Two points. Firstly, the missing bufferbeam detail - 6:03 - is, I'd imagine, a plate to protect the AWS gear, which the LNER didn't use, so the omission is correct on a pre-Nationalisation loco. Secondly, the Cartazzi axle employed by the LNER is not a pony truck, so Hornby is correct in this. A pivoting Cartazzi truck is actually wrong, however much it is needed on the tighter curves that many modellers employ.
Hard luck. Some of us buy our locos mostly for display, and such details as the rear Cartazzi are essential to get right. Memories of the efforts to build up a Cartazzi to fill the unsightly gap on the Hornby A4 many decades ago.
The rear wheels on the prototype were not mounted in a pivoting pony truck, but in in a Cartazzi truck, where the axle boxes were fixed, and the wheel set moved transversely within them, hence the model is true to the original.
Hi Sam, thanks for a great review! My local model shop currently has eight of these models at a heavily discounted price for factory defects and faults despite being completely brand new, so you're absolutely right that these models have very shoddy build quality to say the least. Plus, the paint flecks and glue marks (particularly the horrible one on the cab hand rail at 11:40) were giving me a real eye twitch, so definitely going to give this one a pass! Such a shame Hornby are clearly prioritising the interests of their shareholders over the ones of their customers!
Not going to lie, I was really thinking of picking up an H. loco recently, I think I'll just get something else from Bachmann instead. At least with heavy weathering the dodgy paint wouldn't be too noticeable.
I think the question isn't so much whether the "fixed truck/dummy wheels" solution is more accurate than the old "pivoting pony truck" solution Hornby used to do- because of course it's more accurate- but whether it's *desirable*. There's a tendency among some to be snobbish about "tight radius curves" and a stance of "Well, you should be running industrial 0-4-0s, if you're running *that* sort of 'train set' layout". I can understand the perspective of modellers who don't want to see accuracy compromised- but, at the same time, the 'floating dummy wheels' look rather silly anyway- probably not much sillier than the 'pony truck and rear frames swing out from under the cab' look of the old style models, and also, most model railways do start with a train set. If the push for accuracy means that children starting out in the hobby find they can't run a "Flying Scotsman" or similar, in 00 scale, then I suspect we all end up suffering- and indeed, *have* ended up suffering, as Hornby and other manufacturers tailor their larger models specifically for the high-end advanced hobbyists only, and get away with charging higher end prices. Of course, "railroad" is in theory supposed to be the answer to that- but as far as I'm aware the current Railroad Pacifics have the same problem.
I only ever bought one example LNER Pacific of any design until the swivelling Bissel-type nonsense - and the hours I spent building up that rear frame to make it look like a Cartazzi I'll never forget. if either Hornby or Bachmann return to a toy trailing arrangement, I won't be buying any more of their X-X-2 arrangement models.
Give 'em heaps mukka. A complete farce of a model. The gouging mongrels at Hornby deserve every adverse comment. I have a feeling the crappy paint and quality issues could be because they have found even a cheaper builder than their regular one. It’s bad enough it is built in China in the first place but this is a real embarrassment. All in all, it seems to be an accurate depiction of a Thompson loco! 😂 Cheers from Oz Gaz
It’s an interesting and satisfying turn of events that they’re reportedly losing millions in revenue and have a warehouse full of stock they cannot shift. This should be a lesson to them that they’re charging much more than their customer base can afford/want to pay. I doubt it will be a lesson learned.
Mike Ashley has agreed to act as a consultant to Hornby as his retail empire continues to build a stake in the business. Ashley will provide support to Hornby CEO to add value to shareholders Frasers Group last month upped its stake in Hornby to 8.9% Obviously customers don’t get a say.
I take issue with the common retelling of the history of the Thompson Pacifics. Simon A.C. Martin’s book Edward Thompson Wartime C.M.E. sets the record straight using records that previous historians did not have access too.
There is a new school Thompson apologist who have only come to light since all those who were alive at the time and who knew both Gresley and Thompson are no longer alive to discuss things. Try reading the work of OS Nock, who knew both men, and had first-hand running experience with (or indeed Peter Townend, Shedmaster at King's Cross). Both knew a bit more on the subject than those alive now.
I have Chamossaire in LNER apple green and Sun Castle in BR green. I agree the livery on both is washed out which is the biggest issue for me personally and the quality contol on these models is a bit hit and miss and I've heard of others having issues. However both of my models are excellent runners, the running gear is very impressive and overall I'm happy with them at the price I paid, £117 & 118 inc P&P NEW. I certainly wouldn't recommend them at the RRP, but if you can pick them up for £120 or less then I'd say they're not bad.
I don't know much about the A2/3, so thank you for taking a look at one. There are also four A2/1s that were built from incomplete V2s, which Hornby has yet to model. I think the finish on this model reflects how LNER apple green was applied after WWII. The builders plate does look a bit messy to me.
What I appreciate about your reviews is that you point out the good points of a model but you hold the manufacturer accountable for their lack of quality and shortcomings in the product. If Hornby is supposed to be the standard (I am from the States)in the UK and charge a premium price then there should be be accountability. I am glad you help the working class folks know how and where they spend their hard earned money.
I bought Chamossaire, the other LNER apple green A2/3 from Hattons at the reduced price. With my example the running plate is flat but the left smoke deflector is slightly wonky. Overall it's been a great performer on my layout and for the performance at slower speeds is incredible. The original price is completely ridiculous, Hornby definitely needs to improve quality to justify their prices. Also great review as always.
@@Decrepit_bikerof course that's probably true, but not only is this not intended on a model, but an effect like that would not translate well in a smaller scale
@@nick-dm3ifBachmann Branchline is actually quite good, as the detail on their models is similar to their spectrum models over in the states. They tend to use better mechanisms than Bachmann USA though, and their models run far better than anything I’ve seen from their US brand, at least with their more recent models.
So, you review the A2/2 and decide you don't like it, then two years later I wonder why you bother to review a model designed, manufactured and released at the same time that shares 90% of the tooling. I wonder why, or rather I don't, I know why. No reviews of any of Hornby's very well regarded recent releases such as the APT, 87, 91, HST, Jubilee Model, Dublo Scotsman. UA-cam bucks drying up?
Thank you for going back to the A2 and reviewing the A2/3 version Sam. I was initially tempted a bit by the Hattons' last bargain price point on these having been put off by your comments on the earlier version. I went for an earler LNER black A3 in the end which has a metal running plate so hopefully no warping. A bit of a shame the execution on this model wasn't great as it's one of the few big pacifics that noone had modelled in 00.
I saw 'Edward Thompson' many times as she used to work Peterborough-Kings Cross trains. I bought an A2/2 a few weeks ago and it seems much better than the sample you had.
Great review again Sam. Having seen H's latest annual report, it is more than crystal clear that they are stuck with piles of unsold stock... We can see items returned en masse constantly due to ongoing unforgivable and infuriating issues due to lack of any trivial quality manufacturing principles, which should be in place for prices they are asking, and we can see piles of non moving stock caused by pricing not matching for what H items actually are (mediocre at best). The sheen would be fine for us though. Steamers weren't even near glossy, as they looked industrious and since paints back then simply looked more faded. We are at a bit of a loss why train modellers would like glossy models as they look like toy grade anyway; just doesn't work. Subject to personal preference of course. Anyway, this would have been an immediate return we guessed (warping, finger print marks, glue marks, wonky parts) and great that you continue exposing H. Cheerio.
I have to agree. I recently bought a new Princess Coronation class which was a non runner straight out of the box. Gone straight back for a refund, won't be buying Hornby any more, just not worth the hassle. And this is not to mention the numerous motor failures I have had too.
When it comes to the rear wheels Sam, its worth mentioning that it's actually closer to the original locomotives if it doesn't move- the full size engines used Cartazzi axleboxes and thus the rear wheelset doesn't pivot at all (technically meaning its not a pony truck), with the axle moving inside the axlebox instead! Its difficult to replicate in small scales hence the use of blind wheels
It’s isn’t really as difficult as you make out I’m afraid, bachmann years ago used to do it on their Pacific locomotives like for example the Peppercorn A2s where the rear truck was fixed but then inside you had a separate piece that the wheels would attached to and then they could move from side to side.
@@davidstrains4910 I know its not too difficult, but doing it this way has been the norm in OO for several decades now, especially on Eastern region locos
@@davidstrains4910 True, but the compromise there is the area bellow the cab is out of scale and too wide. There is no way to accurately model a Cartazzi truck in small scale and have a locos go round tighter curves like R2 or R3.
@@1maico1 OO scale as a whole is a compromise anyway so why would an out of scale and to wide area below the cab be such an issue, the whole locomotve is already compromised because it is actually bigger than it is supposed to be, the fact that bachmann made a system of having a part move side to side inside the cartazzi frame on the chassis of their Pacific locomotives those being mainly the Peppercorn A1s and A2s and I think they did the same on some of their Gresley A4s when they were still making them it just shows that while it may have to be a wide area and out of scale it is possible to have a model of a pacific locomotive and have all the wheels flanged and moving when the model is running and have the model negotiate R3 and R2 curves, it may be out of scale but it really doesn’t detract from the model when it’s running, when I look at my bachmann A2 running I don’t even notice that the cartazzi area is out of scale, one last thing what about the locomotives that don’t have cartazzi arrangements, locomotives like the LMS Pacific’s, the standard Pacifics, the southern region Merchant Navys and Battle of Britain’s/West Country, why should they not have pony trucks that can swivel left and right, hornby used to do that on their early merchant navy models and it looked and worked fine, I just don’t like the system of shoving flangeless wheels in on pacific steam locomotives, I would rather have all flanged wheels and accept the compromises because let’s be honest here like I said before the whole concept of OO is a compromise.
Very interesting video Sam, I find the overall view of the loco so wonderful, it stirs my emotions as I feel the real thing pounding along the east coast main to Edinburgh, and that is speaking as an LMS man which is what I am! Re the poor sales of them, the true LNER man hates Thompson with a passion, for rebuilding the wonderful 2-8-2 locos built for Aberdeen runs into pacifics and they never forgave him, thanks for the entertainment, very enjoyable, best wishes, Pete
You forgot the deliberate vandalism of Gresley's very first Pacific (GN 1470 'Great Northern) into the most unsightly, ghastly mess you could ever imagine. And as if to rub in his hatred of Gresley (remember Thompson was from NER stock, not GN), upon completion, he painted the by then 4470 in Great Eastern Blue (high gloss and full finish, right in the middle of wartime), as if to remove any trace of the locomotive's origins altogether. Thompson was not just a nasty piece of work - he was a joke too.
Sam you don’t know how much I’ve been wanting you to do this Thompson Pacific. Ever watching Flying Scott’s videos on Thompson’s engines, I’ve come to accept, appreciate, and even like the A2/2-3. They were just wartime engines that had to be made because a lack of traction.
All Thompson needed to do was complete the order for the remaining V2s (magnificent locomotives) rather than meddle. Indeed at his job interview with Andrew McCosh (he of 60003), Thompson said that he wouldn't interfere with locomotive stock...
@@paulcaswell2813 really? That’s very interesting. While the V2’s no doubt would been safer to build (since it’s been apparent that they work well), I don’t blame him using the V2’s base as a test bed for his own design.
Good overall review here Sam, luckily a my a2/2 has been a really good model since I bought it nearly last year, I will admit the green isn’t that good but it doesn’t really bother me, I’m definitely going to be looking for the A2/3 at some point, I think the one I’m looking for is called Sun Castle because that is in the BR green with the late crest but I would definitely be up for looking at getting one in the LNER green, I really like Thompson pacific locomotives they have some real character and knowing the actual history on them is fantastic.
Don't know about you, but I would have accepted the drawbacks in the finish if the model was sold for GBP130. For GBP 100 more, it's an absolute no-go for me : you have Railroad models far better than this one on finish; And I don't speak about what you can get for GBP 170 from Accurascale... The mechanism is acceptable, if you don't mind the outdated features (8 pin decoder socket...) and the lack of flywheel. The performances are correct, albeit overspeeding for my taste. At least, you can run this engine... Overall, too much issues for too much money, a no-go for me. If I'm ready to pay a German price, I'll buy a German engine. Not an Hornby one with an Ali Express quality. About slashed prices, you have the SECR C class in SR black at TMC, sold for GBP 103 from an original retailer's price of GBP 205, if you're interested for a review, if not already done (can't remember)...
When you can get the A1 Doncaster from TMC with diecast running board, much better finish, nice cab detail, much better quality for £126, at time of writing...why would you buy this monster..?. Just out of interest @samstrains how does the finish compare to the Hornby P2 railroad version, as this is quite plasticy...?
Interesting to see this review just after Jenny Kirk’s review of the outstanding Hornby A1 which was actually £20 cheaper than this one from TMC… Strange that the quality of Hornby varies so much from one model to another
11:46: They even messed up the builder's plate, as there's a chunk missing from it, almost as if something took a bite out of it before it was "installed" (painted) onto the side of the cab! 11:50: The red lining on the left side of the trailing truck looks a bit wonky, and doesn't quite match the curve at the bottom of the truck. 17:29: The gauges in the cab are actually painted WAY off-center, making them look more like reverse-colored egg yolks than actual gauges. And you've already mentioned the horrible finish to this borderline plastic-tat of a locomotive. Who painted this model, and, more importantly, WHO APPROVED IT?!
The green looks more like a shade of BR Apple Green rather than a proper LNER Doncaster green. I will say though, this model looks significantly nicer than the A2/2, though that's probably more due to the designs of the locomotives.
Well that sort of figures when you think about it as that would've been the colour that br inherited them in. It's also worth bearing in mind that lner green varied massively. There was no guarantee bathes of paint being supplied to sheds all along the entire lner network would be entirely consistent, in fact they very rarely were. Also, Darlington and Doncaster were famously noted for using entirely different shades altogether throughout the companies existence. All of this a very long winded way of saying there's not really any such thing as a right or wrong when it comes to shades of lner green
I feel like Hornsby did the Thompson Pacifics quite dirty as even thought they have a more modern tooling, in my opinion they will never be as fantastic compared to the old and new Hornby Gresley pacifics
Maybe Hornby have taken realism too far this time. My grandfather was a LNER driver and he hated driving any of the Thompson rebuilds so you never know......
Hi sam I hope you are well Am early I know sorry For me this a2/3 is better than a2/2 Just need a2/1 For me 500 Edward Thompson is fantastic model runs well. Am not sure if apple green or Doncaster green the livery They slight difference Thank you for your opinion on the model Thank you for sharing your models with us Keep safe ARP
Saw this in Oz 4 hours after you were supposed to have posted it and all of the Hatton's reduced price A2/3 locos are gone. Surprise, surprise the preorder stock is at the full price.
As others have pointed out the rear frame/ axle configuration is more accurate. What Hornby do that is REALLY ANNOYING is when they do this to locomotives that actually did have a pivoting rear truck("Delta" truck, essentially an American design concept).All Southern pacifics,all BR standard pacifics and the last 2 LMS pacifics had delta trucks. Do your research Hornby!
Hi Sam, I don't recall you ever telling us the gradient of the "Gordon Hill" as a reference 1%, 2%, 3% if you could, can you refresh that to us when mentioning the name of the hill. All though it would be an even better Idea if you could have all three Hill grades. The lowest 1% to the inside loop and 3% maximum to the outside loop. I don't know if a mainline gradient in real-life one to one scale would be any steeper than a 3% ascent. the steepest I've seen was a 2.5%. Thank you Sam for all you do in these videos.
I bought one of these just over a year ago and it is very good, DCC V5 Loksound bought for it at the same time. It runs very well. My boiler is better than yours. My running plate isn't warped. When I'm running in I do it 15 minutes forward in each direction the 15 mins backward in both directions. Don't be so critical, a loco in real life would slow down going up an incline.
Hi Sam , I really like and look forward to your reviews/videos but I do find the track on the floor rather funny …………….. it reminds me of my childhood (I’m most certainly not criticising), keep up the good work!
I guess the £119 price is a lot better than £229 but given all the imperfections it has I would've thought a more realistic price would be well under £100.
"wheels are touching the track, which is more than can be said about some other locos from Hornby" Ouf some QA needed over at horny manufacturing eh? Oh my god some gaping design holes in the boiler? this is not good, at worst seam but holes are unacceptable. Hmm if it is at least mechanically sound than it could be sold as kit instead of made engine? clearly hobbyists would give it more care and love when assembling AND it'd save coin. Kit sets are also rather beloved historic form of selling things on cheap.
Hopefully with a new person at the helm it will usher in improved quality control instead of the 'get them out on the shelves' mentality which was the root of Mazak Rot. No more warped plastic running boards. Improved after sales Customer Service. In short a vast improvement on who has shortly departed that role.
Hey Sam, I have been wanting to get into the hobby and love all the British locos. Only problem is, I'm over here in America. Do you have any good tips for what I should do?
nah man... colour looks.... almost southern in a way? either way that's not LNER green man shame... shame... could have been a nicer model if the colour alone was done right :/ shame..
My a2 was so poor! It touched the track and the whole thing burnt out I decided to demand hornby fix it (free of charge) which they did and I sold it on as its just garbage
On the inside of the cab a lot of the paint seems to of come Of the detail like pipes and onto the background, to me this is so annoying as it used to be a lot cleaner but seems to be worse and worse the more videos I watch from yourself, is this just not that noticeable in person and I’m being over picky?
Does anyone think that it is because that they have moved the actual manufacturing to china? I hear that things are getting worse over there. If they do not have a quality control person then the quality could be suffering.
A frustrating aspect to this and a trend I have seen in Hornby's QA of late is that where a viable alternative could come along (or already exists) they take their QA very seriously e.g. Lion / A3 / A4 etc. However, where it's unlikely that a competitor model will come to light as their is a niche market e.g. APT / A2's / W1 it is more likely to fall down. The painting on this and the clans that were released within a few months of each other, was really quite poor but the more recent releases suggest this was a blip. Nevertheless, it's gives me pause for thought at ordering a P2, where a Bachmann example would not.
Hi Sam, I don't think there was a out one out, but I did spot the A4, A3, A2 and 2 A1, (see what I did there) and one of them was tornado. Hopefully I got them all :) Cheers Jasper & Willow
I like a mat finish over a satin finish, providing it still looks metallic and not plastic. Wonder if most modellers prefer satin? I wouldn't get this model though, due to the warped running plate.
The rear truck on the Marklin Flying Scotsman in HO manages to have a well finessed scale look and still function, so that now Hornby aspires to Marklin pricing they need to aspire to Marklin standards of engineering.
@@gilbertporter4992 I don't know if it is being delivered and then I think it is only for their collectors club, but I saw one on display in a show in Sweden by Marklin, and it is beautiful as the Marklin limited edition models are. It is expensive, but fully loaded with lights, firebix, smoke, sound etc and all diecast and priced similarly than equally hard to get Hornby Dublo models with digital and sound. A feature I particularly liked was that all the boiler bands are separately fitted parts as well as functioning rear truck.
We can't wait to receive ours! Expected in Q4 this year and has been obtained via pre-order reservation, although we have been lucky being one of the last ones accepted (pfew). The model is just astoundingly detailed in full die cast (including tender) and fully loaded. Expensive as M always is but they deliver manufacturing perfection. At every stage of production the item is checked, checked, checked and checked again... We've never ever received one with the slightest fault or issue. The British OO market is very different though..., extremely price driven and squeezing out every penny of quick profits they can..., causing constant pressure without any regards for healthy basic quality principles, and hardly any customers willing to pay for flawless quality... A different world... Having seen a vid on H production (but also others such as Rapido) left us shocked tbh, mais soit.
@@lindaoffenbach I would note that Hornby's relaunch of Dublo where they are putting a diecast body over their "cooking" mechanism and attaching a standard tender (the Wrenn models used Triang tenders as they did not buy the Dublo tooling for the tinplate tenders) is pushing price levels when you add sound and digital to Marklin levels. £362 with no sound / lights compared Dublo with £520 fully loaded Marklin Flying Scotsman. I also note tge Dublo models sell out before delivery so there is a demand in the UK for higher end models.
LNER engines are not my favourite with older GE & GC being ones I liked. I didn't like either Gresley or Thomson locos. OK the A3 is quite a fine looking loco but not as good as Peppercorn's A1. I never understood why the LNER needed so many Pacifics a fault that Bullied also perpetuated on the Southern. An interesting and yes it is seriously over priced for what it is.
A 392-mile main line from The Cross to Edinburgh needed a LOT of heavy express engines, not to mention the Leeds run from Donny. The A2s were superb on the Aberdeen road too. Comparison with the tiny Southern hardly holds water.
The way they have the coupling missing in the front of the locomotive reminds me of the Mantua Tyco locomotives that they built from the 1960s straight-through 1980s. they did not have couplers on the front pilot for the Pacific and mikados.. even the draw bar is similar to this one ,screws on both ends. It looks like a nice model but I do agree with quality issues can't be giving it a good score
Two Startling Pieces of Irony in this review is that the moveable rear pony that everyone want ONLY EXISTED IN PREVIOUS UTTERLY INACCURATE HORNBY OR BACHMAN MODELS. All LNER Pacifics used the Cartazzi truck for stability and comfort. Hornby Dublo prewar A4 models made the hole of the rear assembly behind the last driving Wheel and below the footplate a big moving lump to get around 1st radius Tinplate track. The did the same to the duchess 462 as well, so our assumptions are that this accurate representation is inaccurate!! The second is with color…. That is even more subjective…. What we find pleasing is usually inaccurate for all manner of reasons. Would love to know if the subcontractor who did these for Hornby did anything before……. This fetish for Metal running plates is asking for trouble as anyone who has experience with high volume Die-casting will know. Märklin/Trix have pulled it off there is a reason their models are so expensive.
Thanks very sharing - very interesting on the colour! That just isn’t true about die-casting though; almost all of Bachmann’s locos have diecsst running plates with no problems at all. Many of Hornby’s do too, including an A1 that’s roughly the same price as this.
@@SamsTrains Hornby's GRESLEY A1 (1470 in original GNR condition) remains one of the finest 00 models ever sold. The attention to detail - even to the short-travel valve gear - compared with the A3's long-travel, was amazing. Not to mention the higher boiler fittings and cab, built for the GN loading gauge. And the livery was superbly applied. Surprise surprise - I've discovered it was made by the SK Hornby factory - they really did produce works of art.
@@SamsTrainsPeople hold Bachmann up as being superb - do you remember their first batch of Pep A1s having a recall on them, as they wouldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding???
I just felt your disappointment. Running qualities seem good. If this is now being sold for about £119 then it's found it's level. Looking on the bright side nothing seems to have fallen off.
In all honesty, maybe locomotives don’t need flywheels. Although, they shouldn’t be priced so high, that is just gonna make people not wanna buy the product. Sadly that is something a lot of manufacturers like Mattel especially do not understand.
All the hype that the rictus grinning Simon Kohler gives out , you would think that every item Hornby kicks out was totally faultless - he needs a reality check. The prices they are charging would support British manufacture of Hornby locos instead of Chinese sourced , marginal quality products ( at an ex works price of $30 per loco ) - not a bad mark up to £220 +
@@paulcaswell2813 of course the quality went up - they invested in new tooling in China - why not here ? Rising costs in the Far East will ultimately force decisions to be made regarding outsourcing of production - this is already happening in the electronics sector with major players such as Foxconn moving out of China. Hornby will have the same dilemma - they should start bringing the tooling back and kickstart some manufacture here.
@@fraserhardmetal7143I also have an interest in model vintage cars. CMC (Classic Model Cars), a Germany-based firm, make some of the finest car models available, for which they are charging c.£700-£800. They're made in China. If they were made in Europe popular opinion is that they would be £2,000 or more a go...
I was considering one of these simply because they are odd and a bit different looking but to me it looks like theyve stuck a railroad body on a railways chasis. The livery is pretty naff and a noticeable seam on the boiler is a big no these days. Its like that'll do when they clearly know how to do it right. You can't tell me it costs that much more to produce !!
I've been meaning to get one of these for a while, but was put off by your a2/2 review (plus I have a kitbuilt a2/2 so am not getting a hornby one). But now its severely reduced, I'll be considering one more.
After seeing the pics of the Accurascale Manor's I can't help but be upset with Hornby. How can you ask more than Accurascale and not deliver on the detail??? Accurascale Manor: £169.99 Features: Fully-detailed cab interior with loads of separate parts Die-cast metal chassis, running plate and body Etched metal pre-painted name and numberplates Etched metal headboards And a LED Firebox. 21 pin Decoder Socket Hornby's NEW LNER A2/3: From a retailer £229.04 (£60 more than Accurascale's Manor) Features: Fully-detailed cab interior, not many separately fitted parts No - Die-cast running plate and body No - Etched metal pre-painted name and numberplates No - Etched metal headboards No - LED Firebox. 8 Pin - Outdated Decoder Socket Hornby want £60 more for less detail than; a small incomparison to Hornby, Accurascale can deliver! At this point if Accurascale do a version of something you may as well not bother looking at the competition have to offer as they are only going to try and charge you more for less.
Ouch! a grade E. I understand your point in your evaluation. For the money you should expect almost perfection. Same problem with American manufacturers. I like Athern Genesis series with Soundtraxx decoder from the get go which have excellent details. Just got my first steam loco a UP 844 - Alco FEF-3 (four-eight-four), a real beauty. I model based on the Los Angeles area (not prototypical.) with mostly UP and BNSF, with Amtrak, California trains, and local regional Metrolink. I always like the British trains even that I still can't figure out your locomotive class system. I know that the class C66 is an EMD build for some private railroads.
This Hornby A2/3 is a decent model but the quality on its body and the price from Hornby both suck. Plus, the locomotive and tender connection is really out of date because Hornby have redesign their older models like the A1/A3 and the A4 pacifics to have the more modern connection which Dapol use. I really do not like the Thompson A2/1, A2/2 and A2/3 in real life along with model form Sam.
If I remember these locos were the ones where Hornby changed Chinese manufacturers so tons of quality issues. Added to that this was the time they bought in the tier system and put Hattons on the bottom of it, as they cancelled my orders of this loco. To think I was worried I wouldn't get one, how wrong was I. I have just picked up two A1s in TMCs sale for half price, so yes Hornby seem to be having issues selling their models. Compared to other manufacturers I think Hornby are 10% overpriced assuming decent quality control which they obviously don't have. Good review though, thanks. I am beginning to understand why the disciples on the Hornby website dislike your reviews, that don't seem to be able to see reality.
I bought this model at the 'reduced' price from Hattons, I had a problem with my original model after running in it just stopped working completely I returned it to Hattons who replaced my model, while I do accept all your criticism especially the shade of the green, as a new comer to the hobby this is a really good runner, it will pull a good rake of both carriages at express speeds, which my grandson loves, but also a mixed rake of wagons at a more reasonable speed very smoothly with very few derailing problems, to have a large powerful loco like this at the price Hattons charged is really good for a beginner to the hobby but I can understand why an established model collector would be disappointed, both my grandson and I love your videos and they have been a great help to us getting up and running in the hobby thank you Sam
I purchased a Chamossaire from Hattons a few weeks ago for £114 including P/P. The quality control was good & the performance was fine. It crawls well and copes with the radius 1 & 2 curves on my second hand track . If you are lucky with the quality control & can get one for this sort of price it is good value considering Hornby want £49.99 for a RailRoad 0-4-0
Sorry but the paint still looks really like washed out by long time exposure to the sun. Not as bad as the other one, but still looks really bad especially when running with others of the same livery. Gives a toy-like look while running. Don't mind the design of the real ones, the cylinder placement gives them a pretty massive and functional look.
I wouldn't buy any model of a Thompson engine. He ruined a good engine. As for Bachmann their engines can't take tight radius curves and frequently derail or fall off the track.
Lol. Quality production is perfectly possible in China since so many years. It's a matter of setting it up and making sure the owner(s) and managers have been American or European educated. This is what I have seen working well over there in 2009 already. Another direction is setting up a holding in Shanghai, buying a factory in China and having it run by German managers, including constant capital expenditures reserved for high investment into automation. The latter is how PIKO have done it and their quality is flawless upon arrival here. What simply doesn't work is the typical Anglo Saxon cottage way of conduction business which is concentrated around quick profits, low investment management and constant focus on cutting corners to cheap out. This is how H operates... I've seen it.
I have a real emotional regard for all the British steam being painted that lovely green, but this colour looks much the same as apple green. I think the standard loco colour is called Brunswick Green. Maroon coaches too remind me of childhood. Quite a dignified colour scheme.
Another interesting review! Yes, it looks like a rather over-priced model at the RRP. I wonder if that flat plasticky look could be given some lustre by spraying the body with satin sealer??
Two points. Firstly, the missing bufferbeam detail - 6:03 - is, I'd imagine, a plate to protect the AWS gear, which the LNER didn't use, so the omission is correct on a pre-Nationalisation loco.
Secondly, the Cartazzi axle employed by the LNER is not a pony truck, so Hornby is correct in this. A pivoting Cartazzi truck is actually wrong, however much it is needed on the tighter curves that many modellers employ.
Hard luck. Some of us buy our locos mostly for display, and such details as the rear Cartazzi are essential to get right. Memories of the efforts to build up a Cartazzi to fill the unsightly gap on the Hornby A4 many decades ago.
The rear wheels on the prototype were not mounted in a pivoting pony truck, but in in a Cartazzi truck, where the axle boxes were fixed, and the wheel set moved transversely within them, hence the model is true to the original.
Hi Sam, thanks for a great review! My local model shop currently has eight of these models at a heavily discounted price for factory defects and faults despite being completely brand new, so you're absolutely right that these models have very shoddy build quality to say the least. Plus, the paint flecks and glue marks (particularly the horrible one on the cab hand rail at 11:40) were giving me a real eye twitch, so definitely going to give this one a pass! Such a shame Hornby are clearly prioritising the interests of their shareholders over the ones of their customers!
Not going to lie, I was really thinking of picking up an H. loco recently, I think I'll just get something else from Bachmann instead. At least with heavy weathering the dodgy paint wouldn't be too noticeable.
I think the question isn't so much whether the "fixed truck/dummy wheels" solution is more accurate than the old "pivoting pony truck" solution Hornby used to do- because of course it's more accurate- but whether it's *desirable*. There's a tendency among some to be snobbish about "tight radius curves" and a stance of "Well, you should be running industrial 0-4-0s, if you're running *that* sort of 'train set' layout".
I can understand the perspective of modellers who don't want to see accuracy compromised- but, at the same time, the 'floating dummy wheels' look rather silly anyway- probably not much sillier than the 'pony truck and rear frames swing out from under the cab' look of the old style models, and also, most model railways do start with a train set.
If the push for accuracy means that children starting out in the hobby find they can't run a "Flying Scotsman" or similar, in 00 scale, then I suspect we all end up suffering- and indeed, *have* ended up suffering, as Hornby and other manufacturers tailor their larger models specifically for the high-end advanced hobbyists only, and get away with charging higher end prices.
Of course, "railroad" is in theory supposed to be the answer to that- but as far as I'm aware the current Railroad Pacifics have the same problem.
I only ever bought one example LNER Pacific of any design until the swivelling Bissel-type nonsense - and the hours I spent building up that rear frame to make it look like a Cartazzi I'll never forget. if either Hornby or Bachmann return to a toy trailing arrangement, I won't be buying any more of their X-X-2 arrangement models.
£229 new full price - No wonder Hornby trading figures are so poor. Simon you’re well rid …. 😵😵💫🤪
Give 'em heaps mukka. A complete farce of a model. The gouging mongrels at Hornby deserve every adverse comment.
I have a feeling the crappy paint and quality issues could be because they have found even a cheaper builder than their regular one. It’s bad enough it is built in China in the first place but this is a real embarrassment.
All in all, it seems to be an accurate depiction of a Thompson loco! 😂
Cheers from Oz
Gaz
It’s an interesting and satisfying turn of events that they’re reportedly losing millions in revenue and have a warehouse full of stock they cannot shift. This should be a lesson to them that they’re charging much more than their customer base can afford/want to pay. I doubt it will be a lesson learned.
Mike Ashley has agreed to act as a consultant to Hornby as his retail empire continues to build a stake in the business. Ashley will provide support to Hornby CEO to add value to shareholders
Frasers Group last month upped its stake in Hornby to 8.9% Obviously customers don’t get a say.
I take issue with the common retelling of the history of the Thompson Pacifics. Simon A.C. Martin’s book Edward Thompson Wartime C.M.E. sets the record straight using records that previous historians did not have access too.
There is a new school Thompson apologist who have only come to light since all those who were alive at the time and who knew both Gresley and Thompson are no longer alive to discuss things. Try reading the work of OS Nock, who knew both men, and had first-hand running experience with (or indeed Peter Townend, Shedmaster at King's Cross). Both knew a bit more on the subject than those alive now.
I have Chamossaire in LNER apple green and Sun Castle in BR green.
I agree the livery on both is washed out which is the biggest issue for me personally and the quality contol on these models is a bit hit and miss and I've heard of others having issues. However both of my models are excellent runners, the running gear is very impressive and overall I'm happy with them at the price I paid, £117 & 118 inc P&P NEW.
I certainly wouldn't recommend them at the RRP, but if you can pick them up for £120 or less then I'd say they're not bad.
I don't know much about the A2/3, so thank you for taking a look at one. There are also four A2/1s that were built from incomplete V2s, which Hornby has yet to model. I think the finish on this model reflects how LNER apple green was applied after WWII. The builders plate does look a bit messy to me.
100% true. Standards had dropped since pre-war days.
What I appreciate about your reviews is that you point out the good points of a model but you hold the manufacturer accountable for their lack of quality and shortcomings in the product. If Hornby is supposed to be the standard (I am from the States)in the UK and charge a premium price then there should be be accountability. I am glad you help the working class folks know how and where they spend their hard earned money.
I bought Chamossaire, the other LNER apple green A2/3 from Hattons at the reduced price. With my example the running plate is flat but the left smoke deflector is slightly wonky. Overall it's been a great performer on my layout and for the performance at slower speeds is incredible. The original price is completely ridiculous, Hornby definitely needs to improve quality to justify their prices. Also great review as always.
I was standing next to Scotman on Monday, even the real locos have running plates that aren't straight!
@@Decrepit_bikerReal ones aren't as wonky as the one on this A2/3 though
@@lukeslocomotivesagreed, the warp is a bit worse on this model, but it's surprising just how imperfect the prototypes actually are.
@@Decrepit_bikerof course that's probably true, but not only is this not intended on a model, but an effect like that would not translate well in a smaller scale
😂as if they ever care what their customers want
Hornby have lost the plot. I find more and more that I buy Bachmann mostly and the odd Dapol and Accurascale.
Sounds like yall need to find a different company over there and start building some american railways lol we got some insane models over here.
@nick-dm3if I like US switchers and own several and a WWI steam locomotive but for me, the other locos look too similar and are uninteresting.
@@nick-dm3ifBachmann Branchline is actually quite good, as the detail on their models is similar to their spectrum models over in the states. They tend to use better mechanisms than Bachmann USA though, and their models run far better than anything I’ve seen from their US brand, at least with their more recent models.
So, you review the A2/2 and decide you don't like it, then two years later I wonder why you bother to review a model designed, manufactured and released at the same time that shares 90% of the tooling. I wonder why, or rather I don't, I know why.
No reviews of any of Hornby's very well regarded recent releases such as the APT, 87, 91, HST, Jubilee Model, Dublo Scotsman. UA-cam bucks drying up?
Seems to target the badly regarded models to poke holes in the business
Thank you for going back to the A2 and reviewing the A2/3 version Sam. I was initially tempted a bit by the Hattons' last bargain price point on these having been put off by your comments on the earlier version. I went for an earler LNER black A3 in the end which has a metal running plate so hopefully no warping. A bit of a shame the execution on this model wasn't great as it's one of the few big pacifics that noone had modelled in 00.
Who wants a model of a codge of an original design anyway.
Is it a pony truck or Cartazzi axle on the prototype? A Cartazzi axle doesn't pivot - it only allows pure sideways movement
I saw 'Edward Thompson' many times as she used to work Peterborough-Kings Cross trains. I bought an A2/2 a few weeks ago and it seems much better than the sample you had.
Great review again Sam. Having seen H's latest annual report, it is more than crystal clear that they are stuck with piles of unsold stock... We can see items returned en masse constantly due to ongoing unforgivable and infuriating issues due to lack of any trivial quality manufacturing principles, which should be in place for prices they are asking, and we can see piles of non moving stock caused by pricing not matching for what H items actually are (mediocre at best).
The sheen would be fine for us though. Steamers weren't even near glossy, as they looked industrious and since paints back then simply looked more faded. We are at a bit of a loss why train modellers would like glossy models as they look like toy grade anyway; just doesn't work. Subject to personal preference of course. Anyway, this would have been an immediate return we guessed (warping, finger print marks, glue marks, wonky parts) and great that you continue exposing H. Cheerio.
One would think they would've gotten better when Simon returned after seeing the company was really struggling, but I guess not.
I have to agree. I recently bought a new Princess Coronation class which was a non runner straight out of the box. Gone straight back for a refund, won't be buying Hornby any more, just not worth the hassle. And this is not to mention the numerous motor failures I have had too.
When it comes to the rear wheels Sam, its worth mentioning that it's actually closer to the original locomotives if it doesn't move- the full size engines used Cartazzi axleboxes and thus the rear wheelset doesn't pivot at all (technically meaning its not a pony truck), with the axle moving inside the axlebox instead! Its difficult to replicate in small scales hence the use of blind wheels
It’s isn’t really as difficult as you make out I’m afraid, bachmann years ago used to do it on their Pacific locomotives like for example the Peppercorn A2s where the rear truck was fixed but then inside you had a separate piece that the wheels would attached to and then they could move from side to side.
@@davidstrains4910 I know its not too difficult, but doing it this way has been the norm in OO for several decades now, especially on Eastern region locos
@@davidstrains4910 True, but the compromise there is the area bellow the cab is out of scale and too wide. There is no way to accurately model a Cartazzi truck in small scale and have a locos go round tighter curves like R2 or R3.
@@1maico1 OO scale as a whole is a compromise anyway so why would an out of scale and to wide area below the cab be such an issue, the whole locomotve is already compromised because it is actually bigger than it is supposed to be, the fact that bachmann made a system of having a part move side to side inside the cartazzi frame on the chassis of their Pacific locomotives those being mainly the Peppercorn A1s and A2s and I think they did the same on some of their Gresley A4s when they were still making them it just shows that while it may have to be a wide area and out of scale it is possible to have a model of a pacific locomotive and have all the wheels flanged and moving when the model is running and have the model negotiate R3 and R2 curves, it may be out of scale but it really doesn’t detract from the model when it’s running, when I look at my bachmann A2 running I don’t even notice that the cartazzi area is out of scale, one last thing what about the locomotives that don’t have cartazzi arrangements, locomotives like the LMS Pacific’s, the standard Pacifics, the southern region Merchant Navys and Battle of Britain’s/West Country, why should they not have pony trucks that can swivel left and right, hornby used to do that on their early merchant navy models and it looked and worked fine, I just don’t like the system of shoving flangeless wheels in on pacific steam locomotives, I would rather have all flanged wheels and accept the compromises because let’s be honest here like I said before the whole concept of OO is a compromise.
Very interesting video Sam, I find the overall view of the loco so wonderful, it stirs my emotions as I feel the real thing pounding along the east coast main to Edinburgh, and that is speaking as an LMS man which is what I am! Re the poor sales of them, the true LNER man hates Thompson with a passion, for rebuilding the wonderful 2-8-2 locos built for Aberdeen runs into pacifics and they never forgave him, thanks for the entertainment, very enjoyable, best wishes, Pete
You forgot the deliberate vandalism of Gresley's very first Pacific (GN 1470 'Great Northern) into the most unsightly, ghastly mess you could ever imagine. And as if to rub in his hatred of Gresley (remember Thompson was from NER stock, not GN), upon completion, he painted the by then 4470 in Great Eastern Blue (high gloss and full finish, right in the middle of wartime), as if to remove any trace of the locomotive's origins altogether. Thompson was not just a nasty piece of work - he was a joke too.
Sam you don’t know how much I’ve been wanting you to do this Thompson Pacific.
Ever watching Flying Scott’s videos on Thompson’s engines, I’ve come to accept, appreciate, and even like the A2/2-3. They were just wartime engines that had to be made because a lack of traction.
All Thompson needed to do was complete the order for the remaining V2s (magnificent locomotives) rather than meddle. Indeed at his job interview with Andrew McCosh (he of 60003), Thompson said that he wouldn't interfere with locomotive stock...
@@paulcaswell2813 really? That’s very interesting. While the V2’s no doubt would been safer to build (since it’s been apparent that they work well), I don’t blame him using the V2’s base as a test bed for his own design.
Good overall review here Sam, luckily a my a2/2 has been a really good model since I bought it nearly last year, I will admit the green isn’t that good but it doesn’t really bother me, I’m definitely going to be looking for the A2/3 at some point, I think the one I’m looking for is called Sun Castle because that is in the BR green with the late crest but I would definitely be up for looking at getting one in the LNER green, I really like Thompson pacific locomotives they have some real character and knowing the actual history on them is fantastic.
Despite the model’s quality or the faults, do you ever get that exited feeling whenever you open up a new model and see it run?
Don't know about you, but I would have accepted the drawbacks in the finish if the model was sold for GBP130. For GBP 100 more, it's an absolute no-go for me : you have Railroad models far better than this one on finish; And I don't speak about what you can get for GBP 170 from Accurascale...
The mechanism is acceptable, if you don't mind the outdated features (8 pin decoder socket...) and the lack of flywheel. The performances are correct, albeit overspeeding for my taste. At least, you can run this engine...
Overall, too much issues for too much money, a no-go for me. If I'm ready to pay a German price, I'll buy a German engine. Not an Hornby one with an Ali Express quality.
About slashed prices, you have the SECR C class in SR black at TMC, sold for GBP 103 from an original retailer's price of GBP 205, if you're interested for a review, if not already done (can't remember)...
Overall, because I'm not that picky of a collecter. If I saw this at a low price, I might buy it because it seems like an OK model for my layout
When you can get the A1 Doncaster from TMC with diecast running board, much better finish, nice cab detail, much better quality for £126, at time of writing...why would you buy this monster..?. Just out of interest @samstrains how does the finish compare to the Hornby P2 railroad version, as this is quite plasticy...?
Interesting to see this review just after Jenny Kirk’s review of the outstanding Hornby A1 which was actually £20 cheaper than this one from TMC… Strange that the quality of Hornby varies so much from one model to another
11:46: They even messed up the builder's plate, as there's a chunk missing from it, almost as if something took a bite out of it before it was "installed" (painted) onto the side of the cab!
11:50: The red lining on the left side of the trailing truck looks a bit wonky, and doesn't quite match the curve at the bottom of the truck.
17:29: The gauges in the cab are actually painted WAY off-center, making them look more like reverse-colored egg yolks than actual gauges.
And you've already mentioned the horrible finish to this borderline plastic-tat of a locomotive.
Who painted this model, and, more importantly, WHO APPROVED IT?!
The green looks more like a shade of BR Apple Green rather than a proper LNER Doncaster green. I will say though, this model looks significantly nicer than the A2/2, though that's probably more due to the designs of the locomotives.
Well that sort of figures when you think about it as that would've been the colour that br inherited them in. It's also worth bearing in mind that lner green varied massively. There was no guarantee bathes of paint being supplied to sheds all along the entire lner network would be entirely consistent, in fact they very rarely were. Also, Darlington and Doncaster were famously noted for using entirely different shades altogether throughout the companies existence. All of this a very long winded way of saying there's not really any such thing as a right or wrong when it comes to shades of lner green
Congrats to the A2/3 for beating a relic, a toy and a scam
I feel like Hornsby did the Thompson Pacifics quite dirty as even thought they have a more modern tooling, in my opinion they will never be as fantastic compared to the old and new Hornby Gresley pacifics
Yeah you're right - compared to the upgraded Gresley A1/A3, these are rubbish in my opinion!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
In other words the models are as good as the prototypes. No wonder Pep was working on a new A2 even before Thompson was out of office.
Maybe Hornby have taken realism too far this time. My grandfather was a LNER driver and he hated driving any of the Thompson rebuilds so you never know......
Your grandfather was a true LNER (probably GN) man.
Is it just me or is the front safety valve not fitted straight?
Hi sam
I hope you are well
Am early I know sorry
For me this a2/3 is better than a2/2
Just need a2/1
For me 500 Edward Thompson is fantastic model runs well.
Am not sure if apple green or Doncaster green the livery
They slight difference
Thank you for your opinion on the model
Thank you for sharing your models with us
Keep safe ARP
Hi Sam.
When she was running, I only counted 7 coaches and not 8. But that's me being pedantic so maybe I need to get a life. 😂
Paul. 👍❤
Saw this in Oz 4 hours after you were supposed to have posted it and all of the Hatton's reduced price A2/3 locos are gone. Surprise, surprise the preorder stock is at the full price.
To think this costs the same as a Bachmann V2 at RRP...
I think the problem with Hornby's A2/2 and their A2/3 is that they appear to be rushed, hence the poor quality.
A nice enough prototype, just a shame that it is suffering from the Hornby effect!
Considering Thompson’s locomotive were rubbish performers, I thought those are the models they sell for under $120.
As others have pointed out the rear frame/ axle configuration is more accurate. What Hornby do that is REALLY ANNOYING is when they do this to locomotives that actually did have a pivoting rear truck("Delta" truck, essentially an American design concept).All Southern pacifics,all BR standard pacifics and the last 2 LMS pacifics had delta trucks. Do your research Hornby!
Hi Sam, I don't recall you ever telling us the gradient of the "Gordon Hill" as a reference 1%, 2%, 3% if you could, can you refresh that to us when mentioning the name of the hill. All though it would be an even better Idea if you could have all three Hill grades. The lowest 1% to the inside loop and 3% maximum to the outside loop. I don't know if a mainline gradient in real-life one to one scale would be any steeper than a 3% ascent. the steepest I've seen was a 2.5%. Thank you Sam for all you do in these videos.
I bought one of these just over a year ago and it is very good, DCC V5 Loksound bought for it at the same time. It runs very well. My boiler is better than yours. My running plate isn't warped. When I'm running in I do it 15 minutes forward in each direction the 15 mins backward in both directions. Don't be so critical, a loco in real life would slow down going up an incline.
Hi Sam , I really like and look forward to your reviews/videos but I do find the track on the floor rather funny …………….. it reminds me of my childhood (I’m most certainly not criticising), keep up the good work!
I guess the £119 price is a lot better than £229 but given all the imperfections it has I would've thought a more realistic price would be well under £100.
"wheels are touching the track, which is more than can be said about some other locos from Hornby"
Ouf some QA needed over at horny manufacturing eh?
Oh my god some gaping design holes in the boiler? this is not good, at worst seam but holes are unacceptable.
Hmm if it is at least mechanically sound than it could be sold as kit instead of made engine? clearly hobbyists would give it more care and love when assembling AND it'd save coin. Kit sets are also rather beloved historic form of selling things on cheap.
Thanks for your review. Was on my wish list for my collection, but now deleted.
Hopefully with a new person at the helm it will usher in improved quality control instead of the 'get them out on the shelves' mentality which was the root of Mazak Rot. No more warped plastic running boards. Improved after sales Customer Service. In short a vast improvement on who has shortly departed that role.
Hey Sam, I have been wanting to get into the hobby and love all the British locos. Only problem is, I'm over here in America. Do you have any good tips for what I should do?
nah man... colour looks.... almost southern in a way? either way that's not LNER green man shame... shame... could have been a nicer model if the colour alone was done right :/ shame..
My a2 was so poor! It touched the track and the whole thing burnt out I decided to demand hornby fix it (free of charge) which they did and I sold it on as its just garbage
Sammy u love blowin off STEAM!!where are the DEISELS come on slamming Sam😡 but a great review!
On the inside of the cab a lot of the paint seems to of come
Of the detail like pipes and onto the background, to me this is so annoying as it used to be a lot cleaner but seems to be worse and worse the more videos I watch from yourself, is this just not that noticeable in person and I’m being over picky?
Maybe this should be a railroad locomotive
To be a 'railroad' locomotive it needs to be a popular prototype in the first place. Who wants a Thompson Pacific anyway???
Does anyone think that it is because that they have moved the actual manufacturing to china? I hear that things are getting worse over there. If they do not have a quality control person then the quality could be suffering.
A frustrating aspect to this and a trend I have seen in Hornby's QA of late is that where a viable alternative could come along (or already exists) they take their QA very seriously e.g. Lion / A3 / A4 etc. However, where it's unlikely that a competitor model will come to light as their is a niche market e.g. APT / A2's / W1 it is more likely to fall down. The painting on this and the clans that were released within a few months of each other, was really quite poor but the more recent releases suggest this was a blip. Nevertheless, it's gives me pause for thought at ordering a P2, where a Bachmann example would not.
Hi Sam, I don't think there was a out one out, but I did spot the A4, A3, A2 and 2 A1, (see what I did there) and one of them was tornado. Hopefully I got them all :)
Cheers Jasper & Willow
I would love this locomotive for the mechanism but I would not pay that ridiculous msrp for the what looks more like a railroad line loco.
I like a mat finish over a satin finish, providing it still looks metallic and not plastic. Wonder if most modellers prefer satin? I wouldn't get this model though, due to the warped running plate.
The rear truck on the Marklin Flying Scotsman in HO manages to have a well finessed scale look and still function, so that now Hornby aspires to Marklin pricing they need to aspire to Marklin standards of engineering.
Oh the Marklin/Trix version came out already?
@@gilbertporter4992 I don't know if it is being delivered and then I think it is only for their collectors club, but I saw one on display in a show in Sweden by Marklin, and it is beautiful as the Marklin limited edition models are. It is expensive, but fully loaded with lights, firebix, smoke, sound etc and all diecast and priced similarly than equally hard to get Hornby Dublo models with digital and sound. A feature I particularly liked was that all the boiler bands are separately fitted parts as well as functioning rear truck.
We can't wait to receive ours! Expected in Q4 this year and has been obtained via pre-order reservation, although we have been lucky being one of the last ones accepted (pfew). The model is just astoundingly detailed in full die cast (including tender) and fully loaded. Expensive as M always is but they deliver manufacturing perfection. At every stage of production the item is checked, checked, checked and checked again... We've never ever received one with the slightest fault or issue. The British OO market is very different though..., extremely price driven and squeezing out every penny of quick profits they can..., causing constant pressure without any regards for healthy basic quality principles, and hardly any customers willing to pay for flawless quality... A different world... Having seen a vid on H production (but also others such as Rapido) left us shocked tbh, mais soit.
@@lindaoffenbach I would note that Hornby's relaunch of Dublo where they are putting a diecast body over their "cooking" mechanism and attaching a standard tender (the Wrenn models used Triang tenders as they did not buy the Dublo tooling for the tinplate tenders) is pushing price levels when you add sound and digital to Marklin levels. £362 with no sound / lights compared Dublo with £520 fully loaded Marklin Flying Scotsman. I also note tge Dublo models sell out before delivery so there is a demand in the UK for higher end models.
I own a few locomotives that are 50+ years old that have working rear trucks, granted that's pretty much a standard feature here in the US.
If it runs ok, then looks for me is 2nd place....Bachmann seem to look far better but lack the performance is my overall impression?
Love a good roast, pass the gravy!
Ive just rewatched this after my parents got me this exact loco for Christmas
No, No and, No. I will buy the A1 Doncaster Martin (Thailand)
LNER engines are not my favourite with older GE & GC being ones I liked. I didn't like either Gresley or Thomson locos. OK the A3 is quite a fine looking loco but not as good as Peppercorn's A1. I never understood why the LNER needed so many Pacifics a fault that Bullied also perpetuated on the Southern. An interesting and yes it is seriously over priced for what it is.
A 392-mile main line from The Cross to Edinburgh needed a LOT of heavy express engines, not to mention the Leeds run from Donny. The A2s were superb on the Aberdeen road too. Comparison with the tiny Southern hardly holds water.
Sam the number 5 on the 500, right hand side cab doesn't look right.
Have you ever thought of 3D printing rolling stock with American style knuckle couplers? You should do that for a 3D printing video
Knuckle couplers on British prototypes??? Only A4s and LNER rolling stock ever had such things in Britain!
Sky high prices and poor quality is not a great business model.
It's just not right having flangeless wheels, they used to have them after all !
I paid 95 for mine and its an amazing runner
I had the Evening Star, bought 73..last BR build...ran very well..more so when Peco arrived..
57 now.. so wish I still had it..and all my other Hornby trains..you absolute twat I say to the younger me for flicking it all...muppet
A boiler seam is a dealbreaker for me, seconded by facsimile pony trucks
Hornby does seem to have lost its way in the past five years.
Oh dear, certainly not one of Hornby's best.
Yike, that gap in the boiler is not good…
The way they have the coupling missing in the front of the locomotive reminds me of the Mantua Tyco locomotives that they built from the 1960s straight-through 1980s. they did not have couplers on the front pilot for the Pacific and mikados.. even the draw bar is similar to this one ,screws on both ends. It looks like a nice model but I do agree with quality issues can't be giving it a good score
Two Startling Pieces of Irony in this review is that the moveable rear pony that everyone want ONLY EXISTED IN PREVIOUS UTTERLY INACCURATE HORNBY OR BACHMAN MODELS. All LNER Pacifics used the Cartazzi truck for stability and comfort. Hornby Dublo prewar A4 models made the hole of the rear assembly behind the last driving Wheel and below the footplate a big moving lump to get around 1st radius Tinplate track. The did the same to the duchess 462 as well, so our assumptions are that this accurate representation is inaccurate!! The second is with color…. That is even more subjective…. What we find pleasing is usually inaccurate for all manner of reasons. Would love to know if the subcontractor who did these for Hornby did anything before…….
This fetish for Metal running plates is asking for trouble as anyone who has experience with high volume Die-casting will know. Märklin/Trix have pulled it off there is a reason their models are so expensive.
Thanks very sharing - very interesting on the colour!
That just isn’t true about die-casting though; almost all of Bachmann’s locos have diecsst running plates with no problems at all. Many of Hornby’s do too, including an A1 that’s roughly the same price as this.
@@SamsTrains Hornby's GRESLEY A1 (1470 in original GNR condition) remains one of the finest 00 models ever sold. The attention to detail - even to the short-travel valve gear - compared with the A3's long-travel, was amazing. Not to mention the higher boiler fittings and cab, built for the GN loading gauge. And the livery was superbly applied. Surprise surprise - I've discovered it was made by the SK Hornby factory - they really did produce works of art.
@@SamsTrainsPeople hold Bachmann up as being superb - do you remember their first batch of Pep A1s having a recall on them, as they wouldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding???
I just felt your disappointment. Running qualities seem good. If this is now being sold for about £119 then it's found it's level. Looking on the bright side nothing seems to have fallen off.
In all honesty, maybe locomotives don’t need flywheels. Although, they shouldn’t be priced so high, that is just gonna make people not wanna buy the product. Sadly that is something a lot of manufacturers like Mattel especially do not understand.
All the hype that the rictus grinning Simon Kohler gives out , you would think that every item Hornby kicks out was totally faultless - he needs a reality check.
The prices they are charging would support British manufacture of Hornby locos instead of Chinese sourced , marginal quality products ( at an ex works price of $30 per loco ) - not a bad mark up to £220 +
The moment Hornby outsourced their models to China, the quality and detailing went up several 1000 percent. Pre-China they were toys.
@@paulcaswell2813 of course the quality went up - they invested in new tooling in China - why not here ?
Rising costs in the Far East will ultimately force decisions to be made regarding outsourcing of production - this is already happening in the electronics sector with major players such as Foxconn moving out of China.
Hornby will have the same dilemma - they should start bringing the tooling back and kickstart some manufacture here.
@@fraserhardmetal7143I also have an interest in model vintage cars. CMC (Classic Model Cars), a Germany-based firm, make some of the finest car models available, for which they are charging c.£700-£800. They're made in China. If they were made in Europe popular opinion is that they would be £2,000 or more a go...
I was considering one of these simply because they are odd and a bit different looking but to me it looks like theyve stuck a railroad body on a railways chasis. The livery is pretty naff and a noticeable seam on the boiler is a big no these days. Its like that'll do when they clearly know how to do it right. You can't tell me it costs that much more to produce !!
I've been meaning to get one of these for a while, but was put off by your a2/2 review (plus I have a kitbuilt a2/2 so am not getting a hornby one). But now its severely reduced, I'll be considering one more.
I'm surprised that you also reviewing this hornby model of this locomotive.
After seeing the pics of the Accurascale Manor's I can't help but be upset with Hornby. How can you ask more than Accurascale and not deliver on the detail???
Accurascale Manor: £169.99
Features:
Fully-detailed cab interior with loads of separate parts
Die-cast metal chassis, running plate and body
Etched metal pre-painted name and numberplates
Etched metal headboards
And a LED Firebox.
21 pin Decoder Socket
Hornby's NEW LNER A2/3: From a retailer £229.04 (£60 more than Accurascale's Manor)
Features:
Fully-detailed cab interior, not many separately fitted parts
No - Die-cast running plate and body
No - Etched metal pre-painted name and numberplates
No - Etched metal headboards
No - LED Firebox.
8 Pin - Outdated Decoder Socket
Hornby want £60 more for less detail than; a small incomparison to Hornby, Accurascale can deliver!
At this point if Accurascale do a version of something you may as well not bother looking at the competition have to offer as they are only going to try and charge you more for less.
Ouch! a grade E. I understand your point in your evaluation. For the money you should expect almost perfection.
Same problem with American manufacturers. I like Athern Genesis series with Soundtraxx decoder from the get go which have excellent details. Just got my first steam loco a UP 844 - Alco FEF-3 (four-eight-four), a real beauty.
I model based on the Los Angeles area (not prototypical.) with mostly UP and BNSF, with Amtrak, California trains, and local regional Metrolink. I always like the British trains even that I still can't figure out your locomotive class system. I know that the class C66 is an EMD build for some private railroads.
This Hornby A2/3 is a decent model but the quality on its body and the price from Hornby both suck. Plus, the locomotive and tender connection is really out of date because Hornby have redesign their older models like the A1/A3 and the A4 pacifics to have the more modern connection which Dapol use. I really do not like the Thompson A2/1, A2/2 and A2/3 in real life along with model form Sam.
If I remember these locos were the ones where Hornby changed Chinese manufacturers so tons of quality issues. Added to that this was the time they bought in the tier system and put Hattons on the bottom of it, as they cancelled my orders of this loco. To think I was worried I wouldn't get one, how wrong was I. I have just picked up two A1s in TMCs sale for half price, so yes Hornby seem to be having issues selling their models. Compared to other manufacturers I think Hornby are 10% overpriced assuming decent quality control which they obviously don't have. Good review though, thanks. I am beginning to understand why the disciples on the Hornby website dislike your reviews, that don't seem to be able to see reality.
Is Hornby dead in the water?
I bought this model at the 'reduced' price from Hattons, I had a problem with my original model after running in it just stopped working completely I returned it to Hattons who replaced my model, while I do accept all your criticism especially the shade of the green, as a new comer to the hobby this is a really good runner, it will pull a good rake of both carriages at express speeds, which my grandson loves, but also a mixed rake of wagons at a more reasonable speed very smoothly with very few derailing problems, to have a large powerful loco like this at the price Hattons charged is really good for a beginner to the hobby but I can understand why an established model collector would be disappointed, both my grandson and I love your videos and they have been a great help to us getting up and running in the hobby thank you Sam
I purchased a Chamossaire from Hattons a few weeks ago for £114 including P/P. The quality control was good & the performance was fine. It crawls well and copes with the radius 1 & 2 curves on my second hand track . If you are lucky with the quality control & can get one for this sort of price it is good value considering Hornby want £49.99 for a RailRoad 0-4-0
Sorry but the paint still looks really like washed out by long time exposure to the sun. Not as bad as the other one, but still looks really bad especially when running with others of the same livery. Gives a toy-like look while running.
Don't mind the design of the real ones, the cylinder placement gives them a pretty massive and functional look.
so... a good buy then 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I wouldn't buy any model of a Thompson engine. He ruined a good engine. As for Bachmann their engines can't take tight radius curves and frequently derail or fall off the track.
Nice video Sam very good camera work as usual as well keep it up bye for now Philip
That's what happens when you manufacture in China.
Lol. Quality production is perfectly possible in China since so many years. It's a matter of setting it up and making sure the owner(s) and managers have been American or European educated. This is what I have seen working well over there in 2009 already. Another direction is setting up a holding in Shanghai, buying a factory in China and having it run by German managers, including constant capital expenditures reserved for high investment into automation. The latter is how PIKO have done it and their quality is flawless upon arrival here.
What simply doesn't work is the typical Anglo Saxon cottage way of conduction business which is concentrated around quick profits, low investment management and constant focus on cutting corners to cheap out. This is how H operates... I've seen it.
I bought one at the reduced price. Its a great runner, pulls a decent load and looks great on a rake of Gresley coaches. Happy with the purchase
Marvellous! ❤ Now I’ve got Two of them his;
#1. BR Brunswick Green, No.60523 ‘Sun Castle’.
#2. LNER Apple Green, No.500 ‘Edward Thompson’.
Thanks for sharing Harry! :D
I have a real emotional regard for all the British steam being painted that lovely green, but this colour looks much the same as apple green. I think the standard loco colour is called Brunswick Green. Maroon coaches too remind me of childhood. Quite a dignified colour scheme.
Another interesting review! Yes, it looks like a rather over-priced model at the RRP. I wonder if that flat plasticky look could be given some lustre by spraying the body with satin sealer??