How to Pin a Gas Block: a comprehensive guide for the poor and cheap among us.
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2024
- A slightly long look at the cheapest way to taper pin your gas block.
As always, I'm not affiliated with, or shilling for any companies. I'm giving you my experiences on the best (cheap) way to pin a gas block on a barrel.
I am not a machinist, smith, or professional. I'm just a guy with a drill and too much time on his hands.
This content is provided for informational purposes only. I'm not responsible if you do something stupid or dangerous.
Enjoy!
You need to use a centerdrill first, then drill . Centerdrill are solid and designed for this and they are relatively cheap..im a machinist. And I have no problem with wd-40 as cutting fluid . I use it . Buy it buy the gallon.
Thanks for the tip! I just learned something today that took me down a youtube rabbit hole.
600 rpm is fine for steel
A "machinist" who advocates wd40? Ya right.
I allso have used a lot of wd-40 buy in bulk then use a sureshot refillable spray can it lives next to my drill press
@caseyjohnston9632 Nothing wrong with WD-40 as a cutting fluid. Marvel, Deep Creep, Break-Free... there's probably 100 other products that work well for the same purpose.
I do agree with using a center-drill or reamer first before using a final sized bit. A bit of experience and common sense helps.
Thanks for this video. Because of you, I bought the correct items, and was able to get it done.
I was very gentle with the drilling and drilled for about an hour and fifteen minutes.
The reamer was just a few seconds, though, in hand drill.
👍
Honestly, if you hadn't posted your experience, I don't think I would have tackled this, so thank you again.
Edit: I used an 8" drill press while Inexpensive Arms used a 10", and either my jobber bit was longer than his, or a 10" chuck will swallow more of the drill bit than an 8" chuck. I had to realign the gas block-to- drill vice because the drill bit was so long that it deflected a smidgen as I made the initial hole. I didn't want to have a wollwed out hole, so I stopped and recentered everything. So, if you use an 8" get the center drill bits and the jobber bit. The center bits seem sturdy enough to not walk. Or, you can just readjust as I did. I hope that made sense.
I'm glad somebody found this useful. Couple more times and I bet it will be a ten minute job for you.
I'm going to have to get some center drill bits. Thanks for the heads up
Holy shit, I didn't know drill presses were that cheap. Where has that been all my life? Thanks for the info.
Nice video.
A few observationsCutting fluid: WD40 is not really the best for steel (works pretty good on aluminum though). Home depot has oatey cutting fluid for threading plumbing pipe. It's thick stuff and will work much better than WD40 for steel.
Reaming: I didn't see the process but I just want to say that when you ream you want to have one nice consistent stroke through the hole and back out. Don't peck like you would with a regular drill
Starting the drill: You might consider using a center drill or a spot drill in the future before you use the twist drill. this makes a nice starting spot and keeps your regular drill from walking
Speed: Generally speaking you can run carbide at a higher speed than a HSS drill. Next time you might want to use the next speed up and see how that works.
Thanks. I picked up a container of cutting fluid last month and it does work much better. Agree about the reaming process. Next time I do this I'll try the next speed up.
5:50 Good advice. The force is strong with you.
Thanks for the video, I've been looking at how best to do this and what tools to use. Now I know what to use. Granted there are better ways but for the price point its a good introduction.
Oh yeah, There's definitely better ways to do this. For what the average guy has at home though, it works pretty well.
How exactly did you figure out where exactly to drill so you don't make a huge mistake and drill too much barrel material? Awesome video though! I've been wanting to pin and dimple all of my barrels but I'm scared to death I'd ruin a barrel and I'd never forgive myself lol I want to, but I can't afford to be replacing barrels unfortunately and I don't have a good local gunsmith that does them so if I want to get it done I'm going to have to do it myself. Any help explaining how to be certain that im drilling the proper place through the gas block/outer barrel would be greatly appreciated
You've got more leeway than you might think. I've taper pinned 0.625" diameter pencil barrels before.
I eyeball it. I've used jigs, but they're really not needed. If you have a standard 5.56 barrel with a .750 diameter gas block, then it's best to eyeball it lengthwise along the entire length of the barrel and bring the bit down until it touches the gas block while you nudge it around until it's where it needs to be.
Shoot for only drilling 1/2 the diameter of the thickness of the drill bit into the barrel. In other words, you want to drill a straight line through the barrel that will end up with half of the taper pin sitting in the groove, and half sticking out from the barrel. From a top down view, something like this:
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
Awesome, thanks for getting this info out there.
Genuinely loved the vid man. I do it pretty similar. Good job!
Thanks!
While pinning is the ultimate in security, double dimpling and high temp threadlocker is very secure. Secure enough for anybody not running high-volume full auto. A dimple jig is less than $30.
im trying not to get sick from the freaking camera floating all over the place nonstop!
For you, nothing but the best.
Move the device away from your face!
A great tool for staring holes is a center drill they are cheap too. Choking up on a drill bit will cause more wobble and is fare more prone to breaking the drill. Save the oil for HSS bits, carbide dosnt need oil or coolant, we use compressed air to blow away chips for a cleaner cut. As a general rule carbide can be ran fast consult a machinist handbook exact numbers. We machinist break drills and taps all the time it's frustrating, but, most of us are paid by the hour so we work the problem. Learn to sharpen your bits or replace them when they start to wear because it's the dull tools that break the most. You did a fine job, slow and steady always works. There is no "proper" way to drill a hole. I am a slow and steady person too.
Can a roll pin be used or is a taper pin a must?
You can use wd40 no problem, just apply alot more often.
Align gas block with the KAK jig.
😂😂😂@2:43
Use a center drill first #3
A FYI. 4 Flute carbide end mill works very well to start the hole. chuck up short. thats how I do this on my milling machine. and carbide does prefer high speed vs. low speed.
Thank you! That's a great idea. I've since increased the spindle speed by about 50%. I'll try bumping up another notch next time.
I thought they made solid metal jigs for gas blocks, allowing one to drill by hand? No?
Either way, thanks for the video. Very interesting and articulated well.
BRD makes a jig. I actually own it. This is a better method once you've done it a time or two.
How did you decide where center of pinning hole should be, to prevent cutting too deeply into barrel?
I used to have a jig. After I did it a few times, I just eyeball it now.
I'll repost a comment where I addressed this exact question.. hang on.
I eyeball it. I've used jigs, but they're really not needed. If you have a standard 5.56 barrel with a .750 diameter gas block, then it's best to eyeball it lengthwise along the entire length of the barrel and bring the bit down until it touches the gas block while you nudge it around until it's where it needs to be.
Shoot for only drilling 1/2 the diameter of the thickness of the drill bit into the barrel. In other words, you want to drill a straight line through the barrel that will end up with half of the taper pin sitting in the groove, and half sticking out from the barrel. From a top down view, something like this:
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
i have one of those cheapo drill presses my dad bought back in the late 70's. Let those machinist laugh...looks to me like you got the last laugh. Good job.
How to you feel about dimple and rock set? I have a pencil barrel and the largest od on my barrel is only .625. I didnt trust my self to not go thru the bore and also didnt wanna deal with 5 weeks of "were getting to your gun next"
It's definitely about comfort level. I've done a pencil barrel before with a .625 gas block using the same method, but I just went really slowly and measured about 5 times before I did it. Turned out perfectly.
Realistically though, if you're covering the gas block with your handguard, and you're not falling down mountains or jumping out of helicopters, dimple+high temp threadlocker will suffice.
@@inexpensivearms6952 thanks for the response handguard runs about about 1/4" from the fh so i think ill ill just leave it be 🤙
LOL I am a dumbass, so i had a gunsmith do it XD
If you're self-aware, you ain't that much of a dumb ass. It took me years to accept it myself.
The other thing is if you're only doing one or two barrels, it's probably cheaper to have a professional do it for you.
What size was the initial drill bit?
#31 which is .1200"
Have you tried the Delta Team Tactical ELD Performance barrels? I seen a couple people get 1 to 2 1/2 inch groups, but I just received mine and is everyone I wanted 1:7 4150CMV (SR) I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT the means, and neither did they. Anyway now after I got it I'm just worried it won't be accurate as if I spent 40$ more or so to get a well known brand and better accuracy. Am I just worrying too much ? Have you tried their barrels? Do you know what the SR means after the 5.57 NATO 1:7 4150 CMV (SR) ?????
I haven't tested them.
The markings you're referring to mean:
Chambered in 5.56 NATO
1:7 twist rate. ( Every seven inches of barrel length the bullet will turn one time)
CMV is Chrome Moly Vanadium, 4150 is the grade of steel the barrel is made out of. (4150 CMV is military spec)
I don't know what the (SR) marking means.
Test it out. If it's a shooter, keep it. If it's not, sell it. You'll probably be able to get 80% of your money back. I call that part of the learning tax.
Best of luck!
I like the tool list. If someone is not confident in their toolcraft this will help smooth out the process.
Great video! Thank you👍🏼
Why didn't you show how you measured it and where to drill it? lol.. You skipped the only useful information.
Check the replies to comments. I described it there. In hindsight, I could have improved this quite a bit though.
What about removing a pinned gas block, not a front sight double pinned but a single pinned gas block on a heavy barrel?
Measure both sides, and tap from the skinny side out towards the fat side.
Wait a minute! You didn't show how to put in/keep in the taper pins... My taper pins just fell out, how can I put them back in and make sure they stay in?
Your taper pins are tapped into place with a mallet and a punch.
When I filmed this my phone battery died for the last part, which is why the last part is short.
When you ream the hole with the taper 2/0 reamer, make sure you don't over ream.
You want to ream deep enough that the pin will go most of the way through, but is too tight to go the last 1/8" or so without tapping it into place.
If you do that, the pin will never come out unless you want it to.
If you over ream the hole and it's too big, and the pin fits too loosely, you'll have to go up one size in taper pin and repeat the fitting process.
Its called an "interference fit". You tap it in fairly tight. Some people actually add locktite on the pin to make sure it doesn't vibrate loose; but if you do it correctly, it should be a little tought to even tap out with a hammer.
Is there any way to fix a mis aligned gas block?
depends on how badly it's misaligned if it's pinned.
For starters, if it's just clocked a little, but works, then don't worry about it. There's lots of gas blocks that aren't perfectly aligned but work fine.
If it's rotated enough that you're having cycling issues, You could TRY to rotate it into proper alignment, tighten down the set screws really hard, and attempt to ream the hole a bit bigger and use the next size up taper pin, but that's iffy depending on how much the block is off by.
Last alternative, you could just remove the old misaligned gas block, replace it, and drill a dimple under one of the set screws, but don't re-drill the taper pin hole. That will still hold the gas block very securely, and will cover the exposed metal from the taper pin you removed.
If gas blocks normally only had one taper pin, people would say, "Tapper pins can back-out; what people should really use is set screws, and you could dimple the barrel, oh, and use loctite!"
Loctight is useless on the barrel or gas block . Thats why the set screws never come with it and you dont locktight muzzle devices . Locktight doesnt hold when its heated up a lot and the barrel gets to hot for locktight to be worth a shit thats why rockset is used on muzzle devices. I use it on lots of other stuff bit im also an automotive tech and thats how we under locktight is with a torch then it spins free. The barrel gets hot enoigh to make the lovktight liquid and useless
WD-40 isn't cutting oil
Sure isn't.
but it *IS* lube...
What size drill press do you recommend? They seem to come in all sizes. Thank you.
Literally any size will work. The one I have is a 10", but even a cheap 8" Harbor Freight drill press will work if you make sure the base is solid and you take your time
As a man with a Masters in Baiting I can say I kneed a fucking mill......... Amen
Do I need to take the upper off before drilling? Or can I leave it on? Thanks!
You mean should you take the barrel off of the upper receiver? No, but I sure would.
Part of the issue is that vibration and movement matter a LOT. You need to have a uniform clamping surface. Any amount of shift will affect your results. Leaving a barreled upper receiver will make things a little unwieldy, even if the upper receiver is just hanging off the end.
Hope this helps, Good luck!
Your a good man
Aww shucks
what drill press do you use?
I have this one, which I originally paid 60 dollars shipped for:
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00826P1SK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
The price has gone up since then. If all you need to do is pin a gas block, you can easily do that with a 60 dollar Harbor Freight drill press.
Hoping you might still be around on this video and have a bit of insight you can offer. I've run up against a wall of info I'm completely unable to find.
THE BACKGROUND ----- I'm new to the AR market, I'm stuck in Commiefornia, so have been holding out on purchasing an AR as our arbitrary laws change nearly every year which requires continuous modifications to stay state compliant. I finally gave in and picked one up recently. My AR of choice was a SA Saint (off the used market) which comes with a standard A2-style FSP. In addition to this being added to my home defense, I also have her set up for two-gun matches (a few of my events have action challenge matches which have staggered distance targets out as far as 400m) with a low power variable magnified optic. whilst going through the zeroing process, I've come to find that my point of impact doesn't line up with the FSP, it sits slightly low and left, meaning I don't have a clear view of my target.
THE ISSUE ----- My plan was to replace the FSP with a Geissele SGB, however I've been completely unable to find substantiated info on driling into a Chrome Moly Vanadium and Melonite treated barrel. I'm no gunsmith, I don't have the tools on-hand to be able to do this job myself. None of my local gunsmiths are willing to work on AR's (there's only two locally who don't have a bad reputation), so this has left me with two options: ship her off, or invest in hardware to get the job done. I'm on a budget (Surprise! that's why I'm here), so what I'm looking at are ~$100-150 bench top drill presses (Likely Wen), with a carbide drill.
Do you have any experience with drilling through Melonite finishes, and of so, would 1/3HP motor on one of these be enough? Any help would be appreciated!
You'd be fine.
The video I posted is drilling through a 4150 CMV nitride treated barrel.
Slow and steady wins the race.
I don't try to "drill through" the surface, I try to slowly scrape the surface away when I apply pressure.
Make sure you get a carbide drill bit. It HAS TO BE CARBIDE.
You can get away with a HSS drill bit on non-melonite surfaces, (regular parkerized 41xx steel) but HSS bits will barely scratch the surface of a melonite surface.
I think my current drill press is only 1/3 HP, and it's chinese made, so it's not the highest quality. Your biggest concern will not be power. It will piddly things like alignment and wobble. Just go VERY slowly, lubricate often with cutting oil, and you'll be fine.
The fact that you don't have to drill through the gas block will make this entire process a piece of cake with that Geissele SGB.
NOW. I assume you want to install a free floating handguard. Keep in mind that if you do that, you're still going to have the original taper pin holes in your barrel from the original Gas Block.
You would be FAR further ahead simply cutting off the FSP with a grinding wheel, and profiling the existing gas block down so it will fit under a free floating handguard.
When you're done, just paint the gas block with some matte black high-temp engine paint and put it back on.
Check out this guy's video. ua-cam.com/video/b42Bxfqr_Qw/v-deo.html
@@inexpensivearms6952 Perfect! that's good enough for me. I was just concerned that she might bind up given the relatively weak motor. Much appreciated!
I need an inexpensive wife do you have info. on that??
I think I got lucky. Mine was a one off.
outstanding!
Should put barrel nut on before pinning?
Not when you're just drilling and fitting it. Before final assembly, you'll need to though.
Once you get a fit you like you simply tap the pin out, remove the gas block, slide the barrel nut on, replace the gas block, and muzzle device, and torque the barrel nut to spec.
It’s supposed to be a coil pin. that’s what Ballistic Advantage uses and it makes sense.
They do coil pins because they don't want to have to add an extra step to taper.
Taper Pins are more durable. It really doesn't matter though. They're both tough enough to take a licking and keep on ticking.
Inexpensive Arms taper pins don’t give you a canted load? Don’t you want uniform compression across the whole surface? Since it’s a drilled out barrel and the gas block needs to be level?
@@johnviera3884 its not a canted load as long as the pins are tight and match the reamer. You're just removing steel and replacing it with steel. It may as well be one piece.
Good job
Where did you get the pins and what size are they
www.mcmaster.com/90681A131/
You can also buy them from numerous places like brdengineering.com/products/stainless-steel-taper-pins-2-slash-0-0750
They're 2/0 taper pins that are 0.75" long.
>poor
>drill press
Pick one.
I mean...l paid 64 bucks for my drill press. I dunno what to tell you. If you can't swing that, then you probably can't swing an AR either.
I only have $34.16 in my bank account. 😭😭😭
@@muffemod plan "b".
Dave Ramsey. Rice and beans, four jobs, no fun ever!
@@inexpensivearms6952 Thanks, I'll be back on my feet soon enough and will be made righteous again :)
@@muffemod Good luck man. The older I get, the more I see how easy it is to have a setback or two that knocks you on your ass.
What diameter is the barrel ?
It's got a .750" gas block journal.
How exactly do you know where to cut?
I eyeball it. I've used jigs, but they're really not needed. If you have a standard 5.56 barrel with a .750 diameter gas block, then it's best to eyeball it lengthwise along the entire length of the barrel and bring the bit down until it touches the gas block while you nudge it around until it's where it needs to be.
Shoot for only drilling 1/2 the diameter of the thickness of the drill bit into the barrel. In other words, you want to drill a straight line through the barrel that will end up with half of the taper pin sitting in the groove, and half sticking out from the barrel. From a top down view, something like this:
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
Inexpensive Arms Dude thank you so much!
I can’t wait to stop paying to have my barrels pinned.
I’ve seen and had dimples barrels walk and honestly once you get this setup it’s 2min of work!
I was worried about accuracy issues but after research I heard it’s extremely minor and on precision builds you should be using a clamp on anyway.
Thanks for the info!
@@LarpingSupply Absolutely! I'm glad somebody could get some use out of it!
Should have used an end mill first to flat spot where you are going to drill. Than a center drill followed by the drill bit. And finally a reamer.
I'm just a poor guy with a drill and too much time on his hands...I'll keep it in mind for next time, but tooling gets pretty pricey pretty quick for the little I want to do.
This was strange to watch. My recommendation is to use a dimpling jig and dimple your barrel first before you screw with your pinning. Also, you need to rotate the gas block so the bit goes in perpendicular for a very small distance, just enough to create a divot where the bit won't have an incentive to move sideways. Turn it off and remove the bit from the gas block surface. Move it slightly toward the correct position widening that divot each time. Eventually you will have the correct drilling angle without having to worry about your bit trying to move sideways on you. The only hard part is determining where to start your divot. Third, anything from tapping fluid to WD40 works fine. It is just a lubricant that absorbs heat and doesn't allow the bit to over-travel. Also, you can use a size 0 or size 2/0 with associated taper pins. Both work fine and you don't really need some $15.00 jobber bit. A $2.00 1/8" Bosch brand cobalt bit for drilling steel will do just fine and gets you a hole just outside of the minor radius of your reamer. Reapply lubricant generously, and take it slow. I would also recommend you grab a piece of junk wood that is 0.75 inches thick and perform the same process on it as practice before going at it, this way you know how deep to ream your taper bit and you can see that buy noting how far the taper pin passes into the hole reamed in the wood. Whatever forced (by hammer and tap) travel would be required for the pin to secure in the wood, divide it by 3 because your taper pin is going into steel. Also, when you put your set screw in for the last time, be sure you use rocksett, not loctite. Most loctites don't go above 500F, but you are golden with rocksett. My other recommendation is to make sure you secure your barrel nut before attaching your gas block permanently...doing otherwise is a rookie mistake.
I like the idea about turning the gas block a bit to get started. That would probably contribute to not having to buy a carbide bit.
My experience with HSS and coated drill bits was that they just didn't quite cut it on nitrided surfaces, but carbide bits just go through like butter. I eventually just bought a few carbide bits to save time. They've held up really well. YMMV.
The barrel I was pinning already had a dimple for the gas block, but I've pinned barrels that don't have them.
Good comments man. Thanks!
Stop giving bad advice. Wd40 is absolutely unacceptable, and hss or anything less than cobalt is absolutely not suitable for a nitride barrel (a supremely popular treatment today. If you don't have all the facts, please don't comment. I'm really not trying to be rude, but bad advice like this can certainly ruin equipment, or a barrel.
@@jamesstephenson2346 Nothing wrong with WD40. Clean it with CLP when you are done. Quit whining. Your equipment doesn't need to be coddled. Found the guy who has never had to use a garden hose on his rifle!
@@jamesstephenson2346 Wait....wait a second....you realize that pinning doesn't go into the bore, right? Now I am wondering if your comment was somehow satire...
So, you depend just on the friction/tightness from tapping the pin in that last bit, to keep the pin from coming out? Wouldn't it be better to put a spot of weld between the pin and the block?
Nope. Trust me, that thing will never come out by itself.
The pin isn't straight. It's tapered, so it's larger on one side than the other.
When you tap in the pin, you're creating a really tight friction fit that runs along the entire length of the pin, not just that last bit.
The military uses taper pins just like that to keep the exposed front sight post/gas blocks in place on their M16s.
Plus, if you want to take it out in the future to change handguards,or barrels, you can tap it out relatively easily.
@@inexpensivearms6952 Yeah, I know -- what happens is what happens. Experience has shown they don't come out. I suppose I just worry that I'll do something wrong, and so MINE might come out, lol. But really, screws themselves work on a similar principle of tightening and friction, and screws sometimes come loose, too.
@@GetMeThere1 It's your call. A lot of guys are happy just putting a dab of high-temp loctite or rockset on their screws and cranking them down.
I like to tell my self that if there were ever a SHTF situation, my budget rifles would be able to take a beating and keep ticking, that's why I do it personally.
@@inexpensivearms6952 I feel exactly the same way!
unless your doing this for work, gunsmith is your way cheaper option.
meh. not if you have a dozen rifles to do this on.
Bs