Per my Christian husband, "If I had to ask someone I didn't know to watch our daughter, I'd pick a drag queen over a priest. With the drag queen, I would only be worried about washing off make-up. With a priest I'd be worried about trauma."
@@rudra62family priests coaches teachers and politicians are the most likely to ahem you know the crime. Fun fact politicians and priests are rather similar in terms of how many people hold those jobs and also similar in how many of these crimes they commit. I find that funny
The apology alone is *NOT* enough and the sum of money offered in compensation won't be enough either to assuage the cruelty and abuse these people suffered. *The churches MUST be made to bear THE ENTIRE COST of ALL COMPENSATION ON THEIR OWN, WITH NO HELP FROM THE GOVERNMENT!*
Yes. Religion is a multi-billion dollar industry, it can afford to pay all Reperations and if Religion goes bankrupt as a result even better. Victims compensated first. Anything left will go towards secular social support and community alternatives for the growing needy.
I hope your country does better than mine (Canada) in holding the churches accountable. We did get something but it was not enough. What happened here can't be repaid in money. All we can hope for is the eventual downfall of religion, may it happen in my lifetime.
@@AdmiralBison I believe several USA catholic dioceses declared bankruptcy to avoid paying. Think I've heard some protestant churches have done have done the same. I say don't care well just take everything tough.
I saw inside a few of these 'youth homes' in the 90s. Abused kids put in with abusers, everyone shuttled off to do 'help' which 'carers' took cash for, kids hit for not being able to sleep the first night after seeing their family pulled apart, no supervision or care just adults whos faces I still block out appearing meant bad things :/
@@z.s.7992no it's social workers who a) have the power to do the job and b) some shit for brains can't say I'm religious and c ) proper oversight. Any card carrying religious arseholes are not allowed to be inspectors.
It doesn't matter what country, what flavor of organized religion you choose, these organizations, schools and churches are rampant with abuse. What the hell anyone still attends is beyond me.
It’s easier to believe a lie than to change your mind based on “new” information, and once you’ve made the decision to believe the lie over the truth, well, the good old sunk cost fallacy kicks in and…. Humans are rarely rational. We make our decisions based on emotion then come up with the logical explanation later. Stupid, sure, but when you’ve been thoroughly brainwashed by said religion, you don’t really have a choice.
It's not just the church, its everyday religious folk too. I went to school in New Zealand. In 1986 I was 12. Our teacher was a quote unquote 'very religious man', his initials P.A.K so you don't get sued. He endlessly brought religion into our classroom, although we were not a religious school. He used to try every opportunity to touch, caress, and cuddle us in class at his desk he could contrive, and also in some very public moments during swimming class. He tried to encourage my friend T.M. to travel with him to another city to 'watch a cricket match'. He was eventually mobbed and chased from the school one morning by a playground full of students after physically attacking a girl. The school told us not to mention it to our parents, and when it got out they downplayed it and hushed it up. No apology, no compensation.
There are stories in my family about being abused by the Catholic church. My generation is the first in at least four generations where we weren't directly physically abused. I, myself, was indirectly abused due to the fact I was born out of wedlock, they just allowed the other children to do the work for them and not do anything about it. But both my grandmother and my great-grandmother are legends and heroes in our family because they both snapped and beat the abusers. My great-grandmother, when she learned one of her daughters was beaten for no reason, made her husband drive her to the school (which was run by nuns), dragged the nun who beat her daughter up out of the school, threw her on the ground and then gave her the thrashing of her life. That nun never hurt any of her children again. My grandmother was witness to another nun beating one of her sisters far more than what was appropriate (corporal punishment was a thing back then) and then threw herself onto the nun and beat the nun up in defence and retaliation of her sister. When her parents were called into the school to discuss what had happened, they said the nun deserved it and my grandmother was not getting punished for doing this. That was the end of it. None of the other nuns tried to harm my grandmother or her siblings again. This unfortunately was not the end of it though. When her children started going to school, one of the teachers took an instant dislike towards her second son and started beating him and all his younger siblings that were school-aged. My grandmother, infuriated, went to the school, took the strap that was hanging in his classroom, and proceeded to beat the teacher with it. Then she told him that if he touched her children without cause again, what she did would be minor in comparison. He never touched them again. It seems to me and my experience, abusers are like bullies and once you confront them they will back down. Still, with them being in positions of power over those younger and more vulnerable than them, this shouldn't happen at all. At least New Zealand is doing something about it and acknowledging it, which is a good first step.
I don't know how you get all these great stories as quickly as you do, but I've come to depend upon you as my primary source for staying current. Thank you SO much, Hement!
I know who David Barton is because of Hement. About 2 months ago a coworker said that I should listen to Wallbuilders at work. I was able to give pushback immediately.
Having a very high opinion of New Zealand and New Zealanders I was shocked by this report. Then I saw who was at the root of the problem, OK, makes perfect sense now. Religion: It’s not the solution, it is the problem.
If this happened in any other organization it would’ve been closed down. But religion always gets a pass. The fact that religions haven’t done anything to stop the abuse in over 50 years shows how dangerous and harmful religion is to people.
nope, almost any organisation is subject to the same issues. in Trump's own words "they just let you do it" any organisation that has people with power over others will have these problems. trump not only didn't get shut down he got the nuclear codes. do i need to elaborate on the term casting couch? the entertainment industry is no more innocent than the church. politics lets gaetes veto trafficking laws
@@getahanddown It’s scary isn’t it. A lot of times I wonder how I ended up in this world full of people living in delusional lives. As a kid I loved reading Bizzarro comic books. I never realized that world is reality on this planet. Frightening.
@@MrOsmodeus Not all organizations could get away with what religion does. If sexual attacks and rape happened constantly at a major corporation they would be put out of business. Heads would roll. The Catholic Church hides and protects rapists. They know they are protecting pedophiles. That church is a damned mob. It’s ran by psychopaths.
The thing about that saying about "one bad apple" is that the point of it is that if you don't deal with the bad apple quickly and get it out of the barrel, you will quickly have many bad apples. The bad apple defense only works if that individual is dealt with quickly and appropriately. So examples like the Catholic church shielding abusers, is not just an example of bad apples, but spoiled barrels. And ironically, an example of people not taking the advice from the saying about bad apples.
Reminds me of something Jess mentioned in a previous podcast episode about “the whole orchard being rotten”. So in that case you have a blight on the ground the orchard cut and was planted in and you occasionally get trees that are growing in spots that blight hasn’t reached yet. And the people running the orchard only eat those apples and make sure their “favorites” only get the good ones, while the rest of us find the rotten ones and get ignored when it’s pointed out.
This should make every country repeat NZ's investigation. The November date is likely to allow time to include details on any reparations and the plans for the key recommendations.
Their sorry means nothing. It's only to make religion feel like their doing something. I wouldn't accept the apology. They should be ashamed of themselves!
They should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the Law ⚖. 😡 Happened to me, abuse was horrific, but, it was how they treated me like I was to blame IF it had happened. I was forced to apologize to my abuser for lying 🤥. 🤥, my imagination, hysterical, I was 8. My family was ashamed I'd come forward, & though my siblings were also SA'D, they remained silent 🤫...
I love it when some groups of people try to make claims about abuse. The stats don't agree with them. CSA, trafficking, and other abuses are predominantly committed by: 1. family members of the victim, 2. Religious leaders known by the victim's family, 3. Trusted friends of the vicim's family, 4. Public trusted leaders supported by the family (politicians, doctors, police, teachers, etc), and 5. The last category is other which comprises mostly random people the family comes into contact with on a regular basis and just doesn't know. The whole idea of the far right that abusers are coming to get your kids, don't realize the call is coming from inside their own house. By area/country, abusers are 75% to 90% known before the abuse by the victim or the victim's family. In many communities, the abuser is so well-trusted, that people don't believe the victim most of the time.
That’s as maybe. It doesn’t negate the facts of wide scale religious and authoritative abuse. Also it demonstrates that abuse is rampant in society. 🍀🍀🍀
Oh, I'm not negating that religious and authoritative abuse. The fact is these are the most common forms of abuse, sexual abuse, CSA, and sex trafficking. I.e. in my part of the world, we get told to watch out, illegal foreigners are coming to commit crimes, kidnap your kids, abuse your family, etc. But in most cases, it's not illegals you need to worry about. In the case of Family abuse, it is commonly an authoritative figure (Father/Uncle or other male elder; or less often a female elder), who the family looks up to as a leader of the family. It is also fairly common that if it's not family abuse, the abuser is introduced to the victim by an authoritative figure in the family. I.e. a church leader that dad likes and brings his family to listen to; someone revered by the family's authoritative leader. A lot of these authoritative and/or religious abusers are shielded because they have built networks of trust to gain access to those they want to abuse. These networks don't want to condemn the abusers, because it shows they were gullible and duped by the abuser, or worst case, they were committed to/approving of the abuse that occurred. 😳
Wearing "provocative" clothing is NEVER an excuse for sexual assault. I don't care if the person is completely naked. Don't 👏 sexually 👏 abuse 👏 people 👏 period!! There is no excuse under the sun for it.
Hear, hear. Well said. The energy being put into teaching girls/women how to not tempt men could and should be spent teaching boys/men not to act on every impulse, to control themselves and be responsible.
@@gekkeroph9276 remember a "not the nine o'clock news" back in the day, early 80's. Doing the typical interview of those, and it seems these days. Come on, you asked for it didn't you. You're a pretty little thing, did you have your top low. Pulls back it's a car!
@@coffeezombie6813 Ever notice how often men that try so hard to project as strong and independant also don't have the willpower to stop themselves SA'ing a girl if they see some skin.
Apologizing does help because it makes it more likely for victims to be believed by those who told them they were lying, exaggerating or making a mountain out of a molehill. It’s a starting point though, not anywhere near enough. Not even close to enough, but it is important.
As someone effected - the politician Luxon is a POS who will probably try and spin a 'that was bad.... and it was the other political partys fault!' The report however is reputable people digging deep and is honestly a bit of a weight off just to go yeah, I was a kid and it felt like the whole thing was sh!t and no oversight at all. People just collecting $ per kid per night. So to go man, my memory matches up with specifics in the report is something.
If that happens with ANY other Big Business, they rightfully get SHUT DOWN and Persecuted!!!! But that happens in religion and... they get to keep going. Basically, nothing happens. Way too protected!!! That needs to END!!
Honestly, children who are abused in faith-based institutions should report the abuse to doctors, cops, friends, and counselors outside the church. Otherwise, it'll be covered up or ignored
On the subject of disfellowshipping they (jw governing body) announced that they are dropping the term in favor of "removed from the congregation" and you can talk to disfellowshiped people now but basically only say "Hi". The culture is not gonna change though, it's just a rebranding of buzz words for prying eyes from the outside because of the courts in Norway
Mate :( I was in 'care' in a few places and it was life changing - I'll say that. Kids being put in the environments I saw - designed to fail the people it was supposed to protect and from what other kids talked about - I didn't see the half of it.
Finally. Have you ever heard of the Catholic abuse in Australia? That went on for years and years. I'm sure NZ isn't much different. No country is different.
As a Deconstructed former Evangelical Christian and observer of New Age Spirituality, I'm waiting for Buddhist and Yoga communities to arrive at a similar realization that their own spiritual heirarchies are just as abusive and damaging to students, instead of dismissing each disgraced guru as a one-time mistake.
My dad SA'd my three sisters. Mom and all the kids were jehovahs witnesses, dad was non religious. My sisters told mom, mom told the elders in the church. Jw org dont want this to get out because its a bad light shining on the organization and mom just mindlessly follow church wishes. Dad was never questioned, they didnt report to police, mom stayed with dad and everything went on as if nothing was wrong. One sister committed self deletion at 26, my other sister became a drug addict my oldest sister had mental issues. This is what happens when theres no adults around you willing to step up and protect the children
Having dealt with bipolar and depression, I didn't want to go anywhere near a church, having been constantly told I was demonically possessed, when I just needed proper medication. Churches and pastors still make my heart rates spike.
My mother was born in New Zealand in 1952. She worked for the Child Youth and Family (as it was then) section of the Department of Social Welfare for over 20 years. I believe all of the reporting that has come out, but I also believe that my mother and her colleagues were overwhelmingly good people doing a tough job as well as they could. I still have faith in the good intentions of most of my countrymen, and am willing to wait until November to see what the Government actually offers. ( It will be less than half a million dollars each to more than 2 percent of our entire population)
When they say that the JWs have "rigid disclosure processes", they mean that unless there are two reports of abuse leveled at one person, or an abuser confesses their abusive behaviour, they don't do anything. They also don't report that behaviour to the police, they demand that the abused recount what happened to them to the "elders" (who are a bunch of old men), women are (as noted) held in lower regard which means that abuse reports from women count half as much, any actual punishment for abusers is typically not much more than a slap on the wrist... The list of barriers they put in place to make uncovering and uprooting abuse is insane, and it's done in the name of "Biblical rules" and "God's law". All this came out in 2017 during the Australian Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to CSA, which uncovered reports of abuse *held by the JWs* going back 60 years. 7 years later, and to learn that they've done basically nothing is not surprising.
We do have huge tax loopholes etc for churches, even ones running massive companies. I don't think churches need tax free status at all, even if they claim to be charitable. If it's all getting turned over not being horded they won't have much of a tax bill anyway right :)
@@getahanddown I fully agree .a lot of churches are rich and so are some 'church leaders' Those ppl/places don't need tax benefits ...heck even if they pay like anyone else, most of them will still be rich!
In New Zealand you can't sue...the Government could offer compensation...but not likely....It is usually only an 'official apology' which means...sh*t...
This might be the first time this has ever happened. The "don't ask/don't tell" rule is extremely powerful, and doesn't even need to be spoken in most countries. How many states and provinces and villages and towns will now look at New Zealand and say "wow, they're just like us"? It has to start somewhere, this admission that 1,300 years of priestly celibacy has had consequences.
Same deal in Canada but now the church is being made to pay. Every country where the catholic church has a presence should be investigating. They will find the same results. So glad I was smart enough at 11 years of age to renounce the church. Atrocities were evident even to a child in the 60s😢
FRANCE: Le 5 octobre 2021, Jean-Marc Sauvé remet le rapport de sa commission sur les abus sexuels dans l'Église en France entre 1950 et 2020. Le rapport révèle l'ampleur de la pédocriminalité dans l'Église : il estime à 216 000 le nombre de victimes de violences sexuelles. On October 5, 2021, Jean-Marc Sauvé submits the report of his commission on sexual abuse in the Church in France between 1950 and 2020. The report reveals the extent of child criminality in the Church: he estimates at 216,000 the number of victims of sexual violence.
I think all religious organizations should lose their special status and tax exemptions. They can be encouraged to convert to charities and non profits both of which have a great deal of government reporting requirements and oversight.
Do the math. 200000 × 508000 = $101,600,000,000 USD worth of financial devastation to the citizens of New Zealand. 101.6 Billion US dollars. That's affecting National productivity, quality of life, satisfaction with livability of your country, and YOUR community.
The full text of the proverb would be "One bad apple spoils the bunch." With that in mind it's meaningless to say "Well it's just one bad apple," since churches/police forces tend to keep the bad apples with the bunch ensuring that the bunch gets spoiled.
It's not abuse if it was God's will. I'm sure all of the "abuse" was fully warranted for those Godless street urchins who didn't appreciate everything the churches offered them in return for their unquestioning obedience. "No dark sarcasm in the classroom... ...Hey! Teacher! Leave them kids alone!" -Another Brick in the Wall by Pink Floyd
The Catholic church needs to pay for what they did throughout colonial times to nowadays and other faith based organizations are are at fault for their actions! Nobody knows how much money they really have so a assessment needs to be done before they take the money and run !
Why is this such a surprise? I know in Canada it is happening now and a little higher percentage!!! If people admitted or accepted the real amount you’d be really blown away.
4:15 If a nation's leaders' apology ever meant anything, it was Australia's, a few years ago, when he presented a redress scheme, where religious organization have been invited to throw money in the pot voluntarily to help the victims of their abuse NOW, not after lengthy legal battles. The ones who refuse would see their tax breaks removed. The Vatican refused to participate, but allowed its dioceses to participate. I heard they did, but if I ruled that country, I would have stipulate that if any of these dioceses ever send any money to the Vatican, they would lose their taxation benefits. How can I find out what happened since?
What about cameras? Body cams sure gave transparency for cops. IDK, I know it's more a privacy thing for the patients, but dude! The alternatives! Humans suck. Especially when they're not being watched.
Starting to want a Jehovah's Witness to knock on my door so I can talk to them about how abusive their church really is. Imagine flipping the churchy door knockers' script like that
Saw a documentary about this years ago. Yep, the scary Christians give believers who just find peace, sobriety, inclusion with our beliefs a bad name and these bastards really piss me off! My mother emotionally abused me. I was never put in an institution. Prob should have been. Nonetheless, I became whole, finally.....partly due to my faith!!! Right on sir, like it that I found you channel!!!❤❤❤❤
G'day, you say it's interesting a government would tell a church to get out or comply. Thankfully Australia and New Zealand not taken over by religion as much as america is. New Zealand like Australia has a small population, So we tend to give a shit about each other and what our government lets happen. As we grow saidly that might change though, already evangelical groups sticking their noses in. That and even though we need immigration, Australia like a lot of western countries very concerned about not letting any other religions come here, So we get a lot of european christians that hold, let's say religion a lot closer than even some of the average religious people we have here. So all of a sudden Australia seems to have its own little Maga cult growing.
It looks to me like the state was far more culpable than the church. Why isn't this sticking to the state? Oh, they're the good guys because they call people names?
Yup the same government that wants to go through with charter schools giving public money to people like the destiny church and then remove public oversight.
I may be incorrect, but I think no major religion has any 'commandments' (or it's equivalent in other religions) that specifically sets out to protect children from abuse for fear of devine retribution? The same applies with rape. And "Thou shalt not kill" only comes in at No. 5/6 for christians. Not to contradict any god, but as an atheist trying to stop killing, child abuse and rape, would be My first choices as 'commandments'.
@@Horus-Lupercal well what happened is disgusting however at least your government seem to be trying to do something. Wish I could say the same for most of the other world governments
for anyone interested in learning about Jehovah's Witnesses and how their organisation works, Owen Morgan (as Hemant mentioned) and Lloyd Evans are great resources here on UA-cam (especially Lloyd, as he focuses solely on the JW organisation).
Per my Christian husband, "If I had to ask someone I didn't know to watch our daughter, I'd pick a drag queen over a priest. With the drag queen, I would only be worried about washing off make-up. With a priest I'd be worried about trauma."
The most dangerous place for a child, regarding SA, is in a church. It's even exceeded homes and people in parental roles.
@@rudra62family priests coaches teachers and politicians are the most likely to ahem you know the crime.
Fun fact politicians and priests are rather similar in terms of how many people hold those jobs and also similar in how many of these crimes they commit.
I find that funny
@@cryochick9044positions of leadership and power over people. makes sense!
It is still happening. We just don't hear about it. The church should be kept away from vulnerable kids and adults
Are you kidding? We hear about it every day.
@@WillowEtain Not the majority of it.
Not for years we didn't. @@WillowEtain
@barbaraeslick558 Most of what i heard is long past. Very little, if anything about cases happening now
@@LiamODonovan-l6e it may not be reported in the media, but if a church is functioning, it’s happening.
The apology alone is *NOT* enough and the sum of money offered in compensation won't be enough either to assuage the cruelty and abuse these people suffered. *The churches MUST be made to bear THE ENTIRE COST of ALL COMPENSATION ON THEIR OWN, WITH NO HELP FROM THE GOVERNMENT!*
Abolish the Catholic Church!
Yes.
Religion is a multi-billion dollar industry, it can afford to pay all Reperations and if Religion goes bankrupt as a result even better.
Victims compensated first.
Anything left will go towards secular social support and community alternatives for the growing needy.
I hope your country does better than mine (Canada) in holding the churches accountable. We did get something but it was not enough. What happened here can't be repaid in money. All we can hope for is the eventual downfall of religion, may it happen in my lifetime.
@@AdmiralBison I believe several USA catholic dioceses declared bankruptcy to avoid paying. Think I've heard some protestant churches have done have done the same. I say don't care well just take everything tough.
I saw inside a few of these 'youth homes' in the 90s.
Abused kids put in with abusers, everyone shuttled off to do 'help' which 'carers' took cash for, kids hit for not being able to sleep the first night after seeing their family pulled apart, no supervision or care just adults whos faces I still block out appearing meant bad things :/
There is no better way to show hate than through Christian love.
I feel unfortunately, as an American, that it is just as bad here.
Yes indeed. Our only well funded public safety is police. Not social workers
I can guarantee it.
It will be worse, because New Zealand is far less religious than the US.
@@z.s.7992no it's social workers who a) have the power to do the job and b) some shit for brains can't say I'm religious and c ) proper oversight. Any card carrying religious arseholes are not allowed to be inspectors.
Quite.
Combining special rights with access to children is a deadly combination
It doesn't matter what country, what flavor of organized religion you choose, these organizations, schools and churches are rampant with abuse. What the hell anyone still attends is beyond me.
It’s easier to believe a lie than to change your mind based on “new” information, and once you’ve made the decision to believe the lie over the truth, well, the good old sunk cost fallacy kicks in and…. Humans are rarely rational. We make our decisions based on emotion then come up with the logical explanation later. Stupid, sure, but when you’ve been thoroughly brainwashed by said religion, you don’t really have a choice.
You know when you see someone say "I was abused and I turned out fine" they're the ones sending their kids to religious schools.
@@HarryDirtay Yeah these people have just fully bought into this and drank the kool aid
More ‘religious’ individuals harming others in the name of religion.
Thanks for keeping us informed
It's not just the church, its everyday religious folk too. I went to school in New Zealand. In 1986 I was 12. Our teacher was a quote unquote 'very religious man', his initials P.A.K so you don't get sued. He endlessly brought religion into our classroom, although we were not a religious school. He used to try every opportunity to touch, caress, and cuddle us in class at his desk he could contrive, and also in some very public moments during swimming class. He tried to encourage my friend T.M. to travel with him to another city to 'watch a cricket match'. He was eventually mobbed and chased from the school one morning by a playground full of students after physically attacking a girl. The school told us not to mention it to our parents, and when it got out they downplayed it and hushed it up. No apology, no compensation.
They should start by not allowing any religious organization to ever be involved with people. Especially children.
As a NZ atheist.....Oh shock horror😱 (sarc)
There are stories in my family about being abused by the Catholic church. My generation is the first in at least four generations where we weren't directly physically abused. I, myself, was indirectly abused due to the fact I was born out of wedlock, they just allowed the other children to do the work for them and not do anything about it. But both my grandmother and my great-grandmother are legends and heroes in our family because they both snapped and beat the abusers.
My great-grandmother, when she learned one of her daughters was beaten for no reason, made her husband drive her to the school (which was run by nuns), dragged the nun who beat her daughter up out of the school, threw her on the ground and then gave her the thrashing of her life. That nun never hurt any of her children again.
My grandmother was witness to another nun beating one of her sisters far more than what was appropriate (corporal punishment was a thing back then) and then threw herself onto the nun and beat the nun up in defence and retaliation of her sister. When her parents were called into the school to discuss what had happened, they said the nun deserved it and my grandmother was not getting punished for doing this. That was the end of it. None of the other nuns tried to harm my grandmother or her siblings again.
This unfortunately was not the end of it though. When her children started going to school, one of the teachers took an instant dislike towards her second son and started beating him and all his younger siblings that were school-aged. My grandmother, infuriated, went to the school, took the strap that was hanging in his classroom, and proceeded to beat the teacher with it. Then she told him that if he touched her children without cause again, what she did would be minor in comparison. He never touched them again.
It seems to me and my experience, abusers are like bullies and once you confront them they will back down. Still, with them being in positions of power over those younger and more vulnerable than them, this shouldn't happen at all. At least New Zealand is doing something about it and acknowledging it, which is a good first step.
I don't know how you get all these great stories as quickly as you do, but I've come to depend upon you as my primary source for staying current. Thank you SO much, Hement!
I know who David Barton is because of Hement. About 2 months ago a coworker said that I should listen to Wallbuilders at work. I was able to give pushback immediately.
The Mehta-analysis is always thoughtful, insightful and important.
Cheers.
@@foppishdilletaunt9911 The Mehta-analysis! I love it!
Having a very high opinion of New Zealand and New Zealanders I was shocked by this report. Then I saw who was at the root of the problem, OK, makes perfect sense now. Religion: It’s not the solution, it is the problem.
If this happened in any other organization it would’ve been closed down. But religion always gets a pass. The fact that religions haven’t done anything to stop the abuse in over 50 years shows how dangerous and harmful religion is to people.
59 years? Try 2000+ years. 3000 years. Religions suck. All of them.
nope, almost any organisation is subject to the same issues. in Trump's own words "they just let you do it" any organisation that has people with power over others will have these problems. trump not only didn't get shut down he got the nuclear codes.
do i need to elaborate on the term casting couch? the entertainment industry is no more innocent than the church. politics lets gaetes veto trafficking laws
Apparently hearing voices in your head is a sign someone is really good with kids?!
@@getahanddown It’s scary isn’t it. A lot of times I wonder how I ended up in this world full of people living in delusional lives. As a kid I loved reading Bizzarro comic books. I never realized that world is reality on this planet. Frightening.
@@MrOsmodeus Not all organizations could get away with what religion does. If sexual attacks and rape happened constantly at a major corporation they would be put out of business. Heads would roll. The Catholic Church hides and protects rapists. They know they are protecting pedophiles. That church is a damned mob. It’s ran by psychopaths.
The thing about that saying about "one bad apple" is that the point of it is that if you don't deal with the bad apple quickly and get it out of the barrel, you will quickly have many bad apples.
The bad apple defense only works if that individual is dealt with quickly and appropriately.
So examples like the Catholic church shielding abusers, is not just an example of bad apples, but spoiled barrels. And ironically, an example of people not taking the advice from the saying about bad apples.
Reminds me of something Jess mentioned in a previous podcast episode about “the whole orchard being rotten”. So in that case you have a blight on the ground the orchard cut and was planted in and you occasionally get trees that are growing in spots that blight hasn’t reached yet. And the people running the orchard only eat those apples and make sure their “favorites” only get the good ones, while the rest of us find the rotten ones and get ignored when it’s pointed out.
An apology?!? No tangible accountability?
Freedom of religion is the freedom to abuse.
This should make every country repeat NZ's investigation.
The November date is likely to allow time to include details on any reparations and the plans for the key recommendations.
Their sorry means nothing. It's only to make religion feel like their doing something. I wouldn't accept the apology. They should be ashamed of themselves!
They should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the Law ⚖. 😡 Happened to me, abuse was horrific, but, it was how they treated me like I was to blame IF it had happened. I was forced to apologize to my abuser for lying 🤥. 🤥, my imagination, hysterical, I was 8. My family was ashamed I'd come forward, & though my siblings were also SA'D, they remained silent 🤫...
I love it when some groups of people try to make claims about abuse. The stats don't agree with them. CSA, trafficking, and other abuses are predominantly committed by:
1. family members of the victim,
2. Religious leaders known by the victim's family,
3. Trusted friends of the vicim's family,
4. Public trusted leaders supported by the family (politicians, doctors, police, teachers, etc), and
5. The last category is other which comprises mostly random people the family comes into contact with on a regular basis and just doesn't know.
The whole idea of the far right that abusers are coming to get your kids, don't realize the call is coming from inside their own house. By area/country, abusers are 75% to 90% known before the abuse by the victim or the victim's family. In many communities, the abuser is so well-trusted, that people don't believe the victim most of the time.
That’s as maybe. It doesn’t negate the facts of wide scale religious and authoritative abuse. Also it demonstrates that abuse is rampant in society. 🍀🍀🍀
Oh, I'm not negating that religious and authoritative abuse. The fact is these are the most common forms of abuse, sexual abuse, CSA, and sex trafficking. I.e. in my part of the world, we get told to watch out, illegal foreigners are coming to commit crimes, kidnap your kids, abuse your family, etc. But in most cases, it's not illegals you need to worry about.
In the case of Family abuse, it is commonly an authoritative figure (Father/Uncle or other male elder; or less often a female elder), who the family looks up to as a leader of the family.
It is also fairly common that if it's not family abuse, the abuser is introduced to the victim by an authoritative figure in the family. I.e. a church leader that dad likes and brings his family to listen to; someone revered by the family's authoritative leader.
A lot of these authoritative and/or religious abusers are shielded because they have built networks of trust to gain access to those they want to abuse. These networks don't want to condemn the abusers, because it shows they were gullible and duped by the abuser, or worst case, they were committed to/approving of the abuse that occurred. 😳
Wearing "provocative" clothing is NEVER an excuse for sexual assault. I don't care if the person is completely naked. Don't 👏 sexually 👏 abuse 👏 people 👏 period!! There is no excuse under the sun for it.
Hear, hear. Well said. The energy being put into teaching girls/women how to not tempt men could and should be spent teaching boys/men not to act on every impulse, to control themselves and be responsible.
@@gekkeroph9276 remember a "not the nine o'clock news" back in the day, early 80's. Doing the typical interview of those, and it seems these days. Come on, you asked for it didn't you. You're a pretty little thing, did you have your top low. Pulls back it's a car!
@@coffeezombie6813 Ever notice how often men that try so hard to project as strong and independant also don't have the willpower to stop themselves SA'ing a girl if they see some skin.
Also, by saying that, they're basically acknowledging that Jehovah's Witnesses get turned on by five-year-olds
Apologizing does help because it makes it more likely for victims to be believed by those who told them they were lying, exaggerating or making a mountain out of a molehill. It’s a starting point though, not anywhere near enough. Not even close to enough, but it is important.
Varg Vikernes might be a racist pos, but I'm starting to warm up to his attitude towards the church 😮
As someone effected - the politician Luxon is a POS who will probably try and spin a 'that was bad.... and it was the other political partys fault!'
The report however is reputable people digging deep and is honestly a bit of a weight off just to go yeah, I was a kid and it felt like the whole thing was sh!t and no oversight at all. People just collecting $ per kid per night.
So to go man, my memory matches up with specifics in the report is something.
If that happens with ANY other Big Business, they rightfully get SHUT DOWN and Persecuted!!!!
But that happens in religion and... they get to keep going. Basically, nothing happens. Way too protected!!!
That needs to END!!
US government would never pay people reparations for gross misconduct or abuse.
They view abuse as a cost of doing business
States would be in charge of these kinds of programs.
New Zealand won’t either. NZ Prime Minister is from National party which is a NZ Conservative Party.
@@goarmysleepinthemud.what stupidity possessed you to vote conservative?
And he is a God-fearing man of the first order.
@@goarmysleepinthemud.
@@z.s.7992 I’d just add “Unless the courts made them” to the US government wouldn’t pay line.
Honestly, children who are abused in faith-based institutions should report the abuse to doctors, cops, friends, and counselors outside the church. Otherwise, it'll be covered up or ignored
Unfortunally, most of them are either isolated or taught to fear outsiders.
That's the problem, they're taught not to. Kept isolated. They often don't realize that this is an OPTION.
Why doesn't this channel have more subscribers? Thank you for your reporting, Mr. Mehta.
My mom is going through this now. There are thousands of victims in the church going back 40 years
This happens all too often
On the subject of disfellowshipping they (jw governing body) announced that they are dropping the term in favor of "removed from the congregation" and you can talk to disfellowshiped people now but basically only say "Hi". The culture is not gonna change though, it's just a rebranding of buzz words for prying eyes from the outside because of the courts in Norway
Keep exposing these ☪UL✝
The Elders should,be prosecuted as accessories after the fact.
They're just plain accessories if not co-conspirators. It happens before the fact as well.
I was at the royal commission hearings as a security officer. I will be haunted by the horrific stories I heard. It almost broke me.
Mate :(
I was in 'care' in a few places and it was life changing - I'll say that.
Kids being put in the environments I saw - designed to fail the people it was supposed to protect and from what other kids talked about - I didn't see the half of it.
new Zealand did take seriously the allegations and searched for the truth
Finally. Have you ever heard of the Catholic abuse in Australia? That went on for years and years. I'm sure NZ isn't much different. No country is different.
Typical and despicable.
200K in a population of 5 million. That's 1 in 25 people. Roughly 1 kid in every classroom. That is horrific.
As a Deconstructed former Evangelical Christian and observer of New Age Spirituality, I'm waiting for Buddhist and Yoga communities to arrive at a similar realization that their own spiritual heirarchies are just as abusive and damaging to students, instead of dismissing each disgraced guru as a one-time mistake.
My dad SA'd my three sisters. Mom and all the kids were jehovahs witnesses, dad was non religious. My sisters told mom, mom told the elders in the church. Jw org dont want this to get out because its a bad light shining on the organization and mom just mindlessly follow church wishes. Dad was never questioned, they didnt report to police, mom stayed with dad and everything went on as if nothing was wrong. One sister committed self deletion at 26, my other sister became a drug addict my oldest sister had mental issues. This is what happens when theres no adults around you willing to step up and protect the children
Having dealt with bipolar and depression, I didn't want to go anywhere near a church, having been constantly told I was demonically possessed, when I just needed proper medication. Churches and pastors still make my heart rates spike.
Yes. It's not mental illness, it's demonic possession!😵💫🤬
WTAF.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
The usual suspects.....
The opportunity costs are insane. I know it from experience.
My mother was born in New Zealand in 1952. She worked for the Child Youth and Family (as it was then) section of the Department of Social Welfare for over 20 years. I believe all of the reporting that has come out, but I also believe that my mother and her colleagues were overwhelmingly good people doing a tough job as well as they could. I still have faith in the good intentions of most of my countrymen, and am willing to wait until November to see what the Government actually offers. ( It will be less than half a million dollars each to more than 2 percent of our entire population)
All countries should do enquiries like this!
Separation of Church and state isn't far enough I guess. Now we need separation of Church and people.
I doubt it is different in the USA. Terrifying to have illness in any degree.
Thank you for going thru this stuff to give us the highlights, it is so important that people wake up to this.
When they say that the JWs have "rigid disclosure processes", they mean that unless there are two reports of abuse leveled at one person, or an abuser confesses their abusive behaviour, they don't do anything. They also don't report that behaviour to the police, they demand that the abused recount what happened to them to the "elders" (who are a bunch of old men), women are (as noted) held in lower regard which means that abuse reports from women count half as much, any actual punishment for abusers is typically not much more than a slap on the wrist... The list of barriers they put in place to make uncovering and uprooting abuse is insane, and it's done in the name of "Biblical rules" and "God's law".
All this came out in 2017 during the Australian Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to CSA, which uncovered reports of abuse *held by the JWs* going back 60 years. 7 years later, and to learn that they've done basically nothing is not surprising.
42% of people abused by the church tracks. My brother was a victim of the church here in the US.
But they're Saved, therefore anything and everything they do is forgiven.
That’s such a shocking indoctrination which allows abhorrent vile behaviour 🍀🍀🍀
I don't know if NZ has a 'religion doesnt pay taxes' rule but how about stripping that from anyone who doesn't want to cooperate?
We do have huge tax loopholes etc for churches, even ones running massive companies.
I don't think churches need tax free status at all, even if they claim to be charitable.
If it's all getting turned over not being horded they won't have much of a tax bill anyway right :)
@@getahanddown I fully agree .a lot of churches are rich and so are some 'church leaders'
Those ppl/places don't need tax benefits ...heck even if they pay like anyone else, most of them will still be rich!
Appalling as the abuse was in religious settings, the report also covered state-based care which was no better.
New Zealand was also one of the worst countries involved in the 'Spotlight' investigation from Boston.
Cancel their licenses, sue them, show their pictures to the public, and send the leaders to prison.
In New Zealand you can't sue...the Government could offer compensation...but not likely....It is usually only an 'official apology' which means...sh*t...
This might be the first time this has ever happened. The "don't ask/don't tell" rule is extremely powerful,
and doesn't even need to be spoken in most countries. How many states and provinces and villages
and towns will now look at New Zealand and say "wow, they're just like us"? It has to start somewhere,
this admission that 1,300 years of priestly celibacy has had consequences.
The Catholic Church is world wide so who knows how far those goes
Same deal in Canada but now the church is being made to pay. Every country where the catholic church has a presence should be investigating. They will find the same results. So glad I was smart enough at 11 years of age to renounce the church. Atrocities were evident even to a child in the 60s😢
FRANCE:
Le 5 octobre 2021, Jean-Marc Sauvé remet le rapport de sa commission sur les abus sexuels dans l'Église en France entre 1950 et 2020. Le rapport révèle l'ampleur de la pédocriminalité dans l'Église : il estime à 216 000 le nombre de victimes de violences sexuelles.
On October 5, 2021, Jean-Marc Sauvé submits the report of his commission on sexual abuse in the Church in France between 1950 and 2020. The report reveals the extent of child criminality in the Church: he estimates at 216,000 the number of victims of sexual violence.
New Zealand really is based!
I think all religious organizations should lose their special status and tax exemptions. They can be encouraged to convert to charities and non profits both of which have a great deal of government reporting requirements and oversight.
Do the math. 200000 × 508000 = $101,600,000,000 USD worth of financial devastation to the citizens of New Zealand.
101.6 Billion US dollars. That's affecting National productivity, quality of life, satisfaction with livability of your country, and YOUR community.
The full text of the proverb would be "One bad apple spoils the bunch." With that in mind it's meaningless to say "Well it's just one bad apple," since churches/police forces tend to keep the bad apples with the bunch ensuring that the bunch gets spoiled.
That’s religious freedom!
Freedom to abuse!
Thanks very much for your work.
It's not abuse if it was God's will. I'm sure all of the "abuse" was fully warranted for those Godless street urchins who didn't appreciate everything the churches offered them in return for their unquestioning obedience.
"No dark sarcasm in the classroom...
...Hey! Teacher! Leave them kids alone!" -Another Brick in the Wall by Pink Floyd
We used to call it the "witness protection program".
This is disturbing on so many levels😡‼️
I cant keep watching this, because, nothing will happen to these people, and pretty soon, all these horrible things, will be forgotten
Why the hell are state and religion being combined.
Get religion out of everything!
The Catholic church needs to pay for what they did throughout colonial times to nowadays and other faith based organizations are are at fault for their actions! Nobody knows how much money they really have so a assessment needs to be done before they take the money and run !
Why is this such a surprise? I know in Canada it is happening now and a little higher percentage!!! If people admitted or accepted the real amount you’d be really blown away.
4:15 If a nation's leaders' apology ever meant anything, it was Australia's, a few years ago, when he presented a redress scheme, where religious organization have been invited to throw money in the pot voluntarily to help the victims of their abuse NOW, not after lengthy legal battles. The ones who refuse would see their tax breaks removed. The Vatican refused to participate, but allowed its dioceses to participate. I heard they did, but if I ruled that country, I would have stipulate that if any of these dioceses ever send any money to the Vatican, they would lose their taxation benefits. How can I find out what happened since?
When will the prosecutions of the guilty begin?
How about shutting down these religious groups?
By this point simply allowing faith based organizations to care for children is complicit to those children's abuse.
We know what happens
Thanks!
What about cameras? Body cams sure gave transparency for cops. IDK, I know it's more a privacy thing for the patients, but dude! The alternatives! Humans suck. Especially when they're not being watched.
I suspect it's November so they can include any reparations and ways they will incorporate the key recommendations.
they will read and study the report, one page per day and publish their findings at the end of the study period
Oh my gods that's a horror story. The monsters involved are... Well, monsters.
And did any abuser get jailed
Starting to want a Jehovah's Witness to knock on my door so I can talk to them about how abusive their church really is. Imagine flipping the churchy door knockers' script like that
Saw a documentary about this years ago. Yep, the scary Christians give believers who just find peace, sobriety, inclusion with our beliefs a bad name and these bastards really piss me off! My mother emotionally abused me. I was never put in an institution. Prob should have been. Nonetheless, I became whole, finally.....partly due to my faith!!! Right on sir, like it that I found you channel!!!❤❤❤❤
I saw this report, especially the Jehovah's Witnesses part in it. It was... enlightening, especially following the court cases related to this.
You gotta wonder what it looks like in other countries. I'm sure it's just as bad if not worse.
This is the only time I'm embarrassed for my country (Canada).
@@coffeezombie6813 It is a national shame what happened here.
G'day, you say it's interesting a government would tell a church to get out or comply. Thankfully Australia and New Zealand not taken over by religion as much as america is.
New Zealand like Australia has a small population, So we tend to give a shit about each other and what our government lets happen. As we grow saidly that might change though, already evangelical groups sticking their noses in.
That and even though we need immigration, Australia like a lot of western countries very concerned about not letting any other religions come here, So we get a lot of european christians that hold, let's say religion a lot closer than even some of the average religious people we have here. So all of a sudden Australia seems to have its own little Maga cult growing.
Sad.
all they do is shuffle the priests around, it must cost them a fortune in plane tickets.
It looks to me like the state was far more culpable than the church. Why isn't this sticking to the state?
Oh, they're the good guys because they call people names?
Mostly under the party he represents
Nah, neither main party would have gone near it until recent times.
Yup the same government that wants to go through with charter schools giving public money to people like the destiny church and then remove public oversight.
The catholic church still exists for what reason?
Money.
They've gotten their hands in so many pies for so long, it's hard to get rid of them.
Isn't that the whole point of religion?
I may be incorrect, but I think no major religion has any 'commandments' (or it's equivalent in other religions) that specifically sets out to protect children from abuse for fear of devine retribution? The same applies with rape. And "Thou shalt not kill" only comes in at No. 5/6 for christians.
Not to contradict any god, but as an atheist trying to stop killing, child abuse and rape, would be My first choices as 'commandments'.
But they asked God for forgiveness so the victims can just fuck right off
That's how love works yeah
It is happening all around the world. God is not watching and they know it! There's no hate like christian love!
Not JW Elders outting themselves by agreeing a 12 year olds attire is attractive and allowing her to wear said attire.
Yay, New Zealand mentioned!... Ah, sh*t.
@@Horus-Lupercal well what happened is disgusting however at least your government seem to be trying to do something. Wish I could say the same for most of the other world governments
Jesus sucks, save yourself and run now!
Tax churches. Make them accountable like you do other businesses. This is not Jesus' ministry.
No surprise.
for anyone interested in learning about Jehovah's Witnesses and how their organisation works, Owen Morgan (as Hemant mentioned) and Lloyd Evans are great resources here on UA-cam (especially Lloyd, as he focuses solely on the JW organisation).
Ah, NZ. You are better than this.
If Epstien Island was a country.
😊