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EPDM Rubber Roof: Biggest Problems commercial roofing
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- Опубліковано 12 кві 2017
- EPDM Roofing: Biggest Problems commercial roofing
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Love this guy , proper roofer. It’s true it can shrink and dry out in the sun, especially since it’s black.. Mainly it happens because of rushed and improper prepping. before you put your epdm primer and seam tape on, your supposed to wipe off that factory residue and dirt with some membrane cleaner.. Really scrub that shit clean along your seam first.
This roof was installed before Reinforced perimeter strip was incorporated into spec
I have been doing epdm roof for 15 years. I service these roofs twice a year and and every time I go to one of them, they still look new.
Why do they need servicing twice a year. Torch on only needs a look over every 20 years.
They didn’t install RPF stripping. That’s what keeps the membrane from pulling away from the wall
The coefficient of expansion for EPDM is 1.1E-4 in/inºF. That means a 200 foot long nonadhered roof with a surface temperature of 140ºF in the sun on a 90º summer day when it's installed will shrink 37 inches on a day when it's 0ºF. This must be accounted for on mechanically attached and ballasted systems. I bet if you had an extra 37 inches, it wouldn't be stretching from the walls... That was definitely a workmanship issue. A membrane that fits without wrinkles in the summer is cut short!
You're picking out an older ballasted roof. Epdm has been vastly improved over the years to last a good 30 years. All flat roof types have advantages and disadvantages. Built up asphalt is heavy on a roof and is labor intensive. Mod bit can leak like crazy if plies aren't lapped correctly. TPO is a newer membrane that hasn't been time tested. But all of them are good options when installed by a reputable, skilled roofing contractor and backed by a manufacturer warranty.
I would warn people against contractors that lambast and ridicule certain roof types as always bad and only install one type. It's likely because they aren't familiar with it as they are another, or they can make more money installing a multi ply heavy roof.
The reason it pulled away from the walls(stretched) is because is it was not terminated correctly at the bottom of the walls. This is due to incorrect installation...
EPDM is excellent if installed right and is used on landfills and green roofs. Far better than fibreglass or liquid systems on larger areas which crack open
That is due it incorrect installation. There is no RPF strip connecting the EPDM to the up-stand. The split in the seam is due to incorrect installation on the seam. We give a 30 year warrant on all EPDM products so stating that it only lasts 8 years is false.
Robert Brooker so that’s a 30 year labor warranty?
Installation problem every manual addresses this potential issue. When done correctly its a 40 year roof. I can show you one in Elkhart Indiana EFP Corporation I put on 25 years ago and it dont look like that.
I've seen EPDM roofs when installed correctly, and under the right environmental conditions, last over 30 years without a problem. However, pound for pound, I'd have to go w/ TPO. There are several factors but it's primarily the welded seam technology.
Tpo had a very bad reputation, its cardboard like properties have proven to be so problematic that the big companies have stopped manufacturing it anymore.
It was supposed to be the upgrade to the ever problematic and short life of pvc but its lack of flexibility rendered it a failure.
So if I were you I would look away from tpo.
Google problems with tpo.
The longevity of TPO is much shorter than EPDM, and it is more expensive. I think the video shows the weakness in the material is poor installation. Unless you are doing it yourself, it is very hard to control that. The vast majority of airports, shopping malls, and other flat roof buildings in the USA are EPDM, and most of them are not leaking. So, I think it is still overall the best material out there.
TPO is slippery as hell with just a little bit of frost on it, I’ve seen a few guys get hurt on it
Mostly bad installation. Especially 3" Seam Tape on a BEPDM Roof?!? Should have been 6". But im also seeing no wall fasteners, no Reinforced Underlayment Securement Strip, nothing. This was cheaply done, and porrly, even for the old age it is. I will agree EPDM may not be the best, especially ballasted as opposed to Mechanically Attached or Adhered, but Ive seen 30 year old EPDM in better shape than a 3 year old TPO, including a few Goodyear roofs that are still in good shape (no pun intended).
EPDM can be an amazing system. Done Right.
Emphasize done right. on a large ballast it should be a 6" seam tape or 3" seam tape with 6" overpayment strip. Securement strips at all angle changes, Peel stop for Ballasted, etc. Its all about preperation
I would just add to some of the other comments, the roof has not been correctly installed, there should also be mechanical fixing at the joins in the roof, which the top strip then covers, and if all the areas are prepared correctly and the right procedure is followed this won't happen. I have never seen it on any of the work that I have done and this type of video gives the wrong impression, its those fitting it that need to be called out and not the product.
Improper Installation. EPDM is quite possibly the best membrane for large buildings. This example exhibits an improper installation installed in the least expensive manor. Ballast gravel. I have seen the roofs last for over 30 years with an original install cost in the late 80's of under $1.00 psf.
Never Epdm, always the installer right! Go talk shit somewhere else! It’s a shit product! End of story!
just fighting now with hertalan epdm on my open terrace, the glue sticks to everything except the membrane. The glue just get unstuck and membrane is bubbling. Cant understand how this glue works, it sticks to support but doesnt stick to membrane.
I have a roof in CT that looks flat to the eye and is a black 10 ft seams wide material covered with a layer of pea sized rocks. It is completely drained after a rain in about 2 hours, and completely dry after 4-6 hours. What peel and stick product will work on this? Most contractors that have looked at the roof have no clue. I want to strip it down, replace any bad plywood than use a peel and stick application only, (no fumes allowed). Any advice from anyone is much appreciated. Thanks
You know what this video needs.... a longer intro
Total nonsense. 1. That roof is closer to 30 years old than seven. 2. Not properly installed - lack proper attachment at angle change (base of wall), seam were either done with adhesive or not properly cleaned and primed prior to installing seam tape. 3. EPDM most defiantly does not "Dry Out". 4. Ballasted membrane roofs will shrink, weather EPDM, TPO or PVC, the design should include control and expansion joints to minimize the effects of shrinking. Like any roof system it will fail over time but with proper maintenance it will perform for decades.
Not about EPDM ,the sistem is not good. I do EPDM roofing for 20 years this never happened in my jobs.
Isn’t this just bad fitting? Or wrong material for the size or roof
Any membrane with rock ballast shrinks and pulls away from the walls.
All roofing systems have their flaws. Ballasted Epdm is the cheapest way to go these days. Almost noone does hot mop(near me anyway), and its either Epdm, TPO or PVC. On occasion we will do cold process.
Full of it mate
What's the purpose of the gravel on the roof
great video
Do you think that the heat stored by the rock attributes to the shrinking? I wonder if it would do the same thing covered with dirt?
trying to live cheaply this roof was probably installed incorrectly. If installed correctly there is a strip that is screwed with plates about every 8 inches around the parameters. That really locks the membrane in place.
@@816thatguy rpf
Soil and sand is ground up rock with a tiny amount of organic matter (often not even measured). The finer particle size of soil would allow it to hold moisture for a while which WOULD be cooler during the damp times. Soil it is likely to blow away unless it is planted (green roof). In a nutshell I don't think it is an option unless you are doing a greenroof design. (Completely different).
wrong this is due to improper installation
I don’t think I saw that strip at base of flashings with fasteners too
If the product was that bad no one would be using it ?
My friend single ply is one of the best roof in the roofing industry do me a favor the flat roofs to the big boys like us stick to your residential & shingles. Thank you.
4 ply fly gravel with hot asphalt better
My deck was built over my garage and EPDM was used at the roof but also serves as the flooring. The builder did install rubber thick mats but I'm curious if overtime walking on it will damage it and cause leaks? We use our deck pretty much everyday.
Thanks
If the membrane was installed directly to plywood, and you stay on the "thick mats" (walk pads) you should be fine. If the roof was installed over insulation is exposed to a lot of traffic (or you put lawn furniture up there) I would install extra protection.
Hi Dmitry, I just saw a video about the Firestone FullForce where you can install it during cold weather . They say it's a better EPDM. Have you done any research on that product? I learn so much from your channel. Thanks so much for your time! David Claussen
Why the stones on the rubber? They heat in the sun and damage the rubber.
Paul Piche I imagine its to protect from the sun. Same as on mod bit roofs
The rocks are ballast to keep roof from blowing off
Installed properly... not sure where you learned how to roof.
Interesting. Thanks.
trying to get an idea on how fast EPDM degrades/shrinks when exposed to the sun. How old would you say this roof is?
EPDM lasts 50 years but the mastic used at all the penatration is only gauranteed for 10 years.
This renders EPDM on the low end of waterproofing systems with a high-end price.
So imo use a liquid system or good old felt.
Peaky_Blinder what liquid system do you recommend?
My friend, leave the commercial jobs to the big boys stick to your ice dams in your residential. Thank you.
EDPM is rubber?
yes
Yes it is , but if you have to cut the sheet then the sheet becomes reliable on a bead of mastic
So not a good product at all.
Does your opinion differ by brand? I am curious what your response to Firestone's claim of the first application of EPDM roofing they installed under their own brand in 1980 they claim is still performing 36 years later. They have a video on UA-cam about their product I quoted them from. Otherwise, I wonder how much of your opinion is formed from seeing unskilled and dishonest roofers cutting corners and/or using inferior products. I have no interest in vouching for Firestone, I still make jokes about Firestone tires on Ford Explorers to this day.
ua-cam.com/video/uLuAwbEoLEw/v-deo.html
Do you recommend TPO or Modified Bitumen? Thanks!
Hi Roofer News,
I personally as a roofing consultant, would recommend modified bitumen all the way. Mainly because a EPDM
roof assembly is only a single ply protecting your investment, which Modified Bitumen is a 2 ply roof system.
A EPDM membrane can also be punctured very easily, which usually lead to expensive repairs. A Modified Bitumen roof assembly is a very low maintenance system.
Hope this helps,
Do not listen to this guy. EPDM systems are still the best systems on the market. A ballast EPDM system is the cheapest system you can buy. You get what you pay for. I have been installing commercial single ply roofing for 27 years and have many 20-27 year old EPDM roof still performing today.
Worked in insurance rubber roofs have significantly more claims
@@MrT398that's because dumbasses install them there should be a anchoring bar at the bottom of the parapet wall holding the running surface membrane in place.
Also the parapet walls and running surface membranes should be made in two parts, not one part.
Poor worksmanship is the issue here, very typical of american roofers.
There's better and stronger roofing membranes than epdm, i mean is good for fish ponds but not to protect your biggest investment your home or business.
Not when properly installed. Expansion joint/donkey dick every 50ft and term bars w 1/2in slack at all wall tops.
That roof is a piss poor example. Not to mention ballast is the worst application, cat inspect/clean/patch field membrane. Saturn button or bar system. Only way to install epdm systems
This guy is just flat out wrong with his summation. While it's true that this roof was improperly put on (probably by the cheapest bidder), it is a poor example for why you shouldn't trust EPDM roofs. We service and install EPDM, TPO, and PVC roofs. EPDM is a very good, long lasting material. We prefer not to install EPDM roofs with a rock-ballasted system as fully adhered is the best way to go for longevity. If this guy was genuinely honest then he would tell you that most EPDM roofs are still serviceable and intact after 25 years. It's a complete sham to say they would fail in under 10 years...total nonsense!
I am a professional roofer of 37 years,
I am qualified in most liquid systems, pvc, slate, tile, Bauder approved, and EPDM approved installer and I must say out of all the systems EPDM is the worse out of them all.
Unless the sheet is fully vulcanised at every penatration the system is absolut garbage as the whole system is relying on a bead of mastic.
They call it liquid rubber but to me it is mastic and I have had to rectify so many EPDM roofs now that I will never use this system again.
The only system incorporating a rubber membrane that gets close to the mark is a tpe coated rubber that then becomes compatable with bituminous products.
So stay away from EPDM as once the mastic fails, your roof is useless.
No
Pro what?
This should have mechanical anchor points at the upstands and across a roof of that size. Product is only as good as the installer. This guys on the TPO payroll. Very one-sided video.
The truth is, EPDM is not a roofing material.
Some Russian guy trying to up sell.
+simon nomis 😂😂😂
Guy has no clue! Wow!