Your taking rubbish, ha! Edit.. I eat my words! Indeed, the wide stereo field is lost with the Primo EM272's and can't be adjusted in post with my simple setup using Audacity.
@@sr3d-microphones do a other video and click your fingers around the mic. The low frequencies are omnidirectional but as you progress up the frequency spectrum an Omni mic becomes less omnidirectional which is why you'll have some diffusion on close up subjects but anything spaced out at a distance will sound mono and will certainly not reproduce a wide stereo field like you get using cardioids in XY.
@@Goat.HerderSure, I'll have another go when I get the other Zoom H1E next week, I'll be comparing them side by side in a video, so it's an interesting observation that I assumed nothing had changed. I'll try to get wide field and narrow field recordings, so both recorders are recording the same thing, modified and original. Though it wouldn't bother me that much if what you say turns out to be true, as I don't use them for their inbuilt mics, I did it because I was simply curious as to why the original capsules were somewhat noisy and much quieter than when I plugged in the binaural mic, quite a few people have mentioned in other videos the noise levels were not too good at all, and I can see why, I should imagine the modified ones would be great for instrument recordings though, I do like the recorder very much, as it adds simplicity to my binaural capturing devices.
@@sr3d-microphones That's true. I'd like to find a source that offers cardioid capsules with a low noise level and low cost like the PUI ones but I've not had any luck finding any as being able to upgrade the Zoom mics with decent cardioid capsules would be excellent.
You were indeed correct, the wide stereo field is lost with the Primo EM272's and can't be adjusted in post with my simple setup using Audacity. The Original capsules do have some front facing directionality, whereas the Primo's are wider and as so, the wide stereo filed is lost. I have learned something new, thank you. This mod is probably not worth bothering with, and if you want better sensitivity you can always add one of my SR3D basic or DIY kits to the mic in on the unit or your existing Primo EM272's.
That difference in quality is sensational. I've got an old Tascam Dr100Mkiii that I love because the preamps are amazing, unfortunately it has the usual "rattling" microphone problem. I often wondered if I could remove those mics and replace them with some capsules if that would work to remove the rattling but also improve the quality of the inbuilt mics. I've no knowledge on this kind of stuff so I assumed not, but it seems like putting these capsules in the handhelds can be done fairly easily if you know what you are doing. I think those capsules in the Zoom H1Essential thought are the perfect compliment to the unit. I have been using the SR3D a lot recently with the Zoom H1 Essential and haven't noticed a speck of noise and the clarity is unbelievable. Today, I tried to use the inbuilt mics for a quick recording and the difference is night and day. I'd go as far as to say I will try to refrain from using the inbuilt mics in future because the SR3D is significantly better.
Indeed, the clock test is quite n eye-opener for me, the original capsules in the Zoom the clock is very quiet, and if you boost the gain all it does is bring up the noise floor, but the Primo capsules seem to complement the unit very well, and seem to add an extra 6db of gain without the noise, or there about, I'm only guessing though as I'm not sure how to test for that exact figure. I think I will take the H1E out with me a few times in the rest of the month to get some random recordings of the new set of capsules in it, so that it may be interesting for others who maybe want to try upgrading the mics themselves. It is a little fiddly, esp the tiny cap which is only a few mm in size that's soldered between the contacts on the capsule, I don't think it would really affect it that much if you did it without them in there if you found it too fiddly to solder, simply soldering the wires to the new capsules is very easy. Maybe if anyone is in the UK and wants me to give theirs an upgrade for a small fee to cover my time and the capsules, I could do this, or maybe if I get another unit to pass on, I could video the procedure, though soldering the tiny caps isn't something that I have been doing at all, and this was the first time in doing it in my line of work, I think am ok at soldering, but if someone more skilled watched me they would probably call me a rookie! ha!
I have a lot of confidence that your soldering capabilities are far superior to mine haha. I don't think I have soldered anything since middle school. Fiddly is a word that genuinely frightens me, I'm not good with fiddly things haha. I'd definitely be interested if you were to offer that possibility of upgrading the capsules & it would be brill to see some more tests with those capsules built in too. I always wanted to try something like that with my Sony A10, but I suspect that would be even more fiddly than the zoom because the mics rotate to 3 different positions. Maybe that wouldn't cause any issues though, I'm not sure. I just couldn't forgive myself if I broke any of my recorders. I think these capsules are the perfect compliment to the zoom, particularly with 32bit float etc. They missed a trick there by not upgrading the microphones or preamps at all. I'd have never expected F series quality, but they could have met in the middle somewhere and upgraded the mic capsules and preamps slightly. To leave these the same after all these years is incredibly frustrating. @@sr3d-microphones
Thanks for your interesting video! I was just thinking about this mod, probably using a PUI AOM 5024, a capsule that I judge a bit better than EM 272, same size and type at the end. It'll be really useful if you'll post a video for the operations to modify the unit. Thanks for all!
Very interesting, I just had a quick look at the specs on the capsule you mention, they look basically the same except for a slight increase of sensitivity. It would be great to hear your before and after recordings to compare them. I'm still waiting on two more H1E's to arrive, so I will do a few more comparisons later. Thank you very much for your comment. I'll go check out your channel and probably subscribe to you while I'm there by the sounds of it :O)
I have received an order of 25 PUI AOM 5024 and have selected a few for matching purposes and I have to be honest with testing them in my SR3D XLR Pro with existing circuits... I am astonished at their performance, with an almost 20db gain over the Primo EM272Z1's! This would make for an incredible microphone with my binaural microphones that use phantom power, noise levels would be no existent... as you have to lower the gain in post with a 32bit float recorder as they are quite hot, I'll be conducting more tests over the coming weeks and months, so thank you very much for pointing out these babies as I had assumed you couldn't get any better than the primo EM272's for omnidirectional binaural capture.
What this test really shows is how good the Zoom H1e would be if they fitted better capsules. People get hung up on the pre amp quality when really it's the self noise of the mics which is the limiting issue. I wonder if you could track down some low noise cardioid capsules and have another go? P.S. Still loving my SR3D!
Already on the case! ha! Though I don't think they are cardioid, but I've 25 of them coming as their sensitivity are a little better than the EM272's, 10db down on max SPL but about the same S/N so it wasn't too expensive to get these, and they are much cheaper than the EM272's, though I have over 1000 in stock of Primo's so should last a little while, it will be fun checking them out when they arrive anyway, another commenter has said that they thought that another manufacturer were thinking about another capsule, so I'll try to keep my SR3D ears to the ground!
@@sr3d-microphones I'd be surprised if the original zoom H1 capsules weren't cardioid, XY stereo is usually done with cardioid mics. You might find another stream of business retrofitting people's H1s with better capsules! :)
@@WiP999Indeed, I'm looking into it as I type. Uni-directional are indeed the originals, and em272's are omni, so I've already ordered another primo, but uni-directional, they are *much* more expensive than the EM272's BTW.
@@wenjun_n EDIT!! Read you message wrong, I thought you were talking EM272.. not EM282! Yes cardioid for this mod if you want a wide stereo field, I am actively looking for another uni-directional capsule to see if it can still be improved keeping the stereo field, I have a few different types in mind and no doubt the 282 will eventually land here!
Good job! Is the process of replacing the built-in microphone the same as welding other lavalier microphones? Did you encounter any difficulties during this time?
@@钟锐松 I would advise not to do the modification as you would loose the stereo effect due to non unidirectional capsules, simply plugging in EM272 stereo pair as an external microphone would be the very best thing to do here.
@@sr3d-microphones But if it's a pair of single-pointing mics such as the EM164 it will restore the soundstage, right? Also, do I need to dismantle the whole unit to replace the original mic?
@@钟锐松 Yes, they should do it as they are cardioid, and you would have to dismantle the unit, it's quite simple, but be aware of small plastic parts. I wouldn't know if this would be advantageous to do, to be honest. I think I uploaded me dismantling it in another zoom H1E video on my channel somewhere.
Wouldn’t the em282 cardioid be a good replacement for the internal ones? I know they’re a bit expensive but it would be kinda nice to have higher quality internal mics.
I tried a pair of EM264Y and the results were kinda disappointing as the levels were about the same, iv'e still yet to make some recordings to compare them, but I've been quite busy of late, but it's on the cards to do so, I'm not that excited to test other mics due to my findings of the EM264Y as I imagined that they would have been much better than the zoom originals, but it looks like zoom did a good job in selecting the ones that they did, I can't see why there's noise on their capsules though, but compared with the EM272's it's quite spectacular, though the stereo field is lost, if I get time this summer I may just try some experiments, but without opening up the H1E, I'll just plug them into the external socket first, to see if it's worthwhile doing a swap out. Thanks for making the suggestion!
But you have replaced the two directional microphones with omni capsules (EM272). So by my understanding, although you have more sensitive mics and less noise you can no longer capture much of a stereo image.
Your understanding is inhibiting you in realising that the stereo field has not been changed at all, until, that is, I plug in the binaural mics. The original mics are not directional in the 180 degree field of view, and the same applies for the EM272's so nothing has changed except the sensitivity.
You are correct, and my assumption was wrong 😑 I tested both the capsules I removed and compared the capture ‘zone’ they do indeed have a form of directionality compared to the EM272’s, so the mod maybe ok for close up instrument and other close up sounds, but field recording would be better suited with the originals even with their poor noise performance. I’ll keep mine the way it is and do some tests side by side with another H1E when it arrives next week sometime.
@@sr3d-microphones- I believe I read recently that one of the mic manufacturers is soon going to be producing a new quieter cardioid capsule (maybe a new Sonorous Objects S.03?). That would be an interesting replacement for the zoom mics. I have used the Clippy Mics EM184 cardioid capsule but it is not as quiet as the EM272.
@@middle-aged-herpersThanks for the info, AR3D ears are now on the ground :O) Maybe if you hear anything before I do you could ping me a message when it happens?
Is it easy to open the H1e? I opened the old H1 without difficulties, in the past. As I said in a previous comment, it'll be useful a your video on this mod. Thanks!
Quite easy, the casing ‘snaps’ in place so it’s a little tricky parting using finger nails. Gentle persuasion from the bottom of the unit will part the two halves apart, the mic end is a little stubborn. The USB part has two screws that do not need to be undone, there’s a screw inside that has a blade of metal film that goes to each mic housing base for grounding that has to be removed, which is simple to remove and replace. I have a selection of star/philips screw drivers but don’t know which is which that are quite tiny that fit the body screws perfectly, these are defo needed!
Really thanks for the useful info, I'll try surely to exchange the capsules with the Omni I previously said. Another info: are the original Uni capsules of 8 mm or 10 mm in diameter?
You get better noise levels but you've essentially just got a mono recording.
Your taking rubbish, ha!
Edit.. I eat my words!
Indeed, the wide stereo field is lost with the Primo EM272's and can't be adjusted in post with my simple setup using Audacity.
@@sr3d-microphones do a other video and click your fingers around the mic. The low frequencies are omnidirectional but as you progress up the frequency spectrum an Omni mic becomes less omnidirectional which is why you'll have some diffusion on close up subjects but anything spaced out at a distance will sound mono and will certainly not reproduce a wide stereo field like you get using cardioids in XY.
@@Goat.HerderSure, I'll have another go when I get the other Zoom H1E next week, I'll be comparing them side by side in a video, so it's an interesting observation that I assumed nothing had changed. I'll try to get wide field and narrow field recordings, so both recorders are recording the same thing, modified and original. Though it wouldn't bother me that much if what you say turns out to be true, as I don't use them for their inbuilt mics, I did it because I was simply curious as to why the original capsules were somewhat noisy and much quieter than when I plugged in the binaural mic, quite a few people have mentioned in other videos the noise levels were not too good at all, and I can see why, I should imagine the modified ones would be great for instrument recordings though, I do like the recorder very much, as it adds simplicity to my binaural capturing devices.
@@sr3d-microphones That's true. I'd like to find a source that offers cardioid capsules with a low noise level and low cost like the PUI ones but I've not had any luck finding any as being able to upgrade the Zoom mics with decent cardioid capsules would be excellent.
You were indeed correct, the wide stereo field is lost with the Primo EM272's and can't be adjusted in post with my simple setup using Audacity. The Original capsules do have some front facing directionality, whereas the Primo's are wider and as so, the wide stereo filed is lost. I have learned something new, thank you.
This mod is probably not worth bothering with, and if you want better sensitivity you can always add one of my SR3D basic or DIY kits to the mic in on the unit or your existing Primo EM272's.
That difference in quality is sensational.
I've got an old Tascam Dr100Mkiii that I love because the preamps are amazing, unfortunately it has the usual "rattling" microphone problem. I often wondered if I could remove those mics and replace them with some capsules if that would work to remove the rattling but also improve the quality of the inbuilt mics.
I've no knowledge on this kind of stuff so I assumed not, but it seems like putting these capsules in the handhelds can be done fairly easily if you know what you are doing.
I think those capsules in the Zoom H1Essential thought are the perfect compliment to the unit.
I have been using the SR3D a lot recently with the Zoom H1 Essential and haven't noticed a speck of noise and the clarity is unbelievable. Today, I tried to use the inbuilt mics for a quick recording and the difference is night and day. I'd go as far as to say I will try to refrain from using the inbuilt mics in future because the SR3D is significantly better.
Indeed, the clock test is quite n eye-opener for me, the original capsules in the Zoom the clock is very quiet, and if you boost the gain all it does is bring up the noise floor, but the Primo capsules seem to complement the unit very well, and seem to add an extra 6db of gain without the noise, or there about, I'm only guessing though as I'm not sure how to test for that exact figure. I think I will take the H1E out with me a few times in the rest of the month to get some random recordings of the new set of capsules in it, so that it may be interesting for others who maybe want to try upgrading the mics themselves. It is a little fiddly, esp the tiny cap which is only a few mm in size that's soldered between the contacts on the capsule, I don't think it would really affect it that much if you did it without them in there if you found it too fiddly to solder, simply soldering the wires to the new capsules is very easy. Maybe if anyone is in the UK and wants me to give theirs an upgrade for a small fee to cover my time and the capsules, I could do this, or maybe if I get another unit to pass on, I could video the procedure, though soldering the tiny caps isn't something that I have been doing at all, and this was the first time in doing it in my line of work, I think am ok at soldering, but if someone more skilled watched me they would probably call me a rookie! ha!
I have a lot of confidence that your soldering capabilities are far superior to mine haha. I don't think I have soldered anything since middle school.
Fiddly is a word that genuinely frightens me, I'm not good with fiddly things haha.
I'd definitely be interested if you were to offer that possibility of upgrading the capsules & it would be brill to see some more tests with those capsules built in too.
I always wanted to try something like that with my Sony A10, but I suspect that would be even more fiddly than the zoom because the mics rotate to 3 different positions. Maybe that wouldn't cause any issues though, I'm not sure. I just couldn't forgive myself if I broke any of my recorders.
I think these capsules are the perfect compliment to the zoom, particularly with 32bit float etc. They missed a trick there by not upgrading the microphones or preamps at all. I'd have never expected F series quality, but they could have met in the middle somewhere and upgraded the mic capsules and preamps slightly. To leave these the same after all these years is incredibly frustrating. @@sr3d-microphones
I saw your test with the two passing trains, creek, and two horses, actually, you helped me make a decision, thank you.
Thanks for your interesting video! I was just thinking about this mod, probably using a PUI AOM 5024, a capsule that I judge a bit better than EM 272, same size and type at the end.
It'll be really useful if you'll post a video for the operations to modify the unit.
Thanks for all!
Very interesting, I just had a quick look at the specs on the capsule you mention, they look basically the same except for a slight increase of sensitivity. It would be great to hear your before and after recordings to compare them. I'm still waiting on two more H1E's to arrive, so I will do a few more comparisons later. Thank you very much for your comment. I'll go check out your channel and probably subscribe to you while I'm there by the sounds of it :O)
I've ordered several PUI AOM 5024's, so I'll be seeing if I can match a few up and try them in me silicone ears to see how they sound!
I have received an order of 25 PUI AOM 5024 and have selected a few for matching purposes and I have to be honest with testing them in my SR3D XLR Pro with existing circuits... I am astonished at their performance, with an almost 20db gain over the Primo EM272Z1's! This would make for an incredible microphone with my binaural microphones that use phantom power, noise levels would be no existent... as you have to lower the gain in post with a 32bit float recorder as they are quite hot, I'll be conducting more tests over the coming weeks and months, so thank you very much for pointing out these babies as I had assumed you couldn't get any better than the primo EM272's for omnidirectional binaural capture.
What this test really shows is how good the Zoom H1e would be if they fitted better capsules. People get hung up on the pre amp quality when really it's the self noise of the mics which is the limiting issue. I wonder if you could track down some low noise cardioid capsules and have another go? P.S. Still loving my SR3D!
Already on the case! ha! Though I don't think they are cardioid, but I've 25 of them coming as their sensitivity are a little better than the EM272's, 10db down on max SPL but about the same S/N so it wasn't too expensive to get these, and they are much cheaper than the EM272's, though I have over 1000 in stock of Primo's so should last a little while, it will be fun checking them out when they arrive anyway, another commenter has said that they thought that another manufacturer were thinking about another capsule, so I'll try to keep my SR3D ears to the ground!
@@sr3d-microphones I'd be surprised if the original zoom H1 capsules weren't cardioid, XY stereo is usually done with cardioid mics. You might find another stream of business retrofitting people's H1s with better capsules! :)
@@WiP999Indeed, I'm looking into it as I type.
Uni-directional are indeed the originals, and em272's are omni, so I've already ordered another primo, but uni-directional, they are *much* more expensive than the EM272's BTW.
A very interesting mod! Just curious and went to look at the website of the primo mic capsules. I’m wondering if the EM282 will work for the mod?
@@wenjun_n EDIT!! Read you message wrong, I thought you were talking EM272.. not EM282!
Yes cardioid for this mod if you want a wide stereo field, I am actively looking for another uni-directional capsule to see if it can still be improved keeping the stereo field, I have a few different types in mind and no doubt the 282 will eventually land here!
Good job! Is the process of replacing the built-in microphone the same as welding other lavalier microphones? Did you encounter any difficulties during this time?
@@钟锐松 I would advise not to do the modification as you would loose the stereo effect due to non unidirectional capsules, simply plugging in EM272 stereo pair as an external microphone would be the very best thing to do here.
@@sr3d-microphones But if it's a pair of single-pointing mics such as the EM164 it will restore the soundstage, right? Also, do I need to dismantle the whole unit to replace the original mic?
@@钟锐松 Yes, they should do it as they are cardioid, and you would have to dismantle the unit, it's quite simple, but be aware of small plastic parts. I wouldn't know if this would be advantageous to do, to be honest.
I think I uploaded me dismantling it in another zoom H1E video on my channel somewhere.
@@sr3d-microphones Thanks for the reply.It's been very helpful.
Wouldn’t the em282 cardioid be a good replacement for the internal ones? I know they’re a bit expensive but it would be kinda nice to have higher quality internal mics.
I tried a pair of EM264Y and the results were kinda disappointing as the levels were about the same, iv'e still yet to make some recordings to compare them, but I've been quite busy of late, but it's on the cards to do so, I'm not that excited to test other mics due to my findings of the EM264Y as I imagined that they would have been much better than the zoom originals, but it looks like zoom did a good job in selecting the ones that they did, I can't see why there's noise on their capsules though, but compared with the EM272's it's quite spectacular, though the stereo field is lost, if I get time this summer I may just try some experiments, but without opening up the H1E, I'll just plug them into the external socket first, to see if it's worthwhile doing a swap out. Thanks for making the suggestion!
at 1.53 you said "unit... had a capacitor going across...", was there a capacitor soldered?
yes, quite tiny, like a half grain of rice. But I don't think it's worth doing the mod as you lose the major stereo field with the EM272's
But you have replaced the two directional microphones with omni capsules (EM272). So by my understanding, although you have more sensitive mics and less noise you can no longer capture much of a stereo image.
Your understanding is inhibiting you in realising that the stereo field has not been changed at all, until, that is, I plug in the binaural mics.
The original mics are not directional in the 180 degree field of view, and the same applies for the EM272's so nothing has changed except the sensitivity.
You are correct, and my assumption was wrong 😑
I tested both the capsules I removed and compared the capture ‘zone’ they do indeed have a form of directionality compared to the EM272’s, so the mod maybe ok for close up instrument and other close up sounds, but field recording would be better suited with the originals even with their poor noise performance. I’ll keep mine the way it is and do some tests side by side with another H1E when it arrives next week sometime.
@@sr3d-microphones- I believe I read recently that one of the mic manufacturers is soon going to be producing a new quieter cardioid capsule (maybe a new Sonorous Objects S.03?). That would be an interesting replacement for the zoom mics.
I have used the Clippy Mics EM184 cardioid capsule but it is not as quiet as the EM272.
@@middle-aged-herpersThanks for the info, AR3D ears are now on the ground :O) Maybe if you hear anything before I do you could ping me a message when it happens?
Is it easy to open the H1e? I opened the old H1 without difficulties, in the past.
As I said in a previous comment, it'll be useful a your video on this mod.
Thanks!
Quite easy, the casing ‘snaps’ in place so it’s a little tricky parting using finger nails. Gentle persuasion from the bottom of the unit will part the two halves apart, the mic end is a little stubborn. The USB part has two screws that do not need to be undone, there’s a screw inside that has a blade of metal film that goes to each mic housing base for grounding that has to be removed, which is simple to remove and replace. I have a selection of star/philips screw drivers but don’t know which is which that are quite tiny that fit the body screws perfectly, these are defo needed!
Really thanks for the useful info, I'll try surely to exchange the capsules with the Omni I previously said.
Another info: are the original Uni capsules of 8 mm or 10 mm in diameter?
@@calandrella57 10mm same as the primo em272
@@sr3d-microphones Thanks a lot!