Table Saw Tune-Up 2: Fence Alignment
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- ** UPDATE ** WATCH THIS VIDEO INSTEAD: • 4 Easy Ways to Align a...
In part 2 of this multi-part series, I show how to align your table saw's fence to the blade. I go into lots of detail, with a lot of tips and a troubleshooting guide. Make sure you watch part 1 first, which shows how to align your blade to the miter track. • Table Saw Tune-Up 1: B...
Index:
Table Extensions: 00:31
Checking the Alignment: 00:55
Measuring Tips: 04:09
How to Change the Alignment: 05:52
Aligning the Fence: 07:08
Checking the Fence Lock: 08:56
Final Sanity Check: 09:27
References: 10:38
All Products featured in my videos: www.amazon.com...
Products featured in this video:
Dial Indicator (Digital): amzn.to/2CtvSIB
Dial Indicator (Analog): amzn.to/2CEDA0m
SawStop JobSite Table Saw (Rockler): bit.ly/2A2Wz3o
Thanks so much! Truly the only video I've found that addresses the measurement correctly (with dial indicators) ... no guessing ... absolute known values. Please send both part 1 & 2 to SawStop ... their service/support advisors think that the "Job Site" saw can't be accurately adjusted. Looking forward to your other videos. As an example a 0.006" error when cutting octagons is (approx.) 0.048" errror on the last cut, potentially making the pieces tough to glue and final ends that don't quite meet ... frustration removed!
You're quite welcome. I spend time on the SawStop User's Group on Facebook, and I feel confident that the guy that runs the group, Trent Davis, would want to know who you talked to. If you have a name, let me know and I'll pass it on, or you can join the FB group and share your experience yourself. facebook.com/groups/sawstopusersgroup/.
Here is something for you to ponder on. 1. If you already adjusted the miter slot to the blade why not adjust the fence to the same miter slot? All you have to do is to point digital indicator to the other side. 2. Most fences are made out of sheet aluminum. And most likely yours is caved in. By using long piece of wood against the fence you are making an arc movement because your fence is caved in like an arc. Sure you can make Zero on both sides but it is not going to be a true Zero. But if you put indicator directly on the fence first of all you will see the arc. And if you mark two spots to measure on the fence equidistant from the center of the table even if you have the arc on the fence it wouldn't matter.
3. Just make a thick tight runner that is sitting on the bottom of the miter slot and 1/4" above the table and shove the fence against it while tightening those alignment screws. Done.
Thanks, and I agree with you. This video isn't one of my best, and as it says in the description, you should watch this one instead: ua-cam.com/video/01R7796JoQo/v-deo.html. As for #3, it's hard to argue with that logic! Feel free to keep giving me feedback and new ideas, because I like the way you think! 😄
do you think a lot of table saw fences are not square themselves? as in the aluminum face is not square?
@@xisotopex Yes, more likely because of the stress of machining. Luckily the arc (between two sides) is so thin that it can be adjusted with a push and locked with the bolts.
I do use a dial indicator but my favorite way of measuring alignment is by feel. I slide the fence so that the right edge of the right hand slot is dead flush with the fence when locked. I then close my eyes and run my finger along the slot so that it is contact with the fence and slot. If the fence is flush front and back then I'm done. I once checked this with a dial indicator and I was dead on. Make a cut and check for parallelism. Trust your cuts as the definitive guide to alignment, after all we are not doing precise metal work here. Its also worth noting that some woodworkers, including me, like to have a "small" toe out at the back of the fence to prevent binding and kickback.
Thanks for another informative video
Great comments! Thanks! I tried doing it by feel, but with my SawStop fence, I couldn't feel it. I think it's because of the little "shelf" that the fence has that can slide in and out. But I could imagine this working quite well with certain types of tables and fences. Thanks for the comment!
I forgot to mention that I have a Sawstop PCS and its ideal for the "feel" method
That was an excellent explanation. Especially the multiple checks for consistency. So many videos don't stress that. If you don't have repeatability, it makes fixing problems almost impossible.
Thanks, and SO true. I agree *more* than 100% - I agree 200%, because I checked it twice! 😛 I have a newer video that has some easier methods, so you might want to check it out. ua-cam.com/video/01R7796JoQo/v-deo.html. Thanks again for the comment! 😄
Nicely done. Straight forward explanation with great commentary about common issues. Wish me luck!
Thanks, and good luck!
Hi From the UK. What is the saw you are using, it looks a bit of useful kit.
It's a SawStop JobSite Saw, and unfortunately it's not available in Europe.
I just purchased a JJS (October 2020) and have found the locking fence problem to occur every time. Has anyone found what the problem is and the solution to correct it?
I heard that if you pull it towards you when you lock it, it's supposed to help.
Hi. Newbie hobbyist here. Pls enlighten me. Why do we need to align the saw blade? From what i understand, on'y one saw tooth cuts at a time, the tooth nearest the operator. From what i imagine, the distance between the fence and this cutting tooth determines the cut width, irregardless of how far away the tooth at the opposite end is. If the blade is moving away from the fence to prevent binding, what is the necessity of aligning the fence parallel to the blade? Thank you.
Your question shows you've been thinking this through, and that's good. A lot of people don't go that far. One correction, though: The rear teeth can also cut, which you can tell by listening to the sound your stock makes as you finish the cut. If everything's aligned perfectly, you won't hear a cutting sound. Not that it needs to be aligned perfectly, as you point out. A lot of people (myself included) have the fence "toed out" a little so there's less chance of binding. But it all depends on degrees. If the fence is toed out too much, you won't end up with a straight cut, because the stock will rotate a little during the cut, if that makes sense. Let me know if I didn't explain it very well, which is quite possible. 😄
it would be better solution using metal parts instead of wood…
Well, this *is* a woodworking channel...
I’m retired now but I was a machinist/ tool maker for 40 years and I’ve
Don't leave me hanging, man! And you've... what? 😂
Thanks for your videos!! I just became your newest subscriber!!
Thanks! Glad to have you aboard. I don't take any of my subscribers for granted. :)
I don't agree with you. Adjusting the fence against the blade (or the piece of wood) is not correct.
Correct is adjusting against the slot in the table. Why? Adjusting in any case means, the dynamic part against the fixed part. The fixed part is the slot in the table. You adjust the blade against the slot. So the fence will be adjustet against the slot also. There is no reason, to use the blade for adjusting. IMHO of course.
Regards from Germany.
Oh Alfred, if you only knew how much I struggled with which method to present here... 🙂 On the one hand, I agree with you, and in fact I have a more recent video that focuses on that.
On the other hand, the only thing that *actually* matters, right now, when you're making a cut, is the fence's alignment to the blade. If the fence is aligned to the miter slot, but the blade is toed out, it's a recipe for kickback (not that it's likely a blade would get out of alignment by that much, but you know what I mean).
So which is correct? Personally, I believe you should align to the blade, because of what I just said, and in spite of my more recent video. If you check it regularly and discover the fence is no longer aligned to the blade, it's a good indicator that you should check the blade's alignment first.
Which is actually best? Heck if I know. That's why I covered my bases and presented both points of view. 😛
Think about this: You use your crosscutsledge or the miter fence. Both are guided through the slot! You have no possibility, to adjust both (or more jigs) against the blade. When your blade is out of parallel to the slot is, you have there also the danger of kickback. So the blade has to be adjusted against the slot and the fence also. Adjust your machine and be happy. Yes, i know, adjusting the blade is a hell business. I had to do this also with my tablesaw. Behind closed doors :-)
I don't disagree. And fortunately for me, this SawStop is really easy to adjust the blade. Now my old Ryobi, that's another story... 🤬 I'd be interested on your opinion of my other fence alignment video: ua-cam.com/video/01R7796JoQo/v-deo.html
@@TheNewbieWoodworker I agree with Alfred Neumann 100%. The table saw mechanism is designed so that the arbor is always orthogonal to the miter slot. Assuming the blade body to be absolutely flat, would then make the blade parallel to the miter slot STATICALLY. However, dynamically there is always a minute wobble depending on mass distribution of the carbide teeth on the circumference of the blade. We as engineers design to minimize these deviations to remain within manufacturing tolerances. Now a .001 inch relative difference statically is not same as measuring dynamically in our test labs using sensors. So usually we believe that a dynamic situation is best represented to be acceptable in manufacturing environment by limiting the speed of rotation to less than 5500 rpm for a 10 inch blade. That way on interaction with materials of different densities and size the required torque for consistent cut is always there assuming a high quality saw blade is used. But the blade is aligned from the factory to the miter slot and fence is also aligned parallel to the miter slot. If a blade is used as per specs in the user manual then alignment is not required. However, the fence definitely needs to be aligned except in case of rack and pinion where alignment requirements are minimized. For contractors or jobsite saw these alignment is limited and is as per the user manual. For cabinet saws it's a whole different situation. So getting hung up on static alignment unless your table saw has been abused is limited to a general perception that things would work as intended.
Sorry for the long post. Hopefully this clarifies the usefulness of alignment of contractors table saw.
@@bijoysaraf650 Thanks for the reply. This was one of my earlier videos, and I've learned a lot since then. As I mentioned in one of the replies above, I have a newer video that talks about aligning the fence to the miter track: ua-cam.com/video/01R7796JoQo/v-deo.html
I think it's easier to align fence to the miter slot. As long as you already have blade aligned to slot.
Thanks for the comment, which I find quite interesting. I think you're probably right. The reason I aligned it to the blade is because ultimately, that's the final goal. But you've got me thinking now (and that's always dangerous). I might do an addendum video mentioning an alternative is to align it to the miter track.
Do you have any tips on doing this? I mean, I could use the dial indicator, but I almost wonder if just cutting a length of wood that fits snugly in the miter track might be better, because then all you have to do is snug the fence against the the wood, and you're done.
What do you think?
The Newbie Woodworker I think that is best way. I would still check it with indicator. Because I'm a mechanical engineer, I can't help it.
LOL. I get it. I think you can just leave it at "I am an engineer". Mechanical or otherwise, we just can't help ourselves. If we're not over-engineering, we're just not trying hard enough. :) Thanks again for the thoughts.
The Newbie Woodworker I got a new cabinet saw. Blade was parralel to slot within .003. took me hours today to get it under .001. LoL. Now on to the incra ts fence system. I'll be up all night.
Doug Prentice and Newbie Woodworker: I think the difference between a mechanical engineer and a woodworker engineer is that mechanical engineers are usually working with thous or tenths of thous whereas woodworkers are usually working to wider limits. I think you are an exception, John, in that your quest for accuracy and your rigorous and thorough scientific approach are unusual for woodworking (please, no offence to other workers for whom I have the greatest respect. Its just a matter of degree).
The suggestion I made in my comment to your part 1 video regarding relieving the 2x4 block so it sits on two feet to prevent rocking also apply here. This would avoid the need to attach it to a second piece of wood before resting it against the fence. Relieving it in this way would also guard against possible distortion due to changes in temperature, humidity and residual stress in the wood during periods when it was not in use.
As before, many thanks for an excellent tutorial. You have a new subscriber.
Hey Dan, thank you for the video.
When I was tuning up the my SawStop for the first time, I tried your approach. In fact, I used your approach for the blade. However, when I went for the fence, at first I tried your approach. However, I decided to instead just flip the original jig (that I used to align the blade) the other way around. I used the miter gauge same way as with the blade alignment, but this time having the indicator against the fence instead.
Not only did I think it was a lot easier to do it like that, I also think there's less error being introduced with a simpler jig. If you're satisfied with your setup for the blade in relationship to the miter slot, then aligning the fence to the same slot instead of the blade shouldn't be an issue.
Thanks fo the comment. Yes, I agree with you. As I mentioned in the description, above, I have a newer video that explains some ways to align the fence to the video. But as you said, turning the jig around and using it on the fence is probably ideal.
Ah, I hadn't seen the updated video. I got here straight from the unboxing video and because I'm on my phone a lot of times I don't see the description.
Great videos. Keep it up!
Thanks! Yes, that's one thing I dislike about UA-cam. There's no sure-fire way to let people know there's a new version of a video. :) Thanks for watching!
When using the blade for your sanity check, adjust the indicator to zero on a smooth section like you show. Then hold the gauge block firmly while "slowly" rotating the blade. The indicator should show very little change. If you have a slightly warped blade, you will never get it aligned! Wasted 2 hours, almost scratched my head raw! 😂
Thanks for sharing, and that's an excellent point! 😄
Did you check the wobble or warpage, aka: flatness, of the saw blade? With the jig held firmly in place, slowly rotate the saw blade in 90 or 45 degree increments. How about using a clamp to firmly hold your jig against the fence, just snug, not too tight? Use a wider and or longer bottom board on your jig for stability. EXCELLENT VIDEO!!!
Thanks for the comment. I'll admit this isn't the best video in the world. I was still learning.
Thanks. Have you ever done something similar with a miter saw? There is a good video posted, where they build a nice 90 degree jig with an adjustable screw on the opposite end from the dial indicator. Just wondering.
No I haven't. I don't have a miter saw - no room! 😄
I think you can use your blade and get the same accuracy. By raising the blade some you can do your measuring at a decreased angle on the blade(IE further out from the center line of the blade). That begs the question of does the raising of the blade throw the alignment off by any significant amount??
Thanks for the comment. Yes, you can probably get readings close enough if you just use the blade, but I think if you're going to check the alignment, why not be as accurate as possible?
Interesting question about raising the blade possibly affecting the alignment. I doubt it, but I suppose anything is possible. If it does, then I think you've got bigger problems. :)
It would have been more helpful if you had used a table saw with a fence that was way out of alignment and then adjust.
Thanks for the comment.
Thanks for the great video, I am a true Newbie, and these videos help a lot.
Awesome! Glad I could help. 😄
Thank goodness I own that saw!!! I love it!!!!!
It's a great saw, that's for sure. 😄
You didn’t address the 45 tilt of the blade.
You're right, I didn't. There's so many different ways for that to be adjusted on various saws, I really couldn't figure out a good way to explain it.
Now if these procedures will work on my old craftsman 😉
They don't? How about the updated video? ua-cam.com/video/01R7796JoQo/v-deo.html
Great video!.Looking forward to learning more.Thank you.
Thanks!
Thank you so much for sharing your wonderfull video
Thanks, and you're quite welcome! 😄
The best indicators money can buy are only accurate to +/- .001 so I wouldn’t worry about .0005 with an Amazon indicator. Thank you for all the great videos.
Thanks, and of course you're right. I was actually surprised I could get it that close, so my perfectionism kicked in. :)
Good comment ... a Starrett "711" dial gauge (and many others including SPM) make 0.0001" dial indicators where the error is +/- 1 ten thousand ... way beyond what a table saw needs but they can be had and are extremely useful in the metal machining world
I don't have a dial indicator and can't afford one. Is there anyway you can align your blade and fence using a digital caliper?
Sure. One thing you can do to align your blade, is to use a combination square. Put the adjustable part in a miter track, and extend the ruler to one side of the blade. Then slide it down and check the other side. Here's a short article with a picture: www.rockler.com/how-to/tune-table-saw-planer-router-table-combination-square
For the fence, see this video I made, for some simple methods: ua-cam.com/video/01R7796JoQo/v-deo.html
Harbor Freight
@@Ronbo765 👍
The model number too please
I know I replied to your other comment, but just to be thorough: www.sawstop.com/table-saws/by-model/jobsite-saw/
The Newbie Woodworker I have a Scheppach HS-105 . The table can be aligned to the blade, but the adjustment rods are tucked away under the table . The blade does not move. The table rotates to align - - that’s a nightmare.
@@kenwhibley2493 My new SawStop PCS aligns the same way. I dread the day I have to align it.
The Newbie Woodworker i have been looking at the Axminster craftsman range - fantastic piece of kit with cast iron table but twice the price- very easy to adjust everywhere
@@kenwhibley2493 I don't know anything about that table saw, sorry. But I'm all for spending lots of money on tools. 😂
MUCHAS GRACIAS JOHN POR SUS MUY BUENOS VIDEOS, AYUDAN MUCHO A APRENDER.
¡De nada! (a través del Traductor de Google)
You are the best!
LOL. Thanks!
3:39 Bahahahha
😄
Hi Newbie. On an earlier video where you originally reviewed the JSS we had a conversation and were in agreement that we had some serious issues with the fence on the JSS kicking left a bit when it was locked down. If you remember, I discovered that the “toggle” on the underside of the fence, which friction locks the fence to the fence rail, was deflecting and we both agreed that this “may” be causing the fence to move when locked. You were going to do some further analysis at a later time. Now I came back to find those comments and they seem to be gone, erased. I was interested if you had updated your post with a fix after checking it out. I ran across this video which is dedicated to adjusting the JSS fence, but there is no mention of this inherent problem, which you previously had as well. Why no mention of the problem or a fix or solution? Mine still acts up frequently, leaving me with wasting time fiddling with it to keep it square. It’s a real issue. You seem to dust it off in your video, like “if you cant figure it out, i cant help you.” Thats a pretty lame attitude. If you going to review and discuss issues and fixes, why not touch on this? Where are those old comments? Did you ever take your fence apart to see if there was a design flaw? Did you fixx it? Get a new fence from saw stop? Still wondering... still have the same problem.
At 3:45 “good luck with that!!”?? This is what I’m talking about above.
@@stratlix1 I know exactly what you're talking about, and I remember that discussion quite well. I have a special app I wrote that lets me download all comments to all my videos, and lo and behold, you're absolutely correct. That conversation is gone. I know I didn't remove it. So I can only assume UA-cam lost it somehow. UA-cam's comment system is horrendous, and they've had some major crashes the last few months, so my only guess is that they lost it somehow. Doesn't that just give you all sorts of confidence in UA-cam? (grrrr).
As for the problem, no, I don't have a solution. I tried what you recommended, and the thing underneath was definitely skewed to one side, but changing it didn't seem to help. So, sadly, I don't have a solution. I've been using a jig with a dial indicator to move the fence in small increments. That's the only solution I have. I don't know if I showed the jig anywhere or not, but you can see a picture here, even if you don't have SketchUp: 3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/6e5d73a4-4cf4-438f-aba8-6b4960e689de/Micro-Adjuster-Jig-for-Fences
Dan, ok I get it. Thanks for the response. It’s unfortunate that you didn’t chronicle your real experiences with the saw stop fence in your video. If I was someone having the same problem you and I are both are having or have had (and there is likely more folks out there) and was seeking advice from your video, I would have come away still wondering why my fence jumps and doesn’t lock down straight or properly. I believe there is good value in your video, but it would have been better to have discussed and even shown the issue than to just say, if you have a problem “good luck”. I will pursue this issue with Saw Stop when I can and I will post back a solution if I can. Best regards and thanks for your videos, they are well done.
@@stratlix1 You're absolutely correct. I wish I had done that. Oh well, hindsight and all that, right?
I have no idea why people align the fence to the miter slot? This is the first video where they align it to the blade, the miter slot has nothing to do with the fence
Well, the idea is that the miter slot is a fixed position. So if you align the blade to the miter slot, and align the fence to the miter slot, they should match. But I understand what you mean, for sure.
@@TheNewbieWoodworker yeah I have a dewalt jobsite saw I do not trust that those miter slots are perfect, the table has low spots all over the place it’s a real pain
@@jakec788 Interesting! I've heard lots of good things about the dewalts, so that surprises me. But I can see why you don't trust the slots. I guess you have to do whatever works, right? Good luck.