Victron Smart Inverter - The Move. First step off the grid.
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
- I know this is a long video, so please grab your favourite beer (or grown-up apple juice), lean back and enjoy the video. Today, I take you with me in the Off-Grid Garage and we will move the Victron Phoenix Smart inverter out of the cabinet and install it in its new location. That seems pretty straight forward but is actually a lot of work. It took me a lot longer than I was expecting (hence the video got so long 😂). I explain the steps in all details, share my thoughts and maybe we can learn a bit here and there along the way. So, please relax a bit from all the hardcore tests and knowledge sharing we usually do here on the channel.
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DISCLAIMER
By watching the video, you agree:
All electrical work must be carried out as per your local laws, rules and regulations. Installations and setups shown in my videos are for test and demonstration purposes only and may not satisfy regulatory requirements. Installation are temporary, for the above purpose and for making these videos. Most electrical work is not for DIY purpose and must be conducted by a trained and qualified person. Please always check your local regulations!
Any liability for conducting your own work, in particular, any consequential damages arising therefrom, shall be excluded.
I have a new habit: Watch Andy do stuff I wish I was doing, drink coffee and process server updates..... Thanks Andy!
Thanks Mark!
I’ve been looking forward to the shelf build for a long time.👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Coming up next...
14:23 Lol, now I know what I sound like when I try to speak German. Of course I'm American and can barely speak English haha... Thanks for the uploads, very entertaining.
Thank you. Not many people speak English on this planet. Especially not here on this island in the Pacific.
You amaze me Buddy. So much energy in you and the panels. If a cooling system was added to the panels either cool pipes under or cool air under the panels. What do ya think???🤔…. I am thinking about this for my system. Ya don’t want to run out of projects 😲. Keep up the Good work .😁
In case of water cooling system for panels, a pool's water could be used for cooling. Like in big nuclear of "good old fossil fuel combustion" power plants.
@@sergeyblinov4957 Yes some sort of heat transfer without shorting . That is where covering the bottom of the frame with 1/4 “ plastic and pumping cold air in venting at the top of the frame. Yes I get bored 🤔!
Now i am happy to see you arrived to the point and did the thing i advised before when cabinet first mentioned.
I love the way you call it a sir-quit. It is actually pronounced sir-kit in English. Yes us Brits just love to confuse non English speakers by throwing the odd U in and changing S's for C's.
This is all a challenge in itself. Should have made these videos in German. Would be so much easier for me 😎
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Noooooooo!
“Owl Loo Men Eum” haha We enjoy hearing you talk as much as watching you play with solar.
Hi Andy, I like your set up just a couple of points … your mains supply needs to be ip3x, not an exposed busbar. I can’t see any earthing on your aluminum sheet, I can’t see an earth from an earth pole going to the earth busbar, there should be a link between earth and neutral as an MENs system.
Thanks for your feedback. The switchboard is IP40. The earthing is done with 4mm earth wire from the AL sheet as well as a separate earth wire from the inverter to the earthing box. This connects with 10mm cable to the outside earth rod. The MEN link is inside the inverter already as I mentioned in the video. Hence I removed the link in the switchboard.
Ich bin vor einiger Zeit auf deinen Kanal gestoßen und gucke jetzt alle alten Videos mal durch.
Ich weiß nicht ob es noch aktuell ist aber ich benutze IoBroker zur Steuerung von allem. Das wiederum läuft auf Proxmox ich benutze nur einen Server hierfür es geht allerdings auch ein Cluster somit kann ein Server komplett ausfallen und alles läuft weiter.
Allerdings habe ich aktuell 9 virtuelle Maschienen am darauf am laufen, z.b PiHole OpenWB IoBroker Volkszähler Grafana ... und alles ist in 1 Std. wiederhergetellt.
Kann ich nur empfehlen.
Mach weiter so sehr gut anzuschauen die Videos.
Great to hear you are going with node red. I have been using it for my whole house for years now, it is really great.
That's good to hear, I have seen great things it can do. Hopefully it plays nicely with my solar to start with.
Can't wait for the shelf build, sadly I can't order the 304ah cell as they not shipping to South Africa.....
Any other sources I can try, finally ordered the clamp meter though.
Digital Mermaid sent me over to say hello. Interesting work you are doing with PV. I think I will subscribe to follow along. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for stopping by and leaving a kind comment.
I had a feeling you would eventually end up moving that inverter out of the cabinet. 🙃
Yes Andy. A good idea to close off the live wiring before calibrating a SPAT!
Absolutely 🍺
An interesting way to hook up your switchboard.Generally the three buss bars at the top are for 1-earthing,2-neutral and 3- RCD neutral.Never seen one used for active.Just check on that.
I agree, for safely there shouldn't be any active terminals you can touch easily with the cover off.
Exactly what I was thinking, you'dnormally have supply in to an isolation switch, that then feeds an insulated bus bar at the bottom.
Great video! Thanks Andy 🙂
Thanks, Garry!
I wish I had your weather, I'm in rural Sa and I'm stuck with rain and a max of 25 here and there.
Hi Andy, mal wieder toll, wie du Theorie und Praxis verschmelzen lässt. Saubere Ausführung. Kann mir vorstellen, wie ausgeregt du warst, den LS/RCD umzulegen. Vertrau allerdings bitte keinem Infrarotthermometer bei Kabel-Temperaturmessungen. Verschiedene Oberflächen haben verschiedene Emissionsfaktoren. Teste das mal einfach: Messe ein schwarzes und ein weißes Blatt Papier, welche gleich warm sind mit dem Thermometer...
Danke Dir. Ja, da ist wohl was dran. Meine FLIR Kamera ist immer noch nicht angekommen. Damit wird es einfacher so etwas darzustellen.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia danke für die Antwort. die Flir Kamera benötigt ebenfalls einen Emissionsfaktor, so ist es zumindest bei dem Gerät bei uns auf der Arbeit, wenn ich mich richtig erinnere. Dennoch ein geiles Teil. Ich freu mich schon auf die nächsten Videos.
Andy, The busbars are not to be used for connection of the phase conductor. This is extremely dangerous. Please install a main switch (isolator) for your phase connection. Cheers Dave (Registered electrician) Keep Safe !
Thanks Dave!
I agree.
Install a 63amp or 80amp Main Switch.
Depending on if you are using all the same brand RCBO's and what accessories manufacturer has, you may be able to get a nice insulated bus bar that links all the actives from main switch to rcbos aswell as linking the neutrals so you only need one neutral back to the neutral bar.
Thanks Andy, very enjoyable to look over your shoulder. I like your planning and work as well, however all that plastic hose they call 'conduit' is a bit out of the comfort zone for an Yankee Electrician, we like our heavy duty steel tubes and crude-ass SAE nuts and bolts.
I also love the Uni-bits, but I prefer aold Greenlee knock out punch as they are fast and clean. At 25:15, I thought, "Surely Andy as a set of metric KO' punches, but I just checked prices, and $400USD FOR A 5-PIEC METRIC SET Speed Punch kit! No wonder you love the UniBit.
Thanks Jack, I don't have any punches in that size and yes, they are expensive!
Mike Patey, an absolute genius has made rubber infused stainless zip ties so you can securely secure cables / wires without risking cutting the more delicate ones. Not sure if they're on the market yet, likely US first, but something to BOLO for.
Great videos with much to learn about the off-grid subject.
Greetings from Germany.
Thank you.
Just about time to update the "Subscriber" signage on the wall!!!
almost 17000 :)
Later, I haven't got time 😂
Finally, it's out of the box......
Very early, during building this box I tried to warn you.
The reason it moves is not heat though...
"grown-up apple juice" is best juice! ^_^
If you say this 😂
@@OffGridGarageAustralia it's extra true when it's cider!
Can I see in the future a Mini Split AC for the OGG? In Sunny Hot Australia. I see u use all your extra Capacity for the tesla but would be be nice to see a Andy install?
You won't believe how much cooler it is in the garage already with having covered over 60% of the roof in solar now. It already makes a huge difference.
Thanks Andy
Looking good!
Great installation & setup, I personally think having multiple systems in seperate component form would be better than one individual & integrated system.
If part of your system fails you most likely can still use it (or part of it) in separate component form. But if all intergrated together & fails you might have to wait several weeks without power for the replacement part.
Not a major issue yet but when your fully offgrid, it will be a major pain in the arse without any solar power & quite stressful.
Yes, I'm a bit torn here as I don't know yet how far these single systems are dependent on each other. If only one fails, it still may have complications for other systems as well. We will see...
Plan B? 21A? Ants? This is probably the sign, that you need another Raspi for a Raspiblitz.
Yes, it is the sidework, that hurts. I am moving my 12V test setup to the tractor these days. Lots of metal works included. And i have probably more distance to walk around...
No chance to get bored soon :-)
No, that's right. When I usually work in the garden somewhere and have to get tools, running back and forth to the garage it can easily add up to 5km+ a day. I'm too tired then to make a video 😂
Building little brackets and holders is insanely time consuming.
Strongly suggest you put some kind of frame around that very flexible sheet of ally. Great series.
A frame? Like a picture frame? The sheet is secured with screws on each side so is not flexible at all. It may look flexible when I pushed hard against it for drilling these holes.
Hi I'm from the Philippines🇵🇭 and I've been watching your videos for several weeks now. I didn't find if you had discussed already on one of your videos about the difference, advantages and disadvantages between Low frequency and High frequency inverters. If you have a time for it, can you please make a video about it? I know there is google to search, but with your experience about solar and stuffs, need your inputs about it. I'm planning to build my own home solar setups soon and yet to decide what type of inverter is best for my need, I already ordered batteries from Alibaba. You are one of my go to videos to deepen my knowledge about solar and stuff and I hope you will have this content soon. May others benefit on this topic too.
Keep sharing and godbless.
Make sure you ground each stainless steel cable tie. I have seen people forget to do that.
Argh, yes! Good call 😎
So what BMS/Active Balancer do we finally like? Thumbs up and subscribed!
I will go with the JK-BMS which has the 2A active balancer built-in. Great BMS, balancer and app. Just works and is very easy to use and setup, has CAN and RS485 so can talk to the SCC as well.
I love all of your videos but I've been jonesing for a solar/battery build video. You came through in spades today. Almost 38 minutes? Nice!
You're making some great power awesome
Kabelschuhe ! ;-) mach dir die Mühe ,es schaut sauberer aus und ist für den sicheren Betrieb der Anlage unabdingbar. Grüße aus good old Germany
Victron new design VE.Direct to USB cable has standard size USB plug, with electronics box about 100mm down the cable; so they fit properly in a Raspberry Pi
In fact as per the latest update to AS3000 all circuits are required to be RCD protected.
Yes, that's correct.
Belle configuration et merci pour la suite...
Merci beacoup!
great job. i would at least change that active busbar. well done tho
There will be a main switch coming soon.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia an mcb rcd rcbo busbar link will be the safest for your HV side.
What are you doing with men link and earth bar? I'm running a few circuits in house off the shed and im wondering do I have a earth stake at shed switchboard and men link in msb only. Do you class the shed as a second installation?
Good work Andy. The only thing I’d question is the aluminium sheet. In nearly all the fuse boxes I’ve looked into (admittedly not many) they use a non conducting material like timber or flame retardant sheet. At least in Australia. You’re also supposed to have cement sheet backing for your battery I believe.
Timber inside a fuse box???
The cement sheeting is just necessary if you have adjected living rooms to the battery location.
well done so far andy, you deserved your spat !!
njoy !
Thank you.
The lighting circuit has to be on RCD as well as per AS 3000
Yes, I know. I have ordered Rittal RCDs for all circuits and will install them on all circuits. It's a new installation, so need the upgrade.
yay
Good to see a German taking advice from an Austrian
17:00 (ish) Just stick with a dumb bi-metal temp switch, like a Rittal SK 3110.000, for example. Nothing you need to code, just "program" the dial to your needs and that's it.
The Rittal is rated even for up to 60VDC and 250VAC, you just have to use the right terminals.
Greetings from Germany.
But where should I place it? The idea was to have several temp sensors inside the cabinet and if one goes over a set threshold it starts the fan.
On the other hand I can just place the thermo switch at the top of the cabinet and set it to 35°C and let it do its thing. In summer time it will run non-stop though but the fans use only 200mA.
Yeah, ok, that could be a quick option/solution...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Yes, do just as you mentioned: Place it near the top of the cabinet. Doesn't need to be put on its ceiling, but around where the most upper equipment is placed, that you deem temperature sensitive.
These Rittal thermal switches last for decades. I think, you'll be rearranging that cabinet multiple times, before that thing will eventually fail.
And 200mA? These things do switch some really beefy fans (500cfm, for example) in our cabinets here without issues.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia just use a small 12v solar panel on the roof for the fans direct, sun comes up fans spin up, nothing to fail no temp switches, it couldnt be simpler.
I like this idea...
Use the pool to cool down.😁
I do!!! 🏊
Hello Andy. Nice video. II have few suggestions.
- Take those charger outside the box - you don't need to cool them (at least for now)..then you should create that software for fan to stay on during day time..i done similar setup..only i used that 100A charger..and it get pretty warm..and not just it ..also i put 125A F fuse and even this one get warm..but at least not so much..
- I think that AL plate on hinges is bad bad bad idea..for now it might work..but what when you want to use second one..or what if you will come with 5kW inverter..or 10kW inverter..those are heavy inverter..and those hinges will not last..on another side you don't need to bother to place cables behind it..yes it looks clean..but who cares..you will be changing it again..and you are only wasting time with it (sorry to say) .i changed my system so many times i forgot how many it was ..and i think you will too.
- i'm not sure but maybe yoy might be able place second inverter into that same AL plate ..not sure..it is maybe possible. And just parallel them..
- I would use that 25mm protective sheet and place it inside that charger with cables..or make bigger space for your cable protection
- i would also move and increase/expand your busbars..you will need to anyway..one should stay as is and second pole i would place above..now you have space for it..
-If i will think/see something else i will let you know..:)
Thanks for your suggestions.
I really would like to keep all the solar controllers and cabling in this cabinet. If I take them out, I don't need fan cooling any more, right? 😉
The hinges are fine, I hung on it and they didn't not move at all. Once we get bigger inverters we will see... The cables need to be in conduit or duct anyway, so why not hide them behind the sheet. I like this clean setup.
I cannot parallel this inverter with another one, so it will be a replacement or a second one connected to different circuits.
The busbars inside the cabinet will go once the battery shelf is in place. All SCC will connect directly to new busbar inside the shelf.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia To be honest I would suggest to use fan even if outside..I think those chargers get pretty toasty once they work on max of their potential. I got 100A Unit and in morning hours it went to 60 or 70 degree..or more ..i don't mind but when you can't even touch it so hot it is ..i think it is better to place small fan in front of it and cool it off...This worked for me so far..i have this setup for about 2 months and i'm pretty happy about it....yes i forgot that you can't parallel that inverter..maybe that is why it is a bit cheaper than that with transformer..those cost a bit more but they can do it..but ofc weight is even higher..
Your favorite tool...A METRIC Unibit.
It would be VERY easy to configure a hardware button to shutdown the raspi.
I posted the code and links with my previous reply in the other video, but am unsure if they actually posted.
If you don't plan on re-configuring the Pi once its all set up; (if it doesnt need to save logs or anything) there is a built-in feature in raspi-config to enable it to load all the OS and what its doing to memory at bootup; and you block write access to the SD. The SD lasts years and years longer since it's disallowed to write to the card and just does everything from memory.
If you need to retain logs on the raspi; then this option may not be for you (you would need to redirect the log files to a network share for example)
Id be glad to help you get it sorted and configured; it is mind-numbingly simple to set up for a manual pushbutton; and possibly just edit the code on the raspi app to call the shutdown script from the raspi app you use (if able).
You should take the outer white sheath on your cables if you put them in conduit. The current rating of the cables is for the cable in free air, once inside conduit it drops so by getting rid of that extra sheath of insulation you should get back your current rating inside the conduit
Max amp is 11A from the inverter though.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia The other thing probably more important in your case, it makes getting the wires through the conduit easier. You will not have all that extra insulation to contend with
As long as you can't connect the house to the garage, wouldn't it make sense to use some thermal solar panels to make your hot water? This would increase the amount of solar power to sell.
No, the hot water power is on a separate circuit (cheaper tariff) and is not affecting the solar export. I also have a Sonoff installed in the hot water system so I can control when it turns on. In Summer time, we have it running for 2 h every two days only and in Winter for 3h every day. That is always after sunset anyway. It's a 1.7kW heating element.
Thermal solar hot water systems are around $6k down here and it would take like 27 years until it is worth doing from a pure financial perspective.
Why do you turn off chargers before Solar Breakers?
Should it be Solar Breakers First?
Can you explain to us beginners how and where and when the neutral and watch need to be connected together in a circuit like this?
Very nice video again. Andy you said that you can do a lot with the raspi. Is it also possible to control all the Victron gear to do a controlled load of the vehicle. I'm looking forward to buy all the gear from Victron (charger, multiplus inverter, ...) but still searching for a possibility to do some code to check what comes from solar, what is in the battery and then decide how much and when to load the electric vehicle (send a load signal to the wallbox). Do you know if this is possible from the raspi? (also this questions goes to all of you)
Andy , are the hinges strong enough, Inverter alone seemed to be heavy? Well at 23:00 you asked the same question !
Yes, they are. I hung on the AL sheet and they didn't not move.
Just get a STC-3008 Dual Digital Temperature Controller two in one device , dual thermistors , dual read out , dual relays cost about $20 they come in 12v , 24v and 240v. With these you can have two stage fans turn one set on at a temperature turn the next set on if the first ones are not enough and if something goes wrong they beep at you.
That sound complicated though. They can turn on at the same time, I guess.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia They are pretty simple really two temperature controllers with relay outputs. They have some nice functions you can set the on/off at different temperatures I use similar units to run external fans on my inverters to keep the heat sinks below 40c they come on at 38c and go off at 30c I have the alarm set at 48c you can see the temperature at any time on the display.
Hey Andy,
Just finished a victron MultiplusII 15kW three phase offgrid (ESS) installation at a friends house and saw your video from a while ago.
I think it's perfectly possible to meet all your requirements with regards to feed in with the multipluses. With the current installation, I can set charging schedules, self consumption etc.
Even grid setpoints are possible where you send an mqtt message, telling the victrons to take or feed X amount of watts to/from the grid.
My company is currently making the software to 'play the grid' prices with this setup. Take energy from grid when prices are low to even negative(!, you get paid to consume electricity), then when prices are high, export it back to the grid.
Let me know if I can help in any way!!
That is not legal in QLD at the moment with a Multiplus if your friend already has solar and gets the high FIT from the QLD Government, unless he has a seprate switchboard for off grid and on grid supply. The Multiplus II is connected to the grid (via two relay) and also to the battery at the same time , therefore considered as an upgrade to the existing solar inverter. There is the potential, that the Multi will feed energy back to the grid from the battery allowing the customer to earn more money from the high FIT.
I went through all of that with Springers Solar and there is literally no way to circumnavigate this for me at the moment due to the missing cables between garage and house.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia
Hmm, I'm in Europe, so it's different here, but I just rewatched some of your videos to understand.
If I understand correctly, there's three cables running from the meterbox to the house: L2, L3 and PEN. Can't you disconnect L2 entirely in the meterbox and hook it up to the garage instead? Rewiring your consumer unit in the house to only use L2 shouldn't be too difficult. Then L3 only connects to PV inverter on the house and goes straight to the grid. QLD government can't complain about that, right?
What diameter cable are L2&L3? This might be a limitation if your house consumes a lot.
@@koffibanan3099 there is a max 5Kw / phase limit in Qld to send solar up the lines, so this also sets some limits here, plus whatever is drawn into your contract with the power authority.
Hello Andy,do you know what about inside this inverter Victron phoenix 12V/1200VA? Its have toroidal trasformer? Its low or high Frequency? Its worth it to buy it?
Best regards
Jim Akritidis Greece
Plan "B" for Beer?
Sshhh...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Here enjoy one on me.
The victron cerbo gx is the real authentic monitoring thing like you're using your raspberry pi for it can have temperature sensors and it has relays built in it plus it is powered directly by the DC already so you don't need a converter it has the Wi-Fi and Bluetooth built on it and then it connects to the inverter by the Ethernet cable you can also do remote programming
Of course this cost more money
Yes, that is correct and would be a solution.
My inverter does not have an ethernet port though, only Ve.direct
Andy where did you get the rip conduct please?
The one under the panels? I'll link it on my website when I'm back home...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Thanks Andy, they would take me out , and shoot me in Victoria. If I got it wrong.
Updated the website now with the loom: off-grid-garage.com/electric-installation/
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Thanks mate, up to that stage, just putting last 4 panels up.
Ever thought about branching out in to solar powered air con for the garage?
Do they have the mini splits in Australia? They work nice with Solar
The panels on the roof make already a huge difference. Unbelievable!
Hmm the metal door back plane is hung on 6 pop rivet's... if that fails is it then just hung on the Live wires against a metal plate !
No, they are not rivets.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia opps sorry :)
Having 3 or 4 panels for controlling the system is not more secure than having just one. Each one can fail, and if are link of the chain, the whole system fails. One single control is as good as 3 individual controls. Just be sure you have an alternative way of "manual" control for the case the "integrated" control fails,
Jose
A manual override, so to speak. Yeah, that's a good idea to keep in mind.
Does the inverter have holes in back for wires to go directly into the wall? Seems like it should so you don't need to use conduits.
This compartment is the only way to connect the inverter.
Build the damn battery already! 😀
Wait, there is more 🙂
What’s your max Current on the 230 output of the inverter? Is 2.5 mm2 sufficient to carry the current?
It's a 3kVA inverter. Yes 2.5mm is sufficient.
I’m a growatt dealer I can send you other inverters and products you should try the low frequency units I have a 5000 watt inverter 450 volt MPPT built in charge controller we also have mid point transformers to make it 120 /240 with a neutral
I cannot use 450V DC strings due to the shading in winter time. I have only 150V strings for that reason.
I can only install pure off grid inverters at the moment due to the high FIT contract in QLD.
Not sure if you are in Australia too as we don't use the split phase system down here...
Get 2 unit with two 450 volt stings and thats 10.000 watts and a midpoint transformer fkr the neutral
Heya, I know what you mean as a diy-er me self with a small budget your upgrading and re-areensing things as the time goes bye
We say the same s^*t in the USA when working on solar stuff...Everything uses “standard” sockets until we get to all of that odd ball metric hardware. Hehe. Any good mechanic/DIY’er has a set of metric tools. Not as big as standard stuff, but I have a bunch.
The rachet set kit has both metric and imperial so 💪
Dont't you have to be a licenced electrician to work on solar in Australia?
Bitte bitte, verteil die Phase nicht über den unisolierten Klemmblock. Der große ist wahrscheinlich für PE und die zwei kleinen für zwei getrennte N für getrennte rcd's
Nein, das ist so nicht gedacht. Die Klemmen haben eindeutige Beschriftungen fuer den Anschluss. Normalerweise hat das Switchboard noch eine Bruecke zwischen N und PE, den sog. M.E.N. Link (zwischen den beiden kleineren Bloecken). Den habe ich natuerlich entfernt, weil das der Inverter schon eingebaut hat.
Hier in Österreich sind die Klemmleisten selbst auch nochmal isoliert. So ein offenes System habe ich noch nicht gesehen ^^ Viele Grüsse
You could quit your job and become an off-grid installer, people would pay good $ for your expertise
I would need to get my German licence recognised here in AU before that...