike that most clearly reminds me of the decline of H-D. Even it is available in flat black. It doesn't look, sound, or feel like a Harley. It's really sad to see a company that has survived for well over 100 years, the great depression, the Japanese motorcycle invasion, and 2 world wars, finally going down the drain.
Sorry to hear the PA didn't work for you. Ultimately, it's you weighing plus and minus items. If any vehicle doesn't work, sell it to allow other to enjoy it. A minus item for you could be a non issue to a new owner. It is what it is.
If anyone wants to buy it it’s available at a non-Harley powersports dealership in Madison, WI. I would love for someone else to enjoy this bike and tell me how much they love it.
You were brave to buy a PAS before the bugs have been worked out. I'm still waiting However, your points are well taken. Meanwhile other brands are looking better.
I posted a video of me test riding the PanAm, and you can see right at the start of the test ride it randomly shuts off on me. Bike had like 112miles on it, brand new. Not sure what was up, but I'm pulling up to leave the parking lot and it stalls, I try to restart it and just poof gone like an old apple OSX computer. Also I find it bit funny you said it doesn't feel like a bike that HD would make, when one of my comments about the bike is that it captures a harley feel. Opinions are funny, lol. I want to like the Pan Am, but it's not a comfy ride for me, and it'd have to be a main bike at that price tag. I want a 2022~23 Versys650 more because it's a great looking bike comfier, and a lot cheaper, with easily swappable wheels. Im Glad HD build the Pan Am, but its not the bike for me.
I've been more than comprehensive with HD and new stuff with my 2018 Softail ... I really like this bike but I'm not going through this again. Maybe in a few years if the 2024 are really ironed out (I call BS on the Moco saying this to discourage the used market)
I'd like a Pan America, Lots of interesting features. Reliability? I bought a GS. I hope they get it sorted. Until they do its not a bike I can afford.
You might as well take a goldwing off road.600 lb off road bike? not anywhere I ride!I do want to see if I can convince one to race me through the woods title for title on my Dr 650 but I've yet to see one not on black top around here.wait till you come to a tree across the trail,Imma go right over it,dont know what that thing is gonna do.and as far as highway riding,pretty sure the fjr will shut em down there no problem.whoever says one bike does everything is lying to you.if you do multiple types of riding get multiple bikes and a toy hauler if necessary.youll probably be in the hospital after wrestling that thing ariund in the woods all day,especially after you drop it a few times.what kind of crap is this!I mean theres a guy on here ripping an fjr through the jungle.just because its posdible dont mean it'll be fun!
You made one of the best choices in your motorcycle life! I have a 2021 ATAS as well. I love it while riding it and think about riding it when I’m not.
I sold it to a dealership for $16K. They listed it for $19,700 and couldn’t sell it. I think they dropped it down below what they paid me for and sold it.
Most Americans buy ADV bikes for the same reasons they buy Jeep Wranglers with 35's, pickup trucks, 4Runners instead of mini-vans... the image of ruggedness. The US buyer wants that rugged image to try and forget we are mostly a bunch of automatons working for corporations to pay our high debt loads living in our cardboard box cookie cutter houses. In the Rubicons, Bronco's, F150's, 4Runners, we get to play pretend that we are free, independent, and tough.
I have read every single comment here and it's obvious that there are problems with the PA. I just wish that the manufacturer and manufacturers in general would read into your site and others. The insight they would gather is priceless. Why they are building these monstrosities that nobody really wants is bejond me. I'm 5'8 and don't feel comfortable on any of the big adventure bikes. I know why they are called adventure bikes, they are an adventure to own.. I own a BMW 80GS from the late 80's which serves well to this day, carburettor and all, no electronics except ignition. These bikes didn't come with the moniker adventure bike 😉
I test drove one to see if I liked it better than my 2020 ATAS DCT. I do like the PanAM but it's definitely not a better bike than my Honda. Even though it's the same price.
Wow...Was thinking of getting a Pan American...i'm 69, owned Harley's since i was 15ys old...(with the exception of a 1986 Suzuki Calvacade and 1979 Suzuki GS850...dam i miss those!)...but after hearing of all the issues of this bike, and i sure don't want to be stranded in the middle of nowhere, i might as well pay ⅓ the price and buy the new Royal Enfield...Low tech, simple to work on, now water cooled and it's 450cc now, light and nimble to safely navigate the backroads...i think it would be a better and cheaper way to enter this ADV Touring...
I couldn't even get the Pan American off the kickstand XD I sat on the new Suzuki 800 DE and centered on the bike. Neither leg could touch the ground except the very tippy toe edge of the rubber on my boots lol standing off to one side. I couldn't get the bike upright which is not ideal. I think the KLR 650S is the only adventure bike I can actually ride XD
@@GreatEgret I have like a 29 inch inseam so you can only imagine lol but I want an adventure bike I can take cross country. Himalayan's not really good for that
Ducati and BMW had adaptive ride height long before Harley copied it. But to be fair, very altruistic and dam fine of Harley to make a gateway adventure bike to get Harley riders into the adventure genre - once they have sold their PA and got a BMW GS, Honda Africa twin, Yamaha T7 etc etc etc that is.....
What bikes of BMW and Ducati had adapted ride height before Harley put it on the PA? The closest thing to it is BMWs 3-and 4-series cars. That’s not the same thing really.
2 brand new bikes for sponsored riders blown motors in 40 miles . servos in motor, you won't here about it because there sponsored, failed starters , electronic issues , we a had a guy loan a rider his PA on a baja ride so it would die once more to lemmon it, stators there's the suspenssion sag issues. its a bummer honestly. i like the Honda Africa Twin much more, but was pulling for the PA. @@GreatEgret
As this bike rolled out and read all the rave reviews, I said then I'll wait to hear from actual buyers after they get thru 10k or more miles. I didn't think the PAm would be great overall. It seems I was right, By 2023 many buyers are reporting many details of the quality of big & low levels that should not be on a $22-25k machine. I had similar quality deficiencies on my new '72 Harley that I just sold. Since 2005 all my long rides were on my 1250 BMW!
@@GreatEgret-Cool I think you'll really like its power, technology & comfort you should be in much cooler weather than I was in Jun-Sep months a few years ago.
With a 19-in front and 17 in rear it's a joke to call it an adventure bike tire choice is very limited and it won't do anything well except gravel roads
I’m not one to compliment the Pan America. The bike is a joke, but wheel size isn’t one of its issues. The R1200/1250/1300 GS has the exact same 19 front/17/rear setup and there are plenty of tires to choose from. Now Harley claims that you need to go to the dealership to have the ecu flashed when changing to an off-road tire. I don’t know how true that is.
Great video and very informative, I was looking to buy a Pan America but your honest comments have made me think again, I don't want to go off road ,I do more touring but I don't want a purely touring HD cause they weigh too much and as I am getting older and weaker the enjoyment subsides the more you worry about "can I pick this thing up if it falls" Some of my friends have the Pan Am and have suffered the same if not more glitches than you so it seems to have quite some problems that should not be present on such an expensive bike . It looks like I will stick to my Sport Glide.
My 21 was a piece of crap with so many codes and fuel pump issues. They swapped it out for a 22 and I have 30,000 mile on it now and love it. No codes, but did have the fuel pump went out at 20,000. I’m smiling every time I ride it.
I had a triumph 2017 triumph t120. In 12,000km (around 10000 miles) I had shifting problems 3 times. Got rid of that lemon. Glad your newer pan and see.s to be doing well and Harley stepped up. Triumph never did.
Same here with my 22
I like the fact that the Pan America exists, and that Harley is willing to branch off and try something new. With a few tweaks, lower the center of gravity, maybe a lighter version, around 750cc, for under $15k, would be great.
I couldn’t agree more with what you said here. Especially a lighter version under $15K. I might this and similar comments in an upcoming video.
I just want to see H-D go back to building Harleys. Not all Harleys were cruisers. In fact, only the Superglide models could really be called cruisers. The big touring bikes were not cruisers, and neither were the Sportsters. H-D did not make a single cruiser until 1971. Only 5 years later, Kawasaki came out with the first Japanese cruiser, the 1976 KZ900LTD. H-D made bikes for 68 years before coming out with a cruiser. And yet, for some reason, any time you mention H-D, the only thing everybody thinks of is cruisers. With bikes like the Pan America, the M8 engine, and getting rid of the Sportster, H-D has lost it's identity. Everybody makes adventure bikes. They are all the rage. There is no reason for H-D to make one. They should stick with what they have been doing forever. Offer an alternative to what everybody else is doing, not jumping on the bandwagon.
My last experience with Harley dealers was in 2009 when I bought Buell.
Harley dealers were clueless about sport bike...could only talk baggers. 2023 same Harley salespeople were clueless regarding adventure bikes...could not tell me anything about the accessories like panniers.
I owned a '21 for two years. Wanted to love it but learned to hate it. I hated that every seat I tried pushed me forward into the tank. But the biggest problem was the bad starter clutch gear, which was responsible for all the mechanical problems I experienced.
The starter clutch gear made it hard for the starter to spin the motor. It was like a car starting off in 2nd gear. The first failed start happened within 200 miles of ownership and started happening with greater frequency as the months went by. When the battery didn't have the juice to turn the starter, the starter let of a squealing noice before it quit. This generated a wide range of random fault codes. Eventually, the battery deteriorated to the point where a failed start put the bike into limp mode, generally far from home. Tried a lithium battery but it, too, succumbed to the electrical draw of the starter.
Compounding this was the utter incompetence of the local HD dealership who denied there was even a problem. I had to bring it to another dealership to finally get the starter clutch repaired under warranty.
Once fixed, the fault codes vanished and I never had a failed start again but by then the damage was done and I couldn't wait to scrape this bike off my shoe
They say there’s a sucker born every minute, and those are the people who keep Harley Davidson in business
And with tariffs in the 80s, the government kept them in business and stifled innovation in the US motorcycle market for 40 years. There’s a reason Harley makes the same bike year after year and over and over that’s decades behind the competition. They’re in their own time capsule. Except for their prices.
Had 2 1250S a 21 bought in 22, 4 breakdowns on 1500 km, was 7 months in the Workshop due to missing parts, then got it back and after 25km, breakdown... HD took it back and delivered a 23... , 600 km I really enjoyed it, then again, breakdown, Error Codes, limp Mode.. . I cleared the codes, stopped at a BMW dealer, went in and traded it in for a 1250 GSA... lost roughly 8000€, but never mind...the BMW runs without any issue until yet
I lost just about the same amount when I sold my Pan America. It’s a fun bike to ride, just has too many issues.
My ‘18GSA has been a beast thus far w zero problems(my ‘10 GS was faultless as well)
Thanks for the candid review. As an off road adventurer myself, I think the bike is too heavy, too big. (and too expensive). I don't need a huge engine for off road.
I went with a RE Himalayan.
That Himalayan is great little bike.
Did the front end break off yet?
Did the front end break off yet?
Did the front end break off yet?
Had to Lemon Law mine. Sad because that was the best bike I ever owned until all the issues. 9300 miles and it was unridable.
I guess I am one of the lucky few that my Pan Am has only had one issue the fuel pump. I have 17k miles on mine and ridden it hard and long. I do agree with your complaints overall. It does lack the fit and finish of a bike at the price point.
I have a 2021 Pan America. I have ridden it to Deadhorse, Alaska (9000 Miles), down the Baja Peninsula, and to Sturgis this year (3500 miles). Other than a few very minor electrical issues (my engine light stays on) it has been a great bike. I really do ride the dirt roads when they are on my route. I am taking it in for my 25,000 mile tune up soon. With all that said, I am considering a different Adventure bike later this year. If they fix the issues with the Pan America, I can see coming back to it in a few years.
I’m kind of the same way. Yeah, there are things I didn’t like about the PA, but there are others that I absolutely loved. Maybe someday when they work out these issues, I’ll hop back on a Harley Adventure bike.
Have problem here whit yellow engine indicator always on. I have updated software but still there. Any idea why is this?
@@bardooh6808 clear the trouble codes. Then see if the CEL comes back on. If it does, read what the trouble code is.
@@bardooh6808 That same issue was one of the problems that was driving me crazy. It is a "non-critical" issue is the reason that Harley doesn't fix it. They just reset it on the diagnostics screen on your computer. You can do the same thing. If you want to see what the problem is, go to the diagnostics screen and write down the fault codes and look them up with Google. You can reset them, but it will come back on after a few miles.
@@rso1411 Yep, i done this but i hate to have it on all the time cause if there is a problem anytime whit the bike i didnt notice it and maybe have some warranty problem, so i get it to dealer every some weeks to renew my repair order. ty
Sounds like you have a lemon version of the Pan America. I've not had the same problems with mine. I brought a 2022 Pan Am Special in March 2023, I've done 5,312 miles. I had a few issues at the start, with not having the latest software loaded and they replaced the starter clutch, but other than that it has been pretty good.
I have replaced the seat with a Sargent seat, which is much more comfortable; and I replaced the screen with a low height screen, and fitted a deflector to the top, no helmet buffeting, it is perfect now.
I use it mostly for road riding, weekend rides, commuting and a bit of dirt road riding, it has not let me down. I don't think the Pan Am is an off road bike, it is okay on dirt roads and can do trails, but it is a lot of work on tight trails, due to the weight. If you want to do trail riding, you need a smaller bike in my mind.
It is a fantastic sports tourer, that can do dirt roads.
I've been riding 50 years and 44 years on the road, I've done motocross, enduro and classic track racing. I love mountain roads, and I also ride a sidecar, which I've had for 34 years, fitted to a hotted up 1988 Lowrider.
Man! You’ve ridden a lot to know a lot! Agree about the PA being most a sport tourer. For most riders, anything over 400lbs and you going to need something more manageable off-road. My Honda CRF300l fits that roll nicely.
I had a Corbin seat on my PA. Made riding much for fun.
Now I want a bike with a side car 😂
I had a 2021 Pan America Special for 8 months and had to get rid of it. If I’m spending that much on a bike I expect basic reliability or the dealership being able to correct issues under warranty if needed. Weird spurious electronics glitches left me stranded a few times and I was afraid to take the bike far from home thinking it would fail to start. Its a fun bike and I could overlook some issues like the insane heat from the catalytic converter. But it was unreliable and the dealer didn’t have a clue about it. I got lucky that there was huge demand for used bikes in early 2022 so I didn’t lose that much selling it. I’ve since heard their value has sank like a stone. It’s a shame it was released with these issues. This isn’t a few lemons, if you look at Harley forums for most models everyone is posting about mods and custom parts. Pan America forums comments are mostly about problems with the bikes. I had a 2007 softail and now have a 2022 Road King Special that run perfectly and have never let me down so I’m not anti-Harley in any way.
Every time I looked in the forums it was all about issues. Never about mods or crazy long adventures. Like you, I just couldn’t trust it to go around the block, let alone around und the country.
I’ve done 15,000 kms on my 2022 PA and I love it. I spend most of my time riding miles of gravel roads which the bike is perfectly suited for.
I saw many of the same issues you saw with my PAS plusn having it stall going down the highway.That was probably due to the fuel pump squealing like a pig for the last 5k miles I had it. Part was always on backorder. I traded mine for a Road King Special. I'm happy to be back on the King.
That’s a great trade! Especially the color you got. Love it!
Forget adventure riding, if you just buy this to go camping it is too big and heavy. Seen lots of big adv bikes go over fully loaded on off camber wet campsites, you just can't hold them when they start to fall over.
I looked at it, but went with the KLR instead. Much more reliable at about 1/4 the cost. I don't need all those fancy rider modes. That's nonsense.
You saved yourself a ton of cash and are likely having WAY more fun on that KLR.
Wow - love the truthful evaluation based on your own experience of a fairly new model with its quirks and problems. Thanks.
First of all, I agree with you that many motorcycles have far to much tech and this is a major source of problems. I much prefer a motorcycle with a little less tech that is easy to work on and inexpensive to maintain. Having said that you are being way to generous with H-D on the Pan America. When you are buying a vehicle from a company that brags about such things as fit and finish and good design integrity and charges a premium price for it, you should get a bike that reflects that. H-D has a big R&D department. I have trouble believing that many of these problems did not manifest themselves during the design and testing phase. They should have been resolved then; well before production and marketing. If the Japanese and most of the major European companies can do it, and do so at more reasonable pricing, certainly a "premium" brand USA company should also. I am not hating on Harley-Davidson, but the Pan America is a gilded turd. What you have experienced and many others is just plain wrong. These issues are not typical nuisances, they can impinge on the safety of the rider. In today's world, if you don't call this stuff out, it will just continue. I am looking for an ADV, but I will not even consider a Pan America.
Hope you didn’t take too much of a loss on the PA. I haven’t ridden one yet. I did sit on one and immediately knew they’re was no way I’d would ever be comfortable on that bike. The seating position felt contorted and everything was just too cramped for me.
Some loss, but not as bad as PA owners will moving forward. The resale value just fell off the cliff recently. There are dealers that are selling ones with lower miles than mine for less than I sold mine for. It’s crazy!
It's Harley, and we love it and hate it at the same time. :D And I guess that is why I keep on coming back to it. It's like that old Whiskey that you hate the taste of it, but when you walk away, you miss it again and coming back for another sip. (For 2021/2 Model owners - 2023 models I hear are quite more reliable...care for another shot?).
I had my Pan Am Special (BTW, I strongly hate the Dirt Glide moniker.. Just me, I know.) for a year and a half and over 11K miles. I ride 1000 mile loops from Humboldt County to San Luis Obispo County twice a month, It should have had around 15-16K, but it let me down so many times. it wouldn't start to take on a trip. I'd ride, stop to fuel, and it wouldn't start. The starter itself was a noisy cantankerous affair.
Mine was one of the second tier Pan Am Specials that wasn't supposed to have the ARH. Yet, sometimes it would lower. Sometimes it would lower and not come back up.
Oh, that side stand... it's ridiculous.
Those were huge negatives in a bike that I'd ride to the middle of nowhere, until it became so unreliable that I couldn't take those rides on it.
My dealer bought it back for a very good price. I was totally happy with my dealership.
The positives. I didn't mind the fit & finish. The windshield is kinda wonky but I left it in one position and it did a fine job of protecting me at 5'8". The buttons did feel a bit cheap, especially the cruise control but they never broke or came loose or gave me the sticking issue, I guess I was lucky there.
The bike was a total hoot to ride, when it ran.
I was riding South on the 101 just North of Laytonville and got behind a semi and a pickup. The 101 has short areas where you can pass so I pass them. Right before going back into my lane ahead of the trucks I look at my mirror and then my speedo, 111mph and didn't feel like it at all. I chastised myself to slow down a bit but was in awe of the power.
I'd tell the dealer's service techs and sales people that Harley needs to take all the superfluous electronics off the bike so it was reliable because they actually have a 150 hp dirt bike and that's what we really want.
I bought a 2018 KTM 1290 from the dealership after they bought back the Pan Am. I only had it for three weeks. Great bike but it was mahoosive. Traded it for a KTM 890 S, and I've put 11,+++ miles on it in 8 1/2 months. I love the 890 even though the Pan Am made me skittish about all those electronics. The 890's dash went totally black on me on my first ride up from SLKO to Humboldt. The bike kept running though and after I stopped to fuel up it hasn't done that again. I mentioned it to the KTM dealer on a service, maybe they fixed it. That's been the only issue. The bike doesn't have that super bike top end like the Pan Am or 1290 but it is enough to keep up with Bay Area traffic at 80-85 mph and that's all I need out of a bike. BTW, the 890 was awesome at the Giant Loop Rally in SE Oregon in early June, its a highly capable off-road bike, within reason. I have a Husqvarna 501 S for unreasonable rides. ;)
I still love my 2017 Ultra Classic. I've had six Harleys, I'm not a basher just relaying my experience.
I’ve had a 22 Pan Am Special for 11k miles. Half of those are off road. I love the bike! The only issue I’ve had was the common radiator hose issue being too close to the header which was fixed under warranty. I hope the motor co keeps investing in the platform because the really did a great job entering one of the most competitive segments in motorcycling. It took guts to do what they did and I feel good about getting behind them even if the bike isn’t perfect.
I really really want H-D to succeed with this bike and in the ADV market. Yeah, it has its flaws and most bikes do depending on the rider’s needs, but I truly hope H-D are leaders in this segment in the future.
Im the opposite. Mine is mostly road, paved and dirt. I got almost 10K on mine no issues. I guess Im just lucky. 2022 Special.
Actually, BMW's K1600 series had "starter button" issues early on. It seems leaving the bike out in the hot sun would cause the electrical ribbon wire in the grip assembly to expand enough to lose contact, causing the buttons to fail. In the shade or cool temps (like in the dealer's shop) everything would work fine, they could never reproduce the problem. Drove BMW crazy (along with K1600 owners!). Finally, some sharp riders put 2 & 2 together & figured out a quick "in-the-field" fix was to lay a zip-lock bag filled with ice on the grip assembly to cool it off, allowing the bike to start. The K1600 cost a lot more than the PA! Of course, BMW did get it all sorted out eventually.
That’s possibly the one I was thinking of, though in my head I thought it was a different BMW bike with a starter button stuck down like my issue with the PA. Yeah, if you get the Grand America, it’s definitely more expensive than the Pan America.
Sorry to hear you had a bad go with your PA. Im really enjoying mine. A fun machine. One thing they dont like, low voltage. Low voltage will cause a lot of various issues.
The PA definitely hates low voltage. That battery in there is the same as the one H-D uses for the Evo Sporty. It’s caused tons of issues.
I have a 2021 Pan America and it's fantastic and I have no desire to sell it. Most people that buy a Harley, then change the seat, change the handlebars or install risers, change the screen, change the foot pegs, do a Stage 1 or 2 - just to make the bike fit them. If you really want a cruiser, then don't buy an adv bike. You just bought the wrong bike for you and then whine about it not fitting you, you didn't change anything like just about every Harley owner does after buying a traditional HD and as far as the dicky windscreen on the PAm goes (and I agree HD should have done better), the issue you mentioned is easily rectified by installing a Madstad windshield system.
“This is my opinion and why it’s not for me not your opinion” you proceed to tell him why his opinion is wrong lol
Exactly! I don’t take this personally, but, yeah, 100% my opinion on the bike and my riding style. It’s also not ADV vs cruiser. The Africa Twin is a great fit for me and it has no issues starting every time.
There’s a reason why the BMW GSA is number one. I’m also happy that HD joined the fray, But to this 3 time GSA owner it looks and feels cheap. Should’ve gotten a Tenere. Nice video.
100% agree about the GS. Now that I’ve accepted that I’ll never take a big adventure bike on anything more challenging than a gravel road, I think a GS might be in my stable at some point down the road.
@@GreatEgret Even the regular GS at 500 plus pounds before accessories is heavy relatively speaking. At nearly 60 years of age I’m thinking about sub 500lbs for my next bike.
52,000 miles on my T7 in 2 1/2 years, about a third of that in dirt. No growing pains, no problems. I really wish Harley would make a good adventure bike.
That T7 is the bike every content creator tries to find a bike to call it the “T7 Killer”. No one ever will.
I test tode a 24. Really liked the feel of it. Smooth and rider triangle was very comfortable. I wondering if they have fixed all the issues. Really would like one
If they have fixed the issues, that would be amazing. Especially now because dealers are dropping the prices on these.
Im looking at purchasing this bike. 2023 year, should I run or buy it? Have these issues been resolved? I have read that 2023 year all electeical issues were ironed out.
From what I’ve heard, H-D has made a lot of improvements. I’d go used, though. The price on these has bottomed out.
I Believe the Ducati Multistrada has adaptive ride control. I was going to purchase a Pan America
until I researched the used market (something I always do when researching a bike) and noticed that
the Pan America deprecated about 30 % in less than a year. Did more research by joining owners’ groups and found that the electrical gremlins and other little annoyances made the Pan America not the bike for me. I really tried hard to like the PA, but will all the problems I will wait a few years for HD to get things right.
Good plan. Especially because of the depreciation. I sold mine at just the right time.
Looks like the 2024 Africa Twin will be getting adaptive cruise control as well. That’ll be stiff competition for Ducati, BMW, and KTM if Honda can keep the price point at or below $23K.
Triumph just added a feature to the Tiger 1200 where you hold down the home button and it lowers the suspension an inch. Current owners can get an update from the dealer for free. Granted it doesn’t raise up and down at every stop like the PA.
Oh, I didn’t know that. That’s a step in the right direction for shorter adv riders. In a way it would nice to have control over when it lowers rather than have the IMU do it for you.
I've been looking at the PA now for about 3 months really like the bike and have ridden several, but I'm waiting for some longer term reviews on the 24's lots of changes and reliability issues with first 3 model years. If you are thinking about any bike I recommend renting one for a few days before buying it can give you a much better idea on longer rides than dealer test rides.
Here to support a fellow motorcyclist on YT!
So the main reason you sold it is because it wasn’t the right bike for your type of riding? Why did you buy it in the first place may I ask?
The electronic issues were frustrating for me too, but the dealer resolved them with a visit or two and I’ve been loving the bike.
I’ve owned over 100 bikes and miss a few of them, but I’ve found the Pan Am the best for putting miles on.
It’s not the type of riding, it’s the bike. I’ll still ride big adventure bikes like the Africa Twin. I bought it because I thought I’d love it. Turns out I didn’t and I gave it nearly a year. It’s a lot like dating and marriage, what you thought you loved sometimes doesn’t work out. I’m sure you understand that having owned over 100 bikes.
@@GreatEgret The Africa Twin is a nice bike, just not very exciting. Totally get not loving it. I test ride lots of bikes in search of that “loving feeling” and usually end up with those that are most exciting to ride. I’d probably be considered a forever bachelor that loves playing the field when it comes to owning bikes as I’m always chasing the exciting ones LOL. Good for us there’s endless choices for us to find “love” in the bike world! Have fun on your search for the next “love”
@jeniusbiker nothing wrong with endless love ❤️ Thanks for watching the videos and commenting so thoughtfully. I appreciate it!
I completely understand your frustration. Growing with a new bike model is sometimes challenging. I make it a practice of not buying the first couple of years or anything until they have a chance to work out the issues. However if you were to jump in and buy in the first few years you almost expect to ride the issue curve. BMW just brought out their new redesigned 1300 GS and it has the same or more issues yet these people have the 1250 GS so worked out that it’s not even funny. New model comes with new issues. Situational awareness is everything sometimes. The stuck button would have been an easy fix. Bike under warranty means I go drop it off and they replace it. Having purchased a multitude of new bikes from Harley this has also been the case. This is also why I purchase new bikes so I don’t have to invent fixes like graphite powder and such. I do get what you are saying about “I just want a bike I can ride”. Believe me I’m not beating you up here. Harley is the company you want to have when dealing with this stuff as they always backed up their product for me and made it right. Large dealer network and guys trained to work on motorcycles not snowmobiles. From your video I get the impression that you must have gauged the Pan correctly. Too big of a bike for what you want to do. You show yourself riding a much smaller bike in the end. We live and learn. Best of Luck to you and keep riding.
Thanks, man. Yeah just wasn’t the bike for me. It’s not the size or weight that made sell it. I have an Africa Twin that is almost as heavy and much taller. It was the riding position (just not right for my style as an adv rider) and all the issues.
I did a couple test rides on the Pan America even down some gravel roads. I really enjoyed the bike but it was too much power and weight for where I am in my riding career. I opted for the V85TT for my adventure touring wants.
Ah, the ol’ Moto Guzzi V85TT. The only middle weight adventure bike with a shaft drive.
The Pan Am was too tall went I went to try one. I too ended up with the V85TT. Love it. I have a Honda Fury also. Love me a shaft drive. Kinda glad I didn't actually ride the HD though. Might have liked that power too much.
I have a 2022 Pan Am made in Thailand and it has less than 6K on it and it is on it's 4th battery, 2nd start switch module, 2nd fuel pump, now it is in the dealer for 1 1/2 months with starter problem, a lot of valve train noise, chain rattle in motor when hot at idle, heated grips quit, rear tire pressure sender not working and an oil leak between the cylinders. The dealer here in the Philippines said he was going to cancel my warranty because I put on 2 watt led spots and changed my own oil and filter. I found out he cannot cancel my warranty for any reason and fi I change my own oil and keep the receipts and mark the millage in my owners manual I can do it but they have never given me an owners manual. I am now filling with the Department Of Trade and Industry here for a full refund. Don't buy one of these bikes.
Wow! This is one of the worst Pan America stories I’ve heard, and I’ve heard a lot. Good luck with getting a refund!
I owned a 2022 Nightster (same engine) and it was nothing but problems. If Harley Davidson can fix the software problems it would be a great bike. I got rid of it and I purchased a 2023 Street Bob (very simple-no electronic features).
I don't own one, but wasn't there also the issue with placement of battery (somewhere down low)? It's a no go for an adventure bike fmpov... Makes crossing waters impossible 😳
Most ridiculous spot to put the battery!
Did the same thing, had the same issues. I loved the bike and seeing it made me smile every time. But having a first year model, it had to many flaws.. I bought the RG 2024, hopefully again an proper HD
When they first came out in 2021 I wanted one so bad but I knew not to buy one so I didn’t. I bought a Triumph tiger instead which I didn’t like but I kept it for a couple years and then just recently bought a 2023 and that seems to be holding up just fine for now, I love riding it. I love looking at it. I love everything about it. It sucks though like you said the front end is crooked. They welded the fairing mount to the head tube and there is absolutely no way to fix it. Eventually you get used to it being crooked, and the only problem I have is that the keyless ignition doesn’t work. I’m any of the 2023s and Harley can’t fix it. I did find it back door, though that if you activate the left turn signal upon initial start up of the dash that the key code will appear on the screen and allow you to start the bike without the key. I learned that from someone on Facebook. Otherwise the bike fits me great I’m 6 foot one and it is the most comfortable bike and I love it and for me I think it off road really well. The right height is higher than you think. Remember, it has the adaptive height when you stopped bike low but when you get moving the bike raises and it raises to a point where it has plenty of height to do whatever you wanna do off-road.
The PA is a bike I would own and be riding right now…..if I had any confidence at all that Harley could build a reliable and worthwhile “modern” motorcycle, but they cannot and that’s a shame. Unfortunately, because Harley has refused to step outside their comfort zone for 100 years and allowed literally every, single, other, motorcycle manufacturer to surpass them in technology and power has greatly diminished their ability to build a reliable and comparable modern type of motorcycle. Maybe in 100 years of building rev max bikes with technology they’ll finally be trustworthy? I do love Harley and that’s why I’m hard on them! DO BETTER! I own and absolutely love my ‘21 FXLRS but I would love to have something modern and FAST AS STINK with the Harley Davidson logo on the tank!! But until they prove they can build a modern motorcycle that is anything close to worthy of the outrageous price tag? Count me out…….and I hate to say that!
Well,
I read every comment here and I must admit that I am torn.
Been riding a 2022 PAS since new last June and aside from a blank TFT sceen episode it has been trouble free for almost 18,000 miles now.
That being said I ran thru the online trade in deal on HDs website and low and behold.
The PAs value has dropped significantly.
I am On the fence here.
Trade this spring while its still worth something or ride it for the remaining three years and 9 months of full extended factory warranty.
By then it will have many more miles on it and be practically worthless .
What will time and miles bring?
Lots of issues maybe?
As stated by one of the comments will this thing be discontinued and go the way of Harley/Buells.
Extinct.
I really love this machine.
So much so that I have adapted to its idiosyncrasies and annoying side stand.
But Im 67 and really dont want to end up with a 560 lb lawn ornament that I cant get parts or dealer support from when Im 70.
That being said Im really interested in the Low Rider S.
Bare bones low to the ground machine that handles well for a cruiser and makes plenty of power for me.
For long haul I'll just do the detachable deal for baggage.
Love the ST but too damn expensive.
All of you folks who commented here all stated your opinions intelligently and not based them on a hatred for the brand.
So, I would appreciate any opinion, advice on my dilemma on this matter.
Hope that you all respond including Great Egret.
Will not be offended by any negative opinons as I want to hear them all .
I will take all into consideration
Thank you all.
Awaiting your comments.
Motorcycles and all the gear, mods and farkles that come with it are ridiculously expensive. Don’t listen to any motorcycling UA-camr that tells you one of the benefits of riding a motorcycle is all the money you’ll save. Including yours truly in probably my third or fourth video I did on this channel way back when. It can be true, but only if you buy a CRF300L (75 mpg) and leave it stock. Truthfully, most of us will spend an ungodly amount of money on the sport we love. And I say, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. Paul, my advice is if you enjoy the snot out of that bike, and it looks like you are after 18K miles in three months, and the bike is showing no signs of issues like I and others experienced, ride the PA until the wheels fall off. Then get a Low Rider S. Motorcycles are one of those luxury items in our lives that shouldn’t be considered investments unless buying and selling them is part of career. It’s okay to use every dollar you spent on it to have a ton of fun.
With that being said, watch the video that comes out tomorrow. I talk about technology and motorcycles. That bare bones and plenty of power of the LRS is exactly what the riding experience should be in my opinion. It’s why I’m looking for the right softail for me before next riding season starts.
I hope others will respond here and provide possibly another perspective.
Dude, i traded my lowrider s for the panny, i'm 55, way more of an enjoyable ride, but like every other Harley there is you end up replacing things and it's the same with this.... I listened to my dealer when I bought it, and remember they always told me to keep it on the tender even in the middle of summer, so I do that...... I don't have as many miles as some people but I'm coming up on my 5000 mile service in a couple of weeks
Aside from going block a couple times I've gotten my updates when I'm supposed to and let HD work on it, I feel I've got a good dealer and I have no plans to get rid of it....
@GreatEgret
Thank for the response.
Loved "ride the wheels off of it" .
Yes I think that I will do just that.
I have a very Pan Am friendly dealership.
The lead mechanic also owns and rides a 2021.
Thank you for your informative input.
I am subscriber to your channel.
Its good to have you back.
@panam_ed1820
Thank for your reply.
My dealer is also Pan Am friendly and savvy.
My mechanic there is also an owner and rider of a 2021 PAS.
Yessir the smart charger is plugged at all times.
Think I will keep it and to qoute Great Egret " ride it until the wheels fall off".
I really love the bike.
Thanks again
@@GreatEgret you hit it, they are a want, not a need...but with that said, the riding position with the right seat and risers is hard to beat...and the handling stock is superb....
32,000 kms on my 21 Pan Am including an around Australia trip (14,000 kms). I had constant non-start issues, fixed by free replacement of stater clutch. Still throws codes, so I clear them (never had limp mode). Mate has a KTM 1290 that throws heaps of codes, and guess what? Have to go to dealer to get cleared. I love mine; great in sports mode and customisable off road modes. Sorry for your issues but you might be in the minority. Many of the negative comments are non-owners rehashing another non-owner’s comments I reckon
Man, I love hearing success stories like this and there definitely is some truth about negative comments from non-owners. But for me and others, the issues are real and there are a lot of PA owners that have had them. I’m not bashing Harley or blaming the bike. It was a great bike when it ran.
I hated mine too. I traded it in on a live wire. It came with a case of bud light 😂
Hahahaha! I live in Wisconsin, so mine came with a case of Miller Lite 😂
How are you liking the Livewire?
@@GreatEgret
I was just messing with you brother. I ride a 2010 Fatboy 😂
@@MrWhitelightning73 much better ride than the Livewire 😂
I’m glad I watched this. I’ve been leaning towards the Pan American and after watching this am having some second thoughts?
It’s a great bike and I’m glad Harley got into the market, but the PA definitely has some issues. Especially the 2021-2022 models.
get a 23 or 24. youll be fine.
I bought a 2023 Pan AM, no doubt it is fast, fun and unique. However, it broke two days after I bought it, shut down and screen went black and wouldn't start. Goes to dealer, get it back. Broke immediately again. I lose excitement and trust for the bike. I then ride it around town for about 500 miles. It's doing okay so I decide to ride from NC to IA when my Mom had health issues. The entire way kept having issues. Audio controls and GPS quit working, had ride mode failure with warnings and faults. Ride modes no longer functioning. Then bike would occasionally not start. I took to the IA Harley dealer. They had it a month and a rep came out from Harley. Said nothing was wrong with it. They gave me some BS answers and just reset everything. I had to leave it there since I couldn't trust it. Then had to pay to have it transported to NC. IMMEDIATELY after unloading the bike wouldn't start and had faults. Goes to dealer again and they clear faults and reset it and say it is good. I have pics, videos, documentations and everything. After making the 1000 mile trip to Iowa the bike Has 2k miles on it. Harley won't buy it back, help me get in to another bike, won't even offer more warranty. NOTHING! To add to their poor customer service I have owned 4 Harleys and bought 2 new ones about a year apart. I'd think at 34 years old they'd want to keep me as a customer. I have loved the brand my entire life and no longer have any love or respect for them. Including buying a Pan Am special, with hard bags, fog lights, exhaust, axle guards and many add ons and extended warranty I am $29,991 invested. I asked the dealer what they'd give me for the bike to trade into something else. They offered me $9k after all this, so after getting stuck with a lemon I'd have to take that big of a hit......I hired a lawyer. Hopefully I can get out of this nightmare. I am flying to Milwaukee next week to go to corporate too and try to discuss, I hit a wall with customer service and they won't let me talk to anyone above my "rep." I have never felt so helpless and stuck with a poor quality and expensive purchase/product.
Tucker, that sucks, man! I hope everything gets sorted out. Keep us posted how it goes.
Looking at the switchgear looks like the dashboard of a 747 Jumbo. Interested to see what you will buy next please please don't sell your sportster 😢.ride and be safe Ron from Ireland.
I’m five minutes from riding the Sporty to view the sunset. 🤘🏼
All those buttons are crazy. I keep looking for the nuclear launch button on that bike!
The Pan America is a bike that I liked .. past tense 😂. Honestly, seeing some engine issues with other people’s bikes in addition to what you have mentioned .. made me pull the trigger and exchange it for a Softail 😬 which I eventually exchanged for a Baggers 😎
You’re one of the smart ones!
The main reason why you had so many issues is because the 21 and the 22s were the trouble bikes out of the Pan America lineup they have constantly been making improvements and working all the bugs out of them and the 23s and the 24s are a lot better just don't buy first or second gen pan America's I am actually planning on getting a 24 Pan America later this year and also plan to attempt an iron butt challenge on it but I fully understand that you had a lot of issues with your 22 Pan America but as I said before the 2021 and 2022 we're very problematic because they were the first of the new bikes
I have a 2022 and I agree with the electrical issues. Biggest piece of junk. Limp mode everyweek. Will not crank in the cold. Will not turn over on first press of the ignition switch. I replaced the BCM twice already. The bike has randomly shut down while I was riding. ARH being stuck on the tallest position. The fob key runs through batteries. I replaced mine twice in a year. Fob will not unlock bike unless you wiggle it over the seat. The coolant hose busted because it was too close to the exhaust from factory. Randomly goes into neutral when you up shift hard. If you hook up your bluetooth headset to the infotainment system it will constantly cut in and out. Overall the worst bike I have purchased. I should of kept my road king.
Start button...you do not push and hold to start. Very quick push and release (like a car) don't hold it down.
I didn’t hold it down. I’d just push it like you said. It got stuck down. Even if I did hold it down, it should pop right back up, so holding it down has nothing to do with the fact that it would get stuck.
You touch on a point that is so underrated… and people including me, waste and wasted so much money because they did not clearly understood what kind of rider they are …
The sad part is I’ve made the mistake more than once. It’s always best to be honest with yourself as a rider.
@@GreatEgret yes we are our own worst enemies by not being honest with ourselves , it is a saddle point in the video that is crucial point in life in general
What year was your bike that you sold?
2022. I waited until the second year hoping that the issues with the first year model would be fixed.
@@GreatEgret well hopefully they have improved on the 2023. It's what I have.
@TheLeftwing71 how’s it running for you so far? I love the update to the windshield and it seems like things are better with the electrical gremlins.
So far it seems fine. I haven't had much electrical issues with the 2023. Just the one time after parking a long time the fuel gauge wasn't there. All I did was shut down and restart the problem. So I haven't had a problem, but then there is only 1100 km on it.
Good review. I hope HD gets the gremlins sorted out. Sticky start button sounds like a real pain. HD wouldn't fix it? I have never had a Harley but keep saying maybe one day. Problem is no money and running out of years.
Thanks! It seems the 2023 Pan Americas are better, but now there are a ton of used ones out there and the value has dropped significantly. When I took it in for the 1000-mile service, they said they fixed the sticky button, but it kept happening. I gave up about 1200 miles later.
I have the same no money and running out of years problem on many of the bikes I want.
I watched for a few minutes and got the picture. No way, Jose. I really only miss one bike; a BMW K1300GT. I had a 1600GT but that was too much bike for me, as great as it was, too.
🤣🤣🤣🤣I had a brand new bmw gs that kept going limp so I lemon lawed it because it was in the shop 8 months out of the 9 I owned it so I went to test ride a new Pan America and it wouldn't even start, went to the next one, dead too, never did get to ride one. I ended up getting a DR650 to go with my Road King which have been my most dependable bikes. I'm about done with electronic crap.
That’s exactly it, man! I’m going to sound like an old man here, but I’ll say it anyway. This push to get riders into tech while riding is taking away the riding experience. We ride to get away from all the tech. Let’s leave it off the bike.
The in/off switch that was stuck, ever bring it to the dealer to sew of they would fix it? I'm a new PA owner and love it so far. Although, I'm nervous about some issues as you describe coming up eventually. I feel harley needed to change up their models cause not as many people are buying bikes, us old people are aging and some of us just can't ride anymore. The new generation isn't buying as many bikes as our generation did. So good for harley trying to get into different markets.
I took it in for the 1K service and they claimed to fix it, but it just started happening again.
Glad I passed on it and bought a Triumph Tiger for half the price.
Super smart move!
I plan on buying a 2025 model, used, in 2030 :P If they can improve the reliability, and maybe a slight face lift (never got to love the front angle), I would seriously consider buying one (the first time I have any interest for an HD). Edited: Wow going through the comments I don't think I've ever seen so many fuel pump failures on a recent bike with such low mileage...
I have a Australian delivered pan and it’s almost 2 years old with 1400 kilometres on it I have had numerous problems with the electrics Harley Aus have done nothing to help with extra warranties and the like it has turned me away from the brand as a whole the bike cost $34000 now is only worth $22000
I really like this bike and want one. My local dealer has two 23 models that they have marked down to $17,500. The electrical gremlins keep me from buying one though. It seems to be hit or miss on whether you get a good one or one with problems. I just hate to take that chance. I don't ride off-road and would mainly use one as a cruiser and touring bike.
You’re not alone with your fears about the electrical gremlins. It’s definitely hit or miss with the PA. You’re also not alone with not riding a bike like this off-road. Only the most skilled adv riders can do that. There are very few that are. $17,500 is a good price for a new 2023. I paid $22,500 for mine and sold it for $15,500.
I have a Triumph Tiger 900, and it is a great bike but I wish it was lighter for off-road. I tried a Pan America and found the same of the rider triangle. I could not get comfortable at all. I had the same problem with a BMW 1200 RT. Legs too cramped.
I am glad Harley made the bike, and I hope they continue to iterate on it. And yes, I would like to see a lighter one. That little CRF is as GREAT bike to learn off-road on for sure.
Man, sometimes I don’t like the low power of the CRF, buts that mostly because I’ve had so many bikes with much more power. But off-road it’s genuinely a pleasure to ride this little bike.
unfortunately for HD, the PA is plagued with too many issues and sales are going to tank to the point where it will be put out of production. They can’t compete against, BMW, Triumph, KTM and Ducati with an overpriced, half baked product. The only ones who will still be riding this bike are the ones who are underwater in payments because the HD dealer tacked on thousands over MSRP.
Glad you got out of it before it became a worthless paper weight.
I’ve been watching the resale prices. They are dropping like crazy. Especially in the last two months since I sold mine. There’s an independent dealership about 90 minutes from me selling a used 2022 with about 400 miles on it for $15k!
150 hp dirt bike, humm, I started in the dirt on a 5 hp mini bike with fat knobby tires, loved every minute
I’d MUCH rather have a 5hp mini bike in the dirt than this behemoth!
I’ll take my 2002 old school sportster custom.
Good choice!
I have hated the Pan America since I first saw a picture of it. I might not have if it had been made by anyone else but H-D. Since I was a teenager, H-D bikes have been a dream for me. I loved the way they looked, felt, and sounded. But I could never afford a new one. In 2003 I bought a really nice low mileage 1989 FXRS Low Rider. My first Harley, I still have it, and still love it. It is everything a Harley is supposed to be. Then about 5 years ago I bought a 2006 Sportster 1200L to go with it. I love it too. These bikes are what Harley Davidson means to me. The Pan America represents what is wrong with H-D, and the direction they are going in. They ruined their bigger road bikes with the awful M8 engine, which reminds me of the 1985 Honda Goldwing I used to have a long time ago. Smooth, quiet, and over refined. They completely got rid of the Sportster. But even before the M8, and before they got rid of the Sportster, they started painting most of their bikes flat black. To me Harley has always meant LOTS of chrome, and bright shiny paint. Both my older Harleys have that. The newer ones look like they were dipped in a vat of flat black. The Pan America is the bike that most clearly reminds me of the decline of H-D. Even it is available in flat black. It doesn't look, sound, or feel like a Harley. It's really sad to see a company that has survived for well over 100 years, the great depression, the Japanese motorcycle invasion, and 2 world wars, finally going down the drain.
Sorry to hear the PA didn't work for you. Ultimately, it's you weighing plus and minus items.
If any vehicle doesn't work, sell it to allow other to enjoy it.
A minus item for you could be a non issue to a new owner.
It is what it is.
If anyone wants to buy it it’s available at a non-Harley powersports dealership in Madison, WI. I would love for someone else to enjoy this bike and tell me how much they love it.
You were brave to buy a PAS before the bugs have been worked out. I'm still waiting
However, your points are well taken. Meanwhile other brands are looking better.
I REGRET THAT EGRET had to go threw this horrible ordeal with his harley.Im glad he mentally pulled threw this.
I posted a video of me test riding the PanAm, and you can see right at the start of the test ride it randomly shuts off on me.
Bike had like 112miles on it, brand new. Not sure what was up, but I'm pulling up to leave the parking lot and it stalls, I try to restart it and just poof gone like an old apple OSX computer.
Also I find it bit funny you said it doesn't feel like a bike that HD would make, when one of my comments about the bike is that it captures a harley feel. Opinions are funny, lol.
I want to like the Pan Am, but it's not a comfy ride for me, and it'd have to be a main bike at that price tag. I want a 2022~23 Versys650 more because it's a great looking bike comfier, and a lot cheaper, with easily swappable wheels.
Im Glad HD build the Pan Am, but its not the bike for me.
hEY BRA DO YOU STILL HAVE THE PAN AMERICA FOR SALE BRUUH??
Nope, but the dealership I sold it to has it listed for $17,800.
My bike is so old that it doesn’t know what a limp Mode
Best comment on here!
You forgot to mention that it fell out of the ugly tree hitting every branch. It reminds me of that hideous Morbidelli V8 from the 80s.
🤣🤣 yeah, it was in the same tree as that Morbidelli for sure.
Thank you for your honest review instead of being a shill.
No problem! The PA has some good things about it, but not every bike is perfect and the PA has a lot of imperfections.
I've been more than comprehensive with HD and new stuff with my 2018 Softail ... I really like this bike but I'm not going through this again.
Maybe in a few years if the 2024 are really ironed out (I call BS on the Moco saying this to discourage the used market)
I'd like a Pan America, Lots of interesting features. Reliability? I bought a GS. I hope they get it sorted. Until they do its not a bike I can afford.
Paris Dacar rally bikes why???
You might as well take a goldwing off road.600 lb off road bike? not anywhere I ride!I do want to see if I can convince one to race me through the woods title for title on my Dr 650 but I've yet to see one not on black top around here.wait till you come to a tree across the trail,Imma go right over it,dont know what that thing is gonna do.and as far as highway riding,pretty sure the fjr will shut em down there no problem.whoever says one bike does everything is lying to you.if you do multiple types of riding get multiple bikes and a toy hauler if necessary.youll probably be in the hospital after wrestling that thing ariund in the woods all day,especially after you drop it a few times.what kind of crap is this!I mean theres a guy on here ripping an fjr through the jungle.just because its posdible dont mean it'll be fun!
Sold my 21 pan america special last week and bought a 2019 Africa twin adventure sport.
You made one of the best choices in your motorcycle life! I have a 2021 ATAS as well. I love it while riding it and think about riding it when I’m not.
I hope the person you sold your bike to isn’t watching this video
I sold it to a dealership for $16K. They listed it for $19,700 and couldn’t sell it. I think they dropped it down below what they paid me for and sold it.
Most Americans buy ADV bikes for the same reasons they buy Jeep Wranglers with 35's, pickup trucks, 4Runners instead of mini-vans... the image of ruggedness. The US buyer wants that rugged image to try and forget we are mostly a bunch of automatons working for corporations to pay our high debt loads living in our cardboard box cookie cutter houses. In the Rubicons, Bronco's, F150's, 4Runners, we get to play pretend that we are free, independent, and tough.
I have read every single comment here and it's obvious that there are problems with the PA. I just wish that the manufacturer and manufacturers in general would read into your site and others. The insight they would gather is priceless. Why they are building these monstrosities that nobody really wants is bejond me. I'm 5'8 and don't feel comfortable on any of the big adventure bikes. I know why they are called adventure bikes, they are an adventure to own.. I own a BMW 80GS from the late 80's which serves well to this day, carburettor and all, no electronics except ignition. These bikes didn't come with the moniker adventure bike 😉
I test drove one to see if I liked it better than my 2020 ATAS DCT. I do like the PanAM but it's definitely not a better bike than my Honda. Even though it's the same price.
is the DCT really that pricey?! I paid 23k all said and done for the Pan America. My ATAS manual was around $18K.
The AT is by FAR a better bike.
Wow...Was thinking of getting a Pan American...i'm 69, owned Harley's since i was 15ys old...(with the exception of a 1986 Suzuki Calvacade and 1979 Suzuki GS850...dam i miss those!)...but after hearing of all the issues of this bike, and i sure don't want to be stranded in the middle of nowhere, i might as well pay ⅓ the price and buy the new Royal Enfield...Low tech, simple to work on, now water cooled and it's 450cc now, light and nimble to safely navigate the backroads...i think it would be a better and cheaper way to enter this ADV Touring...
Still loving mine...no issues here. 12400 miles
Man, I wish I was as lucky as you.
Pure luck!
I couldn't even get the Pan American off the kickstand XD I sat on the new Suzuki 800 DE and centered on the bike. Neither leg could touch the ground except the very tippy toe edge of the rubber on my boots lol standing off to one side. I couldn't get the bike upright which is not ideal. I think the KLR 650S is the only adventure bike I can actually ride XD
Dude, I have a 32” inseam and I had trouble with that ridiculous kickstand! Have you considered a Himalayan?
@@GreatEgret I have like a 29 inch inseam so you can only imagine lol but I want an adventure bike I can take cross country. Himalayan's not really good for that
When its not a fit, its just not a fit. Def a sexy looking bike tho.
Ducati and BMW had adaptive ride height long before Harley copied it. But to be fair, very altruistic and dam fine of Harley to make a gateway adventure bike to get Harley riders into the adventure genre - once they have sold their PA and got a BMW GS, Honda Africa twin, Yamaha T7 etc etc etc that is.....
What bikes of BMW and Ducati had adapted ride height before Harley put it on the PA? The closest thing to it is BMWs 3-and 4-series cars. That’s not the same thing really.
ive herd some bad stories of the pan America so much i would not buy one.
It seams for every one good there are five bad stories.
2 brand new bikes for sponsored riders blown motors in 40 miles . servos in motor, you won't here about it because there sponsored, failed starters , electronic issues , we a had a guy loan a rider his PA on a baja ride so it would die once more to lemmon it, stators there's the suspenssion sag issues. its a bummer honestly. i like the Honda Africa Twin much more, but was pulling for the PA. @@GreatEgret
@NorCal-refrigeration that AT is by far my favorite bike.
BMW never had any problems for over 3years
As this bike rolled out and read all the rave reviews, I said then I'll wait to hear from actual buyers after they get thru 10k or more miles. I didn't think the PAm would be great overall. It seems I was right, By 2023 many buyers are reporting many details of the quality of big & low levels that should not be on a $22-25k machine. I had similar quality deficiencies on my new '72 Harley that I just sold. Since 2005 all my long rides were on my 1250 BMW!
I’m going to Tucson the week between Christmas and new years. I’m renting a R1250GS. I’m really looking forward to riding it!
@@GreatEgret-Cool I think you'll really like its power, technology & comfort you should be in much cooler weather than I was in Jun-Sep months a few years ago.
I'm impressed you were riding the BMW 1250 14 years before it debuted. That's quite an accomplishment.
Yes, you can do it too with fat fingers & tiny phone keyboards.
Harley Davidson. Yesterday’s technology at tomorrow’s prices.
I still want one.
Ask Buell owners what it is like to hang onto a non-harley Harley too long. Good choice.
Well ya should have been under warranty for the start switch!
@@crockett11000 I took it in for the 1000 mile maintenance. The dealership said they fixed it. They didn’t.
No way I would trust that bucket of bolts.
The perfect motorcycle? Harley Davidson reveal date.
LOL ! Adventure bike. Like an adventure train.
Ha! Someone else on here compared it to an MRAP.
With a 19-in front and 17 in rear it's a joke to call it an adventure bike tire choice is very limited and it won't do anything well except gravel roads
I’m not one to compliment the Pan America. The bike is a joke, but wheel size isn’t one of its issues. The R1200/1250/1300 GS has the exact same 19 front/17/rear setup and there are plenty of tires to choose from. Now Harley claims that you need to go to the dealership to have the ecu flashed when changing to an off-road tire. I don’t know how true that is.
I wish mine would get stolen.
All the problems the OP mentioned, and to top it off, its valueless to the resale market.
I wished the same until I sold mine.
Great video and very informative, I was looking to buy a Pan America but your honest comments have made me think again, I don't want to go off road ,I do more touring but I don't want a purely touring HD cause they weigh too much and as I am getting older and weaker the enjoyment subsides the more you worry about "can I pick this thing up if it falls" Some of my friends have the Pan Am and have suffered the same if not more glitches than you so it seems to have quite some problems that should not be present on such an expensive bike .
It looks like I will stick to my Sport Glide.
Thanks, man. That Sport Glide is a great bike. The only thing is I wish the bags were bigger.
Yeah I know what you mean . I carry a Viking bag on the sissy bar, but remember what it is , a weekend tourer. @@GreatEgret
Love my 23' Special!