Voyager Reviewed! (by a pedant) S5E09: THIRTY DAYS
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- Опубліковано 11 гру 2024
- Waterworld 2: Judgement Wet.
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![LAVROV's interview with Tucker CARLSON 😁 [Parody]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/mbMemqc-QEk/mqdefault.jpg)
Today's thought experiment: Give me your most unlikely reason for those ancient aliens scooping up all the oceans from a planet.
Thirsty af
Needed to put out a fire on their sun
The recipe called for lots of broth.
Clearly they were the ones responsible for making Janeway's Coffee Nebula. They just hadn't finished brewing it yet.
mermaid people did all their industrial pollution on land figuring it would not hurt the ocean but figure out the environment is more connected then they though to late to clean up the land so they just take the ocean and leave?
or maybe the sun was going to blow up and it seemed easier then a bunch of space ships?
"Tom did a bad. Let's put him in solitary for 30 days."
"Might that not be psychologically damaging, resulting in worse behavior rather than better?"
"I've no idea. The closest thing we have to a psychologist is Neelix."
"Can't we holodeck up one?"
"Not after last week with the Cardassian war criminal, no."
Props to the episode for commenting that the Delta Flier having been built to withstand flying inside a gas giant means it should easily survive going underwater, which you wouldn't normally expect a spaceship to withstand (to quote Futurama, "Given this is a spaceship, I would expect it to withstand anywhere between 0 and 1 [atmosphere's of pressure]!"). Of course, a leak underwater shouldn't be "Oh look, it's a burst pipe" so much as "Raging torrent preceding lethal implosion", but that's just everyday handwaving for Voyager.
Still, I do like this episode, particularly for how it addresses the Prime Directive and environmentalism.
Well, there’s no reason to think it would implode. The Delta Flyer wasn’t built with Carbon Fiber afterall.
I will give Voyager a bit of credit. Tom Paris does, in fact, stay demoted for quite a while to come. His role on the ship doesn't especially change while he's an ensign (It's not like he's not been kicked off the main cast or anything), but they don't just hit the reset button and hand him his missing pip back and forget this episode happened as they have with so, so, sooooo many other episodes.
Too bad they didn't have the sense to reverse the process with Harry.
I have binged watched your content in 2 days. Thank you for your service :)
Glad to have helped. I love finding a new channel with lots of stuff I can binge too.
He called him Flipper, Flipper, faster than lightning. No one, you see, is smarter than he ...
They hate beach vacations with the family
When Harry came to visit Tom, he should have had an extra rank pip...
TOM: "You finally got promoted, eh, Harry?"
HARRY: "Well... yeah. The captain said we were down a lieutenant and had an additional ensign, so..."
(awkward silence)
TOM: "I'm happy for you, Harry. You've earned it."
[Because Tom Paris may be a dick, but he's a good friend]
@@joelellis7035 They should have added that to the actual episode. 🤣
Your snide delivery was perfect for this episode
I like this episode in general. Its not amazing but gives Paris a good motive to do what he does, a good analog for an important issue in our world, and a hint of mystery with the ancient tech.
That said, there are alot of the normal voyager bugbears, so I can't bring myself to love it.
"We open to a view of Paris being demoted to ensign, so I already have a high opinion of this episode..." hahahaha SLAY
But solitary confinement? They banned that punishment when they banned the cat. And I'm not talking about Spot or Grudge, either; I'm talking flogging. So maybe when Tuvok said "shall I flog them" a year ago... he wasn't being sarcastic.
I find is a a bit odd that Janeway confines Paris to the brig with nothing to do and no visitors. This would be deemed cruel and unusual punishment by Amnesty Internations because of the psychological trauma it would cause. But hey-ho: Tuvix.
Also, Paris gets a Lieutenant rank when he firsts gets assigned to Voyager, but Kim is still an Engsign. Then Paris gets demoted here.....and at some point soon, he gets promoted again. All whilst nicey-nice Kim get F-all!
Yeah, solitary confinement is hardly in keeping with the enlightened principles of the Federation. It does raise a question of what would be an effective punishment for a crew who are already essentially prisoners on Voyager though...
@@Unlimited_Lives Being forced to help Neelix in the mess hall?
@@Unlimited_Lives Just equip the brig with stuff to do and have visiting times. Maybe an hour in the holodeck a day that has a gym programmed.
Fair point. While we don't know if he got exercise time, the fact that the single social visit was an afterthough suggests not. Maybe the PADD had a modicum of entertainment on it, but she'd probably make it nothing but a complete back catalogue of Neelix's gossip programme (minus the one with his interview).
I’ve been watching with you. I still miss your original nomenclature. You give the best reviews of these eps! I only wish we had these more often…
Keep them coming!
Funnily enough, a french press is good for making tea from loose leaf. Saves buggering about with a little seive.
RIP Willie Garson
Somebody already pointed it out but the titles wrong. If you have an intern you should probably threaten them with the airlock again...
Aha! I see you've all fallen for my "Get the title wrong to provoke engagement" trick, one of the classic blunders! Next you'll all be going in against a Sicilian when death is on the line!
(fucked it. fixed. cheers.)
@@Unlimited_Lives I hope I'm not the only person that realises your quoting the Princesses Bride
I thought about how Kim was the one to see Paris instead of Blenna and I figured its perhaps because Janeway would have allowed only one visitor during solitude, and Kim is the better choice since he was a friend for longer.
I mean, it's not like there's a large clear door there so sending B'Elana would have been a dick tease.
season 5 really gives a lot of good episodes so far hasn't it
oh boy, only 2 more episodes until my favorite episode Latent Image.
the episode which has pretty much affirmed the EMH's humanity by having him go through a meltdown
I'm delighted to see that a chap has his priorities right over the importance of tea.
Although next time, remember to pick them up on the lack of Battenberg.
Scones would also work.
But then you get into the cream/jam debacle, and that's going to end in a duel.
What was Andrea Bormanis doing? He was the science consultant. Either they weren't using him or he was sending feedback and the writers couldn't be bothered to make the science make sense.
That happens more often than you'd like to think. A lot of shows have consultants simply so they can say "We have consultants" instead of "We checked and, according to our consultant, this is plausible"
the bit where the flyer starts leaking seems quaint now that we all recently learned if craft under many atmospheres of pressure breaches what actually happens is the force of the water splatters the crew to paste like a bomb in confined space.
When dicovering that generator, after defending against that eel, paris suggested to be left there in an enviromental suit ... I thoroughly doubt that this kind of pyjama is able to withstand pressure in a few thousand km depth ^^
Well done! 💚🌹💚
Thank you!
I wiah they had explored Tom Paris dads possibly mentally abusive parenting. Janeway kisses the Admirals arse and Tom gets no real resolution beyond cowtowing to the career hia Dad expected of him.
1:00 the roots are hgh value and easy to store for long time :p
I felt that this episode was hitting us with a moral about ignoring the dangers and impact of human behaviour on our own planet. - Star Trek were big on signalling these kinds of moral issues.
I had to pause this to calm down after the line about the tea how cultural stereotypes would need you to take more seriously than that time she murdered Tuvix😂 on a more serious note I thought you like this one more since we’re getting a little backstory and character development on Paris but you are correct about the science being a bit shit and inconsistent here. I’m actually kinda surprised that having heard not unreasonably seasons 4-7 referred to as the seven of nice show, that season 5 has at least threatened if not delivered character growth on Tom, B’Elanna and Harry even Chakotay got a decent role in Timeless and we circled back to past plot points as the cherry on top.
Why do they never elude to any kind of toilet in the brig and shuttles?! 😂. Holding it in for thirty days is punishment enough 😂. Love your work @Unlimited_Lives !
They never elude to toilets anywhere. I'm just going to assume they teleport the waste out.
assuming the thing in the middle is generating something like Earth gravity should the middle of the water ball be encased in exotic ice?
Also those unhappy waves protruding from the water planet were going pretty fast. Those ripples were probably going at about 1/7 the speed of light. Fast enough to cause heat displacement. In other words, hot plasma. I hate that some sci fi shows cant respect speeds of objects creating energy. Also yes, the ocean planet could not have an atmosphere, but there is a gravity well, and gravity wells do cause energy dispersals when approached.
30 days in solitary confinement? Solitary is torture, it is considered cruel and unusual punishment by several nations and is considered a war crime by a few of them. Ya I get the need for discipline after he committed a terrorist act, but 30 days solitary? That's crossing a damn line. Humans are social creatures and taking that away from us causes both psychological and physical reactions including depression, anxiety, loss of appetite, chronic pain, and several others.
I agree, but I've been struggling to think of another punishment that would be more serious than restriction of privelges and would also be finished in time to not affect the next episode. From the point of view of the script, I suspect it was chosen for the duration rather than the punishment itself. It certainly doesn't fit the Federation ethic though.
@@Unlimited_Lives 30 day confinement with visitation and physical rest breaks. Even in supermax prisons prisoners are allowed at least one hour of fresh air exercise and yard time. Humans are not built for that level of isolation and honestly Janeway might as well have just shot him if she was serious with a 30 day solitary.
Fair point. While we don't know if he got exercise time, the fact that the single social visit was an afterthough suggests not. Maybe the PADD had a modicum of entertainment on it, but she'd probably make it nothing but a complete back catalogue of Neelix's gossip programme (minus the one with his interview).
Here’s something that nobody ever thinks about probably just me, but in the finale when voyager exited that trans warp hub what is that letter transmitted as they’re technically within range of earth
In some way this episode does what voyager does best: wasting potential.
The premise is interesting, but the followup isn't done well.
I always wonder when Voyager transmitted that message to his father. Was it when they established two way communication? Or was it when a Voyager returned to the alpha quadrant?
"Admiral Paris, Voyager has returned......and, hold on, there a message from your son!"
It was set to auto send once they were in transmission range. There were limits over what they could send over the Hirogen network so I imagine all that had to be manually added. So Admiral Paris Voyager has arrived oh and you have a message from your sun was the likely case although I should imagine under normal circumstances the subspace message would have sent as soon as possible so would have been a long range communication from the far reaches of federation space and might have taken weeks to be received and Voyager travel faster.
Well that episode was a bit.....wet.
Gets his coat.
The fluid is denser when dissolved oxygen is removed.
I have a question. Does anyone know when it was first established the Borg were based in the delta quadrant? The first mention of it I can think of is Crusher saying they were in the delta quadrant in first contact. I know the place Q flung the Enterprise D to was something like 2 years from the nearest Federation starbase so I assume that wasn't the delta quadrant.
The Delta Quadrant isn't mentioned in any of the TNG episodes, but it does show up in First Contact, though that did release a little bit after Voyager started--but before the Borg ever appeared.
It's possible that the Borg's base was established earlier in background information or official articles/books/etc.
And, yeah, in Q Who, the one Borg cube is just established as over 7000 light-years away (which, based on Voyager, would be 7 years away). No specific quadrant is mentioned.
@@ZipplyZane Thanks I was curious if I had missed something.
I wonder how Paris knows the exact nature of events that happened when he wasn't in the room.
I remember thinking that the episode was boring, and then thought that the conclusion was annoying as hell.
Despair Squid?
GODDAMN IT! Now I'm upset I didn't make the connection.
@@Unlimited_Lives From one neurodivergent pedant to another, no one can catch them all.
Water leaking in, under deep sea preassure, would smash the crew (or cut them in two)
You got the title wrong again! Unforgivable!
Must be bucking for a demotion as well!
Aha! I see you've all fallen for my "Get the title wrong to provoke engagement" trick, one of the classic blunders! Next you'll all be going in against a Sicilian when death is on the line!
(fucked it. fixed. cheers.)
@@Unlimited_Lives Oh No. We've activated a Trap Card. A Costly Mistake!
Something I didn't get about this episode. Paris's daddy says he can only serve in Starfleet. Um, how can he enforce that? And why didn't Paris tell him to bugger off? It's not as if Starfleet could conscript him. "What are you going to do dad, cut me out of your will? It's not as if we need money to survive any more. Good luck living with that delusion, hurrah for post-scarcity socialist utopia's!"
I always found Jake Sisko to be a dull character, but he does seem to be the only child of a Starfleet character who has shown no interest whatsoever in joining Starfleet, so I'll give him credit where it's due, if only for that unique aspect.
Enforce like legally? no, but Tom still desperately wanted his father’s approval and to not be a disappointment to him so that meant he had to join Starfleet. Many children feel pressured by parents or society into jobs they don’t want I don’t think the future will change that. You can change society views, but humans being are are own worst enemies. I became a Nurse and It was absolutely the wrong choice for me. My mother who was also a nurse tried to discourage me from following in her footsteps so it wasn’t her on anyone else that kept me in a job, where I was on course for a nervous breakdown it was my own beliefs my beliefs.
Them dogs are fucking clever!!!
when it comes to the torpedo fire bullshit:
Voyager & Delta Flyer torpedo's are space torpedos, perhaps air torpedos if they bomb the ground.
they are not designed for water which has, among other things, resistance unlike space.
so I could see why the Delta's Flyer torpedo would be slower than an orbital shot which has the advantage of gravity and thus faster speed.
it being a bullseye shot? we already have that kind of shit like the iron dome, which is pretty much shooting rockets with rockets, and it has a 90% success rate
I have no issue with it managing to intercept a shot, which is why I didn't mention it. My problem is the distances involved. We're saying a comparatively lower tech weapon, Voyager's torpedo, is able to cover a far greater distance in the same time as one souped up by the Borg. Even with the questionable bonus of gravity, Voyager's still has to go through 2km of water. We don't have enough data on the distance fired by the Flyer, but the fact that we can see the target through water tells us it's not far. Those numbers don't sit right, and that's before we ask whether the torpedo would have even survived such a swift descent. We already know the Delta Flyer struggled with a quick dive, and that was build for pressure.
All of which could have been avoided by Voyager firing earlier with a line about the torpedo being programmed to target anything the Flyer launches. Or fired without a goal to get it down there and retargeted on the fly. That would have the bonus of making the detonation closer to the Flyer and further away from the buildings, making disabling the ship more convincing.
Ultimately, the countdown is purely a contrivance for suspense, and the story suffers as a result.
@@Unlimited_Lives when it comes to the tech difrrences.
it is possible that Voyager modified their torpedos the same way that they are in the Delta Flyer.
it is also possible that the torpedos in the Delta Flyer are less powerful than the ones in Voyager itself since its a smaller craft.
And perhaps when it comes to why the Delta Flyer got knocked out but the buildings didn't, the buildings, while being made by a tech inferior race, are still way more resiliant than what we currently have nowdays, and the fact that they appear to survive at such depths for so long means that they can probably survive a blast nearby.
the delta flyer getting knocked up could also be both because of its smaller size and also because of its previous hull damage it gotten from the dive all the way down
You got me curious so I went and had a look at the relative details. The Flyer has standard photon torpedoes, but the weapon Paris uses in this is a photonic missile, which is specifically Borg. If standard photon torpedos were capable of intercepting them, the Borg would have been a significantly lower threat in general, so I'm not convinced that photonic missiles are inferior or even comparable. If they weren't better, why use them?¹
We have no data on Voyager's fireworks having been improved, though their phasers were enhanced in the episode Drone. Had they used that as an excuse for being able to target the missile with a beam, it would have been a reasonable explanation, and they could have had a line about burning out One's upgrades or something so they can't do it again.
¹One potential getout clause here is that photonic missiles *are* slower and Paris used it specifically because he *wanted* it to be intercepted. While Paris sabotaging himself is potentially convincing, I'm still hung up on the tech stuff. It just doesn't ring true that they'd be worse. We have no solid data on them though (inasmuch as *any* Trek data remains solid...), so I can't call it definitively disproven.
Bro... I hate to be that guy. But if you dislike shaving look at the Braun Series 9. I got mine 13 years ago. It has changed my life and the bastard still runs like the day I got it. Pricy, but worth it.
Always appreciate data from someone with more experience. You get what you pay for with some things, so I'll put it on my treat list. Cheers for the info.
Woof Space Dogs. Woof indeed, I'm really not sure about this one. The 'science' really annoyed me but seeing Paris be a 'good guy' with some backstory and growth was nice. Sadly, for me, the science drags it down.
Why are they not losing millions of tonnes of water just from sublimation? There is no shielding or ice layer to stop it.
If there is enough gravity and energy in the system to keep water liquid, doesn't that mean their ships would have to go to a lot of effort to get out of the planet? If they live on the ships, why not just stay in orbit anyway?
Why would adding stuff / removing oxygen screw things up?
Why could the species, who are seemingly water type people, not be able to build a robot probe to get deep enough to check?
Why couldn't anyone add extra reactors etc to the ancient device to give it more juice?
I think this may be my favorite episode not about Seven.
This was a little bit of a pickle, no wonder Voyager and lovely Jennie Wayie were considered very dangerous ppl. They arrive, then they impose "the right thing to do" while chanting about a prime directive of no intervention which is not obeyed except when it's convenient.
If they don't want to be helped, you shouldn't pass over the society of that world, then they protest the Borg policies. Federation should have the slogan "resistance is futile, from now forwards your life as you knew it will change. You will service us"
Anyways. They flew away again
Of course it's stupid to get more mass taking it from the planet itself 🙄
Oxygen, I guess they're getting it like O2 molecules in the water, what fish breathe. It's not like taking O2 from the water molecules. It's not a good idea to use huge amounts of energy for getting that water together, it's not useful. It's big enough to have an atmosphere too 🙄
Man, this episode. It was so close to having a message I could support, only to fall apart at the very end. Honestly, I feel this script in particular could have used a bit of the old Star Trek Optimism that was becoming rarer after the success of Deep Space Nine. Change the ending such that Tom Harris was caught not actually committing terrorism, but spreading the knowledge of what's going on to the masses that the industrialists wanted to remain ignorant. You could even still have Harris punished, while leaving hope that things will change based on his efforts.
That is always a better ending to these kind of episodes. Leaving the ending open. A bit like that Enterprise episode where Phlox decides not to help the people, which might cause the other species on the planet to become dominant in the future. The episode tells those in charge what they need to know, but leaves it to their decision how it turns out.
I thought Paris was a Maquis once. (Season 1, Episode 1) Wouldn't B'elana know that? Then why at the end of your video is she pleased with seeing Paris fight for what's right, even if it's illegal/against orders, like her as a Maquis, as if it's growth on his part? Huh? 🤷🤔 It isn't. He was a Maquis already.
He was hired as a mercenary, he didn't join out of any moral qualms with the cardashians. He didn't want to fight the good fight, he just wanted adventure.
Good memory, but not quite the case. He joined as a mercenary, not as a believer in the cause, and was happy to turn them all over in exchange for his own freedom. His actions here are the opposite of what he was then. From his own mouth in S1E1:
Paris (of Chakotay): "He considered me a mercenary, willing to fight for anyone who'd pay my bar bill. Trouble is, he was right. I have no problem helping you track down my friends in the Maquis, Captain. All I need to know from you is what's in it for me."
I think he was, but like so many things on Voyager (like Naomi Wildman's mother not actually being dead) it seems the writers had forgotten.
@@johnpotts8308 I don't believe she died in any of the episodes... Naomi died when she was born but was duplicated. Naomis real mother technically died but Harry Kim mk2 took her to the original voyager to replace them both.
Ouch, wrong title dude
Aha! I see you've all fallen for my "Get the title wrong to provoke engagement" trick, one of the classic blunders! Next you'll all be going in against a Sicilian when death is on the line!
(fucked it. fixed. cheers.)
@@Unlimited_Lives Ahá! Worked great. 😃
Nothing on the Prime Directive hypocrisy of them getting involved in the first place? Nothing on using the Brig as punishment vs. saying we can't do that to the Maquis. Ok, even for 30 days vs 7 years, who else on this show that doesn't follow orders has ever been given the Brig. For instance Seven (many episodes) or Chakotay in Scorpion2. Nothing on solitary confinement = torture is something we learned in the 20th Century (so much for evolved society).
Prime Directive likely wouldn't apply in this case as they're a spacefaring civilisation who're aware of us and requested our intervention. I guess you could argue it's affecting the natural progression of their culture, but that could apply to pretty much every species through the simple act of contact so it's a non-starter.
As to punishment: Incarceration wasn't an option for the Maquis as, for all they knew, it'd be 70 years. That's just not viable for a craft without a support structure to keep it equipped. I agree that solitary confinement doesn't conform to ethical standards, but I'm struggling to think of any other punishment that wouldn't simply be a loss of privileges. Loss of holodeck time would be minor. Loss of replicator rations was the punishment Chakotay gave Seska for nicking some mushrooms. Hardly appropriate for nearly starting a war. Beyond that you have confinement to quarters, which is basically a staycation.
Maybe she could have applied all 3 (loss of both privileges and confinement when not on duty) for multiple months, but then you're getting in the way of that big red reset button for next week's episode. Can't have Paris getting in to scrapes if he's confined to quarters. You could argue for using the brig without the solitary stipulation I guess but, when there are no other inmates, that's a distinction without a difference.
Not the right titel dude! ;)
Aha! I see you've all fallen for my "Get the title wrong to provoke engagement" trick, one of the classic blunders! Next you'll all be going in against a Sicilian when death is on the line!
(fucked it. fixed. cheers.)
This is one of those bad scripts a million dollars was wasted on because that was how TV worked back then. As I fail at anything cogent to say, I might take a stab at holographic roles on a spaceship. I always felt Kes' role as a hydroponics chief never got the respect she deserved as, if not for replicators this would certainly be as important as engineering or any of the bridge roles, more for microbial regulation critical to human immune response, a niche factor of human health easy to ignore. Humans need dirt for the same reason; to educate our own immune system and thus regulate our own internal biota for maximum health. Sure, we can replicated proteins or whatever; they real issue is microbial diversity. Sadly, this is too obscure and boring. Another hologram would be chef, again because the nuts and bolts of life on a ship are too boring to devote a human to. And, it goes without saying, any legal officer is best made a hologram as their advice will be ignored and all legal decisions made by the captain, so we'll want to be able to turn them off.
The ‚science‘ of this episode was abhorrently shit. The very basics of he most simple physics were fucked up and openly contradicting.
Eh… never was a fan of this one. It just felt so pointless in the grand scheme of things.